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5 White Collar Jobs Robots Already Have Taken

bizwriter writes University of Oxford researchers Carl Benedikt Frey and Michael Osborne estimated in 2013 that 47 percent of total U.S. jobs could be automated and taken over by computers by 2033. That now includes occupations once thought safe from automation, AI, and robotics. Such positions as journalists, lawyers, doctors, marketers, and financial analysts are already being invaded by our robot overlords. From the article: "Some experts say not to worry because technology has always created new jobs while eliminating old ones, displacing but not replacing workers. But lately, as technology has become more sophisticated, the drumbeat of worry has intensified. 'What's different now?' asked Leigh Watson Healy, chief analyst at market research firm Outsell. 'The pace of technology advancements plus the big data phenomenon lead to a whole new level of machines to perform higher level cognitive tasks.' Translated: the old formula of creating more demanding jobs that need advanced training may no longer hold true. The number of people needed to oversee the machines, and to create them, is limited. Where do the many whose occupations have become obsolete go?"

257 comments

  1. #1 slashdot article submitters by sterlingcrispin · · Score: 5, Informative

    clickbait article is clickbait

    Financial and Sports Reporters
    Online Marketers
    Anesthesiologists, Surgeons, and Diagnosticians
    E-Discovery Lawyers and Law Firm Associates
    Financial Analysts and Advisors

    1. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by David_Hart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, PURE click bait...

      How did this get past the editors?

    2. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      How did this get past the editors?

      They've been replaced by robots already.

    3. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Everything but the mail room, huh?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by davester666 · · Score: 2

      replaced? when were they not robots with eliza-level AI?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    5. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Sorry couldn't resist but you dog eat dog ideas of economics just beg for that response.

      Employment has largely gone into minimum wage service industries because a bunch of douche wankers want to order people about, you know, all those clinical narcissists and psychopaths that everyone would normally be better of ignoring but of course psychopathic and narcissistic mainstream media has pushed out those ideas of somehow being of value in their world of selfishness, greed and poseur status. So the big scream is on eliminating or reducing minimum wage so that ass hats can have as many service types at their beck and call, bowing and scrapping.

      Reality is, a lot of people balk when service industries is the only choice and well eating the rich (and not in the fun way for the rich), becomes far preferable. Watch out for those unemployed white collar types, they are really into plotting and scheming and when they become economically disadvantage, watch them rouse the mob in order to start introducing the rich who made them unemployed and demand their fawning service to https://www.youtube.com/watch?....

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by icebike · · Score: 0

      Until nobody else wants to own a yacht, a green house for their own vegetables and fruits and whatever artificial meat you want and your own private space station there will not be unemployment unless it is created by government. Unemployment is created by government rules, laws, taxes, nothing else. Absent rules, laws and taxes designed to stand in your way, when you are trying to build a new business, all you are limited by is your imagination.

      Can't see people buying in to a life where they get a stipend from the government to sit around and do nothing.

      Oh, wait.. /Looks at neighbors....

      Hmmm. I can't think of a single thing they are qualified to do, except breed.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    7. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by frup · · Score: 1

      When there are no jobs, provided we can feed everyone, we essentially have communism. The worker becomes the artist and the commodity is culture. The billionaires of the world would prefer the people to become their cattle however. Marked with their brands. No doubt we'll have a massive population crash before then, we are still just bacteria in the Petri dish that is the earth. And like the wild horse, I am slowly being broken down into complete apathy.

      Rulers who seek to rule and make rules, are the worst kind. They proselytize their perspective as if they are somehow more important than the rest of us. Their feudal corruption manifesting deep into the core of their condition. War mongers intent on murder, worse than the backyard serial killer. All for lust and greed.

      The benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient judge would surely destroy us all - for own sake. Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust, it all means nothing. Who gives a fuck what happens? We all die some day. We are no more important in the grand universe than the atoms that make it.

      Nihilism for the win.

    8. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by jandersen · · Score: 3, Funny

      Another place where robots might be a good replacement is at the middle management level - one of the big problem with managers is that they so often combine lack of people skills with absence of useful knowledge and inability to empathise, and introducing robots could improve on all three fronts. It certainly couldn't get worse.

    9. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Until nobody else wants to own a yacht, a green house for their own vegetables and fruits and whatever artificial meat you want and your own private space station there will not be unemployment unless it is created by government. Unemployment is created by government rules, laws, taxes, nothing else. Absent rules, laws and taxes designed to stand in your way, when you are trying to build a new business, all you are limited by is your imagination.

      Dear sir the kind of ever growing economic trend that should be able to satisfy every human desire it's a recurring fantasy, but it's no more than a fanatsy (and a wild one IMHO). Besides supply and demand there are other factors that come into play such as resources availability, ecological impact, manufacturing process reengineering and sociological factors. Believe me, you can't produce a yacht for every living human on this planet, you'll end with running out of wood, metals, oil, potable water, breathable air and space well before even reaching half of your goal (can you really picture this? 4.5 billions yachts floating on the sea?). Sure, you can discover new materials, sources of energy and production processes but guess what? You need huge amounts of money to do so and you don't have any guarantee of success (what?! no near term profit?! NO WAY!!!).

           

    10. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tehcyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unemployment is created by government rules, laws, taxes, nothing else.

      Unemployment is a function of capitalism in order to create fear and a willing pool of people prepared to do awful jobs for rubbish pay.

      With no government intervention, corporations would wipe out trade unions and any form of worker protection, and pay even less than they do now, as a near-starvation wage is better than actually starving.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by itzly · · Score: 0

      With no government intervention, corporations would wipe out trade unions and any form of worker protection, and pay even less than they do now, as a near-starvation wage is better than actually starving.

      The unemployed aren't actually starving right now, and they are free to sit in the park on a sunny day. Sounds better than be kept as slaves inside a factory for 24 hours a day.

    12. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tehcyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With no government intervention, corporations would wipe out trade unions and any form of worker protection, and pay even less than they do now, as a near-starvation wage is better than actually starving.

      The unemployed aren't actually starving right now, and they are free to sit in the park on a sunny day. Sounds better than be kept as slaves inside a factory for 24 hours a day.

      Yes, but the reason that the unemployed aren't starving is precisely because the government pays them something.

      In the libertarian/free market utopia, they would be free to starve to death in the park on a sunny day.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    13. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by I+kan+Spl · · Score: 1

      Fixed...

      Jobs being replaced by robots:

      Slashdot editor
      Financial and Sports Reporters
      Online Marketers
      Anesthesiologists, Surgeons, and Diagnosticians
      E-Discovery Lawyers and Law Firm Associates
      Financial Analysts and Advisors

      --
      My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    14. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 2

      I see the Marxists have mod points today. Mod parent up! He is exactly right, and his post is in no way flamebait!

    15. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      No, you have Eudaimonia. Communists thought you could get there by pointing guns at people, but the truth is that you can only get there by incentivising people to make it so, and the simplest way to do that is to let them do what they want without harming others (prosecute or sue them for harm after the fact and the harm will stop fast) and let them keep the fruits of their labors.

      Also, you don't have to die. The world we are trying to build is one without sickness or death. Extend the lifespan of man by a hundred years and by the end of that hundred years he will figure out how to extend it a thousand. At the end of that thousand, he will figure out how to extend it until the heat death of the universe. Sometime between now and then, we might just find a way around that as well.

      Nihilism is automatically for the lose.

    16. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Who creates corporations? If corporations didn't exist, how could they do all these evil things?

      People don't realize that literally all evils in the marketplace are due to initiation of aggression, and in government we have an agency that claims that it has the right and moral obligation to initiate aggression at any time and in any place. Is it really a surprise that they are at the root of the problems we have in the marketplace?

    17. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 2

      Actually, they would be free to sit in a sunny park selling food to passerbys, and thereby make money for themselves. In our current system, any attempts to do this without first paying off the state are met with extreme violence.

    18. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      In a true free market they would be able to start a business. There are a lot of things which I could do to make money, but the cost of meeting the government regulations raises my costs above what people are willing to pay.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    19. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If government intervention was eliminated, including minimum wage laws, workplace safety requirements, etc. - and trade unions, which are not an instance of government intervention, were also eliminated - then you're right, corporations would pay less than they do now. But everyone would be employed, because hiring those last few unskilled workers for a pittance is better for a corporation than leaving them unemployed.

      Government intervention makes life better for workers, at the cost of reducing the number of jobs. Whether that's a net good thing or a net bad thing is debatable (for each individual instance of government intervention), but you should at least be aware that there's a tradeoff with arguments in both directions.

    20. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      What a coincidence! I've heard managers say the same thing about their staff.

      Both of you are wrong, keep it up and whatever project/task you're working on will be unpleasant, and at best limp to the finish line. Just about everyone has a manager, a professional in any field will get their manager's respect by learning and solving their manager's problems with minimal fuss. If after 12 months or so, that doesn't work, find a new job/manager. If your manager doesn't have problems it's probably because you're both about to be put out to pasture on the next payroll cycle.

      At 55, I've been on both sides of the managerial fence and I've hired and fired programmers. I rejected the project managers job when my current employer offered it to me 4-5yrs years ago, having "been there before" I decided to keep my more interesting and less stressful role as the resident CVS Nazi. My overall goal has always been to automate my way out of whatever tedious task confronts me, I've been lucky enough to work with several professional managers who ensured I never ran out of tedious, annoying, tasks.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    21. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Can't see people buying in to a life where they get a stipend from the government to sit around and do nothing.

      Isn't that the goal of most workers - to retire and collect a pension?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    22. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Actually, they would be free to sit in a sunny park selling food to passerbys, and thereby make money for themselves. In our current system, any attempts to do this without first paying off the state are met with extreme violence.

      So you have hundreds of people in the park, all trying to sell food to people passing by. Where are those people passing by going? Not to a "real job" - they don't have one because the robots took them over. No, they're going to their own spot in the park to try to sell food to some other passer-by because they figured that if so many people are doing it, it must be a good way to make money. Sort of like the stampede into app development.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    23. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by plopez · · Score: 1

      So what? That is maximal economic efficiency. You should be ashamed of yourself for flying in the face of economic theory.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    24. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you have hundreds of people in the park, all trying to sell food to people passing by. Where are those people passing by going? Not to a "real job" - they don't have one because the robots took them over. No, they're going to their own spot in the park to try to sell food to some other passer-by because they figured that if so many people are doing it, it must be a good way to make money. Sort of like the stampede into app development.

      Before we got to even selling food, I gotta ask: how'd they get all that food to sell? If they could somehow acquire enough food that they could sell it, they could just, like, eat that food themselves, and won't starve.

      I would wager the poor would instead offer their bodies for sale, as that's the only reliable thing they own and control (hope you don't have any nasty diseases). Prostitution is said to be the world's oldest profession. ...which is why I firmly believe that the real game changer is a decent sex bot that could replace humans. I want my harem of sexy robot maids damnit!

    25. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by plopez · · Score: 1

      The job of the editors is to maximize profitability.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    26. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the libertarian/free market utopia, they would be free to starve to death in the park on a sunny day.

      In a libertarian utopia the parks, streets, and sidewalks would be privately owned. They would not be free to starve to death, but harried ruthlessly from place to place (tresspassing) until dropping dead from ill health, exhaustion, or "resisting arrest", long before starvation takes them. Welcome to America's right-wing future.

    27. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      So you think the busy bodies who want to control everybody are capitalists? The problem is the people who want to control everyone AND hate personal responsibility. Trespass on someones lawn and drown in their pool? Unfair make people build a wall. Don't like your neighbor painting their house pink? Make a law. The solution is to have a constitutionally limited government (restrict what the gov't can do) and hold them to that. Whoops - looks like lots of people hate that idea and prefer that the government can pass whatever laws it wants and then bitches when they cease being citizens and instead morph into serfs.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    28. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by olsmeister · · Score: 2

      I agree, way too many regulations. There are a lot of things I could do to make money too, but the damn government regulations are preventing me from really screwing those senile widows out of their retirement savings the way I really would like to.

    29. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      So there was no unemployment before capitalism? There was no unemployment in 1960's China or in today's North Korea? Get a grip.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    30. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Maybe its time to start learning A.I. programming?

    31. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      It's good to see that people who favor government regulation admit that the only reason they support government regulation is because they are evil.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    32. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Hardly; even a cheap-ass robot would do a better job catching dupes than these rubes.

      In any case, if the editors are robots, with whom is Bennet Haselton sleeping to get his personal maunderings hyped as news?

      --
      -Styopa
    33. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In most free market models I've heard there wouldn't be a public park. Minimalization of gov / keeping gov from competing with free enterprise for recreation and all that. If you don't have cash enough to pay for the venue, you've got nothing.

