Slashdot Mirror
Former MLB Pitcher Doxes Internet Trolls, Delivers Real-World Consequences
An anonymous reader writes: When Twitter trolls began posting obscene, sexually explicit comments about his teenage daughter, former MLB pitcher Curt Schilling responded by recording their comments and gathering personal information readily available to the public. He then doxxed two of them on his blog, resulting in one being suspended from his community college and the other being fired from his part-time job as a ticket seller for the New York Yankees. There were seven others in Curt's crosshairs, all college athletes, but although he hasn't publicly doxxed those individuals, he hints, "I found it rather funny at how quickly tone changed when I heard via email from a few athletes who'd been suspended by their coaches. Gone was the tough guy tweeter, replaced by the 'I'm so sorry' apology used by those only sorry because they got caught."
There are far too many sociopaths in the world, and the Internet seems to be a perfect playground for their misanthropy.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Doxing isn't using public information. It's using private information. Otherwise a phone book would be doxing, so would house addresses.
Om, nomnomnom...
We should hire Curt to rid Slashdot of the GNAA, MyCleanPC, etc trolls.
Curt "Haha RI Taxpayers" Schilling
Have Dox, Will Travel
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
He didn't. Summary is sentationalistic.
away
The guys who were just messing around with stuff like "Can't wait to date her!" he responded in kind, and the people who were total shits he took the gloves off with.
Doxing someone is _never_ the wise answer.
Posted by Anonymous Coward is truly fitting.
So shitposters are allowed to be as vile as is possible to be, and nobody is allowed to do anything to fight back or we're "stooping to their level."
How very convenient... for the shitposters.
Let me guess, you still believe the "don't feed the trolls" line? And I guess you also fell for "if you ignore them they'll stop teasing you" too? Most kids eventually discover that the only way to actually make that stop is to, completely out of the blue and unexpectedly, knock the teaser's front teeth out... and that's basically what Schilling did.
All too often we assume that dealing with trolls is like pissing in the wind but a few crushing responses now and then (being made "famous" and getting fired) is a start. The idiocy of these guys writing stuff like that to a dude who has a wide audience is nothing short of astounding. It's akin to threatening Obama and then being surprised when the Secret Service shows up.
At any rate, screw the scumbags, they deserve their comeuppance.
Yeah, 'cause it's so much better to let the trolls troll.
"The wiser head gives in" only means that the assholes get their way. Nothing else.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Trolls are naturally cowards. That's why they hide in anonymity.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Knocking their teeth out only works if you aren't outnumbered. Better take a gun to school...
There are far too many trolls who ill deserve the title. If you can be doxxed you're doing it very wrong. You have to create a whole new identity, use proxies located in non-friendly nations or TOR and never ever let your two identities share a single solitary detail.
Anyone smart enough to do that is smart enough to find better ways to employ their time than harrassing random strangers.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
This guy just made himself the target of trolls everywhere. Boasting about this will prove to have been a very poor choice.
A truly intelligent person ignores the taunts of idiots on the internet
Not always. Sometimes the best thing is TO confront someone. My first year of high school I was bullied. Right up until the day I laid him flat with a bloody nose. After that there were 0 taunts. He thought I was easy pickings coming 'from a christian school'. That just means we hide what we do from the teacher better than you.
The internet is forever. It is good to end it sooner than before you get to 'comfortable' behind your keyboard.
Actually, fucking with people you do know is a bad idea too,
Which was his EXACT point. He could have within a couple hours drive been on their doorstep with a baseball bat and a little fun time for himself in the driveway. Instead he just called them out. They were basically fucking with someone they thought they could safely bully. They found out otherwise. These jackasses are little more than cowards and bullies.
Yes they are just words but words carry power to many. Do not dismiss it. You are basically saying the bullies have the right to do so and everyone should just suck it from them. Well the bullied ALSO has rights. Some will be bullies themselves and know how to handle it like a proper alpha male.
is that sooner or later we're all witches.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The irresponsibility with which the modern media operates astounds me. The cheerleading tone of this article is unmissable. We are supposed to rise from our seats and applaud this sportsmensch who hunted down the skeeves speaking ill of his daughter. And hey, on one level, I do.
But here's a little perspective that NJ.com apparently can't be counted on to supply. Just because this case is pretty black and white doesn't mean they all will be. The next time, some jackass will create social networking profiles with breadcrumbs leading back to their real target, and with minimal effort will get a Curt Schilling to do the dirty work, and bear the legal liability, for them.
This is why we have police departments. I fully recognize that they've deteriorated in capability and trustworthiness, losing their role as guardians of the real public interest to politics and less esoteric concerns like meeting budgets and justifying headcounts, but that's a reason to fix what's broken about our system, not replace it with every-man-for-himself vigilantism.
The comments were horrific. Directed at her, because she was his daughter. Her only "crime" was being the daughter of a sports star. She had done nothing, but comments ranged from raping her, to penetrating her with a baseball bat.
I hope every one of these sick little fuckers loses their job, gets kicked out of school *and* has their name attached to the story. I want somebody to find these comments *every* time that one of these guys is googled, forever.
This shit won't stop until there are actual consequences. It won't ever stop completely, but it could certainly help.
Revealing a trolls identity isn't asking for trouble.
It implicates them as a suspect for anything bad that may happen to you in the future.
