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How a Kickstarter Project Can Massively Exceed Its Funding Goals and Still Fail

An anonymous reader writes: In November, 2013, a Kickstarter project for a software-defined camera trigger scored £290,386 (~$450,000) in funding after asking for a mere £50,000. After almost a year of delays, they've now announced the project is dead. Their CEO has published a lengthy article about how such a successful funding round can still turn into a failed product. In short: budgeting. To get their software into a workable state, they ended up spending 940% of the amount they'd originally allocated to software development. Their protoyping went over budget, too, and they had to spend a fair bit in legal fees to fend off a major camera manufacturer complaining about their product's name.

Still, they had more funding than they expected, and would have been able to deal with these costs. Unfortunately, the bill of materials for their final product clocked in way higher than they expected. They would have had to sell the device at about $350 each, when they were originally targeting a $99 price point. (And that figure assumes good sales — with a smaller production run, price per unit goes even higher.) The company is now going to refund the remaining money left over from its Kickstarter campaign — about 20% of the total. They're also open sourcing the software and sharing the PCB designs and schematics.

44 of 217 comments (clear)

  1. Morale of the Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't Kickstart something that seems like a good idea but has never been done before. If it's really a good idea then people have either tried and failed multiple times before, and/or people with more money that Kickstarter can provide will agree it's a good idea and invest.

    Crowd funding is good for known quantities from reliable sources. Printing out a book for that webcomic you like, where the pricing is a fixed and known quantity before hand, or funding a game from a known and reliable developer like Broken Age from Double Fine or Project Cars from Slightly Mad studios.

    1. Re: Morale of the Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, people should never ever try something never done before!!!

      Or, maybe⦠you know⦠crowfund it just because traditional investors are too scared to do new things; but add a disclaimer about it not being a traditional buy but comes with some risks. You know, just like it's being done on sites like Kickstarter!

    2. Re:Morale of the Story by HBI · · Score: 3, Informative

      I believe the morale of the story is positive. It looks to be in good spirits!

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    3. Re: Morale of the Story by geogob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, because no one ever tried to produce a watch that does more than tell the time before pebble. [/sarcasm]

      I do not fully agree with AC and I find he is definitely going too far. But he also speaks some truth. If it seems too good to be true, it often also is too good to be true. The problem is that for most people, the concept of risk in design is quite abstract. As an engineer, I can weight the risks not only because I know how to do that and have experience doing it, but also because I understand the technologies and problems linked with project management. So when I support a KS project, I have an idea what the risk level is and how good my investment is placed.

      Now, most people cannot do this for one reason or another and their decision to invest is solely based on enthusiasms, thrust and first impression. It may be deeply driven by technological ignorance. The person have a high risk of being disappointed because they have implicit expectations of success for a project which may actually have very little chance of succeeding. This is exacerbated by the fact that project closer to the leading edge (or even to the "bleeding edge"), are those who stir the most enthusiasms and interest, even though they are also the projects with the highest risk. This is a dangerous combination when money is in play, as the investors are not fully aware or informed of the risks.

      Investing only is safe and low-risk projects as the AC proposes is a solution, but it's not the best promote incubation of new ideas. But maybe better inform KS users of the risks maybe a good idea. Maybe a open risk assessment could be a solution (a bit like an open peer review of KS projects). The potential investors would then be informed of the potential risk associated with backing a project before they do so. Maybe a project with high risk hoping for 500k funding won't get 2 million USD funding anymore, but that maybe for the best as experience showed.

    4. Re:Morale of the Story by gnupun · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't Kickstart something that seems like a good idea but has never been done before.

      Terrible advice. The whole point of kickstarter is to invest in something new and risky. But right now the game is tilted towards fleecing backers. If the project succeeds, the creators become filthy rich but if it fails, the creators lose nothing whereas the backers get nothing for risking their micro-capital. It's a zero-loss game for creators and a zero-profit game for backers.

      This would change if the backers were paid with equity -- say greater of 1% of total sales or 5% of profit of product being backed. If some products fail, while others succeed, there is a good chance backers won't lose money.

    5. Re: Morale of the Story by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      What I find a bit surprising about this story is not that it turned out to be a kickstarter disappointment(big surprise there...); but that they managed to survive a legal challenge(expensive, unpredictable, bolt-from-the-blue), and software development going to hell(common enough that you can safely assume it'll probably happen; but still a potentially crippling blow to timelines and budgets); but then got blown to hell by the BoM somehow going from 'sell for $99' to 'can't sell for less than $350'.

