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Psychologist: Porn and Video Game Addiction Are Leading To 'Masculinity Crisis'
HughPickens.com writes: Philip Zimbardo is a prominent psychologist from Stanford, most notable for leading the notorious Stanford prison experiment. He has published new research findings based on the lives of 20,000 young men, and his conclusion is stark: there is a developing "masculinity crisis" caused by addiction to video games and pornography. "Our focus is on young men who play video games to excess, and do it in social isolation — they are alone in their room," says Zimbardo. "It begins to change brain function. It begins to change the reward center of the brain, and produces a kind of excitement and addiction. What I'm saying is — boys' brains are becoming digitally rewired."
As an example, Zimbardo uses this quote from one young man: "When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft. When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected." Zimbardo doesn't think there's a specific time threshold at which playing video games goes from being acceptable to excessive. He says it varies by individual, and is more based on a "psychological change in mindset." To fight the problem, he suggest families need to track how much time is being spent on video games compared to other activities. "He also called for better sex education in schools — which should focus not only on biology and safety, but also on emotions, physical contact and romantic relationships."
As an example, Zimbardo uses this quote from one young man: "When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft. When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected." Zimbardo doesn't think there's a specific time threshold at which playing video games goes from being acceptable to excessive. He says it varies by individual, and is more based on a "psychological change in mindset." To fight the problem, he suggest families need to track how much time is being spent on video games compared to other activities. "He also called for better sex education in schools — which should focus not only on biology and safety, but also on emotions, physical contact and romantic relationships."
being that many of them won't pass on their genes, nature will take care of it
I've read a lot of stories lately about VG and porn doing this and that to our youth. Which game will be blamed for the next school shooting?
I've been saying forever that the keyword is moderation. Anything in excess will screw you up, be it porn, exercise, or board games.
As much as people laugh at the Men Going Their Own Way movement, there is a growing number of men who feel that it is not worth the effort to put up with today's rapidly-changing standards of manhood.
He also called for better sex education in schools
When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected.
Sex education does nothing to solve the real issues these Peter Pans are suffering. I'm pretty sure that the guy in the quote knows all about how "sex" works, probably in more detail than is actually needed.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
It begins to change the reward center of the brain, and produces a kind of excitement and addiction. What I'm saying is — boys' brains are becoming digitally rewired...."When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft. When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected."
Ok, I'll bite. It seems to me that the brain is just doing what it is supposed to do - adapt to the environment it is confronted with.
The changes in rewards go far beyond the brain. As a society in the US at least we've greatly limited the options kids have when they graduate from college, so there is little true reward for spending time studying. Likewise, there is little benefit from having kids - they're a huge expense, and a major legal entanglement when that girl decides to reject you after you have the kid.
If you want kids to study and get married, then you need to reward them from doing so - and not just in their brains.
Or, we need to question why we want kids to do those things in the first place. Why is it so important that boys and girls get happily married? If the boys are just as happy alone, why not let them be happy alone? The obvious answer is so that we can have lots of babies running around, but I'm not really sure why it is so important that we have lots of babies running around either. We used to have them out of self-interest so that they could care for us in old age. With increases in productivity it is more likely that we'll end up caring for them in old age.
>When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft.
Well, no shit. Most people would rather be doing something they like than something they don't like. And is it really a revelation that socially awkward nerds feel socially awkward around women?
When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft. When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected.
And when I'm at work I wish that I was home watching TV with a beer in my hand.
Also, rock'n'roll causes people to act immoral!
The comments from the article sound eerily similar to those coming from Japanese men. More and more they are playing video games and watching porn rather than interacting with other people, most especially women.
It might have something to do with control. When you're playing a game, you are in control of your character. You are still at the whim of your surroundings and other players, but you are in control of "yourself".
Not so when approaching others and most especially women. With the decline of civility, asking a woman out and being rejected is no longer, "I'm sorry. I appreciate you asking but I'm just not interested" to, "Fucking loser! Why would you talk to me? Get the fuck out of here."