Slashdot's very own Jim Lahey, everyone!!
Funny how the person who recommends violent responses to trouble hides their identity to prevent anyone from responding in kind to them.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
On Slashdot, maybe 'former MLB pitcher' is less noteworthy than 'creator of Kingdoms of Amalur'.
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
The next generation of "trolls" will only be more careful. Hope he feels proud of himself for stooping to their level.
Unfortunately (for the Internet trolls) being "more careful" isn't necessarily an option. What Curt Schilling actually demonstrated is that it's trivially easy to "out" or "dox" most people due to their blindly spewing every last bit of personal information about themselves all over the Internet.
Everything is relative. Given the ease of uncovering the douche bags and their seeming unsophistication there is little downside. This actually will serve as a really good example and wakeup call that can be shown to people that interactions on the Internet actually have real world consequences. I sound like an old fart for the first time saying that the current crop of kids definitely just do not get that yet.
The Salem Witch Trials were good thing. After all, there might have been some real witches there.
In this case you have people literally flying around on metaphorical brooms on Twitter.
If there had been actual witches eating children, are you saying they should have done nothing? Because that's what you are saying should be done in the case of people talking on Twitter about how they want to rape his daughter.
We aren't talking about witch-hunts here against people who have done nothing. We are talking about bringing consequences to people who in fact HAVE done something and expect nothing to happen as a result.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Come on, you realistically expect the police to handle every case like this?
Police departments that currently exist? Not in every case we'd be talking about, no. We evidently need something new, but that something new is more like a police department than mob justice.
This is no different from having a reasonable right to self defense to protect your life.
The claim that mob internet justice is "no different" than individual right to self-defense is so utterly ridiculous that it borders on not worth responding to. Here is a rather meaningful difference: when you're going to shoot someone, you can see them and know what you're aiming at. I guess you didn't think of that.
If you are being harassed online you should be able to do something about it
I completely concur. That's the point of what I'm saying. You totally should be able to do something about it, and that something should not require you to become a private investigator, politician, lawyer, judge, and security guard. Nor should it only be available to those with enough resources: time, money, knowledge, physical or intellectual capabilities, etcetera.
The earlier you take action, the more you cut off the really bad stuff.
This behavior pattern - acting before thinking it through - leads to what's called "flailing". Experts will tell you pretty universally that this is one of the worst things to do if you're being stalked and harassed on the internet.
What if what is broken is having inherent trust in the system to do everything for you?
Then you've engaged in a strawman. Nothing about what I've just said demands "having inherent trust in the system to do everything for you".
I don't understand this "AC" hatred here in ./
We hate ACs because AC is mostly used for trolling.
All you need to get a slashdot account is a throwaway email address.
If you have an account, then you become accountable: we can tell whether what you say today matches what you said yesterday. Absent that, we have every reason to believe that you are just some malicious asshole.
I know... I know... this is ./, you cannot expect people to think twice before posting
...and it's lucky I didn't expect it from you, or I might be upset now.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm not saying it is. It's just ironic that the man with confrontational words chooses the most evasive identity.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
The Salem witch trial methods would still have killed many innocents even if witches did exist
But all that we are seeing in THIS case is someone pointing out what people are saying to others. So the harm done is directly proportional ONLY to the persons own actions.
Someone moderately clever will post horrifically offensive content under someone else's name, then "catch" the designated offender and post their info and purported crimes to social media.
So since that might happen one in 500 million times of ACTUAL trolling - so we should do nothing at all about real trolls that we can actually combat. Even though it can be disproved...
The good of the many and all that. We should not back down from preventing common crime because of a hypothetical.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hah! Good one.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
(AC, you're doing it wrong)
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
By the way, is this you?
No, and get a load of that poor fucker's middle name. If my parents gave me a name like that, I'd set shit on fire, too.
No, more like that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So "alpha male" rates a "Civility really is just a facade". What rating do you give the trolls in this instance?
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Most kids eventually discover that the only way to actually make that stop is to, completely out of the blue and unexpectedly, knock the teaser's front teeth out... and that's basically what Schilling did.
To be fair, it really depends on the specific teaser and their motivations. The ones who do a half-assed job of it and are easily bored will usually move on if you ignore them. The ones who are more tenacious probably do need a kick in the teeth to get the message. Then there are the ones who are both tenacious and actively malicious, those are the ones that it's not a good idea to escalate with unless you're really prepared to follow through as far as it takes.
Revealing a trolls identity isn't asking for trouble. It implicates them as a suspect for anything bad that may happen to you in the future.
...but makes it more likely that something bad will happen to you. While you lay dying or nurse a permanent disability you can comfort yourself that you were able to give the police a list of your enemies.
The police only investigate serious crimes or imminent threats where either a lot of money or someone's life is on the line, and even then, they aren't fast, accurate, or trustworthy. The legal system does not have the time or the motivation or the resources to deal with what is the online equivalent of schoolyard antics.
That is not to say what these idiots were doing was trivial or harmless. But let's put it this way: suppose every time you had someone come up to you and say something completely disgusting and violent to your face, that your response was to do absolutely NOTHING except file a police report, do you really think that would stop such behavior? If someone punched you, are you just going to stand there and not defend yourself, instead electing to wait until you can go to the nearest station and file a report?
