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If a Financial Institution Mishandles My Data, What Recourse Do I Have?

grahamsaa writes: My sister recently consolidated her student loans, and the bank e-mailed the paperwork, which included her name, address, date of birth, social security number, drivers license number and bank account information to the wrong e-mail address. The address (a gmail address) is associated with a real person (not her), so someone now has all of her personal details. My sister claims that she read her e-mail address to the bank representative over the phone twice, but that it was transcribed incorrectly.

The real issue is that the bank was willing to use unencrypted e-mail at all to send sensitive information, and I told my sister that at a minimum the bank should cover electronic credit monitoring for her for a minimum of a year, but I feel like that alone probably isn't enough. While my sister should have insisted that they use a more secure means of sending this information, I think it should be the bank's responsibility to ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen. What kind of recourse does a person in my sister's position have? Did the bank violate any laws (she lives in Connecticut in the United States)? Is there a standard penalty for this kind of thing? I'm not a lawyer, but I know some of you are. What are her options in this case?

139 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. Not a laywer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You know a lawyer could lose their license if they gave advice to you in this situation (they'd be representing you).

    Your options are: find a lawyer.

    1. Re:Not a laywer. by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Or live with amateur advice from people who can't be lawyers by definition.

      --
      bickerdyke
    2. Re: Not a laywer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      CFPB has regulations against sending such info in plain emails. Bank can get seriously fined.

    3. Re: Not a laywer. by Sique · · Score: 5, Insightful

      HOW DOES SENDING EMAIL OVER ENCRYPTED CHANNELS "PREVENT" EMAIL ADDRESS TYPOS?

      It does insofar as the public keys of the intended receiver and the actual receiver don't match, and thus the actual receiver gets nothing but encrypted gibberish, thus no data is leaked.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re: Not a laywer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing you've jumped to your guns too fast and forgotten to find out what you're attacking. Secure channels doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does. My payslips for instance are sent encrypted and cannot be read without my password and this is fairly commonplace. Take public key encryption as an example. Perhaps next time you'll ignore your american roots and think before you speak so that you don't look like a fool.

    5. Re: Not a laywer. by itzly · · Score: 2

      Public keys ? There is no established infrastructure for public key encryption of e-mail.

    6. Re: Not a laywer. by JonathanR · · Score: 2

      OpenPGP. Signed and encrypted; eliminates unintended recipients from reading the contents; guarantees the sender.

    7. Re: Not a laywer. by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      OpenPGP would happily decrypt for the correct (but incorrectly typed-in) address. It would not prevent a typo.

      My bank sends statements via email, but they are a password protected PDF that itself downloads a PDF. I have no idea why this is superior to sending a web link, but this is what they do.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re: Not a laywer. by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      Encrypted e-mail is to this day not straightforward, if possible at all. I just checked my e-mail client, Claws Mail. It doesn't have an option to encrypt e-mail. Maybe in an extension; it's not in the client itself. Using encryption securely is hard, really hard. So many ways it can go wrong, so easy to make a mistake and compromise your key making the whole thing moot.

      Furthermore, I don't know of any current standard for e-mail encryption that is widely supported. No idea on how to create a key - let alone how to securely and easily exchange keys with random recipients (like a client who calls me asking me to send them some information by e-mail).

      Now imagine e-mail encryption is commonplace. The obvious way to send an encrypted mail to someone would be to pull their public key from some kind of repository (which as yet doesn't exist but let's just imagine it does and that every e-mail address that's in use has a key pair) - the one that belongs to their e-mail address - the e-mail address you're going to send the information to - and which may be someone else's entirely as I wrote it down incorrectly. So while anyone in transit can not read it, the recipient of the e-mail will have the private key (after all, it's the public key that belongs to that e-mail address). So this doesn't solve the problem at hand!

      I won't say e-mail encryption is useless, it does help snooping on the way, but it is also definitely not the one all end all.

    9. Re: Not a laywer. by itzly · · Score: 1

      I know about OpenPGP, but it's hardly an established infrastructure. I bet your grandma doesn't use it.

    10. Re: Not a laywer. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well the wrong receiver wouldn't be able to open it...

      of course it's just another issue if it's plaintext while in transit(it might have not, you know).

      maybe next time not request such info on email. though, did they check anything before sending it even? that's the real loophole, me thinks.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    11. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      OpenPGP would happily decrypt for the correct (but incorrectly typed-in) address. It would not prevent a typo.

      yes, it would. Because you have to choose a public key to encrypt to. No public key for an address, it'll throw up a warning, preventing you from encrypting or sending.

      And even if it did get sent to the wrong address, but encrypted to the right key, the wrong recipient couldn't do a damn thing with it. They don't have the key...or the password for said key.

    12. Re: Not a laywer. by itzly · · Score: 1

      How would you tell the bank what public key to use ?

    13. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just checked my e-mail client, Claws Mail. It doesn't have an option to encrypt e-mail. Maybe in an extension; it's not in the client itself.

      Claws Mail supports both GnuPG and S/MIME encryption by default. The reason you don't have an option is that you haven't configured/setup claws-mail to do so.

      Furthermore, I don't know of any current standard for e-mail encryption that is widely supported.

      Any good e-mail client supports BOTH GnuPG and S/MIME.

      No idea on how to create a key

      Applications>Accessories>Passwords & Keys. File>New>PGP Key

      let alone how to securely and easily exchange keys with random recipients (like a client who calls me asking me to send them some information by e-mail).

      You can use out-of-band methods, or just use keyservers.

      The obvious way to send an encrypted mail to someone would be to pull their public key from some kind of repository (which as yet doesn't exist

      They do exist, they're called keyservers.

      [CronoCloud ~]$ keylookup --frontend=plain Rob Malda
      gpg: searching for "Rob Malda" from hkp server subkeys.pgp.net
      1024R/BA9146D5239BB413 2000-2-9
                                Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
       
      1024D/D86FEB1F6CE3D482857AEB2809C2DB458662850F 1999-7-7
                                Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
       
      Now run gpg --recv-keys <key ids>

    14. Re: Not a laywer. by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The password protected pdf thing is pretty common, they ask you to pick a password when you call to request the paperwork.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    15. Re: Not a laywer. by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Theoretically, you'd provide it when you open the account.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    16. Re: Not a laywer. by itzly · · Score: 1

      They do exist, they're called keyservers.

      Of course, if you enter the wrong e-mail address, you'll encrypt it with the wrong public key.

    17. Re: Not a laywer. by Sloppy · · Score: 2

      That's funny, because the submitter claimed the bank had her "name, address, date of birth, social security number, drivers license number and bank account information." It's almost as though they might have met her (in some form), got a lot of information from her (you can ask for all that stuff but not a fingerprint?) and authenticated her. Typos aside, you have to authenticate anyway, otherwise I could take out a loan in the submitter's sister's name, and give them my email address which they correctly enter.

      In a situation like that, where you're already authenticating, you don't even need an "infrastructure," or rather, you're building the infrastructure right there. After that meeting, the bank and the customer can sign each other and add the connection to the WoT so that the next person (who knows one of the parties but not the other) will have it.

      Oh right, the WoT. So there is already an existing infrastructure but people just aren't using it so it's still missing a lot of people.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    18. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes, there is. Grab my pubkey from Slashdot or a keyserver and you can verify this comment. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlTQ3RYACgkQnludVzJNqF1L3gCgwc4fQUhaG6UGESV+zCtHdp7U 9SEAoIuyI48gCaPmXy2aXJdCHa5VKKF7 =mq0h -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    19. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      xclip messed it up, my fault. You should be able to verify this one:


      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1

      Yes, there is. Grab my pubkey from Slashdot or a keyserver and you can verify this comment.

