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FedEx Won't Ship DIY Gunsmithing Machine
An anonymous reader writes Last fall, Defense Distributed — the company created by Cody Wilson of 3D-printed gun fame — announced a DIY gunsmithing machine called the Ghost Gunner. Now, FedEx is refusing to ship the device, saying there are laws or regulations that would prohibit them from shipment. A FedEx spokesperson said, "This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals. We are uncertain at this time whether this device is a regulated commodity by local, state or federal governments. As such, to ensure we comply with the applicable law and regulations, FedEx declined to ship this device until we know more about how it will be regulated." Wilson argues, "They’re acting like this is legal when in fact it’s the expression of a political preference. The artifact that they’re shipping is a CNC mill. There’s nothing about it that is specifically related to firearms except the hocus pocus of the marketing."
There are no regulations covering firearms manufacturing equipment; at least not YET. They are just covering their asses.
I have worked for fedex for 15 years. I assure you this is not a hippie liberal company.
Corporations are naturally risk adverse. And it doesn't matter if it's a marketed mill... we can't ship a ball bearing certain places if you tell us it can be used on a tank. Regulations are what they are.
Can't they refuse to ship anything on whatever grounds they want, or are they mandated to carry anything that they aren't banned from shipping?
There are parallels that can be drawn to how devices capable of home recording were viewed when they were new.
The manufacturer has chosen to market this device specifically for the production of firearms. They do not appear to have marketed this as a general-purpose device. It's reasonable to expect that purchased units will be used for the purposes of producing firearms. It doesn't really matter much that the device is capable of producing other goods, that's not how it's being sold.
Mills, lathes, and other metalworking equipment sold as general-purpose machine-shop equipment don't have this problem because they're not being marketeted for this specific purpose.
This contrasts well with the situation of home recording because devices capable of making recordings but intended to be general-purpose machines (ie, tuning for live watching, playback of commercial tapes, etc) were marketed differently than devices sold specifically for duplication or mass recording.
FedEx is free to choose with whom they'll conduct business. If they feel they are taking-on risk by shipping these machines then they're free to not ship them, like how cutomers and businesses are free to use anyone else that will take them to do such shipping.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Lol. If he just told the FedEx rep that he was shipping 1'x1'x1' aluminum mills, there would be no problem. This is what he gets for over sharing. It's like telling police officers you smoke weed.
Intent matters. You sell a bong as for tobacco and you're fine - you sell it as "FOR GETTING HIGH ON MARIJUANA" and you're in the shit. Argue with the law if you want (although the law makes a lot more sense than geeks like to think), but don't argue from a position of ignorance.
So here's a guy who calls himself a "libertarian", declaring that it's not legal for a private entity to refuse to do business with him based on their political views.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
ones explicitly protected by the US Constitution are ignored?
You mean like how you're ignoring the First amendment? Assuming this actually is Fedex taking a political stance on your worst nightmare and not just risk aversion, where in the second amendment does if force private businesses to ship equipment designed for firearms manufacture?
In a related story, rest easy with that 45 under your pillow because you've won the war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...
Now can we focus on real problems?
sex toy industry... It's not hard.
I see what you did there....
Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
It's almost like he was more interested in publicity than in actually shipping a product.
People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
well now everyone knows he has a product. and i doubt UPS will refuse his money. so it is a win win for them, while at the same time painting fedex in a bad light (regardless of this being their "right")
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
He's obviously part of that Anonymous group, and on the watch list.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Yes, but the Amendment's delivery is delayed due to bad weather. FedEx apologizes for the inconvenience.
Bark less. Wag more.
Unless the whole point is to create publicity by deliberately creating wedge issues. In other words, it doesn't matter what FedEx said, because now I have a great advertising platform - buy my stuff!.
Like Apple developers who deliberately code something that will not pass muster to cry foul and say "oh, we have an Android version buy that!".
The goal is not force companies to act in ways you want them to act so you can create attention for yourself. "Poor me, the big bad FedEx won't ship my stuff! Oh, btw, I have a new gunsmithing machine! You can buy it today!". That's how I read this advertisement.
That's what it really is - an ad. Creating a wedge gives you publicity that can be worth several million dollars and be far more effective.
I am no fan of firearms and would take them out of your (not cold and dead) hands if I could. That said, isn't FedEx a common carrier? There are rules for such things.
Bruce Perens.
But yeah, they also have some severe restrictions on what they're not allowed to carry, and they err way on the side of caution. If you told them "this is a block of lead, and I plan to melt it for bullets", they may well refuse, and by some legal interpretations they might *have* to.
http://www.fedex.com/us/freigh...
Item 780, section B-6:
Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
So I'm damn sure the implied use for the lead wouldn't keep it from being shipped. There may be other reasons, but nothing due to bullets.
However, you can't ship:
Money (and, apparently, anything like it)
Alcohol
Porn
postage stamps
letters, with or without stamps
valuable paper of any kind
fresh food
Articles of extraordinary value (extraordinary value is defined as items valued in excess of $50 per pound per package).
artwork
film, photos, negatives, etc
jewelry
tobacco products (unless shipped from and to a licensed dealer/distributor)
I found a few of those to be kinda surprising, but almost all of them tend to fall under some loose umbrella of "stuff you could use in place of money". The other excludes make sense in other ways... like "More than 100 pounds of NA3178, Smokeless Powder for small arms on any motor vehicle" and other "we don't want to blow up our drivers and the neighborhood around them" type stuff; or fresh food, where they probably just don't want rotting food attracting animals and bugs and generally being nasty.
They also won't ship firearms, unless it is from and to a dealer/distributor. This is where I think the gunsmithing machine hits a grey area. I'm 99.9% sure there wouldn't have been any problem at all if they just said it was a CNC mill, which it is. If it can pop out a complete firearm upon arrival and being plugged in, then it's just like sending the firearm (it can't do that, but they don't know that, and it says it'll make guns).
I ordered bulk .22 Cal. ammunition online. Federal Express shipped it to my rural address. It was in a box labeled "ORM-D" and had a label indicating "contains ammunition or small firearms". The left the box down by my road at my (closed) gate that they have instructions to open. OTOH, my stock broker sent me a "thank you" gift of some nice wine. That required "a signature of an adult over age 21 that is not under the influence of alcohol".
I got a laugh out of both events.
FedEx is probably playing CYA.
The problem is that DD's box is designed to machine "80% receivers" to completion. The reason FedEx is playing CYA is because an 80% receiver is legally a "non-gun" in the eyes of the BATFE (until the policy gets changed) and anyone - and I mean ANYONE - can buy an 80% receiver because it's just a lump of metal. It's the machining of a couple of holes, pockets, and chambers that convert an 80% receiver into a firearm. Yes, the BATFE pretty much defines a firearm as the part of that can hold the fire control group/magazine/barrel. Which is why the BATFE looks at some of the laws of California (PRC - Majority of US Constitution/Bill of Rights/Federal Law considered invalid there because they're "special") and says "Huh?"
Anyway, since anyone can buy a lump of metal called an 80% receiver - including minors, etc - and also purchase (if they have the money) a "takes no skill to machine 80% receiver into a firearm" box, it's pretty obvious that a minor - or someone else who is disallowed purchase of a firearm - can buy both and fabricate a AR-15 type platform. So FedEx is likely looking at this and going "Yeeks! I don't want to get sued."
Now, machining an 80% receiver to 100% - which takes some skill - in your own home is perfectly legal, assuming you are allowed to possess firearms. Machining 300 or 80% receivers to 100% in your own home is perfectly legal - if you are allowed to possess firearms and do not intend to sell them - but if people [BATFE, local cops, etc] might look at you REAL funny if you do. You can even sell a firearm you manufacture - however, there's a bunch of laws pertaining to how many you can sell, and you can't build with the intent to sell, etc. It all gets into a "can't disprove that you manufactured with intent to sell" situation unless you have a handy piece of paper called an FFL - but if you are an FFL holder, you're not likely to be "manufacturing" with one of DD's "single purpose" CNC machines. FFL'd manufacturers usually have real tools, or connections with other manufacturing companies to get the parts that they want.
The gray area that likely has FedEx a little freaked is the "anybody can do this" combined with the "push a button" features - and the habit of people suing everybody and everything related. Remember, in the US there are the "Can't sue a manufacturer for producing something that does what it is supposed to do" laws which shields companies like Colt, Bushmaster, and other from wrongful death suits, etc. So, in order to prevent the inevitable "sue the delivery company for shipping a device to this guy who built this firearm and then sold it to this other guy who used it to kill a dozen people" lawsuit brought by ambulance-chasers.
I find the "we're not going to ship" response from FedEx entirely understandable, especially considering the "sue everyone" behavior endemic to the US legal system. Remember, under the US legal system, if you can sue your competitor - or person with an opposing viewpoint often enough - you can legally bankrupt them to the point where they are no longer in business - or if they are a person, homeless and disenfranchised. This is not to say I approve of FedEx's decision/policy. But my approval or disapproval of FedEx doesn't matter, since I am just someone posting as Anonymous Coward.
Thats why i only post from stolen tablets on the free WIFI at various fast food places like McDonalds using VPN accounts purchased with stolen credit cards.
Oh, and i also wear a tin foil hat- not to be confused wiyh the cheap aluminum foil hats.
It's like telling police officers you smoke weed.
No... but it is like labeling the pipes your store sells as "hash pipes". Some stores (possibly only in certain states, especially now that pot is legalized in some states) will happily sell you bongs and small glass pipes and bubblers and one hitters etc etc etc so long as you do not refer to them by any of their cannabis-associated names. Some go a step further, and will ask you to leave the store if you do refer to them by those names, pretending that "they are not in the business of selling paraphernalia". This is a WHOLE LOT like that (though I think the store may have got in trouble with the law _before_ instituting that policy).