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Republican Bill Aims To Thwart the FCC's Leaning Towards Title II

SpzToid writes U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration. Republican lawmakers hope to counter the Federal Communications Commission's vote on Feb. 26 for rules that are expected to follow the legal path endorsed by President Barack Obama, which Internet service providers (ISPs) and Republicans say would unnecessarily burden the industry with regulation. Net neutrality activists, now with Obama's backing, have advocated for regulation of ISPs under a section of communications law known as Title II, which would treat them more like public utilities. The White House on Thursday said legislation was not necessary to settle so-called "net neutrality" rules because the Federal Communications Commission had the authority to write them.

182 comments

  1. You can't trust either group of 1%er mentalities. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    "which Internet service providers (ISPs) and Republicans say would unnecessarily burden the industry with regulation." - Except it IS NECESSARY, DUMMIES.

  2. Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Funny

    Clearly this means freedom for all users right?

    1. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah.

      The polarized politics in this country has gotten so out of hand that the electorate shoots themselves in the foot over ideology.

      Last year's election was a complete joke in my state (GA). Every Republican ran with this platform: A vote for a Democrat is a vote for Obama's policies.

      If you ask a typical Obama hater exactly what policies they don't like and why, you inevitably got the media talking points. The only time I saw a reasonable dislike for one of Obama's policies was actually here - the person actually had a unique and quite thought out reason that I even agreed with; and I voted for Obama.

      But that was the only time. I have a very low opinion of the electorate. Everyone bases their opinions on what they see and hear in the media with absolutely no critical thinking or skepticism. A media that over simplifies things to fit complex issues into 2 minute segments while making it understandable to your typical 8th grader.

    2. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2, Informative

      But that was the only time. I have a very low opinion of the electorate.

      Yea, no shit. Last week in Virginia, the voters re-elected a convicted pedophile, running from jail. But don't worry - he's on work-release so he can head down to the General Assembly to cast his votes... :/

      I guess it's okay since he's a Democrat.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    3. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess it's okay since he's a Democrat.

      Would explain why it's the first I've heard of this and your source is a UK newspaper. But you better believe I heard about Staten Island electing a representative who at the time hadn't been convicted of anything!

    4. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read your own link? He has not been convicted of "being a pedophile" (being a pedophile is not a crime), his conviction was a plea bargain for a misdemeanor: "contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor." It's unfortunate that something like that is illegal at all, but a misdemeanor seems about right given that she was seventeen, she insists that nothing happened, and if it did it was clearly consensual.

    5. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

      Did you read your own link? He has not been convicted of "being a pedophile" (being a pedophile is not a crime), his conviction was a plea bargain for a misdemeanor: "contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor." It's unfortunate that something like that is illegal at all, but a misdemeanor seems about right given that she was seventeen, she insists that nothing happened, and if it did it was clearly consensual.

      The fucker is 47 years old. 47!!! What version of "consensual" was it? The original charges were much worse, but after the parents realized their daughter was PREGNANT (like, how did THAT happen?), they decided they didn't want her involved in a protracted legal battle, so they allowed the plea bargain.

      Or, like I said, you're okay with it because he was a Democrat.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    6. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, "pedophile" refers to someone with sexual interest in prepubescent children, not 17 year olds.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    7. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by KDiPietro · · Score: 1

      Now we're calling people who sleep with seventeen year olds pedophiles? You do realize that in the majority of states in the US this is completely legal, right?

    8. Re: Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, it is a matter of not finding your description of the situation accurate.

      Pedophilia is one thing. Sex with a minor is another. Or can you not grasp nuance when it involves a Democrat? Is that the problem? If it were a Republican would you change your tune?

    9. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Actually (and I speak as a Republican here) he was convicted of sex with a 17-year-old girl, an act which in most other states is legal. Not coincidentally, Virginia is the one state that band radar detectors.

    10. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Bans radar detectors!"

    11. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about may Gaydar? Is that legal in Virginia?

    12. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by meglon · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously so fucking stupid you think the guy slept with a 17yold BECAUSE he's a democrat? The problem is that because of tribal identity, and complete fucking ignorance, the republican for the last three plus decades have been pulling this country farther and farther to the radical fascist right. This is simply another attempt to rig the system against the people, and let corporations leech more money out of the population. Then we have stupid fucking idiots like you who keep trying to shift attention away from what's going on so YOUR "tribe" never has to take responsibility for anything they do.

      This isn't about some totally disconnected fucking idiocy you want to weave around to distract people... it's about peoples basic rights to information thats not censored and fabricated by the few with enough resources to control them. Pull your head out of your ass for once in your life.

      But, if you want to talk about pedophiles and sexual criminals in office, fine, here yah go:

      http://www.democraticundergrou...

      http://ringoffireradio.com/201...

      http://www.911review.org/Alex/...

      http://articles.latimes.com/20...

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    13. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they decided they didn't want her involved in a protracted legal battle, so they allowed the plea bargain.

      This is not how prosecution works. For a criminal charge, it's not up to the parents or the victim. The prosecutor makes the decision whether or not to go ahead with the trial, based on what they believe they can prove in court.

      Also, he's 57.

    14. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... What version of "consensual" was it? ...

      Are you saying 17 year-old girls don't know what what they are doing, or that 47 year-old men can brainwash whoever they please into sexual slavery? Either way, you must be very scared of both age groups.

      By the way, contrary to television, last time I checked only 5 US states had the age of consent at 18 years-old. The most common age was 16 years-old.

    15. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... it's okay since he's a Democrat. ...

      Maybe a convicted ephebophile was the best candidate. This "fuck the poor" philosophy spouted by Republicans seems to be upsetting the voters.

    16. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by GezusK · · Score: 1

      Nice try, but he was an Independent, who defeated a Democrat and Republican. Might want to try reading the article you linked.

    17. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He quite clearly said he thinks YOU are stupid because you don't care that this Democrat slept with a 17 year old.

    18. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Dude don't be a lying Republican, right there in the fucking story you linked to "He won re-election Tuesday as an independent" in bold yet, yeah I sure you fucking missed it by accident. Just like the daily mail did itself when they left the browser tab description a "Virginia Democrat Joseph Morrison". which is owned by the Yattendon Group run by the Iliffe Family, staunch pseudo conservatives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B... (so even worse royalists). Should he be prosecuted, of course, especially as it also an abuse of labour, why was he still able to run, well that is a broken US political system, so fix it. Why did people vote for him when he has emphatically proven he can not be trusted, what can the rest of the world say but Americans pay far to much attention to PR=B$ commercials and have become as ignorant as the commercials they obey. The rest of the democratic world looks on stunned at the public behaviour of American politicians, from hanging with Arabs like Saudi Arabia that are attacking them to partying with paedophiles and royalty to publicly supporting other countries like Israel ahead of their own country. Thanks to American exceptionalism, America is the double speak capital of the world.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    19. Re: Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A federal Congressional representative is way above a state legislator.

      Many people couldn't name their own state legislators, let alone care about others.

      That said, it was reported. Including in the New York Times. But apparently the voters in that district are fine with it. They reelected him. Maybe you just didn't pay attention to the news reports.

    20. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Speaking as a Virginia resident, and someone who generally votes left-leaning, you're correct - though he's still a dirtbag.

      The reason (as I understand) that he got reelected is that it was a special election for a state legislative office. This is the sort of race that doesn't get much attention even when it's a general election. Incumbency, and party identification, carry so much more weight than actual issues, because most people never hear about the issues. Heck, I consider myself reasonably involved and aware, and even I can't remember who my state senator is offhand (it's not this guy).

      To bring this full circle, this is part of the exact problem. These races have tons of power, generally fly below the radar of most voters, and also are ridiculously easy to influence with outside money. Notice how so many state legislatures have been pushing agendas doing things like blocking municipalities from offering ISP service, all at the behest of the major incumbent providers (usually who sparked the municipal offering in the first place by refusing to upgrade service in the area to something remotely modern).

    21. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      He was formerly a Democrat. They kicked him out after the scandal broke (as well they should). He ran as an independent in the special election, and won, because voter turnout in minor state special elections is ridiculously low, and he had two opponents splitting the rest of the vote.

      The bottom line is though, you can't blame this on party affiliation any more than you can any other scandal, because the sort of people that are drawn to political power tend to be far more likely to be narcissistic assholes and sociopaths than the average person. This is true regardless of party affiliation.

      Incidentally, these exactly are the sorts of people (State Legislators) that the Republicans in Congress think ought to be setting the rules on broadband. Who thinks that's a good idea? Oh, right, the incumbent ISP monopoly/duopolies.

    22. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by meglon · · Score: 1

      Well, he quite clearly has his political head up his ass... as well as being a fucking idiot for making assumptions about people. His fucked in the head type thinking is why this country has so many problems, and his attempts to distract from the problems by making stupid fucking comments and stupid fucking assumptions about people he doesn't know aren't part of the solution, they're part of the problem.

      The politician in question, if he was 47 years old, probably shouldn't be hanging around with 17 year olds in the first place; but saying that people must agree with his actions BECAUSE he's a democrat means that the poster agrees with Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo raping a 5 year old boy BECAUSE Stumbo and the poster are both republicans.... it's twisted, stupid as fuck thinking.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    23. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Stumbo and the poster are both republicans.... it's twisted, stupid as fuck thinking.

      Shows how head-stuck-up-his-ass partisan fucktard you are - because I am not a Republican. But in your twisted end-justifies-the-means worldview any shitty fucked-in-the-head piece of shit that will sell his own mother is fine and dandy with you - as long as he talks the talk - rah rah my team.

      Useful idiot if I've even seen one. All that hate ain't gonna get you a better world, asshole.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    24. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      they decided they didn't want her involved in a protracted legal battle, so they allowed the plea bargain.

      This is not how prosecution works. For a criminal charge, it's not up to the parents or the victim. The prosecutor makes the decision whether or not to go ahead with the trial, based on what they believe they can prove in court.

      Also, he's 57.

      Bullshit. If your case is based primarily on the testimony of one witness - you can try to talk them into cooperating, but if they are against it you do what you want. Any prosecutor that doesn't is an idiot.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    25. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      "you do what THEY want"

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    26. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Sorry, fucker, if I didn't give you the whole history of this. He was a Democrat, resigned while he was under indictment and facing felony charges, then he got this miracle-out-of-the-blue plea deal that let him plead to a misdemeanor instead. At that point, they had already called for a special election to fill his vacated seat, and it was too late to file as a Democrat because they had already put a candidate on the ballot. So he got on as an "Independent" instead. He's a far-left Democrat, but worse, he's a piece of shit out for only himself. This is just the latest story of someone he fucked - literally this time, figuratively most of the time.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    27. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by meglon · · Score: 1

      Ah, so your problem is you're just a stupid fucking prick. Got it. Let me guess... you're a "libertarian," one of those too embarrassed to admit they voted for Bush... twice.

      Points moot, and obviously over your head. You made stupid fucking assumptions about people, and tried to distract from the problem being discussed. You ARE part of the problem. on top of being a childish fucking idiot.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    28. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Sure. But it doesn't work there, either.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    29. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A radar detector has no legitimate use. Its only purpose is to help you get away with breaking the law. I wouldn't call for a ban, but I'm certainly not bothered by a ban.

    30. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of narcissists who would sleep with a 17 year old female who wanted to have sex with them. About 75% of men and probably 10% of women.