      Apparently naively, I would have expected BoM to be markedly more predictable, and controllable, than either legal or software costs.

    6. Re:Morale of the Story by nedlohs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Paying with equity would be illegal, and thus not such a great idea. The Title III JOBS act provisions are not "live" yet, since the SEC hasn't managed to finalize the rules yet.

      But a cut of the profit is not equity anyway.

      Of course most successful kickstarters have more than 20 backers, so 5% of the profit is going to be rather tricky. If you mean 5% of the profit shared amongst all backers then I doubt that is going to have much impact on the "lose money" part. 100% of the funding for 5% of the profits? I'm sure there'd be no hollywood accounting there.

    7. Re: Morale of the Story by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

      Traditional investors don't call themselves "Venture Capital" for nothing. The venture and most of the time they lose money.

      This should be the approach taken for any risky venture on kickstarter as well.
      Assume that you might lose all your money. If you're only giving $10 then this isn't a big deal.
      Yes, traditional investors do take risks but kickstarter does have the potential to take even
      bigger risks as it can get 10k people to all give $10 to something that has a high probability of
      failing but each person's risk is minimal even if it does fail.

    8. Re: Morale of the Story by clickety6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Venture Capatalists expect to see a profit on their investment. On Kickstarter, you might get something slightly earlier at a reduced price. It's not an investment. It's more like group patronage.

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    9. Re: Morale of the Story by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or, maybeæ you knowæ crowfund it just because traditional investors are too scared to do new things

      Stop right there. People don't "invest" on kickstarter. They have no ownership interest in the business. The people who fund in kickstarter take all the risk, while having no possible upside beyond the products that they buy.

      I could make a political point about how kickstarter and its kin are a response to laws that limit risky investments by all except the wealthy and the effect of "the closure" in Venice in the 14th centuary.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    10. Re: Morale of the Story by svanstrom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I didn't refer to the paying people as investors!

      It's a buy with a (bigger) risk of not getting the thing you paid for.

      If you pay 100 USD each to 10 projects, but 1/10 fail to deliver; then your actual cost per delivered product is about 111 USD. You need to guesstimate costs like that before you "gamble" and buy stuff from sites like Kickstarter.

      --
      perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'
    11. Re:Morale of the Story by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In this case, they already had done it once before. This was their second kickstarter for the same basic project, with their previous one being successful and for general sale. They wanted to improve the design and take it from a 'hacker friendly' packaging to something 'consumer friendly'. So their track record was actually pretty good for a very similar device.

    12. Re:Morale of the Story by gnupun · · Score: 2

      Paying with equity would be illegal, and thus not such a great idea.

      Perhaps, but profit sharing is common. For example, 30% of mobile app sales go to Apple or Google. In a similar fashion, 1% sales or 5% profit of all future sales of the kickstarted product should go to the backers. Without their collective risk-taking and investment in the creator's idea, there is going to be no product to be sold.

      If you don't charge anything to the creators, even rich companies like Microsoft and Apple are going put up kickstarter pages for any product remotely risky. That is, making the backers pay (like in TFA case), for any risk involved.

      And FYI, Kickstarter is not a donation platform as evidenced by the dozens of angry posts about "we want full refund."

    13. Re: Morale of the Story by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      Maybe that means that their is room for a new kickstart.
      You invest and get x amount of the company per dollar.
      So you put in say $100 into a "Kickstarter" and you get .01% of the company.
      The venture fails and you get write it off on your taxes.
      It becomes Facebook and you get to retire.

      It is probably not possible because of laws and regulations which is too bad since it would be more like real venture capital.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    14. Re:Morale of the Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I kickstarted the original trigger trap, and they threw int he hardware for the mobile version for free. So of course, I was one of the first round of people notified about trigger trap ada heading to kickstarter.

      I did not back it, and there's a simple reason why. It may have looked nicer, but to get the same functionality as built into the original arduino based TT, which set me back something like $100, the thing was going to require me to shell out about $300, and be about 3-4x the size of the TT v1.0 righ to do something like trigger on interrupting a laser. To replicate the TT mobile experieince, it was going to be about $100 and be about twice the bulk of the smartphone rig.

      It was inherently a bad idea for, at the very least, the fact that it was more complicated, less compact, and more expensive. The fact that in all their promotional material, a group of people who had been very aware of potential pitfalls and had navigated a few of them seemed to turn into a group of people who couldn't see that they were designing a product that that was worse and the only things it really did better were have a better display, and to allow you to click modules together with a large cheap plastic bayonet mechanism. I find it odd they still don't get that.

