Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft-Backed Think Tank: K-12 CS Education Cure For Sagging US Productivity
theodp writes: On May 6, notes think tank Brookings, the Department of Labor released labor productivity data showing that output per worker fell by 1.9 percent during the first quarter of 2015. But fear not — the Metropolitan Policy Program of [Microsoft-backed] Brookings says K-12 computer science education is the cure for what ails U.S. productivity: "So how can the United States reverse this trend? First, states, metropolitan areas, and school districts must recognize that basic digital literacy is no longer sufficient preparation for the 21st century workforce. Familiarity with higher-level skills such as coding will be critical as the role of technology continues to grow. The 60-plus school districts that have partnered with [Microsoft-backed] Code.org have already begun to move in this direction. By introducing students to computer science fundamentals early on, Code.org and its partner districts will help get more people on pathways to well-paying jobs in computer programming and other fields." Creating a national K-12 CS and tech immigration crisis was proposed as Microsoft introduced its 'two-pronged' National Talent Strategy to increase K-12 CS education and the number of H-1B visas at a Brookings event in 2012. While creating a K-12 CS crisis fell to Code.org, fanning the flames of a tech immigration crisis is the purvey of [Microsoft exec-backed] FWD.us, the PAC formed by Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, which recently sent an email blast warning U.S. citizens they're in 'A Gigantic Global Talent War', adding that China and India citizens are "just laughing [at the US], saying it's so easy to pick from you guys... we just take all the talent."
... is any level of western education going to make it cost-competitive to those at the distant ends of the ethernet cable? Better to help them improve their lifestyles such that they insource to western neighborhoods...
it'll all be robots before this idea works.
It is pretty obvious to me that our country's productivity and economy in general will improve if we improve CS based education. But that is simply because increasing education in general will help our economy. There are very few ways a country can actually invest in its economy in the long term. Improving education. increasing funding of both private and public research, and improving infrastructure are the only ways that come to mind.
So while improving CS education is a great idea, I see no reason why it needs to be singled out.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
China and India are hellholes. If we try to match them, the US will be one as well.
We now know that virtually all productivity gains go to the top 1%, there is no incentive to increase productivity if it all goes to our masters.
To encourage a kid to go into a CS is a mean thing to do. Congress will continue to fall over themselves ever expanding the H1B program. Companies will love them right when they get out of college, but they will not pay above a certain salary - the same way a fast food joint doesn't. Then when they reach 40 years old they will be thrown on the human waste pile for not having "current" skills or not willing to put in 80 hour weeks with Mountain Dew and Hot Pockets. Like all the other recent college graduates are or newly arrived H1Bs. Then they'll be lucky to get a $10/hour job at a call center or target.
If you love a kid, encourage them to become a plumber. if they want to do programming, it can be the hobby that they can do out of love for an open source project.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
which recently sent an email blast warning U.S. citizens they're in 'A Gigantic Global Talent War'
Who comes up with terms like "email blast" and why are Slashdot submitters repeating them? Can we please eliminate stupid marketing terms like that at Slashdot, of all places?
Who is making this shit up? And why is anyone believing it?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Usually Brookings releases sensible, independent analyses based on facts. Anyone familiar with the business practices of microsquid knows what's happened here.
Yes I know they're good at math and CS scores and more willing to accept longer work hours and less payment, but what else? There is no world-class software company or any organization of the field in China or India, except the Chinese cyber army maybe. And so far they haven't made anything significant yet, commercial or open-sourced.
What kind of talent are they looking for exactly? How many of those H-1Bs could possibly be helpful in key areas such as Microsoft Research, the kind of place which actually needs talents to run? Or they're just looking for cheap programmers to write stupid facebook games?
I'm starting to feel like Slashdot is a religious website pushing for converts, what with all the posts about needing more women in engineering and CS and also saying that elementary and high schools need to focus more on programming. I guess that would classify this as a universalizing religion.
