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Former MLB Pitcher Doxes Internet Trolls, Delivers Real-World Consequences
An anonymous reader writes: When Twitter trolls began posting obscene, sexually explicit comments about his teenage daughter, former MLB pitcher Curt Schilling responded by recording their comments and gathering personal information readily available to the public. He then doxxed two of them on his blog, resulting in one being suspended from his community college and the other being fired from his part-time job as a ticket seller for the New York Yankees. There were seven others in Curt's crosshairs, all college athletes, but although he hasn't publicly doxxed those individuals, he hints, "I found it rather funny at how quickly tone changed when I heard via email from a few athletes who'd been suspended by their coaches. Gone was the tough guy tweeter, replaced by the 'I'm so sorry' apology used by those only sorry because they got caught."
There are far too many sociopaths in the world, and the Internet seems to be a perfect playground for their misanthropy.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
It's using information to garner a public lynching response. Just because the information exists somewhere public doesn't mean it's not doxxing. My drivers license is public information. But if you put it next to a "guy flips old lady the bird" video on YouTube, you are inciting a public response. You are conveniently linking data to the emotional information that would incite someone to act.
But that's just like, uh, my opinion man. So feel free to disagree.
The guys who were just messing around with stuff like "Can't wait to date her!" he responded in kind, and the people who were total shits he took the gloves off with.
Better question is how dumb does a troll have to be to actually be linked to their real-life identity without someone actually cracking their account security?
It's using information to garner a public lynching response
which, in this particular case, was the best thing he could have done.
His only three alternatives were, in order of saneability:
- do nothing;
- go to a local police station and see the complaint archived in a desk;
- do what I probably have done and get a shotgun out to protect his little girl from threats of sexual assault and worse;
This guy is the best dad this girl could have right now.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
Doxing someone is _never_ the wise answer.
Posted by Anonymous Coward is truly fitting.
So shitposters are allowed to be as vile as is possible to be, and nobody is allowed to do anything to fight back or we're "stooping to their level."
How very convenient... for the shitposters.
Let me guess, you still believe the "don't feed the trolls" line? And I guess you also fell for "if you ignore them they'll stop teasing you" too? Most kids eventually discover that the only way to actually make that stop is to, completely out of the blue and unexpectedly, knock the teaser's front teeth out... and that's basically what Schilling did.
All too often we assume that dealing with trolls is like pissing in the wind but a few crushing responses now and then (being made "famous" and getting fired) is a start. The idiocy of these guys writing stuff like that to a dude who has a wide audience is nothing short of astounding. It's akin to threatening Obama and then being surprised when the Secret Service shows up.
At any rate, screw the scumbags, they deserve their comeuppance.
Yeah, 'cause it's so much better to let the trolls troll.
"The wiser head gives in" only means that the assholes get their way. Nothing else.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There's a reason why no culture on Earth uses the idiom "as smart as a troll."
Likewise "as pretty as an airport." -Douglas Adams.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Knocking their teeth out only works if you aren't outnumbered. Better take a gun to school...
There are far too many trolls who ill deserve the title. If you can be doxxed you're doing it very wrong. You have to create a whole new identity, use proxies located in non-friendly nations or TOR and never ever let your two identities share a single solitary detail.
Anyone smart enough to do that is smart enough to find better ways to employ their time than harrassing random strangers.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
A truly intelligent person ignores the taunts of idiots on the internet
Not always. Sometimes the best thing is TO confront someone. My first year of high school I was bullied. Right up until the day I laid him flat with a bloody nose. After that there were 0 taunts. He thought I was easy pickings coming 'from a christian school'. That just means we hide what we do from the teacher better than you.
The internet is forever. It is good to end it sooner than before you get to 'comfortable' behind your keyboard.
Actually, fucking with people you do know is a bad idea too,
Which was his EXACT point. He could have within a couple hours drive been on their doorstep with a baseball bat and a little fun time for himself in the driveway. Instead he just called them out. They were basically fucking with someone they thought they could safely bully. They found out otherwise. These jackasses are little more than cowards and bullies.
Yes they are just words but words carry power to many. Do not dismiss it. You are basically saying the bullies have the right to do so and everyone should just suck it from them. Well the bullied ALSO has rights. Some will be bullies themselves and know how to handle it like a proper alpha male.
is that sooner or later we're all witches.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The irresponsibility with which the modern media operates astounds me. The cheerleading tone of this article is unmissable. We are supposed to rise from our seats and applaud this sportsmensch who hunted down the skeeves speaking ill of his daughter. And hey, on one level, I do.