      Expecially if she was 17 and 255 days or something like that.

      In today's world with no privacy, I can't be sure if he was an indiscreet idiot.

      The standards we live by today are very different than the standards in place only 20 years ago.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    31. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Sorry, fucker, if I didn't give you the whole history of this.

      He's wrong because you don't know the meaning of the word "pedophile" and went the full Fox News at the same time? Is anyone who calls Reagan a Republican or Warren a Democrat also a fucker? I don't think so.

      You engaged in 10-pounds-of-bullshit-in-a-five-pound-sack willful dumbfuckery and are now whining like a bitch because you got caught.

    32. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by jmac_the_man · · Score: 1

      He won re-election Tuesday as an independent

      You sound like you're not an American, so let me explain to you how this works.

      In America, you can't be "kicked out" of a political party.

      The reason to register for a political party so you can vote in that party's primary. For some offices (not this guy's office) they have what's called a primary election where the people from each party pick the best member of their party to run in the real election. So you have members of the Democrat party picking the best Democrat and members of the Republican party picking the best Republican, and then they run against each other in the general election. (If you're not registered with a party, you usually can't vote in the primary but can vote in the general election.)

      One office that has a primary process is the Presidency. In 2008, the two best Democrats (as judged by the party) were Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Obama won the primary and ran for (and won) the Presidency. Hillary Clinton didn't stop being a Democrat. In fact, she'll probably win their primaries in 2016.

      For other offices, like the election this guy won, the parties each just pick a guy. The Democrat party picked someone other than this guy and told all the Democrats to vote for the candidate they picked. This guy ran anyway, and through his own campaigning, won anyway. He didn't stop being a Democrat just because his party picked somebody else to run in this election.

    33. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the legal definition and your definition seem to differ. Here in CO a former school coach is currently serving a life term in prison for sleeping with a minor. She was 17 and a student at the school he taught at (note, she wasn't one of his students, just went to the school he taught at). The guy was an idiot, I think the punishment is overly severe (but they have a provision when sleeping with a minor when in a position of authority) and legally speaking, yes, he's a pedophile. And to make this even more fun, I seem to recall he was 24 at the time.

    34. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      But that was the only time. I have a very low opinion of the electorate.

      Yea, no shit. Last week in Virginia, the voters re-elected a convicted pedophile, running from jail. But don't worry - he's on work-release so he can head down to the General Assembly to cast his votes... :/

      I guess it's okay since he's a Democrat.

      If you cant find a better source than the daily fail then hand in your internet licence and collect you cheque at the door.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    35. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem here is, you're using a dictionary definition. Try your argument with the legal definition, because in this particular discussion, that's the one that matters.

    36. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Radar detectors help keep down people's insurance premiums.

    37. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Speaking as a Virginia resident, and someone who generally votes left-leaning"

      Not defending Republicans here, but I am curious. How can anyone possibly support left-leaning, and let's call it what it is, socialism?

      Socialism is a proven failed system that is responsible for millions and millions of dead bodies, sucks the money out of the hands of people who actually produce things and directs it towards big and ever growing big governent, graft and corruption, and then simply buys the votes of the gullible and unintelligent people who love their state benefits.

      Socialism is nothing but a power grab by the state at the expense of the individual. Remember, socialism is for the people, not the socialists. To see this all you need do is see how congress and their staffers are all exempt from Obamacare. How can you possibly support such a thing? If this crappy law is so great then these men who write and vote for this law should *have* to be made to live under it. But they do not. This is detestible, beyond belief in fact.

      How can anyone possibly support such things? That is what I cannot understand.

      Mind you, I am not attacking you personally, I am just curious if you care to expand on it, what your response would be to this query.

    38. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 2

      You're making the mistake of taking a Manichean view. "Left leaning" can include a pretty wide spectrum of things. I state it that way because I'm not a member of the Democratic party, and there are issues and candidates that I don't and would not support them on. I would certainly agree that some sort of Marxist utopia is ridiculous, unrealistic; but at the same time, that doesn't mean we have to take the complete opposite approach. Unfettered and unrestricted capitalism is equally unworkable. I'd much prefer a society where people can compete and get ahead, but where failure isn't accompanied by a threat of starvation, homelessness, or anything similarly bad. I would prefer we do away with the Calvinist notions about work and productivity, and instead encourage people to work and create. I think something like Milton Friedman's idea about Basic Income would be a reasonable starting point.

      As for Obamacare, I think it's a horrible Frankenstein's Monster of a law, that is a massive giveaway to the insurance companies... but that's what you get when one political party cares more about scoring points in the power game than in actually proposing solutions to the problems at hand, or just flat out denies the problems that most people would like addressed. One party legislation is bad, but the answer isn't just handing things over to the other party - that's just as bad, if not worse. I'd much rather see a sensible system put in, but I'm not holding my breath for anything remotely close at this point. Likewise with the ISP market, I'd rather we had reasonable proposals from both sides for solving the problem, because we'd likely get a better overall ending.

      So yes, please, give us proposals for market based solutions! I'd love to hear them. I'd love to hear the Republicans putting forth actual measures to increase broadband ISP competition. That isn't what they've been giving us though - instead they give us steaming turds like the bill TFA describes, where they try and lock in the current anti-competitive situation and bundle it in Orwellian language.

    39. Re:Glad were stopping the evil socialists by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Well, the legal definition and your definition seem to differ.

      No. They don't.

      Here in CO a former school coach is currently serving a life term in prison for sleeping with a minor.

      When he was 24 at the time? And I suppose you have lovely oceanfront property in Kansas for sale, too.

      She was 17

      Which would make it statutory rape, not pedophilia.

  3. I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration.

    That sentence should have read, U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation authored by industry lobbyists, that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration. (additions mine).

    1. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by SpzToid · · Score: 1

      John Thune doesn't have so much telecom money it seems, but the same cannot be said of John Upton, who received a lot from Verizon, Cox, Comcast, The National Assn of Broadcasters, and Time Warner.

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    2. Re: I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like those billions we spent in the first Gulf War and the trillion we've spent on shitty third world governments since 9/11, right?

    3. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 0

      Republicans have long been for making sure the customers get what they pay for.

      If you believe that, you seriously need to turn off Fox Propaganda.

      --
      Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
      Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    4. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republicans have long been for making sure the customers get what they pay for.

      You mean they make sure we get expensive shitty Internet service?

      If the Republicans are so concerned for consumers, then why aren't they making local monopolies illegal? Why are they not going along with the Obama administration with Net Neutrality?

      I don't even have to look at the bill to know that it will favor the ISPs at the expense of the consumer.

      And the Republican's desire to eliminate the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is just outrageous. They are pretty much the only organization that will help the little guy when battling the unethical and illegal tactics of the financial services industry.

      Lawsuits are ineffective or many times not worth it - IF you can actually get a lawyer to represent you.

      The CFPB is one of the best things our government has done in decades.

      And the Republicans are the ones wanting to revert banking regulation back to the it was before 2008. Are they fucking kidding? They want to crash the economy again will Wall Street crooks run away with billions in tax payer money!?

      No sir. The Republicans are doing nothing but helping to line the pockets of the .01%ers at our expense. Oh, don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of Democrats jump on board too.

      Also, they don't listen to us little people. I do not have the money for them to listen.

    5. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by MisterSquid · · Score: 1

      The problem with the FCC taking control of something it has previously refused to control is a steep problem for republicans to overcome on a constitutional basis.

      Why is the FCC regulating an industry that OBVIOUSLY WOULD BENEFIT FROM REGULATION a "problem to overcome"?

      Oh, that's right. it's because the line of argumentation which backs populist conservative/Republican talking points cannot understand that Constitutionality does not prohibit the regulation of public utilities, especially when such regulation is in alignment with even the most hardcore conservative defenders of free market capitalism.

      --
      blog
    6. Re: I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with anything I said?

    7. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I don't watch Fox News or any 24 hours news channel for that matter. I gave up cable TV a little over a decade ago.

      I do however know how to find news online that is not tainted by partisan BS and I am smart enough to discern facts from opinion which I think a lot of people, including you struggle with.

    8. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, that's right. it's because the line of argumentation which backs populist conservative/Republican talking points cannot understand that Constitutionality does not prohibit the regulation of public utilities, especially when such regulation is in alignment with even the most hardcore conservative defenders of free market capitalism.

      Actually, it is unconstitutional to have laws enacted in ways other than the constitution proscribes. Leaving that aside, you have a serious problem here anyways. The constitutionality does require an act of congress to all the sudden include scopes of the economy into the regulation schemes that it previously was not in. Now think about that for a minute.

      Can the US government with absolutely no legislative act making a change but by board or panel constituted under it- constitutionally declare pot illegal, Constitutionally revoke divers licenses for failing or refusing to take drug tests? Can these government boards require everyone to purchase a hand gun or pay a fine if they do not? Can these departments declare computers illegal unless used for work only? Can they do anything they want?

      Of course the answer to that is no, no, NO. Any of those would specifically take an act of congress and unless it is specifically tied into the duties of congress, they would be unconstitutional. It's these unconstitutional laws, these unconstitutional regulations (that supposedly are equal to laws as you will still be fined, jailed, and perhaps have assets and your freedom confiscated if you ignore them) enacted by government entities outside of the constitution that makes complying with the government spying on everyone possible, It's the same that makes smoking pot illegal on a federal level which it still is on the states that "legalized" it. It will only take another administration to undo the executive order banning prosecution under the federal laws.

      Here you are blabbering about die hard conservatives and free market and ignoring the problems of unconstitutional laws and unconstitutional regulation because you actually want them in place when you think you might benefit from the dictatorships of government. What you are failing to see is that those same dictatorship decrees can be used against you when someone else thinks it might benefit them. And you have absolutely no moral ground to stand on when complaining that some government agent is jerking off to your phone sex calls when you are out of town on business. Because you think those conservatives or free market capitalism is the problem and not the unconstitutional laws in place or the unconstitutional regulations. You might not like it, but you support the process that allows it to happen. Pathetic in my opinion.

    9. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hah...my parents use the *exact* same statement. The funny part is, I can hear Fox News in the background when I call. This may be presumptuous, but I have a hard time believing you.

      Have you read articles about this issue, like this one?

      http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...

      If so, and if you still maintain that your position is the right one, can you please provide more specific points in contradiction? If the article above is missing some details, I would be interested in learning those.

    10. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 1

      U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration.

      That sentence should have read, U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation authored by industry lobbyists, that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration. (additions mine).

      Your additions were a given.

    11. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      If the Republicans are so concerned for consumers, then why aren't they making local monopolies illegal? Why are they not going along with the Obama administration with Net Neutrality?

      You mean why do they allow local jurisdictions have explicit access to areas provided they build out into the unprofitable portions of those areas? If some of these areas did not have monopolies, you would only find these services within the most densely populated portions and everyone else would be screwed.

      I don't even have to look at the bill to know that it will favor the ISPs at the expense of the consumer.That's real intelligent. You do not even need to know what you are talking about before you start talking bullshit about it. The rest of your hogwash shows it too. I'm simply amazed as the stupidity of some people.

      They want to crash the economy again will Wall Street crooks run away with billions in tax payer money!?

      Are you a moron? The wall street bail out, as well as the GM bailout is said to have profited the tax payers something like 15 billion dollars. And if you actually check, it was many of the republicans in congress holding the damn bailouts up as well as who limited the TARP amounts in the Dodd Frank act.

