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The American App Economy Is Now "Bigger Than Hollywood"

Lemeowski writes Technology business analyst Horace Deidu found an interesting nugget while closely examining an Apple press release from earlier this year: "The iOS App Store distributed $10 billion to developers in 2014, which, Deidu points out, is just about as much as Hollywood earned off U.S. box office revenues the same year." That means the American app industry is poised to eclipse the American film industry. Additionally, Apple says its App Store has created 627,000 jobs, which Deidu contrasts with the 374,000 jobs Hollywood creates

135 comments

  1. Bad comparaison by MouseR · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They are comparing a global economy (Apps) to a local US market.

    What's the profit of global Hollywood sales?

    1. Re:Bad comparaison by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2

      They are comparing a global economy (Apps) to a local US market.

      If you want to make an Apples to apples comparison (pun intended) when talking about jobs, you'd have to take into account all of the jobs created by European, Bollywood, etc. film industry.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:Bad comparaison by jofas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, it's a bit of a 90s way to measure Hollywood revenue to look at "box office" sales.

    3. Re:Bad comparaison by telchine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Call me a sceptic if you like; but I read the summary like this...

      Apple says this in a press release. Hollywood can provably be seen to have done this but not as well.
      Apple says that in a press release, Hollywood can provably be seen to have done that but not as well.

      Since when did Slashdot become a place for Apple press releases to be hyped up more than they are already?

      This is a Slashvertisment... Someone needs to create an ad blocker for these kinds of things!

    4. Re:Bad comparaison by telchine · · Score: 2

      If you want to make an Apples to apples comparison (pun intended) when talking about jobs

      Was the "jobs" pun intended as well?

    5. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      And only U.S. box office, which does not take into account foreign distribution, as well as other forms of revenue such as DVD sales and licensing.

      Apple doesn't know how many jobs its App Store has created, it is using pure statistical formulas to get its numbers. The Hollywood numbers, which extends beyond the Los Angeles area since most productions happen throughout the country, are drawn from the reported jobs from the associated trade unions.

    6. Re:Bad comparaison by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 1, Funny

      If you want to make an Apples to apples comparison (pun intended) when talking about jobs

      Was the "jobs" pun intended as well?

      Double pun, if we add in the pornography industry.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    7. Re:Bad comparaison by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      They are comparing a global economy (Apps) to a local US market.

      What's the profit of global Hollywood sales?

      You might also note this is going entirely off Apple's numbers. We haven't added the money from the markets of Android and other platforms.

    8. Re: Bad comparaison by muirhead · · Score: 1

      You are a sceptic.

    9. Re:Bad comparaison by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Apple knows how many developer accounts they have, I'm guessing they're going with that number.

    10. Re:Bad comparaison by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Which way? The US app store (locked down to US residents) is global, and the hollywood global receipts are domestic?

      Part of the problem is comparing gross Hollywood with net Appstore. And just one appstore at that.

      I agree that the comparison is bad, but your implication that it's skewed to make apps look large is the opposite of the actual skew.

    11. Re:Bad comparaison by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Apple says this in a press release.

      Apple is a public company. There are significant penalties for misrepresenting their financial situation.

    12. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US app store may be locked to US residents, but there is an Apple App Store for damn near every country, and both TFA and TFPR are clear that the $10 billion App Store figure is global, while the $10 billion box office domestic. Global box office revenue is in the $30 billion dollar range, and if you want to make the claim that something is "bigger than Hollywood" you need to account for box office+blu ray/DVD+streaming+TV licensing+merchandising, so you can probably double that again.

    13. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hollywood has long trumpeted itself as one of the largest industries in the world, but as one of my lecturers pointed out, they're not larger than engineering, construction, insurance, and a whole raft of others.

      Hollywood really aren't that big, but they do wield social and political power far in excess of what they should.

    14. Re:Bad comparaison by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 1

      Regardless of whether the "App-economy" alone is larger than the "Movie-economy", I think this is indicative of how strong and important the "software-economy" is in comparison to the MPAA-dominated industries. But it makes you wonder why - given the strength of the former - why are software publishers and hardware manufacturers still allowing the MPAA to dominate them with demands for ever-stronger DRM? My optical drive shouldn't have firmware made to obey the regional-restrictions of the movie industry, and my video-hardware shouldn't have to downgrade the signal if all the attached hardware hasn't been blessed by the MPAA. TFA is proof that the software industry can well survive without kowtowing to Hollywood's demands; I'm not sure the movie industry, on the other hand, would do so well if Microsoft or Apple told them to ditch the DRM requirements or take a hike.