But here's a little perspective that NJ.com apparently can't be counted on to supply. Just because this case is pretty black and white doesn't mean they all will be. The next time, some jackass will create social networking profiles with breadcrumbs leading back to their real target, and with minimal effort will get a Curt Schilling to do the dirty work, and bear the legal liability, for them.
This is why we have police departments. I fully recognize that they've deteriorated in capability and trustworthiness, losing their role as guardians of the real public interest to politics and less esoteric concerns like meeting budgets and justifying headcounts, but that's a reason to fix what's broken about our system, not replace it with every-man-for-himself vigilantism.
The comments were horrific. Directed at her, because she was his daughter. Her only "crime" was being the daughter of a sports star. She had done nothing, but comments ranged from raping her, to penetrating her with a baseball bat.
I hope every one of these sick little fuckers loses their job, gets kicked out of school *and* has their name attached to the story. I want somebody to find these comments *every* time that one of these guys is googled, forever.
This shit won't stop until there are actual consequences. It won't ever stop completely, but it could certainly help.
Yes, I am uncomfortable with the use of "doxing" to mean de-anonymizing a libeler, when there are innocent victims of doxing.
Get used to it, cause doxing refers to what's done, not the motivation. For example, "murder" is someone kills someone else, be it by accident, pre-mediated, etc.
In addition, whe he did falls entirely within the current definition of doxing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing). IE:
Doxing is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting personally identifiable information about an individual. The methods employed to acquire this information include searching publicly available databases and social media websites (like Facebook), hacking, and social engineering.
The very first method is searching publicly available information!
"Innocent victims of doxing"... is that supposed to be like "but think of the children!" Doxing is what it is. Whether the result is good or bad is subjective and unrelated to the definition of doxing.
Here's a story about Curt Schilling calling out the guys who are talking about fisting and raping his underage daughter, and you're "uncomfortable" with how people use the word "doxing." Way to keep things in perspective.
Here, here's a definition for you:
search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Funny how the person who recommends violent responses to trouble hides their identity to prevent anyone from responding in kind to them.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
On Slashdot, maybe 'former MLB pitcher' is less noteworthy than 'creator of Kingdoms of Amalur'.
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
For example, "murder" is someone kills someone else, be it by accident, pre-mediated, etc.
Incorrect, and also a terrible example for the point you're trying to make. Murder is the malicious, unlawful killing of someone. It is certainly *not* appropriate to use "murder" to describe an accident. Manslaughter is killing someone with mitigating legal circumstances. Accidentally kiling someone is usually called involuntary manslaughter.
The next generation of "trolls" will only be more careful. Hope he feels proud of himself for stooping to their level.
Unfortunately (for the Internet trolls) being "more careful" isn't necessarily an option. What Curt Schilling actually demonstrated is that it's trivially easy to "out" or "dox" most people due to their blindly spewing every last bit of personal information about themselves all over the Internet.
If you were into the whole "reading comprehension" thing, you might have understood a list of three alternatives to the action he took.
Or you might have gone ahead and done the clueless Anonymous Coward thing anyhow, as some sort of Kaufman-esque meta-performance-art schtick.
The Salem Witch Trials were good thing. After all, there might have been some real witches there.
In this case you have people literally flying around on metaphorical brooms on Twitter.
If there had been actual witches eating children, are you saying they should have done nothing? Because that's what you are saying should be done in the case of people talking on Twitter about how they want to rape his daughter.
We aren't talking about witch-hunts here against people who have done nothing. We are talking about bringing consequences to people who in fact HAVE done something and expect nothing to happen as a result.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Come on, you realistically expect the police to handle every case like this?
Police departments that currently exist? Not in every case we'd be talking about, no. We evidently need something new, but that something new is more like a police department than mob justice.
This is no different from having a reasonable right to self defense to protect your life.
The claim that mob internet justice is "no different" than individual right to self-defense is so utterly ridiculous that it borders on not worth responding to. Here is a rather meaningful difference: when you're going to shoot someone, you can see them and know what you're aiming at. I guess you didn't think of that.
If you are being harassed online you should be able to do something about it
I completely concur. That's the point of what I'm saying. You totally should be able to do something about it, and that something should not require you to become a private investigator, politician, lawyer, judge, and security guard. Nor should it only be available to those with enough resources: time, money, knowledge, physical or intellectual capabilities, etcetera.
The earlier you take action, the more you cut off the really bad stuff.
