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Santa Clara County Opts Against Buying Stingray Due To Excessive Secrecy

Posted by samzenpus on from the no-tracking-you dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The Santa Clara County (California) Board of Supervisors voted in February to acquire a Stingray device for the sheriff's office. However, the subsequent negotiations with Harris Corp. required such a level of secrecy that the county announced that it will forego the $500,000 grant and not buy the device. In a memo released Wednesday, the County Executive's Office said "after lengthy negotiations regarding contract terms, including business and legal issues," an agreement could not be reached with the manufacturer, the Harris Corp. As a result, "the system will not be purchased at this time," and the work group focused on drafting a use policy will be disbanded.

24 of 39 comments (clear)

  1. Good job boys by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 2

    Use your FOI powers and join the Transparency Toolkit.

  2. What they mean is by Captain+Hook · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After a number of high profile cases have been dropped due to prosecutors not being allowed to explain how the device works in court. It's become a very expensive evidence gathering tool which can't be used to collect usable evidence.

    This isn't a blow against secret terms of use, it's a business decision to not buy something which can't be used for it's intended purpose.

    --
    These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    1. Re:What they mean is by peragrin · · Score: 1

      No Santa Clara county will just borrow one of the FBI units and not tell people it was used. You aren't being paranoid enough.

      Personally I am waiting for a really high profile case to be dropped because of it. Right now all you have to do is force the police to disclose how they tracked you and they start dropping cases.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:What they mean is by geekmux · · Score: 1

      After a number of high profile cases have been dropped due to prosecutors not being allowed to explain how the device works in court. It's become a very expensive evidence gathering tool which can't be used to collect usable evidence.

      This isn't a blow against secret terms of use, it's a business decision to not buy something which can't be used for it's intended purpose.

      Are you certain dragging innocent citizens into a courtroom and milking them for thousands to fleece the pockets of various members of the legal community isn't in fact the intended purpose?

      It's become a very expensive evidence gathering tool that also happens to generate hundreds of thousands of dollars for the legal system, legal or otherwise. So far this county seemingly doesn't want to play along, but I question the other 99% of the country that has no qualms using it.

    3. Re:What they mean is by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No Santa Clara county will just borrow one of the FBI units and not tell people it was used.

      That is one of the first things I thought when I read the article too.

      The headline should probably be something more along the lines of "Santa Clara County Opts Against Buying Stingray... decides on competing RingStay brand."

      Because these toys are too useful and make data-collection far far too easy for them to give it up. They'll use some other brand, or a device that works similarly (but not exactly) like Stingrays, or hire outside agencies (who /do/ purchase Stingrays) to do the call-interception for them, but you can be sure that ultimately there won't be any real improvement.

      Instead they will pass on half-truths to placate the public whom they are supposed to serve to hide the fact they are continuing the behavior we find upsetting.

      And then wonder why public trust in them continues to decline.

    4. Re:What they mean is by geekmux · · Score: 1

      milking them for thousands to fleece the pockets of various members of the legal community

      You do realize "to fleece" mean "to scam" right? ...

      You do realize "to fleece the pockets means "to line" right?

  3. Strange times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It is news, when the government does the right thing.

    1. Re:Strange times by geekmux · · Score: 1

      It is news, when the government does the right thing.

      Even stranger times when citizens believe them.

      Let's just say this particular organization has become infamous for saying one thing, and doing another.

  4. "...at this time" by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    baby better come back later next week

  5. They will just borrow one by whoever57 · · Score: 2

    Much of Santa Clara County is in the City of San Jose. What do you want to bet that San Jose has at least one?

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  6. See? The free market solution DOES work! by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

    If companies act like evil fucks, customers will go elsewhere.

  7. Maggots, Michael... by Guy+From+V · · Score: 1

    I have video evidence from the 80s that this town's bureaucrats and law enforcement organizations are controlled by an undead motorcycle gang. This move is obviously meant to manipulate the emotions of their human herd as to engender positive emotions meant to attract more visitors and residents, therefore increasing their food supply.

    Oh, wait...

  8. Excessive secrecy? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    There are cut-away plans on the web

  9. bravo! by v1 · · Score: 1

    privacy issues aside, it's refreshing to occasionally see any government group not rubberstamp any expense that they don't have to worry about paying for. "We can't use this, we're not going to buy it." "but, but... it's so SHINY!"

    So now I think we're up to something like... Common Sense: 5 - SNAFU: 885,236

    Grant or no grant, that money doesn't just get tossed in a fire if it's not spent. It'll get repurposed somehow, somewhere, maybe by someone else but for public benefit, and hopefully into something more useful and less harmful to the public.

    (hopefully we don't hear a shout from the grant people, "so... does somebody else want a free Stingray?")

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  10. Seriously? $500,000 for one of these things? by DoctorBonzo · · Score: 2

    What hardware could be worth that amount?

    Must be a pretty big mark-up.

  11. Re:Seriously? $500,000 for one of these things? by geekmux · · Score: 2

    What hardware could be worth that amount?

    Must be a pretty big mark-up.

    Who said government customers give a shit about what that price is? It's not their money.

    And of course there's huge mark-up. That's because Harris knows damn well what kind of legal revenue can be generated from one of these things. I wouldn't be surprised if the ROI on this is less than 6 months.

  12. Harris contract terms ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1. Deny that you are buying stingray.
    2. Buy stingray.
    3. Use stingray to track innocent people.
    4. Profit.

  13. The thing I can't stand about Santa Clara by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    Is all the damn vampires.

    Okay, okay, actually that was the fictional town of Santa Carla, but that's a mere anagram away.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt00...

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  14. Re:Seriously? $500,000 for one of these things? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Next gen, no drop to older networking standards. Data out, voice out, mapping playback :)

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  15. There are others by PPH · · Score: 1

    Harris isn't the only vendor. And there are other IMSI catchers available. Some may have different and more user friendly NDAs attached to their sale.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  16. Re:Seriously? $500,000 for one of these things? by countSudoku() · · Score: 1

    Smoke and mirrors. It's a fancy butt-set with nmap strapped onto it! Harris is not in possession of anything magical, it's just a bunch of lawyers surrounding what in essence is a jumped-up Sniffer, but if that "secret" got out, who the hell would buy it then?

    --
    This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
  17. Re:Seriously? $500,000 for one of these things? by Holi · · Score: 1

    it's $68,479 for the original Stingray and $134,952 for Stingray II. Granted that does not include everything else required, https://publicintelligence.net... shows a nice price list for the accessories.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  18. FCC issues by slickwillie · · Score: 1

    So how do Stingray users get around the FCC transmitter license?

  19. WTF is the Stingray by crazyvas · · Score: 2

    Thanks editors, for explaining it.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/cri...

    From the link above:
    The technology in question [...] is a suitcase-sized device that mimics a cellphone tower to connect with all phones in a specific area. [...] Sheriff's officials said it will be used purely to locate the subject of an investigation since it can find a phone through walls, even if the owner isn't making a call.