The bottom line is that you cannot reasonably expect to have a free internet while at the same time tell the government or law enforcement that users must be held accountable for their online actions. People suggesting that victims simply shrug off such behavior are either themselves psychopaths or have never themselves been the target of such abuse. And to then call out the victim for vigilantism is the height of delusion. Oh, but what if this opens up a slippery slope of unchecked vigilantism and real-world consequences for people who are the mistaken subject of retaliation?
Um,... I have some news for you: it's already lawless out there. It has always been. You can't simultaneously tell people to shrug off the trolls because "oh well that's the internet for you," yet cry foul when people fight back, saying "but what if innocent people lose their jobs?" That's hypocrisy. People are already suffering real-world consequences of the behaviors of trolls. You are just selectively inured to it because it happens a LOT more often and it's been going on for a lot longer than people successfully fighting back...and when they do fight back, it goes viral and makes the news because so many people are so desperate for a solution that it feels good to see the good guy winning for once.
That should tell you how completely nonexistent civility is in the online realm. People SHOULD be accountable for their actions online. But don't fucking tell me that it's the job of the government to do that for me, because we all know how PERFECTLY that works. What a joke. Accountability is not actually kicking someone in the balls for being a jackass. It's being able to carry out the promise of that consequence.
This is really bad stuff. It should not happen. I'm glad at least some of the creeps who wrote that stuff got doxxed and fired.
It's sad, but maybe Mr. Schilling could have shared his joy at his daughter going to college only with family and friends. That way he would not get the extremely harassing comments in response.
A couple of unrelated issues: why does Mr. Schilling pretend on his blog like because he is a Republican that all Democrats are vile? I have seen sooooo many disgusting attacks made by self-described "family values" Republicans against anyone they don't like or don't agree with. Just watch Fox News for five seconds to see examples of this. Not all Republicans are vile. But several prominent ones are. Second, anyone remember that Curt Schilling started a gaming company and got a $75 million loan from the state of Rhode Island? Rhode Island eventually sued Curt Schilling in 2012 after his company went bust.
I'll rest my case here, I think...
I wouldn't advocate violence as a first option. First, tell people in charge or people who can support you (friends, family, teachers, etc). Most times, this can help you deal with the bullies/trolls without resorting to violence. However, if those people who should be there to help you don't/won't, then violence can be considered. Even then, though, you can find yourself overpowered and/or outnumbered in which case you'll be beaten up AND bullied.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I don't hate ACs, or look down on then. There are legitimate reasons to post AC (including being too lazy to log in).
I look down on anonymous trolls.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
In order to qualify as "doxxing" you must distribute the discovered information. He did not distribute the information. He used it to contact people with authority over the individuals and pass on notice of their behavior. You might call that reporting, tattling, ratting-out or even snitching. But to call it "doxxing" is misleading and gives ethical cover to people who encourage harassment by distributing personally identifiable information.
The guy's a blogger. What's his motivation? What's his incentive?
I think he met those marks.
I agree with what he did.
What he did agrees with him.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
How could you dox Curt Schilling? He's got better name recognition then most of the politicians in DC. Maybe you could release home address, but if you're a dad and the options are a) read tweets discussing the rape of your daughter, and b) deal with a bunch of dorks trying to vandalize your house you better not pick a.
The same principle applies to drawing trolls to himself. He's a grown man who has put up with Yankees fans and enraged Rhode island taxpayers. He can handle abuse. She's a teenager who happens to have a famous father and enough softball talent to play at the college level. She can probably handle it, but why should she have to?
The trolls threatened to rape his daughter.
He exposed their identity leading them to be kicked off their teams due to their actions.
I fail to see how he "stooped to their level." Did he threaten them with violence? Did he pledge to jam a baseball bat up their rear? Did he post their address and claim he was going there to beat them to a bloody pulp? No. He just mentioned who they were. That was it.
I'm sick of this "posting graphic statements saying you're going to rape someone and then claiming 'just joking' when you're called on it." I'm sick of people even trying to claim freedom of speech. We have freedom of speech, but not freedom of consequence. If you threaten someone with violence (and, yes, raping someone *IS* violence), don't expect to use "freedom of speech" as a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
Part of this is personal for me. Growing up, I was bullied by a group of kids. I'm male, so the bullying didn't involve rape threats, but it did involve following me around and taunting me. Every. Single. School Day. Multiple times a day. Doors to my classroom would be blocked so I'd have to push past them enduring more taunts. I began to become paranoid that anyone who was laughing was laughing at me. One push one way or another and I could have been another story of a teen taking his own life or going out in a blaze of bullets. Luckily, a friend of mine spoke with my bullies who backed off. Turns out they just thought they were "having a little fun".
And this is what galls me the most. The trolls' friends telling Curt that this was all just kids "having fun." Because, apparently, some kids are so psychopathic that they can't even begin to fathom what their "fun" does to people until it is either made blindingly obvious to them or until they suffer personal consequences.
As a father and as a victim of bullying, I applaud Curt for what he did. He didn't get violent. He didn't rant and rave. He just stood firm, acted like a protective father, and took down some nasty Internet trolls.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
My personal rule is that I never say anything online if I wouldn't say it to a room filled with my wife, my boss, my family, and my friends. (Maybe my kids too, but they're young so there are some things that wouldn't be appropriate for them to hear just yet.) Granted, I would never think of threatening to rape someone's daughter - even as some kind of sick "joke" - no matter how anonymous I thought I was at the time. I guess trolling is just not in my nature. (Something for which I'll spend exactly zero seconds mourning.)
