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Fight Over Arduino Name Pits Originators Against Contract Manufacturer

szczys writes "Arduino is a household name in hobby electronics. But now there are two companies calling themselves Arduino and as you've probably guessed this is going to play out in the courts. How can this be? One company started the Arduino movement and used the other company, a contract manufacturer, to actually make the hardware. This went on for a few years before the trademark was actually granted. Elliot Williams did some digging to help figure out how this all might shake out."

33 comments

  1. Dome Diggers! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    Elliot Williams did dome digging

    Dome digging is pretty crazy. One false move and you'll fall into the stadium.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:Dome Diggers! by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe the editors should do dome editing.

    2. Re:Dome Diggers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you guys are dome.

    3. Re:Dome Diggers! by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Cut them dome slack, it's not like they're paid to do this job.

    4. Re:Dome Diggers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do it for free? I did not know that, I thought it was a real job.

    5. Re:Dome Diggers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, according to my mother, doing "computer work" isn't a real job.

  2. Legalities aside by Dracos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's pretty clear from anyone in the community that Arduino(TM) should belong to Arduino LLC. Massimo Banzi is the one person most associated with the name, arduino.cc is where everyone gets the IDE from and where the brand guidelines are, and a simple whois lookup shows it was created 26 October 2005.

    But this is going to get very dirty and will drag out for a while.

    1. Re:Legalities aside by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It's pretty clear from anyone in the community that Arduino(TM) should belong to Arduino LLC.

      It should also be clear to anyone with half a brain that the first thing you do when starting a project, is nail down the IP. Registering a trademark is trivial (I own about a dozen). If you don't, you are building on a foundation of sand.

    2. Re:Legalities aside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      not every project has money and not every project knows its going to catch on at first

      buying a trademark for every idea gets expensive for some of us.

      apparently you've only ever had a dozen ideas

    3. Re:Legalities aside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only costs $275.

    4. Re:Legalities aside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea- I don't know, but I don't have $5k in lawyer fees and trademark registration fees to throw around. Even with a company making money it's a lot to spend. Then factor in you got to do it multiple times over. We're still getting our USA trademark and now I'm suppose to spend money to get it trademarked in Europe and elsewhere too?

    5. Re:Legalities aside by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Yea- I don't know, but I don't have $5k in lawyer fees and trademark registration fees to throw around.

      You don't need a lawyer to register a trademark. You just fill out a form. It doesn't cost anywhere near $5k.

    6. Re:Legalities aside by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      It's less than 5000$ to register a trademark in all countries?

    7. Re:Legalities aside by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

      According to one lawyer I was doing business with, all you have to do is put the "tm" whenever you use it. It's not perfect, but shows that you intend for it to be a trademark. Cost: $0.00

    8. Re:Legalities aside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I believe that is one of the significant distinctions between TM and ®.

    9. Re:Legalities aside by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well, you might not want to focus on it right away when you're trying to keep an open, community, cloners welcome face at the beginning. being zealous about trademarks, patents and stuff at such a phase is generally bad.

      thing is, once they realized it was a success and could pay for the bills, they've started being real bitches. which wouldn't be so bad if they produced nice boards with their license money, but their next gen boards just aren't very good. due is sucky.

      so there's dozens of boards now on the market that can't market themselves as arduinos yet everyone speaks of them as arduinos due to having arduino compatible bootloader. so then what they are gets buried in the products description.

      the rebranding of an existing 3d printer as an arduino printer topping it all off to a state where I don't even bother to go to official arduino(tm)(r)(c) site to even check if they got their heads out of their asses or not.

      besides, if you wanted to buy from arduino.cc... only the lilypads are in stock of the boards.

      really.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    10. Re:Legalities aside by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      It only costs $275.

      Is this also the same cost in Italy? Remember that Arduino originated in Italy.

      Additionally, what are the costs for an international trademark?

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  3. Arduino hardware = Dead on arrival by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would I pay $59 for an Arudino Yun when I can buy a nano clone + wifi for $7 total on eBay?

    1. Re:Arduino hardware = Dead on arrival by anagama · · Score: 2

      I've been studiously buying official boards because that means money went back to Arduino in some way (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ , scroll down a little to the official board part).

      However, if they're just going to be burning their time and money on litigation -- well, I'm not so keen on supporting that and I think I'll just start buying clones.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    2. Re:Arduino hardware = Dead on arrival by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because a Nano isn't the same thing as a Yun?

    3. Re:Arduino hardware = Dead on arrival by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Shield compatibility is limited with clones in general. For small numbers, that can save more money than the increase in cost. (Also the Yun is not the minimalistic clone you get on Ebay.) For larger numbers, getting the blank components is a lot cheaper.

