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Micron and Intel Announce 3D NAND Flash Co-Development To Push SSDs Past 10TB
MojoKid writes Both Micron and Intel noted in a release today that traditional planar NAND flash memory is reaching a dead-end, and as such, have been working together on 3D memory technology that could open the floodgates for high densities and faster speeds. Not all 3D memory is alike, however. This joint development effort resulted in a "floating gate cell" being used, something not uncommon for standard flash, but a first for 3D. Ultimately, this 3D NAND is composed of flash cells stacked 32 high, resulting in 256Gb MLC and 384Gb TLC die that fit inside of a standard package. That gives us 48GB per die, and up to 750GB in a single package. Other benefits include faster performance, reduced cost, and technologies that help extend the life of the memory.
Simple. Don't use SystemD! Get one of the BSD's.
A monkey could configure a 10TB array right now and power isn't exactly a problem. Putting it in a single drive is neat but the #1 problem with SSDs right now is price. The prices are horribly inconsistent day to day. They can make a 2Tb or 10Tb or 10000TB drive for all I care but what I need for my many, many custom builds at my shop is a low cost 240-256GB SSD.
Once in a while I can get a $90 silicon power S60 240GB SSD. Crucial's MX and BX series hit that low once in a while. All others are perpetually above $100 which is too expensive for a Facebook wonder do-nothing PC with a pentium 4th edition and 4GB of RAM. Some people do reasonably go past 120GB too so I do typically want to use 240GB drives. I blame smartphones' cameras and itunes' automatic backup of ipads and other devices.
Hopefully this also sees a reduction in the cost of SSDs to bring them closer in line with platter drives, which have only just started dropping into the $30/TB range once more (since the Thai floods gave manufacturers their own Sumitomo excuse to drive up prices).
If the market had progressed more realistically, platter drives would be $15/TB and we'd already have consumer-level 10TB drives, but Seagate and Western Digital took a breathing period to reap profits, allowing SSD technology to start playing catch-up. ...not that SSD makers are off the hook... they've gone to smaller fab processes that shortened the life of NANDs and also have kept prices from falling at a reasonable rate, too.
I think we are two or three breakthroughs from reaching parity on cost per byte for platter and solid state tech, at which point, platter technology will likely become a very small niche market.
The Headline states 10TB
The story peaks at 750GB.
An editor would spot the discrepancy.
All others are perpetually above $100 which is too expensive for a Facebook wonder do-nothing PC with a pentium 4th edition and 4GB of RAM.
Why use an SSD in such a do-nothing PC? If you can't go with a regular HD try a hybrid SSD-HD. Last I looked a hybrid with 1 TB HD and 8 GB SSD was under $80.
Toshiba announced a similar idea of 3D stacking Nand's 3 or 4 years ago and they were also starting production shortly?
At this rate I'll finally be able to have my entire music collection on an iPod without having to compress my music in that terrible FLAC format. FLAC is a "lossless" format but you can totally hear which bits have been squished into the file for too long! That's why I decompressed all my files and let them sit for a week, so that the bits can breathe.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
More layers of NAND will just multiply the already steep cost. With process shrinks and MLC, flash endurance is falling sharply, and the bits literally leak out over time. In addition to being physically unreliable, the complex software stack required to transform block-erasable flash into useable storage does not inspire confidence, especially when virtually no drives guarantee data integrity with loss of power.
Far more interesting would be solid state storage based on memristors or phase-change memory. It would provide excellent performance and reliability without the complexity and limitations of flash-based SSDs.
they are optimizing the design to be 3D printed in my living room? I'm already 3D printing my house, and the car in the garage, it would be nice if we could 3D print a complete house including the laptop in one pass?
Keep more than one version of Fedora on your computer, in different partitions. I currently have F14, F17, and F20. Use multiple drives, so that worst case there are multiple boot drives available from BIOS. Keep a "Live CD" available on a USB flashdrive.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
You should dual-boot between Fedora and Slackware. Then you can solve your systemd problems by hacking your Fedora partition from Slackware.
(or quit being a nitwit that beats the systemd dead horse joke)
Good old reliable tape. None of this fancy random access hard disk garbage that fails all the time, or complicated wear leveling flash nonsense.
Maybe something like core memory or bubble memory if I need some random access behavior.
I hear it's down to a penny per bit, only around 1200 megabucks for 10 gigabytes of Core memory.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
ROFL...needing THREE installs of the same OS along with a LiveCD just to keep a working system thanks to systemd, while the other guy has to use XP just to Google for fixes for his "modern and new" 2015 Linux install? Yep, its soo ready for the desktop ha ha ha ha! Been saying for years, if you don' t demand better, hold asshat devs like Poettering's feet to the fire? Then you deserve the half baked mess that you get. No wonder The Hairyfeet Challenge is celebrating its eighth year unbeaten!
As for TFA....how are the MTBF for 3D NAND? Did they manage to lick the "controller fails and takes out the drive" issue? Because while the speed of SSD is great one thing that royally blows ass is how you get fuck and all for warning before they shit themselves and die. I'm sure some jackhole will pop up with some anecdote (while neglecting to mention he dropped the thing) about "his HDD just died" but since I've done more HDD replaces than many here have had home cooked meals and by and large? You get plenty of warning with HDDs. You get write errors, you get noise, stutters, they will usually give you enough time to get your data off...not SSDs, I thought Intel had the right idea by giving them a finite lifespan but on that big SSD shootout the Intel one did the "no BIOS/UEFI" brick bit just like the rest.
I mean as much money as they are spending increasing size, is it too much to ask to have a little "failover" chip that just leaves the drive in a read only state so you can get your stuff off if it shits the bed?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Systemd isn't the problem. You are.
Go away, troll.
ZFS Root is worth it alone.
My Dell M6800 can hold 4(!) hard drives: 2 Hard drives, +1 replacing the DVD, +1 mSATA.
4x drives in a RAIDz provides pretty decent redundancy in a mobile workstation.
Actually Hairy this was tested .
Ssds are more reliable than platters these days. My 2012 Samsung pro in raid 0 still functions. There is a free tool out there that gives you health and life of a ssd reported I had til 2025 before it goes kaput. Times are changing and sand force is gone.
Try it ... and system D guy was troll and off topic trying to start a flameware. SystemD and other init replacements were hip since 2005 when Apple did theirs ... until last summer when sys admins who find nothing wrong with dozens of 200 line programs all linked created thousands of threads upon startup felt threatened
http://saveie6.com/
I built a FreeBSD 10.1 server with a single root ZFS pool consisting of seven 3 TB drives in RAID-Z3, including a small 7-way mirror of swap space. The process was completely pushbutton using the install UI. Partly I did it just to explore how much difficulty the install might be (no difficulty whatsoever), but the setup has proved very effective in use.
It was pretty cool rerouting some of the SATA connections randomly (even to a different HBA) as a test, and removing two of the drives as a test, and having it still boot to a fully operating state and run fully usably with no intervention or drama at all.
After extensive experimentation and production use, the only real criticism I have that is just head-scratchingly stupid and lame is that there is no sensor capability, and no one in development seems to think there is a glaring problem with its omission. Coretemp works beautifully, but you can't detect fan rotation or access any voltage or secondary temperature sensors.
At least spell ir right, you guys, so you don't look like idiots. It's systemd, not "SystemD". Sheesh! Does anyone write FtpD or HttpD or SmtpD?
For monitoring motherboard stuff:
http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/healthd/>systutils/healthd
I see your 900 TB and raise you to 2 freaking petabytes. Not quite a min raise, I realize...
I come here for the love
Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out. The proper URL is http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/healthd/. Unfortunately all the links at that page are now dead and "there is no maintainer for this port". I will try it, with trepidation, though all other sensors related ports for FreeBSD appear to be garbage.
Yeah spell it right - it's 'systemd'. Looks like an OK operating system, shame it doesn't have a decent init.
Sigh...please read TF post before replying...kay? I did NOT say that SSDs were unreliable, hell I use 'em myself as boot drives (because I don't give a shit if I lose the OS, won't be my first Windows install after all) my problem is they tend to fail unexpectedly. And that test? Yeah I'm afraid that means jack and shit, after all if you had run a test on Maxtor and only ran it on 2002 and 2004 it would have shown they were very reliable, 2003 was when they had the bad batch.
Look nothing you are saying changes the fact that its NOT the flash that fails by and large ITS THE CONTROLLER and with current designs if the controller fails? You boot up and no BIOS or UEFI detection. please don't take MY word for it, Google "SSD no BIOS detection" and just replace BIOS with UEFI after the first pass and see for yourself this is NOT an isolated incident and unless you have own EEPROM reader and the skills to rebuild the array? You be fucked son.
At the end of the day the absolute worse case scenario? I spend an hour building a clean box and switch the platters long enough to get the data, i did that not too long ago for a woman who had the only copies of pics of her recently deceased nephew on a drive that fried its electronics, if that would have been SSD? It would have cost her thousands if she could have even found somebody to do it. Its 2015 man, there is no damned reason they couldn't put a backup controller that turns the drive into a WORM medium and alerts the user, no reason at all.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
*whoosh*
The problem isn't the write cycles reaching the end (what the ssd life estimator is doing), it's the frigging controller dying. The life span is far beyond the average consumer and really an issue for servers with 24/7 loads.
The data is still perfectly in the bga's, but no consumer is going to remove those bga's, destroy a good ssd, and transplant the data to use with working controller.
You can't estimate when the controller dies. It just does, and it pisses people off to no end.
That is why parent said there is a need for a way to reach out the data bypassing the broken controller.