Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Good Keyboard?
An anonymous reader writes: After five years of service, my keyboard is dying, and I'm starting to look for a new one. Since it's for my primary machine, and I spend a lot of hours there for both work and leisure, I'd like to invest in a high-quality replacement. What do you recommend? I've been using a Logitech G15, and it worked well enough — but not well enough for me to buy another. (I've also heard Logitech's build quality has been on the decline in recent years — has that been your experience, those of you who own their recent hardware?) My use cases include coding and gaming, so durability is a big plus.
I'd prefer something a bit less bulky than the G15, which has a raised area at the top for media controls and a tiny screen. I don't mind a thicker bottom bezel so much. I'm not a huge fan of ergonomic/split keyboards, but if you know a really excellent one, I wouldn't rule it out. Same with mechanical keyboards — love the action, but the noise is an issue. I don't need any particular bells and whistles, but don't mind them. As for a budget... as I said, it's for a heavy-use machine, so I don't mind investing in great hardware. (That said, if I'm spending $150+, it better automatically make sure all my semicolons are in the right place.) So, what keyboard has served you well?
I'd prefer something a bit less bulky than the G15, which has a raised area at the top for media controls and a tiny screen. I don't mind a thicker bottom bezel so much. I'm not a huge fan of ergonomic/split keyboards, but if you know a really excellent one, I wouldn't rule it out. Same with mechanical keyboards — love the action, but the noise is an issue. I don't need any particular bells and whistles, but don't mind them. As for a budget... as I said, it's for a heavy-use machine, so I don't mind investing in great hardware. (That said, if I'm spending $150+, it better automatically make sure all my semicolons are in the right place.) So, what keyboard has served you well?
You only want an ergo suggestion if it is awesome? As a software engineer, I've been using the Microsoft Narual 4000 for longer than I can remember. Before that, I had an earlier generation Microsoft ergo keyboard. Yeah, this thing is clunky, but honestly it is the most comfortable thing I've ever used for long term typing. Being a software engineer, ya'know that is an assload of typing!
I got the "Royal Kludge RC930-87" from Massdrop and love it. Not too loud for a mechanical keyboard and it is extremely responsive. It's also not taking up my whole desk with the numeric keypad, which I love. Very fine-grained control over LED backlighting as well. Since the OP is so detailed on these requirements, I'm sure she'll love the control over the LED backlighting.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
from www.pckeyboard.com - based on the IBM model M. You will not need a new keyboard again for a good many years. I prefer the buckling spring types but the silent ones have excellent travel as well.
Essentially, any Cherry keyboard has served well. Many manufacturers of keyboards do it beside their main thing. However, Cherry has keyboard manufacturing as their main thing. And by now, the resulting keyboards are very good and still affordable.
My best one so far is the Cherry CyMotion Master Linux keyboard. And the only 'linux'-thing is that is has a picture of Tux on the button that on traditional keyboards displays the Windows logo.
IBM Model M.
Slashdot should have a permanent banner saying "need new keyboard? IBM Model M".
I've been using a CODE Keyboard for several months now. I really like it.
It's a mechanical keyboard using Cherry MX Clear switches, so it has a good tactile response without being super clicky. Certain settings can be changed using a DIP switch on the bottom. The keyboard uses a standard, detachable micro USB cable: cables have always been a weak spot on my keyboards, so it's nice to know I can replace it if needed.
The keys are mounted on a steel plate (not as heavy as the Model M, though) so they keyboard feels very solid.
Logitech K750 (solar) is the best in my opinion. I WISH IT WAS NOT SOLAR THOUGH AND HAD A REAL WIRE INSTEAD.
Long story why. I used original IBM clickly keyboards (still have 2) also used cheap plastic clones of these and wore out keys on 2 such keyboards because they are from regular plastic material. Also tried Microsoft "Natural" - there's really nothing natural - they all suck and slow.
In the end, I came across that keyboard on display at FRY's and it felt amazing. Bought 4 since then. They are unfortunately, not the most reliable. I already had one die just after 3 years. IBM are still rock solid after > 30 years. However, I notice a drastic performance boost with these keyboards. It seems I can type more code in less time, and I don't mind paying for more of these.