    15. Re: Morale of the Story by geoskd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe that means that their is room for a new kickstart. You invest and get x amount of the company per dollar. So you put in say $100 into a "Kickstarter" and you get .01% of the company. The venture fails and you get write it off on your taxes. It becomes Facebook and you get to retire.

      Except that scheme runs afoul of a whole host of rules, and will get you in hot water with the SEC (possibly including jail time)

      That very concept has a name: "Initial Public Offering", and the rules surrounding it are complex enough that most companies hire a brokerage house to handle the details.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    16. Re: Morale of the Story by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 2

      I could make a political point about how kickstarter and its kin are a response to laws that limit risky investments by all except the wealthy and the effect of "the closure" in Venice in the 14th centuary.

      You could, but then you'd be ignoring history. The US "informed investor" legislation is to protect people from otherwise-legal fraud. Did you never hear about the movie scam? A production team would roll up in a small town, and offer to put the place on the map by shooting a move there. Everyone knows movies make millions. No brainer. Invest, invest, invest! And so the townsfolk would hand over many thousands of pounds to the production company, who would shoot a movie -- a crap one that no-one would ever pay money to see. Contract complete, the production crew would take their salaries and send the film off to distributors, who would refuse it. The townsfolk would never see any of their investment returned, and the production crew would be better off. Done right, they'd also get catering and accommodation on credit to the production company, but make sure that they emptied the account through executive salaries and equipment hire (from themselves) so that they could fold the company with massive debts.

      By sticking everything in limited liability companies, this type of scam remains on the legal side of the law. In fact, even major productions companies often start a new LLC for each production, and if they cancel the project, extras, cleaners etc go unpaid.

      So yes, before you assume everything your government does is designed to screw you over, take a look at your own history.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  2. Color me surprised by houghi · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you make the wrong asumtions with your budget, you will fail financially? Who would have thought this?

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  3. New News: Product Design is Hard! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you think it's going to be easy to put together a real techy product with software and circuits and PCBs and enclosures and EM certification and patent minefields and manufacturing and packaging and distributors and competition, you might want to examine why you think that.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:New News: Product Design is Hard! by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Actually it is quite easy.... if you know what you're doing.

      I'm reading his story and it reads like someone who wanted the earth and didn't know that it costs money. The fundamental product design sounds quite easy, but then looking at the funky case design... yep that looks like it would be fun to injection mold. Look through some of the sob stories, change in design because the LCD panel they used became obsolete. So someone designed something based around a part that they didn't check was lifecycled? Upgrade of a processor because they wanted to draw the interface? And the final product has a $300 BOM? It certainly doesn't look like it.

      I think the news is that product design is hard when you have no idea what you're doing.

  4. Many successful projects went bankrupt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and are still delivering value. The Suez canal is a prime example, but if you do some research, you will come up with others.

    The most important thing is that the achievements not be thrown away, and in software, there's a very nice way of doing it (no: it's not "some Intellectual Property Vulture feeds on the remnants"). So kudos for releasing the software and the hardware blueprints.

    So yay for the visionaries of triggertrap (those who worked hard at it and those who risked their money). May you survive the crash and be richer after that. May the explosion disperse seeds far and wide for new things to grow.

  5. Insurance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Considering the amount of successful projects kickstarter has, I think they should offer an insurance for x% of the price of good (optional), where you get a full refund if the item is not delivered within 3 - 6 months. They'd probably even end up making money of the insurance, and for some things (like a $700 bike I was considering) it would help a lot.

    1. Re:Insurance by lindseyp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The rewards offered on kickstarter are pitiful given the risk to the capital, and complete lack of upside if the product is successful.

      Just look at Oculus Rift. Sure the backers got "goodies" such as, ooh... prototype oculus rifts, but did they get any of the $2b Facebook bought the company for? No! If Kickstarter were a real investment platform backers should benefit from the success of the company just as easily as they can lose their money when it fails.

      --
      j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
    2. Re:Insurance by The+Rizz · · Score: 2

      [...]but did they get any of the $2b Facebook bought the company for? No! If Kickstarter were a real investment platform backers should benefit from the success of the company just as easily as they can lose their money when it fails.

      The problem with this is that it would require issuing stock - which requires knowledge of securities law for wherever you are (and possibly wherever Kickstarter is). Issuing stock on Kickstarter would possibly count as an IPO, which gets even more complicated.

      If this were to happen, the only decent, streamlined method would be for Kickstarter to have a staff to do it for you. Which could be good if you want to become a publicly traded corporation, but that adds more overhead in reporting and investor meetings/etc. as well.