      Of course, the big difference is that all the major Hollywood players have united their voice under one banner (the MPAA) while the software industry remains fragmented. This gives the former an appearance of strength that the software industry doesn't - and may not even be aware they - have.

    15. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hollywood sales range from selling cinema tickets, merchandising, broadcast fees for cable and satellite networks and video DVD sales across the world. For both industries, ones companies overhead is another companies gross revenue. There are concept designers, artists, engineers, producers, managers, directors.

    16. Re:Bad comparaison by machineghost · · Score: 1

      And every registered developer is making a living from building apps? There's not a single developer who just does it as a hobby?

    17. Re:Bad comparaison by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      What's the profit of global Hollywood sales?

      About minus $50 trillion... supposedly.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    18. Re:Bad comparaison by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      According to the Hollywood accountants somewhere in the negative range and yet for some inexplicable reason they still keep functioning. Something to do with tax havens, sexually compliant starlets and perverted politicians but as yet taxation agencies from around the globe have still not managed to figure it all out after decades of trying. Apparently it is easier to gouge the rest of us at the tax office to pay for their subsidies and the free ride they get on the infrastructure we pay for, whilst they cheat us on the social services they should be paying for.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    19. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None! Otherwise they would have to pay tax instead of getting subsidies

    20. Re: Bad comparaison by HappyDrgn · · Score: 1

      If you want their content you play by their rules for distribution.

      This isent a problem for the software industry to solve, it's a legal one over personal use of paid content. Collectively us consumers can potentially solve it via litigation, voting for increased personal rights for digital content or with our dollars; if you don't like it, don't buy it. The majority of consumers are lazy and / or don't care however, so it'll never change. Outside slashdot you don't actually hear most average joes complaining about region locking or DRM, it dosent affect their ability to play a bluray disc on a bluray player they bought at Walmart so why should they?

    21. Re:Bad comparaison by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Hollywood is (unfortunately) definitely global, so it's quite a valid comparison. Hollywood new releases surface in other countries the same time as in the US.

    22. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or an interesting side note: at $10B, the average per worker income for the "App industry" is ~$16k if the employment number is to be belived. Hardly a livable wage.

    23. Re:Bad comparaison by Rennt · · Score: 1

      Public filings are not the same as a press release. Companies are free to lie as much as they like as long as it's not to a regulator.

    24. Re:Bad comparaison by penix1 · · Score: 1

      Apple is a public company. There are significant penalties for misrepresenting their financial situation.

      Press release != financial statement. Many (read most) companies tend to overblow their own accomplishments in press releases while being more (not fully) conservative in their financial statements.

      --
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    25. Re:Bad comparaison by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Companies are free to lie as much as they like as long as it's not to a regulator.

      Not true. Even a press release cannot contain materially false financial information. It can contain puffery, and hype, but it cannot contain outright false financial information about revenue or profits. Public companies are not allowed to lie to the public about their finances.

    26. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you divide the claimed 10 billion dollars by the claimed 600,000 jobs, you get 16,000 dollars per job. That's much lower than the average developer's salary.

      If every dollar of those 10 billion went to paying salaries and every salary was about the US median which is about 50,000 dollars, it would be 200,000 jobs.

      So they may have inflated their jobs figure by around half an order of magnitude.

    27. Re: Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most people want more and better movies and are more or less content with the prices they need to pay.

      They don't really understand that copyright means George Lucas gets to make shitty prequels. They don't really understand that, outside of a few name brands like George Lucas, the people they think of as owning something aren't the ones who actually own it. They don't really understand how movies are made or think about what changes in copyright would mean for how movies are made. And they have other things to worry about.

      And so they don't vote for politicians who will make changes that they would be interested in seeing if they knew and cared more about the issue. Meanwhile, politicians absolutely need to be on the good sides of the news media, which is tightly connected to the entertainment media.

    28. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And every registered developer is making a living from building apps? There's not a single developer who just does it as a hobby?

      And there are no companies sharing a single "developer account"?

    29. Re:Bad comparaison by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      They are comparing a global economy (Apps) to a local US market.

      What's the profit of global Hollywood sales?

      not even that, they are comparing a global market to a subset of the Hollywood's US market (US boxoffice).

    30. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are comparing a global economy (Apps) to a local US market.

      If you want to make an Apples to apples comparison (pun intended) when talking about jobs, you'd have to take into account all of the jobs created by European, Bollywood, etc. film industry.

      Why would you, when the quoted jobs number is "in the US alone"? Talk about Apples to bitter lemons.

    31. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, it's a bit of a 90s way to measure Hollywood revenue to look at "box office" sales.

