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Snowden Reportedly In Talks To Return To US To Face Trial
HughPickens.com writes: The Globe and Mail reports that Edward Snowden's Russian lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, says the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor is working with American and German lawyers to return home. "I won't keep it secret that he wants to return back home. And we are doing everything possible now to solve this issue. There is a group of U.S. lawyers, there is also a group of German lawyers and I'm dealing with it on the Russian side." Kucherena added that Snowden is ready to return to the States, but on the condition that he is given a guarantee of a legal and impartial trial. The lawyer said Snowden had so far only received a guarantee from the U.S. Attorney General that he will not face the death penalty. Kucherena says Snowden is able to travel outside Russia since he has a three-year Russian residency permit, but "I suspect that as soon as he leaves Russia, he will be taken to the U.S. embassy."
Really bad idea. If he was going to do this he should have never bothered leaving in the first place.
They will hang you, literally or figuratively. Build a good life in Russia, and keep speaking out.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Lied under oath to Congress.
No penalty for that.
...and I wouldn't trust any guarantee I received if I were in Snowden's situation. His best case scenario would be to find himself a nice country(read: not Russia) without an extradition treaty and negotiate his way there. The only way is if the president officially pardons him or he is convicted in absentia and the president commutes his sentence, but even then, they'll find something to stick on him, just like they used the IRS to take down gangsters and the mafia.
All the scum responsible for the illegal spying go on trial at the same time.
Is he a traitor, or was his whistle blowing justified?
The real problem is that he could be both at the same time.
Same as in the military, if you disobey a direct order and that disobedience ends up saving lives, you can still be charged with disobeying a direct order.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Snowden isn't going to come to the USA willingly to face trial. This is all a ruse. His Russian handlers may just be messing with the US or it may be said to get some publicity. If Snowden really wanted to face justice, he wouldn't have done what he did. His handler is quite right that if Snowden leaves Russia he may end up extradited to the USA. Snowden is going to stay as a permanent "guest" of the USSR, cough cough, I mean Russian Republic as long as Putin is in charge and possibly longer. Wait for it - in the end Snowden or his handlers will say that he couldn't get the guarantees he needed about a fair trial, so he won't be coming. Even if he really wanted to leave and face US justice with no pre-conditions, I don't think Putin and his former KGB boys would let Snowden leave.
Except Snowden is no longer a person who should expect anything from either government. He's just a PR pawn at this point. If the US offers Russia something in return, like concessions in Ukraine, and someone thinks that they could get a big PR win out of it, then expect him to be escorted to a D.C prison post haste.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
If he think he'll get a fair trial or even humane treatment he's kidding himself. There is no such thing as a fair trial in this country, the deck is stacked in favor of the prosecution at every stage and we saw how they treated Manning. They've shown at every step of the way they are willing to ignore the law or make it up as they go while doing whatever they want. Even if Russia is becoming an authoritarian regime, it's more freedom and probably better treatment then he'll get if comes back.
The trial will be classified. He will be made an example of to prevent further leaks. He'd be nuts to return.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I don't see any upside in returning to America to be humiliated by the propaganda machine of the United States government with an automatic conviction. Talk about show trial. Snowden's motivations would be attacked from every angle and he would get no opportunity to tell his side or explain his motivations in court since a judge would immediately silence any testimony to that effect. A Snowden trial would set back the cause of Liberty.
I don't entirely disagree with you here. I do think he has untapped earning potential in Russia, though. If he can get a long-term work visa, there are any number of Russian (Kaspersky as an example) and overseas security consulting firms who would vanity hire him as a security auditor. He was making $200k per year as a contractor for the NSA and I expect he could fetch that or more from a company looking to raise their profile in the security industry. Heck, look at Kevin Mitnick. And that guy was a newb compared to Snowden. I expect $200k per year probably supports a more lavish lifestyle in Russia than it did when Snowden was living in Hawaii.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Snowden is a very intelligent individual.