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
... so far, and find that this article is way more interesting and relevant than "the dress."
tyvm
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
He said he would have ignored it had the comments been directed at him. However, these people were threatening to rape his daughter. As a parent, I can tell you that nothing turns a father into an attack dog quicker than his kids being threatened. These people were hiding behind anonymity to threaten his daughter with violence. All he did was remove that anonymity. Surprisingly*, they trolls quickly apologized and claimed they were just having some harmless fun and didn't really mean anything by it.
Some people need to learn that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences of speech. Say what you want to say but don't think that threats of rape will mean your boss will never hear of it or your coach will be in the dark merely because your Twitter handle doesn't list your name and address.
* Not surprisingly at all.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Sociopaths and Misanthropes are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
The foundation of their illness, the description - basically - no, not basically. At every definition, these are completely different.
LEARN 2 WORD.
I won't beleaguer the point, but you need to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary.
There are too many sociopaths. The internet seems to be a perfect playground where ignorant people can pretend to be informed, and hurt other people in the process.
For the record, if I hurt your feelings, it is probably because you have some factually incorrect dependency or premise which you need to eliminate.
In other words, you should be hurt, so that in later posts you do not make the same mistake.
I was a victim of identity theft a few years ago. Someone obtained my personal information and opened a card in my name. (It happened to land on my doorstep because the idiots paid for rush delivery BEFORE changing the address.) When I reported it to the police, they admitted that they weren't likely to put much effort into the case because they'd likely have to do a lot of work to track down the perpetrator only to hand the case off to another precinct. They also demonstrated some basic lack of understanding of all things Internet. (They got the online credit card order form with the IP address and date but called it a dead end. I showed them how to tracert the IP to find out the ISP and then told them the could get the ISP to give them the person signed into the account at that time. Not that they did the latter, mind you.)
In short, the police might not have the skills or the motivation to look into an online threat of rape by some Internet trolls. It's not like Curt Shilling got their home address, surprised them outside their houses, and beat them to a pulp. He just said who they really are. Everything that happened afterwards (losing jobs and spots on teams) was a result of their own actions catching up with them.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Since you refuse to clarify, and I, being relatively ignorant, must rely on the dictionary definitions, I don't understand the point you are trying to make:
sociopath: a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
misanthrope: a person who dislikes humankind and avoids human society.
From those definitions, it appears that it is possible to be a misanthrope and not be sociopathic, but that one of the defining characteristics of being a sociopath is some level of misanthropy (or, at least, misanthropic behaviour). Of course, rather than berating the original poster, perhaps you could attempt to bring clarity. On the other hand, perhaps you were trying to exemplify the misanthropy suggested in the original post, in which case I apologize for missing the joke.
Rhapsody in Numbers
Curt Shilling is the megalomaniac who thought he could transition from jock to major gaming mogul? The guy who caused tax payers to lose about 75 million dollars? Nasty comments about his daughter are out of bounds. But Curt Shilling himself should be ostracized and ridiculed anywhere he goes.
Did Schilling do that with his employees that he ruined while running his copycat game company in the ground?
Did he apologize to Rhode Island for scamming them?
Before you hit him with that dictionary, use it to look up "beleaguer" and "belabor," then reconsider your fifth sentence.
A tooth for a tooth is bad dentistry.
So are journalism and police investigation or public courts doxxing too? Basically if you're not allowed to break law anonymously, you're being doxxed, yes? Seems to me the discussion is ignoring basic facts: those trolls broke the law. If the law was enforced the way it is supposed to, they would likely end up in criminal court (I am not american, but I am assuming it is not legal to threaten someone with rape over there). Then suspension would have been the least of their worries. Some here said the "punishment" was disproportionate. As opposed to what? If he didn't do nothing or went to the police (same thing), then how proportionate would the punishment be then? Also what do you suppose would happen if they threaten his daughter in public. Would they be suspended then? Do they deserve some sort protection because they did it over the internet? Please. No, what he did was awful. But I don't see any of the other outcomes being better. Its just that any other course of action wouldn't rock the boat so much and that's what we've always hated.
The problem with ACs is that you do not know if you are responding to the same people and a lot of them more or less just troll. But it is annoying to hell and back when some AC is too lazy to read the start of the thread and wants to rehash everythibf already discussed or you assume it is the same AC who has already taken a position in which the new AC has not.
They were already your enemy. You just didn't know who they were.
Only as dumb as more than 99% of Facebook users.
Remember we used to tell kids not to give out their real name on the net? Then Facebook happened and what used to appear to be dumb is now the default.
It would be truly ironic for you to post what you've written above if your name really is Matthew Ventura.
Even more so if I was really the software dbaseIII that had become self aware over the years instead of someone taking the common form of it's name as a handle.
Dox, Doxxed, doxxing.
Yet another made up word, where an existing word is already available, widely used, and only a few millimeters longer.
While I can appreciate that stories on slashdot have to keep up with the times, that doesn't mean Headlines should contain uncommon/unnecessarily stupid/undefined words. That just makes slashdot look more stupid than it (usually) already does.
They didn't like you, now they're riled up and more dangerous.
