Microsoft Confirms It Won't Offer Free Windows 10 Upgrades To Pirates

An anonymous reader writes: If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. All that talk about pirates getting free Windows 10 upgrades? Not happening. For genuine users, the free upgrade to Windows 10 means receiving "ongoing Windows innovation and security updates for free, for the supported lifetime of that device." Terry Myerson, Microsoft's executive vice president of operating systems, has clarified the company's plans were not changing for non-genuine users: "Microsoft and our OEM partners know that many consumers are unwitting victims of piracy, and with Windows 10, we would like all of our customers to move forward with us together. While our free offer to upgrade to Windows 10 will not apply to Non-Genuine Windows devices, and as we've always done, we will continue to offer Windows 10 to customers running devices in a Non-Genuine state."

Comments

how about the Buccaneers?

[turkeydance]

they need more help than a quarterback.

Re:how about the Buccaneers?

[richrz]

bucaneer=high price for corn.

Re:how about the Buccaneers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Johnny Depp isn't going to do the sequel, he's back to doing mob flicks.

Re:how about the Buccaneers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shiver me timbers, matie!

Re:how about the Buccaneers?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

He's in Austrailia right now to do a Pirates movie. He violated quarantine rules by bringing his dogs with him without following proper protocol and can you tell my preferred radio station needs to sort out its priorities?

Re:how about the Buccaneers?

[Whiteox]

Naah. He left with his rabid, worm-ridden dogs before the 72hr limit imposed by Australian quarantine in his private plane, otherwise the dogs would of been euthanized. He'll probably come back to finish the movie though. I'm not sure if he left his wife behind.

Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is a greedy corporation and nobody should use their software, IMHO.

(Posted from LINUX MINT).

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Z00L00K]

Add to it: Who needs Windows 10? It's way too early after the release of the decently working Windows 7.

Too frequent OS updates is just causing trouble for users.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[richrz]

as a former MSFT employee, believe me, this.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[modmans2ndcoming]

um....it's been 6 years since windows 7 was released.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is a greedy corporation...

All publicly traded corporations are greedy. Including RedHat, and they are taking control of linux with systemd. You cannot escape corporate greed. Sorry fella.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[ShanghaiBill]

Microsoft is a greedy corporation and nobody should use their software, IMHO.

Then you should welcome this policy. Microsoft long had a policy of tolerating illegal copying, especially in the third world, since that helped them become the defacto standard, at expense of truly free software. Now that they are cracking down, it will push people to better alternatives. Greed is good, at least in this case.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

um....it's been 6 years since windows 7 was released.

You are part of the problem. You don't care about stability, you just want new, new, new.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[modmans2ndcoming]

I want new new new features that will protect me from new new new threats and provide access to new new new technologies.

That is what is great about the new Windows 10 model....if you want stability, fine...don't take the upgrades that they will push out over time. You will not be on an old abandoned platform that may be stable but is no longer getting security updates.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Z00L00K]

And it's still not showing it's age - the question of having a stable situation is important, a lot of changes and failed software from an OS upgrade costs huge amounts of money.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Guy From V]

And even XP isn't such a bad option, either

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? That gaudy glass crap looks so dated.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

So you've never used windows 7 on a touchscreen then?

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

There are really no better alternatives though. Unless you mean going full apple... But then you lose the hardware flexibility of a pc.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I'm concerned, NT is the only Windows that wasn't a complete abomination.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jarfil]

XP is crap. Its driver model and security model are a total joke. Any program can bring the whole system down, and you will not even know which one it was.
I can't believe people can defend XP, call it "stable" and whatnot. I would rather have a Vista with all its beta-ish stuff than touch XP with a ten foot pole.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Livius]

Why settle for an incomplete abomination?

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

BS.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[nashv]

Ha. They will still tolerate illegal copying. He even clearly mentions that they will continue to allow customers to run Windows 10 in a non-genuine state. The only difference is that it won't be a one click upgrade. But then, it probably won't be a one-click upgrade for genuine users.

Look, pragmatically speaking, Windows is not leaving the desktop until every AAA-gaming title ships on Linux. That's it, plain and simple. You and I know both know that there is nothing else motivates people to install Windows. If games work on Linux, vendors will ship it. And then the desktop environments will improve to run better too. Say what you will , but the Windows DE is much more fluid and crisp in performance compared to Gnome.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jarfil]

Alternatives... for doing what.

If you're doing servers or data processing, there you have a plethora of GNU/Linux distributions. You should already be using GNU tools on Windows anyways. Office, entertainment (music/video), web, software development... all of it you can do anywhere.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[phantomfive]

There are really no better alternatives though.

Enough people have gone full-Linux to show it is viable.......and IMO much better, but there's no accounting for tastes.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[chipschap]

Mandatory Linux post: I would rather have Linux than touch Microsoft (insert any version here) with a 10 foot pole.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

The glass looks feel a bit stale indeed. The problem is that the new metro garbage looks 20 years older!

Re:Greedy Corporation

[BarbaraHudson]

Too frequent OS updates is just causing trouble for users.

No wonder there will never be a "year of the linux desktop."

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jarfil]

It's not only the game or desktop support, but also the multi-monitor support, multi-display-adapter support, high granularity switching, etc. Windows Display Driver Model is better than anything on Linux, and it's only getting better with Windows 10's WDDM 2.0 and DirectX 12. Linux drivers have advanced a lot, thanks in part to Steam and all the interest in porting games to Linux, but the support still has to advance quite a bit more to beat Windows at what it does best: showing windows.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[amiga3D]

Most people like being someone's bitch. Having someone tell them what to do and how to do it and when. These people would always be miserable on Linux. Even the most microsoftish of Linux distros give people too many choices.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Zontar The Mindless]

Hello, 2005 called. Maybe you didn't hear it ring.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[VMSBIGOT]

Any program? I'll take that bet. I want a memory dump of an XP BSOD caused by solitare.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

That's your choice. Nothing wrong with it. You should use the tool that works best for you or that you like the best. Linux is that tool for a few people. For many more people it is OSX, and for a huge number it is Windows. You aren't wrong just because your tool happens to be niche.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jones_supa]

Linux is not a realistic alternative on the desktop. It's too unreliable.

Additionally, LibreOffice is not suitable for real world use as it will ruin the layout of your MS Office documents (which still dominate the business world).

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jones_supa]

That's why the Linux kernel is so successful but the Linux desktops ain't. There should be a "Linus" for the desktop too: a colonel with a good taste, clear vision and uncompromising attitude.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Njorthbiatr]

You've picked the wrong field if you wanted something like that. Technology evolves fast. Keep up or drop behind; if you don't like it then maybe you should have been a history major.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

I have both XP and Windows 7 running in a VM. Performance wise default settings of XP beat Windows 7 easily. Last I heard windows 8 and newer made it nearly impossible to disable some performance drains already present in Windows 7. Microsofts newest application framework and market wont work without them running 100% of the time. Already had to deal with that crap from Gnome and Unity, not going to tolerate it when they expect me to pay for it (XFCE/XLDE forever!).

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Kurrelgyre]

So you'd favor a similarly old and stable Linux distribution's release over the current one for your desktop/laptop, like Debian Etch over Jessie?

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

On Windows all software is not packaged by Microsoft. Stable operating system with new applications.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

they do, it's called KDE on debian

Re:Greedy Corporation

[penguinoid]

To add to that, let me be the first to predict that the year Microsoft finally rids itself of all those filthy pirates, will coincide with the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Billly Gates]

It most certainly is.

At this moment of time I am replacing a motherboard. Will Windows 7 even boot off it? NO!

No efi support or I should say limited and no I do not even mean secure boot. I am talking usb 3 which Windows 7 doesn't support. USB 2 in efi? No support or very limited. Sata in uefi mode? Nope. Exotic. Need 3rd party driver.

Windows 7 will boot if you turn on csm aka compatibility support module which trashes your boot time.

This next statement is more controversial but important for non slashdotters ... not everyone uses or wants a desktop pc. No tablet support. MS surface is gaining popularity and so are Lenovo yogas, dell venues, etc. Consumers want portability, apps, programs, and super long battery life.

6 years is a long time in technology. Things change.

Like XP before it Windows 7 is great for the hardware designed for it. Old school bios, no uefi, usb2, no 4k scaling, etc. Meanwhile as quad core atoms and future intel SC move more components into hardware and rely on firmware ala Uefi Windows 10 and later will be better.

