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EU Preparing Vast Air Passenger Database

Posted by Soulskill on from the come-spy-the-friendly-skies dept.

jfruh writes: Despite privacy concerns and doubts over its usefulness, a plan to track passengers entering or leaving the European Union in a series of national databases is likely to become reality by the end of the year. Legislation working its way through the European Parliament will authorize European nations to set up databases of the sort already in use in the UK, and to share information with each other. All the EU parties except the Greens are in favor.

49 of 73 comments (clear)

  1. A database... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...of Vast Air Passengers? You mean Americans?

    1. Re:A database... by vic-traill · · Score: 1

      ...of Vast Air Passengers? You mean Americans?

      Well played sir!

      --
      [17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
    2. Re:A database... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So up to know the EU has NOT been keeping track of who arrives and leaves??? I did some genealogical research a few years back, and America has these records dating back to at least the 1870s. Crossing an international customs border is not a private affair, and I always just assumed it was permanently recorded everywhere in the world.

    3. Re:A database... by kevinbr · · Score: 2

      If I fly from France to Germany, I do not need a passport. There is no passport check. Just some form of ID when checking in. Voila.

    4. Re:A database... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      If I fly from France to Germany, I do not need a passport. There is no passport check. Just some form of ID when checking in.

      When you fly from France to Germany, you are not "entering or leaving the European Union", so this proposal would not affect you. When I travel from California to Arizona, I don't need a passport either.

    5. Re:A database... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      some form of ID.

      Yes somebody is keeping a list. And anyway, logging air passengers doesn't require a vast database by today's standards.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    6. Re:A database... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ah but you see black people have no say or choice they are what they are . Americans have a choice and deliberately chose to remain Obese and ignorant.

    7. Re:A database... by gerddie · · Score: 1

      So up to know the EU has NOT been keeping track of who arrives and leaves???

      Apparently yes, in December, when I went to India when exiting the EU in Madrid they just looked at the passport, compared the face that the boarding pass is valid, without any further check (e.g putting the document on some kind of reader).

      Crossing an international customs border is not a private affair

      But it should be.

    8. Re:A database... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Apparently yes, in December, when I went to India when exiting the EU in Madrid they just looked at the passport, compared the face that the boarding pass is valid, without any further check

      In this case they already have the database (the flight manifest). They were just verifying that it is correct.

    9. Re:A database... by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      No no we are vast too in Europe.

    10. Re:A database... by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Or British, or Hungarians, or ...

      http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/s...
      http://www.medicalnewstoday.co...

    11. Re:A database... by prefec2 · · Score: 2

      In Germany we all carry a personal ID and have to provide an address to the state where we can be contacted (which is also used for elections). However, these information are only allowed to be used in specific cases. To protect us we have data protecton laws. This registration allows the state to autoregister you for elections, handle your taxes etc. However, recording data about my traveling is not necessary for the state and I doubt that it is compatible with EU treaty regulations and local constitutions. Courts already invalidated laws to collect mobile phone data and meta-data. Having an ID is quite practical. If the police stops you and you have an ID, they are only allowed to check it. If you have the time you can ask for the cops ID as well ;-)

    12. Re: A database... by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      No it is not. Also you can still by bleach and other household cleaners which can be weaponized. They do not rule out notebooks or other battery carrying devices.

  2. Ship. by feufeu · · Score: 1

    I'd never have thought to really contemplate this as a real option, but now going by ship doesn't seem an antiquated only as it was before.

    1. Re:Ship. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

      Ship is particularly convenient when going to countries like Swiss where there's no sea around.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    2. Re:Ship. by GNious · · Score: 1

      Airship!

    3. Re:Ship. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Ship is particularly convenient when going to countries like Swiss where there's no sea around.

      You can take a ship across Lake Geneva from France. There is a regularly scheduled passenger ferry.

    4. Re:Ship. by feufeu · · Score: 1

      Looks like I've gotta invent rivers first, or maybe - gasp - take the car to go into Switzerland !

    5. Re:Ship. by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Or trains. In Europe we have trains. ;-) especially in Switzerland, Italy, Germany, and France.

  3. The greens... by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 3, Funny

    All the EU parties except the Greens are in favor

    In fact, the greens are against any form of transportation in the first place.

