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Why ATM Bombs May Be Coming Soon To the United States

Posted by samzenpus on from the almost-worth-the-troub;e dept.

HughPickens.com writes Nick Summers has an interesting article at Bloomberg about the epidemic of 90 ATM bombings that has hit Britain since 2013. ATM machines are vulnerable because the strongbox inside an ATM has two essential holes: a small slot in front that spits out bills to customers and a big door in back through which employees load reams of cash in large cassettes. "Criminals have learned to see this simple enclosure as a physics problem," writes Summers. "Gas is pumped in, and when it's detonated, the weakest part—the large hinged door—is forced open. After an ATM blast, thieves force their way into the bank itself, where the now gaping rear of the cash machine is either exposed in the lobby or inside a trivially secured room. Set off with skill, the shock wave leaves the money neatly stacked, sometimes with a whiff of the distinctive acetylene odor of garlic." The rise in gas attacks has created a market opportunity for the companies that construct ATM components. Several manufacturers now make various anti-gas-attack modules: Some absorb shock waves, some detect gas and render it harmless, and some emit sound, fog, or dye to discourage thieves in the act.

As far as anyone knows, there has never been a gas attack on an American ATM. The leading theory points to the country's primitive ATM cards. Along with Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, and not many other countries, the U.S. doesn't require its plastic to contain an encryption chip, so stealing cards remains an effective, nonviolent way to get at the cash in an ATM. Encryption chip requirements are coming to the U.S. later this year, though. And given the gas raid's many advantages, it may be only a matter of time until the back of an American ATM comes rocketing off.

76 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. Positive pressure? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about you don't seal the back of the ATM but instead put vents on it and a blower continuously pushing fresh air in? If they thieves try to pump it full of explosive gas, it would blow back out.

    1. Re:Positive pressure? by bickerdyke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Several manufacturers now make various anti-gas-attack modules: Some absorb shock waves, some detect gas and render it harmless,

      Well, somehow I don't think those manufacturers haven't tried your idea yet. It's not about preventing this kind of attack would be particularly difficult - it just hasn't been neccessary so far.

      --
      bickerdyke
    2. Re:Positive pressure? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Depending on how motivated the thieves are, it may be more cost effective to have some shock-sensitive dye capsules embedded. Since they'd only be breached in the event of an attack(or really serious damage to the ATM from other sources) they could last the life of the machine and be entirely passive. If you were feeling particularly motivated, it would cost only a modest amount extra to get an ink with a unique tagging agent, per ATM, so that marked bills could be traced directly back to a specific attack.

      If a lot of ATMs are being blown up, or attackers are unconcerned by dyed bills(maybe because of literal laundering, maybe there are people who don't care?), then active defensive measures are more likely to save enough hardware to be worth the cost. If not, a passive capsule or capsules fragile enough to break during an explosion are simple, low-maintenance, and a fair deterrent.

    3. Re: Positive pressure? by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Who said anything about AC? The money doesn't care how warm it is, unless you're talking multiple hundreds of degrees. All you need is a sparkless ventilation fan.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    4. Re:Positive pressure? by schreiend · · Score: 2

      Preventing the gas from filling the volume seems to be easier than trying to make the box explosion-proof. Just install a one-way valve into the money slot which will let the bills out but vent the gas outside. Alternatively, make a two-hatch, airlock-like slot. The probable reason something similar isn't done yet is that banks look for some dirt cheap solution; it may actually be cheaper to lose money while this kind of attack is infrequent.

    5. Re:Positive pressure? by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A better idea - Add a large canister of ink in the money box. That's what they do over here in Sweden and it seems to limit the amount of bombings.

      It's a higher risk to get skimmed at the ATM than to encounter a bombing.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    6. Re:Positive pressure? by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That would be negative pressure, since you're sucking air out.

      Also, related to the summary (not your comment):

      The leading theory points to the country's primitive ATM cards. Along with Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, and not many other countries, the U.S. doesn't require its plastic to contain an encryption chip, so stealing cards remains an effective, nonviolent way to get at the cash in an ATM.