Right now Windows 8.1 is faster on a newer build because you don't need to disable intel smart connect and turn on CSM and use 3rd party drivers that auto launch just to get Windows 7 to work at all

I will say this. I HATE the look of flat, pastel, chromeless windows, and blinding white and nursery school colors. I miss aero and I am playing with glass8 :-(

That is my only complaint but this is the new thing designers do today and that is not ms specific. Many refuse to hire anyone with a portfolio with skuemorphic design. ugh.

But I broke myself in and it's fine. I realized I just hated change because 7 was so awesome for it's. But it is 2015. If your 2010 era machine still works keep using 7. XP users held onto their clunkers for years. Everyone else will move forward

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget first party hardware out-of-the-box support rather than "let's just leave it to the community for free" which ends up being "mostly works, if it's popular/standardized enough and is either no longer sold or on the downward slope of its lifecycle."

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite what you're looking for, but I've seen functioning systems that won't even run Solitaire (actually they run it for about 4 seconds and then it crashes, due to an incompatibility in legacy 3d driver accel code, acknowledged by Intel but no fix available for 64 bit systems). Also happens in the other built in games that use 3d functionality.

Then again, this is REALLY not what you're looking for, because the XP solitaire runs fine - it's the windows 7 one that has problems with it.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[hairyfeet]

Agreed and you can bet your behind that many of the small shops like mine will avoid it for the first year because of the major PITA from false positives. Certain OEMs (cough "Lenovo" cough) seem to just be hated by MSFT and are a big enough hassle to get past WGA with their own damned Windows 7 key, to have to jump through the WGA hoops AGAIN just to upgrade the thing? Fuck off MSFT, Win 7 gets patches until 2020 maybe by then you'll get your head out of your ass.

What is fricking sad is for the first year of the Win 7 release they were killing piracy dead, with $50 for Home and $100 for a triple pack the amount of pirate systems in my area was dropping like a stone and as I said then if they would have offered Win 7 Starter for $25 for older systems? They would have wiped it out. Now it looks like they aren't even offering the cheap upgrades for the first year...anybody wanna bet my local Craigslist is gonna be filled with whatever the top Win 10 SKU is because they got a pre hacked off of TPB?

Dear MSFT....the pirates already have Windows 7...you know as well as I do that you CANNOT BLOCK IT because they are using the OEM SKUs which means you'd wipe out tens of thousands of OEM Windows 7 installs and the false positives would be a bad publicity nightmare,mmmkay? Your goal should be to MAKE THE PIRATES RUN LEGIT because your numbers for Windows 8/8.1? Suck monkey nuts, you cannot afford another fail, right? As Gabe Newell said "piracy is a service problem" and with Windows 7 firmly in their hands you have NO stick to swing at them, ALL you have is the carrot...WTF are ya doing man? You should be offering $25 copies of Win 10 Home and $50 triple packs to bring them into the fold! You're shooting yourself in the face all over again, just like when you refused to listen to us beta testers that pointed out Windows 8/8.1 (which is also in the hands of the pirates, they just don't like it as much as Win 7) was like running Windows 2.0 redesigned by hipsters, are ya TRYING to reach a trifecta of fail?

Re:Greedy Corporation

[modmans2ndcoming]

Oh, your one of those people that think having 7 of 8 gigs or RAM sitting idle is a good thing.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

I Agree. M$ depends too much on frequent updates for their profits. And will Windows 10 (what happened to Windows 9?) SUCK any less than windows8? Not likely.

What really should have happened with Windows XP (and programs designed to run on it) is that it should have continued to be updated and features added carefully without changing the experience for its users. Instead, M$ chose to release a new version of Windows that was one of the buggiest ever, Vista.

M$ has never cared about the users of its products, only its profit margins. Look at all of their past (and current) business practices.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you're one of those people who don't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Re:Greedy Corporation

[chipschap]

Wish I could mod this up. For once an entirely sensible post.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[modmans2ndcoming]

you're an asshole

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Why single out Gnome? Was that the worst you could find? What about xfce, e17, or any of the others (anything except gnome).

Comparing Win7 to Gnome is like comparing it to 98.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jarfil]

What do you mean Linux is "too unreliable"? It won't crash, it won't lose your data, it will keep 100+ day uptimes without a hitch... :-?

As for LibreOffice vs. MS Office, both will keep 100% of their formatting once you export to PDF, and keep 100% of their data if you use any open format like ODT, DOCX, or plain text. Using anything else is just asking for trouble down the road anyway.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Lately windows can't seem to handle showing windows correctly. Clicking through the task manager to the window behind it, windows initializing in a non-visible state, among other issues.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Whiteox]

you're an asshole

If you are going to correct English, then note that an ass is a small donkey. An ass HOLE is any hole in a donkey i.e. nasal, aural, oral, anal, vaginal and urethral.
So if you are going to say 'ass hole' then you are not being specific enough.
Presumably you mean the anal hole of an ass? In that case the correction should be: you're an anal hole of an ass.
If however you mean a colloquial term for a human anus, then it should be you're an arsehole.
Otherwise: "you're an arse hole of an ass." if you don't want to cause any confusion for the reader.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[sexconker]

At this moment of time I am replacing a motherboard. Will Windows 7 even boot off it? NO!

Bullshit.

No efi support or I should say limited and no I do not even mean secure boot.

Bullshit.

I am talking usb 3 which Windows 7 doesn't support.

Bullshit.

USB 2 in efi? No support or very limited. Sata in uefi mode? Nope. Exotic. Need 3rd party driver.

Bullshit that doesn't even make sense. What does Windows 7 have to do with it? Talk to your mobo and peripheral manufacturers.

Windows 7 will boot if you turn on csm aka compatibility support module which trashes your boot time.

No tablet support.

Also bullshit.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[bored]

XP is crap. Its driver model and security model are a total joke.

Please be more specific because the whole NT line shares the same driver model (the most significant changes were actually in win2k with the addition of PnP) and security model. And that includes windows 10... The addition of UAC dialogs instead of runas, isn't a security "model" change so much as a implementation detail. The virtualized HKLM aren't really "security model" changes either and are probably the single largest security change to newer windows that actually makes a difference over running as a restricted user in 2k,xp,2k3.

So, i'm curious what exactly you think is crap about the windows security model and what exactly changed that had a meaningful impact.. And no, simply changing the default user to a restricted one doesn't really count because anyone with 1/2 a brain did the same thing to older windows installs. Maybe the largest resulting change is that crap software now actually works consistently in such an environment without having to implement custom policies for busted applications. ASLR maybe? Because that is application specific and there are 3rd party utilities that provide it for XP. Same thing for driver signature enforcement, its possible to set a GPO to reject unsigned drivers. Something ACL related maybe? Because in microsoft's words "The fundamental structure of access control lists (ACLs) has not changed much for Windows Vista".

You should really read this article http://www.windowsecurity.com/... which is a pretty good introduction to the security features of the NT kernel, so that you can communicate effectively about what you think is wrong with windows security model before you start making blanket statements about it.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

The new look is clean and elegant. It displays everything in an easy to view manner and stays out of my way. Vista/7's UI was all about tacky bling that imposed itself on the user at every chance.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Billly Gates]

Fine on an asus sabertooth z97 go disable CSM? Windows 7 will load and no keyboard or mouse and no disk. Actually Windows 7 does have efi usb2 but you can't install it.

Put CSM on and windows 8.1 slows boot time and does 1981 bios emulation for Windows 7.

It is legacy now and crusty. Not obsolete yet but with work arounds like XP had which considered SATA exotic with special drivers shows it's age. SOC silcon on a chip where it is designed to interface with firmware and not 1981 based IBM limitations are going to be more of an issue.

FYI there is hardware sold right now at Bestbuy with NO Windows 7 support. No drivers. :-(

Yes there are USB 3 drivers on cd but Windows 7 is not fully UEFI 2.3.1 compatible. WINDOWS 10 is!

6 years like the grandparent said is a long time in technology. WINDOWS XP was the exception. Never the norm and is about it except for legacy equipment

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jones_supa]

What do you mean Linux is "too unreliable"? It won't crash, it won't lose your data, it will keep 100+ day uptimes without a hitch... :-?

Sure the kernel won't crash but the desktops are filled with little glitches.

As for LibreOffice vs. MS Office, both will keep 100% of their formatting once you export to PDF, and keep 100% of their data if you use any open format like ODT, DOCX, or plain text.

Not true...the layout of a DOCX can be corrupted on save or load. Not very nice if your business partner opens your document later and discovers that it's messed up. It makes you look unprofessional and might even lead to a lost sale.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Yah, superfetch, its so great there are only about 53k page in google on how to disable it, and "superfetch" SPACE in the google search dialog completes with "disable" as the first choice.

So, nothing like wasting ram just in case you _MIGHT_ use some application you have used in the past 120 days.