There is no way on this EARTH he can possibly put any trust into the US Government to keep their word irregardless of what they may promise. Even if this isn't BS ( which I suspect it is ) you KNOW one of the conditions will be to provide the USG with the full cache of documents and / or the cessation of any further disclosures contained within said cache. The USG does not like to be embarrassed on the world stage. Not one bit.
Even IF by some magical amazing miracle the USG keeps their word ( Recall these people spy on their friends / allies and torture anyone to get what they want ) he couldn't return to the US because about half the country has consumed the wrong color Kool-Aid and believes he's a traitor that deserves to die. So even if the USG doesn't do it, they wouldn't have to. They'll let the radicals do it for them.
I can understand he may be homesick, but returning to the US now will certainly not be the same life he left behind. If he's LUCKY, he'll just sit in prison for the rest of his life.
Unless . . . . .
Unless he has something yet unrevealed on the NSA so incredibly damning, that the USG would do anything to prevent its disclosure. That scenario is the only possibility I can think of where these negotiations could potentially prevent any of the usual behavior we've come to expect of the USG as of late.
On some level, I feel like Snowden has to explore the option to return, if only to make clear his long-stated desire to do so, look for avenues to negotiate, and keep his supporters engaged.
I am very doubtful, however, that he will be treated fairly given that he committed the unpardonable crime of embarrassing the U.S. government. Obama is clearly petty and pig-headed enough to resist any cries for justice. His mind is made up about a lot of things, this just being one.
If I were him, though, I'd have to be very nervous anxious about being the guest of such a calculating thug during a time of such geopolitical aggression and uncertainty. I mean Vlad could just order him killed by unknown assailants and then blame the U.S. for the purposes of some minor PR points. He's that kind of guy.
Dear Edward Snowden. There has been one person telling the truth and that has been you. You have lost pretty much everything and gained nothing. I hope the day comes when you can walk the streets of our misguided country as a free man. Thank you.
If he were returning home (seriously) and not just messing around, all he has to do is come to some agreement on the charges and venue of the trial before arriving back in the US. That is all that is available to him, and the only guarantees that he get. There are plenty of high-power lawyers from prestigious law firms that would handle his case pro-bono because of the exposure, the courts are the courts and they are not going to make changes to them just for him..... the only issue is what the charges would be.... which would be very serious no matter what.
It's still a goddamn shame that none of the allegedly "neutral" countries had the balls to take him in, but what can you do? The US is scary.
I don't think the time is yet right for him to come home, the government isn't any friendlier now than when he left and the people are only slightly less apathetic. Without some powerful public figures to support him, he doesn't stand a chance. However with the situation deteriorating in Russia I imagine it would only be a time before he was assassinated or traded back to the US, so he can't well stay there. At least this will shut up the "Why did he run if he really believes in his cause?" crowd - just kidding they'll change the script and keep on going. Always better to make it a referendum on Snowden's character than to actually talk about the real issues.
Snowden may be using what leverage he has left. He has not yet disclosed all the information he obtained so the US government might cut a deal to avoid further disclosures.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
What part of "releasing classified documents" doesn't he understand? It's pretty obvious he violated US law. Fair and impartial won't change that outcome.
It did for Clapper, Alexander, Obama, Cheney, Holder, the CIA and a number of others who broke the Constitution, committed perjury before Congress, violated a number of human rights, tortured and killed people without any legal basis for it, and continued lying about it time after time.
All of those enemies of the American people and their Constitution and violators of their oath are foaming at their mouth in anticipation of casting the first stone on Snowden who got the priorities of who and what he was supposed to serve right: "classification" does not trump disclosure of crimes against the American People and Constitution.
It would be a travesty of justice (or rather it is a travesty of justice) that all those go free for their much more severe crimes while Snowden should be prosecuted for uncovering them.
As part of his re-patriation agreement, he should require cameras to be rolling throughout the entire trial with a live uncensored feed available to any organization that wants it (News organizations, EFF, ACLU, etc). If the government shuts down the cameras for any reason, then the agreement is null and void and the USA guarantees his return to Russia.
Then the american people can decide if the trial is "fair" -- if the government tries to redact all of the evidence due to national security reasons, then it's hard to see how the trial can be called "fair".
