Slashdot Mirror
Doxing Victim Zoe Quinn Launches Online "Anti-harassment Task Force"
AmiMoJo writes: On Friday, developer and doxing victim Zoe Quinn launched an online "anti-harassment task force" toolset, staffed by volunteers familiar with such attacks, to assist victims of a recent swell of "doxing" and "swatting" attacks. The Crash Override site, built by Quinn and game developer Alex Lifschitz, offers free services from "experts in information security, white hat hacking, PR, law enforcement, legal, threat monitoring, and counseling" for "victims of online mob harassment."
They have already managed to preemptively warn at least one victim of a swatting attempt in Enumclaw, Washington. As a result, the police department's head e-mailed the entire department to ask any police sent to the address in question to "knock with your hand, not your boot."
They have already managed to preemptively warn at least one victim of a swatting attempt in Enumclaw, Washington. As a result, the police department's head e-mailed the entire department to ask any police sent to the address in question to "knock with your hand, not your boot."
"the police department's head e-mailed the entire department to ask any police sent to the address in question to "knock with your hand, not your boot."
That sounds like appropriate advice for apprx. all addresses.
Slashdot has been fairly in the bag for the SJWs over the whole #gamergate thing, but this is a bit much. Really, we need be a advertizing platform for pet projects of the SJW crowd now? A "gender equality in tech" story 3 days a week wasn't enough? WTF happened to Slashdot? Broad political clickbait was a bit understandable but this is starting to look like a Gawker site.
We miss you Taco, but it's becoming clear why you left.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
you misspelled "doxxing perpetrator"
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
She personifies everything wrong with the gaming media.
Gamergate's Harassment Patrol has been decrying, detecting, and reporting such behavior for months, no matter which side it came from. Glad to see someone from the anti-GG side finally express willingness to follow their lead (this is an anti-harassment operation and not just a partisan anti-Gamergate PR stunt, right?).
Crash Override being the 2nd version of the task force's site. Version 1 was ZeroCool. Zoe will be running under an admin account named AcidBurn.
Don't forget to type cookie.
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
Doesn't mean she deserves harassment. Condemnation maybe. Harassment no.
I can't believe this biased drivel is modded informative. The only evidence that GamerGate is about harassing people are the unsubstantiated claims of certain people who are profiting from the "harassment" amplified and echoed manifold by an agenda pushing media. I implore anyone who reads this to read the actual voices of GamerGate and to withhold judgement until they have. Go to 8ch.net/gamergate and see how many posts support harassment. Look at the ethics policies we've brought about. Look at what we do and not what the media says we do.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
She doxxed and harassed the shit out of people before all of this happened. She's an oldschool SA forum troll. She's no fucking saint.
It's marginally tech related (internet trolls and all that) but it's on Slashdot for the twentieth time because someone is pushing an agenda. I'm about one socjus story from permanently closing my Slashdot account.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Judging by her online postings she doesn't seem all that different to this new wave of internet troll that we're getting these days. A whole lot of name calling, revelling in drama, and taunting her "haterz", and that kind of thing. It's a bit cringeworthy.
curious too. but i've got to say, it's sad, but i find it all too easy to believe all the folks involved in this mess are generally horrible people. most allegations are very likely patent nonsense all around, and yet... i still find myself concluding that i am so glad i don't know any of them, or anyone like them. there aren't two side to annoying dipshit.
For a known harasser, Chelsea Van Valkenberg's quite odd for wanting to stop something she has practiced often.
Never mind that she's more than happy to see that opponents swatted (like Mike Cernovich) or gagged (like Eron Gjoni) - both cases based on falsified information.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Someone made a couple of posts on Wizardchan an off-topic comment about Zoe Quin being the cause of their sorrow and calling for revenge. No one did anything at all. Zoe and her clique got Wizardchan (a lonely guy support group) harrassed by falsely claiming these posts on a site she doesn't even go to were harassment from a hive of terrible neckbeard misogynist nerds.