    1. Re:The greens... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      The real greens cannot really move anyway.

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      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    2. Re:The greens... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Actually, the Greens are one of the few parties to take privacy issues seriously. Same in a lot of EU countries. Too bad their ideas about the economy, society and even environmental policy are mostly rubbish.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:The greens... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Actually, the Greens are one of the few parties to take privacy issues seriously.

      In America, both the Greens and the Libertarians have strong stands. As a general rule, a party's advocacy of limits to government power, are inversely proportional to the likelihood of that party actually exercising that power. It is easy to be principled when you are powerless.

    4. Re:The greens... by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I should have specified that the Greens are against any form of ARTIFICIALLY POWERED transportation. I have even heard a green saying that we should limit our physical activities because, you know, we have to consume more food when we do exercise, and food production puts great strain on natural resources.

      Well, can't we just actually live and let Darwinism do its job?

    5. Re:The greens... by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      This is not true. The Left is also against it.

  4. A passengers DB by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So before that was done unofficially. Next, that will be official. The difference is that little by little people tend to get used to be traced everywhere (and this time again, the move is probably granted thanks to the terrorist attacks in Paris a monh ago)

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  5. All the EU parties... are in favor. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    All one of them ,eh? Just goes to show there is wide spread unity amongst the authoritarians, no matter what their particular political affiliation. And the Americans needn't bother looking for a 'third party' if they're going to let it do just like the other one does.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  6. Failure mode? by KlomDark · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps we are entering another species failure mode that we will have to solve for. Computers and the internet are great gifts to humanity, but it seems lately to have taken a bad turn. Instead of uplifting the human race, it's starting to look more like a trap.

    I've spent my whole life involved with computers and networking. Now at times I wonder if I will eventually regret my contributions to building this better mouse trap.

    I personally find that the risk of a dark totalitarian period that lasts for hundreds or thousands of years to be more threatening than any terrorist threat these dark systems purport to protect us from.

    Humanity needs to figure out how we want to use these new tools. All this surveillance mode machinery is not good. It just takes one evil dictator to get control of this to trap us in ten thousand years of darkness.

    It's a sad fearful reality we are marching towards these days.

    1. Re:Failure mode? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      that's completely the wrong thought path.

      technology will soon be (if it isn't already) at a point where it will be impossible to escape surveillance. so stop worrying about that. the problem isn't that you are being surveilled, it's what can be done with the data. fight for laws about how the data can be used, and stop worrying about the existence of the data itself.

    2. Re:Failure mode? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      technology will soon be (if it isn't already) at a point where it will be impossible to escape surveillance. so stop worrying about that.

      Uh, no, it won't. The harder the spies try to spy on us, the harder we work to avoid it.

      Besides which, a world where everyone was spied on at all times and all laws were enforced automatically as a result would collapse within two generations.

    3. Re:Failure mode? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      the harder we work to avoid it

      you are already trackable, you know that right? this new EU law is only about formalizing / standardizing the process. you've already lost. do you really think that you could travel to a foreign country and back and be able to hide it?

    4. Re:Failure mode? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      I'd be willing to believe in this doomsday scenario if human weren't so protective over what they already have. Because extra surveillance doesn't affect day to day life/business for 99% of the population it is not perceived as a treat to what has already acquired. The concept of privacy has always been abstract, more so in recent years.

      To suggest that a dictatorship could set in without public outburst is something I personally do not foresee happening.

    5. Re:Failure mode? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      do you really think that you could travel to a foreign country and back and be able to hide it?

      In a couple of decades, travel will be considered tediously quaint, when we can just rent a body and operate it remotely in that foreign country.

      You clearly haven't even thought about what kind of technologies will be commonplace before the end of the century, and how they'll make surveillance extremely difficult.

    6. Re:Failure mode? by chihowa · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty defeatist attitude, in addition to being short-sighted.

      The process of legalizing/formalizing something completely changes how, and to whom, it is applied. While you may be tracked right now, it doesn't impact your daily life as much, and in nearly as many ways, as it would if it was formalized.

      You have the chance of being mugged right now, but you know your life will change if mugging was legalized. It's a bit of a simplistic analogy, but it is still disturbingly accurate.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    7. Re:Failure mode? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      You clearly haven't even thought about what kind of technologies

      no, i'm just not a fool about the pace of technology. i really hope you are right though, it's a nice thought that i'll be able to download into a fresh new body before i die.

      if you think that in "decades" we'll be able to grow bodies in VATs, and download our minds to them, or otherwise have free-roaming android avatars that either have downloaded minds or are remote controled from anywhere in the world, i have a nice bridge to sell you.

      moreover, do you really think we'd develop such technologies, but we'd remain stagnant, or regress our ability to track these things?

      moreover, do you think you'll be able to afford such technology?

      and yes, clearly, i have thought about these technologies,
      http://www.amazon.com/Altered-...