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
      Version: GnuPG v1

      iEYEARECAAYFAlTQ3RYACgkQnludVzJNqF1L3gCgwc4fQUhaG6UGESV+zCtHdp7U
      9SEAoIuyI48gCaPmXy2aXJdCHa5VKKF7
      =mq0h
      -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    20. Re: Not a laywer. by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      That's not how secure emails send by businesses to customers work. The customer gets a link that allows them to read the email from a website. Anyone receiving the link can read the message.

    21. Re: Not a laywer. by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, I don't know of any current standard for e-mail encryption that is widely supported. No idea on how to create a key - let alone how to securely and easily exchange keys with random recipients (like a client who calls me asking me to send them some information by e-mail).

      The beauty of Public Key Encryption is the public key tells the encryption software how to encrypt the measage in a way that only the owner of the public key can decrypt. To decrypt you need the private key which you should keep as a private personal secret. You can publish the public key anywhere, and exchange it any way you see fit. Slashdot either does or did at one time, an area where users can publish their public keys.

      Sounds to me like your getting PKE, Public Key Encryption, confused with Kerberos an encrypted authetication protocol.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    22. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1


      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1

      Supply my key in person when I open the account? Or I can just say, "Grab my key from a keyserver, the KEY ID is: 324DA85D" I could also hand them the Fingerprint of the key.

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
      Version: GnuPG v1

      iEYEARECAAYFAlTQ4ZMACgkQnludVzJNqF1ShwCfXw6mnE38KG5v+d8ymYNZAuvt
      2ygAmQE3bLKuhhSYCCDCGum8oH2y6Ooi
      =TuLn
      -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    23. Re: Not a laywer. by Opie812 · · Score: 1

      unfortunately, at some point, technology cannot overcome human stupidity. You have to do best practise type stuff for the majority of the cases, then deal with the outliers manually.

      --
      I'm not a nerd. Nerds are smart.
    24. Re: Not a laywer. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      How do you tell the bank your nameand DOB, and prove that the government has certified that someone whose face looks like yours, happens to be associated with that name and DOB?

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    25. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's what an "Address Book" is for. It's also why when you encrypt, you'll get a popup stating something like: "Encrypt to recipient "foo" with key fingerprint "bar"? That's when a mistake like the submitter's would have been caught. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlTQ5bAACgkQnludVzJNqF35fACgu7J19bzSLOqFHzOD5LOGYD30 yZ8An170YvYTwhY18kPOdu2qBJ/ftVoS =jSMl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    26. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      You can publish the public key anywhere, and exchange it any way you see fit. Slashdot either does or did at one time, an area where users can publish their public keys.

      Still does, for older UID"s. It is at http://slashdot.org/~username/... "You Must Be New Here" types are out of luck because they took out the entry form for it section where you can add your sig, bio, ICQ, etc etc.

    27. Re: Not a laywer. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Better yet, why bother with email?

      I mean, I have a super brilliant idea. The bank creates a website, and you can enter some previously-agreed to credentials, perhaps obtained while you were at the branch setting up your account. For simplicity, I'll call it an "customer ID" and a "password" for lack of a better term.

      The customer uses the web site, and logs into the bank and all dealings with the bank are through that website. Perhaps the bank can add features that shows them all their accounts with the bank in a nice list, complete with transaction history. Maybe even go so far as to *gasp*, let them make their own transactions like sending money to other people (perhaps we can all it "paying bills"?), or moving money between accounts. And heck, if there are loans, perhaps moving money can also involve putting money in those loans (call it "paying off the loan"?).

      And heck, why not have the bank offer me services like let me apply for a new credit card? Or mortgage? The forms could be simple HTML forms you submit and they can be approved in the same ways that you go into the bank, fill in the paper versions of the form and all that.

      I mean, it'll be like dealing with the branch, except online. Like an online ATM. Perhaps I'll patent this "Online ATM" idea. Or "Online Bank Branch".

      And you know, if the bank needs my attention, they either call me to come on in, or to use their Online Bank Branch to deal with the matters. Maybe they can even send me an email saying they need my attention and to please visit the Online Bank Branch. Even better, said Online Bank Branch can dangle huge notices saying I need to do things - something the real branches can't do.

    28. Re: Not a laywer. by grahamm · · Score: 1

      In the same way as the bank could provide you with its public key (or X.509 certificate) and sign all electronic communications to the account holder. If all financial institutions did this it would reduce phishing.

    29. Re: Not a laywer. by chronoglass · · Score: 1

      I have no idea why this is superior to sending a web link, but this is what they do.

      because then people expect their bank originated e-mails to have nice "click here" links in them so they can easily just click and enter their username and password at the handy site that.. wait, why did i have to login twice?

    30. Re: Not a laywer. by drew870mitchell · · Score: 1

      2/4 of my financial institutions use "secure message systems" as well - i.e., if they were going to send me this information, they have a private message system that you can only access through their website, and I'd get an email saying nothing more than "$Bank has a secure message waiting for you regarding 'Student Loans' after you log in."

    31. Re: Not a laywer. by Bangmaker · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, the medical field uses an encrypted third party for medical release forms. I have personally seen more than one of these third party providers require a key and password that were both sent to the same email. They were in separate emails, mind you, but they did not require additional authentication, such as birthday, etc, that would be unavailable without access to the individual's email address.

    32. Re: Not a laywer. by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      Sure. Banks incur fines all the time. The trick is that the amount of the fine is rarely more than a rounding error for them, so they don't give a shit and write it off as part of the cost of doing business.

    33. Re: Not a laywer. by drew870mitchell · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand - the secure message center is accessible through your normal online banking account. If you're going to gripe about remembering how to get into your online banking account, don't worry gramps, I'll stay off your lawn.

    34. Re: Not a laywer. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      That's all fine and dandy, but I could phish with Adobe Acrobat, too.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    35. Re:Not a laywer. by AaronW · · Score: 1

      You forgot, all the congress critters are in the pocket of the big banks. Most of the congress critters have been doing whatever they can to water down any oversight so banks and big businesses can fuck over consumers even more.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    36. Re:Not a laywer. by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      you know the term "lawyer" is applied to anybody who practices or studies Law, right?
      I think the term you're looking for is "Solicitor" (in England, a protected title under the Solicitors Act 1974) or "Attorney" (in the US, a protected title under the Articles of Constitution)

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    37. Re: Not a laywer. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Your idea will never catch on. ;-)

      But seriously, one of the problems with your idea, and it has actually happened in real life, is that the users fail to authenticate the bank. So some of them end up sometimes submitting HTML forms to an imposter. When you and the bank meet each other and they're getting your public key, you should also be getting their public key.

      Instead, we're using this ridiculous system where someone named verisign, whom we never met, is our introducer for a party we have already met (our bank). It's actually pretty crazy, insecure, and regressive tech, when you think about it.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    38. Re: Not a laywer. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      A follow up on my previous response:

      Ah Ha! You can get to the old style Slashdot edit-user page with the form for your gnupg/pgp public key here:

      https://slashdot.org/users.pl?...

    39. Re: Not a laywer. by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      You have forgotten about how they use the fine as a tax write-off, thereby losing nothing.

  2. Not over the phone by OolimPhon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wouldn't give out my email address over the phone.

    This is because it is fairly long and easy to miss-spell.

    Instead, I send an email to the bank, using their email address, and of course my correct addy is then available as Sender.

    This step ensures we both know we are talking to each other.