More? Google "The Fine Young Capitalists" - These are feminists who ran a gamejam to get girls into game development / design and it was shut down by Zoe and her clique of slanderous trolls. The #GamerGate folks of /v/ and /pol/ on 4chan found out (they who supposedly hate women) and so they got the feminist pro-women gamejam funded.
I ask you, Presto Vivance, what evidence have you ever sought out about the #GamerGate affair? Would you believe KKK propaganda that they are fair and just and just want to inform you of the "inherent evils of blackness" without fact checking? No? Then why would you believe SJW propaganda that they are fair and just and just want to inform you of the "inherent evils of maleness" in games without fact checking?
It wouldn't matter if I posted any evidence showing ties to SA forrumites, or links to anything else, since you don't matter, you aren't interested, you don't fact check, can't do a single google search and instead beg for facts on slanted media outlets like Slashdot. But you've got to be kidding me if you think, "She's no fucking saint" isn't spot on.
A quick google search returns the following:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/
http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/2014/12/margaret-pless-zoe-quinn.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2fvt9n/zoe_links_a_doxx_to_wikipedia_editors_who_tried/
I don't make any claim whatsoever about whether thats factual or a fabrication, but Zoe Quinn rises all flags for professional con artist.
I've looked into this too. There are certainly threatening comments on twitter, but these get labelled as "By Gamergate" without any kind of awareness of the association fallacy. A threatening comment is always the responsibility of the individual. There are threatening comments all over social media, and anyone can be a victim of it. The media have been parroting this online harassment as fact without distinguishing it from criticism or just rudeness, and also without any acknowledgement of the same harassment on the other side. Active Gamergate supporters seem to vastly outnumber the anti Gamergate crowd by an order of magnitude, so I wonder if that makes it seem worse.
After 5 months of "GamerGate" there's been no arrests, no serious evidence of any imminent threat published or connection to any organized "harassment" campaign. Gamergate supporters themselves have been harassed, swatted, sent malicious objects in the mail and this is largely ignored in the media. Possibly because many of them took a different approach, and didn't kick up that much of a fuss about it, or perhaps because it doesn't fit the media's narrative.
This is my personal experience only, but the vast majority of gamergate supporters I spoke to were laid back, intelligent, friendly, and positive. There was the same ratio of weird but nice people that you'd find in any group really. However, many of Zoe Quinn's supporters ranged from being rude to abusive to authoritarian. They had an air of mocking superiority that gets old really quickly, and why I stay away from twitter.
She personifies grace under pressure.
really? I would have said she personifies the exact opposite and displays a heap of ignorance in dealing people socially, her responses to some of the attacks on her are what helped escalate the situation. She doesn't seem to understand social media at all or how to handle it.
Doesn't mean she deserves harassment. Condemnation maybe. Harassment no.
Very true, but the same can be said of her victims.
OK, so why do you bring up Gamergate out of the blue? Neither the article above nor any of the things it links to mention it at all.
This is one of those situations like when a stranger on the street walks up to you and says "I'm not drunk!" -- you might not have even had an opinion on the matter before he opened his mouth, but the very act of denying it creates suspicion.
If you want people to not associate Gamergate with harassment, you're shooting yourself in the foot by bringing up Gamergate whenever someone talks about harassment.
Yep, the 'feminist' game jam where the woman involved doesn't learn anything about how to code games at all, and is allowed to just submit an idea while men do all the work for her, because she shouldn't worry her pretty little head about the hard code stuff, right?
The same feminist game jam that she did not, in fact, shut down - she linked to it on Twitter and it went down due to traffic. That hasn't stopped them from trying to exploit that for publicity, of course. /v/ and /pol/ only helped fund it to try and 'gotcha' Zoe in the middle of her being harrassed and threatened by the exact same boards.
Don't have to listen to me though - her side of the story is documented here. It paints a very different picture than your average Gamergate proponent would have you believe.
... So I really don't see why she's in any moral position to judge anyone else that doxxes.
I forget who it was, I think it was a civil rights lawyer from Los Angeles... so we'll hear more about this as that breaks down.
But ol' Zoe has some esplaining to do.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Brianna Wu? Brianna "I don't know when I can return to my home, from whence I am giving this interview" Wu?
