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Russia Wants To Work With NASA On a New Space Station
HughPickens.com writes with news that Russian officials are talking about working with NASA to build a new space station as a replacement for the ISS after its operations end in 2024. Igor Komarov, head of the Russian Federal Space Agency, was unambiguous in his support for such a partnership. He added, "It will be an open project. It will feature not only the current members of the ISS." NASA, while careful not to discourage future cooperation, was not so enthusiastic. They said, "We are pleased Roscomos wants to continue full use of the International Space Station through 2024 -- a priority of ours -- and expressed interest in continuing international cooperation for human space exploration beyond that. The United States is planning to lead a human mission to Mars in the 2030s, and we have advanced that effort farther than at any point in NASA's history. We welcome international support for this ambitious undertaking." They reiterated that there are no formal agreements in place as of yet. These comments come as three crew members arrive at the ISS, two of whom will be up there for an entire year.
or something like that.
Why do they retire the ISS? Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to keep it in orbit and expand/maintain what we already have up there?
Watch out for little green men showing up. Sure, they will claim to be locals just protecting fellow Russians, but it never goes well.
Station Spaces you!
I know there are at least a few efforts at work on private space stations, including space hotels.
To me it no longer makes sense for government to work on a space station, when they could be helping to fund private efforts by guaranteeing to lease some of the space aboard commercial stations for government use.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"We really don't have the budget, and unlike roskimos, we normally don't make blatent proclimations of a project without getting some sort of funding first".
If they had an actual roadmap of collaboration, ala: moonbase, la grange point, mining/self-sustainment, mars. I as a tax payer would be all for this. We don't need another LEO station that does nothing but a few microgravity experiments and human life science experiments, we know microgravity is harmfull, its a dead end. We need to develop stations that simulate their own gravity, we need to develop systems that can re-create our own magnetic fields for shielding and protection. We need to open the door wide open for fission for massive amounts of available power.
Without any of these three things man kind is gowing no where but LEO....and thats the bottom line.
Surprised Putin doesn't want to work with NASA on missil--er, new rockets and peaceful technology like that.
If the US wants to go to Mars for more than a single short mission, it's going to need the ISS or a replacement. We'll need to be able to build ships in orbit so they aren't limited by the constraints of the first hundred or so miles of the trip (lifting the ship up from the surface to Earth orbit), that's the only way we'll be able to build them large enough for the crew, supplies and equipment needed for a mission of more than a week or two. And if we want this to be a sustained thing, sending more than a couple-three missions, we're going to need to be able to build ships without shipping the majority of their components up from surface.
We can already see the parallels from large historical construction projects in the US. For Hoover Dam they didn't ship the concrete in from the nearest cities and they didn't have the workers commuting between the dam site and those cities. They set up the cement plant on-site to make the concrete from local materials and a town sprang up at the site to house and supply the workforce. For resources (silver, gold, timber, cattle, oil, etc.) it's worked the same way, people moved to where they were needed and the facilities and infrastructure to house, support and feed those people grew with the population. Because frankly you just can't run an oil field in Texas with all your workers and suppliers back in New Orleans.
"I propose that the United States delivers its astronauts to the ISS with the help of a trampoline." Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin
http://bit.ly/1BSlzlo
That's why the US can't trust the Russians to be part of a future joint space project. As soon as they have some leverage, they will use it.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
Please explain to me why it needs to be replaced? It's took a lot of money to get all that weight up there in the first place. As an engineer I want to reuse and expand and not throw anything away.
NASA can't build tin cans that can survive in space for a hundred years? There are planes from WW2 that are still flying and those rattle. And yes I can understand that they can turn into swiss cheese but that's what patching and welding is for.
Hopefully at some point Elon Musk will be able to back away from the day to day operation of SpaceX and start recycling and manufacturing facilities in space. Things get at least a hundred times cheaper when they don't have to survive the stresses of liftoff. I can see a day when everything is covered with shielding panels and as they get corrupted are replaced, melted down and recast.
So what happens in 2024? They shut ISS down? I expect to see another crater somewhere in the middle of Australia soon after.
Anyway, if you are going to build another one, then move it far out at null gravity between the Moon and Earth, instead of stuffing around in Earth orbit, i.e. stationary. Make it count as a stepping stone at least.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
Of course they do!
We paid them to build their parts of the current space station out of surplus parts. We then had to build and install converters because they didn't build their parts to match what we already had up there. And, we pay them every time they bring an astronaut of ours up or down because we don't have any rockets of our own. When they found out we were decommissioning the shuttles, they jacked the price from $20-million to $55-million.
The next space station might end up looking like a giant drydock. I hope they get serious about assembling ship pieces in orbit to make an end run around the rocket equation.
I would be in favor if they built something like this: http://vignette3.wikia.nocooki...
Oh please.
You seem to have an industrial supply of stupid availalbe for posting. By the way, you forgot that probably the worst casualties inflicted on Russia were by the Communist government. Does the terror famine in Ukraine ring a bell?
You also seem to have forgotten the border fighting between Russia/USSR and China.
Even better, the USSR actually asked permission of the US to nuke China in the 1960s. The US said "no."
You seem to be confused on multiple levels.
The ISS was a huge waste of NASA money, costing as much as all of NASA's "space exploration activities" combined (source:). This prevented, killed and neutered many missions that would have produced genuine science. It was simply a mistake. So hooray, let's make a bigger one!
Yeah, that's basically "Go F* yourselves" in diplomatic speech.
And as it should be.
"99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
That is the sticking point - USA, a racist country, doesn't want anybody from China to get into space
No, the US, a racist country, doesn't want its stuff stolen by China, another racist country. Given that the US already works with Russia, Japan, and the ESA countries, which are all racist countries, I'm sure something can be arranged. Probably what would happen is that the relatively secret stuff that the US has on the ISS like the communication system (TRDSS) will either be opened up or a few wheels will be reinvented in order to eliminate a good portion of the stuff that China would want to steal.
Moving on, I think the real problem with this concept is how badly the ISS turned out. It's an awful lot of money spent for little outcome. I suspect that the parties involved would both want a bigger and flashier space station than the ISS, would want the US to pay most of the cost, and there would be the same massive inefficiencies, vast cost overruns, and corruption as were present in ISS
Probably what would happen is that the relatively secret stuff that the US has on the ISS like the communication system (TRDSS) will either be opened up or a few wheels will be reinvented in order to eliminate a good portion of the stuff that China would want to steal.
Actually, there's nothing really secret about TDRSS. They're just bent-pipe communications satellites like all the others, just with a bit of an odd frequency set. The Radios on the space shuttle were derivatives of those used on military aircraft, but that's about it.
...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
It is because OUR Germans are better than THEIR Germans.
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( those who saw the film "The Right Stuff" may recall the above line of
dialogue in that film )
Fuck you Russia
We forgave them after the cold war and they've just started it all over again.
We could have been their partners before. But because their treachery we could only accept them as subordinates in any cooperative arrangement going forward. They have shown themselves to be unworthy of being trusted as equal partners.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Let me guess its gonna be like the current one, owned by Russia, but US pays more then 75% of the costs to build it?
1) "Terror" famine in 30-s was EVERYWHERE in USSR. There are some territorial variations of famine but they are depended on structure of agriculture, not on nationality. Being a grandson of kulak I know these facts from my parents.
2) The famine was result of mass exchange of grain to Western industrial technologies, and destruction of peasantry created masses of hungry industrial workers. Both were needed to survive WWII.
If you know history of space exploration you should know that it were Americans who actually bought the Russian technology of long spaceflights, including the space toilet.
Well, let Saakashvili kill 80'000 South Ossetians and Poroshenko make a Crimea-wide massacre similar to Odessa May 2,2014?
Actually, there's nothing really secret about TDRSS.
They're encrypted, TDRSS communications is routed through US military infrastructure, and the US military is the primary user of the system. There might not be much secret about the TDRSS system and protocols, but a lot of stuff associated with it is secret (in the sense of (IMHO legitimately) classified as secret).
Russia should be working with all of the ISS partners, along with private space, to go to the moon. That makes the most sense for the next move.
As to leo space stations, let private space handle that.
Shit! We have a real TARDIS?... (googling - !)... damn, I was so disappointed that TDRSS was NOT a typo.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Glad to hear it. I bet most comments here will degrade to political shit talk. But you know, i think this is a great step for man kind.
1) "Terror" famine in 30-s was EVERYWHERE in USSR. There are some territorial variations of famine but they are depended on structure of agriculture, not on nationality. Being a grandson of kulak I know these facts from my parents.
Those "territorial variations" ended up with Ukraine getting much harder than anywhere else.
2) The famine was result of mass exchange of grain to Western industrial technologies, and destruction of peasantry created masses of hungry industrial workers. Both were needed to survive WWII.
This is an interesting rationalization. We have here the bald assertions that Russia had to starve Ukrainians in order to have industrial technologies and that there had to be "destruction of peasantry" resulting in "masses of hungry industrial workers" in order to survive WWII.
The US went through trying times too during that part of history, but they didn't have to starve millions of an uppity ethnic group in order to survive those times.
Wikipedia: The Soviet famine of 1932–33 affected the major grain-producing areas of the Soviet Union, leading to the deaths of millions in those areas and severe food insecurity throughout the USSR. These areas included Ukraine, Northern Caucasus, Volga Region and Kazakhstan,[1] the South Urals, and West Siberia.[2][3] The subset of the famine within the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic is called Holodomor or "hungry mass-death." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
If you look at the map there you could see the hunger hit all the grain producing regions (which supports my theory that potato-producing regions survived). But you remember Ukraine ONLY, not North Caucasus, not Volga region. Why?
But you remember Ukraine ONLY, not North Caucasus, not Volga region. Why?
Because most of the deaths were Ukrainian as reported by Wikipedia's sources. And Ukrainians would have died elsewhere than just in the Ukraine. A lot of people had been moved around during this period.
Second, I find it interesting that considerable argument has been put forth that there was a weather/climate contribution to the Holodomor, but no one can say what this contribution was. Along this vein, I see no evidence that Romania was suffering from this famine despite being right next to the Ukraine. Instead, their cereal production was higher in 1933 (which would have been the peak of the famine) than in 1932, despite a nasty economic depression.
Yeah, and sometimes Enterprise docks to restock on photon torpedoes. You got your assumption that "Chinese already have a space station in orbit" from the movie "Gravity", didn't you?
Dear Russia,
We would be happy to cooperate on this project.
However, you get to pay for it this time.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
No, the US, a racist country, doesn't want its stuff stolen by China, another racist country.
It's *waaaay* too late for that, we've been handing them our technology for 40 years. There's a reason all our stuff is made in China now... sure, cheap wages, but *also* that our companies have been sending them our technology know-how for all that time too. And what we haven't given them they've stolen (govt secret stuff).
Most countries don't want their "stuff stolen" to protect their workers/population. Here in the US, the politicians really only care about their owners, the corporate interests, and really could give a crap about the people.
Don't put it in Low Earth Orbit if you do another ISS. Space junk is one reason, another reason is that it's too simple to simply put another station in LEO. With the Orion project it should be feasible to put it in Lunar L1 or L2 or orbiting the Moon or even in GEO. Please raise the bar a little so that we see that it evolves.
I'd say we team with Satan himself if we could just build a Stanford Torus. Or *anything* that spins. I want to look up and see this with my telescope before I die!
Sure there's difficulty and complexity there, but so many of the problems we have (both biological and station operation wise) are fixed or at least minimized with a little artificial gravity. ANY "permanent" outpost needs artificial gravity. Many industrial processes we'd like to do might benefit from some weight/acceleration too. (and of course some stuff works better weightless- with some spin it's easy to have the best of both :) ) We've GOT to do this, let's stop stalling!
And many of the human issues of long duration flights to Mars or asteroid missions are minimized/eliminated with some spin. People bungie-corded to a tread mill is not a clever solution, it's an embarrassing duct-tape patch. People should be coming back from space ready to walk away and live normally.
Unless some clever physics/math/etc. geek comes up with a magical artificial gravity field, our only choice is to spin.
it's fleet of trampolines.
that sounds pretty weird, if you look what actually happened.
they deliberately arranged so that they were running out of food, what they did with the food is not related to that. in fact, they would have been better equipped to get industrialized without the famine.
and hungry industrial workers were needed to survive wwII?? industrial workers were required, but also the men were sent to the fronts, having nothing to do with that class of people being created from peasantry dying in masses due to famine.
and most importantly of course there were areas where people weren't dying from lack of food during the famine that was "everywhere". and no offence but people on gulags of course experienced famine, no matter where the gulag was - they were put there to experience famine!
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Perhaps they (the Russians and the U.S.) should concentrate their efforts in cleaning up the objects currently in low earth orbit. It wouldn't make much sense to assemble a brand new space station and then have it ripped to shreds by all of the junk they put up there. The current space station makes numerous orbital maneuvers every year to avoid potential impacts.
This thread was all right until it got invaded by Putinbots.
I imagine their bizarro reality to be a bit like the raving Republican Right right before the Iraq War. A crazy, demented, sad place, full of crazy demented, sad people.
Sputnik News/RT is Russia's answer to Fox News.
And Putin and his entourage are basically the Slavic equivalents of US Republicunts, but with a bit more intelligence and rat-cunning.