    This can only help if you are talking to a financial institution.

    1. Re:Not over the phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Gee, that's nice.

      Too bad it's still the wrong thing to do.

      The main point here is finding this banking institution far too stupid and ignorant to realize they should NOT send that kind of information over an unencrypted path.

      Financial institutions SHOULD know a thing or two about security and privacy, including those they employ. And any halfwit who has ever paid for anything online knows the importance of HTTPS/SSL, so to even point to training as the excuse is a stretch.

      OK, so how do you do it?
      Do you switch bank? If so, to which one? Do you try to educate the person on the other end? If so, how did that work out for you?

      While it seems you have all the answers it doesn't seem to me like you have a solution.

      If my damn bank is wanting to know enough information to easily steal my identity and I cannot convince them that email is the wrong method, then yes, I am not above changing banking institutions. Again, this level of incompetence cannot be trusted with my money, insured or not. It's bad enough when we have to go through the credit/debit card wringer when shit like Target and Home Depot attacks go down. I don't need my own fucking bank adding fuel to the fire because of ignorance.

      And ultimately, my answer is to drive down to the bank for this level of information exchange, which does not happen every day. 95% of people likely live within driving distance of their banking institution. If you value your information, then you'll make the effort, or you'll find an institution that will make things easier for you, the customer.

      It's changing banks. It's not like you're being evicted from your home. People do it all the time. It only sounds like some kind of monumental task because it requires the end user to actually lift more than a pinky finger.

      To be honest, we should take a more blatant stand and take business elsewhere. It's the only way financial institutions are going to wake up and realize what they are doing is wrong, and not protecting the customer, unless you plan on waiting around for Congress to see the light with technology and pass a law 20 years from now...

    2. Re:Not over the phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      any halfwit who has ever paid for anything online knows the importance of HTTPS/SSL

      No they don't. Stop assuming your peers look like the rest of the world. They don't.

      they should NOT send that kind of information over an unencrypted path.

      The path means nothing if it was sent to the wrong destination, which is what happened in this case.

    3. Re:Not over the phone by ACE209 · · Score: 1

      If they had the mail encrypted with her PGP public key, only she could decrypt it.

      --
      "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
    4. Re:Not over the phone by itzly · · Score: 1

      Good idea. Now she only has to read her public key over the phone. I'm sure that'll work great.

    5. Re:Not over the phone by JonathanR · · Score: 1

      HTTPS/SSL does no protect them from sending the information to an unintended recipient.

    6. Re:Not over the phone by itzly · · Score: 1

      After you log into the HTTPS website with your username, password, and possibly a security token, we can assume you are the intended recipient. Pretty standard for internet banking.

    7. Re:Not over the phone by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Or fax it, or take it over, or just have them get it from a keyserver.

    8. Re:Not over the phone by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, PGP implementations tend to look at the recipient address for a key.

      Which means either no key would have been used, or the wrong key. In both cases, the actual recipient who got it would have been able to read it.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    9. Re:Not over the phone by itzly · · Score: 1

      Who has a fax ? And grandma doesn't do keyservers.

    10. Re:Not over the phone by aitikin · · Score: 1

      The problem with that is, when you throw out your paperwork (even if you shred), you're giving an identity thief your account number. Paper mailers show the full account number. Ironically, internet based solutions are not supposed to.

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    11. Re:Not over the phone by guru42101 · · Score: 1

      This is very true. Them sending this information over email and unencrypted is a violation of at least one if not several federal financial privacy laws, at least from my understanding during my three year stint doing programming work for a bank.

      They should send a link to activate an account. The should use various bits of personal information to verify the user (SSN, DOB...) and preferably a random confirmation code that the representative gave the customer over the phone during the original phone call.

    12. Re:Not over the phone by CronoCloud · · Score: 1


      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1

      Using a keyserver is point and click easy. The Windows version of Kleopatra (an easy to use GUI for gnupg) is installed by default with the windows version of gnupg. The keys.gnupg.net keyserver is used by default.

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
      Version: GnuPG v1

      iEYEARECAAYFAlTQ6SwACgkQnludVzJNqF3qYQCguZImj1JJkDD6Cj2MLZpQuS09
      LT8Aniu/VvJJ0KJeuJQbPrQ8JgVypwux
      =7ag6
      -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    13. Re:Not over the phone by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, PGP implementations tend to look at the recipient address for a key.

      Yep:

      [CronoCloud ~]$ gpg --list-keys malda@slashdot.org
      pub 1024R/239BB413 2000-02-09
      uid Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
       
      pub 1024D/8662850F 1999-07-07
      uid Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
      sub 2048g/D3786AE7 1999-07-07

      or you can use names

      [CronoCloud ~]$ gpg --list-keys "Rob Malda"
      pub 1024R/239BB413 2000-02-09
      uid Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
       
      pub 1024D/8662850F 1999-07-07
      uid Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
      sub 2048g/D3786AE7 1999-07-07

      Which means either no key would have been used,

      If there is no pubkey, it won't encrypt and will throw out an error message.

      or the wrong key.

      But you have to confirm to encrypt to a key, in this case it would show the wrong name, which should be caught.

    14. Re:Not over the phone by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      If prompt is the only security offered, PGP is an enormous overkill. Just use an address book, and configure email client to prompt when sending to out of address book recipients.

      Q : CronoCloud is not in address book. Post anyway?
       
      Ans : YES slashdot, post it. Nothing sensitive in this post and it is publicly visible anyway.

      Advantages :
      1. Customer doesn't have to do anything.
      2. Financial institution IT can handle this - most likely by MS ActiveDirectory group policy or something like that.

      If confirmation prompt is not enough security, the sensitive information will be encrypted to the wrong customer's public key and send to that same wrong customer.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    15. Re:Not over the phone by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Just use an address book, and configure email client to prompt when sending to out of address book recipients.

      Oh, I agree. The bank should have been doing that anyway.

      Advantages :
      1. Customer doesn't have to do anything.
      2. Financial institution IT can handle this - most likely by MS ActiveDirectory group policy or something like that.

      Banks really ought to start issuing S/MIME certs for secure communication, or at minimum encouraging more use of GnuPG, and the Comodo free certs.

  3. The switch could make things worst by stephanruby · · Score: 1

    The address (a gmail address) is associated with a real person (not her), so someone now has all of her personal details.

    Since similar usernames can also mean similar full names, it could make identity theft that much easier for that other person bearing a similar name as your sister.

    Anyway, I hope that's not the case, and I hope that other person is not a criminal.

    1. Re:The switch could make things worst by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Since similar usernames can also mean similar full names, it could make identity theft that much easier for that other person bearing a similar name as your sister.

      On the other hand, the bank should know who they sent that information to. If I was by mistake given the keys to my neighbours home, and the person who gave me the keys knew who they gave them to, I would be an idiot to break into my neighbours house using these keys.

    2. Re:The switch could make things worst by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Of course. You'd just make a copy of the keys, give the originals back, wait a year ot so, then break in. Or sell the key to someone else.

    3. Re:The switch could make things worst by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Since my gmail is just my last name (I got in early). This has been a terrible curse - I get the email of every idiot who shares my last name. I've gotten all manner of things, from filled out job applications to spam. This has to be a common problem.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:The switch could make things worst by wolfhead · · Score: 1

      It's common for me, my gmail address is my first initial and last name. I've gotten everything from reminders about doctors appointments, to personal emails with attachments, and even receipts that included a full address and partial cc number. It's one thing if a third party gets the address wrong and sends it to me by mistake, but it's baffling when I get emails where it's pretty obvious the individual couldn't enter their own address correctly.