This behavior pattern - acting before thinking it through - leads to what's called "flailing". Experts will tell you pretty universally that this is one of the worst things to do if you're being stalked and harassed on the internet.
What if what is broken is having inherent trust in the system to do everything for you?
Then you've engaged in a strawman. Nothing about what I've just said demands "having inherent trust in the system to do everything for you".
No it is NOT the best thing he could do. He is completely reliant on the information he gathered being factual and correct, which he has no way to verify. If someone had decided to leave a trail to an innocent person he could well be up for some serious legal trouble not to mention the pain he inflicted on them. vigilante responses are dangerous. His targets may have been correct this time, but I will almost bet everything I have that someone will now try and take advantage of what he has done to screw over someone innocent next time.
trolls are common pathetic cowards. they're middle school bullies in adult bodies if they aren't in fact actual middle school bullies. any effective defense against their lame efforts immediately chases them away like shining a light on a bunch of cockroaches
you're talking about another kind of douchebag: the stalker
but what gets the kind of person who becomes a celebrity stalker excited isn't avenging trolls
if curt schilling or his daughter attract an actual griefing stalker, it won't be because of this episode
and even then, the proper defense is the response he's already engaged in: a good offense. shut the shitbag down, hard, immediately. schilling sounds like he has his act together. his daughter will be protected and taken care of from the slime out there
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
His only three alternatives were, in order of saneability: ...
Given we're talking about Curt Schilling, he had a fourth option readily available - he could've slapped them silly using a bloody sock.
#DeleteChrome
You are correct. I used the wrong word. I believe a more appropriate word would have been "Homicide", which is simply to cause the death of another human being, whereas "murder" and "manslaughter" are types of homicide.
My point stands though, so thanks for correcting me, and a big FU to the AC's yelling STFU and contributing nothing of value to the topic.
The police only investigate serious crimes or imminent threats where either a lot of money or someone's life is on the line, and even then, they aren't fast, accurate, or trustworthy. The legal system does not have the time or the motivation or the resources to deal with what is the online equivalent of schoolyard antics.
That is not to say what these idiots were doing was trivial or harmless. But let's put it this way: suppose every time you had someone come up to you and say something completely disgusting and violent to your face, that your response was to do absolutely NOTHING except file a police report, do you really think that would stop such behavior? If someone punched you, are you just going to stand there and not defend yourself, instead electing to wait until you can go to the nearest station and file a report?
The bottom line is that you cannot reasonably expect to have a free internet while at the same time tell the government or law enforcement that users must be held accountable for their online actions. People suggesting that victims simply shrug off such behavior are either themselves psychopaths or have never themselves been the target of such abuse. And to then call out the victim for vigilantism is the height of delusion. Oh, but what if this opens up a slippery slope of unchecked vigilantism and real-world consequences for people who are the mistaken subject of retaliation?
Um,... I have some news for you: it's already lawless out there. It has always been. You can't simultaneously tell people to shrug off the trolls because "oh well that's the internet for you," yet cry foul when people fight back, saying "but what if innocent people lose their jobs?" That's hypocrisy. People are already suffering real-world consequences of the behaviors of trolls. You are just selectively inured to it because it happens a LOT more often and it's been going on for a lot longer than people successfully fighting back...and when they do fight back, it goes viral and makes the news because so many people are so desperate for a solution that it feels good to see the good guy winning for once.
That should tell you how completely nonexistent civility is in the online realm. People SHOULD be accountable for their actions online. But don't fucking tell me that it's the job of the government to do that for me, because we all know how PERFECTLY that works. What a joke. Accountability is not actually kicking someone in the balls for being a jackass. It's being able to carry out the promise of that consequence.
We should combat crime using methods that do not lend themselves so readily to abuse. A legal system exists for the purpose of punishing crime. Mob vigilantism has proven throughout history to be dangerously unjust.
Don't get caught up in your superhero fantasies and think that they can be applied to the real world.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
I don't hate ACs, or look down on then. There are legitimate reasons to post AC (including being too lazy to log in).
I look down on anonymous trolls.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Awesome is doxxing trolls?
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
How could you dox Curt Schilling? He's got better name recognition then most of the politicians in DC. Maybe you could release home address, but if you're a dad and the options are a) read tweets discussing the rape of your daughter, and b) deal with a bunch of dorks trying to vandalize your house you better not pick a.
The same principle applies to drawing trolls to himself. He's a grown man who has put up with Yankees fans and enraged Rhode island taxpayers. He can handle abuse. She's a teenager who happens to have a famous father and enough softball talent to play at the college level. She can probably handle it, but why should she have to?