It's easier to not bother than deal with asshats.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Just like comic books and television screwed up a generation of kids, right? You could also use the same argument to say that kids in the 1800s just spent their time reading novels instead of having real life adventures.
And stop promoting promiscuity, which causes all sorts of emotional damage in the long term. Instead, let's promote loving relationships, sexual or otherwise.
I'm not saying people shouldn't have premarital sex. I'm just saying that people shouldn't hook up with someone they met in a club or give it up on the first date.
Same with porn. A little from time to time is fine. Watching really kinky stuff or watching it multiple times a day is not healthy.
If there was more love in the world, there would be fewer problems, like single mothers, high divorce rates, and teenage pregnancies. But our school systems promote "sexual freedom", codewords for promiscuous behaviour. Let's change that by finding a middle ground between the conservative abstinence only bullshit and this liberal sex everywhere bullshit.
Amen.
I don't think there are many guys out there, video game addicts or otherwise, who would prefer masturbation to porn over sex with someone they like, trust, and feel comfortable with. The problem is, as Mr. Zimbardo alludes, we don't demystify sex for kids so that it becomes a regular life experience. If you never get anything more than an awkward biological overview of sex from school it will, at least for many boys, remain this mysterious, anxiety-provoking, forbidden fruit. Some magic experience that women zealously keep locked up in the castle. Porn is nothing more than a safe, artificial side-channel outlet for temporary relief of sexual frustration. It's lame but it is also understandable.
tl;dr - Our society sucks when it comes to preparing kids for sexual maturity.
the excessive use of video games and online pornography is pushing young men into a crisis of masculinity that leaves them bored at school, disinterested in human contact, and opting out of society.
Bullshit. Kids are bored at school because schools have been redesigned into standardized testing mills that cater to the lowest common denominator through inadequate funding and overzealous administrators. Theyre 'disinterested in human contact' because every single friend and acquaintence is manifest immediately in this neat new tool called the internet, and its generally only a pocket away. Theyre not opting out of society, theyre opting out of your idea of society. two failed wars have left them with limbless parents and friends that sit in the basement and eat cold canned raviolis. An entire generation has been shunned from the labour market because the adults they trust squandered through greed and hubris the future of society. And things they dont care about like abortion, gay marriage bans, and contraception have suddenly and inexplicably become the only thing in the last decade theyre forced to care about. theyre opting out because your pepperidge farm andy roony wank fest does not exist while a world of perpetual debt under minimum wage absolutely does.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Porn doesn't invent tests to see if you really love them. Porn doesn't create drama. Porn doesn't leave dirty dishes in the sink. Porn is whatever you want it to be. You want a blonde with big tits today and a redhead with little tits tomorrow? No problem.
The birth control pill created the sexual revolution by liberating women from the need to hitch themselves to a man to care for them and their child. Now instant access to vast libraries or pornography is liberating men from the need to hitch themselves to a woman for sexual satisfaction. The main difference is that when women were "liberated" from men it was called progress, but when men are liberated from women it is labeled a mental defect.
I think the masculinity crisis might be in this guys pants. I mean shit, insert replace WoW with golf, and porn with expensive prostitute, and you have the macho alpha bro shark that is supposed to be the goal of the man.
The golden rule: If you are attracted to an attractive woman's body, you are a pervert and a pig.
Golden rule part B: if you are not attracted to an unattractive woman's body, you're a shallow pig.
He's looking at the symptoms and declaring them to be the problem without any real understanding of the underlying causes.
Guys focusing on video games and porn are a natural result in a society which is heavily biased in favor of women. Hell, I'd rather avoid dealing with women romantically too, given all the risks involved. All it takes is the mere accusation of rape, and a man's life can be torn to shreds. But even beyond that, we see a legal system completely set against men; custody, domestic violence, divorce? All stacked against men.