    5. Re:The switch could make things worst by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yes, unfortunately one of my email doppelgangers falls for all the "get rich quick" crap and fills out forms on spammy websites. I'd suspect one of my friends screwing around with me, except that I've looked up the woman and found her... she's unfortunately very real.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:The switch could make things worst by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Of course. You'd just make a copy of the keys, give the originals back, wait a year ot so, then break in. Or sell the key to someone else.

      Maybe you should move to an area where not everyone is such a douche?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:The switch could make things worst by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, anytime Gmail sees Bank of America it sent straight to the spam bin! But seriously, my wife has never and will never conduct a credit card transaction over the phone or internet, yet her cards have been fraudulently used 3 times. She also has another woman who lives near by with the same first and last name and same middle initial, her driver's licience and Social Security numbers are only one digit different, we found that out while trying to clear a miss-applied tax lien on our property, I suspect we paid a few of her medical bills as well. The grocery store decline our check thinking one of her bounced checks was from us as well.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    8. Re:The switch could make things worst by budgenator · · Score: 1

      decades ago we had the domain poiuyt.com, I was always amazed at how many people would register at different websites as poiuyt@poiuyt.com and have a password of qwerty! We should have kept the domain just for the pre-paid porn.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    9. Re:The switch could make things worst by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      the bank should know who they sent that information to.

      If the bank really knew to whom they sent the email, then sure, they'd have suspect number one if anyone looked cross at the victim's credit history. But they only know the email address they sent it too. Not quite the same as a person, and if the account is subsequently closed (and records of said account purged after X months) then the victim could have her identity sold after this date. The bank then calls up the email provider:
      "Hey, we think one of your users is a hackety mchackerson. The email address is ..."
      "Sorry, no email address like that on file"
      "But we sent all these private details of the victim to that email address a year ago!"
      "..."

    10. Re:The switch could make things worst by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      In ye olden days I would change my email address, but gmail has an amazing spam filter. Truth is, I don't even give out my gmail address - I forward other addresses to it. The fact that it receives anything at all is almost entirely due to typographical error.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  4. Technophobic bureaucrats by GenieGenieGenie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the main problems here is that people are given these technologies without understanding them completely. When I was working in the US, I made a big fuss once at my workplace about sending sensitive documents in unencrypted emails and was treated like I was hysterical and unreasonable. I managed to coerce the morons in charge to do this, but the incident was turned into a laughing matter from that point on. It's hard to convince drawer-minded bureaucrats to change their behavior when there aren't any regulations, created by other drawer-minded bureaucrats, that specify how it is that they should actually behave. I mean, god forbid, they might need to resort to independent thinking and resolution.

    1. Re:Technophobic bureaucrats by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Aside from understanding, you also have to care. And not just care; but care enough to overcome the practical inconveniences of doing it properly, especially if everyone around you doesn't understand why you are wasting time with the 'unnecessary' extra steps.

      Depending on the situation, not caring can easily be a greater obstacle than not understanding. This is the major reason why the existence of regulations carries weight. Regulations aren't very educational; but it is very, very, easy to understand 'doing X violates The Rules', while the logic behind The Rules can be of any level of complexity, or nonexistent. On the minus side, this means that arbitrarily stupid practices can be incorporated into The Rules without challenge. On the plus side, this means that brutally complex; but necessary, procedures can be laid out without the need to explain them to everyone from first principles.

    2. Re:Technophobic bureaucrats by Xest · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yep, it's amazing how many just don't get it.

      I used to work for an engineering firm doing development, but prior to that my experience was in network administration. The IT department was managed by an engineer who had zero IT experience but took the job when the firm split from it's other half years before and the other half took all the IT staff, and all his staff were just people who had moved sideways. The net result was an IT department run wholly by amateurs wanting to be professionals.

      Because I had real actual IT experience of a 10,000 user network from my previous job I tended to help them a lot, and I really didn't mind that, and they appreciated it.

      But there were some things they just wouldn't get, security was one. I told them time and time again about the complete and utter lack of security and security policy and explained the risks. I was frankly laughed at by everyone in IT and even the directors and CEO I mentioned it to. I was told I was paranoid and being silly, and why would they ever be a hacking target, because it's not like they were drilling in the arctic or suing people for copyright infringement. All this was true despite the fact I'd set up a firewall around my net facing dev servers even if they weren't going to properly defend the rest of the company and I provided them IDS logs showing many probes from countries such as China and a number of South American countries like Colombia and Argentina, where they were also active and had an office.

      It's a shame because they actually had a proper R&D department and had some genuinely unique data, designs and techniques for the field in question, I left there about 7 years ago, and in the time since I'm aware that they repeatedly became loss making, in part because of the recession, but primarily because it turns out a company in China started doing everything they could do cheaper and had to have had all their data. This didn't particularly surprise me because they had on a number of occasions had problems with Chinese sales staff probing for more information than necessary when visiting the UK offices - it seemed pretty clear someone in China was interested in entering that industry, and probes on my dev servers from China were more prolific than anything I'd seen before and since. They have now been consumed by a German company and asset stripped for the remaining useful bits of IP, but are gone as an individual company - a good hundred or so jobs were lost.

      This is the greatest example I've witnessed personally where IT security and ignoring the risks due to naivety led to tragic consequences. It's possible they wouldn't have survived the prolonged downturn regardless, but it's pretty clear that espionage accelerated their end.

      But what do you do? If they don't listen to the warnings and advice I don't see how you can help them. There was an attempt to shift the responsibility onto me ("You write the security document and implement the procedures if you think we need them"), of writing the security policy, implementing all the measures, but I wasn't there for that, I'd moved into development precisely because I wanted to get out of that and whilst I said I'd be happy to train and review I wasn't willing to let it become my full time job - I didn't see why I should be forced into a job I hated because IT didn't want to do the job they were supposed to be doing, hence why I left.

      It's a shame that so many places learn the lesson too late, or not at all in some cases (e.g. Sony).

    3. Re:Technophobic bureaucrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I solved this problem for our local authority by suggesting installing 7Zip on a workstation, limiting the shell integration to "Add to archive..." and giving written, step-by-step, screenshot-heavy instructions on how to add sensitive documents to an AES-256 encrypted ZIP archive. It takes a novice 2 minutes, a dab-hand about 20 seconds. Instructions on how to access the document are included in the signature of every email (Where you normally see "If you received this email in error, you're onbiously a corporate spy and will be hung" legal bull is found). The password is sent OOB, typically by phone call.
       
      It's not as good as an automated public-key system, but it's also about 6541561x easier to set up.

  5. It is only logical... by EzInKy · · Score: 1

    ...that banks are 100% liable in cases such as this. It is up to them to verify that any access to the accounts that they hold are made by the legitimate account holders. Seriously, think of what the world would be like if any yahoo could write a check against any account without them veryifying the authenticity of the signature.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  6. Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a firstnamelastname@gmail email address (you can see it above this post), and I get a *lot* of correspondence for other me's out there - bank details, divorce proceedings, legal proceedings, a long running internal discussion surrounding someones cock up in the Republican Party in the US, internal memos for several political parties around the globe.

    I've enjoyed free Netflix subscriptions (thanks!), invites to various exclusive clubs (not so great, most of them are in the US) and family meet ups. I know the progress of several children's schooling in Canada and the US, including an incident where the child was suspended for 3 days for kicking the teacher. I've had the ability to cancel several ISP connections, including business ones. Details of medical appointments and procedures, insurance documents etc etc.