      But you already admitted to not needing to know about what you are talking about so it doesn't surprise me one bit at all. Everything is how someone told you it is in your mind right?

    12. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1, Troll

      You can believe whatever you want. I have no reason to lie about something as silly as that. But if you must think I am lying in order to reinforce your predetermined world view, I suggest you should be looking at yourself more than me.

      In order for ars to be correct, it has to presume that the FCC has authority already over the internet. It doesn't which is why it is trying to give itself authority by reclassifying it for it's convenience in the feb vote.

      However, which do you stand to have more harm from- rules put in place by laws which both parties can amend as the normal process of making laws when Harry Reid is not presiding over the senate, or some arbitrary panel that has coerced itself into governing authority over something that is not answerable to congress?

    13. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      The fun part about politics is everyone has a reason to lie about it.

      If you didn't have a reason to lie about it, you'd not have any reason to participate in the conversation anyway.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    14. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Again, if you believe that, you should check your beliefs and positions moreso than mine.

      Nothing I've said is not verifiable by independent sources outside of not having cable. But if you need to believe that is a lie, - well I'm repeating myself again.

    15. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by KDiPietro · · Score: 2

      ... it has to presume that the FCC has authority already over the internet. It doesn't...

      Strange, the FCC doesn't have the ability to place ISPs under Title II? How did Kevin Martin (acting in his capacity as FCC Chair) get the authority to declare ISPs informational services? And given that ISPs now provide the pipes where many of our voice communications now travel, why is it that you don't think this is exactly what Title II (and the FCC) is supposed to regulate?

    16. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by MisterSquid · · Score: 2

      Actually, it is unconstitutional to have laws enacted in ways other than the constitution proscribes.[...].

      Can the US government with absolutely no legislative act making a change but by board or panel constituted under it- constitutionally declare pot illegal.[...]

      Everything you say after the last sentence I quoted is a straw man.

      Reclassifying ISPs under Title II is not a legislative act. On the contrary, it depends on the legislative Act known as Title II.

      Here is a common-language explanation of the legality of using Title II to classify communications company as "common carriers".

      You seem to think that classifying communications companies requires a legislative act when it does not. It simply requires a vote by the FCC and a reclassification of ISPs as common carriers under Title II would have consequences but the enactment of new legislation is not one of them.

      --
      blog
    17. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is unconstitutional to have laws enacted in ways other than the constitution proscribes.

      I don't think that word means what you think it means.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    18. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by KDiPietro · · Score: 1

      You mean why do they allow local jurisdictions have explicit access to areas provided they build out into the unprofitable portions of those areas? If some of these areas did not have monopolies, you would only find these services within the most densely populated portions and everyone else would be screwed.

      Damn, if I didn't know better, it would seem that you are advocating this type of regulation. And if not, can you concede that our government mandating telecommunication being provided to almost every corner of this country which was directly responsible for later economic growth? From where I sit, you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. Have you given any consideration towards going into politics for a living?

    19. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In order for ars to be correct, it has to presume that the FCC has authority already over the internet. It doesn't which is why it is trying to give itself authority by reclassifying it for it's convenience in the feb vote.

      I don't see where you're getting that from. The FCC has the ability to regulate the ISP industry in the US, which supplies our portion of the internet...but not across the entire world. If our interconnects around the world want to prioritize their own traffic, that's fine, but once in the US border the traffic will be handled equally (at least across the public consumer networks).

      If FCC couldn't set this policy in the US, then Verizon, Comcast, etc. would be able to sue the FCC and put a stop to that policy setting. That isn't happening - the lobbyists are in full force working Congress instead trying to redefine the FCC. So that seems like a pretty clear case that the FCC does have this authority.

      The timing of this is suspect - I have no doubt we're looking at political theater - but the FCC seems to be well within its charter.

    20. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.

      Reclassifying ISPs under Title II is not a legislative act. On the contrary, it depends on the legislative Act known as Title II.

      The law never intended reclassification of anything. There is no provision within the law to reclassify anything. There is only provisions of classes in which certain elements reside.

      It is a legislative act because it would take an act of legislation to otherwise bring someone not regulated by the government into new ways of regulation.

      You seem to think that classifying communications companies requires a legislative act when it does not. It simply requires a vote by the FCC and a reclassification of ISPs as common carriers under Title II would have consequences but the enactment of new legislation is not one of them.

      And you would have the US constitution ignored and have government dictators ruling over you. You cannot take rights and freedoms from people, from businesses, without an act of congress which is specifically what reclassification would be.

    21. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Strange, the FCC doesn't have the ability to place ISPs under Title II? How did Kevin Martin (acting in his capacity as FCC Chair) get the authority to declare ISPs informational services?

      It was actually put in the FCC hands by the courts which in ATTv Portland the 9th circuit said Portland could not regulate broadband internet access over cable because the "Communications Act prohibits a franchising authority from doing so". The FCC adopted the rule making process and comments period and then classified it as information services.

      And given that ISPs now provide the pipes where many of our voice communications now travel, why is it that you don't think this is exactly what Title II (and the FCC) is supposed to regulate?

      Where voice communications go to or from or travel is meaningless. They can go anywhere they want. If a car runs through your back yard, it doesn't automatically give some government agency the right to declare your back yard a road. The classification of internet services as an information service has went from being thrown on the FCC by the courts, to appealed and rejected by the courts, to validated by the supreme court.

      To all the sudden say that all this court process (precedent) including the Supreme Court's ruling is BS and doesn't apply because a government agency by executive fiat is going to change the rules of the game without any legislative input is severely troubling as well as unconstitutional. And you will find this will end up as unconstitutional in the US supreme court because if they do change the classification, there will be court challenges out the ass and quite a few of them will include expectations of payment via the 5th amendment just compensation clauses.

    22. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you somehow think that is double speak, you simply have not been paying attention.

      The problem is the net neutrality agenda wants to invalidate these explicit access contracts so anyone can come on and compete with the profitable sections of towns. Cities will be able to build out their own service which will pretty much kill off any competition in the area so those outside the city limits will be stuck with whatever they have now until it degrades to the point it isn't usable.

      No, I'm not against regulation if that is what you are trying to suggest. And yes, I do see where governments mandating access and companies service the unprofitable areas as a condition of servicing the profitable ones has helped the economy quite a bit. But you seem to be missing the boat on everything involved. Have you even bothered looking some of this shit up yourself instead of relying on what someone posts at slashdot? I mean the guy I was replying to thought government regulation was fantastic until it came to government regulating which is the entire reason I posted what you replied to.

    23. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Oh no! He said the same thing again! I can feel my opinion changing!

      Nope. Just repeating what you already said doesn't really work.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    24. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sigh.. There is absolutely nothing in law that allows the FCC to change the classification of anything it regulates and it certainly does not allow it to do so in order to escape a court order.

      The FCC never even had power over the internet outside of encouraging it's adoption until a court case in the late 1990 which was appealed in 2000 thrust it on them. The FCC then classified it as an information service and several appeals later, the US supreme court confirmed the FCC's determination.

      Now, after more than a decade, the FCC loses a battle with comcast in which a court said that the FCC does not have the power to regulate comcast's throttling users, they are inventing a way to circumvent the court rulings and all the precedence behind them including the supreme court ruling, and via executive fiat, change the classification of something in which there is absolutely no provision in law to do.

      The timing of this is suspect - I have no doubt we're looking at political theater - but the FCC seems to be well within its charter.

      The timing of this is suspect and it likely is political theater, but the only reason you think the FCC is within it's rights is because you are ignorant of the facts and seem to take other people's words for it rather than look it up yourself. The FCC already classified the internet when it was thrust upon them. This had survived appeals and the supreme court validated it. Reclassifying it has little to do with net neutrality as many would want you to think, it has to do with the FCC losing a court case and instead of getting congress to step up and fix the problem, they decided to manipulate and contort the law in order to avoid court rulings.

    25. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Republicans have long been for making sure the customers get what they pay for.

      I'll grant you that. But they have also long been for making sure there are no impediments to exploiting monopolies - natural and otherwise - to gouge the shit out of customers. Which kind of makes your point moot.

      > The problem with the FCC taking control of something it has previously refused to control is a steep problem for republicans to overcome on a constitutional basis.

      What are you talking about? ISPs were regulated under Title II until ~2005 when the Supreme Court said the FCC had the freedom to choose between Title II and Title I. Look it up NCTA v Brand X.

    26. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by KDiPietro · · Score: 2

      If you somehow think that is double speak, you simply have not been paying attention.

      The problem is the net neutrality agenda wants to invalidate these explicit access contracts so anyone can come on and compete with the profitable sections of towns.

      Indeed they do. And as someone who lives in that section of town, I would really like to have an option overpriced crappy cable and dialup 2.0 (DSL). And you know what? That isn't going to happen with the way things are setup now, is it?

      Cities will be able to build out their own service which will pretty much kill off any competition in the area so those outside the city limits will be stuck with whatever they have now until it degrades to the point it isn't usable.

      I think you've got that backwards in many cities. What I see is the Fios being rolled out in the wealthy neighborhoods, typically rich suburban ones, while the inner cities are screwed.

      But even if you were correct, why the heck would anyone want a monopoly system?

      No, I'm not against regulation if that is what you are trying to suggest. And yes, I do see where governments mandating access and companies service the unprofitable areas as a condition of servicing the profitable ones has helped the economy quite a bit.

      Where do you get this? Companies being mandated to serve low income neighborhoods? Do you see Verizon rolling out Fios in your low income neighborhoods? No? Me either.

      In fact, with the exception of Google deploying FTTH in St Louis, do you see any low income neighborhoods with state of the art connectivity?

      No, you don't and neither do I.

      But you seem to be missing the boat on everything involved. Have you even bothered looking some of this shit up yourself instead of relying on what someone posts at slashdot?

      Let's see, began a broadband only ISP back in 1999, co-founded an industry, non-profit trade group in 2004, acted as an industry spokesperson in the MuniWireless space for a couple of years - so, you thinking that I only rely on SlashDot comments is pretty funny.

      Where exactly do you get your misinformation? Apparently, I need to dumb myself down.

      I mean the guy I was replying to thought government regulation was fantastic until it came to government regulating which is the entire reason I posted what you replied to.

      Has it occurred to you that government regulation built what was at one time considered to be the gold standard in telecommunications worldwide?

      And now look at where we are, we glorify asking if you can hear me now.

      Well, can you hear me?

    27. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration.

      That sentence should have read, U.S. congressional Republicans on Friday proposed legislation authored by industry lobbyists, that would set "net neutrality" rules for broadband providers, aiming to head off tougher regulations backed by the Obama administration. (additions mine).

      As opposed to a Title II complete government takeover, where this exact same inndustry you shit brix over now deals with Contgress directly, as their customer (to whom they whine and wine and donate), now cutting you out completely, until it tuens into the water department.

      No, I am glad Congress is asserting itself so, sor one brief moment, they consider ancient legislation before it is applied to a massive new arena by certain power-hungry factions, unelected.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    28. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by KDiPietro · · Score: 2

      It was actually put in the FCC hands by the courts which in ATTv Portland the 9th circuit said Portland could not regulate broadband internet access over cable because the "Communications Act prohibits a franchising authority from doing so". The FCC adopted the rule making process and comments period and then classified it as information services.