      So? He was only comparing the numbers Apple said they paid out. Even ignoring Android, that doesn't include ad income not from iAds (which is only a small part of app-ad revenue), nor any other income related to apps, like merchandise - Apple sees shit from sales of Angry Birds paraphernalia - or services or subscriptions not sold as in-app purchases.

      Anyway, just look at the chart, and tell me what you think it will look like next year: http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-22-at-1-22-11.30.06-AM.png

    32. Re:Bad comparaison by G-forze · · Score: 1

      That's pretty good, if you live in India.

      --
      "There's someone in my head but it's not me." - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
    33. Re:Bad comparaison by drkstr1 · · Score: 1

      If you divide the claimed 10 billion dollars by the claimed 600,000 jobs, you get 16,000 dollars per job. That's much lower than the average developer's salary.

      If every dollar of those 10 billion went to paying salaries and every salary was about the US median which is about 50,000 dollars, it would be 200,000 jobs.

      So they may have inflated their jobs figure by around half an order of magnitude.

      You can miss out on some good stuff if you don't browse the AC comments :)

      --
      Fanboy Status: Apache Flex, C#, Eclipse, KDE, Pirate Party, Ron Paul, Slackware, Windows 7
    34. Re:Bad comparaison by gnupun · · Score: 1

      If you divide the claimed 10 billion dollars by the claimed 600,000 jobs, you get 16,000 dollars per job. That's much lower than the average developer's salary.

      Most of that $10B probably goes to big name freemium game companies who make tons of money from in-app purchases of digital goods. So if you subtract big-game dev income, you'd end up with something like $5,000 to $10,000 per independent developer.

      Apple should release how much of that $10B goes to independent developers.

    35. Re:Bad comparaison by sh00z · · Score: 1

      They are comparing a global economy (Apps) to a local US market.

      If you want to make an Apples to apples comparison (pun intended) when talking about jobs, you'd have to take into account all of the jobs created by European, Bollywood, etc. film industry.

      then, you also need to include the other app stores as well (Google Play, Amazon, Windows)

    36. Re:Bad comparaison by nmr_andrew · · Score: 1

      What's the profit of global Hollywood sales?

      Based on Hollywood accounting? Something in the vicinity of zero./sarcasm

    37. Re:Bad comparaison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you divide the claimed 10 billion dollars by the claimed 600,000 jobs, you get 16,000 dollars per job. That's much lower than the average developer's salary.

      If every dollar of those 10 billion went to paying salaries and every salary was about the US median which is about 50,000 dollars, it would be 200,000 jobs.

      So they may have inflated their jobs figure by around half an order of magnitude.

      You can miss out on some good stuff if you don't browse the AC comments :)

      Like the fact that the "claimed 10 billion dollars" don't include anything that didn't go through Apple, which not only includes revenue through advertisements, but more importantly not the salary/rates for employed or contracted developers (IOW people with actual JOBS, not hobby programmers) developing things like hardware supporting apps, official apps like the Facebook app, or free apps that get paid by the services they provide an interface to.

  2. And if you count the 30% Apple kept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's much bigger.

    1. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by tbuddy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Though the 30% is a pretty big chunk, it's nothing compared to the $11 trillion Hollywood loses on piracy every year. They've done studies and it's pretty clear that piracy costs them all the money ever times infinity.

    2. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by ZipK · · Score: 1

      Though the 30% is a pretty big chunk, it's nothing compared to the $11 trillion Hollywood loses on piracy every year. They've done studies and it's pretty clear that piracy costs them all the money ever times infinity.

      Not just infinity, an uncountable infinity.

    3. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Not just infinity, an uncountable infinity.

      Don't be ridiculous. Money is discrete, so an infinite amount of money would be Aleph Null, which is countable.

    4. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using Hollywood accounting, EVERY film looses money.

      So 11 trillion is nonsense.

    5. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just infinity, an uncountable infinity.

      Don't be ridiculous. Money is discrete, so an infinite amount of money would be Aleph Null, which is countable.

      Technically, since we are in the age of fiat currency, money is no longer restricted to be discrete (although in practice it generally is rounded to a small fraction of a penny at most).

    6. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So I could pay pi dollars for a pie?

    7. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to be fair to the industry, they do only mean Aleph 1 infinity, and not Aleph-, which is (sort of) infinitely larger than aleph 1. now THAT would be bit of an exaggeration!

    8. Re:And if you count the 30% Apple kept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whoops, thats aleph-W, symbol didnt translate.