Not that linux is better than XP... I put 16G of ram in my linux laptop, and I've actually never seen it use more than 3GB unless i'm running virtual machines. That is even with eclipse running, which was a small shock. Some might consider this an advantage...

Just install XP on an SSD and you won't ever notice the lack of superfetch.

 

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Too frequent OS updates is just causing trouble for users.

No wonder there will never be a "year of the linux desktop."

Not everyone runs Arch, non-LTS Ubuntu, or Fedora.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

You've picked the wrong field if you wanted something like that. Technology evolves fast. Keep up or drop behind; if you don't like it then maybe you should have been a history major.

If you are speaking for a home user, then fine, run whatever you want since it doesn't affect anything outside your own house. But companies are a different story. Businesses can't afford to run mission critical production software on bleeding edge platforms. Bugs, regressions, or glitches from version updates mean downtime, and downtime costs money. Add that the fact that few businesses are fond of spending money to change things that are working perfectly well, and many businesses won't touch a new OS deployment--especially for a new OS from Microsoft--until it has had some "shakedown" time for OS patching and testing with their internal applications.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[sound vision]

Somehow, I think that if MS started using a more Apple-like release schedule where support for old systems might get dropped 18 months after release, people would scream bloody murder... and if you want something more like Linux's rolling releases, why not just use Linux? One of the main selling points of Windows has historically been backwards compatibility. In some scenarios that matters, in some it doesn't. Look at your needs and pick the OS that fits.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is not a realistic alternative on the desktop. It's too unreliable.

Additionally, LibreOffice is not suitable for real world use as it will ruin the layout of your MS Office documents (which still dominate the business world).

So will MS Office, though. I've seen more and worse layout mangling from mismatching versions of MS Office than anything I've seen between LibreOffice and MS Office. In fact, the computers where I work actually keep a copy of LibreOffice installed just for opening certain files saved in very old versions of MS Office that current versions of MS Office can no longer properly display.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[jones_supa]

Yeah but still. I wouldn't take the risk of using LO in enterprise context. It has ruined my day too many times.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Brulath]

Please be more specific because the whole NT line shares the same driver model (the most significant changes were actually in win2k with the addition of PnP) and security model.

A very large portion of Vista's negative perception was directly related to crashes resulting from Microsoft altering the driver model and requiring hardware manufacturers to produce new drivers to support it; the new drivers were buggy and crashed a lot. They didn't backport DirectX 10 to XP because of the driver model changes (well, probably more for business reasons, but that's the technical excuse they used). Graphics driver crashes don't take out the system as much now, either, as they can be caught and have the device reset where XP would produce a bluescreen. Clearly it changed.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[dbreeze]

I believe a large number of those Windows users would be happy Linux users if not for the many years of FUD put forth by Microsoft to maintain their market dominance.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[dbreeze]

I suspect Microsoft’s inability to publish and adhere to a FULLY open and documented implementation of their document formats is the culprit.
Didn't they get busted for abusing their monopoly position already? Damn shame they didn't get punished for it.......

Re:Greedy Corporation

[BarbaraHudson]

3 years support (LTS) is NOT long-term support in this business.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

The new look is clean and elegant. It displays everything in an easy to view manner and stays out of my way. Vista/7's UI was all about tacky bling that imposed itself on the user at every chance.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

The number one thing I want out of my desktop OS is for it to work. Windows does. Linux does not.

Seriously, can you name one thing that a Linux desktop isn't absolutely worthless for? It doesn't support much hardware and has poor support for that which it does. It doesn't have any professional software, so I can't do work on it.

You want choices? Then Linux is the worst OS you could use.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think W7 isn't showing its age, you need to work with W8.1 for a week or so.

The boot time alone is worth the upgrade.

Re: Greedy Corporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 7 has been out of maimstream support since January. It may be stable now, but its dated. It was a good OS, but if you want long term stability you've got to jump ship sooner or later. 10 is looking to be a decent upgarde, stability wise.

Re:Greedy Corporation

[dywolf]

and?

Re:Greedy Corporation

[dywolf]

ROFLMAO.
If ever there was an obvious shill.

Arrgggg

[Anonymous Coward]

That make me want to send someone to walk the plank!!!

Bummer!

[nospam007]

Long John Silver, Blackbeard and Henry Morgan will have to give away some of their treasure then.

Re:Bummer!

[Dunbal]

Technically (Sir) Henry Morgan was a buccaneer and a privateer, not a pirate. The difference is subtle but exists nonetheless. Pirates didn't receive knighthoods or governerships but rather the short end of a noose. I say this as I look out the window of my Panama apartment across the water to the ruins of "old Panama" which he plundered and burned to the ground...

Re:Bummer!

[armanox]

Agreed. Admiral Morgan would have been okay to use Windows 10 as long as it is within the terms of his Letter of Marque ;) . As soon as it expires though, his Windows license probably does too.

Re:Bummer!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you live by Colon Harbor?

Only pirates?

[nospam007]

So freebooters, marauders, raiders, privateers and corsairs will be OK?

Re:Only pirates?

[armanox]

Since privateers are backed legally, they should be okay as long as it falls within the terms of the Letter or Marque

Clean install possible?

[jones_supa]

Does anyone know if a clean install will be possible if I have a legitimate key for a previous version?

Re:Clean install possible?

[modmans2ndcoming]

You will probably do it like you can with windows 8.1. download an app from MS that will generate an ISO and do a fresh install.

Re:Clean install possible?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Yes. Given a valid Win 7/8/8.1 license, you will be able to download an ISO file to create your install media. This was outlined in January.

Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. All that talk about pirates getting free Windows 10 upgrades? Not happening.

Since when it is "good" to reward pirates, and to who (other than pirates!) it sounded "good"?

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[David_Hart]

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. All that talk about pirates getting free Windows 10 upgrades? Not happening.

Since when it is "good" to reward pirates, and to who (other than pirates!) it sounded "good"?

The Security community, maybe... Not all Pirates are smart Pirates. Some end up getting scurvy (trojans, spyware, etc) as a result of their pirating ways.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[ArchieBunker]

The more people (even pirates) who use Windows, the better off Microsoft is.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Dunbal]

Pirates will "reward" themselves. Yarr.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Amateur.

You subcontract out as a privateer. Outsourcing at it's finest.

So, you get paid to steal.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Guy From V]

Maybe pirates could modify their theme to a bright green or orange?

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[pushing-robot]

There's tons of extant hardware from the late Core 2 era which would still be perfectly serviceable were they not loaded with XP (obsolete) or Vista (slow and obsolete). Microsoft charges so much for standalone licenses that you might as well buy a new PC these days.

I don't have much sympathy for pirates either, but this also means millions of potential PCs for elderly/low income/third world families will now be just that much e-waste.

And yes, I know Linux is still free, but I've yet to find a distro that the average user can accomplish more with than browsing web sites.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. All that talk about pirates getting free Windows 10 upgrades? Not happening.

Since when it is "good" to reward pirates, and to who (other than pirates!) it sounded "good"?

The Security community, maybe... Not all Pirates are smart Pirates. Some end up getting scurvy (trojans, spyware, etc) as a result of their pirating ways.

O.K., i accept that as a logical answer to the second part of my question, but it sounds a bit like the Medical community would prefer rapist to choose children because it helps their battle against the spread of herpes - you know, the less chances for a rapist to get herpes, the better for public health...

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

The more people (even pirates) who use Windows, the better off Microsoft is.

I have heard that many times - sometimes it sounds to me like "the more people (even thieves) who use [insert any product], the better off [product's company] is".... maybe i should go steal a Mercedes from the factory, you know, me Greek, helping the German economy a bit!

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Pirates will "reward" themselves. Yarr.

In Communist Slashdot, pirates reward ... - oh, never mind, just ignore me!

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

There's tons of extant hardware from the late Core 2 era which would still be perfectly serviceable were they not loaded with XP (obsolete) or Vista (slow and obsolete). Microsoft charges so much for standalone licenses that you might as well buy a new PC these days.

I don't have much sympathy for pirates either, but this also means millions of potential PCs for elderly/low income/third world families will now be just that much e-waste.

And yes, I know Linux is still free, but I've yet to find a distro that the average user can accomplish more with than browsing web sites.