      So, what you just admitted is that the FCC does have jurisdiction in this matter. Thank you.

      Now if you'd like to make the case that Chairman Wheeler needs to go to the NPRM process, I don't know if you've been under a rock for the last year or so but the FCC has received record breaking amounts of comments on this subject.

      Where voice communications go to or from or travel is meaningless. They can go anywhere they want.

      Really? So in cases of emergencies, say a Katrina or a Sandy, we don't need no stinking regulations?

      You could possibly make the case that internet connectivity isn't crucial but voice communications are used to call police, fire and for medical help - in other words, critical infrastructure.

      If a car runs through your back yard, it doesn't automatically give some government agency the right to declare your back yard a road.

      Whoa there buddy, you've gone off the track and aren't really making sense on that one.

      The classification of internet services as an information service has went from being thrown on the FCC by the courts, to appealed and rejected by the courts, to validated by the supreme court.

      That explicitly means that the FCC also has the power to reverse that decision.

      To all the sudden say that all this court process (precedent) including the Supreme Court's ruling is BS and doesn't apply because a government agency by executive fiat is going to change the rules of the game without any legislative input is severely troubling as well as unconstitutional

      Bullshit. The SCOTUS ruled that the FCC does have that authority and you just admitted that.

      And you will find this will end up as unconstitutional in the US supreme court because if they do change the classification, there will be court challenges out the ass and quite a few of them will include expectations of payment via the 5th amendment just compensation clauses.

      I would agree that Title II isn't exactly tailored for the job, it's a holdover from the past. And to be quite frank with you, I would have loved to see Congress step up to the plate and do something for the American people for a change - but that's not what's happening here. Since Congress isn't going to do it, the FCC should impose Title II and then fix what doesn't work, even if that means having the courts argue over what works and doesn't. What we can see here is that Congress isn't fixing the problem, they are making it a lot worse.

      Instead, we're handing control over one of our most critical pieces of infrastructure to monopolies who survive by using the public right of way as well as spectrum owned by the American people. I maintain that if any American wants access to that right of way, they have every bit as much right to do so as any large company. Further, if the voters in any municipality vote to roll out their own network, no one should be able to take that right away form them - unless you want to make a case that the local people shouldn't have that right of self-determination. Personally, I'd love to hear you make that argument.

    29. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

      Somehow I don't think you know that the FCC HAD this authority for the longest time, and they themselves are the ones that gave it up, and they can easily get it back again by reclassifying. I don't think you have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. I don't think you know the history here. I think you just like to circle jerk about how unconstitutional everything is and how blah blah the president is bad.

      The FCC was created, with this authority, by a vote of congress. This is nothing new.

    30. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by whistlingtony · · Score: 2

      " absolutely nothing in law that allows the FCC to change the classification of anything it regulates"

      Great! Then we already HAVE title II regulation! It was the FCC itself that reclassified broadband providers back in the day. Thanks to the great legal opinion of some !@#$ on the internet, they never HAD that authority, so we don't need to reclassify, because THEY NEVER COULD HAVE RECLASSIFIED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

      I don't think you know the history of what's going on here. I don't think you know what you're talking about at all.

    31. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republicans only care about Corproations, and don't give a shit about customers. Republicans only care about Billionaires.

    32. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sigh.. Who told you those lies?

      The FCC ignored the internet or more precisely broad band internet until the court made them classify it as an outcome of the Portland case. The FCC argued until that time that the internet was an information service residing on a regulated network just as a channel line up would have been. The court case in which Portland Oregon's franchise board attempted to hold up the sale of a cable provider unless they opened up the internet portion to others lost in court with the final decision being that the FCC had jurisdiction not the franchise board. The FCC then classified cable internet which has since become known as broadband internet as an information service subject to title one. A consortium of cable providers sued and it went back and fourth in the courts with the Supreme Court of the United States siding with the FCC. The only time it was reclassified or classified other than as an information service is when a court incorrectly overruled the FCC. The FCC has never reclassified the broad band. It has never reclassified any other object or technology under it's control without an act of congress making it so.

      Read this from the EFF

      Here is another you should consider.

      "I don't think you know the history of what's going on here. I don't think you know what you're talking about at all."

    33. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You simply do not know what you are talking about. Even as long ago as the Clinton administration the FCC has only ever classified it as an information service.

      This PDF explains it better and more accurate than I am willing to invest time and effort in. Now granted, it is prepared by a bunch of industry insiders but it is references and to date I have found no one claiming anything in it of material fact is incorrect, misleading, or false.

    34. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      So, what you just admitted is that the FCC does have jurisdiction in this matter. Thank you.

      I never said they do not have jurisdiction in this matter. I said they have no legal standing to reclassify it and the FCC ignored it until the courts thrust it onto them.

      Now if you'd like to make the case that Chairman Wheeler needs to go to the NPRM process, I don't know if you've been under a rock for the last year or so but the FCC has received record breaking amounts of comments on this subject.

      There is no process in law that allows the FCC to change a classification without input from congress.

      Really? So in cases of emergencies, say a Katrina or a Sandy, we don't need no stinking regulations?

      You could possibly make the case that internet connectivity isn't crucial but voice communications are used to call police, fire and for medical help - in other words, critical infrastructure.

      Please stop taking crap out of context in order to make some point that couldn't otherwise stand in the light of day. Just because someone sends smoke signals does not mean all fires are now regulated by the FCC.

      That explicitly means that the FCC also has the power to reverse that decision.

      Actually, no it does not. For a detailed reason, read this FCC report to congress during the clinton years. In it, they discuss the ability to regulate the internet under title II and come to the conclusion that congress specifically intended the internet to be an information service. They even cite legislative history in doing so.

      Bullshit. The SCOTUS ruled that the FCC does have that authority and you just admitted that.

      The authority to regulate under title I as in information service. Please pay attention.

      I would agree that Title II isn't exactly tailored for the job, it's a holdover from the past. And to be quite frank with you, I would have loved to see Congress step up to the plate and do something for the American people for a change - but that's not what's happening here. Since Congress isn't going to do it, the FCC should impose Title II and then fix what doesn't work, even if that means having the courts argue over what works and doesn't. What we can see here is that Congress isn't fixing the problem, they are making it a lot worse.

      What? Congress is stepping up to the plate right now. This entire conversation is about a bill being introduced and unlike with Harry Reid in charge of the senate, amendments and crap will be allowed. But here is some opinions on the matter you might want to consider too.

      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/...

      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/...

      Of course those links go to an extreme right wing organization so take it with a grain of salt..

      Instead, we're handing control over one of our most critical pieces of infrastructure to monopolies who survive by using the public right of way as well as spectrum owned by the American people. I maintain that if any American wants access to that right of way, they have every bit as much right to do so as any large company.

      I agree, so lets get an act of congress that give access to those right of ways.

      Further, if the voters in any municipality vote to roll out their own network, no one should be able to take that right away form them - unless you want to make a case that the local people shouldn't have that right of self-determination. Personally, I'd love to hear you make that argument.

      Obligations is my argume

    35. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Indeed they do. And as someone who lives in that section of town, I would really like to have an option overpriced crappy cable and dialup 2.0 (DSL). And you know what? That isn't going to happen with the way things are setup now, is it?

      Then your best bet is to petition your local government to increase the demands on the providers. Without it, your options will be the same until they degrade to the point they are abandoned and you have less. Well, maybe not your specific area but the reasons you have those options is likely because it's expensive to reach you meaning without a lockin, it isn't profitable to service large portions of towns.

      I think you've got that backwards in many cities. What I see is the Fios being rolled out in the wealthy neighborhoods, typically rich suburban ones, while the inner cities are screwed.

      But even if you were correct, why the heck would anyone want a monopoly system?

      A necessary evil that forces companies to spend money where it wouldn't otherwise be profitable. If the option is to service 2 miles from the business (where the CO was located) district and screw everyone else like DSL did for the longest of time, or to force them to instal signal boosters and/or fiber to remote locations to run multiplexers from as to service the entire town which would you take? There is a lot of cable wire extending signal out to the edge of town, even more to reach outside the city limits. It gets expensive when the number of drops coming from them decrease. How would you like your only option to be satellite?

      Where do you get this? Companies being mandated to serve low income neighborhoods? Do you see Verizon rolling out Fios in your low income neighborhoods? No? Me either.

      In fact, with the exception of Google deploying FTTH in St Louis, do you see any low income neighborhoods with state of the art connectivity?

      No, you don't and neither do I.

      Telephone and cable is mandated to low income areas. The entire idea of FIOS being deployed there is what will happen if these technologies did not previously have a monopoly and were forced to service them because of that. That was the entire point behind why they existed. The only think that would change that would be to require them to roll out equal access in these areas and without exclusive access to the profitable areas, the unprofitable ones will likely stop it altogether.

      Let's see, began a broadband only ISP back in 1999, co-founded an industry, non-profit trade group in 2004, acted as an industry spokesperson in the MuniWireless space for a couple of years - so, you thinking that I only rely on SlashDot comments is pretty funny.

      IF any of that is true, you should start acting like you have a clue then. Seriously, what you have said so far is lacking on so many levels.

      Has it occurred to you that government regulation built what was at one time considered to be the gold standard in telecommunications worldwide?

      Sure. And as I said, I'm not against regulation. I am however against power grabs by government agency without any laws supporting it's move and without an act of congress to support it. Hell, even the FCC under Bill Clinton's administration came to the conclusion that the internet is an information service and nothing in the law allows them to regulate it under title II.

      Oh and these loons seem to share my concerns over this power grab for what its worth.

      And now look at where we are, we glorify asking if you can hear me now.

      Well, can you hear me?

      Interestin

    36. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that's the real answer. Government regulation built what WAS considered the gold standard in telecommunications. Then technology passed it by and regulations prevented upgrading so the system fell farther and farther behind.
      Once the ISP's become a regulated monopoly the system will never change. We'll end up with even crappier service in the high income areas which will be overpriced to support the crappy service in the lower income areas. Meanwhile since the FCC is basically owned by the big content providers we can expect high ISP prices with high content prices on top.

    37. Re:I doubt the Republicans wrote it... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I do think you are correct.

  4. Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by goruka · · Score: 2

    There is something I don't understand here..
    During all Obama's presidency, did Republicans manage to keep being the ruling party somehow? because it seems even with a Democrat president Obama can't pass any law without going through them.
    Or is all this democrat/republican thing just theater and Obama pretends to be the good guy failing to fight to the bad guys?
    Or something else going on?

    1. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Noxal · · Score: 2

      The President is not a part of the lawmaking branch of government. Presidents can't pass laws.

    2. Re: Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it helps that turnout in off year elections was low, so you can't expect it to be representative even if the districts were fair. They're not, so yeah, the American people aren't served by their legislators.

    3. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the President is the one who passes a law, Congress and the Senate pass bills.

    4. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by SpzToid · · Score: 1

      The Presidential Executive Branch enforces the laws, (and is the Commander In-Chief of the Armed Forces).

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    5. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by sumdumass · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, sort of. The president signs a bill into law- no passing necessary unless the president vetoes the bill and it goes back to congress and the senate in which if two thirds still want it, they can vote again and make it law independent of the president.

      A bill can also become law if the president does nothing and leave it sit for ten days or longer if congress is in session. It will automatically become law then. If congress is not in session, then it sort of disappears and does not become law.