  3. Re: Frosty pist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    APParently it doesnt work

  4. Time To Kick Some MPAA Ass? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure would be fun!

  5. And yet... by substance2003 · · Score: 1

    Wasn't there a bunch of articles lately explaining how much of these app developers aren't making any return because of how difficult it is to be seen on the store or how most users don't really use much of these apps once the hype passes.

    1. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you crunch the numbers, $10bln across 627,000 jobs is approximately $16,000 per job. Not exactly hot stuff unless you live in the developing world.

    2. Re:And yet... by tysonedwards · · Score: 2

      Yes, there was... The key talking points of said article was how the barrier for entry in creating a successful title was in the six figures, and months of effort. No longer is App Development on Mobile with simple titles produced by a single person can be an overnight ticket to millionaire status as was the case with the early days with Trism and it's comrades.

      However, the same can be said of the film industry, where successful releases requires teams of people and significant upfront investment, except usually with a zero or two added to the end of that figure and more people than a typical app or game.

      --
      Thirty four characters live here.
    3. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That there "Flappy Bird" made a ton of money, and would have kept making a ton of money had the creator not freaked out and took it down. It was made alone, and didn't take long at all to make.

    4. Re:And yet... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      And most of that goes to the top 0.1% of apps. The average app developer makes less than minimum wage (often much less).

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought about this, and there are some jobs that result in 0 revenue from Apple, but are still worth it. Take car insurance apps for instance. You don't pay for it, but your car insurance company is paying someone to make the app.

      I don't know about advertising on iOS apps, but I some developer revenue is from 3rd party advertising systems. There's also the Facebook app, Google's slew of apps, and a lot of other apps that don't profit through Apple's payment system. Whether that raises the per developer income by peanuts or more for apps relying on income from Apple is another question.

    6. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That there "Flappy Bird" made a ton of money, and would have kept making a ton of money had the creator not freaked out and took it down. It was made alone, and didn't take long at all to make.

      There are movies that cost nearly nothing to make and brought in shiploads of money, e.g. Blair Witch.

      And Flappy Bird wouldn't show up in the numbers for Apps, since it's advertisement generated revenue wasn't going through an app store.

    7. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, there was... The key talking points of said article was how the barrier for entry in creating a successful title was in the six figures, and months of effort. No longer is App Development on Mobile with simple titles produced by a single person can be an overnight ticket to millionaire status as was the case with the early days with Trism and it's comrades.

      I've read other articles talking about while a single person can still write a good simple app that is worth making a million bucks, there are too many single developers out there that will instantly duplicate their efforts and split the market. A large bit of the equation is that it could be that it is only the six figure titles that can't be duplicated easily and have their market divided up between knock off apps.

  6. Not even close by metrix007 · · Score: 2

    Movies still far outpace TV sales, especially if you include TV.

    The reported incomes are lies, due to Hollywood accounting.

    --
    If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    1. Re:Not even close by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      Dammit I previewed and everything. I meant movie sales still far outpace app sales.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
  7. Uh oh, NOW you've done it... by NotDrWho · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Soon, James Cameron will rip his shirt off, scream "NOT FOR LONG, MOTHERFUCKERS!" and return from a week-long free-dive of the Titanic to direct a new blockbuster that will dominate the world in a way that YOUR LITTLE MIND CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE!

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:Uh oh, NOW you've done it... by mwn3d · · Score: 1

      James Cameron does not do what James Cameron does for money.... James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is....James Cameron

    2. Re:Uh oh, NOW you've done it... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is

      Already filthy rich.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Uh oh, NOW you've done it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No budget too steep, no sea too deep!
      Who's that?
      It's him, James Cameron!

  8. Even with... by AlCapwn · · Score: 1

    ...Hollywood accounting practices? I doubt it.

  9. Different headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone thinks you make tons of money in hollywood...

    So the better headline here is probably:

    "Want to make half as much as you would in Hollywood? Become a mobile app developer"

  10. Wait... by eudas · · Score: 1

    Did they include all the aspiring actors/actresses working as waiters in that estimate?

    --
    Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
    1. Re:Wait... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Do I get counted as an astronaut as I'm waiting for NASA to call me up? Or as a porn star in case one of the starlets decides she wants a hunka hunka burning nerd for a quicky?

      Does wishing you had another job cause you to count towards the statistics of that job?

      I honestly don't think "wannabee" counts towards these things. :-P

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were counted for the jobs headcount, but not counted for the MPAA's money side as McDonalds and Pizza Hut are payrolling that.

    3. Re:Wait... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't think "wannabee" counts towards these things. :-P

      There are a lot of professional actors that still wait tables. You can be SAG, book semi-regular walk-ons on TV and the occasional film and still need a second gig-- people wait tables, but they also code, sell stuff on Etsy, write, work as realtors...