Unfortunately previous model without the solar batteries even though looks similar, does not actually feel the same. It feels "slow" as normal keyboards. Yet the K750 feels like the code just appears itself. When I go to work somewhere, I take one with me as well.
We need more info. Will you be using your anus just as an output device or do you also need the input functionality? If the latter, make sure you also get a set of replaceable rubber caps and some lubrication.
I have one of those noisy DAS keyboards (with the blue switches). It is indeed noisy but absolutely brilliant for both typing and gaming. http://www.daskeyboard.com/
I'm not sure you have to spend a lot of money to get a great keyboard. I've been using an Adesso keyboards for about 5-6 years (Tru-Form Media Contoured Ergonomic Keyboard (PCK-208B)).
I haven't had to replace one of these, and they're truly ergonomic. I switched to an ergonomic keyboard after writing my dissertation gave me pain in my wrists using a standard keyboard. Getting used to an ergonomic keyboard makes a world of difference for wrist pain, and it's completely natural to switch back to a conventional keyboard. I'd also be careful in buying Microsoft ergonomic keyboards. These tend to separate the left- and right-hand keys, but do not slant the keys to match the natural angle of your hands when typing. The above Adesso keyboard (and keyboards from other manufacturers) have angled keys that more closely match the natural orientation of your hands when typing.
Another great input interface is the trackball. I use the Logitech M570 Wireless Trackball. I've found that keeping your mouse arm stationary goes a long way for wrist and arm pain too. These take a bit of getting used to, but they're well worth the commitment. The only drawback is that I have to clean my trackball once every couple of days.
This is not a troll. This is humor that makes a good point. Finding a good mechanical keyboard is a search away.
I'd recommend a mechanical keyboard. Mechanical keyboards often tend to be solidly built, have a reassuring clickety-clack (you can choose switch types with different characteristics btw) and just plain feel good to type on.
Your primary tasks when selecting one will be to choose the switch type (mx-brown, mx-blue etc), any additional features you need (shortcut keys, n-key rollover) and decide on the manufacturer itself.
I have a Ducky Shine 2 and it's an absolutely fantastic keyboard. I'd recommend something of a similar nature - solidly built and has all the features I need. For example, one of the features I specifically looked for were shortcuts to a calculator, and other programmable option keys. A lot of mechanical keyboards tend to be minimalist in nature, and fortunately, the Ducky was an exception.
The model I have has the ability to turn off the backlighting, which is great, because I don't need a christmas tree on my desk. I noticed that some of the newer Ducky models are starting to look a bit silly though, with all sort of logos and stuff which are undesirable. I can vouch for the model I have without reservation however, having used it for a couple of years.
You say you're not a great fan, but from my experience split keyboards really do wonders for your wrists. You don't have to bend your hands outwards for typing, just holding them naturally over the keyboard is perfect. I have a MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, simply because it's the cheapest split keyboard. You may want to buy a more expensive one, such as one of those that really detach into two separate parts, but the MS thing is already great.
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
Yes, heaven forbid we consider Slashdot a community and ask others in it for opinions, especially on something that many of us deal with every day as a part of both our jobs and leisure and could therefore be assumed to know something about. That would almost seem too human.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
If you are even considering an ergonomic keyboard, look at the Kinesis Advantage. It takes a fairly short time to get used to, but it's worth it. My only complaint is that you need to toggle the right side keys for the number pad, or buy one separately.
I don't do much gaming or any serious coding anymore, but I found it to be excellent for gaming. And the keys can be remapped and you can create macros. I think I paid an extra $10 to have keys with both Qwerty and Dvorak labels as you can toggle between them. I still haven't gotten around to learning Dvorak, but I keep telling myself that I will.
If you're the old-school type, it's hard to go better than Das Keyboard.
However, if you're willing to experiment, I'd recommend trying out the current Apple Keyboard. I was squarely in the Model M demografic and for my life wouldn't have guessed that I like the Apple Keyboard and it's flat keys, but ever since I got one I've been using them almost exclusively. My typing speed has increased and I've come to like the laid-back lightweight and minimalist approach these take.
I recommend you try an Apple/Slim Keyboard for a few days before you decide what to buy. Could be that you're suprised just like I was.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Be aware, though: while, indeed, quite hard to kill(a sharp object will do it; but silicone elastomers are quite untroubled by most chemicals that you'd be willing to let near your hands, and such keyboards are sealed enough that spills are largely irrelevant), the keyfeel of such keyboards is...different... The keys sort of 'squish' down and sideways when pressed, very much something that takes getting used to.
If, for some reason, your keyboard needs to be sprayed down with nasty solvents or disinfectants or something on a routine basis the silicone ones are much, much cheaper than the classy, purpose-built, stainless steel ones; but the keyfeel is pretty iffy.
Still the best. If you want an audible mechanical click, use blue. (Not suitable for shared office-space.) Not quite a Model-M, but closes approximation today. For silent, use one of the other colors as to taste. The one I am writing this on is a 12 years old Cherry G80-3000, daily use, gaming, but even the WASD keys still work fine. You can get quite a few other keyboards with Cherry MX switches.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
https://www.trulyergonomic.com...
Not only is it more ergonomic than most keyboards, it's mechanical and a huge improvement in typing.
Sure it takes a few hours to get used to, but like with languages, learning your second one is much easier than your first and does not reduce your ability to use the first.
It finally gets rid of the backward and stupid staggering of keys, that was needed 70 years ago, do you still live in that time? Or in the future?
It allows the mouse to stay much closer, which is great for gaming and the main reason I got it.
Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
I'm also on that boat. It truly is a good keyboard, especially for people that like short key movement.
So far my favorite keyboard has been the ~$20 Dell SK-8135 . Quiet keys, modern minimalist design around a full 104 keyboard layout, but has fairly ergonomic multimedia keys that are easy to find in the dark, and a USB hub which I find convenient for minimizing wire clutter.
My aunt bought me a nice Logitech G510 keyboard, but... I don't really care for it all that much. Uh... you can change the backlight color, and there's a little mono LCD panel that you can download apps to display extra things on. There are a bunch of programmable macro buttons on the side, but I don't find them convenient to use in any of my games compared to keeping my fingers near the WASD home row with the default keyboard layouts, and maybe using an autohotkey macro where necessary. It also has a built-in USB audio headset/mic jacks, which I guess is nice for eliminating system noise from your mic if you don't already have something better. The G510 looks damn impressive, but if I really needed its features, I'd have optioned for the G13 and a normal keyboard.
There have been nice suggestions for buckling spring (IBM Model M and Unicomp) and Cherry MX switch (Das Keyboard and dozens of others) mechanism keyboards, but personally I think Topre keyswitches are superior to both of them. Granted, they are among the most expensive, but the price is minimal when compared to rest of the rig, and they last a lifetime.
I have been using Happy Hacking Keyboard 2 Professional (I did a review of it a while ago: http://codeandlife.com/2013/10/12/hhkb-professional-2-keyboard-review/ ) for two years, but recently switched to Topre Realforce 88UB (US version is 87U). It's probably the best keyboard money can buy, the feel is superb and I even like the black-on-black color a lot. Details: http://codeandlife.com/2013/10/12/hhkb-professional-2-keyboard-review/
I think the switch type and layout are the primary factors, so I'd advise you to read a bit of geekhack forum and decide what you'd like to try. A word of warning: Mechanical keyboard can be addictive!
http://codeandlife.com
I'm a bit of a mechanical keyboard nerd, I collect keyboards with all sorts of form factors and switches. I know it can be quite challenging to find your first mech, and to make sense of all the terminology, so I thought I'd write down a short guide to help you through your selection process.
First of all, you need to decide on a form factor. Generally speaking mechanical keyboards come in 3 form factors: full size, tenkeyless (or 87%) and 60%.
Full size keyboards of course have all 104 keys as defined in the ANSI keyboard standard. You should always look for a standard key layout without a weird shaped enter key or other weirdly placed or shaped keys.
Tenkeyless keyboards are like full size keyboards but with the numpad removed. This makes them more compact, meaning they take up less deskspace and more importantly, you can place your mouse in a more ergonomical position closer to the alphanumerical section of your keyboard where your hands will be most of the time, so when you grab the mouse, you have to reach out less far. This is by far my favorite form factor, and unless you do a lot of data entry and really need your numpad, I can heartily recommend this form factor. Most mechanical keyboards that are available in full size, also have a tenkeyless variant by the way.
As the name implies, 60% keyboards are ultra compact. They lack navigation and function keys that are found on a full size keyboard, but the functionality of those keys can be accessed via a second layer and an Fn modifier key. Some examples of 60% keyboards are the Happy Hacking Keyboard, the Poker II and the Ducky Mini. Given the fact that you are coming from a full size keyboard, I am hesitant to steer you towards a 60% keyboard.
Now once you have decided on a form factor, it's time to think about what kind of keyboard switch you like to type on. There are 3 major types of switches: the most common by far are Cherry MX switches. Less common and more expensive are Topre switches. Finally you have the classic buckling spring switch, as found on the Model M.
I'll start with the buckling spring. They are the grand daddy of mechanical switches. They were originally found in the iconic IBM Model M keyboard of the late 80s and early 90s. IBM has stopped making them long ago, but a company called Unicomp has acquired the patents and tooling, and they now produce Unicomp branded Model M's that are virtually replicas of the original IBM keyboard. This type of keyboard really is a typist's dream. Pressing the keys gives very solid tactile feedback and a loud (and I mean LOUD) thunky click. It sounds like a machine gun if you are typing on it at speed. If you share an office with other people, I would not recommend them. They are also not very good for gaming. This doesn't mean that you can't game with them, I have and a lot of people do, but other switch types just work better for that purpose.
Cherry MX switches are by far the most common. They come in many variants: linear, tactile, clicky, stiff, soft, ... The color of the switch indicates the type. For a first timer, I would recommend that you only look at MX Blue and MX Brown switches.
I have a Cherry G-222 keyboard. For the past 12 years I have used it, and I am still using it
It is a mechanical keyboard but it doesn't have the 'click' sound. I love it for it's 'spring action', something that cheap keyboard don't have
Typing on cheap keyboard my hands hurt, both of them
Typing on my Cherry G-222, I can type for hours on end and my hands don't feel 'stiff' at all
Of course this is my own personal and humble opinion - and YMMV
Slashdot replies are less likely to be sponsored.
You mean the "Elite" line, which were absolutely atrocious. I just checked, and I can't believe they're still selling those. Someone apparently had the idea that they needed to scrunch the size down to fit in standard keyboard drawers or some nonsense. It was also terribly lightweight and flimsy. My experience at work was similar to yours. I asked for a Microsoft Natural keyboard and they got me one of those instead of the older model I was used to. I had a hard time saying "no, this one is terrible, and I can't use it," since I didn't want to look like a prima dona. After a while, it drove me nuts, and I just bought one myself.
Microsoft then screwed up their next natural keyboard called the Microsoft Natural Multimedia. It defaulted to using the specialized keyset MS had introduced (help, undo, redo, new, open, etc) rather than the standard function keys, which were on the same physical keys. Brilliant and forward thinking, right? Because soon everyone will be using those instead of the stodgy old F1-F12 keys. *bzzzt* Wrong! And of course, there was no way to change the default in software, so every time you turn it on or reset the computer, you had to remember to turn on your damned function keys. That keyboard sits on my audio workstation, because apparently I'm too cheap to replace an otherwise perfectly good keyboard that has just one irritating flaw.
I currently use the MS Natural 4000 model on my main workstation, and really love it. Hopefully they'll continue selling it for a long time to come. If not, I'll probably buy a dozen of them and hoard them for the rest of my life.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Seconded on this. I type a lot for work and I love my G710+. There's also a newer version, oddly called the G710 that replaces the Cherry MX Brown switches with the Blue, but I have not used it so I can't really judge.
I find the inverted decoration good; remember it's a gaming keyboard so the decoration is to highlight gaming keys (like W,A,S,D etc.). While you might not need it, it is nice. I also like the fact that it's lit; not because I ever really look at it, but seeing the keyboard lights at the bottom of my peripheral vision certainly does help when positioning my hands to type.
Having said all this good stuff though, it is a bit bulky. It has an extra row of gaming keys down the left hand side and a set of media keys on top. Plus, Logitech elected to make it tapered to a larger base. This makes it quite a large keyboard, but in my opinion it's totally worth it. For a mechanical it's also pretty quiet, though definitely not silent :)
Thank goodness you used bolded capslock at the end, I couldn't hear you over your keyboard.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
IBM KB-9910 Model M user here.Best keyboard ever made. Tactile feedback, fairly quite, doesn't mind the occasional splash of coffee.