    6. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by WillyWanker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because we have a House of Representatives and a Senate which comprise Congress. Both work independently of each other, and each can be ruled by either party. The clincher is that both the House and Senate need to agree to pass a bill. If a bill doesn't make it thru both sides it dies. The deadlock we've been seeing for the past few years has come from the Republicans ruling the House of Representatives and refusing to pass any Democrat-proposed bill coming from the Senate, even tho the Democrats ruled there, and vice-versa.

      Now that both sides are Republican I don't expect anything to change really. Since they are comprised of at least 4 warring factions amongst themselves (the tea party, moderates, extreme right wing faux-christians, and libertarians) it's highly unlikely both sides of Congress will ever agree on anything, and even if they do Obama has the power of veto to block any legislation that might successfully come out of Congress. Yes, Congress can override a veto with a 2/3rd majority vote, but that's extremely unlikely to ever happen. So essentially we will have another 2 years where absolutely nothing gets done.

    7. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by duckintheface · · Score: 4, Informative

      You ask a good question. Democrats could have passed a law in 2009 or 2010 when they controlled House, Senate, and White House. But they didn't, partly becasue they were busy collecting campaign contributions from these same ISPs. Obama has waited until after his personal last election and until after the next- to-last election under his presidency to propose rules that should have been in effect the whole time.

      Aside from campaign contributions, there may be one other reason for the late start on Title II regulation. It is only recently that content providers such as Netflix and Amazon have started producing quality programming and distributing it on the internet rather than on the TV channels controlled by the ISPs. This has undercut the revenue stream of these ISPs and encouraged them to begin differential pricing based on content provider. Comcast now charges extra to Netflix even though Netflix customers already pay for their internet service directly to Comcast. So they are "double billing" for the same service. If allowed to get away with this, the ISPs can be expected to continue to ratchet up the cost of accessing third party content, becasue they control the pipes. But the pipes were developed at public expense and using public right-of-way and so should be treated as a regulated utility.

      --
      "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    8. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by ChromaticDragon · · Score: 1

      > did Republicans manage to keep being the ruling party somehow?

      For most of Obama's years, yes.

      > it seems even with a Democrat president Obama can't pass any law without going through them

      No President can pass any law - wrong branch of government. And when the Legislative branch is indeed "controlled" (majority) by the opposing party, the President and the President's party would indeed have to "go through" the other party. But it's even worse. Although, in theory any Congress critter can start a Bill, bills usually must pass through a small committee first. And these committees are controlled by the majority party.

      > is all this democrat/republican thing just theater

      Maybe so. But you shouldn't come to this conclusion based on a lack of understanding of how the US system works.

      Your questions suggest you're more familiar with a parliamentary system of government where (per Wikipedia) "the executive branch derives its democratic legitimacy from, and is held accountable to, the legislature (parliament); the executive and legislative branches are thus interconnected." In such systems, a majority party (or a coalition) forms a government and from this selects/appoints a top executive (Prime Minister) almost certainly from that party.

      In the US, it's theoretically possible for the President to have no party affliliation whatsoever or to be a member of a party which ends up with none of the seats in Congress. In practice, this is very, very unlikely. But there's nothing tying these things together as in Parliamentary systems. The only real power the President has with regards to law making is the Veto. Once Congress finally gets their act together and passes something, it goes to the President who then either signs it or kills it (veto). And even then, the vetoed bill (usually) just goes back to Congress to give them one more chance. If Congress can vote again and pass it with a super-majority, it overrides the veto and the law goes into effect despite the wishes of the President.

    9. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Informative

      A bill can also become law if the president does nothing and leave it sit for ten days or longer if congress is in session. It will automatically become law then. If congress is not in session, then it sort of disappears and does not become law.

      Pocket Veto (for those interested)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    10. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Prime Minister doesn't have the power to "pass laws" either. Parliament puts forward bills and the senate approves them. Prime Minister is little more than Lower House party spokesman.

    11. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For some reason democrats think their family does not stink.

      http://cheezburger.com/7858274...

      This sums it up *very* well.

      I have been watching this for a long time. *BOTH* parties are equally to blame. In my state the D's presented a bill when they were in charge. The R's called it the worst thing evar!!! They are in charge the R's submit the exact same bill. Guess who thought it was the worst bill evar!!!!

      If someone here does not think the D's are not doing the exact same crap as the R's they are not paying attention. The D's right now are playing 'look at what the big bad party is doing' game. As they want to setup for the next election. They do not want to get their asses handed to them again.

    12. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by PixelScuba · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's not really true. The Democrats only had a supermajority for roughly 4 months in 2009. With a protracted legal battle, the GOP kept Al Franken out of the senate until July of that year. Ted Kennedy would die later that year and Scott Brown won the MA election. The Democrats had exactly 134 days to pass any legislation before the GOP began filibustering.

    13. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Your questions suggest you're more familiar with a parliamentary system of government where (per Wikipedia) "the executive branch derives its democratic legitimacy from, and is held accountable to, the legislature (parliament); the executive and legislative branches are thus interconnected." In such systems, a majority party (or a coalition) forms a government and from this selects/appoints a top executive (Prime Minister) almost certainly from that party.

      Another example of the wiki being wrong, at least as far as Westminster based Parliamentary systems. The executive is the Crown or her representative, eg the Governor General or in the case of Canadian Provinces, the Lieutenant Governor. Parliament (or Provincial Legislature) passes a bill, much like Congress though generally the Upper House has been neutered or eliminated, and when the Bill gets Royal Assent, it becomes law. In theory Royal Assent can be refused resulting in a veto, but in practice it almost never happens (over 300 years in England). The executive also does a few other things such as appointing the government based on which ever party or coalition can pass a budget, no budget, no government, usually resulting in an election, occasionally a different coalition.
      In practice, with a majority, due to party solitary, the PM can act like a dictator until the next election as his party will pass most any law the PM proposes/supports and the executive will follow the recommendations of Parliament.
      Further, in Canada at least, the courts and especially the Supreme Court acts much like the American courts and Supreme Court and can declare laws (or parts of) null and void due to the Constitutionality. In the recent past and I believe even today in New Zealand, Parliament was Supreme and could pass almost any law

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    14. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There is something I don't understand here.. During all Obama's presidency, did Republicans manage to keep being the ruling party somehow? because it seems even with a Democrat president Obama can't pass any law without going through them.

      In addition to what others have said.....

      In America, unlike some other countries, congresspeople are free to vote however they like, regardless of party. So a lot of times you'll see a few democrats voting with republicans and vice versa. Because America is so big and diverse, frequently parties are not unified in opinion, for example, a senator in rural west-Virginia might be pro-union, but also anti-gun-control,

      That's why they had so much trouble passing Obamacare even while controlling both branches of congress: because they were trying to convince every democrat to vote for it. Some didn't want to vote for it because of abortion, others for other reasons.

      The party can't stop congresspeople from crossing party lines, but sometimes they retaliate by not giving them campaign money (which the congressperson may or may not need).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sort of, the real problem is that the GOP has held at least 41 seats in the Senate for all but a couple of months due to various reasons. It would have been longer if that moron in Minnesota had conceded to Al Franken when he lost rather than insisting on fighting for a few more months while keeping Franken from taking his seat.

      As long as the Democrats didn't have the votes necessary to get a cloture vote, nothing could be done. The fact that the GOP was outright working to undermine the country for political gain should have led to sedition charges rather than concession. The traitors should have been shot the moment that fealty pledge to Grover was discovered.

    16. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by jmac_the_man · · Score: 1

      The Democrats had exactly 134 days to pass any legislation before the GOP began filibustering.

      Or, you know, they could pass bills that were acceptable to both sides. God forbid.

    17. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except, sadly, there is no such thing. A bill that is acceptable to moderate Republicans and Democrats? Sure, that is possible. A bill that is acceptable to tea baggers and Democrats? Not possible. When tea party morons like Ted Cruz can shut down the Federal government instead of passing a budget, it is clear who controls the Republicans, and it is not the ones with brains. Ergo, no bills will pass.

    18. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      To be fair that was a rather odd but close election. The sitting senator Norm Colman initially had won but by a very slim margin (surprising since I figured he would have lost by a large margin after his TV commercial basically telling Minnesotans to STFU about the bailouts just before the election) and it was only during the recount that Franken came out ahead. From the news on it there were some questionable things that happened plus the Minnesota law on recounts states that the ballot judges need to determine "voter intent". So it wasn't really the Minnesota GOP trying to be dicks any more than the process playing out in a very close and contentious election with some bad laws that are open to personal bias. On this topic I remember there being a controversy about a found ballot box in someone's vehicle that was from Minneapolis, but didn't see or hear much follow up on it. I do remember that was a major point of contention since from what I remember it was that box that put Franken over the top.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    19. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republicans made unprecedented use of the filibuster. So much so that the media routinely describes a bill as "failing to pass" if it doesn't get 2/3 of the Senate. Not just for bills, but for all kinds of appointments like federal judges. They normalized behavior that was previously only used in extraordinary circumstances.

    20. Re:Explain this to a non-Americal please.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would contest your view. The deadlock we've been seeing for the past few years has come from the Democrats ruling the Senate and refusing to pass any Republican or Democrat-proposed bill coming from the House of Representatives. Indeed while in the Senate the Majority leader can prevent any bill from coming to the floor, which is what has happened, in the House any member can propose a bill. While it is possible to send such a bill to committee to die, this has not generally been the case. Bills have been passed in the House, often with bipartisan support and the Senate has refused to send them to the floor.

  5. Spin Wars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And why would anyone be afraid of letting Obama get more power to control private companies, communications and write up more regulations where he can add additions "rules" like he did for healthcare, the IRS, the NSA and well everything else in our lives. "net neutrality" is a good thing, but both sides have no intent of helping us. And you thought all these anti-Republican hit posts on Slashdot were from unbiased independents too! HAhahaha! American politics is pure cancer.

    1. Re:Spin Wars by fnj · · Score: 2

      afraid of letting Obama get more power to control private companies

      President Obama != the FCC. The FCC is an independent authority. It doesn't answer to any President, although it can be circumscribed by laws. The FCC is directed by five commissioners appointed by the U.S. president and confirmed by the U.S. Senate for five-year terms, except when filling an unexpired term. The president designates one of the commissioners to serve as chairman. Only three commissioners may be members of the same political party. None of them may have a financial interest in any FCC-related business.

    2. Re:Spin Wars by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

      Only three commissioners may be members of the same political party. None of them may have a current financial interest in any FCC-related business.

      FTFY - judging from the revolving door at the FCC (and other agencies).

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  6. "Free Market" religion by duckintheface · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does anyone think the sponsors of this legialation have serioulsly considered the issues of user access and cost? Of course not. As in so many areas of public life, Republicans have adopted the mantra of "free markets". Which is another way of saying on behalf of large corporations, "Let the Wookie win". Let the big strong arm-ripping behemoth have its way. This disregards the needs of the majority of the population and lets corporations take the profits resulting from public investment and tax dollars.

    The internet has never been about "free markets". The internet was developed by the government and universities (with public funding). As far as the big ISPs are concerned, most of them, such as Comcast and Time Warner, make use of public right-of-way to carry thier signals to their customers. Most of this right-of-way was obtained either through imminent domain (for the public good) or for other purposes entirely (to carry power lines). This has resulted in a protected monopoly for these ISPs. They have no competition, the exact opposite of a free market.