    I've also been threatened with legal action for simply owning the email address and not handing it over - twice now. Yes, apparently there are other me's out there that think they have a right to this email address.

    So in short, without a recording of the telephone conversation, I wouldn't be so sure that it wasn't your sister that got the address wrong.

    1. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have a firstnamelastname@gmail email address (you can see it above this post), and I get a *lot* of correspondence for other me's out there - bank details, divorce proceedings, legal proceedings, a long running internal discussion surrounding someones cock up in the Republican Party in the US, internal memos for several political parties around the globe.

      I've enjoyed free Netflix subscriptions (thanks!), invites to various exclusive clubs (not so great, most of them are in the US) and family meet ups. I know the progress of several children's schooling in Canada and the US, including an incident where the child was suspended for 3 days for kicking the teacher. I've had the ability to cancel several ISP connections, including business ones. Details of medical appointments and procedures, insurance documents etc etc.

      I've also been threatened with legal action for simply owning the email address and not handing it over - twice now. Yes, apparently there are other me's out there that think they have a right to this email address.

      Are you providing feedback here, or simply promoting your new book, "99 Reasons to Change Your Email Address"?

      So in short, without a recording of the telephone conversation, I wouldn't be so sure that it wasn't your sister that got the address wrong.

      Yes, the person who owns the email address got it wrong. After saying it twice.

      Couldn't have been the keyboard jockey at the support desk who's statistically primed to make a typo.

    2. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by complete+loony · · Score: 2

      Still, none of this personal information should ever be sent unencrypted over email.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    3. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, the person who owns the email address got it wrong. After saying it twice.

      Possible. Someone I had helped with setting up an email address complained to me that it wasn't working: Emails that had been sent to her didn't arrive. Turned out she had been giving out an entirely different email address from the one we actually chose for her. That other email address existed and belonged to a different person, so that's where her emails went.

    4. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by tom17 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I too have this gmail phenomenon. There are some instances where I have received e-mails from multiple sources, all to the same 'other me' (A little more ambiguous in my case as it's first initial then surname).

      Some people just assume they have this e-mail.

      And in true spirit of 'there's an XKCD of this', this one was always pretty relevant for me lol... http://xkcd.com/1279/

    5. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by tom17 · · Score: 1

      Just fyi, and you may be aware of this as you are getting mails both with & without the period. Gmail essentially ignores them so you can send a mail to yourname@gmail.com, your.name@gmail.com or y.ourna.m....e@gmail.com and they will all work just fine :)

    6. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Just fyi, and you may be aware of this as you are getting mails both with & without the period. Gmail essentially ignores them so you can send a mail to yourname@gmail.com, your.name@gmail.com or y.ourna.m....e@gmail.com and they will all work just fine :)

      Yep. OTOH, I also have a common firstnamelastname@gmail address, and I've replied to emails to the other me with a similar polite explanation, and get angry responses back that no, firstname.lastname is different.

      Okay, sure it is... But then, how did I manage to reply to your email?

    7. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      I share a name with the son of a billionaire.

      I have given feedback on his condo housecleaning and politely declined his best friend's bachelor party blowout at some swanky ski resort. Was fun. :D Haven't received any more emails since then.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    8. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      I have a firstnamelastname@gmail email address (you can see it above this post), and I get a *lot* of correspondence for other me's out there - bank details, divorce proceedings, legal proceedings, a long running internal discussion surrounding someones cock up in the Republican Party in the US, internal memos for several political parties around the globe.

      Same here. I usually reply with a "wrong person, please verify the email address" and get a thanks in reply. No legal threats, which would get a nice FU response from my lawyer, but I did have some idiot IT admin insist, repeatedly, the address was correct and that they would continue to send me the emails. He did't seem to understand that ignoring periods in email addresses complied with the RFC no matter what he thought. I said OK, but be advised that I make no assurance as to the privacy of the information and consider anything sent to me to be mine free to use as I see fit. Given it was a private school I figured sooner or later the parent would figure out what was happening when they didn't get important emails from the school and straighten out the situation. Sure enough, the emails eventually stopped. On my end I simply sent them to junk mail marked as spam as I had no real interest in reading conversations intended as private.

      I also wound up on a political email list and after several nice polite requests to be dropped I started flame wars by pointing out every inaccuracy in the right wing rants that constituted the list. I figured if they ignored my nice requests they wanted an alternative opinion and I was happy to supply it. It was a bit like shooting fish in a barrel since they clearly were relative newbies and never had been seriously trolled, been involved in USENET flame wars, read ALT.FOLKLORE.URBAN, or in general realized this Internet Thing reached people beyond their political slant. Eventually the list owner banned me and stopped sending me the emails, ending the fun.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    9. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by ThatsDrDangerToYou · · Score: 1
      Dear Sir,
      Please change your name at once or face prosecution.

      Sincerely,
      Richard

    10. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Thats how I identify most of my email - I dont use periods in my address, every bit of the stuff I dont classify as spam but do classify as mis-addressed email (eg, the stuff mentioned in my first post) has a period in it.

    11. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by njnnja · · Score: 1

      I've had the following emailed to me inadvertently over the years:
      -Sperm/fertility analysis results from the NHS
      -Paypal payments
      -photos of people's family
      -personal emails

      That's nothing. I don't even have a common gmail address but I get:
      -Advertisements for pharmaceuticals that claim to fix my virility problems (clearly based on mixed up lab results from someone else)
      -Opportunities to collect millions through Paypal, money orders, and cashiers checks (from Nigerian royalty, even!)
      -Photos of people making a family
      But sadly I can't remember the last time someone sent me a personal email :(

    12. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      This is why I was named Tim Doerzbacher. There's only one other guy w/ the same name as me out there, and we're friends. Problem solved.

    13. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by sumdumfuk · · Score: 1

      I feel sorry for Joes.com. I use Eat@Joes.com all the time.

    14. Re:Is she sure she told them the correct address? by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      I used to have a firstname.middleinitial.lastname@gmail address, which I used exclusively for business correspondence... until some idiot in West Virginia started putting it as his e-mail address. I got a few details about him I shouldn't have, and eventually got his snail-mail address and sent him a short letter telling him to stop it. He may have (especially after I responded to an order receipt saying I didn't order anything and the guy used the wrong address, and they cancelled the order with the reason "ACCOUNT HACKED", lol), but by that time I was getting a ton of spam due to this idiot and abandoned the address.

      I now use a firstname.lastname@{customdomain}.com address for business. Since it's my domain and mine alone, there's not a risk of that, and I still give a professional air for having something "above" a gmail.com account.

  7. You have no recourse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Banks are corporations, and as such, are above the law.

    You'll be lucky if they dont charge you a fee for their screwup.

  8. You are probably SOL... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Aside from the sheer difficulty of litigating against a financial institution(If it is possible for your sister to have signed away her soul to mandatory binding arbitration in the venue of the bank's choice, those terms were probably included in at least one part of the fine print, probably several), there may not be much to go on. Not all states even require disclosure of a customer data breach, much less any particular action, standard of care, or other inconvenience.

    You might get somewhere if the bank didn't comply with Connecticut's data breach notification laws; but even that probably won't get you as far as you might want, though it might make some lower mid level peon more likely to comp her a year of credit monitoring just to go away. Any actually-toothy penalties, or not using absurdly insecure channels, though, not so much.

    1. Re:You are probably SOL... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Agree, but I'd actually go a step further and ask why things like "identity theft" even exist. Of course this was a violation of privacy, but why should somebody having all your financial details actually cause harm?

      RSA was invented 35 years ago, and we're still authenticating people based on shared secrets that they basically have to share with everybody.