The cover-up didn't work.
The week-long gaming press news blackout and user comment/forum censorship didn't work.
The coordinated, ongoing smear campaign that began with the "Gamers are over" articles hasn't worked.
The doxxing and harassment of pro-GG folks hasn't worked.
The endless train of embarrassingly desperate counter-hashtags hasn't worked.
The Wikipedia and Nightline hit pieces only destroy those outlets' credibility for short-term effect.
Last week PC Gamer became the latest games journalism site to update its ethics policy in the wake of Gamergate, joining IGN, the Escapist, and of course Kotaku/Gawker (though in Gawker's case, they put up more of a fight and the Gamergate pressure to be ethical had to be routed through the FTC). And there are probably more I'm forgetting.
Gamergate also got Brad Wardell (CEO of Stardock) some long-overdue apologies for hit pieces run against him:
https://twitter.com/iamDavidWi... [twitter.com]
http://www.gamepolitics.com/20... [gamepolitics.com]
http://www.zenofdesign.com/in-... [zenofdesign.com]
Ask yourself how much of this you've seen reported in the corrupt media (which at this point, sadly, clearly includes Slashdot). The anti-GG side thrives only in an environment of propaganda and censorship, and evaporates when faced with integrity and transparency. They prove the need for Gamergate every time they write an article based on the assumption that terrorism and child porn^W^W^W^W misogyny and harassment have become the root passwords to the Constitution^W^W journalistic ethics.
YouTube: Never read the comments.
Slashdot: Never read the article.
So it is written, so it shall be.
Because it is ZOE QUINN, her entire life is one big shitstorm brawl over gamergate. She fires insults and threats at them, they respond and she claims harassment. everything she is involved with publically in this area is to boost her profile and to keep this whole shitstorm going as without it she sinks back into obscurity. It is kinda amusing and sad really, she has some legitimate complaints, but her complete lack of grace and inability to socially interact with people except in slinging matches completely obscures anything she has to say. She seems to be a truly nasty vicious piece of work that is as bad as those that attack her.
If you want people to not associate Gamergate with harassment, you're shooting yourself in the foot by bringing up Gamergate whenever someone talks about harassment.
Try this: link to the /. article that covers the Gamergate scandal without screaming about misogyny and harassment. You can't. And that's because overall, the Slashdot readership doesn't buy the "misogyny and harassment" narrative for one second. The editors quickly discovered that the discussion thread for any article that straightforwardly mentions Gamergate--even if it's one-sided--couldn't be trusted to go the way the editors demand.
For a while, they found limited success by posting articles with the template "misogyny, harassment, threats, misogyny, harassment, threats . . . oh btw Gamergate" (i.e. a br But even that's not working anymore, and the editors' credibility on this issue is shot. Permanently.
Slashdot wants desperately to cover Gamergate, but doesn't want to be honest and up front that it's doing so, and especially that it's taking the pro-corruption side. In the early weeks, they even tried to participate in the blackout, which led to almost every article about gaming at all becoming a Gamergate thread. The editors/ownership knew damn well what they were doing, and it's silly to blame anyone else for the consequences of refusing to cover Gamergate, except with propaganda.
The "review" is a straw man made up by the very people being protested to try and spin out on a technicality. She very clearly got disproportionately favorable publicity and coverage from Grayson.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
And yet, when they try to get radar so they can see inside houses before/instead of kicking down the door, people react like the fucking sky is falling.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
"Do all the reviewers in "the best presses in the United States" bang the same girl and give her pathetic game good reviews?"
"Can you link to a review of DepressionQuest that Zoe got in exchange for sex?"
"Review? Who said it was a review?"
Are you dense?