      The theory is flat out wrong. If you still the ATM card, you have the encryption chip. So adding a chip to the card doesn't change this.

      The encryption chip prevents CLONING the card, and has absolutely no effect what so ever on stealing the card. In fact, with the encryption chip, you must steal it to use it rather than whats done currently which is just cloning the card without the owner knowing.

      Way to totally misunderstand the problem guys.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    7. Re:Positive pressure? by houghi · · Score: 4, Informative

      The chip requires a PIN to be entered. If you don';t do that correctly within three times, the card is rendered useless.
      And this does not have to be three consecutive times.

      So even if you have the card, you are unable to do any purchases with it. And obviously you need to do them before the card is noticed to be stolen.

      In Belgium the Card Stop number is on every ATM. You call them and the card is blocked. Any Belgian card. Loose your walled with 10 cards? One number to call. The number is even on every new sim-card in Belgium.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    8. Re:Positive pressure? by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Can polymer bills be dyed?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    9. Re: Positive pressure? by TWX · · Score: 2

      Around here, ATMs are freestanding outside under an overhang (typically for drivethrough) or are built into the side of a building (walk-up or drivethrough). It's exceedingly rare for an ATM to be indoors unless it's in a shopping center. It's hot here though, and it doesn't rain much and snows maybe once every 20 years, so there's little need to protect ATMs from the elements.

      If you attempt to blow the gas back at the theives through vents on the sides of the ATM, they'll just start bringing plastic sheets with them. They'll run their hoses and their ignition wires, wrap the freestanding ATMs in plastic and tape it down, then fill it with gas and blow it.

      I don't expect that bombing will be the method used here. I expect they'll simply steal a nice one-ton pickup, ram the ATM off its slab and smash it into the building, back up and ram it a few more times until it breaks open, then grab the cash boxes and go. Or they steal one with a liftgate, ram it off its foundation, load it into the truck, and drive off. That way there's no charges for arson or explosives.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    10. Re: Positive pressure? by rickb928 · · Score: 2

      The electronics do, and the compartment doesn't isolate them. No, it does not.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    11. Re:Positive pressure? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      You'd probably need to use a different formulation than for cotton or cellulose based bills; but I suspect so.

      Based on a look at paints sold for use on plastics and vinyl(like this one), the strategy appears to be to use a suitably nasty solvent as a carrier for the pigment and have the solvent infiltrate the polymer's structure, carrying the pigment with it. In a case where you need not worry about damaging the polymer(unlike commercial plastic paints, where the solvent can't be so aggressive that it messes up the underlying material permanently), like tagging stolen bills, you could presumably be particularly aggressive in your formulation.

      I don't know the chemistry of the polymer and the protective coatings in common use; but you can usually find a solvent that will do the trick, especially if you don't mind a bit of damage to the material being worked with.

    12. Re: Positive pressure? by Immerman · · Score: 2

      If the electronics can't handle ambient outdoor temperatures, then I would suggest investing in better electronics.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    13. Re:Positive pressure? by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Informative

      No. They's why they're all blank.

      --
      https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    14. Re: Positive pressure? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

      Or use a solution that has been in use to handle sewer gases for years - vent pipe to the roof.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    15. Re:Positive pressure? by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Doe not work. What the thieves need is about 3% gas concentration (above and below it does not explode) and that can still be done. At the same time, positive pressure has to come from somewhere and has a number of real problems.

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      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    16. Re: Positive pressure? by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Oh yeah, "if <thing you have no clue about> cannot handle <other thing you do not understand>", just demand that "they" fix it. Real mature.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    17. Re: Positive pressure? by nobuddy · · Score: 2

      Many, if not most, electronics can handle ambient temperatures far above what humans can endure. This is not your overclocked PC we are talking about.