    Title II will treat the ISPs as utilities so that their rates will be controlled and their fiber optic cables will be available to all content providers under competitive conditions. This is really a free market in content, rather than the coroporate oligarchy envisioned by this Repucblican legislation.

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    1. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like that wouldn't or couldn't happen under Title II?

    2. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It could happen, but then you could start a competing ISP . . .

    3. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Perhaps...

      The reason they ended up with Title II is because that is all that is left to them. If you read what the judge said when they got shot down last time. He said 2 things title II *might* work or congress needs to fix this. There is no guarantee that it will work. In fact it may make the situation worse. No one knows how it will burn down when you put it in front of a judge (any lawyer will tell you that). In fact the only one really bitching about being title II is at&t and comcast. The rest seem semi cool with it and have said so. As it does not really change anything as most are already working in the guidelines of title II. For example Verizion is an ISP AND a phone company (which is title II). Many of them already are title II.

      Congress needs to fix this. Otherwise they will keep trying to twist laws into loops that are not meant for this. The democrats sat on this for 10 years.

      Title II may be the right way. But it also needs to be updated to reflect our new landscape too. It was written in the 1930s. I am thinking a bit of tech has changed a bit here and there since then...

    4. Re:"Free Market" religion by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Funny

      "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

      I take it it is not self evident to you that pursuit of happiness among equals means among people that are equal under law and nothing else? Yet here you are proposing that some are not equal under law to others, that there should be laws that apply differently because some, who are not you, built and are running services that you want to purchase, they have done so without any laws that you now want to see implemented to limit their freedom. You do not want tocompete with them, you want to enslave their work to your terms.

      As far as I am concerned every single (without exception) thing that governments do end up hurting me because every single thing that governments do impede upon individual freedom for self determination and ability to attempt and improve individual conditions.

      No, governments should not be able to violate laws, like private property rights. This means eminent domain cannot exist, this means government cannot be allowed to intervene between any parties signing a contract, this means there can be no business or labour or money regulations.

      At most government can be allowed to police borders and search for murderers and rapists and isolate them. But even these functions lead to ever greater government with more and more power that it should not have.

      It is not a religion, it is an ideology of individual freedom from tyranny and from oppression. 2 or more wrongs do not make a right. Destroying more freedom now, because other freedoms were already destroyed earlier does not make a better society. Instead government needs to be abolished, 99% of what it does need to be abolished.

      The only way to get a wealthy and ready qnd able to withstand long term difficulties society is not to shackle individuals in it with the chains of the murderous will of the mob. Individuals are capable and smart and may even be brilliant in pursuit of their own happiness on their own terms but the mob is none of that. Decisions made by individuals have an impact on them and on a limited surrounding circle,decisions imposed by the mob have impact upon the entire society at the expense of brilliance, wealth, inventiveness, long term health of the society.

      Governments must not be allowed to stand in the way of development of society but today many equate governments and society, while the reality is that governments steal power, wealth, health of society and the benefits of this theft are limited to very few very well connected individuals.

      Being one of those connected individuals is great for them, but the society is diminished and empoverished because of unequal treatment.

      Switzerland just cut its losses and depegged from Euro, basically it left the Euro zone unilaterally, well, this is the first correct move by a central bank (since 1981 Volker's 21.5% interest rate) in a long time. This is a call to action. Large governments fail and the larger the government the more spectacular the failure. It is an example that applies here as well. Yes, horrible things were done, eminent domain for example, but do not compoune the error, cut your losses and cut the reason of the problem, shut down most of the government, kill all business a d labour laws, kill income related taxes, yoh have to cut losses and return to the idea and ideology of individual freedom. It built the most wealthy manufacturer bases (I do not like the word 'countries' or 'nations', they imply group ownership as opposed to individual freedom), ever in history of humanity. It took a long time to destroy that wealth in the USA, the momentum was so great, momentum built in the 19th century and dissipated in the 20th.

      If there is an ideology in the idea that free people in their own pursuit of happiness will build better anx wealthier societies than what is done in systems domina

    5. Re:"Free Market" religion by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm in favor of free markets, but that's not what the status quo currently is. Right now incumbent ISPs have a monopoly on a lot of local rights of way and ordinances. If a competitor wants to move in, it's basically some local government that puts a stop to it (albeit at the behest of the incumbent ISP.)

      I don't think Title II is necessarily the perfect answer (partly because of the New Deal era taxation that goes along with it) but it is better than the status quo.

    6. Re:"Free Market" religion by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it. Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.

    7. Re: "Free Market" religion by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      Why are you quoting the words of slave owners in an essay about freedom?

    8. Re:"Free Market" religion by master_kaos · · Score: 1

      In canada that used to be the case. However now all of the telecoms are ripping up streets themselves laying down new fibre.

    9. Re: "Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A man may be equal. What a man does is not.

      This is why laws treat us differently when we do different things.

    10. Re:"Free Market" religion by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm in favor of free markets, but that's not what the status quo currently is.

      Exactly. If the ISPs competed in a a free market, NN would not be necessary. NN is not a remedy for free markets, it is a remedy for de facto monopolies.

    11. Re: "Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why are you quoting the words of slave owners in an essay about freedom?

      Because he cannot distinguish the two. He harps on all the time about "freedom" when he is simultaneously writing constantly about how dearly he yearns to be able to buy and sell people as commodities on the open market. There is nobody on slashdot who has ever bragged as openly about not paying employees as Mr. Mironenko.

      Similarly, he claims to be an atheist while being the loudest and most devoutly religious poster of anyone on slashdot. He doesn't see a contradiction in that, either.

    12. Re:"Free Market" religion by duckintheface · · Score: 1

      I think you're right Dragon. Truly free markets are a very efficient means of allocating resources. The problem is that markets have no way of determining the will of the majority of people. Maximizing profits is not hte same thing as determining what is best for society. The belief that it is the same thing is what I call a religion. Once society, through it's elected representatives, has decided on a course of action, truly free markets within a regulatory framework are the most efficient way to reach that goal.

      --
      "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    13. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to quote a wise rapper - "the dirty bastards knew exactly what they were doing"

    14. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Letting the market decide is always the best approach; large corps never win, the bureaucracy sucks the soul right out, unless they succeed at rent seeking, the very definition of crony capitalism.

      There is no protections for large corps, no rent seeking, in this current iteration.

      Good day.

    15. Re:"Free Market" religion by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Federal law already states Internet access cannot be taxed. I assume that law would take precedence of Title II taxation.

    16. Re:"Free Market" religion by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      The way to counter this free market talk is to counter it with talk of free markets.

      Talk about how many municipalities don't allow more than one provider. This is anti-capitalist, anti-free market, and not necessary (as has been shown by Google fiber). Get the Republicans focused on fixing that problem, and they will feel like they are doing something good AND they will be actually doing something good.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't be a dumb fuck. Under Title II, that couldn't happen, period.

      You know why? Once it's all Title II, anyone can open up shop and offer services.

      Gee - free market, lowest price wins!

      Wow - we just get cheaper and better internet.

      Today's market is anything but free.

    18. Re: "Free Market" religion by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Wrong. I can even say that a man is what a man does.

    19. Re:"Free Market" religion by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      It could happen and it did. There was a time when under Title II local measured service was what you got, and long distance calls were not only billed by time but by distance as well.

    20. Re: "Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the Internet was NOT a private venture, right? That it was in fact built first and taken over later by rent seeking monopolists, right? That it was funded by government money, and that the corporations you worship took government money to improve connectivity to the country and did essentially nothing with it, right? And the reason they haven't been called to account for it is the cover given them by these alleged free market types, right? (BTW, this model worked just fine building out the original telephone system in the first place, and would have worked here except for CORPORATE corruption)

      So you'll forgive me if your imaginary universal right to collective property (corporations) kind of pisses me off because I want to be able to use what I ALREADY PAID FOR at reasonable rates and without unreasonable restrictions.

    21. Re:"Free Market" religion by MadMartigan2001 · · Score: 2

      The problem is that markets have no way of determining the will of the majority of people.

      A truly free market by definition is responsive to the majority (will) of the people. If the people like "A" over "B" in a free market, that is what they invest/buy/suggest/endorse etc.

      Maximizing profits is not the same thing as determining what is best for society.

      Really? Who determines what is "best" for society? You? Government? Corporations? In a free market the people decide what is important to them and that is the direction society goes. If the majority of the people choose to buy/use "A" then that is their choice and the will of the people will be the most profitable. You and I may not agree with it but if you truly respect your fellow citizen then you have to allow them their "Vote".

      The belief that it is the same thing is what I call a religion.

      Another definition of religion is when someone claims to know "what is best" for everyone else. You are exhibiting the exact behavior of those you are accusing.

      Once society, through it's elected representatives, has decided on a course of action, truly free markets within a regulatory framework are the most efficient way to reach that goal.

      You are 100% correct here, sir. Now, if you could just explain how you intend to ensure that those elected representatives are actually representing the will of the people. History clearly shows that representative government is a great idea that never works due to corruption. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume consolidation of power will result in corruption so power should be distributed as much as possible among the populace.

      No solution is perfect, but I would argue that replacing selfish decisions due to corruption with selfish decisions due to personal interest is a step in the right direction. The decision may the the same or just as bad, but at least you are not contributing to the power structure of a select few.

    22. Re:"Free Market" religion by leonbev · · Score: 1

      You say that like every Mom and Pop shop in the world has the resources to set up and support their own multi-million/billion dollar metropolitan fiber network.

      Yes, competition will be easier with Title II, but it's not going to happen quickly. Plus, you're still going to have some rural areas where there simply isn't a large enough customer base to support multiple profitable ISP's.

    23. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thank you for that complete bunch of utter twadle roman_mir, i think you should have posted this as an AC if you wanted it to be taken seriously however your writing style and political leaning is far too easy to identify. Keep sucking that corporate dick for that black wyrm jizz you crave. To some your words are a salve, to myself and many others your words serve as a warning against air punching, USA chanting, knucle draggers ever ready to offer your rump for a good old cornholing.

    24. Re:"Free Market" religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Who determines what is "best" for society? You? Government? Corporations? In a free market the people decide what is important to them and that is the direction society goes. If the majority of the people choose to buy/use "A" then that is their choice and the will of the people will be the most profitable. You and I may not agree with it but if you truly respect your fellow citizen then you have to allow them their "Vote".

      Nice idea in principle, but we have ISPs as monopolies in many areas, if you want to access the internet in these areas you have very little 'choice'. If there is no real choice can this really be considered a free market?

    25. Re:"Free Market" religion by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      So Big Brother regulation breeds competition? I'm not saying the republicans (especially those in power) are for free markets but what makes you possibly think that FCC regulation would lead to more competition? The problem is in state regulation - and you think Federal legislation will magically solve the problem? Or do you think - perhaps it will lead to more centralized control, a more centralized bureaucracy that creates another "too big to fail" monstrosity.

      Trading dozens of poorly run state systems with one huge system is not going to help.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    26. Re:"Free Market" religion by mjtaylor24601 · · Score: 1

      A truly free market by definition is responsive to the majority (will) of the people. If the people like "A" over "B" in a free market, that is what they invest/buy/suggest/endorse etc.

      Not necessarily true. A free market solution might disproportionately benefit the very wealthy for example. That's not a priori bad, but it would certainly be a stretch to call it representing the will of the majority of the people.