So more men are choosing porn and forgoing women. Seems like a perfectly rational response to me.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
And really, why would young men take the risks? Not only is there an easy way out (that you lament), but there's also very little in the risk-benefit department. The demands on boys are insane: Treat women as equals, but provide for the family, but share responsibility for the kids and don't forget quality time with the wife, but forget about seeing the kids when the wife gets a divorce, but keep paying for the kids. Check your privilege, you're the reason why women clutch their purses and switch to the other side of the road, but be masculine and decisive, but ask for explicit consent, but make sure she really means it and won't change her mind, but don't be whipped. Fact is, a very large percentage of women are best avoided, not made sacrifices for, and I mean because they're bad for anyone, not just you. Yes, dating is a numbers game, but it looks like it has a big Russian roulette component lately.
They then both called the guy "an idiot".
They missed the fact that SHE could have asked him out. It's the 21st century, not the 18th century.
The reason guys spend all their time playing video games instead of out is that the video games are better than real life. Women expect men to be the 50's guy - bring flowers, etc. But they don't want to be the 50's girl.
The crisis in Masculinity is concurrent with a crisis of femininity. They feed off each other like a viscous cycle. As long our culture continues to complain about men not acting like it thinks men should act - all the while encouraging women to do what they want, we will have no progress on this issue.
Please note, I am not saying that women should act like a 50's girl. They are free to act like a modern woman. But don't complain about what men do and ignore what women do. (In fact, I think women should act like a modern women - and includes asking men out and buying them dinner for a first date. You want equality, you have to actually act equal, not insist on special treatment).
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Read this story a day ago, and also this solid criticism on its bullshittiness.
https://medium.com/@cainejw/th...
How is treating women with respect and not like fuck toys acting less masculine? Sounds like your ideas were screwed up BEFORE you played video games.
Ive dated a lot of women who it turns out are looking for the "cowboy" type or the "biker" type or the "go chiefs" type. And are unhappy with me because i havent subscribed to any of these store-bought personality templates.
I prefer to just be who i am. A multifaceted individual with a wide variety of interests and hobbies.
Women HATE that.
Here's the thing. Women are just as screwed up as men. However, in a slightly different way.
Most women are initially attracted to 'the "cowboy" type or the "biker" type or the "go chiefs" type'. Though I'm not sure if it's an inherent thing, or learned. But they almost never want you to actually be that way long term. They want to turn you into that "multifaceted individual", not actually be that way from the start.
Don't get me wrong, as men, we're just as screwed up as to what we're attracted to and what we want too.
"When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft."
So would it be better if he said "When I'm in class, I wish I was playing baseball" or "fishing" or "out working on my car"?
Being a 47-year old man myself, I'm not so old that I can't remember that wishing I wasn't doing whatever crappy thing I had to be doing isn't pretty much the ground-state of any adolescent.
"When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected."
Meh, I think porn is a symptom, not the cause. I'd say what he's observing is a thing, but is a transient result of a (historically) momentary discontinuity between sexualism and sexual availability.
We live in a society where womens' sexualization is complete: it's a (pardon the term) naked commodity, and in which its use as a lever for commercial exploitation is constant. The primal urge for sex in young men is, I suspect, unchanged from history, yet now they're like starving men walking down a street of bakeries, candy shops, and restaurants all taunting them with what they want. At the same time, REAL women (as opposed to the ones flaunting themselves for commercial gain - you don't think those girls in the Axe commercial are doing that because they really feel that way, do you?) are more empowered than ever to demand a level of respect and consideration in the relationship making the sexual negotiation ever more complex for a stupid, single-minded, priapistically-driven young man. Porn and masturbation are the only sexuality he can control, is it any wonder that sometimes he wishes it was as simple as the movies make it seem?
It's the old conundrum between offense and defense. At this time, one side has all the advantages, is it any wonder that sometimes the other side doesn't want to play as much?
-Styopa
Translation: Girls don't like me, so it must be their fault.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Claiming normal male behaviour is a disease.
Da fuq?
How did *that* get modded insightful. Being completely addicted to anything, no matter how harmless in moderation (games, porn, alcohol, other drugs) etc is generally considered to be a bad thing.
It's certainly not "normal male behaviour".
