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Cannabis Smoking Makes Students Less Likely To Pass University Courses

Bruce66423 writes: A large scale European study shows that students who were unable to buy cannabis legally were 5% more likely to pass their University courses. Below-average students with no legal access to pot were 7.6% more likely to pass their courses, and the effect was five times more pronounced when dealing with courses involving math. One of the study's authors said, "We think this newfound effect on productivity from a change in legal access to cannabis is not negligible and should be, at least in the short run, politically relevant for any societal drug legalization and prohibition decision-making. In the bigger picture, our findings also indicate that soft drug consumption behavior is affected by their legal accessibility, which has not been causally demonstrated before. ... Considering the massive impact on cognitive performance high levels of THC have, I think it is reasonable to at least inform young users much more on consequences of consuming such products as compared with that of having a beer or pure vodka."

44 of 291 comments (clear)

  1. Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, the 5% of people who smoked weed at university, and realized university is a RE-EDUCATION CAMP where special educational tools are used to break the most dangerous young minds and prepare them for a life of productivity in service to the Man. *bong smoke floats out of my stained beanbag nest.*

    1. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Bengie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Society is ethically obligated to take care of its own, it's part of the social contract. So no, evolution won't take care of them, the tax payers will.

    2. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interesting that this part of the "social contract" only applies to bans and prohibitions in the minds of the right but they suddenly become very vocal on "self reliance" and "personal responsibilities" when it comes to funding for college educations for underprivileged students.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, just try and talk to them about a social contract to reduce the harm that comes from widespread ownership of firearms

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    4. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Kohath · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because "social contract" notions are always self serving. Forcing your choices on other people using threats (or implied threats) requires a justification. So "social contract" -- and do what you're told -- or give me the money I did not earn but I want to spend.

      Generally, a "contract" is entered into voluntarily, with no force or coercion, or it's not binding.

    5. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by ultranova · · Score: 2

      Society is ethically obligated to take care of its own, it's part of the social contract. So no, evolution won't take care of them, the tax payers will.

      This might surprise you, but us taxpayers also want entertainment. Such entertainment has a cost beyond mere monetary; for example, I might get a concussion while skiing, and that might permanently affect my cognitive functions, and in any case it requires energy to move to and from the resort location and it makes me unavailable for work for a long while.

      As it happens, the cost/entertainment ratio of cannabis is very low, so from the point of view of maximum efficiency legislating it is the right thing to do.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, just try and talk to them about a social contract to reduce the harm that comes from widespread ownership of firearms

      Widespread legal ownership of firearms isn't a problem. The problem come from illegal possession and misuse of firearms.

      The spread of concealed carry laws shows that law abiding citizens aren't the issue. Incidents among citizens licensed for concealed carry of firearms are rare, contradicting the predictions of doom from some.

      In your version of the social contract the strong can be predators while the old or infirm are defenseless. No thanks.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    7. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Kohath · · Score: 2

      People in power will still use threats (and violence if the threats don't work) to force you to accept their choices instead of your own. The point is:

      a. It's not legitimate. Saying "social contract" doesn't make it legitimate.
      b. Don't let people get away with pretending their choices are The Good Choices or they are The Good People. Every tyrant can offer justifications.
      c. Don't do it yourself -- even if you know which choices are The Good Choices and you know which people are The Good People who can make it all work out great. (This time for sure!)
      d. Vote for people who want to take decision making out of government hands. Then you can make your own contracts -- agreements that are mutually beneficial to everyone involved -- or you can decline without being threatened with violence.

    8. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, just try and talk to them about a social contract to reduce the harm that comes from widespread ownership of firearms

      You could replace 'firearms' with 'free speech' and find Great Powers (the PRC and Russia) that are sympathetic; somehow I doubt you'd be willing to emigrate there though. I also suspect that you'd be looking at a -1 mod right now, rather than +5, since your contribution to the discussion would be both offtopic and flamebait.