Different situations call for different responses. It sounds like he made the appropriate response for this situation, but suggesting that "not feeding the trolls" is never the appropriate response is simply misguided. Quick examples from my own life, which I'd imagine are similar to what most of us have dealt with at some time or another...
Are they in it for the fun? Then make it boring as hell. Works great for 90% of Internet trolls. When I dealt with some run-of-the-mill bullying at a new junior high I moved to, simply not giving them any satisfaction was enough to make the bullying dry up in short order. Easy.
Are they doing it to exert control? Then show them they don't have control. The one and only time I was ever hit by someone, it was because he was using force in an effort to intimidate me since it had worked with others in getting him his way. Simply standing up after the hit, looking him square in the eye, and asking, "Are you done now?" before going back to my business was enough to keep him from ever bothering me again, since he didn't have a clue how to deal with me. In fact, we became friends after that, and to the best of my knowledge, mine was the last case of him attempting to bully anyone.
Are they taking because they can? Remind them of the consequences. When I had some drunk neighbors who let their party with underage students turn into an hour-long competitive shouting match (that's not a euphemism for them arguing loudly...they were actually shouting at each other for an hour to see who could do it loudest), I politely asked them at 2:30 AM to take it inside. They refused (and said some other not-nice things, as you might imagine). A quick noise complaint (I didn't mention the underage aspect to the cops) dealt with the problem and ensured it never came up again, since it helped them to see just how close they had come to a set of costly citations they couldn't afford.
There are other types of trolls/bullies/jerks out there, and there are numerous additional responses that may be necessary for dealing with them. Among those is responding in kind, but it is by no means the "only way", as you make it out to be.
My personal rule is that I never say anything online if I wouldn't say it to a room filled with my wife, my boss, my family, and my friends.
Well, not everyone has that luxury. I have the nice thing about having an amazing partner, a few good friends who I really trust and no boss. Which is nice, because I can in principle voice my opinions to them. Not everyone has the luxury, and given I also have a professional reputation to maintain, I don't feel I have the luxury of putting forth all my opinions online with my real name attached.
There are certainly opinions I hold very strongly (it's insane IMO that drawn pictures count as child pornography, for instance, and Im pretty feircly against strict liability in that case as well) which could land me in all sorts of social crap with many people. I'm glad somewhere like slashdot exists where I can have proper, in-depth conversations about serious, important topics with people who have the online appearance of rational adults.
(I know people make jokes about the comments, Betteridges law and etc still aplies, but /. is one of the best comment places out there)
I think being able to say stuff in a forum (which are generally public) without picking up crap off the forum is important. It also takes into account the times I'm drunk, or, frankly when my brain isn't working and I say something outrageously stupid. The latter happens more often than I'd like, but is just words in the wind AFK. Here it is recorded in perpetuity.
So, in conclusion, even though I stand by my opinions, and would stand by them publicly if I had to, I still think it is important to be able to discuss things in public but anonymously.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
This is itself a fairly sociopathic post. If someone is ignorant, educate them. If they refuse to be educated, others will still learn from what you're saying. The clowns in this story weren't ignorant, they were just assholes.
Lol.. thanks for proving my point. You did not even bother reading what was posted and said stupid shit about just doing what was already said to be annoying.
What part about a conversation or thread is so dificult for you to understand? Slashdot has a discusion system not a tweet post where you just yell something and ignore the responses or whatever.
So your contribution to the problem of people being asshats on the internet is to tell OP he needs to be slapped?
[FUCK BETA]
Sadly this will never happen but if we introduce real penalties for internet trolling the internet might just grow up.
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
"The clowns in this story weren't ignorant, they were just assholes."
In my experience though, people are often both.
The USA is only 4X older than me...perspective
Sorry, how were you going to beseige, trouble or harass the point about needing to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary? I'd like to see how that works.
www.wavefront-av.com
Without being able to distinguish who holds what position means there is no debate, just shouting. But more importantly, it resolves or exposes possible issues like circular reasoning and so on.
Its not impossible to converse with ACs. Sometimes it adds depths of insight to a discussion. It just get annoying at times.
Also, you are no less identified when you create an account verses posting AC. Its trivial to get a junn or apam email address and create an acciunt qith as much or little information as you want to give. You can make it completely fictitious or out yourself completely. Your IP is logged with the comment either way and can be used by LEOs or the NSA just the same. What it does do though is make it more dificult to troll or shill some position though. But on the pluss side, it is also simple to chAnge browsing leveks for comments so you can easily see the downmodded comments. There are a lot of downmodded comments that are otherwise insightful, funny, informative, or just provide context that get downmodded vecause it threatens soneone's worldview or agenda. You would think that alone would be worth it to log in. You can still post anon when needed.
Oh, and sorry about thw downhill quality of my posts. Just has carpal tunnel done and usinf my other hand more is already causing it to goto sleep and shoot pains. Guesss it needs dons too
Only a misanthrope who's also somewhere within the BPD/NPD complex would have gotten so upset over that distinction.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
The trolls threatened to rape his daughter.
He exposed their identity leading them to be kicked off their teams due to their actions.
I fail to see how he "stooped to their level."
