Slashdot Mirror
Police Stations Increasingly Offer Safe Haven For Craigslist Transactions
HughPickens.com writes: Lily Hay Newman reports at Future Tense that the police department in Columbia, Missouri recently announced its lobby will be open 24/7 for people making Craigslist transactions or any type of exchange facilitated by Internet services. This follows a trend begun by police stations in Virginia Beach, East Chicago and Boca Raton. Internet listings like Craigslist are, of course, a quick and convenient way to buy, sell, barter, and generally deal with junk. But tales of Craigslist-related assaults, robberies, and murders where victims are lured to locations with the promise of a sale, aren't uncommon. Also, an item being sold could be broken or fake, and the money being used to buy it could be counterfeit.
"Transactions should not be conducted in secluded parking lots, behind a building, in a dark location especially when you're dealing with strangers. Someone you've never met before – you have no idea what their intentions are – whether they have evil intent or the best of intentions," says Officer James Cason Jr. With surveillance cameras running 24 hours a day, plus the obvious bonus of a constant police presence, meeting in the lobby of the police department can help weed out people trying to rip others off. "People with stolen items may not want to meet at the police department," says Bryana Maupin.
"Transactions should not be conducted in secluded parking lots, behind a building, in a dark location especially when you're dealing with strangers. Someone you've never met before – you have no idea what their intentions are – whether they have evil intent or the best of intentions," says Officer James Cason Jr. With surveillance cameras running 24 hours a day, plus the obvious bonus of a constant police presence, meeting in the lobby of the police department can help weed out people trying to rip others off. "People with stolen items may not want to meet at the police department," says Bryana Maupin.
Take a cut?
... for civil asset forfeiture.
"The suspect appeared to be reaching for a concealed weapon, so the endangered officer had no choice but to fill that sucker with lead ....."
Right, because everything they do at all times must be shady and borderline illegal, right?
I'm guessing you're made because they busted you for smoking dope you hop head. More likely, this is a case of them wanted to cut down on their workload somewhat and getting people to conduct these transactions next to or in the police station is likely to cut down somewhat on illegal activity.
Unless you happen to be black. If so, better be careful when getting out your wallet to make a purchase.
It's great seeing the police "get it". What a great idea, I hope it takes off!
meeting in the lobby of the police department can help weed out people trying to rip others off
Well yeah, it's right there in the summary. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise.
Cue 100 knee jerk conspiracy theorists that cops will go randomly hurting traders / stealing stuff / whatever.
Even if you want to look at this from an everyone's-entirely-selfish PoV (though if I thought humans were generally as bad as some people think, I'd be offing myself), this is way more efficient than actually having to go out and catch the criminals who just assaulted a Craiglist victim.
Just because the edifice is corrupt, it doesn't mean every lowly worker is evil. Otherwise you're evil too for paying your taxes so you can stay comfortably within the system when you could be on the streets.
If I'm the one buying, I ask the other dude to meet me at the police station to complete the sale. Three reasons:
1) Minimizes the chances I'll be raped, murdered, robbed, or otherwise harmed.
2) Maximizes the chances that the goods are not stolen, counterfeit, or in some way defective.
3) People with outstanding warrants or otherwise sketchy pasts will not want to meet there, and of course I don't want to do business with them because of the risks of 1 and 2, but also because I don't want to support, for instance, a drug dealer.
Of course the police benefit from having one or two absolute morons come in and sell drugs or something like that, but the public benefits hugely from this as well.
There is simply no way this is actually a good faith attempt to benefit the citizenry here. None.
Just like there is simply no way that you actually post your comments in good faith, right? Because everything that everyone does is always bad, always, right?
You know the saying. When everyone around you is an asshole, you're the asshole.