I think the only reason this post got modded informative is because anything that takes a dig at feminists on slashdot gets modded up no matter how batshit crazy.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
And it has since the beginning of "civilization".
The top 10% of men in genetics or wealth get all of the benefits. The bottom 90% get to die in wars and in mines and in workplace accidents, supporting the harems and lifestyles of their "betters". If they don't die they go home to a woman who wishes she were still young and pretty enough to bag one of the alphas and she takes it out on him daily. His kids, coworkers and relatives don't respect him because for the last 50 years the western advertising machine has been propagating the message that the average man is boring, tedious, and disposable.
Unlike reality videogames generally give you guaranteed reward for the amount of time you put into them. And competition is fundamentally fair since everyone starts at the same place. As opposed to reality where your ending status is very much determined by your starting status.
Some men just aren't born to compete, and don't have the innate resilience to keep trying despite repeated failures. That doesn't mean those men are less deserving of happiness and satisfaction and peace, they just have to find their own and ignore the bullshit that "society" keeps heaping on them.
"Phillip Zimbardo says his study into the lives of 20,000 young men and their relationships with video games and pornography demonstrates that this relatively new phenomenon is affecting the minds of young men. " I see no links to a scientific publication nor any in the independent link. Where is this apparent study actually published? Instead we just seem to have a book for a popular audience.
Only if you're a pussy and buy your girlfriend shit. If she says you need to buy her shit to prove you love her, run the other way, fast.
So much for wanting equality. All women want to do is use men for their wallets, and then when they start losing their ability to do so because they are losing their beauty, they settle down with the stable guys they've rejected their whole lives.
Then you're dating the wrong women. My wife isn't that way. She doesn't have a real diamond engagement ring (and she know it - she'd have killed me for spending $ 2+K on a ring.)
Date a shallow woman, Get a shallow woman. Date an interesting woman, Get an interesting woman.
UPS Sucks
Zimbardo isn't a feminist, and I wouldn't put my money on him being taken in by feminist propaganda.
However, I think his study is missing some significant elements. He is too quick to postulate the cause-and-effect relationship. Other psychologists have shown that overcrowding also causes voluntary social isolation. Bullying and other such environmental factors also drive people to prefer solitary entertainment. I think the addiction to video games is as much an effect as it is a cause in a whole cluster of social events.
I will point out that a common belief among men in America, be it true or false, is that women:
1) are very demanding in romantic relationships.
2) are not very giving in romantic relationships.
3) are fickle and will leave you as soon as they get bored (with no concern over how much of an emotional attachment you have to them).
4) are not interested in much of anything that men find engaging, and won't join men in men's lives so much as pull men out into the woman's lives.
Maybe this is different for millennials or younger. I don't know. But I do know plenty of geeks who feel this way about women and all have stories to back it up. They don't even bother trying to seek romance because they see it as an uphill battle with no prize at the end. The games and porn are an easy way to fill the time instead.
Actually, the golden rule is, 'Treat others the way you would want to be treated yourself'.
Think about that in context.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Most women are initially attracted to 'the "cowboy" type or the "biker" type or the "go chiefs" type'. Though I'm not sure if it's an inherent thing, or learned. But they almost never want you to actually be that way long term.
They are facing a wicked dilemma. She wants the cowboy/biker type with a unfaithful streak, because she want his genes for her sons and grandsons. On the other hand, she wants him to be nice and faithful to help raise their kids. So, the intended solution is to hook up with a rebel, and try to change him.
The golden rule: If you are attracted to an attractive woman's body, you are a pervert and a pig.
Uh, no. If you are attracted to an attractive woman's body, and then you make an ass of yourself over it, whistling at her, making crude remarks to your friends, or making unwanted physical advances, then you are a pervert and a pig.
It's really not complicated.
No, the golden rule is: if you have the gold, you make the rules.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Then you're dating the wrong women. My wife isn't that way. She doesn't have a real diamond engagement ring (and she know it - she'd have killed me for spending $ 2+K on a ring.)
Ditto here. Married 13 years now with a $100 cubic zirconia ring.
Date a shallow woman, Get a shallow woman. Date an interesting woman, Get an interesting woman.