I am glad that you don't have much sympathy for pirates either: and you already gave the solution to yourself (in bold by me, not that you need my help!) - others (even Slashdoters - althrough sometimes i am afraid that some of them don't like people like us...) may help you choose an appropriate distro.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Immerman]

The differece of course being that nobody has ever been directly hurt by software piracy - at worst someone has been deprived of potential profits. And even that assumes that the infringer would have otherwise resorted to buying the software, which is rarely the case.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[amiga3D]

More apt example would be the Medical Professionals would prefer that rapists use condoms to prevent the spread of diseases.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[BarbaraHudson]

I am glad that you don't have much sympathy for pirates either: and you already gave the solution to yourself (in bold by me, not that you need my help!) - others (even Slashdoters - althrough sometimes i am afraid that some of them don't like people like us...) may help you choose an appropriate distro.

The problem with that is the answer changes, depending on both who you ask and what day of the week it is :-)

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[jarfil]

It used to be that if you installed Windows 7 in a VM, without entering a valid serial number, it would run for 60 days... after which it would show a nag screen at boot time and switch your desktop background to black.

I guess black is fit for a "pirate theme".

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[amiga3D]

The fact is that piracy helps Microsoft. Those pirates were never going to be customers of Microsoft. They are looking for a free OS and the easiest solution is to pirate windows since that is drop dead easy and the defacto standard. If they could not pirate windows then they'd simply install Linux and use that. While there would no doubt be occasional hiccups those can be worked around. This would cause the Linux install base to swell which would mean that companies would start to market hardware as "Linux compatible" which would cause even more people to switch to free software and that could lead to Microsoft's downfall. This is what they fear most and it's why it is still drop dead easy to pirate windows. Whatever microsoft may be it isn't stupid. They lose no money and cock block competitors at the same time.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Immerman]

Except that unauthorized software copying costs the source company nothing - unlike the Mercedes factory that faces considerable per-unit costs. Meanwhile in the *specific case* of OS, office, and a few other genres of software, vendor lock-in is achieved largely via network effects. Get enough people using illegitimate software on their personal PCs, and companies will tend to use the same thing. And *they* run the risk of license audits, so will tend to buy legal software. If most individuals were acclimated to using Libre Office, do you really think companies would still be inclined to pay the MS Office tax and have to keep track of licenses, etc.?

For non-infrastructure software of course the argument evaporates - Valve gets no benefit from people pirating Half Life.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

The differece of course being that nobody has ever been directly hurt by software piracy - at worst someone has been deprived of potential profits.

And of course i can use that "of course nobady has ever been directly hurt by stealing [insert product] - at worst someone has been deprived of potential profits. And even that assumes that the infringer would have otherwise resorted to buying the software, which is rarely the case." reasoning for justification if i "help myself" with few things i want/need, provided i don't use violent.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

O.K., even that...

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

I am glad that you don't have much sympathy for pirates either: and you already gave the solution to yourself (in bold by me, not that you need my help!) - others (even Slashdoters - althrough sometimes i am afraid that some of them don't like people like us...) may help you choose an appropriate distro.

The problem with that is the answer changes, depending on both who you ask and what day of the week it is :-)

I know my dear fellow Slashdoter, that's why i avoided to give a specific answer - i already have enough problems defending Microsoft (!), i don't need any hate for prefering Deb... ooops!

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

As you can understand from my comments, i dislike piracy. And because i agree with you that switching to free software is an option, with many benefits (even if i don't dislike proprietary software), i dislike piracy even more.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Except that unauthorized software copying costs the source company nothing - unlike the Mercedes factory that faces considerable per-unit costs. Meanwhile in the *specific case* of OS, office, and a few other genres of software, vendor lock-in is achieved largely via network effects. Get enough people using illegitimate software on their personal PCs, and companies will tend to use the same thing. And *they* run the risk of license audits, so will tend to buy legal software. If most individuals were acclimated to using Libre Office, do you really think companies would still be inclined to pay the MS Office tax and have to keep track of licenses, etc.?

For non-infrastructure software of course the argument evaporates - Valve gets no benefit from people pirating Half Life.

Even if i agree with anything you write (i have many objections), there is something called "ethos/ethics" (a Greek word -yes, a fucking Greek lecturing about fucking Greek!- that means -among other things- the personality we create for ourselves by repeating some behaviour.)

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[I'm New Around Here]

No. If you "help yourself" to my car, I am directly hurt because I cannot get to my job, and I have to spend a lot of money to get a new car.

I don't pirate music and movies, but I agree with Immerman about the exaggeration of the results of others doing so.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

No. If you "help yourself" to my car, I am directly hurt because I cannot get to my job, and I have to spend a lot of money to get a new car.

But if i "help myself" to some software, its developers would not have cars and jobs... so i guess problem solved!?

I don't pirate music and movies, but I agree with Immerman about the exaggeration of the results of others doing so.

So... you have ethics.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Amateur.

You subcontract out as a privateer. Outsourcing at it's finest.

So, you get paid to steal.

...and you don't have to bother with all that "getting elected" crap!

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[AmiMoJo]

Not entirely true, it costs Microsoft bandwidth for security patches.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[hairyfeet]

If you truly believe what you are preaching? Then step right up and take "The Hairyfeet Challenge", now celebrating its eighth year of watching "consumer friendly" Linux distros puke and die!

Take ANY mainstream consumer oriented (not LTS, because even Ubuntu advises against mainstream users using LTS) from FIVE years ago, this simulates a 5 year typical lifecycle. This BTW is less than HALF a windows support cycle, so I'm cutting linux a break. Lets say you use Ubuntu, that would be Ubuntu 9.10 and can be downloaded from their archive. Install it on ANY PC, desktop or laptop (NOT VM as that isn't real hardware and comes with special drivers) that has a wireless card. Wireless is required because more and more mainstream users are ditching wires and nobody wants a laptop that doesn't have wireless, do they?

During this phase you are the system builder so CLI (which is usually required because Linux driver support is poor) IS ALLOWED. Once its installed you are no longer the system builder but THE USER, so like a windows user you are ONLY allowed to use the GUI. You then get to "enjoy the freedom" of using nothing but the GUI (because if you can't even update the thing without CLI you're no match for windows are you) of updating to current...with ubuntu that is SEVEN RELEASES, just FYI. You will film this and post it to youtube, you only have to upload the final install process of each release and a pic of the device manager showing working hardware complete with wireless showing WPA V2 connection, but the complete video should be hosted on dropbox to prove you aren't faking it.

BTW in case it isn't clear working hardware means WORKING HARDWARE, it does NOT mean wireless that can't use WPA, it does NOT mean a PC with no sound or VESA video, it means FULLY WORKING HARDWARE and again if you are unclear please see the highlighted areas as completing the challenge REQUIRES vids of the final install of each upgrade (last I checked that would be EIGHT for Ubuntu, and around SIX for most others, be sure to have room on your SD Card!) along with a 5 minute video of the end of each install showing that upon completion you could go to hardware manager and had 100% functional hardware with NO FUTZING. After all if you have to futz with the thing just to have functional drivers it isn't on the same level as Windows now is it? BTW the first Windows that passed the challenge was Win2K (RTM to EOL with ZERO failed drivers, 10 years of support) WinXP (14 years, ZERO fails) and both Vista and 7 can go from RTM to current with ZERO failures. So lets see them snappies, otherwise you are just throwing yet more bullshit, which if you want bullshit see "many eyes" which gave us such well vetted code the world lost billions on heartbleed and will probably lose billions more on stopping the current BASHing...what quality!

Just FYI I've already taken the challenge with several distros that guys like you push, Ubuntu (failed in just 2), PCLOS (failed in 1!), Fedora (2) and about a dozen more and I can't wait to see you take the challenge...but you won't, even though 1.- Its free, 2.- Takes less than 3 hours, and 3.- Would show your desktop is ready for the masses....how do I know you won't? Because if you try the challenge you'll see what I've been saying for over a decade is true, that Torvalds 1970s throwback driver model (which just FYI nobody else uses, not even FOSS OSes like BSD) is a pile of shit and his "let the kernel devs handle drivers" worked just fine in 1993 when all the drivers combined could fit on a floppy but just does not scale. That is why you get such "great support" like this for webcams, why even FOSS darling Firefox disables hardware acceleration thus crippling performance, hell I could go on all day!

So p

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if the person is stupid enough to let Microsoft update their pirated copy in the first place.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

True ignorance. Windows drivers are written by manufacturers for almost all hardware because it is the most common operating system by a large margin. Your bullshit "challenge" ultimately boils down to manufacturer driver support for new hardware and the fact that Linux doesn't have the luxury of forcing manufacturers to do all the driver work. Your webcam comment link just whines about how really old webcams don't work well on Linux (big fucking deal, go spend $40 on a brand new webcam, you cheap asshole) and your "no 3D accelerated Firefox 4.0" link is outdated, product-specific, and had no noticeable effect on Firefox rendering for anyone since 3D accelerating a 2D interface already running on top of 2D accelerated video drivers was absolutely fucking pointless from the minute someone thought it up.