    3. Re:Insurance by Boronx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not an investment platform, it's a begging platform with door prizes. Investors get ownership for their money and can demand accountability *during* the life of the project.

    4. Re:Insurance by St.Creed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, kickstarter is not allowed to give out equity under US law *yet*, but that may change soon. ANd if they want to stay relevant, they should, because the kickstarter model is starting to show cracks.

      A company called Symbid (symbid.nl) has been doing this for quite some time now because they're not in the US and under Dutch law they can already do this. You can invest small sums of money (20 euro and upwards) and in exchange you get equity. That sounds simpler than it is, but it seems to be working for them. They take over all the hassle of the process of issuing shares, the lawyer part of it etc. and make things cheap and easy enough to work for small sums.

      If I ever invest money, it will be through something similar. But not through kickstarter. Kickstarter is where you give donations. Investors go elsewhere.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    5. Re:Insurance by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      Kickstarter is an investment platform

      That is one thing that it absolutely is NOT. It's a donation platform, and some people asking for donations offer some incentives in exchange for your generosity. That's it. There is no investment. People who've given money are not vested in any way, except perhaps emotionally.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  6. In the end they were fair by aepervius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rather than spend all the money, 20% will be refunded. And a software source and PCB will be offered. It is a failed kickstarter, but not as bad as those which went home with the money breaking all promised delivery. Like moulyneux and godus for example.

    --
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    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  7. The real morale of the story by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    Morale: gloomy

    But!

    That doesn't mean you should never contribute to hardware kick starters. It's a good idea to carefully examine what they have done before to see if they can handle making the new thing...

    But!

    Sometimes, it's just plain good to kickstart something even if it looks unlikely they will reach the goal. I would argue that is what happened in this case, because they found out a LOT about making this thing a lot of people want, and are sharing what they found. Eventually the thing people really wanted may well get made. If I had contributed to this Kickstarter (I did not) I wouldn't be mad, just a bit sad it didn't go through.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The real morale of the story by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've signed up for a few hardware kickstarters and they've worked out fine. Maybe because I've had 30 years of product design and I can spot the naive ones a mile off. Generally, if it involves wireless interfaces or software that requires and operating system, avoid - the risks are significant.

      The reflowster toaster oven reflow soldering controller is a classic. Simple, useful and you know you could do it yourself if you weren't so lazy. You're paying them to be less lazy that you.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:The real morale of the story by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      I can't speak for TechyImmigrant; but it sounds like he is nervous about things that suggest software development(especially by people with no track record of it) substantially more involved than microcontroller firmware. Which is probably fair, given that even professional developers working for companies that make software have horror stories.

      If that's in fact his reasoning, there's probably a distinction between "Using a handy bluetooth module that acts like a serial port because most laptops and no cellphones have RS-232 ports", which is relatively safe, easy, and close to drop-in; and "Adding a nice, easy, drop-in wireless module so that our smartphone app(coming real soon now, we promise!) can communicate with the onboard web interface we've almost finished writing!", which has the potential to go nowhere, slowly.

    3. Re:The real morale of the story by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      If you never trust you never lose - but you never win either.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    4. Re:The real morale of the story by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Software (ie, apps) I think is somewhat easier than firmware, mostly because there are a lot fewer people with experience in firmware and low level development.

    5. Re:The real morale of the story by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 2

      I say this as someone who is currently developing some hardware and it's close to production ready. I'm also mulling a kickstarter campaign to get over the last bump.

      As people have said elsewhere, Kickstarter makes sense if you have a working prototype and can properly spec up the build costs.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    6. Re:The real morale of the story by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 2

      Sometimes, it's just plain good to kickstart something even if it looks unlikely they will reach the goal. I would argue that is what happened in this case, because they found out a LOT about making this thing a lot of people want, and are sharing what they found. Eventually the thing people really wanted may well get made. If I had contributed to this Kickstarter (I did not) I wouldn't be mad, just a bit sad it didn't go through.

      What they "found", you say, as though it's all over. As microfunding is illegal as investment in the US, Kickstarter projects are contracts of sale under US law. Under the Ts & Cs of the site, it is made clear that the project owners have a duty to deliver the promised rewards. With T-shirts and stickers, that's trivially easy -- with a product that was largely theoretical at the time of project launch, not so much.

      Triggertrap have set themselves up for potential class action from the Kickstarter backers -- from TFA:

      And so we only have one option left: Refund the remainder of the money we raised from Kickstarter to our Kickstarter backers, and double down on Triggertrap Mobile.

      So they're returning what's left of the Kickstarter pot, but no, that's not their only option -- it's not even a legal option. Once you get funded via a Kickstarter project, you have to honour the contract, and there are three ways that can pan out: 1) you deliver the product; 2) you refund 100% of the money; 3) the customer accepts your offer of an alternative product of equal or greater value. If you cannot honour the contract, there's only one remedy: insolvency.

      It is clear from the article that Triggertrap is a single company, and that Ada was a project carried out by Triggertrap -- as can be seen in this passage:

      But Triggertrap is a going concern; We have hundreds of thousands of customers around the world, and more than a million photographs are taken with Triggertrap’s Mobile products every month. If we commit to delivering Triggertrap Ada, there’s an extremely good chance that the company won’t survive. If that happens, we don’t just let down our Kickstarter backers; We also let down the six-figure number of customers we have around the world, the Triggertrap staff lose their jobs, and it all grinds to a halt. That simply cannot happen on my watch.

      If Triggertrap Ada had been set up as a separate LLC, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Triggertrap, they would be able to declare the subsidiary insolvent and the liability would be lost as the company folded, and debts would be written off. However, as long as Triggertrap continues to trade, the liabilities persist, and paying back 20% isn't going to cut it with the buyers.

      This could still kill Triggertrap...

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    7. Re:The real morale of the story by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      You shouldn't need to pick a module after the Kickstarter offering.

      Why not? Sure it's more expensive in serious bulk to use the module over the components. OTHO, the module has a 6 layer board and expensive 0102 (metric) component placement and expensive QFN placement not to mention a bit of 2.4GHz RF design which I know fairly well is beyond me.

      Excluding the module my board is a cheapie 2 layer, with nothing smaller than 0603 and SOIC, which is substantially cheaper at assembly houses than leadless packages. The fact that the module has the full 6 layers and internal decoupling caps means I can be a lot less careful with my low frequency (under 1KHz) but very low noise analog side, especially in terms of the ground plane than, would otherwise be the case.

      As a result, we're planning on going into full production (i.e. units for sale, though initially not vast quantities) using an RF module.

      Nonetheless it appears that you agree with me that the existence of wireless modules means that doing RF bits isn't really that hard.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  8. so did they or did they not have a running prototy by gl4ss · · Score: 2

    so did they or did they not have a running prototype? it seems they did but then they wanted to develop another more expensive product.

    the story reads like they started r&d after getting the money. _all_ r&d including case manufacturing options(yes there are other options than injection molding and 3d printing, which are all pretty much cheaper in their unit range) and all code for the micro and choosing another micro..

    I mean, how the fuck can you spend so much more on your r&d that you were supposed to already have been done?

    furthermore, they didn't design the product to the means they had available - for example, if you're a low run and injection molding tooling is too expensive(and you know that because you've done a cursory google search beforehand, right, right???) you can get of the shelf aluminium cases and such quite cheaply. sure it's 5-10 times more expensive per unit than injection moulding but still would be under 10% of the 99 bucks. lasercutting etc would all be options - they would just have had to compromise on the overall shape of the frigging device. like, fuck, http://www.alibaba.com/product... here's a box 3 dollars + cheap ass shipping. or a bunch of other similar boxes, extrusion they could have cut etc. then the cheap ass method of pcb for the ends( cheap cheap in low run too) to hold the display, buttons etc.

    fuck you could even source them as 3d printed pieces nowadays cheaper than the quoted 25$ per case due to the tooling.

    really, the whole story reads like they didn't do the development beforehand and promised stuff out of their asses. they wanted to change the product to a more expensive one and do the r&d again after the kickstarter while the kickstarter should only have had to pay for the production of what they already demonstrated.

    whats even worse? they're using this as a publiciy stunt for their smartphone apps! that is they have a revenue source, they're an existing company, they just blew a lot of customers money on paychecks to themselves and didn't deliver.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  9. Why is the hardware so complex/expensive? by gentryx · · Score: 2

    From what I read the dongle is merely the interface from the camera (USB) to the smartphone (USB). That should be trivial. (For my setup a USB OTG cable + adapter to mini USB is sufficient, there are tons of apps to control cameras).

    The article states that they had to use a beefier micro controller etc., but I wonder: why not do all the processing on the smart phone? These days our phones have so much processing power AND sensors, there should be no need to do any kind of non-trivial logic outside, especially when you're just trying to launch your first product.

    --
    Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
    1. Re:Why is the hardware so complex/expensive? by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 2

      I can't see why. You can get an ATMEL microcontroller at least as powerful (or more) than that one for $3 to $7 (depending on how capable you want it to be) in small quantities (qty 10). That's the SAM D21 CPUs ($3) and the SAM 3N or SAM 3S for $7.

      I have to imagine the enclosure and such is more expensive than they thought.

      The hardware seems pretty basic. I could make a prototype version from the CPU I just bought in a week. Yes, that includes sound triggering, opto triggering, etc.

      Their AUX port seems HORRIBLY designed. They say it is powered, but you also can input signals? How? It's an RCA crown. It either can provide voltage and ground and look for a low resistance (short) across it, or it can receive voltages on it. If you really want to run active circuitry off it and receive a signal, you should use a 1/8" stereo jack and output power and ground and receive a signal in return. Then if you want to just use a short (like dry contacts) to trigger, you can ignore the power output, but if you want active circuitry you can do that too. Using the ADC to trigger is weird, even the $3 chip above has an analog comparator that interrupts you when a signal rises or falls and it can reference to things other than the 1.1V bandgap.

      I just get the feeling they weren't nearly as good as they thought as what they are doing.

      --
      http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  10. They are at least ending off in a good way. by silentcoder · · Score: 2

    Refunding the remaining money and making the work they managed to get done available to the community is a decent way to act here. In a bankruptcy case your remaining assets would go to your creditors.
    In this case they are giving those assets back to the people who paid for them.

    That means the product could still come into existence or form the beginnings of other even better designs.

    All in all, that was actually quite decent of them.

    --
    Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  11. Re:Considering the actual product as a side projec by Boronx · · Score: 2

    "It's like they just spent the money without having a clue what they were doing."

    Why would they? There's nothing in how Kickstaters work to make responsible action likely, even for projects run with good intention. Kickstarter is just another means to separate fools from their money.

  12. Re:Kickstarter's Fundamental Problem by N1AK · · Score: 2

    The fundamental problem with Kickstarter is that there's no accountability for handling the money.

    Only if you completely, and entirely, miss what it's used for. If someone wants to set up a kickstarter equivalent where projects must be independently audited, project plans validated, and investors have some legally watertight form of ownership as well as power to intervene then they are welcome to set it up.

    Here's one of the projects highlighted on Kickstarter's frontpage: Help send The Kinsey Sicks to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival! They want ~$24,500 to go to and perform at a Festival. They aren't trying to sell a product, they are asking fans to help them. Some of the higher pledges include getting a CD or some such. Why on earth does a project like this need drowning in bureaucracy (the lack of which is what you claim is Kickstarter's weakness) because some other people naively think Kickstarter is a zero risk pre-order store?

  13. Idiots. by drolli · · Score: 2

    * Really: they had a "team happiness person"?
    * Featuritis: Why not start with a single sensor (if possible itegrated in the basic product), but try to develop everything once
    * Idiotic presumptions everywhere like asssuming that the non-availability of a specifi part for V1 is best cured by a completely revised V2. Or that the resolution of the display matters
    * Senseless Perfectionism: Hoho, the company they hired was "not able to use github". Yes, then take the source and put it there yourself (no need to delay, and no excuse for delivering late)
    * Lack of a preexisting SW concept (they really had to have a running prototype where a backer looked at the source to tell them that the MC could be put to low-power mode. (If you select a MC, the first thing you do should be to determing if the state transitions between the sleep modes support what you want to do *on the high level*)
    * Complete lack of technical understanding about MCs (they complained that thet had no "arduino expert"). MCs are great tools. You dont select the MCs by the SW you have, or by how conevnient and popular they are in the "maker" circles. You select them by the IOs they have, and by the power consumption. For most things you actually dont end up with anything close to an arnduino (e.g. for low power: look at the MSP430, for raw IO features: look at the M16C series)
    * A broken assumtion from the very start: That this needs to be modular. I am pretty convinced that (lets exclude the laser module) most of the sensors could have been integrated right away, for less money than the box you put them in.

    That being said, this should have been a 2-4 man project for 6 months, with focus on solving the technical problems first. A more or less working prototype electronics design (2man months for the most important sensors) should have been done before promising anything on Kickstarter.

  14. Re:Legal action: say no more by cayenne8 · · Score: 2
    I think the secret to the success of this and future Kickstarters, is to use someone in the video promo with an Australian accent.

    I believe that is what seals the deal on these things raising large sums of money!!

    :)

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........