    18. Re:Positive pressure? by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You really have no clue how these attacks work. If you steal/clone a primitive obsolete card as used in the US, you can clone it cheaply and just try the pin on any number of not-online ATMs until you have it. (Many rural ATMs are not online over the weekend.) Then you clone a few more and go on an ATM tour, and this time they can be online. That does not work at all with chip-based cards.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    19. Re:Positive pressure? by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Add a large canister of ink in the money box.

      You're going to add a large canister of ink-jet ink over the money box?? MY GOD, that's worth more than the entire owning bank itself!

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
  2. For all of you USA haters out there: by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

    Along with Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, and not many other countries, the U.S. doesn't require its plastic to contain an encryption chip, so stealing cards remains an effective, nonviolent way to get at the cash in an ATM.

    "Can I make a suggestion that doesn't involve violence, or is this the wrong crowd for that?"

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not requiring an "encryption chip" itself shouldn't be something we're proud of. It should be a fact that drives the point home that the USA is almost always a little behind other countries though you'd be hard pressed to find an ordinary American who believes we're indeed a little behind.

      Riding the NY subway system just last week drove the point home when I witnessed rail cars those in South Africa may think are from the 50s, and wouldn't associate with a "first world" country.

    2. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by halivar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's the cost of being first adopters. It's easier to build modern infrastructure when you have no infrastructure to begin with. We've got legacy systems for everything: finance, IT, cable, phone, nuclear, etc., etc. The next people in line implement the next generation using lessons learned from the implementations before them.

    3. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not requiring an "encryption chip" itself shouldn't be something we're proud of

      The funny thing is that last year I my latest Amex card came with a chip, and so far the only place that I have actually used it is at Walmart of all places.

      And when I did use it, the attendant came running over and tried to convince me that I needed to swipe the card rather than poke into the chip-reading hole - even though when I first swiped it, the POS terminal recognized that I had a chipped card and told me that I needed to poke the card into the chip-reading hole.

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      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    4. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, no it's not. Europe too had legacy finance systems. We overhauled them - making us first adopters. The difference is not that you were first adopters (you weren't), it's that we actually spent some money to improve things.

    5. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by bws111 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uh, yeah. Of the 6400 cars in the NYC subway, more than 4300 were built in the last 15 years. Only 1400 are more than 30 years old, only 300 more than 40 years old, and none more than 50 years old.

    6. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here in the Netherlands a complete system for magstripe debit and credit card reading was in place. It worked for years.
      However, with the upswing in magstripe data thefts the banks have switched to chip. Next step is to disable magstripe payments by default unless the customer requests it.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    7. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Informative

      Since the losses due to card fraud are almost entirely borne by the banks, I have to assume it is more cost effective to take the losses than to chip all of the cards.

      I'm not sure what you mean regarding the NYC subway - those trains aren't very old. There are some older (1960s-era Budd cars) trains still used on the C line, but they were redone in the late 80s. The J and Z lines have some cars from the early 70s - but again, these were overhauled in the late 80s. Other than that, the oldest cars are from the late 70s - certainly nothing wooden from the 50s. The vast majority of the rolling stock was built by Bombardier, Kawasaki, or perhaps Westinghouse for some of the older 80s trains.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We also have a (general, not universal) willingness to let the market squabble it out for an extended period of time, rather than give a good hard shove in the direction of some implementation. This tendency may be abetted by the fact that early adoption creates incumbents who have a vested interest in stalling as long as possible to milk their legacy investments and first-mover advantage, as in our wonderful market for ISPs.

      With the payment card industry, you have a lot of people(all clambering to grab as much of the cut for themselves as they can, and shove as much of the risk onto others as they can) with competing agendas and a desire to have their pet proprietary system gain a foothold so they can extract tolls with it(eg. the incidents where some retailers with functioning NFC POS systems were deliberately disabling them because Apple Pay was a competitor to their 'CurrenC' system, and the ongoing spat between Google and the carrier-backed payment scheme formerly known as ISIS before that became a toxic brand). Nobody actually believes that "USA IS #1!!! Mag stripes RULE!"; but between everyone wanting to control the customer data and processing fees and banks, merchants, and payment processors fighting over risk allocation, it's a bit of a clusterfuck.

