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AMD, Nvidia Reportedly Tripped Up On Process Shrinks

Posted by Soulskill on from the stupid-physics-getting-in-the-way dept.

itwbennett writes: In the fierce battle between CPU and GPU vendors, it's not just about speeds and feeds but also about process shrinks. Both Nvidia and AMD have had their move to 16nm and 20nm designs, respectively, hampered by the limited capacity of both nodes at manufacturer TSMC, according to the enthusiast site WCCFTech.com. While AMD's CPUs are produced by GlobalFoundaries, its GPUs are made at TSMC, as are Nvidia's chips. The problem is that TSMC only has so much capacity and Apple and Samsung have sucked up all that capacity. The only other manufacturer with 14nm capacity is Intel and there's no way Intel will sell them some capacity.

10 of 230 comments (clear)

  1. I got an idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Build your own fab

    1. Re:I got an idea by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well that too but there's a long feedback loop from profits to production capacity, building a new process facility typically takes 3-4 years. AMD held the lead from mid 1999 (launch of Athlon) to early 2006 (launch of Intel Core). First they had to make some money on that achievement, this still being the dotcom days the stock flew through the roof until the dotcom bubble burst in early 2000. Everything tech-related came crashing down, you could buy AMD stock in 2002 for less than in 1999 despite their excellent products at the time. AMD probably had a helluva time finding funding to expand.

      So if you don't get serious ramp-up capital until 2002, well you're not going to get it online until 2005-2006 and if you look at the stock charts then January 2006 is when they peaked. All looked bright, AMD still had the best product and finally the production capacity to knock Intel out of the driver's seat. Then Intel Core gave them a real kick to the nuts. They just couldn't sell as much as they had planned for, the financial burden from the fabs was dragging the whole company down. That's the trouble with betting too much on growth, when you fail you fail hard. But then everyone had been shouting build more, take down Intel. Hindsight is easy.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  2. bean counters ruin another company by banbeans · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who didn't see not having their own fabs was going to bite them in the rear?
    Only a bunch of bean counters would not have seen this coming.

    1. Re:bean counters ruin another company by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pretty much this.

      The people who own that fabrication capacity are selling it to the highest bidder. Or the one who invested the money to build it.

      If you don't control your own production, don't be surprised when you have to wait in line.

      But don't act all shocked that the 3rd party who actually builds your products can't guarantee your stuff gets built.

      This gets a big "duh".

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:bean counters ruin another company by knightghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I really don't see that. Manufacturing in the USA typically runs Lean and often Cell based with process changes made in minutes. The people also tend to have a wider range of skills and experience. The states with unions pretty much don't do any more manufacturing.

      Outsourcing only works from 2 fundamentals - ignoring IP (theft) and currency manipulation.

    3. Re:bean counters ruin another company by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Outsourcing only works from 2 fundamentals - ignoring IP (theft) and currency manipulation.

      You left out government regulation, taxes, and pollution controls.

  3. Goodbye AMD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your shortsighted business practice of selling off your foundry has just killed you. It's gonna suck having Intel as the monopoly for the X86 CPU market.

    1. Re:Goodbye AMD by arbiter1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      o please, intel has superior cpu, straight out. AMD hasn't had a decent cpu since athlon xp/64. Blaming intel for AMD failure to innovate their cpu is straight up retarded. Intel has the market share they do cause they have made cpu's people want, not slow power hungry piles of silicon.

  4. Re:Actually...about Intel... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it wouldn't surprise me if someone at Intel Legal has written up an "AMD/Foundry Contract Opinion.doc" and squirreled it away somewhere.

    Or they can take advantage of the situation to acquire nVidia's market position in GPU computing and patent arsenal (to annihilate the trolls - probably not gunning for AMD). Intel wants a viable AMD, to keep DoJ off its back. nVidia is just a market competitor with a manufacturing problem.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
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  5. Former Semiconductor Furnace Engineer Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you want the biggest bang for your buck, a single 12" Vertical Semiconductor furnace shipped and installed - $900K - $1m USD (low end guess). I've been to Taiwan into another fab, UMC, and they have hundreds of these furnaces. But with wafers that big, you need an automated transfer system (because you can't trust people to carry $10,000 worth of substrate) Wafer boats, typically holding 13 wafers, are $2000-$3000 each. the substrate itself is incredibly expensive. And not to mention the electrical bills...running one of these furnaces requires heating a 12" Diameter tube to up to 1200C....usually 480 volts into them. With the Silicon Carbide process tubes needing to be replaced every 3-4 months, and the heating elements getting an average 1 year lifespan, that's a LOT of money.

    I don't blame them for not wanting to open their own fabs!