Not one single complaint you have matters for running a recent Linux distribution on a relatively new computer. Linux software upgrades cost a lot less than buying a copy of Windows 7.

The reality is that you're an idiot with an agenda whose archaic points of comparison are parallel port webcams not working, VESA video drivers, and WPA1 support. Keep crying though, because your tears are delicious!

Re: Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Billly Gates]

No Hairys point is that linux lacks an abi based on theological arguments from RMS. I posted similar sentiments on neowin.net which is windows fanboy land and still saw the foaming of the mouths on how they had it all so much better than 98 the last ones these users used.

Windows Vista and later have a driver model that makes it harder to crash and be as buggy compared to XP too. Fail backs and other features.

Add forks to X with Xorg using a different config file than xfree86. SystemD replacing init scriprs and shit breaks left and right!

I quit linux in 2011 for these reasons and was already dual booting for 5 years prior until I gave up the linux obsession and 7 finally being what Windows should have been. It is 2015 and vm technology lime hyperV and virtual box are free for non server use. Linux running on them is fine enough for me on a 4 core 8 threaded system with raid ssds.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Brand new Lenovo Ideapad. UEFI, 1080p amd/ati graphics, dual-band wireless N (Intel), 16GB RAM, SSD/Sata hybrid. It shipped with Windows 8.1. I resized Windows (from within windows) and installed Kubuntu. No "futzing" required. Almost everything is working in 'buntu: HDMI out, Blueray, the works, multi-display. The only thing I've found that isn't working is the SSD drive that Windows thrashes while it runs, Kubuntu just ignores it and still thrashes the SATA less than windows.

No modifications required. The hardest thing to setup was netflix-desktop, which may be irrelevant soon if the Firefox DRM makes its way to Linux as an option/extra.

The most "futzing" I had to do was planning what hardware to buy in the first place. None of this was out of the ordinary though, reading reviews, looking at specs, trying to keep it under $1,000 but still containing some basics that I wanted to see like 1080p display.

Re: Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer it the other way around but Kubuntu has treated me well over the years. The only time I really HAVE to use Windows is at work. At home I have Win7 installed in a VM for the odd use. I think it has been about 6 months since I last wanted to experiment on it with some code for work.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Well Sir, as someone preaching against piracy, i preach this "use Linux" as a way to save our souls (not our minds!), so this great challenge of yours is something i may use (with appropriate credits) the next time i will write something good about Microsoft.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

The reality is that you're an idiot with an agenda whose archaic points of comparison are parallel port webcams not working, VESA video drivers, and WPA1 support. Keep crying though, because your tears are delicious!

I think the point was not that VESA video drivers are not working, but rather that the hardware is not properly supported out of the box and the system falls back to using VESA drivers. Not that this should normally happen without being reasonably easy to fix by installing up to date drivers, though.

Also, when it comes to supporting old hardware, Windows is actually often worse than Linux, because driver support is mostly up to the hardware vendors, and they would rather have the user buy new hardware than spend effort on writing drivers for old products that are no longer manufactured.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's tons of extant hardware from the late Core 2 era which would still be perfectly serviceable were they not loaded with XP (obsolete) or Vista (slow and obsolete).

Those old PCs would become less serviceable after installing modern OS and software which require gigabytes of RAM even for web browsing.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

As you can understand from my comments, i dislike piracy. And because i agree with you that switching to free software is an option, with many benefits (even if i don't dislike proprietary software), i dislike piracy even more.

So, you agree that piracy is ultimately good for Microsoft, because it helps maintaining their monopoly ? The market share of Linux and other open source software is often even worse in poor countries than in Western Europe and the USA, while the rate of piracy tends to be very high in those countries.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[znrt]

As you can understand from my comments, i dislike piracy. And because i agree with you that switching to free software is an option, with many benefits (even if i don't dislike proprietary software), i dislike piracy even more.

and i dislike the bullshit in equating use of software without a license to piracy. so what? do you have something interesting to say about the topic or not?

i don't. but that's just because i don't give a crap about windows and its licenses. i have non-genuine w7 to run games, i would't personally use it for anything else, nor do i want it, so why should i pay any license? and no doubt i will have a non-genuine w-whatever as soon as games ask for it. that's a deal between game developers and microsoft, they should sort that out themselves or else let me choose. i don't think the game developer has any issue with my windows being non-genuine, so why should i? you calling me a pirate because of this only makes you look funny. you know, 'pirates', those guys used to barbecue your guts after pulling them out of you after raping you. you ip zealots really should get a grip already.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

As you can understand from my comments, i dislike piracy. And because i agree with you that switching to free software is an option, with many benefits (even if i don't dislike proprietary software), i dislike piracy even more.

and i dislike the bullshit in equating use of software without a license to piracy. so what? do you have something interesting to say about the topic or not?

I made various comments already (some modded as "interesting" from what i see now) - "do YOU have something interesting to say about the topic or not?"

i don't.

So: "YOU don't have something interesting to say about the topic"!

but that's just because i don't give a crap about windows and its licenses.

Hmmm... it's because you are just not interesting in this discussion or because you are a pirate?

i have non-genuine w7 to run games, i would't personally use it for anything else, nor do i want it, so why should i pay any license? and no doubt i will have a non-genuine w-whatever as soon as games ask for it. that's a deal between game developers and microsoft, they should sort that out themselves or else let me choose. i don't think the game developer has any issue with my windows being non-genuine, so why should i?

You just answered my previous question: YOU ARE A PIRATE...

you calling me a pirate because of this only makes you look funny. you know, 'pirates', those guys used to barbecue your guts after pulling them out of you after raping you. you ip zealots really should get a grip already.

O.K, you are right, this "pirate" term is stupid - YOU ARE A THIEF.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[znrt]

words have meaning, meaning is important. you even spout that proudly on your own sig.

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of THEFT
1a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

so since i'm not depriving anyone of anything, not even 'loss of rightful revenue" because there never was any to begin with, what i do can harldy be theft, no matter how much you want to put it in bold letters and ... well, twist the meaning of words to misrepresent it. catch the irony, troll.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

words have meaning, meaning is important. you even spout that proudly on your own sig.

I am really glad that you read my sig (Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names.") - it is because of my sig that i wrote to you: "O.K, you are right, this "pirate" term is stupid - YOU ARE A THIEF".

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Full Definition of THEFT 1a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

You are in the right path for wisdom - glory to Antisthenes!

so since i'm not depriving anyone of anything, not even 'loss of rightful revenue" because there never was any to begin with, what i do can harldy be theft, no matter how much you want to put it in bold letters and ... well, twist the meaning of words to misrepresent it. catch the irony, troll.

In the right path, but far away from wisdom... yet!

Since in my sig i also write "excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!", can you help me find the right word (not phrase) for a person who uses the product of someone else's work without the producer's permission?

Keep Calm - Keep Walking...

Re: Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[hairyfeet]

Thanks Billy...and notice how NONE OF THEM have the balls to actually take the challenge, even though I rigged the living hell out of it in Linux' favor? I did NOT require any of the truly modern devices people expect like 1.- Printer support, 2.- Support for phones and other mobile devices, 3.- Hardware video acceleration (which has been in Windows since fricking Vista), 4.- Support for LTE 4G which many new laptops come with. And if that is not enough? They only have to show FIVE years of support instead of Windows TEN years...fucking half, and still they bitch and moan and whine like little bitches?

But the reason the Challenge has lasted so long is because of what you got to see with your own eyes...Torvalds driver model is older than Disco Dan and more brittle than an 86 year old on her third hip! I mean for fucks sake they are admitting that their OS can't even do half of what Windows does and they have the fucking gall to be pissed at me? Why the fuck aren't they bitching at Torvalds for keeping such a shitty poorly designed driver schema that gets fucking curbstomped by Windows 2K?

Ya wanna know the best part Billy? The reason they try to give for keeping the shitfest driver model ends up showing they are full of shit and hypocrites to boot! They say "boo hoo, if we had a functional driver model then devs wouldn't give us their driver code precious, boo hoo"...yet what do we see in every.single.fucking.article. about graphics in Linux? A billion fucking posts squeeing like fangirls for Nvidia, who issues nothing BUT locked down binary blobs and who flips the bird at the very beliefs they say they hold so damned dear!

