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Finland To Fly "Open Skies" Surveillance Flight Over Russia
jones_supa writes Inspectors from Finland will conduct an observation flight on March 23-27 over the Russian territory within the framework of the Treaty on Open Skies. During the flight that will be conducted along the mutually agreed route, Russian specialists on board of the aircraft will ensure strict compliance with the agreed flight schedule and monitor the use of the equipment stipulated by the treaty. The flight will be conducted on a Swedish SAAB 340 observation aircraft that is not equipped with any weaponry. Both the plane and the equipment installed in it have been examined by the international inspection, including Russian specialists. The treaty on Open Skies is designed to enhance mutual understanding by allowing unarmed aerial surveillance flights over the territories of its 34 current member states.
Is very important part of treaty!
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Spying is so useful that sometimes nations agree to it.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Really? Surveillance flights along predetermined routes, with people from the country being surveilled on board the aircraft? Besides wasting fuel, what does this accomplish?
Meanwhile, Russia flies its planes (and sails its ships) wherever it dang well pleases, even if that means cutting a few international airspace/waters corners into territorial airspace/waters, only getting a friendly scrambling+escort while they fly about responding to no hails (radio / visual signals)
http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
https://www.google.com/search?...
I'm sure similar events take place the other way around, which makes this completely orchestrated and observed flight only worthy in mention because of how rarely those happen.
I don't know. Does Finland have a lot of spy satellites?
I looked it up and found this on Wikipedia: Finland's Aalto-1 Cusesat-satellite (3U) with solar panels is a funded by student nano-satellite project of Aalto University and Finnish Meteorological Institute [2]. When launched (plan was to 2013), it would be the first Finnish satellite. Launch has been procured for the summer 2015.
What is it specific that can be seen from aircraft, nut not satellite. I.......... Or something else I'm missing?
It is probably as much to do with excercising a right. Like I have a second right of way from my property which I never need to use, but I do use it at least once per year just to maintain that right.
That's the point of these flights. Any kind of long term installation would be visible, as would major troop movements. These flights are about showing both sides that neither side is making any significant changes to status quo around the border.
Finland has a very long history of living with Russia on its borders, and unlike our hysterical neighbours in the West and South, we actually know how to communicate with them to defuse conflicts. Comes with being a neutral European state with huge border with Soviet Union that isn't a part of NATO, as well as fighting USSR off twice during 1939-1944 period.
russia and europe will exhaust themselves
then china will "discover" an old map that "proves" all of siberia used to be chinese territory, like the bullshit about the filipino islands china is stealing, or the territory it is stealing from india, vietnam, etc... all chinese neighbors are victims of han imperialism
there are 10 chinese for every 1 russian. the chinese economy is soaring while russia is tanking. china needs resources badly. every single russian hinterland town has more chinese than russians already. russia's military simply won't keep up, but military won't even matter. china will take siberia the way the usa took texas from mexico: enough population shift, and it becomes a fait accompli
congratualtions putin: you degraded georgia and ukraine, your slavic brothers, and ignored the far east. russia is the most obvious territory for china to take, not the tiny bits in other directions. despite the historical hesitation from cold war era aggression between the two, siberia will become chinese in this century
all hail outer manchuria, qing glorious chinese state reclaimed from barbarian eluosi ren!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...
Outer Manchuria (known as Priamurye in Russian)[1] is an unofficial term for the territory formerly claimed by the Qing Empire and now belonging to Russia. Russia officially received this territory by way of the Treaty of Aigun in 1858 and the Treaty of Peking in 1860. The northern part of the area was also in dispute between 1643 and 1689. The area comprises the present-day Russian areas of Primorsky Krai, southern Khabarovsk Krai, the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and Amur Oblast. Another Chinese claim also adds the island of Sakhalin. Currently, the People's Republic of China has no claim to this territory.
According to the Treaty of Nerchinsk in 1689, the China–Russia border was the Stanovoy Mountains and the Argun River, which established Outer Manchuria as a part of Qing dynasty China. After losing the Opium War, a series of treaties were forced upon the Qing dynasty that gave away land and ports to the European powers; these were known as the Unequal Treaties. Starting with the Treaty of Aigun in 1858 and the Treaty of Peking in 1860, the Sino–Russian border was realigned in Russia's favor on the Amur and Ussuri rivers. As a result, China lost Outer Manchuria, as well as access to the Sea of Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
Russian newspapers began to publish speculation that between two and five million Chinese migrants actually resided in the Russian Far East, and predicted that half of the population of Russia would be Chinese by 2050.[29][36] Russians typically believe that Chinese come to Russia with the aim of permanent settlement, and even president Vladimir Putin was quoted as saying "If we do not take practical steps to advance the Far East soon, after a few decades, the Russian population will be speaking Chinese, Japanese, and Korean."[37]
Some Russians perceive hostile intent in the Chinese practise of using different names for local cities, such as Hishnwi for Vladivostok, and a widespread folk belief states that the Chinese migrants remember the exact locations of their ancestors' ginseng patches, and seek to reclaim them.[7] The identitarian concern against the Chinese influx is described as less prevalent in the east, where most of the Chinese shuttle trade is actually occurring, than in European Russia.[27]
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
as well as fighting USSR off twice during 1939-1944 period.
While Finland did much better than expected during the Winter War in 1939-40 (Finnish forces were hugely outnumbered), it clearly lost, surrendering more to the USSR than the USSR had demanded at the outset.
The second conflict, where Finland was allied with Germany (enemy of my enemy is my friend) was closer to a draw.
The Finns are actually responsible for the allied victory in WWII.
The fact that the huge soviet forces could not defeat tiny Finland gave Hitler confidence that the Soviet forces were rotten to the core and so could be easily defeated, despite having Britain undefeated on the western front. And Hitler was correct, although Stalin then stopped purging all his best officers and the Soviets recovered amazingly fast.
The Finns, of course, were very effective, motivated, agile fighters. And after the war we abandoned them because they fought against our ally the friendly sovients. Unlike Germany, Finland had to pay heavy reparations to the Soviets for many years after the war because they dared to prevent the Soviet attack.
(The Soviets only did well in Poland because Germany had already attacked from the east. And until the attack from both fronts the Poles were doing relatively well despite the lack of western support.)
No. I mean the actual preparation that would suggest a change in status quo.
Bases you're talking about are clearly aimed at securing the northern region. They would be quite bad at functioning as staging areas for attacking us for a number of reasons and nearby Finnish towns have been extremely happy to have those bases to the point of staging events to show soldiers that they are welcome to their new bases near border.
It's good business in the otherwise fairly quiet region.
Of course, hysterical people such as yourself don't see it that way.
Finland has a very long history of living with Russia on its borders, and unlike our hysterical neighbours in the West and South, we actually know how to communicate with them to defuse conflicts. Comes with being a neutral European state with huge border with Soviet Union that isn't a part of NATO, as well as fighting USSR off twice during 1939-1944 period.
Actually in the 1939-40 Winter War Finland briefly defended itself from a crippled Soviet Army that had its professional officer corp severely purged and replaced by men loyal to Stalin and devoid of military competence. It took the Soviets three months longer than planned to defeat Finland. Finland surrendered more territory to the USSR than the USSR originally demanded before the invasion. 11% of its land and 30% of its economy.
Finland then allied itself with Nazi Germany and participated in the Nazi invasion of the USSR, leading to the Continuation War of 1941-44. Thanks to the Nazi invasion Finland was able to retake the territory it had just surrendered. After fighting the Nazis for several years the Soviets then retook the previously surrendered territory from Finland.
In 1944 Finland was defeated again, was ordered to fight their Nazi allies to remove them from Finland, was ordered to clean vast minefields placed by the Germans -- i.e. remove defenses and make their frontier easily traversed by the Soviets once again, had to surrender additional territory to the USSR beyond what was already surrendered in 1940, and had to lease additional territory to the Soviets so they could have a Naval base on Finish soil.
The idea that Finland successfully fought to maintain its independence is a myth. Members of the Finnish General Staff publicly admitted that they knew the Soviets ambitions in Finland were limited, that the complete conquest of Finnish territory was never a Soviet goal.
Finland's post-war neutrality, it reluctance to ally with the west, was strongly "encouraged" by the Soviets.
They never invaded the USSR, stopped at the original border.
You are quite selective in your history. You ignore the Finish Waffen SS units.
Wikipedia is your friend.
Funny you mention that. That is were I double checked everything I wrote.
The USSR stole important territory from the Fins which they still hold.
Agreed. The Soviets were absolutely in the wrong for originally invading Finland. However that was not the topic being addressed, the myth of Finland successfully defending itself and knowing how to handle the Russians was. Both wars ended with Finland ceding territory to the Soviets.
(Are you Russian? If so then realize that virtually all you were taught at school is a fabrication.)
The Finns need to do as Germany has done. Admit its defeat. Admit its sins. Not build myths (or as you say, fabrications) to cover up both.
I am not a Russian, the Russians have an entirely different fabrication of events from what I offered. I am just someone who saw a western documentary on Nazi collaborators. Finland was covered in one episode so I had a basic familiarity with the history. I then went to wikipedia (as you now suggest) to get the details and double check my recollection.
Since you are hinting about my motivations I will share them. I believe it is best not to let people who put on Waffen SS uniforms perpetuate "lies" pretending they were not defeated. Such myths must be challenged. The reality is:
- The Finns fought well and slowed the Russian down but were defeated and ceded territory.
- They grossly compromised their ethics by collaborating with the Nazis to invade Russia. They had prior knowledge of Barbarosa and their retaking of previously ceded territory was part of Barbarosa. They further collaborated with the Nazis by supplying Waffen SS troops that fought in German campaigns against Russia.
- They were again defeated, ceded even more territory, paid reparation, removed border defense and leased still more territory to the Soviets for a Soviet navy base.
- Successfully preserving an "independent" Finland is a myth. The Finnish General Staff admitted the Soviet intentions were always limited, they Soviet plan was only to take part of Finland.
That said, as things turned out, the Fins would have been much better off just giving Stalin what he demanded, even if the demand was unreasonable.
Very sadly, yes.