You forgot the most important bit: be an interesting man, be able to date an interesting woman.
If your life revolves around video games, by definition you're a shallow person. I might be interested in a brief conversation with a person about the latest games, but if that's the extent of your interests then it's going to be a short conversation. Mix porn into the conversation, and I'm looking for a fast out.
The "conclusions" of "abnormal behavior" were made from observations that kids would rather be at home playing instead of sitting in a class AND from the fact that young humans will seek sexual satisfaction but avoid rejection.
That sounds like something a ROBOT might find strange.
Not a human being. Particularly not one who actually went through puberty at some point in their life.
In short... like most psychology studies out there, this too is most probably bullshit.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
no, what they REALLY want (and studies confirm) is to FUCK the bad boy, and MARRY the good guy. The good guy gets to raise the bad boys children. The good guys are opting out.
It got modded up because the readers on Slashdot do not want to hear that porn and or video games have any downside.
Of course they forget that free access to addictive substances has been shown in study after study to cause problems.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Isn't that what this really boils down, not some bullshit about masculinity? Women watch soap operas because it's more exciting than their boring life, men play video games so we can be greater than the insignificant little peons that we are. And in porn the most beautiful women will perform for you even if you're fatter than the marshmallow man and uglier than a troll. We have immersive enough solutions that the body is fooled to play out almost all its chemical registry with endorphin, adrenaline, dopamine and so on letting you fake all the excitement and rewards as you slay imaginary dragons.
The problem is that it's addictive and desensitizing, if you're on a constant rush of awards and achievements and level-ups and whatnot then real life is a real downer. Not entirely unlike how I hear people on drugs describe coming off their high or how fat people act when they come off a sugar rush. So through a combination of actual reality check, batting outside your league because of failed self-perception and being poor at handling disinterest or rejection the result is often a painful face-plant. Once bitten, twice shy so you rather watch porn and play video games than try again.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
One might argue that structuring a boy's entire life in a such a way that every approved activity is completely at odds with their natural inclinations would have a predictable result of creating compulsive behavior around the few available activities that provide a release.
Seems that's what a lot of men are doing and it results in people like Zimbardo going "Hey, you're not allowed to just be single!"
Maybe you just really hate feminists and see conspiracies everywhere, or maybe you are just trying to justify your own self destructive behaviour, but either way it's wrong.
Or maybe it's just a standard human response to the environment? Just about any organism would retreat from a toxic environment, why would young men be any different? Society tells them in no uncertain terms that they get less rights in relationships, less reproductive options and once they reproduce they are merely to be used for income. Why the hell would they now want to go ahead and have what *you* and the rest of the attackers call "normal"?
They are getting pleasure from something that harms no one, except for that one little fact that society can no longer use them. As long as they continue getting more pleasure from porn than from real women I see no problem here. when they want real women they will go out and find them, and if they find the demands too great then they will retreat back into their porn/VG world.
The only losers are the women, who will now have to share the few men that *are* available. Like I pointed in a post to *you* many months ago, treating men badly simply to further what you think women want only results in the women who are the losers. Maybe you should suggest a mens-only school, or special bursaries for men only to make more men available for relationships? After all, you suggested similar for women multiple times on this forum.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
While the guys with Neanderthal brains are out at bars trying to get laid, I'm living a comfortable, safe, and happy life. While they're getting exposed to STDs, drugs, accidental pregnancies, rough divorce settlements, paying child support, spouse abuse (either as the perpetrator or the victim), defaulting on their home because their spouse talked them into living above their means, etc. etc. etc..... I am living in a small single-bed apartment alone, making good money, playing video games (mostly MMOs) for social interaction, and listening to music to tame my biological cravings.
Not to mention, my choice not to reproduce helps the population problem -- at least in the span of a few decades, if not the long term. There is not a single problem that humankind has that can be solved by making more people. In fact, making more people does exactly the opposite for nearly all of our problems; it makes them more severe and reduces the length of time we have until those problems erupt into global catastrophes.
I don't *want or need* a woman. I don't *want or need* a romantic relationship with anyone. I don't want kids. I don't want any of the associated problems that come with either. It's been completely wired out of me.
I am basically an exact description of the type of person the study was about. And yet, I am not unhappy; I am not unsuccessful; I am not a loser. I am an environmentally-conscious, socially-reponsible citizen, supporter of my community, dedicated employee, educated voter and participant in the political process, and I have my fair share of social interaction, too, on the order of 6 to 8 hours per day on MMOs. Just because I don't touch the people I socialize with doesn't somehow make me diseased. I am a very social person. I am "socially intelligent". I can pick up on body language cues, implied meaning in conversation, the intent behind vocal intonation, the significance of a touch. I deal with people in meatspace for eight hours a day, and people in virtual space for another 6 to 8.
Medicine and academia has a tendency to call anything abnormal a disease, or a problem to be solved. Sometimes change is for the better. Sometimes the status quo is the worse of the two worlds.
In short: I would prefer to continue to be who I am, in the situaton I am in, rather than be the epitome of "masculinity" as this researcher thinks I need to be, even if I had the means to become that. And quite honestly, I'm pretty sure I do have the means to become that, if I put my mind to it. I don't put my mind to it because *it's not how I want to live my life.* Who the fuck is Philip Zimbardo to tell me that my life choices are wrong, especially when, by all the objective measurements that his ilk thrive on, I am of a far greater net benefit to society than many of the so-called "masculine" men he thinks I should be?
Bullshit. I spent my 20s playing video games after work every day and weekend, watched tonnes of porn, same as the people in this article. My 30s are full of children and well adjusted family life. Its like anything, some people grow out of it, and some let it take over their lives.
You should say, TO SOME PEOPLE this is clearly damaging behaviour. I would submit that those are the same people that would easily find something else to damage themselves with if not for porn and video games.
In summary, its just a bunch of hot air. In past ages these young men would go to war, join a cult, or bury themselves in their work.
Obviously you want your kids to have limits on their computer time, but once they are in their 20s they are enough of an adult to realize what they want, make their own decisions. Drinking, drugs and video games is as good of a way to spend your life as any other when you have no real obligations.
Society doesn't really make many productive things for young men to do in the evenings. The two I can think of that are the most popular when i was a 20 something were waste money on clubs/bars or exercise. You cant exercise more than a few hours a day, and most 20 something are dead broke because of all the income inequality in our lovely world. A 20 year old with no family has very few time sinks. What is the alternative? what should these kids be doing? buying $7 beers at the club trying to impress whores? Volunteering at a church? get real! Video games are cheap, porn is free. That's why they are successful and people are into them as hobbies. Not because peoples brains are changing or some such bullshit. Im pretty sure guys always liked playing games and naked ladies.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
Sorry but it's not that simple. Men's behavior is an adaptation to changes in social structure. In the past, rejection was about the only thing a guy had to face. Today, it's fraudulent, career destroying sexual abuse/rape charges, financial ruin from extremist 'family' court judges in divorce, and, really, indifference from the now hyper gynocentric/effeminate culture. Hell, even coming on to a woman in what most would consider appropriate circumstances (at a bar/club lets say) carries a real risk of being carted off to jail because she 'felt uncomfortable'. A lot of guys are doing the math and realizing the dwindling rewards of pursuing women no longer offset the increasing risks. These threats are not simply anxiety that can be willed away. They are very real and increasing with every socjus type law that is passed.
The bottom line is that feminism removed almost all the incentives for men to marry and commit, leaving only the responsibilities for cleaning up any 'mess' that might occur for choosing to interact with women at any level, from casual/professional interaction to sex/marriage (why did she choose to have the baby? because she knew she could get the state to bilk it out of him). You can thank affirmative action for that. Women are now a privileged caste, and in caste societies, the lowers often avoided interaction with the uppers just to minimize the probability of trouble. Thus, the only guys left at the table are the desperate sorts who will take any beating for any sort of female attention, even if negative, and the player sorts you mentioned. The whole situation is degenerate.