This is why I have ZERO doubt that in 12 years the Hairyfeet Challenge will celebrate 20 years without a single "consumer friendly" (boy isn't that a joke, about as friendly as handing somebody a hammer, pointing at a forest, and saying "there is your house bitch go build it!") distro coming even close to passing. This is why the OEMs treat Linux like plague blankets, why shops like mine will strip a box for parts before putting Linux on it, its because the last version of Windows Linux could compete with was Windows 98.

I can grab any box out the back, install Win2K RTM and drivers for that hardware and then apply all ten years of SPs and updates and wadda ya know, all the hardware STILL FRICKING WORKS, until they can show that they can pass the challenge, that even one, just one, consumer friendly distro can even go half that time without shitting on its own drivers and dying? Then Linux is nothing but a joke, it is a Mickey Mouse hobbyist desktop that nobody should take seriously.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.... I seem to remember Windows 98 original shitting all over my hardware at the time. (98 SE was better.) Seem to recall Windows ME doing the same. Seem to remember Windows Vista going even further on the sucking-balls-no-drivers-for-you-so-fuck-you realm. And even the sacred and precious Windows 7 only worked with about three fourths of HP printers with HP saying, "No we're not planning on building a Win 7 driver for this model." And today if there's any driver problems with Win 7 or especially 8 you're more or less fucked.

So I'll take your challenge when Microsoft manages to last six years without making an OS that doesn't blow chunks all over its' userbase.

In the meantime, I'll stick with what works - consumer friendly be damned - but makes it relatively easy if you're willing to use the intelligence that a computer user should actually have.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[znrt]

can you help me find the right word (not phrase) for a person who uses the product of someone else's work without the producer's permission?

i have no need to define such a person because i see nothing special or particularly defining in that act, so please suit yourself. my point, however, is that equating this with 'theft' or 'piracy' can't possibly be attributed to lack of knowledge of the language, but very much with deliberate misrepresentation and intoxication. not saying you are the source, though, it's very widespread bullshit and my impression is that you just swallowed it without critical thinking. i hereby just invite you to deeper reflection. how would YOU call such a person?

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

can you help me find the right word (not phrase) for a person who uses the product of someone else's work without the producer's permission?

i have no need to define such a person because i see nothing special or particularly defining in that act, so please suit yourself. my point, however, is that equating this with 'theft' or 'piracy' can't possibly be attributed to lack of knowledge of the language, but very much with deliberate misrepresentation and intoxication. not saying you are the source, though, it's very widespread bullshit and my impression is that you just swallowed it without critical thinking. i hereby just invite you to deeper reflection. how would YOU call such a person?

If your question ("how would YOU call such a person?") is about the "person who uses the product of someone else's work without the producer's permission" then my answer is: THIEF!

If your question is about "a person who just call YOU a THIEF" then my answer is to clarify you question (i honestly don't understand - i try to answer all questions).

In any case: KEEP CALM - KEEP WALKING...

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[znrt]

sigh ... since you insist in totally ignoring the accepted meaning of 'theft' i assume you are not interested in any rational discussion whatsoever. as for me, i'm not interested in watching you writing 'thief' in a loop, in bold caps and with exclamation marks, as if you were having a mental breakdown. you have made your point. have a cookie. take care.

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[antiperimetaparalogo]

But YOU insist in totaly ignoring the fact that BOTH what you posted as "the accepted meaning of 'theft'" and my own (i.e., "person who uses the product of someone else's work without the producer's permission") define YOUR actions and YOU - yes, i think i have made my point, take care my friend... and don't forget Antisthenes!

Re:Since when rewarding pirates is "good"?

[znrt]

with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

this is also necessary condition for 'theft' in about any legal code. this condition is not met in this case, and unless you can prove it is, your discourse just doesn't stand.

if you're betting on 'loss of rightful revenue', it's a skewed and controversial concept. the problem here is the term 'rightful' which is a nebulose trying to coerce 'their right to sell' into 'my obligation to buy'. needless to say, i don't buy it. but even then, assuming some imaginary context where that 'rightful revenue' really existed ... you can't 'deprive' someone of something they never had. so without deprivation it can't possibly be theft, and i'm not a thief. you should be really able to grasp this simple and fundamental fact.

call it something else. take your pick, i don't care. but calling it theft is irrational or dishonest or both.

And now for a real question

[phayes]

What is "the supported lifetime of that device" supposed to mean, in particular as regards to VMs? Being forced to buy a new windows version very two-three years?

Re:And now for a real question

[modmans2ndcoming]

It means you can't transfer the license to another machine. And the WAAS model they are showing here is not what corporations will use anyway so VDI deployment will still be based on yearly license fees as it has always been.

Re:And now for a real question

[freeze128]

That was a phrase that also stood out to me. Why does Microsoft get to determine the lifetime of *MY* hardware? Don't they realize that I can increase the useful lifetime of my PC by upgrading the CPU? (in some cases)

Re:And now for a real question

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, regardless of your motivation, it's because you're silly enough to pay for it.

Re:And now for a real question

[SpankiMonki]

mmm...I had Win8.1 running in VirtualBox on a computer whose X58 motherboard failed. Couldn't replace the mobo, so I built a Z97 machine with (obviously) completely different specs. I reinstalled WIn8.1 in a VM on that box, and it's been running without complaint for over a year now.

Of course, this is not a corporate environment, but MS doesn't seem to mind what I've done with transferring between VMs on different machines.

(this was done using an OEM version of Windows BTW)

Re:And now for a real question

[Anonymous Coward]

What is "the supported lifetime of that device" supposed to mean, in particular as regards to VMs? Being forced to buy a new windows version very two-three years?

Naw, that's what KMSAuto is for. Arrr

Re:And now for a real question

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Microsoft get to determine the lifetime of *MY* hardware?

Buy him out, boys!

Re:And now for a real question

[phantomfive]

That was a phrase that also stood out to me. Why does Microsoft get to determine the lifetime of *MY* hardware? Don't they realize that I can increase the useful lifetime of my PC by upgrading the CPU?

At least in one case they've changed hardware requirements to benefit Intel. So yes, they realize it, and don't particularly care as long as you get Windows.

Re:And now for a real question

[amiga3D]

You're a consumer and they don't give a shit about you. They don't have to because you're going to keep using their software because you're their bitch. Pay up bitch.

Re:And now for a real question

[Solandri]

Why does Microsoft get to determine the lifetime of *MY* hardware?

They're not determining the lifetime of your hardware. You're free to continue using Windows 7 or 8 on that hardware as long as you like (or at least until they stop supporting it - 2020 for Win 7, 2023 for Win 8).

They're just setting limits on who they'll give a copy of Windows 10 to for free. They're the ones giving the stuff away for free, they get to decide the rules for who qualifies to get it for free. If you don't qualify, you are no worse off than you were before.

Re:And now for a real question

[rsmith-mac]

The lifetime of your computer is, and always will be, your motherboard. Once it becomes old, outdated, and time for a replacement*, then you also must purchase a new Windows license. That is how it already works today with OEM copies of Windows.

* If it fails, then that's a different story. MS allows motherboard swaps, but it's basically an honor system and they'll stop approving non-human activations if you start abusing it

Re:And now for a real question

[modmans2ndcoming]

I have transferred my license in 8.1 but we were talking about what they said for Windows 10 and "Supported life of the device"

Re:And now for a real question

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is still trying to push that the hardware stack(the computer) and the software stack(the OS) are one and the same and that the Windows license is also the computer's license. They've been trying this tack for many years. Unfortunately, it's as weak an argument as the "Internet Explorer can't be unbundled from Windows" argument they tried to get off during their monopoly trial in the late 90s.

Re: And now for a real question

[Billly Gates]

Microsoft has no plans to ever leave Windows 10. It is like macosx with minor annual updates. MS makes no promises but states no Windows 11 team nor plans for one unless a need arises.

This is the best of both worlds as post XP world has split comouting. One hates change and if ain't broke don't fix it etc. Other wants mobile and cloud features added.

So MS will make money by app store, azure, office 365, onedrive, and other add ons via a service model.

So I see no problems.

Re: And now for a real question

[phayes]

Sorry, been burned too often by Microsoft's guarantees that they go back on.

A VM has no upper limit on lifespan so why use "the supported lifetime of that device" unless they are planning on obsolescence.

Re:And now for a real question

[phayes]

I was the first poster in this thread & you seem to have overlooked an essential part of it: Virtualisation.

The lifetime of a VM is not limited by the motherboard, so what the hell is "the supported lifetime of that device" supposed to mean?

Re:And now for a real question

[Whiteox]

MS doesn't care about your (or my) hardware, just all the Drones out there. They are estimating 1 billion devices. You, me and many others are just an insignificant piece of fly droppings on their windows. It's everyone else out there that will buy the new devices or upgrade for 'free' and the myriad apps they are convincing the developers to move over to the Win 10 store that they are counting on.