      That said, personally, I usually prefer clones that add to the features. As long as you have some clue, using the original hardware is not that much of an advantage.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:Arduino hardware = Dead on arrival by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      So you're comparing a Arduino that has an AVR chip, an ARM chip, onboard ethernet and onboard wifi ... with a board thats little more than a break out for an AVR chip and nothing else?

      Perhaps if you knew anything about what you were buying, you might have a clue as to why the prices are so different. A Nano and a Yun are radically different devices.

      You've essentially just compared an Yugo to a freight train, to use a car analogy.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    5. Re:Arduino hardware = Dead on arrival by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My experience with the el cheapo nano clones has not been positive.

      I've had much better luck with uno clones though. Those were sainsmart, and were pretty good clones. The nanos were who knows, but dirt cheap.

  4. About 1K in the US now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and it keeps going up as the patent office needs more money to sit around all day watching porn.

  5. Money talks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So we should all make an effort to not buy from the fake arduino company. I will be outfitting an entire maker space this year and will be sure it benefits arduino.cc. Shame on the other group.

    1. Re: Money talks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For some boards like the nano, Arduino.cc sells them for around $40 but a clone is $1 + $2 shipping from ebay or Aliexpress. The price difference is absurd.

    2. Re: Money talks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      have fun buying 3d printers from them and all the shitty boards theyve made after original arduino. save your money and buy clones, chips and programmers

  6. Real IP Property Theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well for once this is an actual case of 'Intellectual Property Theft'. Usually the copyright industry and their employees in the FBI use this to refer to copyright infringement, but copying something doesn't deny a person the original thing, so its not THEFT.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/white_collar/ipr/ipr

    But here the contract manufacturer has registered the Trademark in an attempt to REMOVE it from its rightful owner, and that is THEFT of IP. It would remove the property from the real owner.

    He can go after them for 'Deception and Confusion" as its called, because they've registered it in bad faith, they can be stripped of the right. Don't expect the FBI to kick down the door and try to arrest them for years in prison though. The law is distorted here and the FBI political choices don't support it.

  7. Arduino has not boards in stock anyway by RobinH · · Score: 1

    If you look at the Buy Arduino Boards section of the Arduino site, all the boards are out of stock except for a couple of LilyPads. Also, the UNO Rev3 on that site lists for 20 euros. If you go to AliExpress you can find a clone for $6 with free shipping, including a USB cable, and if you want you can also get a clone for $3 (with free shipping) if you're willing to trade the FTDI USB-serial chip for a CH340G chip. From comments online the latter works fine, it just requires a different driver, and a lot of people are figuring we shouldn't be supporting FTDI either after what they did when they made their drivers bricks clones of their own chips. That's just one board. In my experience, the difference between prices of Arduino Mega boards and the clones are even worse.

    I get that we want to support the official organization and I own 2 or 3 official boards. However, the price difference is sometimes too much to ignore. I spend a good deal of my time writing Arduino-compatible software and releasing it for free under an open source license on the internet. Lots of people have downloaded it and use it, and I am happy to answer their questions and help them with their projects for free. I don't expect to get paid a dime for that. A lot of people are doing similar stuff and we're all contributing to one big Arduino ecosystem in our own way. The fact that there are clones is a *good* thing. It's only the fact that clone-makers are using the Arduino trademark that's wrong. Also, if they say Arduino-compatible, then I think that's OK. Some of you might be too young to remember the birth of the PC, but IBM made the PC and then the clone-makers came along and made a whole bunch of cheaper and better *IBM-compatible* PCs. Look where that lead us.

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    1. Re:Arduino has not boards in stock anyway by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Or you can just forget the bootloader and program your boards via the 6-pins ISP header and bypass the FTDI vs CH340 issues.

    2. Re:Arduino has not boards in stock anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...IBM made the PC and then the clone-makers came along and made a whole bunch of cheaper and better *IBM-compatible* PCs. Look where that lead us.

      It's based on an assumption that x86 architecture is a good thing.

  8. My limited experience with Arduino by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    was trying to compile the firmware for my 3D printer. It turned out that the latest firmware (at the time) would not compile in latest version of the Arduino IDE. I had to hunt for a load an older version of the Arduino IDE to get it to work.

    Open source is OK, but when you really have to get something done, a product that a bunch of people are paid to maintain and add to (Microsoft being the most notable exception) is usually going to work better. I always liked PIC microcontrollers and their IDE because it all just worked reliably and there was tons of support available. I have no idea how Arduino get so popular so fast when PIC stuff was already so cheap and easy to use.

  9. They just couldnt resist. by danknight48 · · Score: 1

    1 mouse scroll = A TALE OF TWO INTERNETS OF THINGS
    Article quality = 0%
    Resolution = alt+f4