      That issue addressed, 'free market' as you've outlined seems to be code for 'its ok to injure the public via your goods/service and leave them without meaningful resort'. Assuming your homeless person had a hotdog cart and a venue to hock it, nothing prohibits him from bathing/pissing in the cart except himself. This is a likely way to spread disease and he has no way to make good on the damages if he does. A few such bad actors and the entire market for hotdog carts in the park is likely to collapse -- who would eat such if they thought it likely they'd become ill? -- and so they've now collectively injured all of their competition.

      Rational societies go around with a hammer and find the most common / easily identified ways that the public can be injured and then regulates said so it doesn't happen. Hence, the state gets its cut. Because it's better than 200 people catching the herp from a homeless guy's hotdog cart.

      I know it doesn't enable your self-actualization fantasy but thems the breaks.

    34. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy fucking shit you people are fucking idiots.

    35. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      There's a BIG difference between working and building up a pension, and then retiring and sitting around, vs starting the sitting around thing at age 19, and doing that forever.

    36. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's good to see that people who favor government regulation admit that the only reason they support government regulation is because they are evil.

      It's good to see free market proponents really aren't, and would just as quickly cry "evil" as any government or religious moral nanny when somebody does something they don't like.

      There is no good or evil on the free market. Only what sells and what doesn't. If parting money from widows is what makes money, well then damn free market minded people will do it and a market will emerge. If that gets out of hand, a market will emerge to offer protection to those widows from the first group.

      That doesn't mean, however, that the first group was "evil", no more than Mom & Pop shops were evil for being replaced with Walmart.

    37. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by quenda · · Score: 1

      How did this get past the editors?

      Here are 7 ways to get clickbait past the editors

    38. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by rnturn · · Score: 1

      And this food the people in the park are going to be selling? How did they get that? They are unemployed after all. Food ain't free for the taking. Or selling.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    39. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, in the free market, the people best equipped to offer "protection" (in the Mafia sense) from the first group is ... well, the first group. And boy they can offer you a deal you absolutely can't refuse!

    40. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...with eliza-level AI

      when was the upgrade?

    41. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Sure there is - but as we go into the jobless future, working and building up a pension won't be an option for many - and it won't matter how much education they have or how qualified they are.

      Example - something as simple as baby sitting. A robot won't be inattentive, won't lose it and shake the kid when it gets fussy, won't get stoned and put the baby in the oven and the turkey in the crib ... and at a lower cost to boot.

      Once people get used to the concept, they'll insist their kids be watched by bots because it's both safer and cheaper.

      Once almost every job goes this way, what is the difference between the 19-year-old and the 67-year-old? Nothing. Neither one of them could get a job.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    42. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      SSSH! You can't interrupt the anti-capitalism circlejerk, even though without the "evil" capitalism, we'd probably still be using horses and buggies and burning fires at night to stay warm while we write a letter with a quill and parchment.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    43. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked I get to vote for the people who run the government. I don't get to vote for the CEO of the company that polluted the ground water supply that I need to get drinking water from.

    44. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would I by food from a bum in the park, when I could get it more cheaply and of higher quality from a robot vendor?

    45. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, in the free market, the people best equipped to offer "protection" (in the Mafia sense) from the first group is ... well, the first group. And boy they can offer you a deal you absolutely can't refuse!

      Nonsense. Private security exists you know. Locksmiths aren't the group known for breaking into people's homes. Gun makers or normal owners aren't the ones robbing people or shooting up schools (well, anti-gun nuts might believe that)

      The point is, "evil" does not exist in the free market vocabulary. Whatever happens is the market equilibrium. Good and evil has nothing to do with it.

    46. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Singularity is upon us!

      Woohoo!

    47. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I didn't realize that there was literally only one thing that a person could do on their own to make money. Yes, you are right, let's therefore allow the government to prevent people from opening their businesses because there might be too much competition or something.

    48. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take long for them to get enough money to build a hot dog stand. You wouldn't just be buying it from "some bum". The point is that if you go and try to sell something, the police show up and murder you to death for not getting a permit which costs a huge amount of money, creating a barrier to entry. How can you claim to help the poor by sawing off ever higher rungs on the ladder to success?

    49. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      You can't get $3 together to buy some bottled water to resell? This isn't hard.

      Also note that your argument is the equivalent of saying "well, if the first rung on the ladder isn't on the literal absolute floor, we should let the government raise it up so high you need a college degree to flip burgers."

    50. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      "Why plant crops when we can just eat our seed corn?"

      Anonymous idiot, you are a genius!

    51. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As more and more jobs are automated, there will be fewer and fewer jobs available, and more and more people trying to get them.

      Let's just look at ATM machines. They made it possible for people to get cash out at any time, so banks needed fewer tellers. Now what happens when all money goes digital - you pay for stuff using a smart card or smart phone? No more ATM machines. Which means those jobs designing and making them, and those jobs servicing them, and those armored car jobs filling them up with money, disappear.

      And so do the cash registers. No more taking cash payments and giving change to anyone. Smart shopping carts bill everything in your cart as you go through the exit, so no self-serve checkouts with a supervisor for every x machines. So, no cash money, no need to print it or mint coins - those jobs are gone, as are all the jobs transporting and handling money. No more counterfeiting currency. No more need for safes to hold cash overnight in the store. No more nightly bank deposits.

      We're beyond the point where automating jobs creates more opportunities. Once a robot is designed, you don't need more human labor to make 1 or a million. Those million employees at Foxconn who are going to be displaced by robots won't be moving up the food chain.

      Yesterday, Foxconn announced (at an employee dance party of all places) that they're planning on buying some robots to replace their human workforce. And by some robots, they mean one million robots over the next three years. So for every one robot Foxconn currently has working at their manufacturing plants, they're going to buy a hundred more.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    52. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Unemployment is created by government rules, laws, taxes, nothing else.

      Unemployment is a function of capitalism in order to create fear and a willing pool of people prepared to do awful jobs for rubbish pay.

      Unemployment, underployment and poverty have existed for as long as humans have developed stratified societies (7K years). I'm sure as fuck that this preceded capitalism, but don't let that stop you from posting ideological histrionics. Whatever rocks your boat, I'm not judging.

    53. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This "true free market" would have to be free of barriers-to-entry. Existing businesses use their resources to erect such barriers-to-entry to stop potential competitors from starting their own businesses. The *only* force that prevents this is government intervention.

      Such barriers to entry might include locking up providers or clients with exclusive contracts, temporary loss pricing, etc.

      Anyone who has seriously studied economics (not entry-level students) already knows this, and can provide specific examples. The sort of people who post rosy total-freedom-always-wins are usually not such students.

      A market that is controlled by a monopoly or a cartel is not a free market. Any truly free market becomes such a non-free market in relatively short order, if there isn't government intervention there to prevent it.

    54. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks I needed a good laugh this morning... and I am a robot.

    55. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Yes, first you have to endure other people telling you what to do for most of your adult life while you have little time to pursue anything that interests you. It's better than starving and being homeless but that's not saying much.

    56. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by chihowa · · Score: 1

      So who comes and murders the hot dog vendor to death for operating a stand in his private park without giving up his cut? Where does this homeless person sleep while he's raising his capital and picking himself up by his bootstraps. Your entire argument is predicated on the existence of land that is free to use by others.

      It doesn't take long for them to get enough money to build a hot dog stand.

      What do you base this on? If everything is privately owned and they have nothing to offer but labor, which is devalued or valueless in our hypothetical robot-run world, where do they get this money?

      If he's starting with nothing, he's only got a few weeks to build up the capital to start his hotdog stand, while diverting some of the money to food, water, and rent (there is no public land, remember). If he fails to raise the money or misjudges his market, he starves to death, right?

      I assume that in a world where labor had little to no value, you'd never be that homeless man, right?

      [To keep this discussion on track, I'm not some authoritarian statist or communist or anything. I'm only pointing out that your solution to this thought experiment isn't very well thought out.]

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    57. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      When there are no jobs, provided we can feed everyone, we essentially have communism. The worker becomes the artist and the commodity is culture.

      That could happen, more likely the unemployed will be considered "useless eaters" and every effort will be made to disenfranchise them. Warehousing and/or liquidation will be the preferred outcomes by the elite.

    58. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Sure, that'll work, until they train the AIs to do it themselves.

    59. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The government has _already_ robbed the window and everybody else of their retirement. You are a piker.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    60. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did this get past the editors?

      They've been replaced by robots already.

      Must be pretty cheap robots. I for one would expect a better job on the grammar and punctuation.

    61. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      All markets are natural monopolies? Perhaps you should get past econ 101 before you start preaching. Also get a better teacher. Sounds like yours was a dogmatic Marxist.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    62. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck marketers of any stripe.

    63. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Poor unemployed people with no money in the first place should just magically get all the seed, land, water, equipment to be farmers! And they can eat cake while they wait for the seeds to turn into crops!"

      I'm not the idiot here.

    64. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by mjtaylor24601 · · Score: 1

      People don't realize that literally all evils in the marketplace are due to initiation of aggression, and in government we have an agency that claims that it has the right and moral obligation to initiate aggression at any time and in any place. Is it really a surprise that they are at the root of the problems we have in the marketplace?

      What makes you think that, in the absence of government, all other actors would magically refrain from the "initiation of aggression"? After all, why would I want to engage in trade with you if it's easier for me to just club you over the head and take your stuff? If there's no recognized legal authority what's to stop me from doing so?

      --
      I wish I were as sure of anything as some people are of everything
    65. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      "Being poor means having zero money at all times, always now and forever."

      No, I think you are.

    66. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      "Your entire argument is predicated on the existence of land that is free to use by others."

      No it isn't. It's predicated on the fact that the government prevents people from starting small businesses. Why do you idiots think the only two possible systems are "Nazi boots on your face at all times" and "OMG ANARCHY"? Did the Nazis crush your head a little more than average?

      "If everything is privately owned and they have nothing to offer but labor, which is devalued or valueless in our hypothetical robot-run world, where do they get this money?"

      Where do people get money from now? Surely everyone can afford to spend $2.50 for 24 water bottles and sell them for 25 or 50 cents each? If you can't afford that, go to a food pantry.

      "If he's starting with nothing,"

      Why do you make retarded assumptions? Fuck, he can go sell some plasma and feed himself while making a little stand out of a discarded cardboard box. Just sell sealed, prepackaged stuff that you can buy in minor bulk.

      If you want to discuss things, you would do well not to strawman people and go full retard with the reductio ad absurdum.

    67. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Severely underrated comment.

    68. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      You are thinking of police there. I've yet to see "some guy" harassing homeless people or people living in cars. Only police. That is America's PRESENT and will be worse in the future if we don't allow the tide to come back in and lift all the boats.

    69. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Because there is such a thing as reputation, and concealed carry. Also, I didn't say get rid of governments, I said get them out of the markets. The only possible purpose of a government is to reduce aggression (ie murder, assault, theft, and their derivatives like rape and fraud).

    70. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Wow... speaking of full retard.

      You've clearly got some assumptions that you're basing all of your little tirades on, so why don't you just share them upfront instead of expecting us to infer them from your breathless ranting.

      ---

      OK, I went back and reread the thread and see what's going on now. You're not talking about robots replacing human labor like everyone else in the comments for this article. I accidentally stepped into the present day, nothing to do with this article, libertarian/anti-libertarian thread. I'll show myself out.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    71. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked I get to vote for the people who run the government. I don't get to vote for the CEO of the company that polluted the ground water supply that I need to get drinking water from.

      Some might argue that the effectiveness of one person boycotting a company is reasonably comparable to the effectiveness of one person casting their vote.

      --
      ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
    72. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by mjtaylor24601 · · Score: 1

      Because there is such a thing as reputation, and concealed carry.

      Reputation only works as a behavior modifier if the people I have to do business with in some way give a crap about the people I'm screwing over. And concealed carry only works if your gun is bigger than mine.

      Also, I didn't say get rid of governments, I said get them out of the markets. The only possible purpose of a government is to reduce aggression (ie murder, assault, theft, and their derivatives like rape and fraud).

      You didn't say get rid of them but you did say they were "the root of the problems we have in the marketplace", which I took to mean you thought there would be no problems in the marketplace if we got rid of the government. IMHO you can't have a functioning marketplace without things like protection of property rights, protection against fraud and enforcement of contracts, and I've yet to hear of a credible proposal for how we maintain those things without some form of government.

      --
      I wish I were as sure of anything as some people are of everything
    73. Re: #1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could buy stock in that company and have at least one vote.

    74. Re: #1 slashdot article submitters by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      You nailed the description of middle managers. It verges on being a definition.....

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
    75. Re: #1 slashdot article submitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robots that can sell people nice, cold individual bottles of water have been around for about 80 years. And these days they take the plastic money that is all many people carry these days that the guy on the street usually can't.