Because the radar just gives them the results of kicking the door down without them having to lift a boot. It's not the kicking that people want to stop, it's what the kicking is done for: invading the privacy of their homes, without due process or even the decency to show proof that due process has in fact been done before invading. Cops being able to see into your house from the outside whenever they want is just as bad as cops being able to bust into your house whenever they want. Both breech the expected and due privacy of the home.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The irony in your post is highly amusing. The old everyone that says something different to me is an intolerant ignorant asshole, but I am just a confident person with a view that is different to yours. Your attitude is the problem and sadly I don't think you are capable of even seeing the ignorance and intolerance you are displaying all the while saying how much you hate it.
developer? Please go to her shitty website and show me where she held a developer or programmer position?
doxing victim? She re-tweeted a dox and it was a made-up address but never told her followers. She is known to send herself threats & ddos and will then blame others (TFYC, Wizardchan and now GamerGate). This is what we call a professional victim.
Are you Zoe Quinn or her friend ShitLipz? You pathetic person.
sighborg @TheQuinnspiracy Jan 12
If you continue to be neutral of or in support of gamergate KNOW you're silently approving of attempted murder by cop pic.twitter.com/ehrtTT1eUs
0 replies 330 retweets 141 favorites
Carpet statements like this piss me off... I don't even support doxxing, but oh, because I believe in proper gaming journalism and disagree with forced cultural arm bending to get my group (be it feminists, LGBTs, asexuals, or whatever) included in video games, represented exactly how I want, I'm supporting MURDER. Great.
I'm bisexual, and I wouldn't want support (caveat: from my limited understanding) in the way the so called SJWs seem to believe in. I'm against the tactics of individuals on both sides of the aisle.
I tried to read that page but this is like listening to teenage girls arguing about who saw that pair of jeans first at wal-mart the week before homecoming. The level of mental confusion and social ineptitude displayed in those messages is mind-blowing.
lucm, indeed.
Because no one will listen to any gamergater reporting harassment.
His friend, a woman, said he didn't post it to multiple forums like you suggest. That he wrestled with the decision to even post it in the first place but SHE decided it was best to help others avoid an abusive woman.
The central allegation no-one made?
"They claim it was for a review but there's no review!" is the oldest of the cover-up's lies. It was for EXPOSURE. And in an article on -50- upcoming Twine games, Depression Quest was
a) the only game sourced for a screenshot, despite being an unattractive text adventure
b) used as inspiration for the title of the article
c) mentioned first
In merely ONE of his several articles mentioning what is frankly a cripplingly unimpressive game even for Twine.
So sure, you can count cheating on someone five different times (constituting rape by your personal definition), isolating them from their friends, inducing panic attacks when they rightly suspect your infidelity, and any of the rest of the abusive acts found in the Zoepost as "not a great girlfriend for Eron", I guess implying that some people LIKE being abused?, but that's not really going to remove Grayson's positive coverage for a dev who has cheating with him, it's not going to have her not sleep with an IGDA staffer who is now in bed with a known harasser's anti-harassment (of her friends, I don't trust her involving "white hat hackers", someone who criticized her is getting doxxed inside 3 months GUARANTEED) initiative, and it's not going to have a reddit mod not delete 15,000+ comments after she made the personal request to censor the discussion by email.
It will still be an ongoing consumer revolt regarding the anti-consumer nature of the gaming press as it stands, including its backroom collusion with Silverstring Media and their ideological partners. A lot of the people watchdogging the press now don't even know who Chelsea is. Keep pushing your genetic fallacy though, it certainly created a temporarily effective smokescreen in the beginning.
I don't normally bother using Slashdot, so forgive my lack of login. ThisIsFrigglish on Reddit, if you'd like to follow up directly.
> because the guy never wrote an article about zoe's game! Yes he did. http://wiki.gamergate.me/index... FFS, he's even in the credits for the game. http://theralphretort.com/zoe-...
Confidence is not screaming "I'm a victim" anytime anyone points out she's wrong.
Well, fortunately we don't just have to make judgement calls based on gut feelings on this one.
There's an awful lot of other police forces in the world which don't feel the need to go in in full armour and with guns blazing at the slightest opportunity. For example, I think the US is the only place where a SWAT-like force is used to serve warrants against nonviolent offenders.