Of course the cops aren't going to complain when someone so stupid as to walk into their lobby right next to a picture of them and the warrant that's out for their arrest that's posted on the wall makes it easy for them. But the idea here is to simply shut down some scam transactions before they even occur. They don't have to DO anything - just make it clear that people who are uncomfortable with a transaction with stranger are welcome to meet up in the safest place available. Just like they tell you that you any time you think you might be being pulled over by someone who's not a real cop (say, an unmarked car), you can drive to the parking lot of a police station before pulling over. That's been the policy everywhere I've lived for decades.
Your eagerness to make a safe transaction or the serendipitous arrest of a stupid known, predatory criminal a bad thing is truly bizarre. Which of those two things is not in support of "the citizenry?" Which backwards world view are you holding that makes either of those things something nefarious on the part of the local police station? Grow up.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Wow paranoid much?
take off your tinfoil hat, not everything in this world is out there to screw you over. robberies, murders etc look bad on the police as well as affecting normal people. It is an intelligent move and it would be nice if we saw more of it, regardless of what good they do there will always be people like you that can't possibly fathom that not all police are corrupt.
If the seller doesn't agree to meet at the stationhouse, isn't that a person the police should be investigating?
Great idea. Working through my backlog of WIRED magazines and was only reading about the bizarre case of the Craiglist Killers last night.
http://www.wired.co.uk/magazin...
Police stations?
Damn, now I have an even greater chance of being shot while trying to buy a used smartphone.
Only an idiot meets at somebody's house. People have had their home burgled as a result of that. Rather nasty stuff. What you do is meet in a public place. Some place where there are plenty of bystanders.
If the seller doesn't agree to meet at the stationhouse, isn't that a person the police should be investigating?
I certainly hope not!
Before seeing this article, I personally would have assumed meeting at the station house would put ourselves in the way of police officers with other important things to do, perhaps even things like saving lives, for what basically boils down to a simple craigslist purchase.
If someone else would have suggested it I would certainly be offering up other safe options to go with first, only choosing this one if literally no other options were available to not meet alone, and even then I would still feel bad for being in the way.
Now sure if I was to shoot down ALL suggestions for safe meetings, then that would and probably should be seen as shady as hell. But offering tried and true alternatives first is not something I feel should earn deeper investigation by the police or any other government agency.
"Do you have a friend or three that can come along? How about we meet at the Cinibun in blahblah mall? Or anywhere else closer to you that's in public and has a lot of people and cameras around? The police probably have lives to save and stuff, would you at least three-way call them first and ask if it's OK?"
Personally I see offering multiple ways to help reassure the other party, while also having my only one request for similar reassurance being denied, as the questionable act. Still not "investigated by the police or feds" level of questionable of course, but enough to raise my "I don't want to deal with an overly demanding buyer" counter, especially if there are other buyers in line.
"Transactions should not be conducted in secluded parking lots, behind a building, in a dark location especially when you're dealing with strangers."
And they shouldn't be done in well-populated parking lots in the middle of the day. The robbers these days know that no one wants to get involved.
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/19288695/victim-of-craigslist-seller-armed-robber-shares-warning
"Eventually, he went to the same St. Paul neighborhood where Bo was shot -- in fact, he was only a few blocks away from where Bo was shot when he met his robber in broad daylight with people nearby."
It's been 2 hours, 31 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
Really slashdot? Anonymous posting is that much of a problem?
Explain the logic why they should. You presented none.
You have it backwards. The teen in custody saved the cop's life
But the crooks are safe. They know very well that if they smear their faces with lemon juice, the cameras can't see their faces and they can't be caught.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
This is great. This is the sort of thing a safety force should be doing. I hope more police organizations will consider actually providing useful public services like this!
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
You know, and I know, exactly what sort of person decides to come to the GP's conclusion and make that sort of assertion.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Such police guarded "flee market" is only necessary if you have to assume that it is very common that people try to rip you off.
How broken must a country be that the police has to provide something like that? That implies that you generally cannot trust anybody (beside the police). For a society which requires cooperation and trustworthiness to function, this is a big crisis. And you should fix it. However, it might be helpful that the police tries to provide grounds where such trust can be developed, again.