    76. Re:#1 slashdot article submitters by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You don't understand how guns work. Likely learned from 3d shooters.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  2. Black Mirror by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think Season 1 Ep 3 of Black Mirror just about nailed the future of the global workforce smack on the head. The rarified elite will control 99.999% of the global wealth while the rest are used as a captive consumer base, forced to watch ads and rewarded in credits for providing energy to help provide "green energy" by toiling on exercise bikes all day and/or by being used as entertainment in reality tv or porn.

    1. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was amazed at how spot fucking on that episode was, it was even complete with a *'s got talent show and shitty phone games with micro-transactions.

      1984 doesn't even compare to this bleak future.

    2. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the thing about science fiction: it's always really about the present.

    3. Re:Black Mirror by blue+trane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Solution: use the technology of money creation to fund a basic income, so people can pursue their happiness, and explore their natural creativity and wonder.

    4. Re:Black Mirror by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1
      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    5. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WW3 Would happen long before that. Keep dreaming.

    6. Re:Black Mirror by roman_mir · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Do you even realise that it is not supply of money that is limiting people's wealth, it is supply of production, or do you not realise that? Money is a measure stick, the wealth is not cash, it's what you can produce and savings that are based on real excess production that is exchanged for other goods/services/investments/savings.

      You can't use 'technology of money creation' to do anything except to create inflation (expansion of the money supply) thus reducing the relative value of money and destroying its worth.

      It's like you have 1 ton of steel that you mined. You can use 1 dollar to measure its worth or you can use 1 Trillion dollars to measure its worth, that number is irrelevant to how much steel you have.

      Providing the entitlement of the so called 'basic income' creates a situation where the currently idle population simply procreates to consume all of the resources allocated to them for free. So as an example the idle population of 1,000,000 becomes population of 1,000,000,000 and where the 'basic income' was enough to sustain 1,000,000 comfortably the new 1,000,000,000 are so poor on it, they are now demanding the entitlement to be increased proportionately to their numbers.

      Well, so where does that extra excess productive capacity come from to feed the new 99,000,000? Well, the 1,000,000 would have had to WORK to create enough WEALTH to sustain the new 99,000,000 (who also would have to work).

      Providing the so called 'basic income' is a recipe for greater and greater, bigger and bigger more and more massive levels of poverty among larger and larger idle population.

    7. Re:Black Mirror by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes. but I think that the people using exercise bikes to generate power is just a placeholder for 'something else' that the author hasn't quite figured out yet (kinda like the human batteries from The Matrix)

      I tend to look to the past for what we will find in the future and this immediately brought to mind 'A Modest Proposal' with its suggestion for the proper use of 'excess human population'. Just to save you from doing any research, it is the same that was found in Soylent Green (but much better written, Johnathan Swift possessed wit)

      Of course, Spock's Brain comes to mind as our robotic overlords become to advanced to be bothered with tending to the 'plumbing' and outsource the more mundane work to our feeble human brains

      The expositions of the future used to envision a world where automation resulted in a life of ease for us mere humans, this could still be the case if the concentration of wealth to the upper echelons can be avoided

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    8. Re:Black Mirror by ceview · · Score: 2

      but what if the basic income allows people to generate things? those people are not necessarily idle. The idea of a basic income is that they don't have to 'worry' about income. So they can go and focus on doing something they enjoy like create art, make an app, write a book etc, that they can potentially sell and supplement their basic income. You could receive a basic income and still get paid to get contract work from time to time for example. Most people want to be creative or engage in society in some way, even if it just contributing to the social spaces they operate within.

    9. Re:Black Mirror by JanneM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Automation changes the source of production from workers to machines. And that separates the source of production from the source of consumption.

      To put it simply, robots produce wealth but does not consume it. Humans consume wealth, but (in this possible future) can no longer produce it. Robots have owners of course, but even if you ignore what happens to the majority of people, a few extremely wealthy people can not possibly make up for the consumption shortfall. Ten-thousand people with 10k each vastly outconsume (by necessity) a single person worth 100M.

      So, if the entities making wealth and those using wealth become separate, you need a way to transfer wealth from one to the other. If not, you will see a slow-moving economic collapse, as lack of demand and cost-cutting automation drive each other down.

      A basic income, generated from a tax on production (transaction tax, energy tax, direct tax on machinery) is one way, and has the benefit of being simple, straightforward and having low administrative overhead.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    10. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, so where does that extra excess productive capacity come from to feed the new 99,000,000?

      From robots. I know reading the article is considered unnecessary, but can't you at least read the frickin' headline?

      Of course, if you are arguing that we are nowhere close to that situation, then I'm right with you. But if we do get to the point where robots have replaced virtually all workers, something like a basic income is going to be necessary. The problem is that many people seem to have decided that we're already there.

      It's amazing. Mexicans who can't legally work in this country have no problem finding jobs here but many citizens do.

    11. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, you'd think the people who support basic income, like Hayek or Friedman, hadn't thought of that. Of course they purposed it to put strict limits on the growth of welfare (like pegging it to a percentage of GDP) and free up labor from restraints such as minimum wage. Funny how they could take the exact opposite view as you.

      Not to mention as wealth increases, birth rates tend to decrease. It's not like Malthus hasn't been disproven again and again.

      And we may be fast approaching a time when there is little work for humans to do, most of it taken by machines. As society adjusts to this new circumstance, what do you suggest to smooth over this disruption?

      Oh.

    12. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's already here, and is already happening.. to us .. now!

    13. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, using a human to turn food into electrical energy via an excercise bike extremely inefficient. So bad that even coal is better for the environment (except of course humans typically eat materials that have absorbed CO2 to grow, instead of having done so millions of years ago)

    14. Re:Black Mirror by itzly · · Score: 1

      Yes. but I think that the people using exercise bikes to generate power is just a placeholder for 'something else' that the author hasn't quite figured out yet

      Killing the humans and burning their bodies is more energy efficient.

    15. Re:Black Mirror by itzly · · Score: 1

      they enjoy like create art, make an app, write a book etc

      ... fuck around, smoke meth, thrash the place...

    16. Re:Black Mirror by itzly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Robots have owners of course

      And the owners take everything the robots produce. People who don't own robots can just go fuck themselves. How's that ?

    17. Re:Black Mirror by tehcyder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. but I think that the people using exercise bikes to generate power is just a placeholder for 'something else' that the author hasn't quite figured out yet

      Killing the humans and burning their bodies is more energy efficient.

      But at some point people will notice that their friends and neighbours are being burnt. The point is that you have to pacify the majority or else they turn on those in power.

      In Brave New World, the proles had drugs and sex to keep them happy: it's a much better prediction of the future than 1984 in many ways.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:Black Mirror by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Do you even realise that it is not supply of money that is limiting people's wealth, it is supply of production, or do you not realise that?

      But if the production is all done by robots, that only leaves things like writing music or poetry for humans to do.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    19. Re:Black Mirror by itzly · · Score: 1

      The point is that you have to pacify the majority or else they turn on those in power.

      I'm pretty sure a robot army could handle a bunch of civilians.

    20. Re:Black Mirror by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Robots have owners of course

      And the owners take everything the robots produce. People who don't own robots can just go fuck themselves. How's that ?

      Yep, sounds like a perfect recipe for a revolution.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    21. Re:Black Mirror by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Or a District 9 sequel.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    22. Re:Black Mirror by itzly · · Score: 1

      You call it a revolution. The robots call it an easy extermination.

    23. Re:Black Mirror by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      But not as effective as killing them and turning them into a food for the workers.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    24. Re:Black Mirror by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It's amazing. Mexicans who can't legally work in this country have no problem finding jobs here but many citizens do.

      Try this on for size

      The number of Mexican immigrants living illegally in the U.S. has dropped significantly for the first time in decades, showing a dramatic shift as many illegal workers are moving back to Mexico from the U.S. because there are so few job opportunities.

      The new analysis comes amid renewed debate over U.S. immigration policy as the Supreme Court hears arguments this week on Arizona's tough immigration law.

      Mexican immigrants make account for nearly 60 per cent of the illegal immigrant population in the U.S. and last year there were 6.1million in America. That number was down from its peak in 2007 when there were 7million confirmed in the U.S.

      That drop was the biggest one in modern history, with the Pew Hispanic Center noting it was believed to only be surpassed in scale by losses in the Mexican-born U.S. population during the Great Depression

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    25. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      has the benefit of being simple, straightforward and having low administrative overhead.

      Simple enough a robot could do it?

    26. Re:Black Mirror by some+old+guy · · Score: 1

      You're way too optimistic. I see Idiocracy becoming a reality first.

      --
      Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
    27. Re:Black Mirror by Totenglocke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just because you might do something mildly productive with your time if you didn't have to work for a living does not mean that the majority would. Hell, look at the countless millions who bitch about their circumstances, yet do nothing with their spare time that would improve them (learning new skills, taking a class, volunteering in a position that would help them improve their circumstances, etc). For every person who wrote a useful app / book, you'd have at least 100 just sitting around drinking beer and watching football.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    28. Re:Black Mirror by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      This is the basic difference between conservatives and progressives. Conservatives have now imagination and their primary drive is to hoard. The basic income they imagine is a bunk in barracks style room, a bowl of gruel, and a nondescript jumpsuit (probably orange). They imagine "those" basic income people will lay in a stupor, wallowing in what has been given them, sleeping, and raping, and contributing nothing.

      You don't have to look beyond America's prisons to see the fallacy in this train of thought.

      Progressives imagine people with a basic income that allows them to cover their own basic needs and spend their time creating, gardening, helping their neighbors, decorating things, and eventually building businesses or small trading operations.

    29. Re:Black Mirror by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The only reason to replace humans with robots is that the robots are more efficient. That means they increase production, reduce costs, or both. Replacing human workers with robots means everybody has to work less to make the same or more. The problem is purely one of wealth allocation, not creation.

      Your assertion that people who aren't working won't do anything but breed is also not supported by evidence. People who are educated with large amounts of personal freedom have a much lower reproductive rate than people who need to spend most of their time working in order to survive.

    30. Re:Black Mirror by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      spend their time creating, gardening, helping their neighbors, decorating things,

      - yeah, that's what I call idle population. Creating new forms of porn and that's about it.

      and eventually building businesses or small trading operations

      - oh yeah, sure, subsidized by the 'basic income' for no reason whatsoever just because they graced us with their presence on this planet.

      A person's worth is in what the person does, a person that lives off of others is not worth anything, he or she is a net drain on the system, not a net benefit. Thinking that a significant number of people with that mentality will amount to anything at all if they are not prodded by the cold reality of having to survive on this planet but believing they are owed something by others, who have something, that doesn't make creative and entrepreneurial people at all, but it will create a class of people for who it will never be enough. They will believe that if they procreate and create more mouths to feed for the system now, that the system has to expand its own production for their sake and feed them all and probably do even more than just feed them, because 'dignity'.

      Dignity does NOT come from forced coercive threat of violence and income redistribution based on that violence. We have conclusively proven that in the former USSR (and North Korea and more).

    31. Re:Black Mirror by pnutjam · · Score: 0

      Yes, thank you for confirming my suspicions. You have no imagination and project your own moral failing onto others.

    32. Re:Black Mirror by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      But at some point people will notice that their friends and neighbours are being burnt. The point is that you have to pacify the majority or else they turn on those in power.

      In Brave New World, the proles had drugs and sex to keep them happy: it's a much better prediction of the future than 1984 in many ways.

      As Martin Niemoller said, in a different context:
      "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Socialist.
      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Trade Unionist."
      and so forth. If they first kill off the homeless, then they kill off the very poor, then they kill off the illegal immigrants, they never have to pacify the majority. They just have to keep them scared enough to not protest.

      By the way, Neil Postman wrote an interesting book called "Amusing Ourselves To Death", where he compared the futures predicted by Brave New World and 1984 and talked about why he thought we were heading towards Brave New World. Some of his information is pretty dated -- he totally didn't expect the universal surveillance state we seem to be entering into -- but it's still an excellent exploration of what you're suggesting.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    33. Re:Black Mirror by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      True, but at some point people will have negative net present value from an employers perspective. In that scenario it might be cheaper to pay them a basic income than it would be to employ them or pay for suppressing civil unrest.

    34. Re:Black Mirror by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Dignity does NOT come from forced coercive threat of violence and income redistribution based on that violence. We have conclusively proven that in the former USSR (and North Korea and more).

      True, but when wealth disparity becomes extreme that doesn't turn out so well either. See feudalism for a potent example of what it's like for most people to exist as little more than chattel.

    35. Re:Black Mirror by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Yep, sounds like a perfect recipe for a revolution.

      Hence the emphasis on DARPA projects that can produce robotic soldiers and autonomous war machines.