      Just give everybody an ID with a smartcard in it already, and use that for authentication. Yes, it means that the government and large businesses which are already tracking everybody will have another way to track everybody. However, it means that small companies that don't already aggregate all your personal data will at least be able to do their part to prevent fraud.

    2. Re:You are probably SOL... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As best I can tell, "identity theft" is a brilliant invention on the part of institutions that are too lazy to authenticate people: as if by magic, this construction transforms fraud perpetrated against them into your problem. "Ooh, your identity got stolen, that sucks. Have fun fighting with the credit reporting agencies forever." rather than "Oh, another instance of fraud by impersonation against our pitifully weak systems. Maybe we have to do something about that..."

      I have to admit, it's elegant enough that I'd be forced to shake the hand of the person responsible before punching him in the face, just as a gesture of respect for carrying off something that audacious successfully.

    3. Re:You are probably SOL... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      "Ooh, your identity got stolen, that sucks. Have fun fighting with the credit reporting agencies forever."

      Particularly galling considering that these are the guys who basically run the credit reporting agencies.

    4. Re:You are probably SOL... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      As someone whose identity was stolen, this is spot on. My name, address, SSN, and DOB somehow ended up in someone's hands (never did find out how) and they opened up a credit card in my name. Mother's maiden name was wrong on the web form but that didn't matter to the credit card company (*cough* Capital One *cough*). By sheer luck, the thieves paid for rush delivery of the card BEFORE changing the address so the card wound up at my house. Still, the wrong mother's maiden name, immediate address change, and call by "me" asking for a $5,000 cash advance before the card was activated weren't red flags. When I called to report the issue, the card company first tried rationalizing that I or my wife actually did open it (yes, they actually argued that my wife must have opened it under my name without telling me), then admitted that it was fraudulent but wouldn't give me any details ("If we tell you what the new address on the card is and you go and shoot the people, we're liable" --- I was actually told this). Even after cancelling the card, though, they stonewalled the police. (Police have to call a special line that goes right to voicemail and is never answered.)

      All of this isn't even getting to the big credit agencies who treat your credit report like a revenue source - spreading it around to anyone who asks for it so long as they pay - and yet treats you like a liar if you report fraudulent items. YOU have to prove to THEM beyond a shadow of THEIR doubt that the item is fraudulent before they'll take it off.

      The big financial institutions simply don't care. Identity theft, to them, is a minor nuisance to be (at worst) written off as a business expense at tax time. To the rest of us, it can shatter our lives. (There are no words to express how violated I felt knowing someone did this with my information.)

      As an aside, my credit is now frozen. I can't open up new lines of credit, but neither can anyone else. If I want to get a loan or new credit card, I need to first pay each credit agency to thaw my credit file for a limited time. It's a huge pain, but is better than hearing from a collection agency one day because I wasn't as lucky the second time.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    5. Re:You are probably SOL... by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In a sane and just world, a credit reporting agency giving out incorrect information would be considered libel.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  9. IANAL but.. by jrumney · · Score: 1

    I'm not a lawyer, but I know some of you are.

    Pro tip: Anyone claiming to be a lawyer on Slashdot, or indeed on the internet in general, is probably lying. Especially if it is while they are providing you with what appears to be legal advice.

    1. Re:IANAL but.. by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anyone claiming to be a lawyer on Slashdot, or indeed on the internet in general, is probably lying.

      If they are a lawyer, they're definitely lying.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:IANAL but.. by Livius · · Score: 1

      A real lawyer could give useful information, for example, I'm not giving you legal advice, but when you hire your own lawyer, here are a few questions to start with...

  10. From a security perspective... by pehrs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Frankly, the risk of somebody doing something nefarious with the information they got it pretty low. Even on the internet the wast majority of people are nice and behave like decent human beings. Most people don't even know how they could use that information for financial gain. So if you go to a court you will have a hard time proving actually damage for what is obvious a mistake, which means any recuperation is either going to be based on good will or specific laws covering data breaches.

    In a larger perspective, you are right now encountering (and worrying about) a fundamental flaw in the way many American business work. There is a big confusion between identity, authentication and authorization. Identity (name, address, date of birth, social security number, bank account etc,) is not the same as authentication (I am the Identity) nor authorization (I am allowed to act as the Identity). None of the information the bank leaked really should be secret, and in Europe you could probably find most of it (except for bank account numbers) in public databases.

    1. Re:From a security perspective... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > the risk of somebody doing something nefarious with the information they got it pretty low.

      On a case by case baseis, yes. On a wholesale basis, the risk gets quite large, and they _script_ their attacks.

  11. Why do they email it in the first place? by houghi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just curious, but why did they email any of that information in the first place.
    Where I live, the ONLY information I ever get from my bank is that my statement is available online. That's it.
    The reason is that everybody should understand that banks don't send anything else.

    If something needs to be signed, I will download it or I will get to them and sign it there. There is no reason to send me any other information I already have.

    I know people who have asked the bank to send them papers to sign via email and the bank said no.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Why do they email it in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I suggest starting here at the FTC:
      File a complaint...
      Report the identity theft...
      Read about proper information handling that should be happening...

  12. Vaseline by irexe · · Score: 1

    'nuff said.

  13. Bank Security? by tigersha · · Score: 2

    I use a specific email address for any org that I deal with, something like @my.address.net So I can see who I get spam/malware from and I can block specific senders.

    I used a specific_bank@my.address.net for a loan application once and I got malware from that bank a year or so late. I certainly did not use the email for anything else. The BANK had a virus somewhere that harvested my email and God knows what. I transferred the loan to another institute.

    This is in Germany where there are actual laws about this.

    --
    The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
  14. How do I get BofA to STOP this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Those idiots kept sending me mail intended for some other guy whose email address is one letter off from mine. I really don't need to know about his mortgage details, and I've tried calling them up to tell them about it. The idiots on the phone go into brain vapor lock when I tell them that I'm not their customer and I don't HAVE A FUCKING ACCOUNT NUMBER.

  15. What to do... by Whatchamacallit · · Score: 1

    1. Consult an attorney in person, one with the initial interview free. Consult two more attorneys as a second opinion. If she is absolutely sure she gave the correct email to the bank then you can pursue legal action. Regardless, the bank should not have sent confidential information to an email address without some form of encryption. Most banks would send a secure message via their online website, an email just notifying you there is a secure message waiting for you, etc. I don't know of any laws that require this but it is standard financial business practice in todays world if you wish to keep your client data secure.
    2. You don't need a credit monitoring service but they can be convenient. It is possible to contact all three credit bureaus and freeze your credit, there may be a small fee involved. You can then thaw your credit temporarily when necessary. This will prevent identity thieves opening new lines of credit in your name. Anyone trying to do so will be blocked by the credit bureaus themselves. This is basically what LifeLock does on your behalf. LifeLock does offer additional services that may be of value.
    3. Make sure all your email and major online accounts have two factor authentication.
    4. Do not reuse passwords with these important online accounts

    If identity thieves breach your email account they can then reset the passwords on various online accounts as they will receive the email confirmations. Two factor authentication aims to help stop this by sending a text to your cell phone with a code. Also notifying you that someone is trying to access your account or has completed account access. At the least, you know someone did something you were not expecting.

    In future do not perform major banking loan operations online. I recently opened a loan and had to physically go to the bank in person, providing certain confidential information such as pay stubs, drivers license, and to sign the documents closing a loan. They refused to do this online and had no process to do it securely. I guess, I will keep this bank! When I had to refinance a mortgage, the bank was remote but they contracted with a local lawyer so I was able to go to that nearby office and sign papers till my hand cramped, then sign some more. They used a secure courier to send the documents to the bank's main office to complete the loan.