As we a ruining Europe right now. This is also a warning sign that when we fuck up our countries (as we are currently doing) we will also end up with a society where no one trusts no one.
That guy probably feared for his life more than anything else. Can you imagine what would have happened to him if the cop had died while he was alone with the 17 year old black who has "a history of arrests"?
http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/Georgia-Couple-Killed-Via-Craigslist-Helped-WV-Community-290293701.html
MINGO COUNTY, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Funeral arraignments have been made for the Georgia couple, lured by a Craigslist ad, and murdered.
Yes there is. I consider the police lazy enough that they'd do it in good faith because aside of the idiots that may come to them to get arrested instead of them having to go out and catch them, they would probably also reduce the number of cases where someone actually gets mugged, robbed or otherwise becomes victim of a crime, which would be yet another reason to leave the box of donuts and go out into the world to interview the victim and do a search of the crime scene.
Even if you don't think there are any cops left that actually want to do what is allegedly their job, there's plenty of reason for them to establish something like that without resorting to paranoid surveillance conspiracies.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
That's because he said in his head,"Holy shit! They're gonna think I killed him!"
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable doing it in the police station lobby.
Disclaimer: That only works if you are white.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I wonder if there will unintended consequences.
You can't easily sell large items in the cop shop lobby.
If you owned a vehicle large enough to haul them and were willing to put up with the headache of having to lather, rinse, repeat in dealing with the usual cast of Craigslist tire-kickers and last-minute hagglers and their manifold gimmicks for trying to pay less than the previously agreed price you maybe could haul the items to the cop shop and use their premises for the exchange.
But I'd wager most people can't or won't -- I've sold furniture, TVs and exercise equipment on Craigslist I either couldn't haul myself or didn't want to load/unload. And Craigslist seems to be the home of all manner of flakes and last-second hagglers who swear up and down on the phone they want to buy your item for an agreed price but then never show up, show up and gripe about trivialities ("In your 4 pictures, the black paint on this wicker chair was a different black") or try to re-negotiate on the spot (knowing someone wants rid of something, or trying games like "I miscounted my cash, I'm $x short, is that OK?"). So even if you DID haul it, you might haul it multiple times as you fend off cheapskates, low-grade swindlers, no shows, etc.
Anyway, perhaps an unintended consequence is that maybe the thieves and cheats now move more exclusively to ripping off large item sellers in their homes and just avoid small item sales that may happen in a cop shop.
In the Los Angeles area, child custody swaps are handled like this. When there is an unhappy divorce arrangement the courts have a room at local police stations set up for multiple family child visitation exchanges. Moms and children on one side of the room and Dads on the other. Then the children walk across the room.
Had the buyer meet me in the lobby of my bank, transaction was in cash. Called my insurance agency before the guy test drove the car and had him leave the money with me. When the deal was done I deposited the cash, sent a CYA email to the insurance agency cancelling as of that time and date, went out, pulled the tags, tossed the dude the keys. Sketchily, he whipped out some Delaware tags (we were not in Delaware and he said he was from a different state but this was not my problem) and drove away. Seemed like a pretty safe way to do business.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Obviously, some people have a different definition of "uncommon" than I do.
Not a bad idea. Probably saves a lot of aggravation and cuts down on the number of investigations.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
That is a stupidest advice I have ever heard.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Man, this comments section is depressing.
"If you'd feel more comfortable buying your iPod at our Police Station go ahead."
"Thanks - As a teenage girl, that does make me feel more comfortable."
FASCISTS!!!
There are lots of routine, day-to-day things that police are required to do that necessitate a staffed front desk during business hours. Police checks, parole check-ins, and taking deliveries, for example. If their lobby is decent size then offering it as a public space for craigslist exchanges isn't costing them any time or money.
I see the SJW's are out in force spewing BS 'facts' from their pie holes.
Explain the logic why they should. You presented none.
