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Pull-Top Can Tabs, At 50, Reach Historic Archaeological Status

New submitter kuhnto writes A simple relic of 20th century life has taken on new meaning for archaeologists: The ring-tab beer can — first introduced 50 years ago — is now considered an historic-era artifact, a designation that bestows new significance on the old aluminum cans and their distinctive tabs that are still found across the country.

120 comments

  1. Environmentalism, much? by saloomy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems that there are a more ubiquitous items we could designate? Why a form of pollution?

    1. Re:Environmentalism, much? by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Informative

      because they're plentiful and you can age camping grounds etc with them.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Environmentalism, much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pollution is massively valuable to archaeologists, that's where they learn a lot about the society. Millenium old rubbish heaps, midden heaps, toilets etc. All a society without writing leaves behind is ruins and pollution.

    3. Re:Environmentalism, much? by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the late 80's I was surveying an area that we used to party at in high school
      It had been fenced off for over a decade and it was interesting walking up on old fire pits that had been left to the desert
      Among the discarded clothing and garbage there was an occasional steel can that had been laying undisturbed where it had been thrown years earlier
      I grabbed one for myself, an old Schlitz steel can that was rusted to shit on one side and all spankin brand new on the other
      Yay! Archaeology!

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    4. Re:Environmentalism, much? by geekmux · · Score: 2

      because they're plentiful and you can age camping grounds etc with them.

      You mean the old copy of Hustler laying there wasn't good enough to date the "ancient" site?

      Give me a break, it's not hard to date American campgrounds. The whole damn country is less than 250 years old. You guys act like we're carbon dating shit here.

    5. Re:Environmentalism, much? by some+old+guy · · Score: 1

      Because beer.

      --
      Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
    6. Re:Environmentalism, much? by dysmal · · Score: 1

      Too bad there wasn't any beer left in that can. You could have sold it to some hipsters since they think Schlitz is good again.

    7. Re:Environmentalism, much? by hey! · · Score: 1

      By that argument why bother excavating garbage pits, when temples and mausoleums are so much sexier? Well, because temples and mausoleums are consciously built by high status people to convey messages. Garbage (and by extension pollution) tell you things about everyone, including things they didn't think worthy of documenting but turn out to be interesting.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:Environmentalism, much? by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 1

      They are supposed to have recently revived the original formula that they used in the 60's

      I remember that when I was a kid the pull tabs on Schlitz had little slits to either side of the rivet on the ring.
      You could bend the tab enough to breakit from the ring, then stick the tab into one of the slits by the rivet and use the tab as a spring to send the ring sailing across the room.
      Good times having ring wars with my friends while the adults got plastered, and yes everybody used to drink Schiltz back in the day Bud and Coors were barely in evidence

      The new aluminum cans didn't have slits on the rings, so you couldn't zing 'em around
      Yet another thing that was lost with the original formula, but, apparently, good for archaeology

      I guess you can't have it all, or they would bring back the 'Tuborg Dark' that a local brewer used to make in my hometown... Sweet dark heaven it was, and always came in a bottle so you could have bottle-cap wars while getting drunk

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    9. Re:Environmentalism, much? by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 1

      Temples and mausoleums lie and tell the story that they want you to think happened

      Garbage as no such aspirations and tells you what actually happened

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
  2. This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This TOTALLY matters.

  3. America by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Only in America could something only 50 years old be considered an "historic" artefact, archaeologically.

    That's the 1960's, people. Elsewhere, it's not even considered antique unless it's from 1915 or before. And, to be honest, there's an awful lot of stuff that's "antique" that's worthless. My house would basically qualify as antique and it just a normal suburban semi.

    This is what happens when you have only 500 years of recorded history and ignore anything that happened before then.

    I watched Time Team once, where they do an archaeological dig live on TV, The American episode was so dull because they basically couldn't touch anything. All the "history" was the top inch of soil. Over here in the UK, if it doesn't involve a six-foot-deep trench, you're not even getting past the modern rubbish into the proper archaeology.

    Ring-pulls aren't historical. They may be old, they may even be collectable, they may be something worth remembering for later years, but they're not historical. There's a bakelite museum I know of - fabulous place. Some of the stuff in there is antique, or damn close to the definition. But it's still just plastic. Nice to visit with the kids to show them how things used to be but hardly a point in history worth noting beyond casual interest.

    On the flip-side, I know a guy in Italy who goes through the Alps with a metal detector and still runs across first-world-war bodies, still with all their equipment intact. He has his own museum (and is properly licensed to do that, I'd like to point out). Even that is stuff nearly twice as old as this and of vital historical importance.

    Ring-pulls are still in my memory from being a kid 20 years ago. They aren't historical. Give it 50 years and maybe. But if they are "historical artefacts", then things like cassettes have been for years too.

    1. Re:America by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My mother's grandfather had founded a town along the border in the late 1800's
      The place has been largely abandoned since the Great Depression and we would take a rare trip down 50 miles of washboard road to visit the ruins when I was a kid
      There were a couple of people that had set up trailers and ran their own museums.
      Lots of stuff like the jar of whiskey with a rattle snake in it that an old Chinese man that lived there had used for medicine and broken pieces of my mom's family china that they had dug out of the trash pits
      Since then some of the town descendants have set up a web site and hold a reunion every now and then
      I'm pretty sure the guy with the museum is long dead, I doubt that he had any legal right to anything that he had scrounged
      That's how things used to roll in the desert

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    2. Re:America by oobayly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The difference between Europe and America:
      * In America 100 years is considered a long time
      * In Europe 100 miles is considered a long distance

      Certainly true for me - I grew up on an Island where we have monuments going back 5,100 years, but is only 174 by 302 miles in size.