      Even really successful actors end up having a lot of free time, Josh Brolin is known for, apart from acting, being a really successful high-frequency trader in the mid-aughts.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    4. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Josh Brolin is known for, apart from acting, being a really successful high-frequency trader in the mid-aughts.

      Yeah, but is he using both hands?

      idv

  11. 627,000 jobs, are they real? by k6mfw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are many that create apps and have them for sale at Apple, but do they make a living from these sales? There was an article saying App store is more like a casino. House always collects revenue, almost all participants lose money but a few make some money. Article went on about how everyone has to pay $100 to submit their app to Apple Store, and most apps have little sales. Occasionally some apps have huge sales (i.e. Angry Birds) and developers make lots of money. I wonder if same like Hollywood says it creates 374,000 jobs but does that include people working at theaters making marginal income, or starving actors who occasionally get a stand-in part for $50?

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
    1. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      It's a filter. When a developer says they can make an iDevice app, Apple basically says "oh yeah, ok, pay up or shut up". Meaning, suffer the consequences for creating another me-too far app.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But in reality the GP is right, only a very tiny percentage ( less than 1% ) actually make a living wage.

    3. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      I don't except that Programming is "Bigger than Hollywood" until we have people saying they are programmers while the bulk of their income comes from waiting tables, and I have to sleep with my Employer to get a job interview.

      I WISH the process were that simple.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    4. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But in reality the GP is right, only a very tiny percentage ( less than 1% ) actually make a living wage.

      Same goes for people working "in the movies".

    5. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Well, I have this accountant from Hollywood and he says that that movies make no money at all. Nothing.

      And people working in hollywood? I met a lot of actresses while I visit places like Hooters and McDonalds.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    6. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I wonder how they came up with the 627,000 figure as well. Number of licences sold * average number of programmers per app maybe? Some people shit out apps all day long, ending up with hundreds or even thousands in the App Store in the hope that one makes it big. When are are 100,000 other flashlight/advertising apps the only way to have any hope of being picked is to create 1000 slightly different flashlight/advertising apps of your own.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:627,000 jobs, are they real? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Maybe Hollywood should be run that way too?

      Oh wait... it is :)

      I wonder if the Apple numbers factor in jobs for set designers, truck drivers, people who work the cell phone booths in the shopping malls, etc?

  12. Hollywood doesn't make its money at the box office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't make sense to compare App Store revenue to merely one of the many ways the MPAA gouges America.

  13. What a commercial... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now apps are something apple exclusive. Ok, I get it.

  14. 15K per job in App economy by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

    Hollywood job pays on average 27K. (Using the numbers in the summary). Hollywood pay distributed very unequally. A few mega stars and peanuts for the bit players. The App distribution is much more broad, compared to Hollywood anyway. Without these super mega paychecks and glamor it will not get much of media play.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:15K per job in App economy by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Hollywood job pays on average 27K. (Using the numbers in the summary).

      I'm not sure about the methodology in the summary, but if you look at the scale rates for most Hollywood entertainment unions you'll see the weekly rates even for entry-level job classifications will be around $2000/week. Actors are only a small part of the puzzle and they aren't really representative of the entire employment picture of the film industry. For every professional actor in the film industry there's gotta be a dozen people in behind-the-scenes crew positions.

      Even then I'm not really sure how much more "broad" the App economy is, since it seems to be dominated by "star" apps, particularly in gaming, productivity and social networks. Also consider that Apple takes a 30% agency fee for all apps while CAA and William Morris Endeavor only take 10% of their client's salary, and even then Hollywood talent agents are seen as the acme of largess and venality.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    2. Re:15K per job in App economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also consider that Apple takes a 30% agency fee for all apps while CAA and William Morris Endeavor only take 10% of their client's salary, and even then Hollywood talent agents are seen as the acme of largess and venality.

      But unlike the quoted number being what Apple paid to developers (and thus excludes the 30%), the provisions the actors pay go from what they get from the studios. Also Google, Microsoft, Amazon et al take the same fucking 30%.

  15. Fitting by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    The real Justin B crashes cars, and the Justin B app crashes phones.

  16. Quick, form up for the next **AA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Follow the money boys!
    Someone is going to form the Application Developers Arts Association (ADAA), joining the ranks of MPAA and RIAA. In 5 years or less the stated goal is to have fines of $34.14 x10^8 or more for even looking at the wrong app on the wrong phone at the wrong time. Its a brilliant business plan! ProfiiiT...

  17. And the Chinese biggest of all! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the Chinese economy is bigger than the American economy.

    How about that comparison?