Probably a troll worried about getting a little of their own back. There are some boundaries that you do not cross, such as threatening violence - especially against a family member who isn't even involved. Dey dun crossed 'em. I'm glad they lost their jobs. Maybe they'll starve or end up homeless. That would be cool.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why can't a sociopath embrace human society and like people? That doesn't stop them doing nasty things.
I like my small furry creatures in Lemmings. I teach them how to help themselves. They're lovely and cute and so sweet when I tell them to commit suicide, and go, "Oh no!" just before making like fundamentalist muslim.
Never heard that term before....?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
As a fellow victim of bullying, though mine was far more pervasive and ongoing, I would tend to agree with you, except for the possibility of doxing the wrong people. There are enough double-plus evil trolls out there who can hack someone else's account and use it to do their trolling that there is too high of a chance of retaliating against the wrong people. In schools that have adopted no tolerance rules against bullying, the truly evil have started accusing the innocent of bullying them, thus using the system to do the bullying for them. This is why a more measured response, with LOTS of due diligence is called for. It may not be as immediately gratifying, but it is part of the foundation that makes society civilized. Yes, even though our current legal system is a mess.
In their defense, there's dozens of ways in which - a lot of people on Slashdot, but also judges, will argue - an ISP should deny any such request, as IP addresses do not point to a specific computer, never mind to a specific person - and they feel that the account holder should not be held responsible for any and all traffic that goes through their line.
Hey, it doesn't mean that everyone who is anonymous is a coward!
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
They made threats against her. Yes. That is a real crime. Threats are a crime. People seem to forget that, but it doesn't change the law.
I'm pretty sure that most jurisdictions limit it to credible threats being crimes. People forget that part, even more often.
You damn moron. There is nothing wrong with his post. He didn't imply sociopaths and misanthropes were the same, and it's foolish for you to assume that was his meaning.
Sociopaths often exhibit misanthropy.
Read up on things before you go around trying to correct people, dipshit.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
He wants to belieber him.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
True, but they didn't even want to make the effort. To them, the whole affair of tracking down who stole my identity and was using it to open a credit card in my name was a waste of time.
If they thought an identity thief with the proven capability to open credit cards in my name was a waste of time, they surely wouldn't do much beyond "fill out a report" for Curt Shilling's daughter.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
That is a danger, yes. If someone is attacking you online, you should be careful if you're going to retaliate in this manner. Still, in this case, the outed trolls admitted it was them and apologized (though it was more of a "sorry I got caught" then an actual apology).
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
I won't beleaguer the point
The common phrase that you're looking for is "belabor the point".
I guess "beleaguer" makes a modest amount of sense, but "belabor" is definitely a better fit here. Once you've finished beating others over the head with your dictionary, I recommend that you look up those two words and decide for yourself.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Ah shit - a misanthrope with a dictionary...
Lol.. you do not need to know someone's identity, you benifit from identifying the person you are talking to as the person you have been talking to.
Try holding a conversation with a random stranger walking down the street, pause it then pick it back up with another random stranger right where you left off. And as far as the logical fallacy goes, when it is spread across three different post how do you know the current poster is the one who made the previous posts and really using the fallacy? Well, you do not.
Like i said, its just annoying. That is a reason people don't like conversing with ACs. It may not bother you, but its annoying to others.
Um...you do know who he is, right? He's kind of more than 'a blogger'. Just because he has a blog does not mean he begins and ends at 'blogger'.
yes. obviously they should die for words they speak. you are a wise and just person.
yes. obviously they should die for words they speak. you are a wise and just person.
And you? Maybe not so much.
But people are going ot have to come to grips with the fact that we aren't quite as anonymous on the net as we thing we are, so the time approaches when people with dark souls that might think rape is funny will suffer the legal repercussions to making those threats.
We don't have to agree on everything, but we should all use proper manners and stick within the law. Bill and Ted said it best - "Be excellent to each other."
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
They were acting under the guise of anonymity, with no perceived repercussions for their actions.
Now they're been identified and face further public ridicule, potential criminal charges and civil lawsuits.
I don't know the guy's history at all and I don't care to.
My introduction to him is in his role as a blogger.
Being a blogger, I know what motivates and incentivises bloggers.
Our worst nightmare is to be ignored.
Our best days are when our stuff goes viral.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
He isn't a blogger. Just because he maintains a blog doesn't make him a blogger. He's a former major league pitcher, an ESPN sports analyst and a former video game company CEO. He doesn't remotely need a blog to be noticed. He's on freaking national television all the time.
He isn't a blogger.
From TFS:
He then doxxed two of them on his blog ...
Emphasis mine.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
What part of what I wrote was unclear. He HAS a blog. That is not the same thing as being a BLOGGER. Tens of thousands of people have blogs. That isn't how Curt Schilling gets his attention.
This only works because we're now in the Age of Political Correctness. Once we move over to either a completely anonymous commenting situation or back to a "I don't care what you do in your free time as long as you don't do it here or on the clock" attitude with employers, doxxing won't work anymore.
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
Could you be more full of shit?
How the Sam Hill do you think I got exposed to this?
1.) Story shows up on /.
2.) TFS mentions a BLOG
4.) TFA is a BLOG.
5.) I read the BLOG.
He's a goddam blogger.
You try my patience.
Get off my lawn.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I've only ever seen it as an insult applied so it's completely relevant to the GP. Maybe for a week people applied the label to themselves, but most of the internet missed that week and just see the insult delivered by frustrated virgins who think the world owes them an easy lay.