    36. Re:Black Mirror by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Your assertion that people who aren't working won't do anything but breed is also not supported by evidence. People who are educated with large amounts of personal freedom have a much lower reproductive rate than people who need to spend most of their time working in order to survive.

      - are you kidding? People who aren't working are breeding, that's all they are doing. This is proven conclusively by countries with welfare systems in place, such as the USA, Israel and others, where there are large swaths of population whose only fame to claim is the benefits that they are extracting from the system and producing more mouths to feed. There is a culture of welfare produced in the USA, white trash is among the top welfare recipients of-course. In Israel the Haredim (ultra orthodox) Jews see it necessary to have scores of children (while also using their procreating habits to encroach further and further into the Gaza strip increasing the tensions and violence and at the same time Haredim do not join the military forces in the country).

    37. Re:Black Mirror by udachny · · Score: 0

      (same user, backup account, since my other one is currently prevented from posting by various intolerant moderators.)

      My moral failings? Unlike you I do not assign a moral value to being intelligent enough to take advantage of a situation by creatures living in this Universe.

      I do not begrudge anybody taking advantage of anything that is accessible to them easily, I begrudge the society stealing from some to provide this sort of an advantage to others in order to buy their loyalties, (which is exactly what this is - buying votes).

      I have plenty of imagination to live my life by my values, using 5 flag methodology and running my own business though I came from nothing at all and worked my way to where I am doing what I want to do, so none of your supposed insults can touch me at all on this level.

    38. Re:Black Mirror by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Spot on at hitting your preconceptions? Correct!

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    39. Re:Black Mirror by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Computers already write better music and poetry then 99.99% of humans.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    40. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but he imagines that he would be the lord and not the chattel. So in his mind, that's a positive outcome.

    41. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the inevitable long-term outcome of greed. Losing the 90% you had (and your life) in a ruthless attempt to get that last 10%.

    42. Re:Black Mirror by Baki · · Score: 1

      You shoudl imagine the following: you invest $50k to replace yourself (on the job) with a robot. Now you have 100% free time and the robot earns your income, produces stuff etc. Everyone could be happy.

      But the question is: who gets to buy and use the robot and its income?

      In the end, automation should be able to produce more than enough for everyone. The only remaining question is how we distribute all that wealth.

      But I have the feelig that this is not what's going to happen, due to greed and hunger for power of todays "happy few".

    43. Re:Black Mirror by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go ahead and guess you're American? Your culture seems to have this weird blind spot where the rest of the world is concerned.

      You know that the populations of the USA, Israel and most, if not all, other countries with modern social systems are reproducing at below replacement levels, right?

      Your personal prejudices are causing you to focus on a few niche groups. Grow up.

    44. Re:Black Mirror by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I was born in the USSR, not an American, lived all over the world and maintain a 5 flag strategy. I have a better understanding of the global situation than many people on this planet who have never even left their own city in their lives.

      As to the rest of your comment, clearly you cannot read. I am not talking the general population, I am talking about welfare recipients, so try and stay on topic, would you please?

    45. Re:Black Mirror by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Out of the millions or billions of "rich people" who have robots, you don't think even a single one of them will turn their robots toward building robots for the poor, especially if they are doing so badly?

    46. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers already write better music and poetry then 99.99% of humans.

      Fail to grasp the difference between "then" and "than"? Lose.

    47. Re:Black Mirror by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Creating value by burning carbon has little or no moral value, and it is what everyone does if they drive a car or shower almost daily, among other things taken for granted. Global warming and ocean acidification are a monstrous thing*, and contributing to them hampers dignity. I favor basic income precisely to create a class of people for whom enough will be enough, and reducing economic output or GDP is to be viewed as a good thing.

      What about the violence of cars speeding at 70mph, or the distorted concurrence from people still mired in 20th century thinking. Also, you rely on the threat of violence to keep your properties : government allows you to keep what you keep.

      * science works and is designed to keep political pressure and bullshit out.

    48. Re:Black Mirror by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like a reason for people to think before they breed. Far too many people have kids that they cannot support, who then grow up to be unskilled workers (or on welfare) because they never learned responsible behavior from their parents.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    49. Re:Black Mirror by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but have you considered the consequences of what you're suggesting when the group who can't support children grows to include the majority of the population?

    50. Re:Black Mirror by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Go back to reddit grammarian moron.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    51. Re:Black Mirror by BalthCat · · Score: 1

      You're mistaking pursuit of happiness for idleness. No one is claiming that a fundamental shift in how society is structured isn't required for a high-"leisure" mechanized society. Far from it. Is there a dearth of volunteerism in your community? Guess what might solve that!

    52. Re:Black Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they enjoy like create art, make an app, write a book etc

      ... fuck around, smoke meth, thrash the place...

      Some subset of the population does that now. A basic income or negative tax means they can do that without the rest of us having to hire them to do slipshod work, or work beside them while they get nearly the same pay for much less/worse output, thus harming the morale of the good workers. Basic income means that the workers who do apply for a job are far more likely to actually be interested in doing fair work for fair pay. The truly lazy (which most of the working poor are not, BTW) can just stay out of the way of the rest of us.

      - T

    53. Re:Black Mirror by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      We stop overpopulating the planet and burning up non-renewable resources at an absurd pace? The horror!

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    54. Re:Black Mirror by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      You're suggesting a culture where the majority of inhabitants have no hope for the future. To say that such a culture would be unstable is a vast understatement. The likely outcome would be bloody and violent revolution. War is economically wasteful and destructive to the environment, I don't think the result would be nearly as cheery as you seem to be assuming.

  3. If there are no jobs then war, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's mainly why ISIS exists. Bunch of people with no jobs.

    1. Re:If there are no jobs then war, duh by Sudline · · Score: 1

      If there is money to let ISIS exists, there is money to let them live without being terrorist.

    2. Re: If there are no jobs then war, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being a jihadist is a full-time job with an ungodly schedule, although I heard you get some good paid leave after a successful suicide attack.

    3. Re:If there are no jobs then war, duh by stud9920 · · Score: 2

      If there is money to let ISIS exists, there is money to let them live without being terrorist.

      Do you really think we could afford WWI or WWII ? This doesn't mean they didn't happen. War is the number one justification for spending money countries don't have.

    4. Re:If there are no jobs then war, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume by "we" you mean America? America profited massively from both world wars, especially WW2. Even after you factor in Marshal Aid.

  4. Not so fast by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Financial and sports reporters - the examples are the types of stores that are full of facts and figures, and are better done by computers anyway. It's kind of like bemoaning computers taking away the human job of compiling telephone directories (remember those?). Not a lot of human touch needed there.

    Online marketers - Really? Creating email subject lines? And I've stumbled onto those sites. They are only effective because they make it hard to click on anything OTHER than an ad. Not exactly stealing a desirable human job there.

    E-discovery - i.e., Google for lawyers. And Wikipedia says they have 53K employees. Wait, I thought we were eliminating human jobs!

    Financial advisers - good riddance. Most of them are just trying to get you to go for the investment with the highest commission, not the best for you. Computers will follow suit, but whatever.

    Here's one they missed: radio DJs. You've heard these stations that are totally automated. No human touch, dry as a bone. The ones you want to listen to are still emceed by humans.

    1. Re:Not so fast by infidel_heathen · · Score: 1

      Are you saying my Pandora station is emceed by a human? I knew it!

    2. Re:Not so fast by westlake · · Score: 1

      Financial and sports reporters - the examples are the types of stores that are full of facts and figures, and are better done by computers anyway.

      Let me introduce you to Red Smith and A.J. Liebling. American Pastimes: The Very Best of Red Smith, A.J. Liebling: The Sweet Science and Other Writings

      ''I've always had the notion,'' Smith once said, ''that people go to spectator sports to have fun and then they grab the paper to read about it and have fun again.''

    3. Re:Not so fast by fermion · · Score: 1
      Most jobs can be automated or be done more efficiently through automation. In computer jargon, gates are cheaper than humans, unless one is a human named Gates.

      This has been true through most of human civilization. Machines has increased the amount work that a human could do, and with power production amplified it. With electronics we code the actual human knowledge so that less skilled workers can actually approximate the output of a more skilled worker. This has been actually been since the advent of the Jacquard Loom.

      In any case, another thing that has been happening since electricity is that work hours has been decreasing for many people. Many people work less than 40 hours a week because the level of technology and kind of work they do makes that a optimal time to work. So we are at a time when we really need to make wages so that 30 hours a week provides a basic income. This is how we create jobs. Part of that is going to be an $11 a hour minimum wage.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    4. Re:Not so fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Red Smith and A.J. Liebling come from a time where sports was more human. Most athletes back then were regular guys with talent. Now we grow them from childhood with sports camps. You don't need talent as much as you need an a parent who's obsessed with a particular sport. Today, sports are just mind-numbing commercials that idiots watch, exactly what someone on basic income will do.

      Marx was almost right. Religion isn't the opiate of the masses, professional sports is. Think not? Look at how much local municipalities spend on sports facilities. Listen to the arguments in favor of building $1 billion stadiums.

    5. Re:Not so fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of my favorite DJ's, Big Earl of Groove Salad, pioneered this. He evolved from a simple perl script into an autonomous internet DJ simply by following his dreams.

    6. Re:Not so fast by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      You've heard these stations that are totally automated. No human touch, dry as a bone. The ones you want to listen to are still emceed by humans.

      Personally I prefer the automated ones.

  5. What's different now?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's different now? A lack of imagination!
    Just as buggy whip makers couldn't possibly think of the millions of jobs automobiles would create, tomorrows technology will destroy current jobs while creating new ones. We will probably see autonomous cars rip the rug out from taxis and uber services, and will also see many new autonomous car based services pop up. I expect as car ownership is reduced, many garages become workshops, studios, and project labs for lots of fun new ideas that will create many new jobs that computers couldn't possible come up with, and perhaps people will have to build new robots to make new things.
    Should be fun!

    1. Re:What's different now?... by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Just as buggy whip makers couldn't possibly think of the millions of jobs automobiles would create, tomorrows technology will destroy current jobs while creating new ones.

      You don't get it. If any of these new jobs are repetitive and require little creativity, a cheap robot can replace the human worker.

      I expect as car ownership is reduced, many garages become workshops, studios, and project labs for lots of fun new ideas that will create many new jobs that computers couldn't possible come up with,

      The problem there is, only a few people are interested in such (risky) endeavors, and only a small of fraction of their ideas are useful. What do you expect the rest of the people to do?

    2. Re: What's different now?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expect them to die, mr bond.

    3. Re:What's different now?... by Sique · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It's not the lack of imagination. Far from it.

      When the buggy whip makers went out of business, the car industry was already in full swing. They were already outputting enough cars to replace the buggies. The buggy whip makers could actually see the workers working to make them obsolete. At this time, it was wellknown how many jobs the automobile industry was creating. And it was wellknown that the new automobile not only replaced the horse carriage, it actually made it better, allowing for more trips, for more load hauled, for higher speed. The car helped to make the whole transportation business to grow more productive, and not just a few percent, it was a multitude of improvement. The demand for transportation at the same time was also growing because transportation got so much cheaper that goods or persons which would never have been transported so far and so often before, now could. Replacing the buggy with the car as the means of transport actually increased the transporting market.

      Buggy whip makers didn't need to imagine the new jobs. They knew what the new jobs were, as they could see their neigbours already having them.

      But if you just replace a worker by a machine, there is not necessarily a new job opening waiting. The manufacturer of the machine already has the people to make the machine, as he was able to built it. And it's not as if his business has to be growing, as the market for his worker-replacement-machines is limited to the number of workers his machines can replace. It happens that not only the worker who is replaced by the machine is out of the job, also the people installing the machine are also out of a job, because their job is now finished. And maintaining the machine surely will require either less man-power or less qualified man-power than the man-power it is replacing. Otherwise there would be no point in actually replacing them.

      Automatisation of jobs in general does not create new jobs. It just frees up human labor. If that allows for huge gains in productivity (and we are talking huge gains. The mechanical loom improved the productivity tenfold, and so did the spinning machine), there might be new markets and thus there might be new demand, creating new jobs. But just replacing the human by a machine does not. Having cheaper sport news does not increase the market for sport news. The replacement of the financial advisor by a computer does not increase the demand for financial advise, because the requestor does not get a tenfold improvement on his ROI. As a maximum, he saves the few percents the human financial advisor got as his premium. The same is valid for legal expertise. People will not want to have more need for legal advise just because it is cheaper. Most people prefer not to be involved in legal quagmires at all. Compare that with the demand for cars! People love to buy cars. Or at least, they used to love it. But the demand for new cars is already shrinking at least in some parts of the world. Young people in Europe list the desire to own a car quite low in their priorities already. A similar trend can be seen in the U.S.. And which new job is replacing the car manufacturer's job? Simply none. Completely different than it was when the welder's job at a car factory replaced the buggy whip maker.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re:What's different now?... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Hopefully whatever they want, as opposed to our current strategy of making up lots of useless jobs so that everyone can "work" eight hours a day. You don't really think it's necessary to have four Gap employees to fawn over the three concurrent customers, do you? Or armies of people deciding what colour and font best represents the qualities of Icy-Fresh Gum on that billboard?