    1. Re:And the Chinese biggest of all! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It isn't, however. The US still has the largest economy in the world by GNP.

      Well... the EU, if you aren't talking about single countries, but the US is still a close second to all of the EU, and China is third.

  18. WTF is "the app economy"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The software industry has ALWAYS been bigger than hollywood, or at least since the '80s. "App" is just a weirdo word that was created to define programs for smartphones and tablets. And I still refuse to name them that way.

    1. Re:WTF is "the app economy"? by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 1

      App is just short for application and application has always been the preferred word to describe end user software. A program is just a list of instructions.

      --
      Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
  19. Liars figure and figures lie by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Subtract out the top 1% of pay to play games and quite a different story will reveal itself.

    Case in point, Clash of Clans makes $500,000 per day and it is well known that Apple commands the overwhelming majority of mobile app $$$ volume. If you add in the revenue from the top 100 "freemium" pay-to-play games that $10 billion figure is going to shrink very, very quickly.

    A handful of Freemium games are the top payouts, with almost the 99.999% of the rest making near 0.

    --
    Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    1. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But another thing this may not be counting on is advertising. While the iApp culture is less prone to advertising there is still a good deal of it. Sure, it might not be enough to make a living on but if we're exclusively by App Store sales then the number is a bit lower than what it should be. While an app with ads in it may not be making the developer a living I can see it being enough to maintain the costs and pay out a bit at the end too. Not bad considering the number of "me too" apps and apps that I would never expect to make any money on because of niche markets with little screen time (the app I use for Iridium flares comes to mind in this space).

    2. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I p(l)ay Game of War, and there are plenty of people there that pay literally thousands of dollars to become powerful. It's nuts.

    3. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why I think we should mandate changes. Not sure how many, if any, are in place.

      For in-app purchases...
      A PIN should always be required to complete the transaction
      A running total should be displayed, perhaps by to-date and month-to-date, for the individual app.
      And a special wallet you load money into, so it takes a bit of effort. No more directly debiting debit/credit cards assuming that's the current case.
      A requirement that any app that uses in-app purchases to display that it does in the advertisements, and how it works. Whether to advance gameplay, cosmetic changes, or both.

    4. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Case in point, Clash of Clans makes $500,000 per day and it is well known that Apple commands the overwhelming majority of mobile app $$$ volume. If you add in the revenue from the top 100 "freemium" pay-to-play games that $10 billion figure is going to shrink very, very quickly.

      It depends, actually.

      On iOS, a developer is far better off making an ad-free app and selling it for money in the App Store.

      On Android, though, the situation is a developer will not make money this way - instead, the better way to make money is to give away your app for free and pay for it via in-app ads. You'll make far more money this way, and be able to rape your customer's devices for information (something iOS asks permission for - an app can't access the contact list without the user knowing).

      So on IOS, sell your app to make money, no ads.
      On Android, give away your app and sell ads.

      I don't have statistics on in-app purchases though if I had to guess, I would say Android makes more money because of bigger audience.

      A game like Clash of Clans may make half a million a day, but the split is probably 1:3 iOS:Android because there would be more Android users, and assuming they're just as likely to pay up.

    5. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Bogtha · · Score: 2

      It's true that the majority of the profits in App Store sales is focused at the extreme top, but it's not true that 99.999% of the rest make "near 0". This analysis estimates that the top 3,175 applications earn at least the average annual income for a US household per year, and applications that rank about number 6000 still earn $25K/yr.

      And that's only counting App Store revenue. I've earned a lot more than average since I started developing for iOS, and most of the applications I've worked on are free. You don't see things like banking applications earn revenue directly, but the developers responsible certainly profit from it. The Facebook application is free, but you don't think its developers are working on it for free do you? I've been paid to built plenty of enterprise applications that will never appear in the App Store.

      There is a huge amount of profit in the "app economy" that will never be accounted for merely by looking at App Store profits. The "app economy" is much bigger than the App Store.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    6. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      (something iOS asks permission for - an app can't access the contact list without the user knowing).

      I know this may come as a shock, but Android permissions are much the same, except the ask is before you even install the app. (If an application requires access to personal contacts, the Play Store installer tells me that and gives me the option to not install it.)

      Whether the permissions are granular enough is a separate question, but in this occasion the functionality of the devices is about the same.

    7. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 1

      I was taking on that $10 billion number, which a hefty piece of it is gaming/casual gaming in-App purchases --- meaning that kids (Clash of Clans, Simpsons Tapped Out, etc.) are using iPhones/iPads instead of a Nintendo DS/Sony Playstation Portable -- which is a shift of leisure activity to Apple. With Candy Crush + company being targeted towards adult casual gaming.