    3. Re:America by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 1

      Because europeans can totally relate to miles?

      --
      -- Make America hate again!
    4. Re:America by ledow · · Score: 2

      UK is in Europe.

      Miles is just fine. We did let you borrow them, after all.

      However, 100 miles isn't a lot at all. The only difference is that you can go through four countries (without noticing) if you do that in certain places in Europe.

      Hell, it's 200 miles to get half-way across my country in it's narrowest dimension. We can do 450 miles for a long-weekend in Cornwall.

      Ironically, France is less distance from London than a tourist-y, beach-y destination like Cornwall.

    5. Re:America by ThorGod · · Score: 1

      What're these monuments?

      --
      PS: I don't reply to ACs.
    6. Re:America by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      The ones that aren't ignorant, shit-faced little fucks can.

      I suppose that might be a very small percentage, but I wouldn't want to associate with the others anyway.

    7. Re:America by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      You're mixing up "historic" and "antique".

      Yes, antique is old, but history is made every day. World Wars I & II, Great depression, Civil rights movement, Cold war, Fall of the Warsaw Pact... All that is history! Even though it happend after 1915.

      Heck we have historicans and archeologist digging up and recovering the remains of escape tunnels below the German/German-border because they are part of history and considered historically important! And they can still ask the people who dug them for help.

      --
      bickerdyke
    8. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Europeans are frequently fluent in more than one language. Americans are frequently fluent in multiple measuring systems.

    9. Re:America by Arnold+Reinhold · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you are missing the point. When the pullout tabs were phased out in favor of tabs that stay with the can, I remember thinking that a thousand years from now discarded pullout tabs will be a valuable archeological resource. They are distinctive, ubiquitous, and indestructible, and because they were only used during a short time, they would conclusively date any architectural layer they were found in. Maybe modern circuit boards with their date coded components will serve a similar purpose. I wonder what it would take to get current manufacturers to emboss a year code in can tops or in IC dies? Make trash serve history.

    10. Re:America by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      Back at university, our dorm was over 100 years old, and in my home town, just a few weeks ago, a restaurant has been closed and sold that has been run by the same family for almost 120 years.

      --
      bickerdyke
    11. Re:America by VMaN · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you grew up on Iceland, but nothing on man made is that old on Iceland. Did I assume wrong?

    12. Re:America by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Even if they aren't familiar with exactly how far a mile is, they know that it's a unit of distance used in similar situations to kilometers. It's reasonable to expect that the meaning of the saying wouldn't be lost on them.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    13. Re:America by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 0

      The difference between Europe and America: * In America 100 years is considered a long time

      I hear this shit all the time from Europeans. Oh your country is only 200 years old. Fucking racist, we had people here 30,000 years ago, just because they're a different colour doesn't mean it's less relevant.
      And ultimately we're all 2000th generation African, so we all share a common history. It's not like humans in this part of the world just popped out of thin air 200 years ago. Your 5000 year old relics are equally my 5000 year old relics, since their connection to either you or I is so equally distant.

    14. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ireland is more likely.

    15. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nitpick: UK is part of the European Union, but is not in Europe. But that's not so important.

      Oobayly's quote is usually worded to attribute 100 miles being a long distance to Englishmen rather than Europeans, which makes more sense.

    16. Re:America by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      Rule of thumb: If somebody is still alive to remember it, it's not archaeological, it's just obsolete.

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    17. Re:America by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      In Florida, it's 350 miles from Jacksonville to Miami. Follow the road down to Key West, and that's another 150. And you've never even left the state, much less the country. Key West, incidentally, is closer to Havanna than to Miami, speaking of inter-country distances.

      A friend once told me of a college reunion where they gave a prize for whoever traveled the farthest to get there. The guy from Philadelphia lost to a Floridian who not only did the full North-South route, but the East-West route. Over 1000 miles totally within Florida.

    18. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a cow! Moooooo! Moooo says the cow!

    19. Re:America by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Or a thousand years from now, an archaeologist might suddenly discover what those famous lines from Jimmy Buffet's "Margaritaville" actually meant. Ouch!

    20. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are always exceptions to every rule.

    21. Re: America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Googol maps says Pensacola to Key West is 832 miles. (12hr, 32min)

    22. Re:America by trumpetplayer · · Score: 1

      The difference between Europe and America: European people generally have the ability to differentiate between "country" (a political thing, e.g. United States of America, or USA for convenience) and "continent" (a geographical thing, e.g. America). It gets a little trickier for us Europeans once we take "state" and "nation" into consideration too, but that is a different story.

    23. Re:America by ledow · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but you're wrong.

      "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom or Britain, is a sovereign state in Europe."

      We are in the continent of Europe (as is Greenland). We are in the EU. We are not on the European mainland but neither is Iceland or Ireland, also both considered part of Europe (one even uses the Euro), and a few other places.

      We are in the EU (for which you have to be, well, on the continent of Europe!). We were in the EC / EEC before that.

      We're not AUTOMATICALLY part of various European entities, and enjoy certain exceptions, but we are quite clearly on the European continent, in European organisations, and part of Europe even if we don't consider ourselves European. It would like the US not considering itself part of North America.

      As a Brit, I'll tell you that we joke and talk about Europe like a foreign place, but we're part of it. In the same way that someone in Singapore might tell you they're going around Asia for their holidays.

      We don't, however, use the Euro (neither does Iceland and a few other European countries). Mainly because the pound has proven to be much stronger, but given that the UK's biggest strength is in finance, that's not surprising.

    24. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From southeast to the northernmost point of Michigan is about 630 miles. That is not even considered a large state.

    25. Re:America by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      The ones that can understand the use of English instead of their respective native language certainly won't be bothered with the archaic distance measurement.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    26. Re:America by FoxMcElroy · · Score: 1

      A normal suburban house may not get you much money. It may not be something people would watch excavated on Time Team. But to an archeologist, an average house is usually one of the things most cherished. That said, fifty years is just a minimum time to be considered historic legally. We're not going to preserve most antique houses, much less beer tabs. Simply, we wouldn't even consider the possibility earlier. It's a good time to start considering if something should be preserved, with an perspective decently removed from the present but still likely to exist (which is a useful feature for preservation).

    27. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nitpick: UK is part of the European Union, but is not in Europe. But that's not so important.

      Oobayly's quote is usually worded to attribute 100 miles being a long distance to Englishmen rather than Europeans, which makes more sense.

      What the fuck ?!?!?!?! Good God man, pick an Atlas (they still sell those books in the US of A don't they ?) and look carefully. The UK is in Europe. Geographically the UK is in Europe. Politically they are in the EU, and they are not a member of the Euro currency. See it's not difficult but I guess when everything starts and stops at the canadian and mexican borders your worldview can get mixed sometimes. *_*

    28. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another difference is that after a couple thousand years, it seems europeans have had war bred out of them. Evolution works!
      It doesn't seem to work on muslims though, so the debate of nature or nurture lingers on. It looks like we'll have Americans kicking the shit out of everyone for another century at least, until the Chinese apply the laws of large numbers. What does this have to do with global warming anyway? Systemd will take care of this, if only congress would get off their ass.

    29. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rule of thumb #2: don't rely on Slashdot comments by non-professionals for guidance on anything

      As soon as anything is discarded, it is archaeological, i.e. part of the material record. Material culture is a continuum, and modern artifacts are just as packed with cultural/sociological significance as ancient ones. Indeed, there have been many very recent sites investigated archaeologically.

      Whether you are legally required to preserve a given artifact/site is a completely different issue.

    30. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rule of thumb #3: everything will be argued on Slashdot. Absolutely everything. Every single thing. Any little thing you say, even if you offer it as a general rule or an estimate or an approximation or "I thought it was" -- it will be argued into the ground, exhumed, reburied and argued some more. (it's a long but important rule)

    31. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wouldn't consider WWII objects to be of historical importance?

    32. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Philadelphia to Miami, 1,197 miles
      Pensacola to Miami, 701 miles (longer route selected)

      You're full of shit, meng. Mostly due to the fact that the pan handle of FL is shorter than the distance from FL to PA, period. So regardless how far north-south you're going, it will be added to the PA route the same as the FL route.

    33. Re:America by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      he guy from Philadelphia lost to a Floridian who not only did the full North-South route, but the East-West route. Over 1000 miles totally within Florida.

      Then he deserved the prize for shittiest route planner. I can track 5,000 miles in Florida if I drive the costline a couple times before actually heading to my destination. Just because the guy picked a horrible route doesn't make the state that large. Basically what you're saying is the guy drive A1A and I-95 from key west to the Georgia -Florida line ... THEN decided to cut west on A1A back to I-10 and took I-10 to someplace like Pensacola.

      Yea, its possible, but its stupid. Its like driving from Atlanta to Boston ... via Chicago.

      To drive over 1000 miles in florida, you have to intentionally take the long route, you can't do it by taking ANY optimal or near optimal route between ANY 2 points in the state.

      Florida != Texas or Alaska

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    34. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are confusing "in Europe" with "on the Continent".

      The UK is most definitely in Europe.

      We are not on the Continent.

    35. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately I live in Florida. I had to commute 132 miles to work for five years since I couldn't move. Yes we need high speed trains here - badly.

    36. Re:America by sh00z · · Score: 1

      I think you are missing the point. When the pullout tabs were phased out in favor of tabs that stay with the can, I remember thinking that a thousand years from now discarded pullout tabs will be a valuable archeological resource. They are distinctive, ubiquitous, and indestructible, and because they were only used during a short time, they would conclusively date any architectural layer they were found in. ...

      Exactly. I'm a contractor at the NASA Johnson Space Center. One day in the 90's, I was walking across a parking lot that had just been graded flat in preparation for a new layer of asphalt. I found myself in a "field" of dozens of pull-tabs embedded in the pavement. It was easy and fun to imagine some Apollo-era astronaut gathering. The Right Stuff, indeed.

      (of course, today, just bringing alcohol inside the gate will get you fired)

    37. Re:America by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      I totally disagree.

      What makes these old things interesting is that they show change over time. Imagine a museum with decade-themed rooms for each decade from about 1900 till now. There would be something unique to see for each room. Even the 2000s vs the 20-teens would be obvious with big desktops and blackberries in the former, tablets and iPhones or Androids in the latter. You could really see the style changes in the 50s through tte 80s. The prosperity of the 20s vs the austerity of the 30s would be apparent. Watch those early radios change from the bulky aparatis of the early 1900s to the pretty furnature consoles and tombstones of the 20s then the bakelite shelled AC/DC models of the depression and after the war.

      Now let's look at the REALLY REALLY ancient stuff. The first few million years of human history are dominated by stone tools. Those tools can be separated into a mere handful of techological periods with little variation within a period.

      Of course there are a lot of periods of artifacts in-between. As you get closer to the present though the changes acclerate making there more to study.

      If we waited until our current stuff was 100s or 1000s of years old a lot of this information would be lost forever. Do your kids know what an 8-track is?

    38. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to say - *I* was "introduced" to the world 50 years ago ... does that make me a "historical artifact"?

      Reminds me of me first trip to Europe. Went to see buildings that had been built 500 years ago and were still in use and structures in Greece that had been built 2,000 years ago. On the flight home I'm sitting next to these two California girls and we're talking about our trips to Europe. I comment that seeing so much history and ancient builds was great, to which they reply that "You know, we have old things in California also".

    39. Re:America by McGruber · · Score: 2

      Over here in the UK, if it doesn't involve a six-foot-deep trench, you're not even getting past the modern rubbish into the proper archaeology.

      In America, we don't brag about living atop six feet of trash...

    40. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference between Europe and America:
      * In America 100 years is considered a long time

      I hear this shit all the time from Europeans. Oh your country is only 200 years old. Fucking racist, we had people here 30,000 years ago, just because they're a different colour doesn't mean it's less relevant.

      And ultimately we're all 2000th generation African, so we all share a common history. It's not like humans in this part of the world just popped out of thin air 200 years ago. Your 5000 year old relics are equally my 5000 year old relics, since their connection to either you or I is so equally distant.

      What kind of legacy did the native americans leave 2000-3000 years ago to civilisation ? The Romans built roads, acquaducts, conquered the known world, invented Roman Law (that underpins most non common law systems even today). The Chinese had similar accomplishments. The Greeks invented Democracy (although Greek democracy was different from modern day democracies), managed to conquer territories up to India , had great philosophers etc...
      American history starts in the 16 th fucking century with European explorers. Your nation comes into existence in the late 18th century. So yeah you're a young nation.

    41. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What town to what town in TX gives you 1000 miles on google maps? I'm getting 860 or so at best. Winterhaven, CA to Crescent City CA is 1000 miles (1622km). Alaska though.. that's just another league. 2600 miles (4180 km) from Juneau to Prudhoe Bay.

    42. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From southeast to the northernmost point of Michigan is about 630 miles. That is not even considered a large state.

      It seems less than that - even from the corner down by Toledo to the top of the island off Canada.
      Texas is 800 from the NW corner of the panhandle to the valley near Brownsville.

    43. Re:America by myth24601 · · Score: 1

      According to the article, it wasn't so much that the tabs were historical artifacts, it was that they could be used to date a location from 50 years ago. The example in the article was a campsite that was used during the 60s based on the type of pull tab on the beverage containers.

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    44. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only in America could something only 50 years old be considered an "historic" artefact, archaeologically. ..Elsewhere, it's not even considered antique unless it's from 1915 or before.

      Great, so your historians aren't even allowed to talk about WW2 yet? I hope you enjoy the WW3 that you're invariably going to start.

    45. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference between Europe and America:
      * In America 100 years is considered a long time
      * In Europe 100 miles is considered a long distance

      Certainly true for me - I grew up on an Island where we have monuments going back 5,100 years, but is only 174 by 302 miles in size.

      Billy Connoly tells of the town in Scotland, where they talk about the new bridge there - built in the 11th century. And the old bridge is right next to it.

    46. Re:America by Chelloveck · · Score: 2

      Only in America could something only 50 years old be considered an "historic" artefact, archaeologically.

      Crap, by that standard my wife can be considered a historic artifact.

      Um, don't tell her I said that, okay?

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    47. Re:America by operagost · · Score: 1

      Only in the UK would 50 miles be considered a "long distance".

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    48. Re:America by markhb · · Score: 1

      We are in the continent of Europe (as is Greenland). We are in the EU. We are not on the European mainland but neither is Iceland or Ireland, also both considered part of Europe (one even uses the Euro), and a few other places.

      Greenland is physically part of North America, not Europe. Politically, it is indeed part of Europe as a constituent country of the Kingdom of Denmark, but in terms of "which continent is it part of" North America is the right answer.

      Iceland, however, is both physically and politically part of Europe.

      --
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    49. Re:America by dave420 · · Score: 1

      If you could manage to choke down your hurt pride, you'd realise he was talking about the normal detritus of modern development rather than actual trash. But I think you knew that, but needed something to make yourself feel better ;)

    50. Re:America by njnnja · · Score: 2

      Oh come on. This post is so clearly wrong and makes me so upset that I just have to reply to it. I could show you a logical proof that refutes it, and based upon my vast experience I know that it surely isn't true. I await your reply so that I may provide a more detailed, point by point explanation that will convince you that my position is the correct one.

    51. Re:America by wired_parrot · · Score: 2

      It's not about the can tabs per se. The can tabs have changed often enough in design that the can tab design can be used to date sites from recent history. Their historical artifact status also makes them a useful proxy to protect sites like campgrounds or festival sites that otherwise have little in the way of artifacts. Both of these properties make them useful in dealing with recent historical sites from the last 50 years in both North America and Europe.

    52. Re:America by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Hell, it's 200 miles to get half-way across my country in it's narrowest dimension. We can do 450 miles for a long-weekend in Cornwall.

      As someone who lives in the UK and regularly visits Cornwall: it's a bloody long way and takes ages. I *also* used to live in the US and thought much less of travelling far larger distances.

      Then again crusing down the US 285 with cruise control set (tailgaiting and being tailgated by another car in the middle lane because that's how we roll in NM), one finger on the wheel and some good country music on the radio is really, really easy and causes little fatigue after hundreds of miles. Slogging through half a mile of Tooting bloody High Street on the way out of London is like trying to drive out of the 7th circle of hell and is about as tiring.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    53. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      450 miles is all?

      I can drive over 1400 miles and stay within my *province* (Windsor, ON to Red Lake, ON), without backtracking.

      Of course, for a proper driving trip, most Canadians go to the US (The Trans-Canada is not known for how inviting it is for family road trips, being that there's signs letting you know you're passing the last gas station for hundreds of kilometers---no, they're not fake). From Windsor, most families might visit Florida (probably Orlando). Shorter distance, too (1100 miles). Or if they don't want to stay overnight on the way there but still want a beach, Myrtle Beach (Just short of 800 miles).

      For day trips, I drive 100 miles to my favourite beach.

      100 miles really is nothing here.

    54. Re:America by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

      The difference between Europe and America: * In America 100 years is considered a long time

      I hear this shit all the time from Europeans. Oh your country is only 200 years old. Fucking racist, we had people here 30,000 years ago, just because they're a different colour doesn't mean it's less relevant.

      And ultimately we're all 2000th generation African, so we all share a common history. It's not like humans in this part of the world just popped out of thin air 200 years ago. Your 5000 year old relics are equally my 5000 year old relics, since their connection to either you or I is so equally distant.

      What kind of legacy did the native americans leave 2000-3000 years ago to civilisation ? The Romans built roads, acquaducts, conquered the known world, invented Roman Law (that underpins most non common law systems even today). The Chinese had similar accomplishments. The Greeks invented Democracy (although Greek democracy was different from modern day democracies), managed to conquer territories up to India , had great philosophers etc... American history starts in the 16 th fucking century with European explorers. Your nation comes into existence in the late 18th century. So yeah you're a young nation.

      Apparently you've never heard of tribes such as the Creeks, Alabamas, Natchez, Chitimachas and Choctaws. They left ruins of their civilizations, many older than the Romans, all over the American southeast. All the Southwest states contain countless ancient remains and Native American sites. In the Texas panhandle you can visit the Alibates Flint Quarries National Monument, which contains some ancient flint excavation pits thought to have been used for up to 12,000 years.

      --
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      --- Jerry Garcia
    55. Re:America by oobayly · · Score: 1
    56. Re:America by tbuskey · · Score: 1

      What kind of legacy did the native americans leave 2000-3000 years ago to civilisation ? The Romans built roads, acquaducts, conquered the known world, invented Roman Law (that underpins most non common law systems even today). The Chinese had similar accomplishments. The Greeks invented Democracy (although Greek democracy was different from modern day democracies), managed to conquer territories up to India , had great philosophers etc...

      Maize. It's probably the greatest example of genetic manipulation in history. Started ~ 10,000 years ago to produce the most productive grain on the planet.

      Potato. Wild potato were toxic. Domestication bred less toxic ones. Introduction of the potato into northern Europe helped eliminate famines from the failure of wheat crops.

      More recently, the ways and ideas of the native american tribes living in and around the colonists certainly influenced the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution of the United States and The Bill of Rights in the USA.

  4. Yeah by minkowski1976 · · Score: 0

    ..but the real historical question with respect to cans....who the fuck won the rock-a-rolla Cola Wars?

  5. I find lots of these "historic artifacts" by VMaN · · Score: 4, Funny

    As a metal detector user my historic artifact to junk ratio is going to get quite the boost...

    1. Re:I find lots of these "historic artifacts" by Bazman · · Score: 1

      Have you seen Detectorists?

      The full series was brilliant.

  6. Doesn't really bestow anything by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    A simple relic of 20th century life has taken on new meaning for archaeologists: The ring-tab beer can — first introduced 50 years ago — is now considered an historic-era artifact, a designation that bestows new significance on the old aluminum cans and their distinctive tabs that are still found across the country.

    Like people, things don't suddenly become more important or interesting just because they turned 50.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Doesn't really bestow anything by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      The difference is that with accelerating technology, things become of historical interest at a faster and faster rate.

    2. Re:Doesn't really bestow anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like everything, just because you don't find something interesting/good/whatever does not mean that for someone else it isn't.

    3. Re:Doesn't really bestow anything by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Why not? I did!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  7. UK is in Europe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > UK is in Europe.

    But I hear that's being fixed.

  8. It all depends on your perspective and imagination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Paleoanthropology Division
    Smithsonian Institute
    207 Pennsylvania Avenue
    Washington, DC 20078

    Dear Sir:

    Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labeled "211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post. Hominid skull." We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents "conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Charleston County two million years ago." Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, of the variety one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be the "Malibu Barbie". It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel that there are a number of physical attributes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to it's modern origin:

    1. The material is molded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilized bone.
    2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimeters, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids.
    3. The dentition pattern evident on the "skull" is more consistent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the "ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams" you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time. This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that:
    A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on.
    B. Clams don't have teeth.
    It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny your request to have the specimen carbon dated. This is partially due to the heavy load our lab must bear in it's normal operation, and partly due to carbon dating's notorious inaccuracy in fossils of recent geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, no Barbie dolls were produced prior to 1956 AD, and carbon dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results. Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the National Science Foundation's Phylogeny Department with the concept of assigning your specimen the scientific name "Australopithecus spiff-arino." Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted down because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and didn't really sound like it might be Latin.

    However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not a hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example of the great body of work you seem to accumulate here so effortlessly. You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf in his own office for the display of the specimens you have previously submitted to the Institution, and the entire staff speculates daily on what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you have discovered in your back yard. We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation's capital that you proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing the Director to pay for it. We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on your theories surrounding the "trans-positating fillifitation of ferrous ions in a structural matrix" that makes the excellent juvenile Tyrannosaurus rex femur you recently discovered take on the deceptive appearance of a rusty 9-mm Sears Craftsman automotive crescent wrench.

    Yours in Science,

    Harvey Rowe
    Curator, Antiquities

  9. "Historic Archaeological" Status...!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An American tourist visits my city Athens, Greece. He gets a taxi from the airport and asks a ride to his hotel. Trying to be hospitable, every time near some historic landmark the taxi driver described it with few fact, but the tourist always responded with an unimpressed "that's nothing for us in the States, we can build that in few days" - while passing the Parthenon the tourist ask about it and the taxi driver responds: "i don't anything about it, yesterday i was here but that thing did not existed...''.

  10. Pull-tab porn by Megane · · Score: 1

    Aluminum Cans The guy actually opens some vintage pull-tab cans... for SCIENCE!

    The Hackaday article that video was linked from

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  11. Thrown into holes by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    Keep in mind that these were thrown into holes (some deep) as well as left on the surface. Replacing some posts a few summers back, I ran into a lot of these with the beer cans they came from.

    1. Re:Thrown into holes by Arnold+Reinhold · · Score: 1

      Ancient people threw their trash into holes as well. It is a problem archeologists deal with all the time and one of the reasons sites are excavated and documented very carefully.

  12. Aluminum cans? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

    "bestows new significance on the old aluminum cans"

    I'm not sure that those ALUMINUM pull rings are fifty years old. Steel, yes, I suppose so. They've been around for most of my life. I remember people still used can openers to open their sodas and beers when I was a kid, sometime around 9 to 12 years old, I started seeing pull rings. But, the macho men and the big kids were still crushing their empty cans to demonstrate how many muscles they had between their ears. Aluminum cans became a thing when I was already a teen.

    Or, maybe memory serves me poorly. Actually, I think that soda was still marketed in bottles until I was a teen. It was just the beer drinkers who had those pull rings. But I'm quite sure that I saw no aluminum cans until around '67, '68, or maybe even a little later.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    1. Re:Aluminum cans? by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      Your memory serves you well, the aluminium cans did not take off until the late 70's early 80's when the technology needed to recycle them was invented.

      Disclosure: one of the inventors on that patent is my father, his other research was in solar panels, ocean thermal engery (otec), the aluminum air battery , the use of adhesively bonded aluminum structures such as the Jaguar XJ and hybrid diesel electric vehicles.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    2. Re:Aluminum cans? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      But, the macho men and the big kids were still crushing their empty cans to demonstrate how many muscles they had between their ears.

      The can-crushing scene from Jaws was actually a fairly significant event in the relationship between Quint and Hooper when the movie came out (only strong men could crush steel beer cans with one hand, and Hooper is showing he's not intimidated by Quint's physical strength). To modern audiences who've lived with nothing but aluminum cans, it seems pointless and almost comical.

    3. Re:Aluminum cans? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Uh-huh - that is right.

      My own experience with crushing cans? I was a runt, so I didn't crush cans when I was a kid. Not even when I was a "big kid" in high school. I joined the Navy in '75, made a couple cruises, and during that time, aluminum cans became ubiquitous. (The Navy had them everywhere, at least.) I came home one summer weekend, and visited an uncle's bar. There were a couple people in there that I knew from high school - one growing fat and soft, another who looked pretty good shape. We all had Iron City beers, which were still in steel cans. Fat guy crushed his can with some strain. The other guy crushed his with less strain. These guys were jocks in high school - they used to crush those cans effortlessly. Me? The runt? I never could crush those cans with one hand. Imagine my own surprise, when I actually crushed that stupid steel can, apparently with less effort than either of the other guys.

      Yes, it took either strength, or real effort to crush those steel cans. Personally, I didn't have that strength until I was about 22 or 23, with a few years of hard life at sea behind me.

      And, I'm sitting here, right this moment, wondering If I could crush a can today. No - I'm not as strong as I was back in '78, '79, and '80. I developed even more muscle after I got out of the Navy, but the past decade has been pretty sedentary, and I'm not in the same shape anymore.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  13. By inference by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    So by inference, Jimmy Buffet (Margaritus Flipfloppus) is now archeologically significant as well.

  14. Video on making beverage cans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's a video on the design and manufacture of beverage cans, which includes descriptions of how cans have been opened for use.

    http://www.tested.com/tech/522084-how-and-why-aluminum-cans/

  15. Ignorance about America by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Only in America could something only 50 years old be considered an "historic" artefact, archaeologically.

    Only people who lack comprehension of history would be so arrogant as to think something has to pass an arbitrarily long age to be of historic interest. I used to own an auction company so I've been a dealer in historic artifacts. Some stuff is historically interesting even though it isn't very old. Other stuff is very old and of very little historical interest or significance.

    That's the 1960's, people. Elsewhere, it's not even considered antique unless it's from 1915 or before

    The word antique has no specific connotation of date or time. It simply means old. The exact date is irrelevant.

    This is what happens when you have only 500 years of recorded history and ignore anything that happened before then.

    Oh well I guess we should all feel inferior because our history wasn't written down as well on this side of the pond. [/sarcasm] People were here 20,000+ years ago and it doesn't get ignored. We simply don't know as much about them because there is less data available. Go study the Mayan ruins or Cahokia mounds and then tell us again how there is nothing of archeological interest over here.

    I watched Time Team once, where they do an archaeological dig live on TV, The American episode was so dull because they basically couldn't touch anything. All the "history" was the top inch of soil.

    Then they were digging in the wrong place. There are tens of thousands of years of history here if you actually know what you are doing and where to look.

    1. Re:Ignorance about America by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You conveniently missed the part of his posting where he said archaeologically historical. He kind of has a point.

  16. aluminum cans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those old pull tab cans were steel.

    1. Re:aluminum cans by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      aluminum beverage cans started in the late 50s, the tinplate steel was phased out for that but continued for other foods

  17. European vs American History by sjbe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Give me a break, it's not hard to date American campgrounds. The whole damn country is less than 250 years old. You guys act like we're carbon dating shit here.

    We ARE carbon dating things on this side of the pond. American history goes back WAY before Columbus wandered across the Atlantic.

    The United States as a nation-state may not go back quite as far as some European countries but only a racist idiot would think that history is just the documented history of white people of European heritage. People have been in the Americas for 20,000+ years. And the United Kingdom as we know it today is barely older than the USA so don't get so high and might about how deep European history is.

    1. Re:European vs American History by EmeraldBot · · Score: 4, Informative

      Give me a break, it's not hard to date American campgrounds. The whole damn country is less than 250 years old. You guys act like we're carbon dating shit here.

      We ARE carbon dating things on this side of the pond. American history goes back WAY before Columbus wandered across the Atlantic.

      The United States as a nation-state may not go back quite as far as some European countries but only a racist idiot would think that history is just the documented history of white people of European heritage. People have been in the Americas for 20,000+ years. And the United Kingdom as we know it today is barely older than the USA so don't get so high and might about how deep European history is.

      But this article specifically mentions beer tabs, which just turned 50 years old, and have nothing to do with the Native Americans. Unless I'm missing something here...

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    2. Re:European vs American History by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I kinda miss the old pull tabs.

      My roommate in college had a chain he'd made of them, it would run from the roof of the dorm to and out into the parking lot a good ways.

      I think our dorm was at least 15 floor or so....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re: European vs American History by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You insensitive clod, I'm a Native American and I love drinking beer at campsites!

    4. Re:European vs American History by dave420 · · Score: 1

      The United Kingdom, perhaps, but you should see how old the countries of the British Isles are :) European history is deep. Really really deep. For example, the town I grew up in was inhabited for the last ~9,000 years. But whatever lets you sleep at night, I guess.

    5. Re:European vs American History by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Americas have plenty of very old cities. It's just mostly not the natives that occupy them anymore. You forget that it was people from your country that originally started displacing the natives in what was to become the United States, especially the coastal regions. Ahh English colonizers...

    6. Re:European vs American History by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you don't miss stepping on them with bare feet.

      I sure don't!

    7. Re:European vs American History by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only a racist idiot would think that history is just the documented history of white people of European heritage

      Where exactly did geekmux mention white people of European heritage? All I saw was talk about the history of this country, which is a mix of heritages from all around the globe. And the history of this country does go back only 250 years or so (depending on how far back you wish to go from when the USA was officially founded).

      Now the way I see it, there are two possibilities here.
      1) You misread country for continent.
      2) You are the racist idiot, trying to force things to be about race when no one else brought up race and race doesn't belong at all.

  18. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even that is stuff nearly twice as old as this and of vital historical importance.

    How so?

    I mean, ignoring the 'died in a war' bit, because human remains are always going to be of more importance than human trash.

    Perhaps if we had American kleptomania involved in the old days, we'd have nice museums of everything and wouldn't need to go digging through the Alps for things of historical importance.

  19. Still used by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the Harbin 500ml beer cans in China there's still an oldskool tab. Hah. I remember those when I was a kid in the early 80's, you could break it in two parts and then shoot the ring away.

  20. Age of the USA trolls from Europe by sjbe · · Score: 2

    But this article specifically mentions beer tabs, which just turned 50 years old, and have nothing to do with the Native Americans. Unless I'm missing something here...

    You're missing the fact that someone used the fact that pull tabs aren't actually terribly old to get in an irrelevant troll about how the USA isn't that old itself compared with Europe, conveniently forgetting that the history of the Americas goes way back before Europeans got involved.

    1. Re:Age of the USA trolls from Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes yes, a history that goes "way back" but is empty of any events of consequence.

      Europe has periods like that. Nobody cares about those periods. "Oh, for 840 years this hill had a bunch of people living on it, mostly farming and shit, nothing much happened". Boring. "Now here, in sixteen years they built a castle largely of wood to defend the river. Twenty three years later a group from over the other side of that sea attacked the castle, destroying it, and raided a town upstream, but then fifty years after that they re-built the castle, with a different design and using stone. This time it was garrisoned by people from a neighbouring town because of the threat of invasion from over those hills there. It was under siege forty years after that, but the attackers had a disease outbreak and besieged defenders broke out, killing them". Fascinating.

      A thousand years of native Americans making nothing that lasted and keeping no records worth the name is a thousand empty years.

    2. Re:Age of the USA trolls from Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the 13th century AD Europe's political centres were upgrading their stone castles (many of which still exist today) and creating lots of documents as well as artefacts. They were smelting, working metals, building stained glass windows for their buildings, importing sophisticated pottery techniques...

      In the 13th century AD the most advanced native Americans still thought piles of mud were fucking awesome. An artificial hill with a wooden house on it was the state of the art. They had no writing, and the artefacts being produced are largely mundane, containers, some basic farm tools that sort of thing.

      Now you know, maybe the lives of those mud pile makers were really fascinating, but they're lost in time.

      Native American history is either open speculation "Maybe this happened, but there's no evidence whatsoever" or it's reduced to a few hundred pages of archeological notes and half-remembered folk stories. In contrast Europe has all those fucking castles and other old buildings, filled with actual stuff and written documents dating back hundreds and sometimes thousands of years.

    3. Re:Age of the USA trolls from Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you've never heard of Cahokia?

  21. Re:It all depends on your perspective and imaginat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is one of my favourite posts in recent memory, kudos!

  22. Still alive and kicking in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that's quite funny, considering that such cans are still very common here in China - remember, China is the future! ;)

  23. I remember the cans before tabs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where you needed to punch a small hole on one side and a large hole on the other. They were tin cans for soda and beer.

    1. Re:I remember the cans before tabs... by slashdice · · Score: 1

      Yep... and two holes are better than one -- when it comes to shotgunning and fucking!

      --
      Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
  24. Um, look like the idiot. by publiclurker · · Score: 1

    since you don't seem to be able to figure out that people have been having campsites as long as they have been people.

  25. Where did all those toolings go? China! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    They all went to China. Beers, sodas, juice drinks - so many use disposable pull tab tops. And they're the original US toolings that were pumping them out in the 70s and 80s. How do I know? Because the top of the can is still embossed with English, just like back in the day. Newer toolings (China sourced) are all in Mandarin, but you still see a lot of those older toolings used to stamp the pull tabs - English embossed and all!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  26. what the fuck? by slashdice · · Score: 1

    First off, that should be "a historic". The author is clearly not a native speaker and it's slightly painful to read but I digress. The real what the fuck is:

    As an example, Schroeder cited a site that a colleague has been investigating in Washington: a campground that became one of the first major meeting places for the gay and lesbian community in the Northwest in the 1970s.

    “The site may well be eligible to the National Register of Historic Places as a Traditional Cultural Property,” Schroeder said.

    Why is it every time some homos get together for an AIDs fuck fest (basically, any time, anywhere), somebody wants to call it an (sic) historic site? It should be closed down as a toxic biological waste site and made eligible for superfund clean up.

    You know, on second thought, I guess that will make the geek compound and slashdot PT cruiser historical, too! (Fun fact: the first slashdot PT Cruiser wasn't even a PT Cruiser -- it was Jon Katz's van -- he cruised for Pre-Teens.)

    --
    Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
  27. Margaritaville by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    "...Blew out my flip flop. Stepped on a pop top. Cut my heel, had to cruise on back home..."

    You couldn't write Margaritaville today.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
  28. The Tenth Doctor said by storkus · · Score: 1

    "I'm a time traveller. I point and laugh at archaeologists!" (TV: Silence in the Library)

  29. When does "history" start? by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    A response to those who complained (or bragged) that events of 50 years ago aren't "history", for whatever sincere or insincere reasons you gave, a reminder: history keeps happening. They will be history someday, if they aren't now.

    When you are 100 years in your grave, those pull-tabs and their cans could still be helping historians and archaeologists figure things out, perhaps in ways that we can't begin to imagine.

    Who would have thought fifty years ago that isotope ratios in human remains could tell us about diet? Or that unexpected things could be learned from textual or statistical analysis of digitized old public records? (Or that there would *be* massive amounts of digitized old public records?)

    A little perspective might be helpful about now. And perhaps some humility.

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.