First, their job is to make life safer for everyone and to prevent crime. They do that. Second, it's very little effort for them because the crooks and criminals won't come to the police station. Third, a single citizen becoming victim of a crime creates huge amounts of work for the police, so it is much more effective to prevent the crime from happening in the first place. Fourth, it makes people happy and improve their view of the police force which again makes life easier for the police.
Yes, because if you never invite anyone over, thieves will never figure out where your house is.
There is simply no way this is actually a good faith attempt to benefit the citizenry here. None.
Well I don't know about anyone else, but I'm convinced! I'm glad you didn't try to cloud the issue by any kind of pesky evidence or anything!
facial recognition from the camera feeds
license plate reading in the parking lots and street
requiring serial/vin (and etc) numbers of items with them
testing currency, backpacks for drugs
scanning contents of electronic storage
random searches and frisks
all for our protection, of course
Even law-abiding citizens are not all comfortable around police, particularly when it comes to handing off sums of cash to complete strangers for whatever package they hand back. It's a situation that makes even legitimate transactions look like shady business dealings, and you're doing it in front of people whose job it is to investigate BOTH sides of such dealings.
Even if you know that the $50 you got for your legitimately purchased and now sold 32" flat screen is all perfectly legal, you still don't know how the cops that are watching you the whole time, every minute you're there, from the time you enter carrying your TV and just loiter around waiting for the buyer to when the buyer shows up and you talk about the deal to the actual exchange until you leave, are going to react. It's really creepy, actually.
Some kind of private security company that has a 24/7 lobby. If you don't use their people in any way it's free.. if you want to check the money is real, their expert charges a fee. If you want a secured trade of some kind, costs money.
I wonder if it would make a profit :) could be a new franchise
I park right in front of Starbucks and meet prospective sellers or buyers inside. If I'm buying an item, they have to bring it inside with them. No "it's in the car a couple blocks over down this alley". I get there a little early to case the joint and get a coffee. Adjust for items that can't easily be carried into Starbucks. (No, you park right here. I'm not going to park down that alley.)
I've had zero issues so far. Where I think people get into trouble is when they want the sale so badly that they can be talked into doing stupid things. Like meeting alone in unsecure locations.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
This venue is not recommend for commercial transactions initiated through the "personals" section of Craigslist.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Well, it's about time.
I pay taxes for these buildings and get no use from them. The only cops I see are in their patrol cars.
This is an appropriate use of public facilities. Hopefully, they have AC outlets and free WiFi for testing.
One good result will be people who are intimidated by the police to see them as helpers. It could help change the views of citizens and officers for the good.
You listed a lot of reasons why someone would want to perform transaction at the police station.
You still haven't presented a single reason why police should investigate people who refuse to do transactions at police station.
Friend to avoid accusations/complications every week, during custody transfers of the children, kids spend a week with mom, then a week with dad, repeat. he started meeting out in the police parking lot, under camera eyes and police driving in and out and being in building.
Think things have cooled down and they no longer do it, but its a great idea for people who have raw feelings. Fear of domestic abuse/ wrongful accusations. Or simply stopping a shouting match in front of kids before it starts.
First, their job is to make life safer for everyone and to prevent crime. They do that.
WTF? Someone actually believes this? *boggle*
I used to deliver pizza for a living. Sometimes you get mugged. Once as I returned to the store, battered and bleeding, there was a cop right there in the store, getting some free pizza.
He seemed annoyed that we interrupted his free-pizza-getting by asking him to at least write an incident report. He outright rejected the notion that the police should make the area safer, and instead chastised us for doing business in such a dangerous neighborhood. He also wrote me a ticket for something about my car. Presumably the only reason he didn't shake me down for the money I had on me was that someone else had already stole that.
0 interest in policing. 0 interest in making things safer. 0 interest in preventing crime in any way that required effort on his part. They don't do that. They take your money and extort businesses for free stuff. That's what the police do.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
If the seller doesn't agree to meet at the stationhouse, isn't that a person the police should be investigating?