You're the one who professed ignorance of the situation and a lack of interest in learning what the situation is and consequently made a statement that was full of shit, ie, he's a blogger that's what they do. No. He's a borderline hall of fame pitcher media celebrity gaming CEO. It's not my fault you want to shoot your mouth off without having a clue. So get off you're own lawn.
So by your logic, any CEO or famous actor who runs cannot be called a runner. Or one who plays golf cannot be called a golfer. Only if running or golfing *is* your claim to fame can you be called one of those terms.
Yep, makes sense to me!
who decides proper manners? a century ago it probably wasn't "proper manners" for a woman to you know... speak. or wear pants. but that's off-topic.
i'm a bit more liberal than the average american, but i'm of the firm belief that all speech, all expression no matter how offensive should be protected from and by the law. It scares me that if i speak the wrong words, i might ruin my life, that if i contribute to the wrong political philosophy or campaign, i could ruin my life. I could ruin my life with a single tweet.
And the thing ruining my life is the judgmental, vicious and gleeful masses.
I like to think that i try to be excellent to others... but that in some very small part entails being excellent to those that are not excellent to me.
who decides proper manners? a century ago it probably wasn't "proper manners" for a woman to you know... speak. or wear pants. but that's off-topic.
i'm a bit more liberal than the average american, but i'm of the firm belief that all speech, all expression no matter how offensive should be protected from and by the law. It scares me that if i speak the wrong words, i might ruin my life,
Free speech has limits. Your free speech does not include the right to make terroristic threats. If you threaten to kill someone, then I have absolutely no idea any place where that would not be considered a threat to harm a person. Good manners or not, I recall early on, my parents told me "Never never ever threaten to kill someone." Must have made an impression on me, because I gave my son the exact same advice.
Which is all to say, if you threaten harm to a person, and harm comes to that person, guess who's going be knocking on your door to chat with you? Better have a good alabi.
that if i contribute to the wrong political philosophy or campaign, i could ruin my life.
That is certainly not in the mix here, that's way overstating what I've said. Normal discourse is protected.free speech. We can call each other names all day.
I could ruin my life with a single tweet.
Yes you could. You could threaten violence upon someone, disclose company or state secrets, admit infidelity or write something ridiculously stupid about your employer. On there and other services, people have bragged about or shown items they have stolen or about mistreating others. Yes, a stupid single tweet could be a life altering experience. And people have altered their lives.
Which by the way, is why I always strongly advise against using Twitter. The format simply encourages ill thought out texting and responses.
And the thing ruining my life is the judgmental, vicious and gleeful masses.
Or your wife, or employer, or Government as the case may be. Or you.
Regardless, that isn't even involved in what I'm talking about. I'm talking about matters that would get you in legal trouble if you said it in someone's presence. I don't know if you are married or not, but if someone threatened to kill you or whoever you loved, you would just not care or do anything about it? Or not do anything about it?
I cannot imagine anyone not having astrong visceral response to someone threatening non-consensual violent forced sex upon their daughter, and if you can say you'd meet with that person - well good for you. Perhaps not so good for your loved ones if the person threateing the violence carries through on the threat.
I like to think that i try to be excellent to others... but that in some very small part entails being excellent to those that are not excellent to me.
You and I have quite a different idea of what entails "not being excellent" I think. I love a good discussion with different ideas, even where people might call each other silly or stupid or petty, or ofter such comments.
But threats are indicative of a person losing control. And people losing control sometimes carry through on those threats.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Ok.
It's real within the metaphor.
Just think of Inception mixed with the Matrix. :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
i think the exceptions for incitement to imminent violence and you know threatennig speech are enough restraints. I was speaking generally, in this particular circumstance, i'd say the "credible threat" test would need to be met. How credible are these threats to his daughter? are they local, are they classmates? are they just dicks being dicks? If i threaten to harm someone from 1000 miles away, my alibi is, i was 1000 miles away.
My examples were brendan eich, losing his job over 1000 dollars to a political campaign, and justine sacco losing her job, and probably 3-4 years of her life over 1 tweet. It wasn't the employer, it was the mob that forced their hand.
The problem with taking threats seriously on the internet, is that probably a fraction of a percent could possibly be credible. I really do mean I believe .005 of them are actually credible. The rest are just people venting/mini-trolling, everybody gets the impulse once or twice in their life to really just mess with someone that's taking something too seriously. You've gotta cross off the trolls, the people who are all just talk, the people that can't track you down, and adolescents... what are you left with?
I'd be more afraid of someone on the internet that threatened to steal my hypothetical daughter's identity than someone who threatened to rape her... one involves literally tracking her down, the other can be done from anywhere.
How credible are these threats to his daughter?
We don't know until we look into them, do we?
My examples were brendan eich, losing his job over 1000 dollars to a political campaign,
Part of that mob was the people that worked for him. We always have to remember that while we have free speech, everyone does. You cannot stop the reactions.
and justine sacco losing her job, and probably 3-4 years of her life over 1 tweet.
Well, in truth, there was more thsn one, and she set herself up as a real first class celf centered bitch with her B.O. and bad teeth tweets as well as the weird Aids/blacks one.
But as in all things she had the right to be just as insensitive, mean, and nasty as she wanted to be.
And everone else had the right to react in a way they saw fit.