    I work for a financial company and they have systems in place to perform secure email. An email is sent with an encrypted attachment. The email connects back to the server. The user authenticates and the attachment is decrypted via public/private key pair on the web page. They cannot forward this email, it can only be opened by the original recipient. The encryption certificate expires and the data is wiped after 30 days. The recipient would have to print or save the content to keep it. If an employee tries to email confidential information it is forwarded through the secure email system that then encrypts the data and replies back to the employee informing them of the policy of never using email to send confidential information and that their email was sent securely on their behalf. The incident is logged and both IT security, Risk Management, Compliance and the employees manager is notified of the infraction. Remedial training would be implemented.Repeat infractions are investigated.

    A financial reputation is critical in todays world. For a company to do business in an insecure manner is a major red flag. I would switch banks. Hope the loan wasn't completed...

    1. Re:What to do... by Whatchamacallit · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, have fun watching your credit reports like a hawk for the rest of eternity. If you do encounter any identity theft, it is practically a full time job to keep on top of it and fight back. You will need to keep all correspondence forever and you will be using a lot of registered mail. Get everything in writing. Read up on the laws that protect you from debt collectors who are not allowed to harass you. Be prepared to fight the credit bureaus to remove fraudulent items off your credit report, etc. See Clark Howard's website, he has a ton of useful information about identify theft, freezing your credit, etc. http://clarkhoward.com/

  16. Use your state laws, the CFPB and Investor Relat. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I work in IT security for a bank. Your plan of attack depends on the state where you live, how your bank is chartered (state charter or federal charter) and how large your bank is with respect to the dollar amount of assets. If they are above ten billion in assets they are subject to more regulations.

    The federal laws are incredibly weak on this matter because the banks contribute so much to lobbying. The only federal regulator that scares the banks is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, www.consumerfinance.gov. They have an online complaint form. The primary regulator for banks is the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency www.occ.gov, but they are seen as weak on data protection matters. Lately they have been making a lot of noise about cybersecurity being a high priority but only from the hacking aspect and not consumer data protection.

    The CFPB and the state laws are your best legal avenue. A certified letter to them as well as to the OCC will get attention. ALWAYS send a letter by certified mail as well as using an online method. Certified mail gets a lot of attention because that is how legal matters arrive.

    It is not up to you to make sure the bank is using the correct contact information; it's up to the bank to validate it somehow and to protect the information while it is in transit and at rest on your ISP's mail server (yes, and that means no sending of unencrypted confidential docs by email). For email it's a preceding exchange of emails to validate the email address and the use of encryption on the files. You also could contact your local newspaper (if you still have one) or the local TV investigative reporter. If the bank is doing something so incredibly stupid with email they probably are doing other stupid things and TV stations love that kind of dirt. I'd also complain to your state Attorney General office in writing. New York has an incredibly proactive AG office on these matters. I'd also use the bank's Investor Relations contact information to make a complaint. That method is far, far more effective than trying to guess the CEO's email address. Every company watches their Investor Relations email or contact page closely, not just banks.

    Your bank "told" you that they do not have any type of secure document delivery service. They also told you that they do not have a properly configured, if indeed any, type of Data Loss Prevention application or program. What they did NOT tell you is whether they used encrypted email. There is a form of automatic email encryption called TLS that transparently encrypts email between servers. Gmail sends and receives TLS email by default. So it's entirely possible that they did use TLS email to encrypt it across the Internet. www.checktls.com can tell you whether your email provider and the bank can use TLS email.

    Good luck.

  17. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau by EagleRider70 · · Score: 1

    File a complaint with them at: http://www.consumerfinance.gov.... Then the bank will need to respond. But this sort of the situation is why they were created.

  18. Same as postal mail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You have the same recourse you would have if someone typed in your street address incorrectly and your private information went to someone else. Mail sent through the post is almost always unencrypted and plain text.

    Seriously, let's say the bank sent a credit card and its activation letter to the wrong address because of a typo, the recipient activates it and starts charging under your name. What will your bank do in that situation?

    I don't know the answer, but I guarantee this has happened. It's why places carry errors and omissions insurance, which I'm sure your bank has, or whatever the bank equivalent is. Just because the internet and computers are involved doesn't magically make this different from every other time this has happened in the last 100 years.

    1. Re:Same as postal mail by fran6gagne · · Score: 1

      I receive a lot of letters with sensitive informations (credit cards bills, bank communication, a mortgage contract copy once!) addressed to someone else all the time. Either because the person forgot to change their address or because the postal service made a mistake. I usually send them back with a wrong address notice but an evil person could do a lot with those.

      This is not a new phenomenon at all...

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. Do NOT do credit monitoring by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Simply call all 4 credit bureaus and lock your account. Do NOT use life-lock (pure crap).
    By locking up your data, the bureaus do not even get to sell your data. And if you are not using life-lock, nor can they.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  21. Bank Security by Old+Aylesburian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I live in the UK. My bank wants me to sign up for internet banking, but they will not use email to request an appointment. Apparently the internet is safe enough for _my_ money, but not _their_ letters.

    1. Re:Bank Security by SomeoneFromBelgium · · Score: 1

      Well. It is.
      Internet banking is made highly secure. Email is clear text (it doesn't need to be, but in practice it almost always is).

  22. You want to fight the banks? Forget it. by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    The only industry that has more power over the government than the banking/financial industry is the insurance industry - and the two are in cahoots. You won't get anywhere against them legally. Your sister should probably go request a new social security number immediately and cancel all her credit cards, then get ready to watch for activity. They banks aren't obligated to do much of anything, and they will dig in their heels to do as little of that as possible.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  23. GLBA by Pagey123 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Disclaimer: I work for a small community bank. In the US, all banks are required to adhere to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

    As such, banks are required by both their state and federal regulators to follow a series of basic security protocols as laid out in the FFIEC IT Examination Handbook. Google this document for further details.

    I'm not sure what recourse she would have, specifically, under GLBA, but if she is truly interested in following up on this mistake by the bank, the place to begin would be consulting an attorney and contacting either the FDIC or the state's Department of Financial Institutions to make a formal complaint. Banks are usually required to have a formal complaint resolution process in place, and they are required to respond to both FDIC and state regulatory complaints as well.

  24. you're fucked by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    The have more money and more lawyers, so you're fucked.

    1. Re:you're fucked by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      they don't have more money and more lawyers than the State regulator, maybe OP should give them a call. (860) 240-8100

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  25. Nah, in practice the CFPB is like the BBB by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 1

    I recently filed a complaint with the CFPB for a situation wherein a major bank processed my mortgage application manual entirely via email. They did this because they managed to waste weeks of my time and then lose my first web form based application.

    Well, I get an email response back re: second application and I'm denied because my credit scores are atrocious. This is surprising, so I immediately ask if they can give me more info, and they say no they are legally only allowed to tell me the credit scores. Huh. Ok. So I get my credit reports and for various reasons involving general credit bureau assholishness this takes several more weeks and by this point THE HOUSE WE'RE TRYING TO BUY HAS BEEN SOLD TO SOMEONE ELSE... and there are no inquiries on my reports. Did some more digging and all three FICOs are great.

    They sent me someone else's credit scores. Never pulled my credit at all. And the CFPB really could not give fuck about any of it. By all means file the complaint--it may get someone at the bank to pay attention and issue a response so as not to look like a douche--but the CFPB complaint process appears to exist only so they can gauge big picture tends, not to get involve in individual cases.