The thing is from the point of view of the rest of the world where such things don't happen, it looks awfully messed up.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The money has gone to professional victim Anita Sarkeesian
As someone who's both read "The Zoe Post" and who has been in abusive relationships before (which is ultimately how she came to my attention, not the gaming stuff), let me offer a different perspective.
It seems to me that Quinn was a rather nasty piece of work. Putting aside anything to do with gaming journalism, I'd say she was a full-on sociopath. And it isn't misogyny to point out that she was an emotional abuser. Based on everything I've seen, and lack of refutation on her part, or anyone else's for that matter, to the contrary, I can't even give her the benefit of the doubt.
Now, you can err on the side of "personal business, don't air dirty laundry" here, but the thing about sociopaths is that they know there is always someone around the corner to manipulate.
Maybe what Gjoni did was wrong, and maybe the response to it was disproportionate (and NO, I am not anti-GamerGate; in fact, I have a problem with every single woman who's come out and said "it must be GamerGate" every time they are threatened...I am a believer in personal responsibility, and with that comes assignment of personal responsibility to others as well).
BUT, let me pose this question: how do you fitfully punish a sociopath so that the consequences take real effect? Particularly since emotional abuse is difficult to prosecute and damn near impossible when it's a woman committing the offense (yes, dammit, women CAN be abusers, and it is deeply frustrating when I see so-called "feminists" hide behind "misogyny" and the "weak little woman" stereotype to get out of jail free; it's truly funny how feminism is about equality but not at all about personal responsibility)?
Well, if you let a sociopath know that there's nobody left to manipulate, that they ALL know now what your game is, maybe they have incentive to change, to seek help, to become better people?
It's a dream, of course. It's a dream of abuse victims like me. That abusers have no outlets left. That all potential targets are now on their guard and won't play the game. That abusers get frozen out and realize that it is upon them to change. That there's a true reckoning involved, not more potential victims down the road.
You may not like what Gjoni did, that's certainly your right. But remember, when you deal with sociopaths, the ideal of a polite society flies right out the window.
Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
I'm really tired of that line, "Doesn't mean she deserves harassment"
I've been in GamerGate now for almost six months. What I've seen is people like Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkeesian and Randi Harper harassing people then claiming they're the ones being harassed. Other than Anita Sarkeesian, I'd never heard of any of these other people before GamerGate.
Wu for example, created a twitter account BROLOLZ and used it to mock and harass GamerGate back in the beginning. When no one responded she created the "Oppressed Gamer" meme. Someone took that meme and ran with it, then she claimed people using her meme was harassment. Then she got threats from a zero day twitter account called "DeathToBrianna", there was no mention of GamerGate, but she screen capped it and sent it flying around twitter as evidence GamerGate had a hate on for her, that's what got her on a media tour.
I don't believe anyone deserves harassment, but what I'm seeing is people purposely going in and kicking bee hives, then calling for the extermination of bees when they get stung by a wasp. It's ridiculous, the media is eating it up and plastering it all over as, "these poor, poor innocent souls."
So yeah, I'm about to victim blame. If you poke a bear, it's your fault if you get bitten. I've lost all sympathy for people living under the double standard that it's ok for them to lie, cheat, steal, defame, dox, harass and threaten people, but then turn around and play the victim and advertise their patreons. Check the patreon accounts for anyone of the three I named above:
Randi Harper (antagonist, creator of the GGAutoblocker blocks GamerGate, which is fine. Continues to tweet at GamerGate and bullied an anti-GamerGate person off twitter for not being anti enough):
$2,422.86 a MONTH https://www.patreon.com/freebs...
Zoe Quinn (abuser, antagonist, liar, trust fund baby. Frankly we'd all be happier NOT talking about her because she's not relevant beyond the people that were involved around her [journalist, indi devs, indi judges], but every time she's forgotten she pulls some crap like this article to reinsert herself. She got in a twitter slap fight with Brianna Wu over who was the most harassed):
$4,000 a MONTH https://www.patreon.com/zoe
Brianna Wu (antagonist, liar, trust fund baby. She answered someone questioning her saying GamerGate was only 350 people with, "Thanks for the sexists remark" and accused David Pakman of running a hit piece on her for asking her how she knew it was GamerGate harassing her:
$13,000 a MONTH https://www.patreon.com/user?u...