Agree 100%. Cheer-leading for SJWs makes me sick. But, it makes sense. Many people have trouble seeing consequences past the next 30 seconds. Pretty scary, isn't it?
Is this ever expanding definition of "SJW" now including protective fathers pissed off that creeps are harassing their daughters?
Well I guess I'm an SJW then, because anyone hurts my little girl and I'll put a bullet in their head.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
The trolls threatened to rape his daughter.
He exposed their identity leading them to be kicked off their teams due to their actions.
I fail to see how he "stooped to their level." Did he threaten them with violence? Did he pledge to jam a baseball bat up their rear? Did he post their address and claim he was going there to beat them to a bloody pulp? No. He just mentioned who they were. That was it.
I'm sick of this "posting graphic statements saying you're going to rape someone and then claiming 'just joking' when you're called on it." I'm sick of people even trying to claim freedom of speech. We have freedom of speech, but not freedom of consequence. If you threaten someone with violence (and, yes, raping someone *IS* violence), don't expect to use "freedom of speech" as a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
Part of this is personal for me. Growing up, I was bullied by a group of kids. I'm male, so the bullying didn't involve rape threats, but it did involve following me around and taunting me. Every. Single. School Day. Multiple times a day. Doors to my classroom would be blocked so I'd have to push past them enduring more taunts. I began to become paranoid that anyone who was laughing was laughing at me. One push one way or another and I could have been another story of a teen taking his own life or going out in a blaze of bullets. Luckily, a friend of mine spoke with my bullies who backed off. Turns out they just thought they were "having a little fun".
And this is what galls me the most. The trolls' friends telling Curt that this was all just kids "having fun." Because, apparently, some kids are so psychopathic that they can't even begin to fathom what their "fun" does to people until it is either made blindingly obvious to them or until they suffer personal consequences.
As a father and as a victim of bullying, I applaud Curt for what he did. He didn't get violent. He didn't rant and rave. He just stood firm, acted like a protective father, and took down some nasty Internet trolls.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Sociopaths and Misanthropes are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
The foundation of their illness, the description - basically - no, not basically. At every definition, these are completely different.
LEARN 2 WORD.
I won't beleaguer the point, but you need to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary.
There are too many sociopaths. The internet seems to be a perfect playground where ignorant people can pretend to be informed, and hurt other people in the process.
I was a victim of identity theft a few years ago. Someone obtained my personal information and opened a card in my name. (It happened to land on my doorstep because the idiots paid for rush delivery BEFORE changing the address.) When I reported it to the police, they admitted that they weren't likely to put much effort into the case because they'd likely have to do a lot of work to track down the perpetrator only to hand the case off to another precinct. They also demonstrated some basic lack of understanding of all things Internet. (They got the online credit card order form with the IP address and date but called it a dead end. I showed them how to tracert the IP to find out the ISP and then told them the could get the ISP to give them the person signed into the account at that time. Not that they did the latter, mind you.)
In short, the police might not have the skills or the motivation to look into an online threat of rape by some Internet trolls. It's not like Curt Shilling got their home address, surprised them outside their houses, and beat them to a pulp. He just said who they really are. Everything that happened afterwards (losing jobs and spots on teams) was a result of their own actions catching up with them.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Since you refuse to clarify, and I, being relatively ignorant, must rely on the dictionary definitions, I don't understand the point you are trying to make:
sociopath: a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
misanthrope: a person who dislikes humankind and avoids human society.
From those definitions, it appears that it is possible to be a misanthrope and not be sociopathic, but that one of the defining characteristics of being a sociopath is some level of misanthropy (or, at least, misanthropic behaviour). Of course, rather than berating the original poster, perhaps you could attempt to bring clarity. On the other hand, perhaps you were trying to exemplify the misanthropy suggested in the original post, in which case I apologize for missing the joke.
Rhapsody in Numbers
Before you hit him with that dictionary, use it to look up "beleaguer" and "belabor," then reconsider your fifth sentence.
SJW seems to be code words for people who don't like trolls. The definition is just so vague. Anyone trying to upset the sexist status quo, or even hinting that someone somewhere might be sexist, is an SJW. It's like a knee jerk reaction to political correctness, except that this has nothing to do with political correctness except in the mind of trolls.