      Even if I accepted your premise about the social cost of gun ownership (I don't, violent crime in the US has continued to drop for decades, even as gun laws have been largely liberalized) it would not change my opinion about firearms ownership. Self-defense is an inherent human right, one that can not be exercised effectively without weaponry that negates disparities in physical strength, numbers, or size. The right of self-defense is recognized in the United States by the 2nd Amendment, as well as Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Kohath · · Score: 2

      It's possible to achieve improvements, even though it's impossible to achieve perfection (and usually undesirable to try). The goal is less force, fewer threats, less government power over people, and more personal autonomy.

      Saying "anarchy" is just like saying "social contract". Both are false, and neither legitimizes or justifies threatening people to impose your choices on them.

    10. Re: Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Kohath · · Score: 2

      But even by the rules of the people thrusting this upon me, it can only be a contract if I receive consideration. It creates in the society a duty to me. To deny that without also abolishing all law is simple thuggary.

      Since paying you a consideration is entirely optional, while obeying the law is not optional, it's clearly not a contract.

      But "all" law isn't thuggery. Laws against murder, for example, are inherently beneficial to all people who don't wish to be murdered (and if, for whatever reason, you do wish to be killed, it's easy to classify killing you as not murder in that circumstance). Even murderers don't wish to be murdered. The law benefits all.

      "Laws exist, therefore let's use them to force people to live the way we choose, and let's also use them to force people to pay us money we didn't earn" is thuggery.

    11. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Kohath · · Score: 2

      These are old arguments. The problem is that the people making them usually start with "in 1926, [someone you've never heard of] said ..." and then everyone falls asleep.

      Meanwhile, the other side says "you like free stuff, don't you?" and "you want to get back at those [insert slur here] people who aren't like you, right?" so "let's pass a law that will totally work great and won't backfire at all -- you'll get everything you want and those [insert slur here] people will pay".

    12. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It may surprise you, this coming from a "leftie" (aka European citizen), but I am actually in favor of private gun ownership.

      I just wish people who want to own one can spend a week with my old drill sarge. he sure knew a few things about safe gun handling and I'm glad he shared them with us.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by Undead+Waffle · · Score: 2

      I think you're kind of missing the point. It's all about perspective.

      Yes, and the one above regarding firearms and vehicles was flawed. Deeply so. Did you miss that point? Did you not grasp it? Was it unclearly expressed? If so, let me emphasize it, the point I was making in regards to the above post by jittles was a deeply flawed and distorted perspective that served little purpose beyond confusing the issue.

      Guns, which are designed to kill, do so much less often than accidental deaths from a tool people use every day.

      Now you see the point being missed, right? That people use cars every day, far more so than the usage of guns, the exposure is far greater, but the only number you, and the above poster, seem to care about, is the raw number.

      Do you not see why that's a flawed perspective?

      No I'm afraid it's you who is still missing the point. But given the rest of your rant I'm not surprised.

      Speaking of police shootings, I saw where several countries besides the US, had considerably lower rates of police shootings. Namely that the whole country had fewer shootings than some departments in the US have had, and no, I'm not talking countries like Andorra and San Marino, but Germany, Japan, the UK, and others, and no, I'm not talking about single incidents, but over a period of time.

      Let's not factor them out, but seriously discuss the issue of police violence in the US.

      Yes, we do have a problem with police shootings. But it's completely irrelevant to a discussion about allowing civilians to own guns. Just like how a police officer shooting someone trying to stab him with a knife being included with random school shootings creates misleading statistics about gun violence.

      We could also discuss the gang violence if you wanted, and the countries where the homicide rate from such is far lower, but then we might as well discuss where gang violence comes from, but that's probably a verboten topic, as too many people would have to give up their sacred cows. And before you come back with any rejoinders, realize that may apply to any you offer.

      Again, gang violence is also an issue. But it's a cultural issue and it is isolated to certain areas. And it tends to happen between gang members. I would be interested to see how much it skews gun violence numbers so we could get a better picture of the danger of guns to the rest of society.

      Thanks for the rant though. I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to an AC.

    14. Re:Marijuana's capacity to REVEAL TRUTH by skids · · Score: 2

      They didn't study the effects of the drug, they studied the effects of the LEGISLATION

      Or perhaps not even that, as causality was not established.

  2. I'm gonna go out on a limb. by queazocotal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And say that availability of alcohol has a vastly higher effect than 5%.

    1. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by gewalker · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, had you read the article ...

      “The effects we find are large, consistent and statistically very significant,” Marie told the Observer. “For example, we estimate that students who were no longer able to buy cannabis legally were 5% more likely to pass courses. The grade improvement this represents is about the same as having a qualified teacher and, more relevantly, similar to decreases in grades observed from reaching legal drinking age in the US.”

      So, about the same.

      I thought we already knew the academic impact of canibus use from the documentary Fast Times at Ridgemont High

    2. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      And say that availability of alcohol has a vastly higher effect than 5%.

      What is interesting is how alcohol is often seen as part of "college life" but that's exactly the period of your life when you shouldn't be drinking much at all to be able to think clearly.

    3. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Due to my own empirical observations, I would have to disagree. In my late teens and early twenties when studying liberal arts, philosophy and making my living as an illustrator and animator, I rarely drank but would smoke weed pretty frequently and maintained a 3.6 to 4.0 GPA without even trying.

      However, when I decided to teach myself to code a few years later, I found the weed really got in the way, so bought some beer and found I could drink a fair amount of beer and still grok the info I needed and retain it. As such, I stopped smoking weed and started drinking for my recreational pleasure.

    4. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Meanwhile, students who were incarcerated for possession of marijuana, or who lost their student loans for a marijuana arrest were 100% less likely to pass their university courses

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    5. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by geoskd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What is interesting is how alcohol is often seen as part of "college life" but that's exactly the period of your life when you shouldn't be drinking much at all to be able to think clearly.

      You, like many others mistakenly believe that the point of college is to get an education. In my estimation (as someone who has been involved with hiring for many different positions) A College degree (even from prestigious schools) is a poor indicator of intelligence, or ability. People who are capable, will learn from whatever source is available (And google is a much better source than all but a handful of professors). People who are not capable of learning on their own *must* go to a university to get an education, but these people make lousy employees, as they can never handle anything outside of the ordinary, and consequently are no better than ditch-diggers. Even the best schools in the world cant teach independent thinking. By the time a person gets to college, they either have it or they never will.

      You show me someone who graduated school while attending less than half their classes, and I'll show you someone who will be successful at whatever you give them to do. (This goes double for B.S. degrees).

      College is 100% about networking and creating relationships (both personal and professional). To that end, college social activities (including drinking) are an invaluable part of the experience. After all, its not about what you know, its about who you know.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    6. Re: I'm gonna go out on a limb. by kevinking.psyd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, not really. There are plenty of introverted people (i.e., not networkers) who learned valuable skills and got jobs based on knowledge gained in college. This is so blatantly obvious that I'm not even going to bother citing sources (a skill I learned in college). The burden of proof is on you. I will put this out for you though: do you really want a surgeon who skipped half of her classes operating on you? Do you really want your pediatrician diagnosing your childs illness based on google searches?

    7. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I do not think that using marijuana and murder are remotely similar

      The question raised in this study is the effect of legal marijuana, I am pointing out that criminalization of marijuana also has an impact on student performance

      Why are prohibitionists so quick to resort to insults?

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    8. Re:I'm gonna go out on a limb. by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's because you were studying liberal arts. Switching my major from computer science to philosophy took me from a 2.4 GPA to a 3.9 GPA overnight while eliminating the need for me to study.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    9. Re: I'm gonna go out on a limb. by geoskd · · Score: 2

      No, not really. There are plenty of introverted people (i.e., not networkers) who learned valuable skills and got jobs based on knowledge gained in college.

      I have a challenge for you: Create a fake resume, including only your information to the time you graduated college and submit it to as many positions as you can manage. Record the number of times you get a request for an interview. Now try submitting yourself for positions in a company by calling up someone you know who works there and asking them to put your name in for the position. Let me know what your success rate is with each method. I'll give you a hint, Regardless of your skill / experience, the jobs where your friends put your name in will get you interviewed even without a resume. The ones you submit a resume with only your college experience wont even get you a courtesy e-mail most of the time. Who you know is vastly more important than what you know.

      do you really want a surgeon who skipped half of her classes operating on you?

      I genuinely dont give a rats ass how they did on the vast majority of their class work. They could have failed most of their classes and I dont care. The fact is that The majority of their classes had nothing to do with the surgery at hand. Calculus, Organic Chemistry, 18 century history... What I do care about is: How many times have they done this surgery? Who did they study under for this surgery? What is their success rate with this surgery? The best way for them to get good at this surgery is to practice, and watch / work with good surgeons at this surgery. The best way to do this is to make friends with the good surgeons, and the best way to do that is through social activities. To be sure, the person has to have some potential, but you sure as hell dont get that from memorizing a bunch of useless shit in a class taught by someone who is only teaching because they cant hack it in the industry. When it comes to surgery (along with most things), you learn by doing, not sitting in the front row in a lecture hall.

      Do you really want your pediatrician diagnosing your childs illness based on google searches?

      My sons pediatrician *does* do google searches. He uses a tablet. I would be worried if he didn't because nobody on earth is going to remember the millions of possible afflictions that could be causing the symptoms.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
  3. This is a great argument! by Stickasylum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Television, video games, beer, and anything else potentially distracting to poorly performing students should be illegal too!

    1. Re:This is a great argument! by hitmark · · Score: 2

      Sometimes i wonder of the robots in the Matrix was "evolution" of corporate HR automation...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  4. unreal by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Informative

    playing too much unreal took way more than 5% off of my grades.

    i didn't start using cannabis regularly until after college, it's vastly superor to alcohol in the "how functional am i at work the next day if i overindulge" department.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    1. Re:unreal by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

      playing too much unreal took way more than 5% off of my grades.

      playing with myself took way more than 5% off of my grades.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:unreal by sensei+moreh · · Score: 4, Funny

      I found out during high school that I couldn't do Calculus while stoned; it was something I had to work around back then. Eight hours of sleep would clear it right out... Not so much a problem anymore; and I still do Calculus daily. :)

      Well, if you'd lay off the cannabis, maybe you'd finally pass calculus :)

      --
      Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
    3. Re:unreal by ultranova · · Score: 2

      Well, if you'd lay off the cannabis, maybe you'd finally pass calculus :)

      You can never pass calculus. By the time you get where it was when you started, the field has advanced.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  5. Um...obvious? by bradley13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ok, what am I missing? I mean, this seems obvious.

    Being stoned, just like being drunk, has kind of an obvious affect on your current cognitive abilities. For both drugs, you are looking a a time-frame of hours where you cannot study or work effectively. TFA even notes that the magnitude of the effect on grades is similar.

    If you drink alcohol or smoke pot on nights when you need to be studying, your grades are going to suffer. If you restrict yourself to times when you really don't have any obligations, then there won't be a problem. Young adults being, well, young adults, they may not always have the necessary self-awareness and self-discipline - hence, their grade may suffer while they are learning this life lesson.

    Make sure people are aware of the effects of the drugs. Encourage self-control and self-discipline. Prohibition is, and has always been, a non-solution.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Um...obvious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You missed that they explicitly did not study people who smoked pot versus people who didn't. They measured people that had legal access versus those who did not.

      Use, time of use, actual access, demographics, country, region, societal attitudes, and social support all were not accounted for.

    2. Re:Um...obvious? by ruhri · · Score: 2

      For this self-control and self-discipline, people would first and foremost have to know the effect it has on them. And that's the problem: They cannot know that.

      College is for many people the first time they can get away from their parents. For the first time without constant supervision. And hence of course the first time they can actually get in touch with the things their parents don't approve of. Whether that's drugs, booze or other "bad" behaviour, one thing is certain: They will indulge. Often to excess.

      Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. That's what I always tell my American friends, too. But this study has been done in the Netherlands. The drinking age is 18 (used to be 16 like in Germany, IIRC) and Dutch teenagers, much like any European teenagers are much more independent and self-reliant than their American counterparts. Helicopter parenting, while it does exist, is not very prevalent in Western or Northern Europe.

  6. "This, they argue, is not that surprising." by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find it quite surprising.

    Sure being a pot head is going to have a detrimental effect on your grades.

    But given my experiences with university in a place where marijuana was not legal I can't believe there are enough students who would not smoke when it is illegal but would when it is legal to swing the overall grade by 5%.

    1. Re:"This, they argue, is not that surprising." by Khashishi · · Score: 2

      I don't think the purpose of this article is to convince lawmakers to make marijuana illegal, but rather to convince university students to not smoke pot.

  7. Gibberish by pipingguy · · Score: 2

    In these days of ever-increasing volumes of information being thrown about it's important to be clear and unambiguous in the first few sentences of writing. I, for one, don't have the time to not not figure out the negative-reverse implications of failing to undisclose previously inversely unhidden assertions. Not.

  8. below average? by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    I wonder if chewing bubble gum would also impact a below average student's exam scores. Seems like minimize the distractions from sex, alcohol, and cannabis would tend to help most below average students.

    Also, if you can only smoke in these Dutch coffee shops, and spend all your time there instead of in your apartment or dorm, then less studying might explain away some of the exam scores.

    But despite the above concerned, I think most of us all assumed that there is some cognitive impact while someone is using cannabis. The debate has always been if this is temporary or is the impact long term. I tend to find a lot of holes in research that shows the negative impact to be long term. I have a hunch that there could be some neutral impact that is long term (changes but not detrimental), but that has been rather tough to measure.

    (researching comfortably from my armchair)

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  9. Paging Afroman by Jeremi · · Score: 2

    This article needs a soundtrack.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  10. Re:Wow by bunratty · · Score: 2

    If you include the fact that you never bought it, that's more information that affects the probabilities. It's just like in the Monty Hall problem where revealing a goat behind one door changes the probabilities of what's behind the other doors.

    Given the fact that cannabis was recently made legal where you live, you may be 5% less like to pass a class. Given the additional fact that you chose not to use cannabis, you may be 5% more likely to pass a class due to the curve being lowered by those who do smoke.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  11. Re:"compared to beer or vodka" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Harmless in a medical sense, sure. I don't think anybody is going to say that smoking all day isn't a potential huge distraction, just as getting drunk all day is.

    When in VietNam you had two groups, the drinkers (ropers) and the stoners (those who smoked marijuana); there may of been those who did neither but I never ran into one.

      I had a joint rolled so it was ready when I woke up the next morning, everyday was the same. Stoners never missed work, the drinkers did, when I left Nam I quit marijuana with no want or need for it, drinker were different. And I never saw marijuana as being a distraction, the ropers had a tendency of being drunk by the afternoon.

  12. Re:"compared to beer or vodka" by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No, legalization of marijuana is less harmful than criminalization

    In a long term study in Australia, comparing the effects of marijuana use in colonies that legalized and criminalized marijuana it was found that there was far worse long term outcomes int he colonies that criminalized marijuana

    This is because they lost opportunities such as education, faced poor job prospects and turned to life as petty criminals to earn a living.

    These effects were not seen in colonies that legalized marijuana, where users were able to gain education, jobs and go on to lead a normal life

    Criminalization is more harmful than legalization

    It is the prohibitionists that want to hold up the straw man argument of 'harmless' because it is easier to poke holes in

    --
    Wherever You Go, There You Are
  13. Re:Once again Correlation != Causation by Khashishi · · Score: 3, Informative

    Studies don't prove things. Studies fail to disprove things. Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it certainly is consistent with a theory of causation. It's also consistent with the theory that the purported effect is actually the cause, and the cause is the effect.

  14. Re:This is not America by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 2

    What country are you from?
    Here in America it is the cause of millions of arrests, up until very recently New York City used 'Stop and Frisk' as a way to target groups particularly for marijuana
    In much of the rest of America, any time that a person is pulled over they and their car are searched 'to check for weapons'

    Here is a piece of info from the ACLU:
    "According to the ACLU’s original analysis, marijuana arrests now account for over half of all drug arrests in the United States. Of the 8.2 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Nationwide, the arrest data revealed one consistent trend: significant racial bias. Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana."
    https://www.aclu.org/gallery/m...

    Here are numbers from the FBI identifying over 600,000 marijuana possession arrests a year:
    http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cm...

    --
    Wherever You Go, There You Are