I certainly hope not!
Before seeing this article, I personally would have assumed meeting at the station house would put ourselves in the way of police officers with other important things to do, perhaps even things like saving lives, for what basically boils down to a simple craigslist purchase.
The police spend most of their time sitting on their asses, and anyhow this is simply letting people use their lobby as only a truly big idiot would try something while standing right inside the proverbial lions den.
Virginia Beach, VA has followed suit. We have had a lot of CL-related crimes in the region.
Who are you Hugh Pickens?
And are you any relation to Slim?
Disclaimer: That only works if you are white.
Maybe you should use a meme generator for that one?
Or, consider the reality of it. Cops who pull people over while driving unmarked cars are completely used to not being trusted - by anyone, of any color. I have a great relationship with the cops I know, and have never had a bad moment with any I don't. My wife and I are lily white, but I'd never encourage her to pull over for an unmarked car anywhere but in a very populated spot, and ideally in front of the local police station. I do not trust unmarked cars, and there's good reason for that. Great news bit just this morning, where a cop-impersonating douche in a white Crown Vic pulled over (wait for it!) an off duty cop. Good one. He got to flash his badge, and was packing (guy drove off, but was promptly caught and arrested). What do the rest of us get to do?
Meanwhile, back in your race-card-playing department: there's a reason that cops in rougher neighborhoods don't EVER do normal traffic stops in unmarked cars. Cops in marked cruisers get attacked, run over, shot at and otherwise put in peril all the time. And those are guys rolling in plainly marked cars, wearing uniforms. I'll have to look around to see if there are any stats on basic traffic stops in marked vs. unmarked cars in high crime areas. My sense, from talking to people in that line of work, is that it's very rare. Unmarked cars in those areas aren't about traffic citations - they're usually working warrants, drug mules, trafficking, that sort of thing.
In the mean time, if you get the lights on you from an unmarked car, and it doesn't matter what color you are, proceed at the speed limit to the nearest station, or look for a marked car and honk to get their attention (if the unmarked is real, the officer in the marked car will already know what's going on, and will usually join in the stop to help protect the unmarked guy and to make sure anyone seeing the scene understands it's legit).
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Because some police are assholes and don't do their jobs doesn't mean no police do their job, or that there are not departments out there that try to address problems.
They take your money and extort businesses for free stuff.
You might as well argue that this is a universal trait of humans, that there are examples of people in just about every profession doing that, and hence we shouldn't believe any one anywhere does their job.
Yes, yes, we've heard it all before, it's those 99% of police who are bad apples that give the other 1% a bad name. Totally unfair of me to overgeneralize from several such occurrences in my actual life when arguing about someone else's fantasy.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
On the few chances when I've needed a police officer, I made the mistake of going to my local police station. The only one there seemed to be the dispatcher. The officers are all out on the road making their presence known.
It at least protects the parties from possible physical harm. But it's still quite possible to get taken for a ride--in a police station.
Even when doing business with someone you don't know, it's possible to look for, and read, clues as to the kind of person you are dealing with. Do they call back when promised? Do you notice any "little lies"? Does the story change over time?
I've bought personal vehicles on Craigslist for years, and there are a lot of good clues. For example, when you ask whether the car is still for sale, and they answer "Which one?" you know you're talking to a dealer, not an individual. Ask lots of questions, then mention that you will be pulling the CarFax report, and watch what happens. If they start changing the story, walk away! Clues as simple as how the person dresses can tell you a lot about what kind of person they are.
No system is perfect, but it's important to do your homework, even if you are meeting in a police station.
Bart and Caltrain stations in broad daylight have always worked well for me. Same goes for major public transit facilities in any city. Granted my transactions tend to be limited to computer hardware and automobiles.
Don't think I'd feel comfortable meeting someone at a pig fortress, just to buy/sell a laptop. Adds unnecessary risk to otherwise routine business.