He could have contacted the bully's schools/employers directly, as he apparently did with the other 7 college athletes he mentioned. He could still have publicised the resulting consequences as a warning without exposing these assholes to the inevitable internet pile-on that is occurring now. He's obviously made a judgement that those 7 deserve a second chance and the 4 he outed do not. But while I have little sympathy for these dickheads, and I completely understand his motivation, I don't like this eye-for-an-eye response. There is no proportionality when something like this goes viral. Should these guys have their lives ruined over this? Should they be subjected to the same bullying magnified through the lens of a million internet users out for "justice"? I think not. If one of these idiots kills himself over the response Curt will have effectively sentenced him to death. We shouldn't be comfortable with that outcome as a society.
So are journalism and police investigation or public courts doxxing too? Basically if you're not allowed to break law anonymously, you're being doxxed, yes? Seems to me the discussion is ignoring basic facts: those trolls broke the law. If the law was enforced the way it is supposed to, they would likely end up in criminal court (I am not american, but I am assuming it is not legal to threaten someone with rape over there). Then suspension would have been the least of their worries. Some here said the "punishment" was disproportionate. As opposed to what? If he didn't do nothing or went to the police (same thing), then how proportionate would the punishment be then? Also what do you suppose would happen if they threaten his daughter in public. Would they be suspended then? Do they deserve some sort protection because they did it over the internet? Please. No, what he did was awful. But I don't see any of the other outcomes being better. Its just that any other course of action wouldn't rock the boat so much and that's what we've always hated.
It's using information to garner a public lynching response.
And it is the response we should attack. The followers/believers are the foot soldiers of dirty deeds.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Only as dumb as more than 99% of Facebook users.
Remember we used to tell kids not to give out their real name on the net? Then Facebook happened and what used to appear to be dumb is now the default.
It would be truly ironic for you to post what you've written above if your name really is Matthew Ventura.
Even more so if I was really the software dbaseIII that had become self aware over the years instead of someone taking the common form of it's name as a handle.
This is itself a fairly sociopathic post. If someone is ignorant, educate them. If they refuse to be educated, others will still learn from what you're saying. The clowns in this story weren't ignorant, they were just assholes.
Sadly this will never happen but if we introduce real penalties for internet trolling the internet might just grow up.
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Why can't a sociopath embrace human society and like people? That doesn't stop them doing nasty things.
I like my small furry creatures in Lemmings. I teach them how to help themselves. They're lovely and cute and so sweet when I tell them to commit suicide, and go, "Oh no!" just before making like fundamentalist muslim.
It was pretty self-explanatory to me the first time I came across the word (years ago). I could see that the Xs were to enforce pronunciation, but it relates to docs (as in documenation). And I think it was clear that they are verbing a noun (fairly common).
But while I have little sympathy for these dickheads, and I completely understand his motivation, I don't like this eye-for-an-eye response.
Easy to say when it isn't your daughter receiving death/rape threats. I don't know of a single parent who wouldn't do this (and more) if their children are threatened.
There is no proportionality when something like this goes viral.
Then the assholes shouldn't have said anything in the first place. We're not talking about a couple of screwed up kids thinking that they're funny. The people doing this were adults. There is no fucking excuse for this.
Should these guys have their lives ruined over this?
Actions have consequences. I don't know why people can't get this through their heads. The same freedom that allows you to post rape treats is the same freedom someone can use to hunt you down and expose you.
If someone came onto your lawn and started yelling about how they were going to rape your daughter, they're not going to get a little slap on the wrist. They'd get arrested, thrown in jail, and possibly be put on a sex offender list.
IF YOU WOULDN'T DO IT IN REAL LIFE, THEN DON'T FUCKING DO IT ON THE INTERNET.
Should they be subjected to the same bullying magnified through the lens of a million internet users out for "justice"? I think not.
Tough. Shit. They should have thought about that before publicly posting rape threats.
If one of these idiots kills himself over the response Curt will have effectively sentenced him to death. We shouldn't be comfortable with that outcome as a society.
No, he wouldn't. He's not responsible for what people do with the information. He's letting people know that there as some twisted fucks in their midst. That's a public service. I'm pretty sure most parents don't want to be associated with (or have their kids associated with) someone who thinks it's funny to make brutal rape threats.
Actions have consequences. If you can't handle the consequences or potential consequences of your actions, THEN DON'T FUCKING DO THEM. The fact that these assholes/idiots didn't stop to think about all the ways this could come back and bite them on the ass is no excuse. We may be a society laws, but we are also a society of humans.
~X~
SJW used to be a great term. It was descriptive and just denigrating enough to show how SJW actions were far more offensive than the imagined-or-not offense of their target.
Then Gamergate happened and "SJW" got hijacked to the point where it's useless as a term, and says as much about the people using it as it does the people it's being applied to.