    In my case, the bank refused to respond to me at all until after I'd submitted the CFPB complaint. The official response: "Hey, you're right! Our bad. Feel free to submit a third application if you want! "

    Despite losing the god damned house (and there isn't anything remotely equivalent on the market right now) and having written documentation for everything, the lawyer I've been in contact with still isn't sure we have a case; he wants to check some more case law first.

    I think I may look into getting a shack in Montana next...

  26. Name and Shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sorry to say it, but name the financial institution and what they did on social media. It'll get picked up really quick. Hopefully then when it has enough attention, they come up with a better system to ensure secure communication.

  27. The Bank is responsible.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A Bank should never send sensitive information in an email, particularly SS# and Account numbers. The OCC will have a field day with this and likely raise a trouble status on their next audit.
    I'm surprised the Bank doesn't have a DLP system to catch this.
    In my experience, If you hire an attorney to send them letter pointing out their error and demand some resolution, you will get a useful reply.

  28. Contact the other person by Rashdot · · Score: 1

    I'd send an email to that wrong address, explaining my concerns and asking them in the most friendly way not to abuse the information they unintentionally received and to please delete the banks' email. If they answer, I'd take it from there (at least I would have some info about that person). Stay polite and don't make threats because they could cause a lot of damage in return.

    If they don't answer, then I would talk to a lawyer.

    In the mean time I would monitor my bank account(s) closely.

    --
    This is not the sig you're looking for.
  29. one and only piece of advice by ihtoit · · Score: 5, Informative

    Locate your State's Regulatory Data Commissioner. For CT, that would be the Ct. Banking Commissioner, via the Department of Banking, 260 Constitution Plaza, Hartford 06103-1800, and report as a protected data breach giving full details. They will carry it to closure. Contact there is the office of Bruce Adams, on (860) 240-8100.

    HTH.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  30. Re:Best practices? by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    best practices nothing, a breach of personally identifiable, compartmentable information is a breach of data protection Law, and that is something hte State regulator must deal with as an actionable incident. That's what he's there for.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  31. Re:good grief, over-entitled twit by plopez · · Score: 1

    "Did you know that assholes like you are why our doctors will not answer even the most trivial questions using e-mail?"

    And they should not. Giving any sort of medical advice without talking to the person directly is very risky.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  32. I don't know how enforceable this is by countach44 · · Score: 1

    But many financial institutions throw this at the end of their emails (amongst a larger disclaimer):
    "If you have received this communication in error please delete or destroy it and notify the sender immediately."

    Does anyone know if these statements hold any water?

    1. Re:I don't know how enforceable this is by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      clickthrough disclaimers, maybe?

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  33. Re:good grief, over-entitled twit by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    They e-mailed her name, address, date of birth, social security number, drivers license number and bank account information to someone else. With the first four of those, you could easily open a credit card in the person's name. I know. I happened to me. I was lucky that the thieves paid for rush delivery of the card and THEN changed the address. The card arrived at my house. If they didn't do this, the first I'd have heard of it would have been when the collection agency banged on my door demanding the $5,000+ that I owed them. (No, collection agencies don't care that you weren't the one who opened the account. Your name is on the list so you'd BETTER pay or they'll make your life a living hell.)

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  34. Why on earth by email? by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

    Why on earth did she EVER agree to receive the information by email? When I refinanced I told them no when they asked about email. Either a secure document serving website where I could login and download the documents (which they had, surprise surprise) OR they go by fax. People don't generally know how to use email encryption properly, especially those that work in the mortgage area. I'd rather fax it 20 times than email it.

  35. Re:good grief, over-entitled twit by sribe · · Score: 1

    And they should not. Giving any sort of medical advice without talking to the person directly is very risky.

    Bullshit. Follow-ups with existing patients, clarification of what was said during a visit, are perfectly appropriate for email.

  36. Re:good grief, over-entitled twit by cdrudge · · Score: 2

    Email? Not sure about. How do you verify who you are with many people having unsecured email accounts on home computers, cell phones, etc.

    My doctor has a secure portal where I can ask questions, read replies, see what my recent prescriptions were for and dosage, find out results of lab work if the doctor has released them, etc. Quite handy. More inconvenient than just email, but a lot better than nothing.

  37. Encryption the easy way by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Many places that handle this type of data will encrypt it and direct you to a https link to download it. When you hit the site, you'll be asked for a password that was given to you by the folks on the phone. It will then decrypt the contents and allow you to download it right to your machine.

    They know most folks are incapable of implementing or even understanding encryption, thus the simplified method above.

    Banks ( and any institution that handles SPI data ) will get their ass handed to them for exposing that data. ( and they know it ) SPI data is the primary reason all laptops for my company are full disk encryption. Losing a laptop isn't news. Losing one with 100k Social Security numbers, bank accounts, or Customer names, passwords, addresses DOES make the news.

    They're paranoid about it ( and rightfully so ) and will fire you on the spot if your actions expose SPI data of any kind.

    *SPI = Sensitive Personal Information

  38. Call. A. Lawyer. by whitroth · · Score: 1

    I have a friend. Back when he was building a house, he was fighting the bank for the mortgage. His mom was co-signing... and some moron at the bank (can't remember if it was Wells Fargo or BoA) emailed ALL THEIR DEPOSIT records, with account info, to them in an email.

    They got a lawyer. The bank paid 100% to a) change all of their accounts, b) all costs incurred by them to make changes elsewhere.

    Call a lawyer. I mean, do you actually *trust* banks (look up "Great Recession", 2008, subpriime lending....)

                  mark

  39. Well, I work at a bank by stungod · · Score: 1

    Fairly high up the food chain in IT, actually. And while it's too late in this case, I'd say that any bank telling you that they don't have a secure method for exchanging sensitive data is not a bank you ought to be doing business with.

    There's a whole raft of regulatory compliance and audit requirements that US financial institutions are subject to, and the one in question here is GLBA (Graham-Leach-Bliley Act), which governs how sensitive information must be handled. I'd place a call to the FFIEC and either the FDIC (if it's a bank) or the NCUA (if it's a credit union) and file a complaint. Trust me, regulators don't mess around when applying the smackdown to a bank for something like this.

    The CFPB doesn't really have much to do with a bank until it's bigger than $10 Billion in assets, and anybody that big isn't making these mistakes. This is bush-league stuff and the bank in question could use a wake-up call in the form of a fine of MOU so they don't screw other people.

  40. Re:What was she thinking?!?! by JoeIsuzu83 · · Score: 1

    Oh, now I'm a troll because I thought some personal responsibility ought to apply here.

    Never mind, she should contact an contingent fee attorney. Maybe even file a class action suit on behalf of all who aren't paying attention to their personal data.

    Jack

  41. Re:free market by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

    Indeed. But the OP has not provided the name of the bank? Why not? Afraid of the unknown potential consequences of doing so, I'll guess. This is the problem a libertarian would address.

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
  42. Doesn't scale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I don't want every single institution and business and person I communicate with to require me to log into their own fucking website to communicate with them. It doesn't scale. How many fucking passwords am I supposed to memorize al-fucking-ready?

  43. Wow if I did anything like that by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    I'd be drawn and quartered, end of contract. Especially for a financial institution.

    Every customer I've ever had made it crystal clear what the PII requirements were, and they were no joke.

    I guess it's different if you're not in software?

  44. Re:I find it sickening by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    Air France 447 was a mistake. To pick one of MANY such mistakes that COST LIVES.
    Mistakes are ALWAYS actionable.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel