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UK Police Chief: Some Tech Companies Are 'Friendly To Terrorists'

An anonymous reader points out comments from Mark Rowley, the UK's national police lead for counter-terrorism, who thinks tech companies aren't doing enough to prevent terrorists from using their services. He said, "[The acceleration of technology] can be set up in a way which is friendly to terrorists and helps them ... and creates challenges for law enforcement and intelligence agencies. Or it can be set up in a way which doesn't do that." Rowley wouldn't name which companies in particular he's talking about, but he added, "Snowden has created an environment where some technology companies are less comfortable working with law reinforcement and intelligence agencies and the bad guys are better informed. We all love the benefit of the internet and all the rest of it, but we need their support in making sure that they're doing everything possible to stop their technology being exploited by terrorists. I'm saying that needs to be front and center of their thinking and for some it is and some it isn't."

18 of 230 comments (clear)

  1. Talk about blaming the messenger by Chatsubo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does one really have to state the obvious? Snowden didn't "create" anything.

    Companies don't find those entities untrustworthy because Snowden reported it, they find them untrustworthy because it turns out they are untrustworthy. If Snowden didn't report it they would've found it out eventually some other way.

    --
    > no, yes, maybe (tagging beta)
    1. Re:Talk about blaming the messenger by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's part of the "system". Therefore, his view is that anyone who isn't directly supporting the "system" is opposing it. Which means you're opposing him and the "good" work that he is doing. You are friendly to the "terrorists".

      "Terrorists" in this case being defined as anyone Mark Rowley does not agree with.

      Personally, I think that there are far more corrupt cops and corrupt politicians and so on who would abuse their authority than there are terrorists who can attack us.

    2. Re:Talk about blaming the messenger by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Funny

      Personally, I think that there are far more corrupt cops and corrupt politicians and so on who would abuse their authority than there are terrorists who can attack us.

      Nice job, asshole. You're letting the terrists win. If WE say THEY are The Bad Guys(TM), then they're The Bad Guys, end of discussion. We have to keep data on everyone, just to keep The Bad Guys in check, and to keep YOU safe. Also, we need to be able to drone-strike any civilian at any point on the planet to protect your children and puppies and kittens from being indiscriminately killed by religious extremists living a Middle Ages lifestyle on the other side of the planet.

  2. F Mark Rowley by putaro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I regard the threat to my privacy and civil liberty by criminals like Mark Rowley as much more significant than that posed by terrorists. Snowden didn't make companies add more encryption. Overreach by government agencies caused it. They're just trying to shoot the messenger but they created the problem by circumventing or ignoring the law.

    1. Re:F Mark Rowley by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're just trying to shoot the messenger but they created the problem by circumventing or ignoring the law.

      The real problem here - And finish reading this post before you start shooting at me - Rowley has it absolutely correct. Tech companies do behave in ways friendly to terrorists.

      Except, he has committed a fundamental attribution error by assuming they do in support of actual terrorism. Tech companies don't support terrorism - They support fairness, they support security, they support usability, for everyone. Unfortunately, "safe" and "secure" includes "from government tampering", and "fair" and "everyone" includes terrorists.

      If the encryption software I use doesn't block all attempts to intercept my data, whether by flaw or by design, I will use something that does. Simple as that. Tech companies behave in ways friendly to terrorists because tech companies can't readily discriminate between the actions of crackers and governments, between privacy advocates and terrorists, between a legal court-ordered wiretap and an NSA hijacking - Nor should they.

  3. Re:Benjamin Franklin got it right by NicBenjamin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He never actually said that. The "liberty" was "essential liberties," and the security was "a little, temporary safety." Which completely changes the meaning of the sentence from don't-think-authority-BAD to a desire for critical thinking and balance between the needs of everyone as a whole (ie: the government in a democracy) and the needs of the individual.

    Which makes sense if you look at what he actually did. Prior to the US Constitution there was no actual Federal government, there was a late-18th-century version of the UN Security Council called Congress. In theory it was supreme in many matters, but without it's own bureaucracy/Army/etc. it had trouble doing things like convincing Connecticut to give up it's claim to Chicago. This anti-freedom monster everyone worries about (the Federal government) was actually created by him at the Constitutional Convention. The Articles of Confederation government was unable to provide any "safety" from being reconquered by the Brits, largely because it couldn't directly affect anyone's individual liberty. It could not even tax you directly, it had to convince your state to do that, and then turn over the money to Congress.

  4. Define 'Terrorists' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Saudi Arabia indiscriminately bombed Yemen for 3 weeks, untold number of civilians were killed

    Saudi claims that the Houthis are the terrorists, but to the residents in Yemen who have their domiciles bombed and family members killed, the Saudis are the terrorists

    Hamas launched their rockets into Israel, Israel retaliates with full scale massive military campaign --- Gaza Strip almost flattened as a result

    While Hamas are terrorists (nobody can deny it) the Israelis are also not that 'non-terrorists' either

    Now, let me ask you guys ... who supply the Israelis and the Saudis with the bombs?

    So this guy in London is saying that ISP is 'terrorist friendly' --- but of course, many ISPs around the world are in very good terms with Uncle Sam, the supply of bombs to both Saudi Arabia and to Israel

    1. Re:Define 'Terrorists' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forgot to add that if Hamas was playing by the US of A rules they would be called freedom fighters for peace justice and democracy... not terrorists...

    2. Re:Define 'Terrorists' by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hamas launched their rockets into Israel, Israel retaliates with full scale massive military campaign --- Gaza Strip almost flattened as a result. While Hamas are terrorists (nobody can deny it) the Israelis are also not that 'non-terrorists' either

      How did the US retaliate when Al Qaeda attacked them? How many Afghans were killed in that campaign, and how long did it last?

      How did the US retaliate when Iraq attacked them? How many Iraqis were killed in that campaign, and how long did it last? For that matter, exactly _when_ did Iraq attack the US?

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    3. Re: Define 'Terrorists' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Iraq didn't attack the USA. The USA used 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq. After (some of) the people caught on, they used WMDs as an excuse. After some more people caught on, they switched to using "spreading democracy" as an excuse. Of course, the real reason had to do with oil and getting Halliburton rich, but most of the public still believes the democracy ruse.

      As for Afghanistan, we didn't really do anything to them. Sure, we got Bin Laden, but by that time he was almost dead anyway and that was just for political posturing by Obama, not to stop any real threat.

    4. Re:Define 'Terrorists' by stealth_finger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forgot to add that if Hamas was playing by the US of A rules they would be called freedom fighters for peace justice and democracy... not terrorists...

      Just like the brave, glorious Afghan mujahedeen that where fighting for their freedom against the vile Russian invaders. Everyone knows the rest.

      --
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    5. Re: Define 'Terrorists' by stealth_finger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As for Afghanistan, we didn't really do anything to them. Sure, we got Bin Laden, but by that time he was almost dead anyway and that was just for political posturing by Obama, not to stop any real threat.

      Did you miss the whole war in Afghanistan? Quite a bit happened before the seals choppered into a complex then shot him and dumped his body in the ocean. Is anyone even sure that happened, if it did I doubt it did the way they say it did..

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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    6. Re:Define 'Terrorists' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're deliberately distorting and misrepresenting the text of 1441. 1441 required that Iraq comply with weapons inspections. Those inspections took place and no WMDs were found, up to the point that the US decided to say "fuck it" to the UN and go to war. The US was the one who championed going to war with Iraq, not the UN, and the UN rejected the use of force against Iraq.

    7. Re:Define 'Terrorists' by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Israel didn't start it, Hamas did.

      No. The UK started it with the Balfour Declaration, then the Zionist Organization followed by with an invasion. Arabs started to resist the invasion, and the cycle began, with many sins since then by many players. But the origin was British colonialism and Jewish millenarianism. And the recent and ongoing brutality has been primarily of Israeli origin.

      Who are the terrorists? The ones launching cowardly, hidden attacks, or the ones defending themselves?

      There is nothing "cowardly" about hiding. That's how you win a battle. It's why we invented camouflage. That's the same charge the British leveled against American colonial fighters, that they wouldn't stand out in the open wearing bright colors and be shot like Real Men.

      And the Palestinians have been on the defensive since 1917, that's the historical fact.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    8. Re:Define 'Terrorists' by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While Hamas are terrorists (nobody can deny it) the Israelis are also not that 'non-terrorists' either

      No, they're not terrorists. Retaliating against murderous ideologues, and removing their ability to kill, is not terrorism. Maybe you'll learn that someday.

      You understand that that's the way Hamas views Israel, right? I'm just saying, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    9. Re: Define 'Terrorists' by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Halliburton reasoning is as tired as the WMD reasoning. The real reason we went into Iraq is because sanctions were failing, countries were wanting to pull out of them after a decade of them failing to cause Saddam to be overthrown, and we wanted to take a mulligan and try again.

      The reason we went into Iraq is that our government regretted leaving Saddam Hussein in power and were determined to correct the mistake. 9/11 provided the best possible cover for that. Contrary to popular opinion, politicians aren't exactly the same as marionettes that dance on the strings of corporations. There is definitely conflict of interest, but the politicians had a very specific idea of how they think the world needs to look. That is why they got into politics to begin with. The ability to exercise power by politicians who were hoping to change the world is why we went into Iraq, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. That's worth more to a politician than a billion dollars in campaign funds, because they only take the billion so that they get the chance to do things like start wars or make a name for themselves as peace brokers.

      They thought that they could overthrow Saddam and realign the Middle East more firmly in the US camp by dint of freeing the population, who would be duly grateful. The miscalculation was that even if such a thing was possible in 1991, it wasn't going to happen in 2003. Sadly, I think the problem with the war and its outcome was that it was insufficiently cold-blooded in approach. We didn't do the math, and we clearly didn't understand the facts on the ground. It has every hallmark of the use of a professional military to create a situation that was completely bungled in the hands of the politicians it was handed off to. As a conspiracy, it was a poor one. As some politician's wish fulfillment, it makes perfect sense.

  5. Not just the tech industry either by Floyd-ATC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Car manufacturers aren't doing enough to prevent terrorists from driving cars. Oil companies aren't doing enough to prevent terrorists from using diesel and petrol. Food companies aren't doing enough to prevent terrorists from eating food. Pencil manufacturers aren't doing enough to prevent terrorists from writing. Shoe manufacturers aren't doing enough to prevent terrorists from walking. I could go on but I won't. He probably will. Snowden has made a few more people aware of the fact that many people who work in law enforcement agencies and intelligence services think they have a right to ignore the law. Particularly the law in other countries.

    --
    Time flies when you don't know what you're doing
  6. Re: anon by monkeyzoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...but we need their support in making sure that they're doing everything possible to stop their technology being exploited by terrorists. I'm saying that needs to be front and center....

    And I'm saying we need their support in making sure that they're doing everything possible to stop their technology being exploited by tyrannical mass-surveillance states that use the justification of "terrorism" to develop their ability to oppress their populations. I'm saying that needs to be front and center!