      --
      I wish I were as sure of anything as some people are of everything
    27. Re:"Free Market" religion by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Which is where local government can step in and provide without fear of lawsuits from big telecom that prevents such rollouts.

    28. Re:"Free Market" religion by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Apparently you are no familiar with Google's petition to the FCC says Title II would help them gain access to utilities poles to roll out fiber.

    29. Re:"Free Market" religion by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Yes. It will make their life easier. A short term gain - at what price? Consolidating even more power in Imperial Washington and reducing the only real check and balance to the federal leviathan - the states. I'm not saying that states automatically do things better than the Federal Govt - they obviously don't. But continual chipping away at the power of states and placing it in Washington is something to be concerned about. And what are we doing it for - to make it easier for Google to lay fiber and gain more customers.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    30. Re:"Free Market" religion by whistlingtony · · Score: 2

      Those bills weren't a product of Title II regulation, and you know it.

      Forcing the ISPs to lease the lines out to other players, and hence creating actual competition and a plethora of mom and pop ISPs? That WAS a product of Title II regulation.

      You sir, are a liar.

    31. Re:"Free Market" religion by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

      We could fix it by passing a law that the broadband companies had to lease their lines at reasonable rates to third parties. We used to do that, and it created real competition by enabling mom and pop ISPs...

      That would be awesome... Oh wait, that was done using Title II regulation back in the day.

    32. Re:"Free Market" religion by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yes, if we did that, we wouldn't need to worry about net neutrality because there would always be another ISP.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    33. Re:"Free Market" religion by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Those bills weren't a product of Title II regulation, and you know it.

      Forcing the ISPs to lease the lines out to other players, and hence creating actual competition and a plethora of mom and pop ISPs? That WAS a product of Title II regulation.

      You sir, are a liar.

      Really when did this happen ? ATT was regulated on this basis for 60+ years, and it wasn't till the consent decision and the telecommunications act of 1996 that you had competition in the phone sector. Putting Comcast/ATT/Verizon under Title II isn't going to give anyone access to their lines, it will give them the right to hang lines from the phone poles, for a reasonable rate. That's a far cry from allowing anyone with routers/billing software to buy wholesale and undercut the incumbents.

      So while you think me a liar, I have to see you as uninformed

    34. Re:"Free Market" religion by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      That's what I thought, but apparently Title II reclassifies them as telecom providers, which means that the internet tax freedom act doesn't apply to them:

      http://blogs.reuters.com/great...

      The price will go up by about 16% unless the internet tax law is changed to also apply to telecoms, which it may as well because the line between telecom and broadband is very much muddled these days, and will be even more so when practically all voice traffic is done over IP.

      Or, alternatively, if a new form of Title II is created that applies all of the same effects, without the New Deal era provisions. (The FCC does not have the authority to do this, only congress does. The FCC does however have the authority to reclassify internet providers to existing Title II rules though.)

      IMO the best thing to do is to simply remove the New Deal provisions from Title II and just use that, which would probably also lower your cell phone bill (which, depending on your state, you add anywhere from 10% to 25% to your bill, which IMO is due to them still being perceived as a rich man's luxury.)

    35. Re:"Free Market" religion by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Does anyone think the sponsors of this legialation have serioulsly considered the issues of user access and cost? Of course not. As in so many areas of public life, Republicans have adopted the mantra of "free markets". Which is another way of saying on behalf of large corporations, "Let the Wookie win". Let the big strong arm-ripping behemoth have its way. This disregards the needs of the majority of the population and lets corporations take the profits resulting from public investment and tax dollars.

      The internet has never been about "free markets". The internet was developed by the government and universities (with public funding). As far as the big ISPs are concerned, most of them, such as Comcast and Time Warner, make use of public right-of-way to carry thier signals to their customers. Most of this right-of-way was obtained either through imminent domain (for the public good) or for other purposes entirely (to carry power lines). This has resulted in a protected monopoly for these ISPs. They have no competition, the exact opposite of a free market.

      Title II will treat the ISPs as utilities so that their rates will be controlled and their fiber optic cables will be available to all content providers under competitive conditions. This is really a free market in content, rather than the coroporate oligarchy envisioned by this Republican legislation.

      Is it time for a second internet, where all the devices that could/would/"need to be" connected could do so. (At a very low priority and very small message size)?
      The regular internet for users would be neutral. As it is streamers who watch movies, etc pay for their bandwidth by their monthly fee. The networks make money from that fee, and are now also wanting to ding the providers. And with the loss of neutrality, will come the nickel and dime-ing of everyone who is connected. The loss of net neutrality creates an Open Highway Toll road which again shifts the money from the middle class to the super wealthy, but does not provide the needed services as part of a basic fee.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  7. They can propose all they want by davmoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Republicans in both the House and Senate can propose this legislation all day long. They can even vote to pass it. But ti still can't get around a Presidential veto, and in their wildest dreams the GOP does not have the votes to override a veto.

    --
    I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    1. Re:They can propose all they want by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Obama veto a bill... yeah right.

      The current president has used the veto less than any president in over 100 years. He's used it twice in eight years and has happily signed into law bills that directly countered the platform he ran for office on. If this managed to make it to his desk, he'd probably sign it just the same.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  8. Use that pen Mr. President! by WillyWanker · · Score: 1

    VETO!!!

    1. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by Amigan · · Score: 1

      If only he used the pen for VETO as opposed to EOs...

      --
      "Software is the difference between hardware and reality"
    2. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by WillyWanker · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well before he can veto, Congress needs to actually pass something, which in and of itself is highly unlikely.

      And I have absolutely zero issues with executive orders. Presidents have been using them for decades and no one ever complained until now. It's just more anti-Obama smoke and mirrors courtesy of the Koch brothers and Faux News.

    3. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by Amigan · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You mean his EOs to delay/change/alter the ACA? When Congress attempted to pass "into law" his EO on the delay, he announce he would veto it? It *is* good to be king. Note the 2nd paragraph here - delay that it was a bill to do what the Administration had already announced. Enforcing the law is the Executive branch's job, not changing it.

      --
      "Software is the difference between hardware and reality"
    4. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by WillyWanker · · Score: 2

      Oh please, stop with the Faux News bullshit. His EO and the bill that the Republicans attempted to pass were NOT equal in form or substance, namely, the EO was a delay that applied only to businesses while the GOP bill would apply to everyone, which would have resulted in a rise in premiums and lower enrollment numbers. And let's face it, the GOP bill is yet another thinly-veiled attempt at derailing the ACA, unlike the EO which was actually a bone toss to businesses to help them get onboard.

      If you're going to bitch about something at least try to get your facts straight and compare apples to apples instead of oranges.

      And apparently since you weren't paying attention the last time Faux News and the GOP made a stink about his EOs, it is 100% within the purview of POTUS to pass EOs that grant amnesty from any law he chooses. In this case it was nothing more than amnesty to businesses who did not enroll in the ACA. Really, it's not hard to understand. Enforcing the law also includes the ability to NOT enforce it when you see fit. It's done all the time from local DAs, to Mayors, to Governors, and right up the pipeline to President. All have the power to grant amnesty or to not charge someone for breaking the law. When a DA or Governor does it no one blinks. When the Black man does it, everyone starts screaming bloody murder.

    5. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by sribe · · Score: 1

      When the Black man does it, everyone starts screaming bloody murder.

      Bingo!

    6. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      EOs are completely legal and have been used since the creation of the union. Reagan used then, Bush I used them, Clinton used them, Bush II used them....name a president that did not use an Executive Order please.

      Idiots.

    7. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by meglon · · Score: 1

      Harrison. Just saying.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    8. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am assuming you mean William, who was in office for about a month before dying of pneumonia. I am sure if he lived through the four years of his term he would have used them just like his grandson, Benjamin Harrison.

    9. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by meglon · · Score: 1

      Beings as he was the ONLY president not to use them, regardless of the circumstances why, i'd suggest your assumption is correct.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    10. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but personally, the fact that Obamas doners, erm, sorry, businesses, being the only ones to get an exemption is a hell of a lot bigger of a problem than just delaying it to everybody and being, you know, fair. And who cares if the enrollment numbers would have been lower, they would have just double counted more people and then claimed it was a mistake later.

      And as for the whole EO thing, if this is what it takes to get it into the main stream news, then so be it. If you ever bothered to read the constitution (like, the proper constitution, not the bill of rights, the part that actually divides and defines powers of different branches), you'd see the executive branch is explicitly forbidden the power to legislate, with that power only going to the legislative branch. As such, any act the president does, any president, not just current, which is legislative in nature is strictly prohibited by the oath he swore when he took office. The entire idea of EOs pisses me off completely. It leads to too much of a dictator role.

    11. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      When the Black man does it, everyone starts screaming bloody murder.

      Close but much more likely is when the other party does it scream bloody murder.
      Remember Bush and how all the democrats screamed about the stuff he did while the republicans kept their pie holes shut. Now that Obama is president and doing the same things the democrats are the ones keeping their pie holes shut and the republicans are screaming about it.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    12. Re:Use that pen Mr. President! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Big difference is that despite the crying over Shrub's idiotic term actions, the entire democrat party did not make it their *electioneering plank* to refuse power to Republicans.

      Why?

      Because there are a huge and noisy minority in the republican lines who are SHIT SCARED of a "nigger in the whitehouse" making the rules. They're expecting him to be as horrendous to "the other race" as they were when they were in power, so feel *fully justified* in being terrified of Obama.

  9. Great Part of Republican-backed Industry Bill by MisterSquid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "which Internet service providers (ISPs) and Republicans say would unnecessarily burden the industry with regulation." - Except it IS NECESSARY, DUMMIES.

    Given where US broadband is even in major metropolitan areas like San Francisco, New York, and Chicago, regulation as Title II is EXACTLY what US ISPs need to get their acts together. I mean 12 mbs down and 5 mbs up for $50/month in 2015. Give me a fucking break.

    The great part of this Republican-backed shill bill? Obama is going to VETO it.

    Suck THAT you plutocratic, money-grubbing, technologically-illiterate enemies of the United States. (Yes, I'm talking about the so-called "honorable" representatives who are backing this bill, whatever their political stripes may be. [Though we all know exactly what those stripes are, right?])

    --
    blog
    1. Re:Great Part of Republican-backed Industry Bill by duckintheface · · Score: 2

      You are exactly right. The ISPs have always been short term in their thinking. Under Title II they will be providing better and cheaper content to thier customers which will result in more customers. There is a reason that Comcast has the worst consumer satisfaction of any US company, with Time Warner a close second. They try to milk their customers for every penny they can get with their predatory "promotional" pricing. And now they have begun to milk the third party providers of internet content as well.

      Ironically, in the long run these ISPs will do very well under Title II becasue they will be forced to grow their user base instead of shrinking it as has been the case in recent years.

      --
      "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
  10. Getting around the court decision by Amigan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The FCC has tried once to enforce Net Neutrality. This was ruled illegal by the courts, see ruling .

    Now by making the ISPs "common carriers", we will get all the innovation that we got under Ma Bell before the breakup in 1983 :-(

    --
    "Software is the difference between hardware and reality"
    1. Re:Getting around the court decision by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Utter nonsense.

      The common carrier status of AT&T had nothing to do with it's level of "innovation". It's monopoly status did. Competitive providers are more than capable of operating in a non-monopoly environment. The example of phone services AFTER the AT&T breakup is a glaringly obvious example of this.