      We've been shuttling people displaced by machines into make-work jobs since at least the 50s. Perhaps this time things will change so fast we'll start to reconsider some of our delusions, like the necessity for people to work at or beyond their optimal maximum.

    5. Re:What's different now?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people who are not qualified to manufacture cars are now coding for systemd. They also created the Unity interface for Ubuntu.

    6. Re:What's different now?... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Educating children is repetitive and requires little creativity. It will be one of the very last jobs to be automated.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:What's different now?... by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      "You don't really think it's necessary to have four Gap employees to fawn over the three concurrent customers, do you?"

      If this were the old Communist Russia then you may have a point, but do you think the Gap employees people it doesn't need to in order to keep civilization going? I don't.

  6. No increase by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Insightful

    But lately, as technology has become more sophisticated, the drumbeat of worry has intensified.

    It hasn't increased. Probably the high-point for this worry was the Luddites. And another high-point was in the 50s, when computers were first coming out, and movies played on that worry. When was the last movie where a job-taking-computer was the main villain?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:No increase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno. I know in my workplace I could replace two staff members with two pieces of equipment (and one shell script).

    2. Re:No increase by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the 50s it was container shipping that caused all the fuss that made the papers.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  7. Garbage by Karmashock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. High volume data reporting such as sports and fiance where people are just looking for numbers. I mean... who cares? These are things that previously were often just charts. And really, which would you rather read? A chart that gives you the numbers of some natural language engine that turns the numbers into a bogus article? Give me the chart any day. And that never took much labor.

    2. Scanning emails to to do targeted advertising. How is this a job anyone got taken away from them? For one thing, if something is going to read my emails, I'd prefer it be a robot rather then a human being. And beyond that, this is a job that wouldn't even exist without robots. After all, who is going to pay someone to go through all those emails to look for key words and then match those key words to targeted advertising? Dumb.

    3. I'm not terribly worried about a supped up version of WebMD. But if that system can actually do that job... then that is amazing and a blessing. Look at all the people struggling with paying for medical bills. National budgets are getting strained with the expense. And then so many communities don't have first class hospitals to get access to such people even if they can pay/they're subsidized. This technology if it works will save lives and lower medical costs which is something we sorely need. The first two things listed were bullshit and the third if viable is fucking amazing.

    4. Discovery in law suits is possibly the most boring thing anyone in law can ever be assigned to do. Whenever this happens they always put the most junior interns they can get their hands on to do it. It is a bullshit job that no one wants to do and a horrible waste of a law degree. Also... this could make court costs more reasonable... which is also good.

    5. The problem with human financial analysts is that they get emotional. They get scared or they get greedy or they get lazy or they drawn into some fad. What is more, they're expensive again if you want a good one and that's just out of reach of most people. AI financial assistants will have their own problems. But something is better then nothing.

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    1. Re:Garbage by camperdave · · Score: 1

      The only job listed that requires robots (Automatically controlled, reprogrammable, multipurpose, manipulator programmable in three or more axes http://web.archive.org/web/20070628064010/http://www.dira.dk/pdf/robotdef.pdf) is the surgeon. The rest can be done by AIs.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:Garbage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. I'm not terribly worried about a supped up version of WebMD.

      Indeed, a good WebMD would be an awesome addition to conventional MDs, but you still need someone to look at you and properly classify and grade the symptoms, and possibliy verify and interpret whatever the expert system spits out, or perform additional checks. No MD woth his salt is going to lose his job, they are just going to get better at what they do. And, hopefully one day have enough time on their hands that they don't have to have their waiting room filled to the brim with people with infectious diseases, and instead visit the infectious patients (who actually need / benefit from a visit) at their homes.

    3. Re:Garbage by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      No, you don't. MDs make a big deal about taking histories and grading things by eye and such, but most don't really bother, aren't very good at it if they do, and, fortunately, it doesn't matter that much anyway. I have a colleague who looks quantitatively at the way physicians in a particular area use the standard scale to grade symptoms. Some do an okay job, but most are quite poor, and they're all highly variable. Various tests that are more automated or can be easily administered by a nurse (or student) perform much better.

      On top of that, most physicians can't (or don't bother) to do the basic, simple math that's required to properly evaluate test results, either quantitative or qualitative ones, don't really learn anything new more than five years post-med school (which is still during residency for many of them!), make a frightening number of mistakes, and suffer from such blatant conflicts of interest that they're regularly made fun of on comedy shows.

      I expect it will be illegal within 20 years to diagnose or prescribe without consulting an expert system. We'll have nurses, because people like the human touch, and computers. Surgeons will follow into obsolescence shortly after. The US will be a pioneer, as soon as the HMOs and insurance companies realize you can replace an expensive physician with a PC. When everyone realizes that cost cutting measure is also improving care, the rest of the world will follow.

    4. Re:Garbage by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      I'd prefer not to have the nurse personally unless I need their hands. And in that case, I might be happier with either a medical drone or a remote physician piloting a medical drone.

      The real revolution will be when the expert systems are personal. Right now you need some big super computer to do it. What happens when Moore's law puts that power on your home server or your wrist watch?

      Software.

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    5. Re:Garbage by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Granted... I used the term loosely... obviously.

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    6. Re:Garbage by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Everything you said is correct, and *today* very few white collar jobs have gone to robots and AIs. But the number of categories has been increasing incrementally over the years (well, decades). To deny the problem is to be as foolish as to panic over it. And it *does* seem to me that the rate has been increasing.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    7. Re:Garbage by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      I have no doubt a lot of jobs are going to disapeare. But I see it in a different context.

      Prior to the industrial revolution about 70 to 80 percent of all human labor was involved in agriculture. Today less then 5 percent of the labor force is in agriculture. Think of the job loss there.

      You're seeing similar losses in industrial work. A lot of people conflate jobs where people work at desks with "information" or "white collar" work. But most of the jobs being threatened by the computers are actually factory work. It is factory work at a desk moving paper but you're not really being creative or using your special knowledge more then a guy working on a factory assembly line. You have a quieter and probably less dangerous environment but you're also probably not paid as well as the guy doing that work in overalls... look up the numbers. Guys working on factory lines often make more money then people working behind desks.

      But the factory jobs are going to get automated. And that includes both the factory jobs on the machine shop floor and in the cubical farms.

      It wouldn't surprise me if 90 percent of those jobs are ultimately automated. And the jobs that remain are not going to be the same sorts of jobs any more then the farm jobs after the industrial revolution were analogous to the farm jobs before it.

      The factory jobs and farm jobs of the industrial revolution required a knowledge and facility with machinery. Instead of going out into the field and literally pushing the seeds into the dirt and then manually going out into the fields and harvesting the crops... you are going out with a machine that does one then another machine that does the other. And the job is the proper use of that machine.

      What we're seeing in the factories is that increasingly machines are doing jobs that people used to do. Often a given feed material such as plate steel comes into a factory. It goes into a press perhaps that molds the steel to given forms. Then those forms are cut out of the steel using a different machine. Then those cut parts are taken to a different machine that smooths the edges of the cuts and begins the finishing process. Next the parts are sanded and possibly cut further by a CNC machine. And then those parts are often painted at this stage. And then some sort of assembly happens where lots of different parts that have all gone through their own little process are all brought together and assembled into a marketable product.

      What is happening is that automation machines are being introduced that move parts from one machine to the next automatically, put them correctly into each machine, and often do some sort of quality control at each stage so that damaged parts can be removed from the line without wasting the time or energy of subsequent machines.

      How does this relate to the office where some people are starting to freak out? Well... did you buy auto insurance recently? Did you use a human being to buy it or price it for you? Probably not. You probably did the whole thing online. Insurance agents are only really required for insurance claims where some human intelligence is required.

      It isn't the big threat you're making it out to be. The one place I'd love to see automation totally dominate is retail sales and fast food. Those dehumanizing jobs that teenagers get where they're treated like garbage because the company cannot value them. They literally can't. They actually try and it is impossible. No chain has been able to pull it off. Automate those jobs though... and suddenly you can treat the robot like crap and not feel badly about it.

      What jobs will people get when the robots and expert systems have automated all this stuff? Jobs requiring human intelligence and ingenuity. They exist. And if your company isn't spending all that money on the robot people then you have money freed up in your payroll for other positions.

      What is more, consider the impact on small business. Suddenly a small mom and pop operation can cheaply expand what they do without h

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    8. Re:Garbage by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You don't really need a supercomputer. The math involved is really very simple. Determining what the coefficients are is difficult and expensive, requiring large trials, but once you've got them your phone, plus a nurse, lab and imaging equipment, is more than capable of diagnosing the vast majority of things you're likely to get.

      Most people do want a person around to reassure them. Also, until the robots get good enough, the nurse can provide an objective assessment of symptoms.

    9. Re:Garbage by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      As to wanting a person, I would suggest that might be a generational divide.

      Ask people over 70 and they're still pissed that they have to get out of the car to pump gas. They'd prefer a guy come up and pump it for them.

      Where as my generation is much happier to avoid the check out line that has a person checking people out and just use the check out robot.

      Same thing with ordering pizza... my father or mother for example would much rather call a number and talk to someone to order their pizza. I'd much rather log into a website, fill out a form, and then wait for a cell phone call when the pizza arrives.

      My attitude with medical technology is similar. Consider that a lot of the lab equipment you're talking about could be consumerized. If I can buy a digital blood sugar detector at the pharmacy for 20 dollars or a pregnancy test for 5 dollars then why can't I buy any number of tests and perform them myself? If a teenage girl is competent to pee on a stick and note if the color on the strip changes color or a diabetic is competent to manage their blood sugar on a daily basis... then why can't I check for a million other things?

      All you need to do is provide me with a consumerizzed test. I've seen some DNA scanners for sale that are less then a 1000 dollars. If you can sell me a machine that scans DNA for less then a thousand then I should think pretty much any blood or urine test should be something you could consumerize. What if rather then going to see a doctor twice a year, I buy some of this equipment and just test myself... going through the expense of buying new consumables for the various tests as required. I can test not only myself but my entire family. I can then feed the test data into a medical database that analyzes the information and makes formulaic medical diagnosis.

      I am generally not a big fan of the FDA... but if I have to see a doctor to get a prescription then so be it. I have family that have long standing medical conditions that are not going to improve yet they have to go to the doctor at intervals to get their prescriptions renewed. They shouldn't have to do that. They should just go to the pharmacy and buy the drug. That is a different discussion however.

      The big mistake in the healthcare reform push was to try and increase coverage rather then decrease costs. Costs have gone up as a result while the change in coverage is debatable. The thing I like about this technology is that it lowers costs and bypasses increasingly over priced medical institutions that are bound in legal requirements that are unreasonable... and again... mostly serve to make healthcare costs higher. Rather then put up with that bullshit, I'd like to just buy the tests myself and self diagnose.

      Here you might ask "where is my medical degree?"... I'm entitled to see to my own medical diagnosis if I choose to do that. Some may want to do it another way... that is also their right. But I suspect economics alone will encourage people to my way of looking at it.

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    10. Re:Garbage by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      When they get something serious, most people want a person around, regardless of their age. Most people also want a person around to do things like take blood, give injections, etc. Things like physiotherapy also work much better with a personal touch. We'll undoubtedly invent robots at some point that will do that, but it's further off.

    11. Re:Garbage by Karmashock · · Score: 0

      And those same people are old and they would prefer if the gas were pumped by hand as well.

      For some things I'll want a person too. For 90 percent of what you do at a hospital... I'll go non-human, thanks.

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  8. That was a ROBOT??!? by mbstone · · Score: 1

    His business card said "Office of the Public Defender."

    1. Re:That was a ROBOT??!? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

      He IS a defender robot. He is here to protect you. Grandma is protected at the bottom of the stairs.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  9. Technology takes a long time to catch up. by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

    I'm sure many devs have had jobs where they're working on some sort of killer automation. Something that makes them look out into a sea of office workers thinking "by end of year, we'll only need half of you..."

    They're jobs that technology has long since claimed, yet they still exist. Nothing's perfect. It'll be a slow road.

  10. I saw an add by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Skynet is hiring engineers!

  11. Re:Republicans won't be happy until none of us hav by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I won't be happy until none of us 'have a job'. Jobs suck! I want the damn machine to cook and clean and wipe my butt, and form a warm, moist cocoon around my.... Okay, that's enough... Back to your cell, punk!

  12. The fix by sjames · · Score: 2

    Create automation that replaces politicians, CEOs, and economists and watch the fixes fly!

    We just need a set of context sensitive executive decision makers (deluxe model uses an actual radiation source for random numbers.). They can have options like 'steal from social programs', 'tax the poor', 'Give banks a handout', 'blame the other party', etc. CEO versions can include 'give employees food stamp applications', 'layoff', 'plunder the pension fund', etc.

    1. Re:The fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, being the ones in charge, they would just keep their obscenely high-paying jobs and consider the automation as a tool. Kind of like if factory workers could replace themselves with robots and then continue to collect their paychecks while sitting at home watching tv.

    2. Re:The fix by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      There was a story on Slashdot a while ago about a study showing that most financial spreadsheets have so many errors in them that corporate financial decisions are basically random.

  13. Decrease in private sector jobs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are huge problems in the world that desperately need solving. But most of the people who need those problems solved are too poor to pay for a solution. And most of the solutions depend on a major increase in knowledge (e.g. scientific research) which is very cumbersome to fund via a free market. The government can create artificial monopolies (patents and copyrights) but, once the government is meddling in the free market so arbitrarily, it's not clear that's any better than just having the government fund the work directly. Scientific progress doesn't just magically appear for free out of thin air. It needs to be paid for one way or another.

    In one possible future, it would be easy to find meaningful work solving the world's big problems but most jobs would be in the public sector - and taxes, on the rich at least, would be very high. In another possible future, the big problems wouldn't get solved and most people would be reduced to performing frivolous little chores for a small number of extremely powerful rich families in order to avoid starvation - but rich families would live out fabulous lives of idle luxury.

    1. Re:Decrease in private sector jobs? by khallow · · Score: 2

      There are huge problems in the world that desperately need solving. But most of the people who need those problems solved are too poor to pay for a solution. And most of the solutions depend on a major increase in knowledge (e.g. scientific research) which is very cumbersome to fund via a free market.

      There's a huge class of huge problems that have known solutions, but neither the will or competence to implement them. It's also not a matter of wealth since developed world societies have nailed down a lot of problems despite starting at deeper levels of poverty.

      it's not clear that's any better than just having the government fund the work directly.

      Sure, it is. Government is absolutely shit at figuring out what is good research. One thing we need to remember here is that there used to be a huge, privately funded science powerhouse in the developed world. That got scrapped because it was easier and more profitable to siphon public funds than to do work that had actual risk to it.

      In one possible future, it would be easy to find meaningful work solving the world's big problems but most jobs would be in the public sector - and taxes, on the rich at least, would be very high.

      Not really. Welcome to the world of perverse incentives. Your bureaucracy goes away, if you actually solve the problem your bureaucracy was set up to solve.

      In another possible future, the big problems wouldn't get solved and most people would be reduced to performing frivolous little chores for a small number of extremely powerful rich families in order to avoid starvation - but rich families would live out fabulous lives of idle luxury.

      I think this is the actual future your ideas steer us towards. But fortunately, I have another solution. How about we just get out of the way of the people trying to work and the people trying to hire?

    2. Re:Decrease in private sector jobs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Perverse Economic Incentives' would be a good porn movie title.

  14. All hail project Venus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When will we finally build a society where the wealth produced by robots is more or less equally distributed among all people? Human replacement should be greeted with cheers rather than be something to worry about.

  15. First role taken over by sonamchauhan · · Score: 2

    Google "define computer"

    Answer: "[...] a person who makes calculations, especially with a calculating machine."

    That role was the first to go - the others are just side-effects.

  16. Not Worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There will always be a market for bikini mud wrestling, get out those thongs dudes...

  17. start with congress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we can AI politicians so that washington runs properly, and for the people for a change, I'm sure that create an unlimited supply of jobs.

  18. Re:Republicans won't be happy until none of us hav by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love killing jobs. The first time was designing 9 axis CNC controllers in 1978. Cocaine, pot, Detroit, Chicago and polyester shirts, Debauchery. Times were good, The Z80 and amd2900 stomped the tera.

  19. Journalism has already been crowdsourced by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Journalism has already been crowdsourced. All you have to do is look at the number of blog postings and discussions at any website that references "news" articles (including Slashdot) to realize that.

    Newspapers are already being forced into a co-operative model to apply the resources needed to do true investigative reporting, like the most recent HSBC scandal. None of them have enough staff left on the payroll to do it by themselves.

    Software and IT have much the same problem, though the "crowd" is a bunch of cheap overseas labourers instead of the general public. But the end result is the same -- highly paid skilled professionals replaced by cheap mob mentality grunts working on the "million monkeys" theory of producing quality.

    The legal profession has been impacted big time just by the ability to do keyword searches of article databases instead of paying junior staff to do the legwork of researching relevant cases for the lawyers in a firm. Most new lawyers are finding it hard as hell to get into any real firms to gain experience as a result, much less ever be offered a partnership.

    Note that not one of these changes required anything as earth-shattering as "AI" -- just automation and distribution of common tasks.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  20. No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by retroworks · · Score: 2

    What never fails to concern people is that 100 years ago, 80% of humans worked in agriculture and earned $5k per year, and today we are replacing jobs that pay $100K per year at X rate with technology (or imports etc.)... Can we deduce from those two facts that the future is in jeopardy? "Poverty used to be in decline, but now wealth is in decline!" That's the argumentum in terrorem or "doom and gloom" fallacy.

    The people quoted in TFA are having trouble speculating what the new jobs will be. Recall the hysteria in the 1970s and 80s about the number of USA jobs moving to Japan, or the 90s-2000s jobs moving to China. 80,000 jobs doing X were lost was a constant headline over 4-5 decades. Yet my state has

    If the 80,000 jobs lost to Y during X period was an accurate predictor of concern we'd have reached 90% unemployment a decade ago. Technology both replaces and creates jobs, like App Developer or 3D computer animation artist, or smartphone assembler, that no one imagined. True, most of the new jobs being created today are being created in emerging markets, but as China develops more cell phone assembly jobs, USA sells China more Buicks.

    If someone with a time machine had gone back to meet me 30 years ago and shown me film of me using a cell phone to browse the internet and speak to my kid in Europe, and told me the technology cost me $30K per year, I'd have believed that. And today that "imagined value" means I'm living like a person making $29k more than I actually am.

    The BLS has not been the greatest predictor of which jobs will be in demand, but has predicted employment markets in aggregate pretty well. "The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) predicted a 15% increase in the employment for all animal care and service workers between 2012 and 2022; however, employment of zookeepers was predicted to grow more slowly than other positions (www.bls.gov)." http://www.bls.gov/ooh/fastest...

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by retroworks · · Score: 1

      OOps "Yet my state has UNDER 5% unemployment, and 15% of the people are difficult to imagine employing" I used the "sideways V" symbol and html disappeared the sentence fragment.

      --
      Gently reply
    2. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Part of the issue here is that history provides no guide. There have been times in the past that show simularities, like the industrial revolution, but they are no more than simularities - computers is a fundamentally new technology, and so it is hard to estimate the impact of an event that has never before occured.

      importantly, many of these new jobs do not scale with population. If the population doubles then you need twice as many farmers growing food, twice as many people at production lines to make their clothing, twice as many doctors to keep them healthy - but you do not need twice as many programmers to make their apps. The labor cost of digital creation is the same no matter how many people eventually benefit from it. That imposes a limit on how many developers are needed to maintain the robots of the 'new economy.' The only jobs there that scale with population are tech support and hardware maintenance.

    3. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by itzly · · Score: 1

      They want everyone to be poor so they can control us. It is all about control. That is why their kind moves jobs out of the country. What you described is their master plan. They want us to starve.

      What good does it do to control an army of poor and starving people ?

    4. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      As they say in the Stock Market:

      Past performance is no predictor of future results.

      A lot of people who thought otherwise when buying mortgage-backed securities learned that the hard way not long ago.

      If you can mathematically prove that any time jobs are handed off to external forces that new jobs will spontaneously arrive to replace them, you will be awarded a Nobel Prize. No question of it.

      As it is, you're simply extrapolating, and extrapolation has become extremely hazardous in the last century because of the higher rates of change in so many contributing factors.

      What the rest of us are trying to do is figure out some sort of workable alternative in case these new jobs don't create themselves fast enough to replace the jobs that are being lost. And, for that matter, what to do about the general downsizing of relative income levels in the last 20-30 years.

    5. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by retroworks · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that current results have never been predicted accurately in the past. Sure, it could all go horribly wrong this time, but just watch Hans Rosling's video and try to see how everyone is going to go backwards for the first time in a century. More efficient production makes more affordable product which makes for higher consumption which creates more jobs. http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_... I keep seeing people are suspicious and concerned it's going wrong, but that's also explained in the video. Terror sells papers.

      --
      Gently reply
    6. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      which makes for higher consumption which creates more jobs

      ... but now even those jobs will be automated. Foxconn is buying enough robots to automate their assembly work, throwing a million people out of work, because robots are now cheaper than slave labor wage humans.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henrys by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      But again, that's just extrapolation. Blind hope without even the promise of faith that things will be ever and ever the same, amen without a point where one more straw breaks the camel's back.

      That's neither prudent nor human. We succeed because we ask "what if?", not because we assume.

      Bill Gates can afford as much toilet paper as anyone could ever want, but how much will he buy?

      Conversely, when no one has any income, what does it matter how cheap things are? That's like giving them a tax break based on a percentage of their paycheck. A recipe for social unrest.

      There are of course, systems where not having a paycheck isn't a problem. Communism (in the abstract), for an example. But that's a very repugnant concept to most US citizens and it would have to be a wholly different system than any of the failures that have arisen up until now.

  21. the best comment on this entire thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gay stupid article by an idiot luddite who is just jealous that he majored in shitty journalism studies instead of being smart enough to get a real degree in something that actually matters in life like mathematics. There seem to be a lot of these lately, probably because sales are down for their crappy, boring, preachy magazines and newspapers, and they whine and blame others in childish fits of moral outrage. Meanwhile they are too stupid to see the real reason sales are down is because nobody likes to read childish fits of moral outrage.

  22. Idle question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Where do the many whose occupations have become obsolete go?" Nowhere. It's that simple. It should be painfully clear to all but the simplest intellects that we have a huge population surplus. The rational thing to do is encourage the excess people to stop reproducing so that we can use some of the meager resources at our disposal to support them for what's left of their lives. We need to cull the population drastically over the next 2 generations, provided the idiots don't make other little idiots who will believe the world owes them a living. The simple fact is: if you're not a One Percenter by now, you will never become one. You're in the surplus population and should understand that no, this world does not need you anymore, and that there is no other one. Accept extinction.

  23. Where the economic system breaks down by russbutton · · Score: 2
    Our economic system and extensive robotic automation of production are inherently incompatible. Machines can replace labor, but if humans aren't working, then they have no jobs and no money to spend, and then you have nobody for you to sell your goods and services to.

    Back in the 1960's, there was a TV show called "The 21st Century", which was narrated by Walter Cronkite. He kept going on about how much more leisure time people would have in the 21st century. What the futurists of the day forgot to consider was that if you put everyone out of a job, nobody is going to have money to spend, and thus there would be no market to sell to.

    1. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by ledow · · Score: 1

      1) Robots cannot replace all jobs. We've yet to make a self-fixing robot of any note. AI is NOWHERE NEAR capable of doing the simplest of paperwork or administration. Hell, we've barely automated anything of the IT departments, let alone anywhere else. All they can automate are mindless, repetitive, labour-intensive (and sometimes dangerous) jobs. Though that puts a LOT of people out of work, that's by far not the majority.

      2) If robots do replace all jobs, the "money" comes from sale of goods just the same. Half the workforce are working and doing the work of the other half - the robots produce the goods / services, and the humans lounge at home. In fact, if anything, we'll have more money because we could produce more for less maintenance costs and have no union troubles - once the machine is in, it'll carry on working until the power goes out, effectively, and cost pence to run in the meantime as an "hourly wage".

      3) The result of the above is that food and goods become so cheap and plentiful that the concept of "buying" them will seem old hat. If a government could pay for itself by selling goods to other countries still, then it doesn't really matter what you do - you could quite literally be paid to stay at home, if all you have to do to "do" the same amount of work is power up a robot and oil him once a week Mass amounts of automated robots also make self-sufficiency much more possible - imagine that you don't have to farm or buy goods, just let the same robot that works for Kelloggs loose on your land and it'll feed you for minimal cost.

      4) This is all a pipe-dream. By the time you have that sort of automation, the only jobs left would be bureaucratic - and they'd realise they're the only ones working. Things would flip on their head.

      5) Who cares? If you have no job and no money but food is so cheap that going an oiling a robot once a month pays for everything - wow... perfect life.

    2. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by itzly · · Score: 1

      The result of the above is that food and goods become so cheap and plentiful

      At least you'll need a source of free and unlimited energy for that.

    3. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by swb · · Score: 1

      Automation can't replace all jobs, but from what I've read there are a couple of concerns.

      A lot of the jobs that seem to be most easily automatable are "good" white collar jobs that previously had required some skill. There's a lot less manufacturing left (partly due to automation, but partly due to offshoring of manufacturing), so there's a lot less fallback jobs outside of very low wage service jobs.

      Even if the job loss ends up being only 20%, 20% unemployment is a big deal. It can have higher-order economic impacts on significant markets, like real estate, it can have potentially destabilizing political effects which can feed back into the economic system through bad policy,

      There is also an amplification of inequality from automation, as technology allows greater amounts of capital to be controlled by fewer people, usually with a feedback loop that allows them access to superior technology, enabling advantages in capital control.

    4. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by tmosley · · Score: 1

      You work one of the few jobs that needs to be done by people, earning multiple millions in current purchasing power a year, and retire within a few years to live off of the interest. As a society gets richer, they work less, not by working shorter hours, but by retiring or "retiring" early. I, for one, wouldn't mind having a chain of robo-restaurants that I spend a few hours a week looking over while they rake in the bux.

    5. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by monkeyxpress · · Score: 1

      Where your argument breaks down is that while robots have the potential to significantly increase economic output, the IP used to build the robots, the raw material source they consume, and land humans live on are all limited resources. As the cost of produced goods and services falls, the relative cost of anything naturally limited increases (you could say it is staying the same but everything else is deflating around it). This makes it harder and harder for those involved in the production side of things to acquire any capital of their own, causing a massive inequality problem. My observation is that the economy deals with this by spitting people out and creating an underclass that cannot engage in the otherwise rapidly growing economy. We call most of these people 'poor' and say they just need to work harder.

    6. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by russbutton · · Score: 1

      2) If robots do replace all jobs, the "money" comes from sale of goods just the same. Half the workforce are working and doing the work of the other half - the robots produce the goods / services, and the humans lounge at home.

      And just who is going to give money to the humans lounging at home with which they will pay for housing, food, clothing, transportation, goods and services? How much money will they be given? Or is this "home" you speak of just going to be a tent in Hooverville?

      3) The result of the above is that food and goods become so cheap and plentiful that the concept of "buying" them will seem old hat.

      The economic system is one where all goods and services have to be paid for at some level. Even subsidized services like public transportation and health care require some level of payment. Are you suggesting that the long-term unemployed will be government subsidized sufficiently to have an apartment to live in, with Internet, streaming electronic entertainment, beer in the fridge ("free as in beer") and an endless supply of junk food?

      5) Who cares? If you have no job and no money but food is so cheap that going an oiling a robot once a month pays for everything - wow... perfect life.

      Even if food, goods and housing are amazingly cheap, if you have no money to pay for them, then they are still too expensive for you.

    7. Re:Where the economic system breaks down by hey! · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing about technology prognostication. Timing is everything. Take predicting tablets being a big market success. People were making tablets back in the early 90s and people were predicting that it would take off. But the timing was wrong. It's clear to anyone who saw 2001 that tablets would someday be a big deal, but it took more knowledge than most people have to understand the prerequisites that could make that vision come true (display technology, battery weight and volume, processor performance and consumption, memory density).

      This caution applies to dystopian predictions as well. People have been predicting that automation would destroy the economy for hundreds of years by now. Instead automation has increased productivity and raised wages. So it seems sensible to dismiss future predictions of an automation apocalypse. Except we can't.

      Reasoning from historical experience is for most people reasoning by vague analogy. But each moment in history has to be looked at on its own terms, because sometimes things have to be just right for a certain scenario to unfold. The devil is in the details. So the idea that automation is going to produce mass unemployment is not certain either way. We have to look at conditions in *this* moment of history and reason specifically. That's hard to do.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  24. Metalicarap will be the equaliser by DMJC · · Score: 1

    Frankly I'm not worried, anyone who can scrape together the metals to build a metalicarap will be able to manufacture pretty much anything. I think we'll see a massive reaping of the super rich and a redistribution of wealth amongst everyone once the need for Labor is completely eliminated.

  25. Re: No More Blacksmiths, CRT Repairmen, John Henry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Easier to lead them into the furnaces.

  26. optimization by umghhh · · Score: 1

    Lets face it - the drive to optimize and automate things cannot be stopped and its natural consequence is that most jobs will be optimized out of existence making it the first time in history possible to live off of the rent. This does not have to happen today but some day in the future the automation may come to a stable point.
    The question is then who possess it all. The other is what will happen with out-optimized people. I think great SF works show it all - intelligent ones in societies that share and redistribute may have a life of art and science leaving the lower classes to indulging in chemical and technological stimulants.

    Possibly you can also have a situation where you just leave the majority to itself. If they have no means and cannot acquire any (no jobs) this will lead to violence.

    The other interesting point is this. Automation and optimization is nice but it has a weak spot - it is optimized for a given set of parameters and given ranges. If something major happens the qualities of humans that have not been put into automated infrastructure may be needed to survive changed environment. At the end it is as it always was - something big happens (Toba blows up or 1% goes for soylent green solution etc) and the survivors have earth for themselves.

  27. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The professional class has been immune from this for too long, demanding everyone else get a PhD.

    Time for a rethink.

  28. The Australia Project by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 1

    FTW

    1. Re:The Australia Project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I really wish the last part of that story that gets into specifics and mind power garbage weren't there, because the first half or more is a fantastic way to show the average person what the future looks like and what can be done, but the second half would sour most peoples opinion of it and make it all seem like fantasy.

  29. 47 percent of total U.S. jobs could be automated by Yanglish · · Score: 1

    This will lead to higher unemployment. What to do with the huge number of people in this case in 2033?

    --
    Success is the sum of small efforts - repeated day in and day out.
  30. This just in.. by Marc+D+Hall · · Score: 2

    ...the industrial revolution!

  31. To The Streets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To the streets, my son, to the streets. There they exchange their services and products with other people not able to buy the essential services performed by our new overlords while waiting for another raid by the automatic police force for illegal exchange of services. It's time for a revolution!

  32. What's Different Now by tmosley · · Score: 1

    What's different now is that we have an out of control redistribution machine running full speed all across the planet Earth, working hard to stuff the pockets of people who say "no" (bureaucrats) and most especially the cronies of the central banks (ie Wall Street, finance industry, etc). If people were A. allowed to do what they wanted, and were prosecuted or sued for actual HARM rather than prevented from doing things because someone thought they MIGHT harm someone (not to mention forced to hire people to deal with regulators)and B. were allowed to keep the fruits of their labors (government used to spend 2-5% of GDP, not it spends well over 40%, even China only spends 20% of GDP), you can bet a multitude of new and interesting opportunities would arise very, very quickly.

    We see things like Uber coming about, and even persisting in the face of government bans. Imagine if all the things that are easy for governments to stop suddenly could move forward. Flying cars in five years for starters (the FAA has been the one standing in their way for 30+ years, shooting down EVERY SINGLE PROPOSAL). Who knows what other wonders await?

  33. Seriously though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When will you evil republicans learn? They're only taking jobs that white collar workers won't do. You're just racist against robots.

  34. 47 Percent by Skeptical1 · · Score: 1

    *Meekly* I have a modest proposal.

  35. Nothing new here... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

    Repetitive and easily managed process are ripe for replacement, just ask telephone operators, and higher paid positions are reduced in favor of less costly staff trained in specific functions, just as MD's about NPs and Nurse Anesthetists. As machines get better at collecting, analyzing and recognizing patterns people who do that will be replaced by machines, just as the spreadsheet replaced begins of low level accountants crunching numbers by hand. The ability to use that information for decisions making will mean higher level cognitive skills will still be in demand, as will the ability to recognize and react in unforeseen circumstances. Flying FedEx drones from a room in Memphis is a great idea, but what happens when you lose the radio link or your instrument data goes haywire and you need to figure to what is going on; while controlling a hundred other plans as well? Planes already have gone to 2 person crews since automation has eliminated the need for the flight engineer and many planes can pretty much fly from takeoff to touchdown without a pilot's intervention but the pilots are there not for the routine but for the unexpected. It's the ability to apply a solution in an unforeseen situation or green insights that will continue to be valuable; sure a machine can predict the success of a lawsuit, or the probability of a winning hand, but a good lawyer, like a good poker player, can find a way to turn a loser into a winner and that's what people pay for.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  36. Even if you accept that new jobs will be created.. by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

    Even if you accept the premise that new jobs will be created by the new technologies, there are still risks.
    1) The new more-demanding jobs will be beyond the intelligence and abilities of a larger and larger portion of the population. What happens when the computers and robots are smarter than the average bear/human?
    2) Even if a person is capable of performing one of these more-demanding jobs, the new jobs will demand that they spend more and more years in training and learning. Without a significant increase in human life-span there will be a point of diminishing returns where a live person spends so much time learning and training that they don't nave enough time to actually work and earn money after that.
    3) If the technologies keep accelerating, it's very likely that the machines will become flexible enough and smart enough that they can learn any task faster than a human. Even some "creative" tasks are really just applications of logic and reason (science). At that point the alternatives are between a) a massive redistribution of wealth so that all people share in the bounty created by the robots, b) we ban artificial intelligence or c) if there is any spark of human creativity that is beyond the capabilities of robots and computers, that will be the last refuge of human labor..

    But even if we all become painters and singers and mimes, poverty will still be real: 90% of everything created by people is crap. So the creative society is still likely to require a massive redistribution of wealth.

    I suppose another alternative is a massive depopulation of the human species on earth. That can easily be accomplished if the struggle for wealth distribution devolves into war.

    --
    We are the 198 proof..
  37. They need to replace executives... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Robots can do the most worthless employees jobs far more efficiently and save corporations a lot more money.
    Start with the executives. Hell roombas can make better decisions than these guys.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  38. Slashdotters in denial by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    First they replaced the assembly line workers. I didn't say anything because I wasn't an assembly line worker
    Then they replaced the cashiers and greeters. I didn't say anything because I wasn't a cashier or greeter.
    Then they replaced the teachers. I didn't say anything because I wasn't a teacher.
    Then they replaced the drivers, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a driver.
    Then they replaced middle management. I didn't say anything because I wasn't middle management.
    Then they replaced the teachers. I didn't say anything because I wasn't a teacher.
    When they replaced the programmers, there wasn't anyone to say anything to.

    Oh, that 47% figure. Now throw in the jobs off-shored or H1B'd. What's a former airline pilot or surgeon going to do? Work at Tim Horton's, when all the staff have been replaced by droids?

    On the "good" side, pollution and congestion should go down, since there won't be anyone driving to and from work or school.

    Remember those "Freedom 55" commercials? A few years ago, they interviewed the guy who did them, and he said there's no way he'd be financially able to retire at 55 with today's life expectancies. But in the future, most people will be doing make-work programs that could be automated more efficiently, such as mowing lawns or picking up roadside trash, just to give them something to do so that they feel they've "earned" their dole.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Slashdotters in denial by danbert8 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Apparently the first time they didn't do a very good job of replacing the teachers...

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    2. Re:Slashdotters in denial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ssshhh, its not a bug, its a feature. The program never gets to the firing programmers bit.

  39. Where do the many go? by overshoot · · Score: 1

    Landfills, just like any other obsolete and unwanted assets.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  40. Decrease work week by deksza · · Score: 1

    According to a recent Oxford study, half of our jobs can be automated over the next couple decades: http://artificial-intelligence... Maybe the solution should be to reduce our working ours to share the remaining jobs and have more leisure time: http://artificial-intelligence...

  41. not being replaced just being changed. by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

    These white collar jobs aren't being replaced any more than the spreadsheet and accounting software replaced the accountant.
    There is still a human at the top. A computer can't completely replace a lawyer and won't be able to for a very long time.
    This is just FUD. There are jobs that are at risk and just like what has happened with farmers, ditch diggers, and accountants
    one person can now handle the work of 10 (or 100) people but as long as the pace is reasonable and there is still a need for
    a percentage of humans at the top then we'll be fine. Let's start worrying about it when you see a mcdonalds, a public school,
    or a hospital without any employees. Granted by then it might be too late but we're not there yet. Not even close.

    1. Re:not being replaced just being changed. by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      These white collar jobs aren't being replaced any more than the spreadsheet and accounting software replaced the accountant.

      The head accountant is still there but the overall size of accounting departments and associated administrative staff have shrunk massively over the last fifty years.

    2. Re:not being replaced just being changed. by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      The head accountant is still there but the overall size of accounting departments and associated administrative staff have shrunk massively over the last fifty years.

      That was my point. The number of farm workers has also drastically declined but in both cases
      we haven't seen a huge spike in unemployment. I see these particular job areas reacting about
      the same. There are occupations that are more worrisome but I don't see making an occupation
      more efficient as being one of those areas.

    3. Re:not being replaced just being changed. by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      The number of farm workers has also drastically declined but in both cases we haven't seen a huge spike in unemployment.

      That is because the displaced farm workers were able to move into the manufacturing sector. More recently displaced manufacturing workers have been moving to the service sector for at least forty years. The question is, now that the service sector is going through the same process where are all the workers going to move to? (There are only three sectors to the economy) While 100% automation is unlikely any time soon, if manufacturing and the service sector become as efficient as Agriculture then we're looking at less than 4% of the population being employed. Those sort of levels would have profound social consequences.

    4. Re:not being replaced just being changed. by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      The question is, now that the service sector is going through the same process where are all the workers going to move to? (There are only three sectors to the economy)

      I would probably add entertainment as a different sector (although it technically might fall under service)
      But unfortunately although entertainment is a large chunk of people's disposable
      income, the majority of entertainment is also produced by only about 4% of the population.

      If we only need 4% of the population to provide everybody's food, goods, services, and entertainment,
      I'm not sure what we're suppose to do with the excess labor. Luckily, I think we're still a long way from
      there. The service industry still has alot of room. There are plenty of services that people are willing
      to pay for whether it is for a massage or for a housekeeper. General purpose housecleaning robots
      are still a long way off.

  42. Reform IP by monkeyxpress · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to agree with you on the basic income, but now I'm not so sure. The mistake a lot of socialists tend to make is assuming that humans will go do some thing useful with their time if they have no need to work to survive. I think this is not a valid general assumption, and if it isn't then socialism eats itself (interestingly in the same way capitalism eats itself due to greed), not due to an inability to supply the needs of the population, but due to social breakdown. These days I'm starting to think the best solution is to democratise knowledge on a grand scale. In the end the real driver of growth is not a guy who knows how to make houses but only accepts a limited few 'apprentices' into the guild that produces them. It is when the knowledge required to make houses is distributed to everyone. It is bizarre to me that while our technology economy is based on the body of knowledge put together over centuries by others that we use for free, it has now become almost dominated by this notion that if I come up with an idea nobody else in the entire world should be able to use it but me for the next twenty years. I remember reading about how Jonny Ives felt Samsung had stolen time he could have spent with his family by infringing Apple patents. I just find this level of arrogance amazing. Sure, say they 'stole' billions of dollars from you and moan about that, but trying to elevate your ability to make rounded rectangles into some kind of Herculean sacrifice that can never be sufficiently rewarded, even with $100million in your bank account, just shows the problems our economy is going to face as technology becomes more important and those who own the rights to it become more intoxicated with their own egos. The heart of the equality argument in the face of automation is the ownership of knowledge. That is where we need to be looking for solutions.

    1. Re:Reform IP by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      You should look at the things people build in prison. There is no shortage of ingenuity. There is a shortage of time and opportunity. A basic income would open the world for alot of people.

    2. Re:Reform IP by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      I used to agree with you on the basic income, but now I'm not so sure. The mistake a lot of socialists tend to make is assuming that humans will go do some thing useful with their time if they have no need to work to survive. I think this is not a valid general assumption, and if it isn't then socialism eats itself (interestingly in the same way capitalism eats itself due to greed), not due to an inability to supply the needs of the population, but due to social breakdown.

      Social breakdown isn't the normal problem of socialism, rather it's the allocation of benefits at a rate faster than wealth is produced. In order for a society to have successful socialism it must first A) Be exceedingly wealthy, B) Have a way to continue generating large amounts of wealth even after incentives for work are reduced, C) Ensure that beneficiaries can't vote themselves wealth greater than what is being produced. So far we haven't managed to create a society that can do all three at the same time but automation may fix A&B enough that a bit of social design to fix C might make the whole thing workable.

    3. Re:Reform IP by Baki · · Score: 1

      So you say, if we could automate away all work, because many would not spend all that free time as you think is useful, we have to create artificial work to keep the people busy?

    4. Re:Reform IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But a negative income tax or universal basic income would help the poor. It's awful we as a society are willing to let people become homeless.

      Furthermore, the creative arts can't be automated away so easily. TV, YouTube, etc.

  43. Re:Even if you accept that new jobs will be create by burtosis · · Score: 1

    I suppose another alternative is a massive depopulation of the human species on earth. That can easily be accomplished if the struggle for wealth distribution devolves into war.

    At least war is something that humans with few weapons/resources afforded to them are much more effective at than self replicating robot armies decked out with the latest military hardware.

  44. "...invaded by our robot overlords." by QilessQi · · Score: 1

    Did you say "overlords"? You meant "protectors": https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  45. technology has always destroyed jobs by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    Technology has been decimating jobs since the industrial revolution. But all the jobs destroyed were in India and China. They had 25% of the world GDP before industrialization. They had even higher fraction before the age of exploration distributed cash crops (sugarcane, tea, coffee, breadfruit, cotton) around the world. So for centuries all the philosophers, economists and sociologists did not even understand the full impact of the industrialization. Mostly they saw it as political issues, colonialism, anti-colonialism, etc etc.

    Read the The Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley to get an idea of the doom and gloom being predicted for centuries. Matt takes the view all these gloom predictors were wrong and the industrialization is an unadulterated success for humanity. He seems to think humanity consists of Europe and USA. This review sums it up nicely

    The job destruction is also accompanied with wealth transfers and power transfers. Finally the job destruction finally lapped up the shores of Europe and USA by 1980s. Slowly middle class of America is waking up to what has been done to them. Their jobs are gone. The "wealth" they have as home equity is a fickle fictional paper gain. Their pensions are gone. Their investments in 401K funds is being used to transfer more power to the top 0.5% of the rich.

    Typically very smart and hard working people end up in the top 2% by income and usually end up in the band 98th percentile and 99.5percentile. (To reach the top 0.5% you must have inherited wealth or take huge risks and be lucky). The wealth transfers from third world to industrialized nations had run its course, wealth transfer from the bottom 80% to top 20% has run its course. Till then these guys were very happy and egging it along. Now there is no real wealth left below 90%. The momentum of the economic policies set in motion by them is taking money from the 90 to 98 band and moving it to the top 0.5%.

    If you finish college and get in to the 99% cut off entry level salary and stay exactly at the 99% cut off all through your career, it is not enough to get you into the top 1% by wealth (5 million according to IRS and 8 million according to the feds). Till about 2000s, top doctors, lawyers, accountants routinely made it to the top 1% without inheritance. Not any longer. Citation provided

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  46. Race Against the Machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A quick read by Erik Brynjolfsson and Andrew McAfee of MIT lays out the situation. Technology has always eliminated some jobs while creating others. Generally, manual labor and low skill jobs where replaced, while higher skill jobs where created. The hypothesis is that somehow this time is different. Technology is now eliminating high and semi-skilled labor while not creating new jobs elsewhere.

    They introduce the concept that we are entering "the second half of the chess board" The concept is based on wheat and chessboard problem" which demonstrates how poor humans are at conceptualizing exponential growth. See also Ray Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns

  47. I've got less work to do. But I'm more important. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    What I'm observing right now is that I, as a computer expert, have less work to do because most of the programming for what I did the last 15 years is done already and available for free. Example from a related field: Good fonts would cost a few hundred bucks 10 years ago. Now they are available for free with MS, Google and Co. constantly shelling out new ones. We all know what usefull server setups or IDEs used to cost and how easyly they are available for free, in abundance.

    Curiously enough, I do get the impression that, although there is less work to do at times, I'm actually more important as an expert, because people don't know where to look when that one little thing needs fixing.

    I expect that to be even more so in the future for jobs that will remain in our field. Guess you call that true expert jobs.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  48. Ironic by justthinkit · · Score: 1

    Ironic that TFA is full of typos.

    Some experts say not to worry because technology has always created new jobs while eliminating old ones ones, displacing but not replacing workers.

    The company claims it can weave that data into a compelling narrative that on a skill level an experienced writer can do

    can automate delivery of low-level anesthesia in applications like colonoscopies at the fraction of the cost

    I never could have predicted have the things that have come to play ten years ago

    --
    I come here for the love
    1. Re:Ironic by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well its obvious the tfa writer is working the job of an AI or the job of a robot.

      the blurb was puzzling enough. like, what job is an AI? or robot? or they mean that robot builders now need to build robots to build robots or AI developers are being replaced by AI's? surely they're not.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Ironic by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Yes. Clearly written by a human. The automated articles don't have typos.

    3. Re:Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Artificial inseminator?

  49. Robot Baby Sitter Interview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see in your previous job, you were a paint shaker at Home Depot?

    1. Re:Robot Baby Sitter Interview by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      No, programmer. But nice try.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  50. The Big Picture by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    When the cost of automating the factory jobs in places like China is less than paying humans to do it, then you will see big problems.
    Right now the talk is about, "they will move the jobs to Indonesia or Africa", etc; How would the CCP deal with Billions of unemployed? How would the US govt?

    The problem starts when large groups of people lose their jobs to automation and robots.

    What would happen to those employed in the Ag industries if tech showed up that could pick and process produce much quicker and cheaper than people could?
    What would happen to those employed in the janitorial services if tech showed up that could clean offices, hotels, etc much quicker and cheaper than people could?
    What will happen to those employed in the food service occupations when tech shows up that can cook quicker, easier and cheaper than people can?

    Yes, the white collar job losses to automation, robotics and software will continue and are alarming, but when large groups of lower income and less educated people become unemployed due to technology, then you will see the robotic "security forces" used in all their glory to control a dispossessed and desperate human population.

    You can guarantee "think tanks" around the world are already planning for this inevitability.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  51. Lawyers by nealric · · Score: 1

    IIAAL.

    What robots are doing is not replacing lawyers per-se, but making lawyers more productive (just like accountants, programmers, and a host of other white collar professions). It used to be (and still is to some extent) that in large lawsuits, you would need armies of lawyers just reviewing documents produced by the other side to see if they were relevant to the case. 90% of them would just be emails asking to go grab coffee, 9% would be tangentially related to the case, and 1% would actual be important to the case. The people who did this work were either junior associates or temporary "doc review" attorneys, who generally graduated from bottom of the barrel law schools and couldn't find more interesting work. Now, algorithms can sort out most of those irrelevant documents, leaving human attorneys to sort through only the tangentially relevant documents from the very relevant documents.

    But while this allows fewer lawyers to handle more cases, it doesn't remove the fundamental need for lawyers. The only way a robot will handle substantive legal work, no matter how good the AI, will be if a robot has the same psychological impact on humans as another human. Would you rather a robot deliver the closing arguments in your murder trial or a human? Even if the words were the same, I imagine most people are far more likely to emotionally connect with a human. Even if we were to accept robot lawyers, the profession really boils down to politics and the weighing of the rights of different parties. If we ever get to the point we are comfortable with robots doing that, we will be at the point where ALL human professions are obsolete.

  52. Keep pushing the "living wage" by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    crap, and you'll find MORE automation in any business. What's so hard for people to figure out? A business is in business, to MAKE A PROFIT. If wages are forced up on people with little to no skills, the prices of the goods sold has to go up, in order to maintain a profitable business. If people no longer buy your products, or go to a competitor, then what good is a "living wage" going to do if the business closes its door? Low/no skilled workers are just that, they have NO SKILLS....but...but...but....I'm in my 30's/40's/50's and that is the only job I am qualified to do. That's my fault? Perhaps you need to look in the mirror, past your tattoos, piercings, forked tongue, purple hair and evaluate your life as to why, you are an adult, and have absolutely NO JOB skills. Life is hard, you make out of it what you put into it. If your youth was spent playing video games, smoking dope & partying all the time, then don't come crying to me about not having a job other than "burger flipper". The world needs ditch diggers to you know. The sooner the youth, and some adults figure out the big bad world doesn't OWE you a d*mn thing, the better off we all will be.

  53. As long as you know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that I will do whatever it takes to feed my family everything will be ok. The choice is that you either make sure there is space for me and mines in this Robot future of yours. Or you order the robots to exterminate us. Because that hunger pang in my stomach will make me do reckless violent things.

  54. If we do it right... by BreakBad · · Score: 1

    Then robots will do all the work, and we are on permanent vacation. We can abandon currency, and explore strange new worlds. You can be a bum (artist / sports writer) or put on a nifty uniform and tase aliens.

  55. Board of Directors by PPH · · Score: 1

    UNIX has had thhis capability for ages. It's called 'yes'. The CEO enters a proposal following the comand 'yes' and hits enter.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  56. Once thought impossible... by iq145 · · Score: 1

    Already, we don't need lawyers anymore http://www.newser.com/story/19... Better Call Saul-bot