Re:And now for a real question

[AbRASiON]

Buy any off the shelf Dell / HP business workstation for under $1000 and then double the ram and put in a 500gb SSD, I'd be surprised if you got LESS than 7 years out of the machine for word processing, youtube, email, browsing etc. :/ MS definitely best not be dictating the lifespan of machines.

Too bad

[Guy From V]

Pirates are just going to have to suck it up and totally go without Windows 10 now no matter how badly they want it.

Re:Too bad

[Feral Nerd]

Pirates are just going to have to suck it up and totally go without Windows 10 now no matter how badly they want it.

I know that some people have to use Windows for work related reasons, but why would anybody want to use Windows? That is like wanting to have a root canal even though you don't need one.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. Not that I pirate Windows, but I definitely don't want of Windows 10, even for free! Based on the current preview build, I'd much sooner pay for Windows 7... It's just too awful!

Re:Too bad

[armanox]

Change the start menu back to the XAML style and it's pretty usable.

Re:Too bad

[ArcadeMan]

Why would anybody want to use Windows?

Games.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand how subjectivity works and people who disagree with me make me irrational and stupid

I mean, that's what you wanted to say, right?

CAPTCHA: abrasive

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that some people have to use Windows for work related reasons, but why would anybody want to use Windows? That is like wanting to have a root canal even though you don't need one.

Even that's starting to change. The whole XP EOL put a lot of pain on a lot of businesses, not always due to lack of money or sheer reluctance to update. Legacy software that won't run on anything newer than XP and bespoke and/or niche factory or medical machines with proprietary drivers that only talk to XP (even models bought brand new in 2014) are just two examples of what I'm talking about.

A lot of businesses are getting very fed up with jumping through Microsoft's hoops and are already making plans and laying the groundwork for transitioning off of Windows to the greatest extent possible over the next decade or two. Yes, it's going to take a while. Yes, it may not be outwardly visible for some time. Yes, not everything may be able to be moved, but sooner or later product lines die out and processes and/or equipment becomes obsolete. You can bet the replacements will be running on Linux in many places if at all possible.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

why would anybody want to use Windows?

Because updates are less likely to mess things up and my favorite programs work with it. Because if enough users disagree with a design change they have an effective voice (money).

Re:Too bad

[amiga3D]

Most people can barely use windows. You expect them to opt for an OS that has zero support from hardware manufacturers?

Re:Too bad

[amiga3D]

Just like they went without windows 3.1, windows 95, windows 98, windows ME (actually most of them skipped that abortion) windows XP, Vista, windows 7, windows 8?

Re:Too bad

[dunkelfalke]

Because it works fine and is a comfortable operating system. Because a huge amount of applications and games are written for Windows. Because some people genuinely feel the same about alternative operating systems.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you want to get punched in the face?

Do you want to get punched in the face for $1M?

Can you spot the difference?

Re:Too bad

[Osgeld]

cause it doesnt cost 10 grand like a mac, and it actually has software people want to use unlike linux

Re:Too bad

[AmiMoJo]

How hard can it be to scrounge up a valid licence key? How many old XP/Vista machines are there at the local dump that you could steal one from? You can buy the stickers on eBay for next to nothing, stuck to an old laptop base and listed as spare parts to avoid breaking the rules.

Re:Too bad

[sound vision]

The top three reasons are application support, application support, and application support. Things like video games and production-grade multimedia software are the big ones, but you also have a lot of lower profile programs that are highly specialized and will only run on Windows. Hardware support is an issue too. Not as much as it was 10 or 15 years ago, but you still can't pull any random peripheral off the shelf and be confident it works in Linux without checking. Even components that do technically function will have power management issues, which can range anywhere in severity from "minor annoyance" to "complete showstopper" for laptops.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anybody want to use Windows?

Games.

Windows 7 is better for that purpose.

Win 10 has DWM* enabled all the time like Win8 which means permanent Vsync that cannot be disabled ever. If you like your games to run smoothly in windowed or borderless-fullscreen without dropping frames constantly then you don't want Windows 10.

* On Windows 7, you need to disable Aero to fix this. Classic or Aero Basic themes are required.

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I must have just imagined disabling vsync in my many games on Windows 8 then.

That's incorrect

[Anonymous Coward]

All upgrades are free to pirates.

Windows XP

[Anonymous Coward]

One could also make the argument that nobody needs anything more than XP (which I happen to agree with).

The only thing I really miss on XP is a modern Direct X. The whole security patch thing is bogus - there's a registry key that lets you get security updates till like 2018 or so. M$ is too greedy to properly support XP for everybody unless you're a 1%'er or corporation.

Re:Windows XP

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct.

Re:Windows XP

[tom229]

The major reason to use 7 over xp, besides xp's EOL from Microsoft, is the 4gb RAM limitation caused by the 32 bit address register. While there is a 64bit version, if you've ever used it you'll learn pretty quickly that driver and application support is terrible for it. That's why I upgraded to 7 years ago.

Re:Windows XP

[Khyber]

You're only losing driver and application support because you're not using Windows 2003 drivers, and applications that would work with Windows 2003.

Re: Windows XP

[Billly Gates]

Yep. I am sure XP will work wonderfully on 4k screens, tablets, uefi sysyems, etc.

Re:Windows XP

[Anonymous Coward]

you'll learn pretty quickly that driver and application support is terrible for it.

... or you learned that "XP x64" was a misnamed "Server 2003 x64 Workstation Edition" and 2k3 x64 drivers worked just fine.

Re:Windows XP

[Anonymous Coward]

For me, it's the lack of the Desktop Window Manager that makes XP a decroded piece of shit.

Re:Windows XP

[bored]

And the funny thing about that is a few minutes with google might give you a few ideas on how to get around the _SOFTWARE LICENSE_ enforced 4GB limit! Because even 32-bit XP is running with PAE enabled! Your out of support, why not invalidate your license and just add more ram?

Re:Windows XP

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll also gain a lot of graphics performance. Going from XP 32bit to Win7 64bit on the same hardware resulted in a good 2x bump in graphics driver performance.

Win7 simply has the better architecture over XP. And the main problems that Win 8 / 8.1 has is Microsoft's desire to move the UI to something that can be replicated in a web page. Under the hood it was a good upgrade over Win7.

Plans *are* changing

[fortfive]

if this article is to be believed.

Terry Myerson, Microsoft’s Windows chief: “We are upgrading all qualified PCs, genuine and non-genuine, to Windows 10. . .anywhere in the world. . .

but now

Terry Myerson, Microsoft's executive vice president of operating systems, has clarified the company's plans were not changing for non-genuine users . . .[but despite the earlier statement] our free offer to upgrade to Windows 10 will not apply to Non-Genuine Windows. . .

A little smelly. And just when I thought MS was working it's way back to cool.

Re:Plans *are* changing

[johanw]

I just thought they were really desperate to get everybody on the tilke-OS crap in the hope that desktop users would care for crappy "apps" on a big screen.

Re:Plans *are* changing

[Anonymous Coward]

A little smelly. And just when I thought MS was working it's way back to cool.

It is Microsoft, if you check their history every "good" deal includes enough backstabbing to ruin several other companies that bought into it. Even things like them open sourcing .Net and porting things to Linux are limited enough to make a migration to a full Microsoft stack the only logical choice for a serious C# based server project.

Re:Plans *are* changing

[JoeCommodore]

Soo.. is this the year of the Linux Desktop?

Sure runs a lot better on older hardware than Windows 10 would anyway.

Re:Plans *are* changing

[thegarbz]

And just when I thought MS was working it's way back to cool.

So to be cool a company now needs to give away it's primary product for free?

So by extending that thought there are no cool non-opensource companies out there.

Re:Plans *are* changing

[Anonymous Coward]

They will upgrade non genuine versions.

They didn't say they would upgrade them for free.
They did say they won't upgrade them for free.

Weird

[rsilvergun]

I figured they were gonna give away the OS so they could get everyone on the Office 365 and Microsoft App Store gravy trains. Whatever they're making on Windows OS pales in comparison to taking a 30% cut of every desktop application out there. Maybe they figure they'll get both. Probably right if they do.

Tell me again, why do I need Windows 10?

[QuietLagoon]

I downloaded, installed, updated and worked with the Windows 10 previews. I am tremendously underwhelmed.

.
The Start menu takes up nearly half the screen with large icons, yet truncates the text for those large icons because the text has not been allocated enough room. Really, really poor UI design.

I lost control of the Windows Update process, there were no options for me to select besides, ~allow Microsoft to brick my computer at any time~.