As I've said before Twitter makes it easy to destroy your life. Avoid it like the plague. Especially if you're prone to temper tantrums or antisocial statements.
In reality, what is the compulsion the self orbiting self centered cruel aspects of person who someehow believes that it is appropriate to tell the entire world that some European in the plane has Body odor, but drugs to the rescue, or that she thinks all British people have bad teeth, or that final one, which would indicate she plans on getting laid in South Africa, but not by a black guy, because they apparently are the only ones who have AIDS?
Especially cute was a 2012 tweet:
“I had a sex dream about an autistic kid last night,”
Ummm, Ewww?
Now, should she have lost her job?
While there are arguments to be made for or against, but a senior director of corporate communications most very definitely should know not to tweet about having sex with autistic kids, or the other crap she tweeted about.
If I were running the show there she would be fired, not so much for the specific contents of the tweets, but for the completely unintelligent and unprofessional conduct she displayed. You simply do not put that shit out on the web. Not ever.
It wasn't the employer, it was the mob that forced their hand.
I think you confuse large numbers of people with being somehow wrong. IAC is an international company, and it doesn't do for senior officials complaining about likely customers, especially with such tired old memes. of smelly Europeans, Brits with bad teeth, and Black people and AIDS. It's terrible publicity, and can cost you money. This woman managed to insult British, Germans, South Africans and Black people, and the bizarre sex with an autistic kid dream tweet might have landed a man in jail, so she should maybe sit back, and realize that the only people who would give a rats ass about her self-obsession are people that might not find it so funny. In short, she could cost her company a lot of customers.
The problem with taking threats seriously on the internet, is that probably a fraction of a percent could possibly be credible.
I get it. Problem is you just aren't supposed to do that. Actions have consequences, and people need to exercise a modicum of self control. If you think that threatening physical harm on a person is just for the LulZ, you have to be prepared that someone is going to take that seriously, and apply the same response as if you threatened them in person.
There are so many ways to exercise disagreement. I've been called an asshat (you're thinking, no kidding?) a jerk, fuckwad, been told to go die in a fire and other crap which are not direct threats. No need to go much further, and people simply need to learn that actions have consequences, and that there ar eother ways to express themselves. We simply don't have to be lawbreakers to enjoy arguing with each other.
And for the tweeters, it's always a good thing to consider thinking "can this come back to bite me in the ass?" before hitting the send button.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"Part of that mob was the people that worked for him. We always have to remember that while we have free speech, everyone does. You cannot stop the reactions."
i am acutely aware that it is people exercising their own right to free speech that i am frightened of. I am not actually for regulation of the mob... i just wish the mob were more tempered. I have no solution, i'm just particularly frightened of the direction we seem to be going. I don't want to live in a society where the brendan eichs of the world can be forced out because they put money behind an unpopular opinion... that they are engaged in the legislative process the way we always say we want every good voter to. I don't want people to muzzle themselves on the internet from making jokes with friends or trying to be funny.
Sacco had like 500 followers max, it was basically people familiar with her and presumably familiar with her style of humor. Apparently the journalist who first propogated her tweet, was himself castigated and roasted a year later for making a tweet "making light" of bullying. He told a shitty joke, and they crucified him for it.
The speed of social media, combined with the radical shift to political correctness that we seem to have come across spells the death of humor and criticism. I don't want to live in that world, but i'm afraid it's the world we're in.
I agree that people shouldn't make that threats, like threats threats, against others on the internet. It's in poor taste. What i disagree with is taking as seriously as all that, and the appropriate response.
also, ... it got bad enough she ran away from the english-speaking world for a year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02...
on your last sentence...
apparently a while back dan savage got in trouble for using the word "tranny" while in the midst of a discussion of why he considered it no longer okay to use the word "tranny." which, apparently makes sense to someone somewhere.
The Left is eating its own, and no amount of PC can cover you these days if someone is on the prowl looking to be offended.
My point overall is, we live in the kind of environment where the public reaction is in some circumstances worse by an order of magnitude than what a judge would deem appropriate, and i really really wish it were different.
> I won't beleaguer the point, but you need to be slapped on the ass with a dictionary.
Beleaguer? Really? I think you meant 'belabour'.
How could you dox Curt Schilling?
One word. Daughter.
As for "name recognition" - I'm sure he'd love everything else about him to be known too.
Like where he keeps his keys or his credit card numbers, phone numbers, alarm codes...
Hey! Does name John Pike ring a bell?
It should. Bunch of internet vigilantes doxed him - winning him $38000 of taxpayer money in the process.
But first they caused him " to suffer from depression and anxiety" by sending him "17,000 angry or threatening emails, 10,000 text messages, and hundreds of letters".
How many dead cats can you fit inside a mailbox? How 'bout death threats?
She can probably handle it, but why should she have to?
I don't know.
I'm not her asshole dad who put the target on her back by acting all vigilante justice nor am I a crazyass who has it in for jocks acting all "I'ma gonna show em whose bows".
I'm sure all those internet tough guys really love and admire those people making millions playing with balls and then acting like judge-jury-executioner combo like laws don't apply to them.
What could possibly go wrong, right?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Welcome to Slashdot -- where a distinction between the definition of "misanthrope" and "sociopath" gets modded to +5 Insightful, and discussions about the actual article are modded as flamebait.