^ this ^ is what a professional victim looks like.
I got into GamerGate because I was tired of the media BS about gamers being cis-white-male shitlord misogynerds. I won't lie, in the beginning, I didn't think GamerGate was important, it's about frigg'n video games. I thought it'd be like a week long thing, we'd write some letters to advertisers and the journalist involved would just apologize for being idiots, but it's just been one thing after another after another. The opposition to GamerGate is full of ex-neo-naizs (Ian Miles Cheong), pedophiles (Shara Butts), animal abuses (Randi Harper, Shara Butts), rape apologists (Author Chu) and professional victims (Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, Zoe Quinn, Randi Harper, Grace Lynn) all sexists, racist, homophobic, hateful people who pretend to have the high moral ground because they alone are allowed to speak for women and minorities (Look up #NotYourShiled). All pointing fingers at a largely harmless group of people that are just tired of being demonized for a hobby that doesn't hurt anyone, and the media eats it up. You can look into the background of just about any of the major GamerGate "targets" and se
When Islamist terrorists murder people we expect Muslims to respond. It was done in the name of their religion. They could try to stop it, they could argue strongly against it. It's blackening the name of their religion, after all. When they don't they receive criticism for it.
In the same way, if you head over to 8chan's GamerGate board you won't see many "real" GamerGaters trying to steer things in a more productive direction. Like it or not, your argument is basically the No True Scotsman one. If you really care about what you claim the GamerGate issues really are you should either try to fix GamerGate or do what other groups, particularly religions, do in this situation and split off with a new identity. Like it or not GamerGate is what 8chan is using, and they seem to be dominating at the moment.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
They do have to follow due process with radar. The Supreme Court ruling that guarantees you need a warrant (or exigent circumstances) is old enough to date. Or listen to Justin Beiber. Or whatever teenager-related thing you want to use. I understand that most people assume the worst, but there's definitely a legal requirement that exists that people assume doesn't.
Neither the radar nor the kicking isn't being done to invade privacy. The kicking is being done because they believe there is an armed assailant attacking the family, and they are coming to help. I don't know what world you want to live in where "dear police, please help keep someone from killing me" gets a response of "I'm sorry, that would interfere with your civil liberties to... fight the invaders off yourself."
At least with the radar, the police are less likely to have to bust down the door. At least with the radar, the police^H^H^H^H^H SWAT team is less likely to get surprised rounding a corner and shoot someone. Heck, it may even turn more attempted SWATings into "hostage negotiation"ings.
Bottom line: When someone calls 911, the police are supposed to respond. We can obviously say that bad responses are bad. But you need to provide a better alternative solution. Because otherwise, what you are arguing for is "the police shouldn't respond to 911 calls". And I think you have an insurmountable burden to demonstrate that, and haven't even begun to attempt to meet that burden.
(To preempt a deliberate misreading:) Not that people should be forced to rely on the police, they should be able to defend themselves. But some people opting to defend themselves shouldn't release society (thru the police) from an obligation to assist.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
"seem like"
There's the problem there. The burden of proof for "seeming" is pathetically low, and yet the police create huge risks to the lives of the people they raid, and their own lives, by acting on such impressions.
Rather than a wall of text claiming to refute his claim, how about you link to twitter harassment that is actually able to be tied to gamergate instead of just saying that they are tied to gamergate. The claim was that harassment was being falsely attributed to gamergate, and you attributed harassment to gamergate without any evidence to back it up. If there is so much evidence that gamergate people support harassment, it should be quite easy to post links to it.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
This...this is so horribly uninformed. Yes, there are technically warrants issued for all of the raids, but they're rubber stamped and even can go get a warrant AFTER they already shot up your home just to cover their ass. We went from around 50 SWAT raids per year in the 80's to dozens PER DAY in the present, you cannot possibly be such a boot-licker that you think the current "Send in a two dozen man hit squad, guns blazing and don't even check the address, every time someone thinks of a bong or other activity" is okay.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson