Research Suggests That Saunas Help You Live Longer

jones_supa writes A study of Finnish men suggests that frequent sauna baths may help you live longer. Previous research has suggested that saunas might improve blood vessel function and exercise capacity, or even lower blood pressure in patients with hypertension. The new study links long, hot sauna baths with more benefits, including fewer deaths from heart attacks, strokes, various heart-related conditions and other causes. The study tracked 2315 Finnish men for nearly 20 years on average. Most participants used saunas at least once weekly. Those who used them four to seven times weekly received the greatest benefits. The study published in JAMA Internal Medicine wraps up by saying that further studies are warranted to establish the potential mechanism that links sauna bathing and the aforementioned cardiovascular benefits.

Comments

Easy life

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet if I had the time to visit the fucking spa 7 days a week I'd live a heck of a lot longer too.

Re:Easy life

[Jawnn]

Yes, studies show that the amount of time added to one's lifespan by exercising, is spent... exercising.

Re:Easy life

[__aaltlg1547]

Not a problem if you enjoy exercising. Or saunas.

Re:Easy life

[Anonymous Coward]

And when you are not exercising, you sleep better, you look better, you feel better, you are happier, and sometimes you experience high utility from your more powerful body.

But if you don't like exercising none of this matters. Those benefits will not be enough to motivate you to hit the gym. But that's ok. There is no law that says you must seek these benefits. Anyone who would impose these values on you is not worth your time.

Re:Easy life

[rycamor]

Not at all the case, actually. I did the math on this once, based on the most conservative estimate of years added to live for moderate-to-intense exercise.

For one thing, it turns out that the best exercise is of fairly short duration. You can get all the strength training you need in 1 or 2 hours a week. Add another hour a week for some moderate aerobics and, make a few other "life hacks" such as a stand-up desk, and you have every likelihood of adding at least 5 years to your life. And we're not talking about those painful last 5 years where you can't do anything, but 5 years of vitality to your productive mid-life. And a good deal more mobility and independence during your last 10 years.

And let's just say you exercised at 3 hrs/week for 50 years, starting at age 30. By the time you are 80, you have burned up a grand total of 1 year exercising. Those other 4 years are gravy.

How about that? the 80/20 principle at work.

Re:Easy life

[pepty]

And we're not talking about those painful last 5 years where you can't do anything, but 5 years of vitality to your productive mid-life.

Cite? I'm genuinely curious. The trick is finding research that is based on intervention, not just observation. For example: studies of runners. People who are still running at age 55+ have been intensively selected by their joints over the years, many people will have experienced knee/hip/ankle/back problems well before that age and quit. How do you establish the control group: people who could keep running but choose not to? Otherwise you are conflating the benefits of not being at risk for arthritis, tendinosis, vertabrae/disk issuses, torn meniscus, etc. with the benefits of exercise.

Re:Easy life

[rycamor]

There have been many, many studies on this matter over the past couple decades. A couple of my favorite meta-aggregators of these studies are Rogue Health and Fitness and Mark's Dailly Apple (yeah, he's a paleo advocate, but he's also a former top competitive runner, Ironman winner, and currently a sculpted buff dude in his 60s -- and his wife only a few years younger looks like a fitness model). Even more interesting, look into guys like Art Devany. He and his wife are in their mid-70s, yet fitter than most people in their 40s.

Basically, the health promises of the 70s-80s were found to be false along several axes. The most notorious being recommendations for the low-fat, high-carb diet, but also the whole jogging/aerobics craze that started in the late 70s has been found to be empirically a failure. This is what led to the renewed interest in weight-lifting and other strength training. Long-duration, plodding exercise really isn't ideal to longevity. Running 10 miles a day used to be thought the peak of fitness, but really it results in muscle atrophy, heart strain, joint problems, etc...

And the problem with focusing on athletes is generally that they overdo it. Athletes are people singularly focused on *winning* not on health and longevity. Athletes will gladly trade a decade of life for a short-term competitive edge. This is what Mark Sisson (Mark's Daily Apple above) found. His competitive running had him constantly sick and/or injured. He scaled his workout way back, stopped the long-distance running, and focused more on short-duration high-intensity exercise to stimulate the hormesis/recovery cycle, and specifically worked on gaining muscle mass.

There is sort of a golden mean to exercise, recovery, muscle mass, strength, etc... And generally it looks about like the "fitness model" ideal for women and the wrestler physique for men. Muscular but not freakish. Slim but not skinny, low body fat, but not veins showing everywhere... you get the idea.

Side note: I was flying back from SCALE 13x last week, and ended up sitting next to a cardiologist who has been doing research in these areas. His synopsis: we should all be lifting weights, and lifting *heavy*.

Re: Easy life

[rycamor]

Explain Jim fix?

Easily. Not all exercise is created equal. The jogging craze of the 70s/80s should be dumped into history's dustbin along with the low-fat diet. Also, too much exercise is almost as bad as too little. See my other responses in this thread for more.

Re:Easy life

[rycamor]

BTW back on topic, my point about hormesis/recovery also applies to saunas. Extreme heat puts a certain amount of stress on the body--especially the skin, which if done on moderation produces recovery benefits.

Re:Easy life

[rycamor]

Yes really. Anecdotal evidence is still evidence. Consult a dictionary. You asked for citations, which I did not have at hand, but directed you to a couple sites that have lots of them. Knock yourself out.

There is no such thing as conclusive proof in any of these areas. I tend to prefer empiricism and general pattern-recognition to theory-directed research because in the area of health it is so fraught with false positives, statistical failures, presuppositions and downright fraud due to industry influence. But if you browse through PubMed or PLOS for research in these areas, you will be hard-pressed to find negative implications for weightlifting or strength training. Positive implications abound.

Re: Easy life

[Immerman]

Easy. The standard deviation is substantially larger than the effect being measured. Doesn't mean the effect isn't real, or even that it can't be measured fairly accurately. Just that it will be completely lost in the noise of anecdotal evidence without a proper statistical analysis.

Re: Easy life

[rycamor]

Yeah, and my experience is that a) most doctors are physically lazy and have abominable fitness, and b) they are stuck on years or even decades-outdated studies of fitness and diet. And, c) they tend to favor medical and pharmaceutical intervention rather than lifestyle changes. This is a natural outcome of how their money is made and their social position in Western society. Which is why I don't have *blanket* trust in their fitness recommendations as a majority. This particular cardiologist was doing his own original research, which is why he came to these conclusions.

I come from a family of doctors and medical people, BTW. I have no axe to grind. I just try to observe as clearly as possible.

Re: Easy life

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Your comment should be: Oh, shut the fuck up, for Christ's sake. Get a life!

Re:Easy life

[rycamor]

Exactly what anonymous said. Anything can be overdone, and this tends to happen when people go on crazes. The jogging craze was last generation's example. Jogging can be an excellent part of an exercise regimen, but when you do it to the exclusion of all else, for 2 hours a day... you're courting disaster. Ditto for the current "crossfit" craze, where people with zero experience are jumping around in the gym, lifting (or even throwing!) heavy weights with zero ramp-up and zero instruction on good form, and once again you're courting disaster

Re:Easy life

[Darinbob]

These aren't spas. In Finland, people have them in their homes, sometimes at work, I even had one in a hotel room. Even for a commercial sauna the cost is very low.

Re:Easy life

[Darinbob]

A sauna is like exercising, in that it's hot, uncomfortable, and you sweat too much. But the advantage is that you get to sit down and do nothing.

Re:Easy life

[bingoUV]

Agreed with the initial 2.5 paragraphs of your post. But

if you want to strengthen a muscle, you have to exercise it, and in general the more intense the exercise, the greater the gains ............ in general exercise leads to better health. By logical inference, better health would obviously lead to the likelihood of living longer

Exercising a muscle strengthens it can be accepted. But I don't see any increasing function between muscle strength and health. And it is another leap, though a shorter one, between better health and living longer.

Very weak people are unlikely to be healthy - but after a certain threshold increasingly more muscle strength definitely doesn't lead to better and better health. This threshold isn't even hunk level strength. Note also that health is typically defined in a negative - absence of physical and mental disease. Not only does this correlation NEED a scientific study, there weren't any good ones that I could find last when I looked a few years ago.

And people very healthy while living drop dead suddenly, or after a very short "non-health". And non-healthy people live on 20 pills a day for 40 years. Both these effects run into families. This is another correlation that isn't as much as it is generally assumed.

Re:Easy life

[greg1104]

You know what else minimizes the risk of musculoskeletal problems caused by weight-training? Not doing it, and instead training with something that's considered a less hardcore workout.

Workout intensity has a large range of activity in it, each with a corresponding risk. I don't think it's appropriate to talk about the benefits of serious strength training without also noting the associated dangerous parts. If you're young enough that you only have been lifting for 12 years (hint: half as long as me), you're unlikely to know about how tricky this gets when you get older yet.

Re:Easy life

[Dripdry]

This last bit sounds interesting to me...
I've tried "lifting heavy" in many ways over the last 20 years. It's gotten me a messed up back, messed up shoulder, knee, and feet.

The onyl things that have helped me be in truly good shape are moderate amounts of yoga and rock climbing no more than 3x a week. Everything else has messed up my body royally.

Also, I can't seem to gain muscle mass, no matter what I try.

Maybe I'm just designed to die young :)

Relaxing = Live longer?

[furrygeek]

Here we go again - confusing correlation with a causal relationship. Maybe soaking in a hot tub five times a week helps people relax and that's why they live longer. I'm sure the oily fish they eat helps a lot too.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[__aaltlg1547]

A sauna isn't a hot tub. At least not in Finland. It's sweating in a hot room.

But controlling for socioeconomic level and prior indications of health and healthy lifestyle should be considered. Maybe the reason why some Finns get to the sauna more often is because they're healthy enough to get out, or have time enough to get out.

Or maybe sweating in a hot room improves circulation, promotes healing and shoves the balance of microorganisms that colonize your skin in a healthier direction.

Maybe it just kills one kind of mite that's been plaguing humanity since the dawn of time and nobody knows it's harmful.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[houstonbofh]

Or, it could be that people who do things perceived as healthy, do other things perceived as healthy...

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[wonkey_monkey]

The abstract of the research only goes as far as to say there are "links" and that "further studies" are warranted.

Even the Grauniad only goes so far as to say that it "suggests" that saunas help you live longer, as does the Slashdot summary.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the reason why some Finns get to the sauna more often is because they're healthy enough to get out, or have time enough to get out.

I don't think there's any correlation between a healthy lifestyle and frequent sauna sessions. At least not in Finland where it's clear that not even the most obese men are ashamed of their bodies when they go to the sauna - with a beer (or two) in hand.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[arth1]

A sauna isn't a hot tub. At least not in Finland. It's sweating in a hot room.

Where a real sauna is typically kept around 90C/194F (and some hotter), an American "sauna" is rarely above 60C/140F, and usually less. And they wear swim trunks and bikinis in it.
In a real sauna, you can't wear clothes, and particularly not synthetics, because it's too hot.

The funny thing is that a good hot sauna feels less hot. Your body goes into sauna mode, something it can never do at an American "sauna". You only feel the warmth in your lungs, or if you touch some new piece of furniture. I have often sat with teeth clattering and goose bumps in a sauna, because my ambient temperature sensors had turned off.

Half an hour in a real sauna is something I truly miss.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[PopeRatzo]

Of course. I would bet that you'd get the same results from people who spend an hour doing tai chi or meditating or just relaxing on the back porch with a good book.

But I can't remember, is the sauna the one where naked people whip each other with eucalyptus leaves or is that the steam bath? Or is that something from a nightmare?

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[rasjani]

Consider that Finland has something like 5 million people and 3 million saunas. Virtually almost *everyone* can go to sauna almost any time of the day with flick of a switch and waiting for 20-30 minutes for sauna to heat up..

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[arth1]

No, you don't start to cook. All your sweat and sebum glands go into high production, and your circulatory system works in cooling mode. But yes, one of the fun experiments is to bring a piece of raw meat in with you in the sauna, and set it aside. After a while, the meat is done, but you're not.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[Immerman]

Out of curiosity, are those saunas dry or steam? I would think a steam sauna at those temperatures would make it rather difficult for your body to cool itself adequately.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[Anonymous Coward]

If that were true, I've been cooked quite a couple of times :-)
BUT - a sauna needs to be VERY dry (less than 20% humidity). Normal humidity and 90C would indeed cook you.

BAH, humbug.

it's quite the contrary, we (finns) throw water to stove, which boils immediately forming steam (löyly) which fills the 'sauna room' (löylyhuoneen).
Humidity is well over 80% there in well warmed up sauna all the time and when that water is thrown (half a pint of more) it will quite rapidly go above 90% humidity.

If you have been in a place where someone calls it sauna and it's unlike that, it's not a proper finnish sauna, not even close.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[TeknoHog]

it's quite the contrary, we (finns) throw water to stove, which boils immediately forming steam (löyly) which fills the 'sauna room' (löylyhuoneen). Humidity is well over 80% there in well warmed up sauna all the time and when that water is thrown (half a pint of more) it will quite rapidly go above 90% humidity.

If you have been in a place where someone calls it sauna and it's unlike that, it's not a proper finnish sauna, not even close.

I'm not sure how exactly the (relative) humidity percentages translate to human perception, but from the experience as a Finn, the effect of humidity varies a lot. When you toss water on the stove, there's your familiar (for /. audiences) heat pipe effect: evaporation at the stove, condensation on your skin, meaning a rapid burst-mode transfer of heat into you. But this only lasts a couple of seconds, and you'll generally spend minutes relaxing in the moderate heat in between tosses.

The ideal temperature and humidity also depends heavily on the size and build of the sauna. Smaller ones are generally fine with lower air temperatures, presumably because the heat pipe effect will be better focused.

Of course, ideal humidities and temperatures really come down to preferences, and the watering frequency also provides a lot of control, there's really no need for extreme heat if that's not your thing. IMHO, the sauna is first and foremost about relaxation, even a kind of meditation, and presumably that's an important factor on health.

Re:Relaxing = Live longer?

[dinfinity]

Apparently it is sort of both.

There is a difference between relative and absolute humidity. The former is related to the the dew point.

If I understand it correctly, higher temperature (faster movement) of the water molecules raises the amount of molecules (in a volume of air) that need to be present to form water droplets. The amount of molecules in a certain volume of air is the absolute humidity, which can be very high in (Finnish) saunas. Due to the high temperature, however, no water droplets are formed in the air or on objects that are as hot as the air. This means that the relative humidity can be low at the same time. That also means that sweat can still evaporate relatively easily, which in turn allows the body to prevent overheating for a longer time.

Smoking Hot Blondes

[sycodon]

Especially when the sauna is filled with naked Scandinavian women.

Re:Smoking Hot Blondes

[Gaygirlie]

As a Finn I disagree with that notion. Only public saunas are gender-specific. Nearly everywhere else where people who know everyone go to sauna regardless of sex, and this includes adults and children, too.

Re:Smoking Hot Blondes

[KingOfBLASH]

"Finnish Sauna" is often used as a label for a particular type of Sauna at a good bath house. Hot, dry heat (and very hot at that -- often in excess of 100F), often with a roaring fire in the center. You'll also have other types of saunas (steam saunas, infared saunas, etc.), some of which are also associated with a country (Russian Sauna, Turkish Sauna, etc.). And if you pick the right country, the sauna will both be co ed, and naked. (Remember those shirts from the 90s?)

I recommend Spa Zuiver in Amsterdam. Everyone will be naked, you can go into naked jacuzzis together, and it's a wonderfully relaxing experience.

Of course, before you book your ticket with thoughts of a hedon's paradise, you should know a few things.

1. The sauna is not a pick up place. The chances of meeting a hot woman there and turning it into something are quite small.
2. For every hot woman who you will be happy to see naked, there will be four old women or men
3. Staring is not something to be done. However, if you happen to be sitting in a place where you see everything, and someone comes in, well that's OK.
4. You will be naked too. And your beauty will be judging you as well.
5. There will be a bar. And food service. While you can't drink in the pools, where else can you drink around a bunch of naked people?

But, if you'd never been, I'd highly recommend it. A day at the sauna makes you feel incredible. Really. And muscle soreness will just disappear. It's quite amazing (try a sauna after your work outs sometime)

Re:And what about hot showers and hot baths...

[houstonbofh]

Well, for one thing, a dry sauna is a thing... A dry shower or bath is not.

I prefer a shorter life without some fat guys junk

[JoeyRox]

waiving around in front of me. It's not the quantity of life but quality that matters.

Research Suggests

[AdamStarks]

That being happy and relaxed every now and then can prolong your life.

didn't the romans figure this out long ago?

[alen]

they had hot baths thousands of years ago

Re:didn't the romans figure this out long ago?

[itzly]

And how many are still alive ?

The wrong conclusion was drawn

[Anonymous Coward]

The wrong conclusion was drawn from this observational study. Saunas are very stressful. People who are weak can not tolerate many saunas and therefore avoid them. Healthy people don't have a problem with them and take more of them. Saunas didn't make them healthy, saunas just weeded out the unhealthy.

It's similar to the incorrect conclusion that 6 cups of coffee a day prevents diabetes. The truth is that caffeine makes people with blood sugar problems shaky so they avoid coffee. While people with no blood sugar problems can drink a lot of it because it makes them feel good. The coffee didn't prevent diabetes in them, it's just that the non-diabetics are are drawn to coffee and the diabetics avoid it, thus the results of an observational study being interpreted wrong (as most are).

All observational studies are suspect and should not be used as the basis of behavior modification.

Re:The wrong conclusion was drawn

[rasjani]

People who are weak can not tolerate many saunas and therefore avoid them. Healthy people don't have a problem with them and take more of them. Saunas didn't make them healthy, saunas just weeded out the unhealthy.

You obviously have not been into public sauna in Finland if you claim that only healthy people go there..

Re:The wrong conclusion was drawn

[pepty]

The wrong conclusion was drawn from this observational study. Saunas are very stressful. People who are weak can not tolerate many saunas and therefore avoid them. Healthy people don't have a problem with them and take more of them.

Meanwhile, in the actual article:

After adjustment for CVD risk factors ...

recipe for long life

[PopeRatzo]

Big surprise: People that take time out of their day for things they enjoy and self-care live longer. Who knew?

So, someone who has the time and financial resources to spend an hour in a sauna probably has a long list of factors that will contribute to longer life, none of which involve the life-giving effects of sitting in a hot box.

Isolated Causes

[JimSadler]

Who is to say that it is not a result from breathing ice cold air or constantly shoveling snow or chopping firewood that cause a heath effect and not the sauna at all?

I hate gender bias in studies

[wwphx]

2,000 men: no women. Guess what -- women are alive and have cardiovascular health also. And a lot of women die because most heart studies don't study women and their symptoms of heart attack are different.

Skewed Results

[Dorianny]

The problem with this type of studies is that is that you can never establish causality. Does X activity really extend ones lifespan on its own or is the type of person that engages in that activity simply into a healthier overall lifestyle. This particular study might even be skewed due to most doctors advising patients with chronic Cardiovascular Disease to avoid saunas. Cardiovascular Disease is the number one killer in the developed world and removing them from a population sample would tip average life expectancy higher.

Mod parent down

[Prune]

The study specifically controlled for risk factors for cardiovascular disease.

Re:Yes, but how do you pronounce "sauna"?

[TeknoHog]

S-OW-na? S-AW-na?

The first one is closer to the original Finnish pronunciation (Finnish spelling is basically IPA), but we don't mind if you use the second one. There's no confusion with other words, especially if you otherwise speak English.