In my experience, even people who choose engineering and the like as a career path often aren't that intelligent. Schooling doesn't necessarily make you a good programmer or anything else. One might consider that a lack of talent, and perhaps it is. Maybe what they need to become truly great in these areas can be taught, but adding CS programs to schools isn't going to help that, and I think you'll find a general lack of interest and incompetence.
I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest that the endemic problems with the US educational system extend somewhat broader and deeper than "we don't teach kindergartners to code".
-Styopa
...output per worker fell by 1.9 percent during the first quarter of 2015.
Because the current/remaining employees are being ridden hard and put away wet. Employers are squeezing what they have, instead of hiring, to be "competitive" - even though profits are up and shareholders are happy. Or it could be because of things like this: Georgia Businessman Refuses to Hire Until Obama Is Fired (there are others):
Bill Looman, owner of U.S. Cranes LLC, said he is fed up with the bad economy and D.C. politicians who do nothing to solve the problem. So until there is a change of leadership, his company trucks will bear the message: “New Company Policy: We Are Not Hiring Until Obama Is Gone.”
Or that that the top priority of Mitch McConnell and the GOP was/is to make Obama a one-term president (which didn't go so well) and prevent any successes for the President or the Democrats - instead of actually working to fix the Economy. (Yes, the Dems are a problem too, but mainly because they're inept, not actively evil, hostile and uncaring toward those who are not rich, old, white and male - like the Republicans.)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Computer Science Programs aren't the cure for much of anything -- so stop trying to make them out to be. By doing so, you are DOING ACTUAL HARM to our already broken education system and to the students who will be subjected to these asinine policies.
You want to know what ails US productivity? Being raised by over-protective parents who are scared to death of being thrown in jail if they so much as let their children walk to school unattended, much less play outside on their own, who are given rewards and told how special they are for just showing up at the soccer match, are told to be busy little worker bees at school, to get good grades if they want to have a career, who then go to college, put themselves deep in debt to pay for that education and find that that MBA that they thought would make them just like Gordon Gekko and wealthy beyond belief has netted them a job as a "Sales Representative" at Comcast.
And after all that, they watch as the costs of rent and groceries keeps going up year after year. And that they are struggling to survive in a society that treats it's unemployed and homeless as pariahs. A society where the Local Governments are creating more and more Municipal Infractions with higher and higher fines to charge them with and even sending people to jail over non-payment of debts and/or subjecting them to predatory "payment programs" via private companies who manage to turn a $100 fine into a $1000 profit. A society where their very employers are charging higher and higher prices for goods and services locally, while they practically give away their products "emerging markets" all in the name of globalization -- while laying off their co-workers and either off-shoring operations or importing H1-B workers who live in a corporate squat house. A society where Martha Stewart is thrown in Camp Cupcake for acting on a stock tip given by a friend over dinner -- but where the DoJ chooses not to prosecute practically the entirety of Congress for Insider Trading for acting on the litany of illegal stock tips given by Lobbyists on a daily basis -- where that same Congress then passes a law legalizing Insider trading for them and them alone
And then it really sets in -- everything really hits home. They finally get a crystal clear understanding of what the term "wage slave" means. And that yes -- they are indeed a slave and it's no laughing matter or petty issue. Because you find you are an actual fucking slave. Tied down by shackles made of debt, credit ratings and the need to get by in a society that does not take care of it's own, were they are not equal under law, where the law is against them while giving a complete pass on the crimes of the wealthy and where it's "I got mine, go get yours you lazy slob" while the Corporations and Government work hand in hand to squeeze every last bit of money from the lower classes until there is nothing left but the ultra-wealthy and "the scum"
And that's where this Think Tank supports -- cracking the whip -- telling scary stories, making it us against them -- all in an effort to get kids to work harder, to give more, do more and to do it all for less.
So can you blame the current work force for languishing? For not giving a shit if the company that employs them is as successful as your Board and Shareholders wants it to be? And if this "Think Tank" gets it's way -- who will they blame when this next generation, not content to merely languish in apathy chooses to rise up and seek the blood of their oppressors? Because that is exactly where things are going. Because that is where society has always gone under similar conditions. Because that's where things always go when the greedy short sighted fucks finally take things too far
There is NO shortage of technology talent in the United States. The lies propagated by prominent technology companies like Microsoft and Facebook are so they can fire more older workers and hire immigrants at bottom basement wages to replace them.
As for productivity declining, maybe that is because the economy is better now so that workers don't feel so compelled to work their asses off just to try to save their jobs. Also, productivity has increased substantially over the past decade or two, whereas wages have stagnated or even declined for the middle class. Something has got to give.
Don't believe these jerks from Microsoft and Facebook. They are just trying to kill off more jobs for older workers in order to give those jobs to immigrant workers.
At the beginning of every downturn in the economy, the companies make do with fewer employees by either not filling open positions or by laying people off. So the productivity goes higher since measurable-output/employee = productivity and measurable-output takes awhile to be impacted by the loss of the employees. We say that changes to the measurable-output lag behind changes in the number of employees. This is partially because other employees, who know their current job well, put in extra effort to do the job of the missing employees. Eventually, the employees doing 2 jobs reach burn out or find another job and leave the company. At that point, the measurable-output drops dramatically resulting in a corresponding drop in productivity. The company then hires two people to replace the employee they lost who was doing the two jobs resulting another large drop in productivity. I am not an economist, but I don't think productivity is a very useful indicator.
Productivity may also drop when you hire two new college graduates or two H1B visa employees instead of one older experienced programmer.
The idea that everyone needs to be able to write code is nonsense. This is just propaganda to support the "need" for more visas.
It's a CRISIS, I tell you! But fortunately we can spend the next 20 years importing labor for the jobs we can't export, while you fix the school system and kids work their way through it.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Also, since productivity is measured by $$ produced per hour worked, the huge drop in gas prices means that even if the total produced were to stay the same, "productivity" drops.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
These stupid bastards. They think the most productive workforce in the world has suddenly lost productivity because of some educational deficit.
I wonder if it even occurred to them that maybe just paying people a reasonable wage might make a difference instead of putting all your focus on your C-class executives' compensation.
Who doesn't realize that eventually, growing income inequality is going to eventually result in lower productivity? And that deteriorating lifestyles are not good for business even when they're good for your bottom line?
You are welcome on my lawn.
I think this is just one symptom of a major problem with our educational system in general and that it's this idea we need to cram all this irrelevant stuff into children's heads that they either don't care about or could care less. Why does everyone need to code? I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying why waste time trying to teach CS, or for that matter, anything else to a kid who doesn't show any interest in the subject? Maybe the kid doesn't show interest at the time the curriculum says they should, or maybe the kid doesn't care so much about computers.
Electricity is everywhere, but you don't see schools making "electrician education" part of the K-12 education curriculum. And why should they?
Ever notice one thing K-12 never teaches is that there is knowledge that can be learned outside school? Listening to educators you'd think that they were the only source of knowledge on earth, and yet learning outside of school has always been possible. Especially today with the internet, and Wikipedia, and YouTube, but also the public library, friends, family, tutors, other people. Yes it means you have to have a working bullshit filter, but frankly you have to have a bullshit filter anyway in public school. Yes it takes effort, but it's worth it. Growing up should not be sitting quietly and passively accepting what is given to you, but more of an exploration with guidance from parents and teachers.
I bet schools could cut back on their budgets quite a bit too if they stop spending so much on things for kids who don't care, and budgeted for kids who do.
I was installing security systems at the time, and we serviced all of the local schools. I was there during the purge of Apple from the school system. Rooms just for the storage of out going Apple equipment (computers, printers, other peripherals) lots of rooms. Every school was the same.
Some schools were giving a single Win95 and a modem a try (not a router) to get outside access and having a heck of a go of it. Running a 6 line BBS I could of been of some use, but regulations prevented it. - interesting time.
slashdot is merely reporting what the media is discussing.
The tech companies want to increase the number of h1-bs. So, the big tech companies have been pushing (paying) a media narrative, that the product of American k-12 schooling is inferior, and that America needs to import talent from overseas. Sort of like how Microsoft has been pushing that Google is evil, and anticompetitive, and Saudi Arabia is pushing that the Syrian rebels want a secular democracy (ha ha).
The US is the most productive economy in the world. I say we don't worry about it yet and instead use some of that productivity for critical utilities, such as health care, and liesure.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
shouldn't be allowed within a 100 miles of education or healthcare
I work in IT and am highly sought after. Have been for many years. Same with lots of people that I know. Recruiters are pulling them out of college with incredible offers.
The difference is a specialization in Linux, website management, and database administration (LAMP, Hadoop, Cpanel, PostGre, etc.).
Windows admins are a dime per dozen and they know it. Someone moved their cheese and they are failing to adapt.
Unfortunately, Windows skills are what all of the teachers are pushing. It is time for the high schools, colleges, and universities to teach skills that are relevant and sought after by employers.
I am sick of Microsoft, Facebook, and other companies pushing our youth in order to feed their profits!
we need to decriminalize innovation before we can ever get our productivity back.
If youre in america, youre not allowed to backward-engineer other peoples tech.... like is happening EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.
What good does it do when US schools crank out IT experts when the outlook is being not hired / replaced by cheap labor from overseas? I also don't think that high schools should focus on coding skills or such. Rather have students master writing and science skills, then drop tuition for all STEM degrees nationwide. Any shortage of talent will be gone within a matter of years. At the same time tech companies should not all focus on just a few areas in the US like Silicon Valley, Seattle, or San Diego. There are gazillion other places where talent is available and competition for that talent is tremendously lower making skilled workers less expensive to hire and easier to retain.
If you really want to dick with the education system, you might want to consider training people in the field most likely to impact them: economics.
For a country who swears by capitalism as the solution to everything, we don't know much of anything about economics or business. It's more of a voodoo religion than a skill or god forbid, science.
bingo. beancounting bullshit everywhere. they now call it metrics.
Whats surprising about the Gates inspired "Think Tank: K-12 CS Education Cure For Sagging US Productivity"? The guy was a techno thug in his previous incarnation as head of Microsoft where under his leadership the windows OS was preloaded onto Pcs and shoved down the throats of all and sundry creating a monopoly that raked in millions over a many years aided by complicit regulators who didn't have the guts to stare down the Microsoft behemoth when they had a chance to correct the situation when they finally called Microsoft to account for their monopolistic behavior.and abuse of power. Then Gates 2.O The second coming of Saint Bill and Melinda the foundation years or Techno thug wants to be loved. Now using the money gained form his old Microsoft Techno thug bully boy days of taking over companies he wants to be known as saint Bill the good guy helping the world become a better place by feeding our young into his CS Education machine to keep the good times rolling but for who? Once a techno thug always a techno thug!
The only thing sagging are my 90 y/o grandmother's tits. We're working harder, longer and producing more per hour than any time in history (giggity)
I say this as someone who had done well because of free trade, but all the countries I travel to for (globalized) business certainly DO NOT have free trade like practiced in US trade policies: they create advantage for themselves to protect what they have to create jobs and industry. The US has allowed its manufacturing, technology and jobs to ebb out of the US for a few pennies more profit. Because there are no prospects for jobs, fairly few people are willing to take the gamble of the hard work required to get into tech for the fleeting chance they may or may not have a job in the end. Simple risk analysis. Simple economics. You still see some techies get into it because they love it and would do it anyway. They don't calculate risk or economic gain the same way as most people.
Thanks for the story. Very useful for me right now, serendipitous, so to speak. #ftw