      Sure, the mobile app ecosystem is a few times larger than Apple's AppStore revenue.

      I wanted to point out were that revenue is going.

      Your hockey stick chart http://metakite.com/wp-content... shows this.

      Your chart appears to zero out +/- at 6000 apps, 1.3 million apps in the Apple App Store so 1299400 are making almost nothing which is 0.999538 or 99.9538% ...

      So "almost 99.999% making 'near zero'" vs. 99.9538% ---- I think I was pretty close!

      --
      Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    8. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      Apple pays out 67%. That's on Gross.

      If they were to perhaps, talk about the expense of promotion, servers, and the fact that all the toys for Whack-A-Mole ended up in lawsuits, they could use Hollywood accounting. It would still be 67%, but of the net -- which means cab fair instead of money to buy the Limo.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    9. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by sribe · · Score: 1

      A handful of Freemium games are the top payouts, with almost the 99.999% of the rest making near 0.

      Wrong. The curve is sharp, but it's not anywhere near that bad. See here,

    10. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by sribe · · Score: 1

      ...and assuming they're just as likely to pay up.

      Which is not even remotely true.

    11. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by sribe · · Score: 1

      So "almost 99.999% making 'near zero'" vs. 99.9538% ---- I think I was pretty close!

      Well, if you consider being off by 47x pretty close and you consider $25,000/year to be zeroing out, then yeah you were right ;-)

    12. Re:Liars figure and figures lie by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      the functionality of the devices is about the same

      It's very different. On Android, you have to decide whether to grant permission before you've ever run the application, and it's all or nothing. On iOS, you run the application before deciding whether or not to grant it permission. You have the ability to deny permission while still running the application. You can also allow permission for some things but not others.

      This functionality is partially available to Android users who root their phones and install the right tools, but that's far from the common case.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  20. Are they real jobs? by sideslash · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Keep in mind that many app developers put a huge amount of time and effort into developing their apps and publishing them, and then only see a small trickle of income. They just hover at the edges of the app economy desperately trying to catch their big break, while watching the big stars like Rovio rake in huge paychecks every day. Often they have to work side jobs like waiting tables to pay the bills while they dream of becoming stars in their own right. And sadly, the statistics suggest that most of them won't ever make it big.

    Contrast that to Hollywood, where... uhh, nevermind. Carry on.

    1. Re:Are they real jobs? by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that many app developers put a huge amount of time and effort into developing their apps and publishing them, and then only see a small trickle of income.

      And many others have sense enough to go work for a company that has benefits and resources and make an easy $100K+ a year....

    2. Re:Are they real jobs? by sribe · · Score: 1

      Often they have to work side jobs like waiting tables to pay the bills...

      Yeah, right, app developers waiting tables. What bullshit.

  21. This is wrong by wizkid · · Score: 1

    The App's market is way smaller then hollywood
    Just ask Congress!

    https://www.opensecrets.org/in...

    --
    I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong :)
    1. Re:This is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or.. the other way to look at it is...

      how much would you pay for an app? nothing. i dont buy apps, because i dont use smartphones.

      how much would you pay to see a first run film from a major studio? nothing. i dont go to movies, i wait for them on television just like the old days before the internets.

      so in that regard, neither one of them is as big of a business as quikymart, simply because we buy a loaf of $1.49 bread there every week and fill up the car with fuel every 2-3 weeks.

    2. Re:This is wrong by DanielOom · · Score: 1

      At least the screens are smaller.
      The problem with the article is in the assumption that the App Store of the Americal Apple company sells only software that was written in the U.S. of A.

    3. Re:This is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least the screens are smaller. The problem with the article is in the assumption that the App Store of the Americal Apple company sells only software that was written in the U.S. of A.

      No it doesn't

      Put another way, in 2014 iOS app developers earned more than Hollywood did from box office in the US.

  22. Re:"loses ON piracy" - LOL. American idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try learning how to write your own language properly.

    u MAD bro??!!!!

  23. Re:"loses ON piracy" - LOL. American idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If it's your own language, you can write it however you want.

  24. We need to see income distribution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much of this money apps are making goes to corporations, and how much to individual developers? How many of the jobs created are at corporations (and consultants hired by corporations) and how much do these people get paid? Giving us a lump sum payout is meaningless unless we know how this money is distributed. What are the odds that someone could create an app and break even (remember you have to buy a Mac for development, buy devices to test on, and pay Apple to publish your app, and then give Apple a cut)? I would say as close to zero as possible, like in calculus where you take the limit approaching zero.

  25. not comparing apple with apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    App revenue: Worldwide
    Hollywood revenue: Only US, only box office.