    8. Re:Failure mode? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      The process of legalizing/formalizing something

      being formalized is a good thing, because the limits / uses of that data are publicly part of that formalization. otherwise you are just in an arms race with unscrupulous corporations that will of course win in the end. but then again, maybe your PGP will protect you huh?

      You have the chance of being mugged right now, but you know your life will change if mugging was legalized. It's a bit of a simplistic analogy, but it is still disturbingly accurate.

      right, because having my name in some database as having traveled to Switzerland is pretty much the same as being mugged. touché my friend.

    9. Re:Failure mode? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      the harder we work to avoid it

      you are already trackable, you know that right? this new EU law is only about formalizing / standardizing the process. you've already lost. do you really think that you could travel to a foreign country and back and be able to hide it?

      Unless a person completely divorces themselves from civilization, they are trackable. And there really isn't much to be done about it.

      And it can even be used to vindicate a person:

      http://www.thestar.com/news/cr...

      http://abc13.com/archive/94415...

      http://www.keyetv.com/news/fea...

      This one I thought particularly appropriate:

      http://blogs.villagevoice.com/...

      Since surveillance cameras are everywhere, if you are ever falsley accused, start handing out the subpoenas. In short, this guy was accused, arrested, and identified in a lineup as a "serial groper"

      But after going through identifiable records from his office, email records, bank transactions, credit cards transaction, and vendors, as well as a more old fashioned alibi in one accusation, charges were dismissed, because it was proven that the perp was not him.

      Which is not to say that I like being on camera, or being able to assemble my whereabouts all the time, all that much - but I damn well will use them to my advantage if need be.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:Failure mode? by chihowa · · Score: 1

      You've only sidestepped the issues raised and made the most superficial objection to the analogy.

      I don't know where you learned to fence, but if this response is indicative of the debate to follow, I'll look for intellectual stimulation elsewhere. I don't mind if you look at my departure as a win; only the tiniest ego would be able to do so.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  7. At least I live in Canada by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    and its large enough to have rain forests, deserts and cold so that I never had to visit oppressed parts of the world like the US and Europe. Now I will get to exploring Canada after I get out from my 1 year mandatory sentence for growing 6 cannbis plants.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:At least I live in Canada by future+assassin · · Score: 1

      Yah looking forward to having my Bronco shipped to PEI and then riving it back across Canada.

      --
      by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  8. Forgot WWII already apparently by blue9steel · · Score: 1

    The consensus view was that Fascism wasn't such a hot idea, why do they keep trying to re-implement it?

    1. Re:Forgot WWII already apparently by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      You need to review the meaning of Fascism. EU, US are very far from Fascism.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...

    2. Re:Forgot WWII already apparently by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      Because the uniforms were so much more stylish than everyone else's?

    3. Re:Forgot WWII already apparently by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Definitely one of the upsides.

    4. Re:Forgot WWII already apparently by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      I'm well aware of what the definition of Fascism is. The EU and US are not currently Fascist, they're certainly moving in that direction. Currently I'd describe them as corporatist, which is admittedly only two sides of the Fascist triangle, with labor being the missing component. In this case I was referring more to the feature of intrusive national government and priority of the state over the individual.

  9. All the parties are in favor... by stoploss · · Score: 1

    All the EU parties except the Greens are in favor.

    If that's true, then "WTF, Pirate Party?"

    1. Re:All the parties are in favor... by oln · · Score: 1

      The Pirate Party MEP is part of the Green group, and naturally voted against. So did the people in the European United Left–Nordic Green Left, part of the EFDD group including UKIP, and most of the non-grouped far-right parties. So the article is wrong, it's not only the greens that are opposed. You can see how people voted on votewatch.eu

  10. GUE-NGL by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    GUE-NGL (left wing) also had 100% of its MEP voting against the resolution, according to votewatch.eu.

  11. Low turn-out by tgv · · Score: 1

    And still they wonder why the turn-out for EU elections is so low.