      Compare to say, the DoD's CAC rollout: CACs still aren't what you'd call a joy to configure(especially on OSX, or in Citrix environments, or other oddball use cases); but the DoD decided that it wanted everyone using smartcards for cryptographic authentication, said that that was how it was going to be, and it was so (relatively) quickly and smoothly.

      Opinions vary on how often we dodge a bullet, or get the benefit of something new and innovative, thanks to there being no mandate in place vs. how often we suffer pointless bullshit for an agonizingly long period of time(eg. the less-than-totally-compatible US cellular market); but the fact that we tend not to mandate an end to such fights all that often, or all that quickly, is simply a fact. Even when we do mandate something, it's often a de-facto 'national' mandate created because California, or another large state, demands something and it's cheaper to sell California-spec everywhere than it is to have two SKUs.

    9. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by bsdasym · · Score: 2

      Yes, yes it is something we should be proud of -- because those chips are pure security theater, protecting only against the (quite rare) 'skimming' devices. If you steal someones card, you get the chip with it. You don't get the PIN. In neither case can the card be used to withdraw money from an ATM. In both cases, the card can be used for online purchasing.

      How the authors conclude that this has anything to do with ATM bombings is a complete mystery. What were they doing before the useless encryption chips? Stealing dozens of cards and beating the PINs out of the owners? How did these magical encryption chips put a stop to this practice?

    10. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by hattig · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's the same in the UK, except chip and pin is the default and has been for around eight? ten? years already. I don't know if the magstripe is really used anymore either.

      It's quaint seeing a foreigner (American) try to pay for goods with a card, and have to go through special procedures for the signature style payment.

    11. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by quenda · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Never mind the antiquated banking system, lack of metric or the crippling health-care system - explain why pennies are still in circulation in the US!
      There is a fundamental conservatism in the US that makes it exceptionally difficult to change anything at the national level.
      It is something of a paradox, since at the local level, Americans are so adaptable and innovative.

    12. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by itzly · · Score: 2

      explain why pennies are still in circulation in the US!

      And why haven't 1 and 2 dollar bills been replaced by coins years ago ?

    13. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by war4peace · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who cares when were they built? If they're all built last year based on a design from the 50s, it's still the same crap, just shinier.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    14. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by johnw · · Score: 5, Funny

      I am reminded of an article I read a few years ago about some anniversary of the invention of the ATM. The American credited with inventing it, explaining how he did it, said he'd seen one in London, and so came home and invented it.

    15. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bomb an ATM in America? One way ticket to Gitmo.

      If you bomb an ATM, you go to prison, not Gitmo. Gitmo is for getting around that pesky Sixth Amendment thing, not for actual criminals.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    16. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by evil+crash · · Score: 5, Funny

      Cuz it is not sexy when a stripper gets and eye taken out by a handful of dollar coins tossed at her.

      --
      "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."-THG
    17. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by houghi · · Score: 2

      I have to assume it is more cost effective to take the losses than to chip all of the cards.

      No, it isn't. Especially not if you do it over a fase of say 5 years. That way the moment somebody needs a new card, either because the old one expired or it was lost or stolen.

      The extra cost for the card is minimal as it is produced in such vast numbers. Sure, if you replace all cards before their end of life, then it becomes expensive.

      The problem, I believe, is that investing money is almost seen as a loss for the company. In Europe and the rest of the world the same issues have arisen and the same questions have been asked by the same companies. And somehow they arrived at different answer?

      Also the money that you looses is not all. You also need to spend time in the investigation. You get false positives and false negatives. It all becomes a LOT easier when you have a chip.

      This does not mean abuse is not possible. People will lie that their card is stolen. Other ways of abuse will happen as well. These are on top of what already happens with the cards, not instead of.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    18. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      The most you will carry unable to turn into a bill is 4 coins then not pounds.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    19. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      And somehow they arrived at different answer?

      Sure, why not? As TFA illustrates, sometimes the losses that banks are incurring differs between the US and Europe. No one has (so far) started blowing up ATMs in the US, so why would the banks spend money making them explosion-resistant? Similarly, if the cards aren't being counterfeited at a rate deemed unacceptable by the banks, why should they upgrade all of their ATMs?

      As an aside, the big American credit card companies (not the ATM cards) are switching to chip cards. After 2015, if you are a merchant and don't upgrade to a chip reader, you will have to accept responsibility for any fraud. The transition is estimated to cost around $8 billion, so there is pushback from the merchants and it will be interesting to watch it all play out.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    20. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, Chip and PIN only attempts to absolve banks of any liability and to leave the account holder empty handed.

    21. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      The cost of fraud is paid by their honest customer's banking fees. Even if you as a customer get refunded by the bank, when a fraudulent transaction occurs on your account, the money has to come from somewhere.

      The cost of new ATM machines is paid by the honest customer's banking fees as well. That money also has to come from somewhere. Like most business decisions, it is a cost-benefit calculation.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    22. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by John.Banister · · Score: 2

      Universal Anodic Protection. It's got copper on all sides, so you can easily solder it on, but the copper is thin enough to easily buff off the exposed side when you're done - Instant Zinc Anode. When the ocean levels rise from our CO2 emissions, we'll be ready.

    23. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by bws111 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, they're still using designs from the 50s. The cars are still made of wood and have ceiling fans (oops, they are stainless steel/fiberglass and have A/C).

      The cars currently being made (R188) were designed in 2011. Previous generation (R160) was designed in 2005. Prior to that was the R143 (2010) and the R142 (1999).

    24. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by NotDrWho · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, I guess in the USA, holding someone at gun- or knife-point and demanding their wallet counts as non-violent.

      In Detroit, they call it "Thursday"

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    25. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by xaxa · · Score: 2

      The funny thing is that last year I my latest Amex card came with a chip, and so far the only place that I have actually used it is at Walmart of all places.

      It was similar in the UK, until the law changed to allow Visa and MasterCard to push the liability for non-chip fraud onto merchants. In the months leading up to that, everyone updated their card readers.

      The law changes in the USA in October.

    26. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've been 'asked to leave' a club after dropping two dollars worth of ice cold quarters down a dancers g string.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    27. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by T.E.D. · · Score: 2

      I can somewhat vouch for this. I went to Holland on a spur of the moment business trip last summer. While pretty much everyone there takes credit cards, they all have to be chipped. Of course with 1 day notice for the trip, I didn't have time to acquire such a card. My only salvation was that some of the currency-exchanging bank ATMs (particularly in the train stations) would take my magstripe Visa bank debit card.

      As an aside, I was also pretty startled by the amount of English knowledge there. I think I was hampered by knowing only English in exactly 2 places the whole month. I even had a train station panhandler switch right to English when I tried to fob him off because I didn't understand his pitch. I was tempted to say "No Habla Englez", but he probably knew Spanish too. :-(

    28. Re:For all of you USA haters out there: by gweihir · · Score: 3, Informative

      It seems you cannot even read the articles you quote: "In simultaneous and independent efforts, engineers in Japan, Sweden, and Britain developed their own cash machines during the early 1960s." and "An experimental Bankograph was installed in New York City in 1961 by the City Bank of New York, but removed after six months due to the lack of customer acceptance.".

      So not only was that 1961 in the US, it was a failure as well.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  3. Re:The mythbusters need to test this now! by redalien · · Score: 2

    They won't until there's a TV show or movie to tie it in to.

  4. Amateurs... by Flyingfenix · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here in Brazil, more than a few thousand ATMs were exploded in the last years. Using ordinary explosives, and in many cases, demolishing the entire building in the process.

    Many times, it destroys the money completely in the process, but as it seems, usually enough remains that the practice continues. No need to be refined, using gas or thinking about the physics. The thieves sometimes hijack trucks and buses to close off the streets for a few minutes while others set up and detonate the ATMs. The police rarely has time to come to the scene and jail them. Also, sometimes, the police itself is involved.

    The most effective measure taken to discourage the practice was to pack bags of dyes inside the ATM cassetes, so that the money is stained and rendered unusable. If you try to deposit stained money, it'll be confiscated on the spot.

    In the last months, security measures got better in the larger cities, and the thieves moved to exploding the ATMs in smaller cities, or more remote locations in the suburbs.

    1. Re:Amateurs... by bickerdyke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Many times, it destroys the money completely in the process, but as it seems, usually enough remains that the practice continues.

      Well, it's not their money they're destroying...

      The most effective measure taken to discourage the practice was to pack bags of dyes inside the ATM cassetes, so that the money is stained and rendered unusable. If you try to deposit stained money, it'll be confiscated on the spot.

      Hmm... they can take the stained money, but neither deposit or spend it.....

      They're probably going to leave behind stained money, as it is of no use to them. The bank, on the other hand, of course will re-deposit their own stained money....

      But what if they would find out that there is MORE stained money found in the debris than there was inside?

      Sounds to me like either a source for lulz or a way to wash (somehow literally) dirty money. (with a little inside help of course)

      --
      bickerdyke
    2. Re:Amateurs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The most effective measure taken to discourage the practice was to pack bags of dyes inside the ATM cassetes, so that the money is stained and rendered unusable. If you try to deposit stained money, it'll be confiscated on the spot.

      Hmm... they can take the stained money, but neither deposit or spend it.....

      Here in DC we have at least 535 folks that are willing to take tainted cash. Any denomination, any amount.

  5. If this information is widely disseminated by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    (beyond the halls of this honorable posting forum), you can bet your bottom someone will be doing it by the end of the week.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  6. Japanese solution! by Justpin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Or they do what they do annoyingly in Japan/Mongolia (some places in China)and some places in Hong Kong and Taiwan. That is they put the ATM machines inside a small lobby of a bank and when the bank closes the shutters come down on the ATM lobby as well.

    1. Re:Japanese solution! by jittles · · Score: 5, Informative

      In Germany a lot of small suburb banks require you to use your ATM card to open the lobby door after hours. At least that was my experience a few years ago. This doesn't prevent someone from using a stolen card to gain access to the bank lobby, but it forces the criminals to enter into a lighted and monitored building before they can engage in any shenanigans.

    2. Re:Japanese solution! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At my local bank you need the ATM card to get into the lobby after hours.

      Or, at least, some random card with mag stripe. It doesn't appear to make any difference.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Japanese solution! by Jaime2 · · Score: 2

      We have those in the US. I use various cards in those for fun to see what works. For some reason, it's entertaining to me to use a Microsoft Certified Professional card to get into an ATM vestibule.

  7. New ATMs - loads of solutions by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    There are a load of solutions that will work with new ATMs, a number of them already mentioned. What is needed is a cheap retro-fit, without modifying the strong box. Many banks don't upgrade this expensive component for years. I think the most promising ideas are ones that ink the money - but they have to get well in to the whole stack. A thin red edge that could be trimmed won't be good enough.

    1. Re:New ATMs - loads of solutions by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There are a load of solutions that will work with new ATMs, a number of them already mentioned. What is needed is a cheap retro-fit, without modifying the strong box. Many banks don't upgrade this expensive component for years. I think the most promising ideas are ones that ink the money - but they have to get well in to the whole stack. A thin red edge that could be trimmed won't be good enough.

      Retrofitting machines to ink the money shouldn't be an issue at all. It would be simple to make small fragile glass packs of various
      sizes filled with ink. Then you should be able to apply them with double sided tape anywhere and everywhere inside the machine
      there is a void. If you wanted to go one step further you could fill some of the glass packs with different chemicals that when
      combined produced combustion and incinerated the bills further. That should be enough to retrofit existing machines assuming
      they have any amount of voids. This would also prevent stealing the ATM machine as the glass packs would break if someone
      tried to yank the atm with a chain, etc...

      Probably the most important part though is putting a sticker on the front that says that you use ink packs so that people know
      or assume that even if they are crazy enough to try to blow up an atm that they probably won't get anything.

  8. Encryption chips? by Dan+East · · Score: 2

    What do encryption chips have to do with anything? If a card is stolen and known stolen, the owner can report the theft and the card is deactivated, whether or not it contains an "encryption chip". If the card is stolen and the owner does not know it was stolen, and the thief also has the pin, then they can use the card, whether or not it has an "encryption chip". Or am I totally understanding what this "encryption chip" does?

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Encryption chips? by LordLucless · · Score: 2, Informative

      Poor word choice in TFS. Chips don't make it harder to use stolen cards, they make it harder to use cloned cards.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  9. Re:Wont work around here... by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    the other 1% are the little fake ATM's at liquor stores and shady party stores that nobody sane would insert their card into.

    To be fair most of these just rip you off legally with huge withdrawal charges

  10. Re:The mythbusters need to test this now! by MitchDev · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or it will be like the "How easy is it to steal credit card numbers" segment that sponsors forced them to cut from the show...

  11. Word missing from the summary by gwjgwj · · Score: 5, Funny

    *Automatic* ATM Machines.

  12. Re:The mythbusters need to test this now! by NoMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why, when the funny version is available on YouTube?

    A local one from the other week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVEkK_ZhKQo

    The local intelligentsia have been doing this on and off since at least 2008:
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/now-theyre-robbing-with-gas-atms-blown-up/2008/11/18/1226770451062.html

    --
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  13. Re:The mythbusters need to test this now! by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Funny

    The mythbusters need to test this now!

    Jamie Wants a Big Boom.

    (Heard off-camera after some tests had been performed to see how noteworthy an ATM segment would be)

    Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!

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  14. Re:The mythbusters need to test this now! by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They won't until there's a TV show or movie to tie it in to.

    Yeah, sadly, that's pretty much all they do now. I'm pretty sure this was something the Discovery execs forced on them (along with shitcanning the junior mythbusters). Mythbusters is one of the few shows still left on that channel where hillbillies don't fake a bunch of drama while fishing, goldmining, or moonshining. Once Discovery finally strips it of everything that made it great and drives it off the air, the execs will have another free camera crew to send to Alaska with instructions to "try to make it look real" as they stage faux redneck drama.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  15. Re:Probably won't happen soon by Pallas+Athena · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They didn't show you the real successfull video's. They do exist - but just possibly, maybe, they are not very keen to share methods that do work...

  16. Re:Wont work around here... by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What makes you think that ATMs in europe aren't embedded in a small concrete building?

    Note - that small concrete building usually has a door in the back of it so that a guy can come along, open it, and then fill up the ATM with cash. That again, is the weak point that the explosion will blow out.

  17. Re:From the Department of Redundancy Department by Chelloveck · · Score: 2

    What? He isn't referring to Automated Asynchronous Transfer Mode Machines?

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    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
  18. Is this REALLY a hard problem to solve? by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would have thought that drilling some holes into the back, top or underside of the ATM would fix the problem. The ATM might need some steel plates on the inside of the holes to stop people poking wires through into the machine itself but it shouldn't be rocket science to solve. The underside would be better on the basis that these ATMs are likely to be heavy and fixed to the floor with bolts so the underside would be less accessible.

  19. Re:Probably won't happen soon by swb · · Score: 2

    I know you said fuck Mythbusters, but didn't they do a bit on watering a safe and trying to shock wave it open? I seem to remember it not working that well.

  20. Re:Probably won't happen soon by JeffAtl · · Score: 2

    Most of their problem was that using a cutting torch to open a hole for the insertion of the water. The heat of the torch in the closed space of the safe melted or burned everything inside.

    Also, Mythbusters is almost going to show a successful criminal approach - they are too reliant on the cooperation of law enforcement. The only successful ones they show are ones that are too impractical.

  21. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  22. Re:The mythbusters need to test this now! by Coren22 · · Score: 2

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnR3Tyrg_10

    No boom today. Boom tomorrow.

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    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?