    App store created jos: Includes developer jobs (that is what mainly it is)
    Hollywood job creation: Ignores the jobs created at box office

  26. Re:"loses ON piracy" - LOL. American idiot. by tbuddy · · Score: 4, Funny

    We helped the French during World War 2 so they wouldn't have to speak German. The French helped us during the American Revolution so we wouldn't have to speak English.

  27. Re:"loses ON piracy" - LOL. American idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The French! They have a different word for everything.

  28. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  29. True for me, anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My app has made over $3000 so far.

    My films have grossed nearly $100.

    I spent less time on the app.

  30. Re:"loses ON piracy" - LOL. American idiot. by oldmac31310 · · Score: 2

    You are correct. Their word for everything is 'tout'

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  31. Stupid comparison by markdavis · · Score: 1

    Deidu points out, is just about as much as Hollywood earned off U.S. box office revenues the same year." That means the American app industry is poised to eclipse the American film industry.

    Um, except Hollywood doesn't earn as much from US box office as it does from these:

    * NON-US box office
    * Disc sales
    * Rental fees
    * Merchandising rights

    So how is this comparison (and the headline) valid?

    1. Re:Stupid comparison by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 1

      How is the comparison valid? Well it's right in the sub: "The iOS App Store distributed $10 billion to developers in 2014, which, Deidu points out, is just about as much as Hollywood earned off U.S. box office revenues the same year." To make a comparison only one element has to be common to each element. In this case it's the amount of money that was earned. It's a perfectly valid comparison.

      --
      Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
    2. Re:Stupid comparison by markdavis · · Score: 1

      I suppose, but it is misleading- many people will read it as the "app" industry is more return or revenue than "[all of] Hollywood", not "one single aspect of Hollywood earnings among many." Of course, I expect such things from sensationalist reporting.

    3. Re:Stupid comparison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * Merchandising rights

      I dunno, Rovio's angry birds merchandising right earned them about $85M/year (about 45% of their gross revenues)...
      That's bigger than most block buster movies (other than Star Wars)...

  32. Re:"loses ON piracy" - LOL. American idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oldmac31310, you spoke French!! (begins kissing arm)

  33. You Youngsters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The right statement here is:

    The American App Economy Is Now "Bigger Than Ben Hur"...

  34. Everything is bigger than Hollywood by swillden · · Score: 1

    Meh. Everything is bigger than Hollywood.

    Okay, that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but honestly, on the scale of major first-world institutions that people know and recognize, Hollywood is pretty small potatoes. Apple alone rakes in more than double the entire worldwide film industry's take. 2013 worldwide film industry revenues: $88B, and Hollywood is only about 2/3 of that. 2014 Apple revenues: $183B. IBM also is also bigger than Hollywood. Google is about as big as Hollywood. Ford is bigger than Hollywood. GM is bigger than Hollywood. Exxon Mobil is more than six times as large as Hollywoood.

    The film industry is almost noise in the US national economy. It's chump change.

    Where Hollywood is a heavyweight, though, is in politics. It has massively disproportionate power in comparison to its segment of the economy. Why? Simple: political power is about influence, not money, and Hollywood has direct access to the voters' brains. Large quantities of money can also buy access to said brains, but there is no amount of money that could buy as much political advertising as Hollywood can pack into its entertainment output. And any individual actor of note can stand up and say something and get press coverage that would cost tens of millions if purchased, free.

    Luckily, Hollywood isn't politically homogeneous, so to a large degree the politics of our entertainment media reflect the same varied sets of opinions found in the nation as a whole. Not perfectly, but largely. There are some areas in which the interests of Hollywood are highly homogeneous, however, such as around copyright law, and there they wield incredible clout.

    Anyway, my core point here isn't about that, it's just that Hollywood's visibility and influence makes it seem much bigger than its actual economic status.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  35. Apps bigger than Hollywood by spitzak · · Score: 1

    And they use more burp and fart sound effects than all of Hollywood!

  36. you dont have an app economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Luxembourg has an "app economy" as its Apple SRL that takes your cash regardless of country, communities never see a dime and have to beg for school pens https://www.kinf.org/

  37. Yeah, even the cat-litter industry is by Casandro · · Score: 1

    Hollywood isn't particularly big when it comes to industries. Hollywood is, when you look at it globally, not even the biggest player in the movie industry. It's largely insignificant to the economy.

  38. the real question by amias · · Score: 1

    but is it bigger than hip hop ?

    --
    [site]
  39. Re:Do you know the way to San Jose? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Yeah, next they'll be claiming that actors do it.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."