      We already have a working model for breaking up the cable monopolies.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Getting around the court decision by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Common Carrier status for ISPs will let them get access to right of ways. As it stands right now, ISPs do not have access to right of ways, only telcoms and cable companies do, which is why nearly every land line ISP is also a telcom or cable company.

    3. Re:Getting around the court decision by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      You are an idiot that does not understand why Ma Bell was not innovative or what the court actually told the FCC when it over-turned the rules...you certainly do not understand the crap political game the ISPs have been playing with the FCC regarding when they do and do not want to be considered a common carrier.

    4. Re:Getting around the court decision by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Making ISPs common carriers allows ISPs access to right of ways. Kind of an important thing. Strangely enough, government regulation lowers the barrier to entry, I assume this is a good thing, but I could be wrong. Maybe the current extremely high barrier to entry is a good thing.

    5. Re:Getting around the court decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God dammit, it's "rights of way," not "right of ways."

      Perhaps you'd be taken more seriously if you didn't make a total ass of yourself.

  11. Now how many of those republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Were given large sums of money as part of "lobbying"(bribing) by the big ISPs ?

  12. separation of powers. See How a Bill Becomes a Law by raymorris · · Score: 1

    There is a video you might interesting called How a Bill Becomes a Law. Under the USUS Constitution, the chairman of the FCC doesn't write law, and the president doesn't write law. The Congress does that. The President's role is, in the words of his sworn oath, to "faithfully execute the law". Here "execute" doesn't mean kill, though you might get that impression from watching Obama.

  13. "tougher regulations backed by Obama" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That lame duck couldn't regulate my colon.

  14. Re:You can't trust either group of 1%er mentalitie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The current regulations have resulted in a few giant providers against whom other companies can't compete. That's great for those few providers, but terrible for anyone else who wants to make money providing broadband. So the industry already is burdened by regulation. The Republicans are arguing in support of regulation -- the current, burdensome ones -- under the guise of arguing against regulation. A very common situation with them.

    Obama is proposing a change in the regulations. It looks like it will produce a better market for almost everyone, except those few giant providers. That's a good thing. If you're going to have regulations, have ones that help the most people.

    If the Republicans were truly against regulation, they would try to abolish the FCC. That is what telecom deregulation would really be. It might sound infeasible, but when Somalia was in anarchy, ruled by a patchwork of warlords, the telecom industry exploded. The warlords protected the telecom infrastructure (for their own use), and prices plummeted while service rose. Obviously, in the United States that level of "regulation" could easily be covered by state law enforcement and the FBI. And we wouldn't have self-appointed moral guardians filing thousands of complaints about content (which, incidentally, burdens the broadcast television industry by disallowing it to provide content similar to what cable providers like HBO can).

  15. Government control religion ("Free Market") by mi · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Does anyone think the sponsors of this legialation have serioulsly considered the issues of user access and cost?

    I sure do think so.

    the mantra of "free markets"

    Yes, leave it to Illiberals to criticize free markets. Government take-over did so well for railroads, public transport, and telephone-service, what could possibly be wrong about adding Internet to the mix?

    This has resulted in a protected monopoly for these ISPs. [...] treat the ISPs as utilities so that their rates will be controlled

    Yes, an earlier mistake of our government letting corporations have monopolies (of cable TV) still needs to be dealt with. But the price-control you are advocating in the next paragraph only makes things worse. Because the incumbents are much better versed in dealing with the government regulators, than a newcomer will ever be.

    And, while you are accusing Republicans of baby-eating, it is the Democrats who are owned by the Big Cable.

    This is really a free market in content

    So, free market in content is a good mantra, but free market in service provision is bad? Or did you change your mind by the end of typing your post?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Government control religion ("Free Market") by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you don't remember what it was like when those were all held by single entities. You paid whatever they wanted to charge, or you did without completely. If the railroad or telephone company didn't want to service your town, it probably died over night and there was never any real idea what would happen in the future.

      Things are substantially better now, I can't recall the last time I received a bill charge for having more than one phone in my house or having an unapproved of color.

    2. Re:Government control religion ("Free Market") by mi · · Score: 1

      I take it you don't remember what it was like when those were all held by single entities.

      I do remember it, and I mentioned that unfortunate state as one, brought about by an earlier attempt by our government to regulate cable companies. In exchange for the regulation they wrestled monopoly powers — and ran with it (like AT&T did decades before that).

      That mistake was corrected in the 90ies, though the problems caused by earlier government stupidity remain. To now point at them and argue, we need more governmental control (as duckintheface is doing above), requires a very special kind of stupid.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  16. The nature of 17 yo consent by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Informative

    The fucker is 47 years old. 47!!! What version of "consensual" was it?

    She was 17. It is your position that a 17-year old could never give informed consent? That's pretty much the law's position (and it is demonstrably stupid, and almost always harmful, and so out of touch with reality it's almost frightening.) If you're going with "age line in the sand" to define 17 year olds as incompetent by definition in such matters, then you are all those things the law is, and we're done -- take your torch and pitchfork and have at it.

    Get here? Ok, then I presume that is not your position, and that you agree that at least some 17 year olds can indeed give informed consent. So the next question is, is it your position that such a a 17-year old can give informed consent if the partner is also 17, but not if the partner is 47? Because I have to tell you, that kind of thinking can only arise from magical bullshit, and I'm fresh out. Anyway...

    I shouldn't have to even ask this, but given the twisted, peculiar nature of your post, I presume you agree that the 47 year old can give informed consent, yes?.

    Also, at least get your terminology right. A pedophile is someone with a sexual interest in children. Which is horrific and creepy, because children aren't sexually mature and so sexuality, by its very definition, isn't part of their normal and customary worldview. And putting it there, or trying to, is abusive, in the fundamental sense of the term. You know, child abuse. Because they're children.

    An ephibophile, on the other hand, is someone with primary or exclusive sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, often described as ages 15 to 19 (but perhaps much more accurately defined by the single criteria of being physically a sexually mature human being. 15 is not a magic number, no matter what your astrologer has been telling you.) Note that if this is not your primary or exclusive interest, then you're just a typical person. Because sexually mature bodies are typically of normal and healthy sexual interest to most who are sexually active. Which is not to say that the first word out of a teenager's mouth might not send most 47-year-olds running away screaming, but that's really not the same issue.

    Also note that for many teenagers (I want to say all, but I have not met them all) sex is pretty much the #1 subject on their mind. Learning about it, having it, exploring it, and so on. The whole shebang, as it were. And this is precisely correct behavior from the POV of the body's various clocks. Socially, we have to deal with the hangover of superstition and Victorian insanity, but the fact is, many teenagers (definitely including the 17 year old demo) are having great, happy sex all the time and the vast majority of those so engaged are both glad of it and not even fractionally interested in any contrary opinion of yours thereof.

    Sometimes sex is about relationships and all of that. Complex, interrelated, even a matter of power or submission. Which can be wonderful. Rah, rah. But sometimes it's just sex. Hot, steamy, bouncy, hanging-from-the-chandeliers physical activity with a bang. Or several. Ahem. In such a case, and in the instance of informed consent, I see absolutely no barrier to sex between a 17 year old and a 47 year old, any more than I see a barrier between a 17 year old and a 47 year old that should prevent them from playing tennis, or chess.

    Here in Montana, the age of consent -- below which "sex without consent" can be charged -- is sixteen. It's still stupid as there will be (mostly) exceptions on either side of the rule, but the point is, were that guy here, no one would even blink, legally speaking.

    Seems to me that you put your Outrage Panties on a little too tight this morning.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:The nature of 17 yo consent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She was 17. It is your position that a 17-year old could never give informed consent? That's pretty much the law's position

      My position is because of the latter, the former is irrelevant. If you are an adult, in a state where a 17 year old can’t give informed consent, don’t have sex with a 17 year old. Period.

      The fact that he was 47 is irrelevant. He could be 27. It was illegal, and you shouldn’t do it. He’s in congress, he can go try to change the law, but short of that, you don’t do it.

    2. Re:The nature of 17 yo consent by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      My position is because of the latter, the former is irrelevant. If you are an adult, in a state where a 17 year old can’t give informed consent, don’t have sex with a 17 year old. Period.

      I see. Because the law is always right, eh? As in enforcing slavery, suppressing women, having separate entrances for people of the "wrong" color, forcing them to the back of the bus, taking money without a warrant or a court order or a conviction or probable cause, torturing people, making love to the "wrong" sex (or just involving the "wrong" orifice), allowing (only) congress to engage in insider trading, retroactively increasing the sentences of the convicted, wiretapping and so forth without warrants, shooting Indians without consequence...

      I could go on for quite a while with regard to laws that were completely, utterly wrong and which never, ever should have been obeyed on their own merits, or even in the context of maintaining public order. Certainly they deserved no part whatsoever in any call for "respect" for the system -- to the contrary, laws like these tell thinking citizens that the law is -- and lawmakers are -- not worthy of respect.

      But you, your position as stated, is "obey", and that's the end of it. So really what you're saying is that if your masters -- and face it, that's what you are presenting them as -- say "lick the typhus infected dog crap off my boots", you will kneel down, stick that tongue out, and proceed to shine, shine, shine -- and that you want others to do the same.

      Your way of thinking about this -- "It was illegal, and you shouldn’t do it" -- is fundamentally unsound. Your point of view is blinkered and short-sighted. Your concept of "should" is toxic. When the law is wrong, it is wrong -- and the only sound reason to obey bad law is to protect those you love and your own life from evil, coercive violence from the same source. When law is bad, if you can disobey, you should disobey.

      The only governance worthy of obedience and respect is good governance. Anything else deserves a swift kick in the ass.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  17. Re:You can't trust either group of 1%er mentalitie by witherstaff · · Score: 1

    My local rep is Fred Upton. A number of years ago he was sitting chair of the house telecommunications subcommittee which includes Internet. At that time he was publically in favor of rolling back the '96 telco reform act provision that forced the LEC - the government mandated local monopolies from the breakup of the Bell system (Verizon, Ameritech, etc) - to share their lines because, as he worded it, the bells have no interest in updating their telco system to faster broadband as they were forced to share their lines with competitors. There was even a nice front page newspaper write up praising his wise leadership in helping speed up the Internet. If the Baby Bells could stop worrying about others using their lines they would gladly make things faster. He got his wish when Powell's son running the FCC did just that. Guess what... the baby bells didn't decide to miraculously speed things up. Upton is still in office, guess who's fully backing the legislative answer to this problem? Biggest contributor? Comcast

  18. It's not a free market by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    A free market would permit everyone to operate freely on equal footing, where the biggest players don't automatically get a cut on top of what they already charge.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  19. So Republicans like the taste... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

    ...of Comcast in their mouth. Nice.

  20. Ah so the real goal is going after cities. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

    FTA: "Restricting the FCC's Section 706 powers could also interfere with the commission's plans for preempting state laws that prevent cities and towns from building broadband networks." http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...

    So their masters were worried about cities building their own fiber network.

  21. You can't trust either group of 1%er mentalities. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - Except it IS NECESSARY, DUMMIES.

    No it's not, Bigger Dummy.

    Wow, anti-intellectual arguments are fun!

  22. We definitely need Title II regulation! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Otherwise, RCA and Marconi will use their monopoly power to take over the Internet!

  23. Govt Regulation of the Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, are we starting a pool on how long it takes the govt. to make encrypting your personal communication on their newly regulated network illegal?