I think you've made my point.
You are welcome on my lawn.
They see a white person committing a crime, they let him off with a warning if not outright ignoring him.
They see a black person committing a crime, they arrest him if not outright shoot him.
That's why black crime rates are so much higher.
You live in a dream world.
You are a naive idiot who spews bullshit.
What your punk ass needs to do is take a nice slow walk through a housing project parking
lot some night and see how that works out for you. If you survive, maybe you can post to
Slashdot and tell us how your post injury rehab is progressing.
Fools like you make me sick, because some people are stupid enough to believe your bullshit
and then they are put at risk themselves because they are falsely led to believe that the world
is a safer place than it really is.
The truth is that the world is not a safe place all the time and people with experience on the street
know this is true. You probably grew up in a middle class neighborhood where the only people of
color were gardeners or groundskeepers. You have no fucking CLUE what the real world is like
outside of your narrow range of personal experience.
/
I think you've made my point.
Sure, if you want to ignore everything else I've said. I've also spent 15 years living in a neighborhood where we were the only lily white people for blocks in every direction. My neighbors - many of whom had teenage wandering-the-streets-age sons - were from every ethnic group, color, flavor, and economic strata. Your attempt to make this about race, rather than about people's behavior, is just silly. Or, it would be, if it wasn't such a common bit of craven media laziness.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
It's partly your responsibility because you didn't take appropriate precautions.
If the simple precautions which can prevent becoming a victim are not obvious to
you, then you should avoid buying and selling stuff on Craigslist.
;
That IS their job. How well they do it really depends on where you are. If you are in a democracy you can get off your arse and vote for someone that wants ideal first world police instead of heading for the dregs of the third world. You are probably one of those that actually does that but there seem to be a lot of people that complain without bothering to get off their arses and perform the easiest duty of citizenship.
Where the fuck did this weird "SJW" insult come from? Was it from some cocaine ravaged former DJ on Fox or did you catch it from a different vector, "reality" TV or something? Googling hasn't helped much, it just makes it look all the more stupid.
I've stopped watching TV for a few years and now so sometimes I don't have a fucking clue about what you kids are on about and why you want to look so stupid.
I once had a CB radio stolen out of my car, while it was in my *driveway*. Called the cops and they didn't even want to be bothered.... Could barely get the guy to write a report, and he sure as heck didn't want to waste time checking for fingerprints or any of that.
During a messy divorce, many years later, my ex and some of her friends/relatives ransacked the house while I was out. Came home to find the front door wide open with the A/C running full blast in the middle of summer, and pretty much everything gone from the house that wasn't nailed down. The cops were called immediately. They just laughed at me and walked around whistling and making comments about how "She sure screwed him over good, didn't she?" Nothing useful was done.
So when my portable GPS was stolen out of my truck in a smash and grab several years ago (all while I was picking up a to-go food order from a Chipotle), I didn't expect the cops to be of any help whatsoever. Surprisingly, an officer showed up who was friendly and eager to try to help out. He got out a whole fingerprint kit and went over all the possible places the thief might have touched the truck, took a detailed report, and gave me several contact numbers to reach him or other officers about the case. They never did recover the GPS ... but I was truly impressed that they actually did their job trying to help.
So yeah, results vary. By and large, the police disappoint me -- but I'll give credit where it's due.
So you can buy your guns across the street from the police station, and then do some test firing at the police station. Sounds like a good idea.
The enforcement of sales tax on high-value items.
I hadn't heard about this, and I live here. Nice. I wonder if there will be officers there, though, considering accident reports have to be filed online if nobody was hurt, presumably to save on staff costs.
There are a bunch of gamers who got into a fight with each other. Some of them self-identified as Social Justice Warriors, being completely oblivious to the 100+ year history of the term. Now these kids call each other "SJWs" as an insult and attribute all kinds of anti-social-justice behaviors to these strawman SJWs.