I realize that the USA will likely ignore the agreement once he's on american soil, but at least it demonstrates that the USA government can't be trusted to abide by its own agreements and it validates Snowden's reason for fleeing to Russia.
It was annouced today that former General David Patraeus (former head of the CIA, former commander of US forces in Afghanistan) has been allowed to plead guilty to one misdemeanor count of disclosing classified information after providing large amount of secret info to his mistress and biographer. Should Petraeus, who was motivated by vanity and sex, get a better deal than Snowden who was motivated by love of country and his own idealistic morality? I think not.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
He did not commit treason you fucking idiot. Actually read the fucking constitution which clearly defines what treason is.
Based on historic evidence, the US has absolutely zero intention of honouring a 'fair' and 'impartial' trial. Chelsea manning leaked a video of US soldiers murdering an ambulance of civillians and was gifted 35 years in prison for a largely victimless crime. KSM and about 100 other 'detainees' at guantanamo, although routinely and repeatedly insisted that they face American justice are in fact completely in limbo. the FBI has been caught spying on defense council and fabricating evidence and the US Congress, once they realized a program of torture and forced rendition would open these individuals to american courts and the possibility of acquittal immediately moved to isolate, restrict, and outlaw transport or trial of any detainee in an american court.
Civil forfeiture entirely usurps legal process in favour of a carte blanche land and property grab in the pursuit of the "war on drugs." Police are routinely found murdering people in suspicious or controversial situations only to never face trial. the financial collapse of 2008 involved some of the largest banks and securities companies committing fraud on a massive scale, and not a single arrest or trial has taken place. So please, Edward, I understand youre homesick for the first few years in a new place but you need to consider the very legitimate possibility that "american justice" is completely and utterly arbitrary and held to no reasonable, impartial international standard. it exists and functions by virtue of its own existence. Martyring yourself wont change anything, wont alter systems like foreign policy or defense at all. You wont face reason. You will be hanged, and then there will be cake and spin to continue insisting the system of american exceptionalism works.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Hold the trial in a neutral location outside the US like Switzerland. It can be based on US law, but under the control of an independent third party. Get agreement that any prison time is spent somewhere with a humane prison system, like Norway.
The only way home I can think of for Snowden is if someone like Rand Paul ends up as President (not ideal, but there are worse choices):
1) He seems to genuinely care about civil rights (is against the Patriot Act, use of drones, government surveillance etc), and this would be an opportunity to put his money where his mouth is
2) Only a Republican would snub President Obama in such a way
Fat chance of that happening, though.
Of course, a fair and impartial trial will also require him to accept a very high likeliness of losing the case, based on the current evidence against him.
Yup. When the law is immoral, only the immoral are innocent of breaking the law.
Can we infer from this that the Federal government doesn't consider "suicide by two bullets to the back of the head" capital punishment?
Because we all know that (or something similarly underhanded) is going to happen.
Don't do it, Ed.
Do not come back until we have a complete change of government here in the USA. You will not get a fair trial.
Our current government is broken, corrupt & vindictive. You hurt them, they want your blood.
Nothing has changed since you leaked those documents.
Be seeing you...
Whether you think Snowden is a hero or a traitor, I'd say the best political move Obama could make would be to pardon Snowden for any crimes he is accused of committing to date.
It would effectively silence Snowden as he could come home with the pardon in his pocket, assuming he keeps his mouth shut forever after. If Snowden continued leaks, then Snowden would be easy to turn into the bad guy
It would avoid a public trial (which would be awkward, assuming the government would even grant one).
It would avoid accusations of injustice (in case the trial was a secret one in Gitmo, or an unfortunate 'accident' occurred on his flight home).
Obama should do this after the 2016 election before he leaves office, as the hubbub will settle out and be forgotten by the 2018 midterm election. It would not satisfy Snowden's supporters (who think he should get a ticker tape parade) or his detractors (who think he should be imprisoned forever), but it would effectively halt the leaks and put the problem to bed with a minimum of fuss.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!