My versions of Windows 7 are supported with security updates until 2020.

So tell me again, why do I want to dump Windows 7 and move to Windows 10? To please Microsoft is not a valid answer.

Re:Tell me again, why do I need Windows 10?

[Daltorak]

The Start menu takes up nearly half the screen with large icons, yet truncates the text for those large icons because the text has not been allocated enough room. Really, really poor UI design.

It's configurable. You can:

1. * Resize the start menu both horizontally and vertically
2. * Make tiles larger if seeing all the text on an icon is extremely important to you.
3. * Make tiles smaller to get rid of the text altogether -- presumably the software you're running has identifiable icons.
4. * Remove all the tiles if you have a major issue with having apps that can tell you some status info without opening them
5. * Right-click Start instead of left-click to get a very simple menu of commonly-accessed Windows functions

Seems like they're adding new capabilities in this area every build, too. What's there now surely isn't representative of the final product so it's too early to make final judgments.

I lost control of the Windows Update process, there were no options for me to select besides, ~allow Microsoft to brick my computer at any time~.

This is a technical preview and Microsoft has said that they're really keen on testing their automatic update systems. That's fair, right? It's not like there's currently any benefit to you in sticking with older builds. The option to be prompted before downloading updates has indeed gone missing, but that doesn't mean it isn't coming back -- they're still very much in the middle of migrating all the classic Control Panel options into the new Metro apps.

Also, many news sites have reported that Windows 10 has the ability to prompt you for a to install any given update requiring a reboot. It also analyzes the typical idle periods for your computer and will use that as a default time for scheduling a restart but you can pick any time you like for every update. Surely you'll agree that this is an improvement over being barraged with "Restart your computer" windows every 15 minutes like it does in Windows 7.

Re:Tell me again, why do I need Windows 10?

[amiga3D]

Looks like you're good until 2020. Of course in a couple of years more and more stuff will require it. Some people still use XP in fact I have an old dell laptop that has XP installed. It's only function is to serve the programmer for my Ford as that software only runs on XP. I'd never dream of logging onto the internet with it. Never.

Re:Tell me again, why do I need Windows 10?

[johanw]

If get rid of the tiles is not an option I'll pass.

Re:Tell me again, why do I need Windows 10?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't resize it horizontally anymore... not since build 9879. Which is when they got rid of the good start menu and put in their alphabetical junk.

I'll just pirate Linux instead!

[Anonymous Coward]

FU Micro$oft!

Re:I'll just pirate Linux instead!

[jones_supa]

Exactly. I'll rather run a cracked copy of Ubuntu instead of receiving my free upgrade to Micro$oft crap.

Re:I'll just pirate Linux instead!

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, I search and search the net for a keygen for Ubuntu, couldn't find one. I gave up and just installed a cracked Windows 7 again.

Re:I'll just pirate Linux instead!

[jones_supa]

I use Ubuntu Loader by Linuz. Works every time.

Price?

[ArcadeMan]

We still haven't heard about a price for Windows XP users and completely new users.

nobody's interested

[Anonymous Coward]

I think nobody is interested anymore what microsoft is doing and what not.

Michigan is a Non-Genuine state

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . or so I've been told.

Guess that means we stick with Debian.

Of course they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirates will provide themselves a free upgrade to Windows 10.

Is that a summary mistake or is the title BS

[kelemvor4]

Either the summary or the title or both are bullshit. This is Slashdot so none of those would surprise me.
from TFS:

we will continue to offer Windows 10 to customers running devices in a Non-Genuine state.

Sounds to me like they just said they WILL offer free upgrades to pirates right there in the summary.

Re:Is that a summary mistake or is the title BS

[Anonymous Coward]

no, what that means is that they ill continue to offer (via popup nag screens every $UNIT_OF_TIME) a means of acquiring a license key to meet Genuine Windows compliance.

Re:Is that a summary mistake or is the title BS

[Anonymous Coward]

we will continue to offer Windows 10 to customers running devices in a Non-Genuine state.

Note the use of the term devices, rather than software or Windows. This speaks volumes of the arrogance of Microsoft.

Re:Is that a summary mistake or is the title BS

[Anonymous Coward]

Offering win10 to copies detected as pirated and offering it to them for zero cost are two different things. My guess is Terry is saying MS will not be blocking non-genuine copies of windows 7+ from being upgradable to win10, we're just not offering that upgrade at no-cost.

Yes, we have no bananas today

[Anonymous Coward]

Was there a point to Microsoft's statement about not giving out free bananas?

Only one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has never, and I do mean never, been able to tell a valid copy from an invalid one.

Why is Windows 10 a free upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is Windows 10 a free upgrade for Win 7 users?

Re:Why is Windows 10 a free upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is Windows 10 a free upgrade for Win 7 users?

It is an attempt to keep Windows 7 from having a large market share even when it is 10 years old, like it happened with XP. Microsoft seem to really want to get the overwhelming majority of users locked into using Windows 10 as soon as possible.

Why not Vista?

[Ark42]

I don't quite get why the cut-off is Windows 7 and not Vista? The hardware requirements are basically the same from Vista to 10, and internally that would cover a free upgrade to 10.0 for Windows versions 6.0 to 6.3.
Not to mention getting home users off IE9 would be a big plus for the web in general (assuming you've already just dropped IE8 users like you should have).

Re:Why not Vista?

[jfdavis668]

Why not offer pirates upgrades to Vista? It would get them on a supported platform and punish them at the same time.

Re:Why not Vista?

[Ark42]

No, why not offer the free upgrade to Vista+ instead of 7+ (for legitimate installs)?

Reading between the lines, now I get it...ahh-ha!

[AbRASiON]

So as an owner of ... quite a lot of Windows 7 Pro CD keys and completely legal / valid machines. I was surprised I was getting Windows 10 for free for myself to use, however I've just read the summary on this article, NOW it makes sense.

Key words in the summary are the following for the supported lifetime of that device.

So, unlike my Windows 7 key, where I can un-install it from the old PC / wipe the machine, then install it on a new machine, call a phone number, follow some prompts and re-activate my legit key, I get the impression the Windows 10 key I'm allocated will only work on ONE set of hardware, period.

I'm still not sure if they are simply going to convert my existing, legitimate Windows 7 key to a Windows 10 key or issue me a new key. Either way it sounds like a Win7 -> Win10 conversion license is is not going to be as flexible as a 'proper' Windows 10 license.

Also of note, if I recall the original articles regarding this, I have a 1 year window to make my Windows 7 keys "Win 10 free mode allowed" I'd bet good money, I can't just type the keys into a website and convert them, I bet I need to install Windows, using the Win7 key, activate it AND follow the prompts to engage "upgrade mode"
I'm seriously considering building a VM just before entering the key to actually do this.

Finally, I ALSO get the impression that a Windows 10 license / key is 'bound to' an email account / Micosoft account of some kind, which is also quite awkward for me, perhaps I can only have 1 Windows 10 license per account? Who knows.

Games?

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, they want to play games . They don't generally want windows just to have it.

But of course it won't, and nicely played MS PR

[Pecisk]

I personally really wonder where people got idea about 'free Windows 10'. Price dumping? Really? Do you even want to know how many laws Microsoft would instantly break? Also Windows is their money inflow. Even people paying 20 bucks for it is billions in the end. But this of course have helped Microsoft to hype Windows 10. Because people don't read retractions or corrections or apologies. They heard Windows 10 is free. Lot of people will make subconscious choice of sticking with Windows because of this. Ka ching! Goal achieved. Nicely played Microsoft PR executives. Real mastery.

Go go gadget Windows 10!

[Yagia]

Can they confirm to give Windows 7 to the people who bought a licence with a laptop? I used to install Windows 7 downloaded from Microsoft (the OEM copies are full of crap!) and use my serial I got with my OEM copy, and it was okay because it should. Until one day they decided it's not anymore. And when you enter your serial on Microsoft to download your copy they ask you to download it from your manufacturer which no manufacture offer it for now and sure mine (HP) will never offer it. This happened on the days they announced free Windows 10 for everyone, I thought of it like forcing OEM copies owner to upgrade to Windows 10. And was afraid they will upgrade it without asking me... Happy they changed their mind.

What about those who installed an SSD

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed an SSD on my laptop/notebook, but to do so I had to clone the original HDD (the laptop didn't have a CD/DVD reader). Now I keep getting error messages telling me that it is not a genuine version of windows. It is the same computer with the same windows - just on an SSD instead of the HDD (which I keep but only attach to the same computer. So I will not eligible for the operating system upgrade because I installed a hardware upgrade?