First Smart TVs Powered By Firefox OS On Sale In Europe, Worldwide Soon

An anonymous reader writes: The first smart TVs powered by Firefox OS have gone on sale in Europe. Panasonic's line of Viera smart TVs includes six that are powered by Firefox OS — CR850, CR730, CX800, CX750, CX700 and CX680 — including their first curved LED LCD TV. The full global launch of the TVs is expected “in the coming months.” From the Mozilla blog: "We’re happy to partner with Panasonic to bring the first Smart TVs powered by Firefox OS to the world,” said Andreas Gal, Mozilla CTO. “With Firefox and Firefox OS powered devices, users can enjoy a custom and connected Web experience and take their favorite content (apps, videos, photos, websites) across devices without being locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand.”

Comments

Double-speak

[stephanruby]

users can enjoy a custom and connected Web experience and take their favorite content (apps, videos, photos, websites) across devices without being locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand.

Except for the newly-introduced Firefox DRM from Adobe that is.

Don't you love the new double-speak.

Re:Double-speak

[itzly]

How is adding a plugin to handle an extra protocol the same as being locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand ?

Re:Double-speak

[pushing-robot]

Also, would he rather Firefox baked EME into their own code instead of using an Adobe plugin?

...and was he just as mad at Apple a few years back for *not* including a proprietary Adobe plugin with their mobile browser?

Re:Double-speak

[arglebargle_xiv]

It's also easy enough for Mozilla to claim you won't be locked into any ecosystem because they don't have one. For Android at least the ecosystem is what makes it so valuable (for Apple I'm guessing it's about 50% cool electronic jewellery and 50% ecosystem).

I didn't buy my Android phone to make a social statement, I bought it because of the Android ecosystem. The ecosystem is a feature, not a flaw.

Re:Double-speak

[NotInHere]

The goal is to kill off flash and silverlight plugins for videos, which is long overdue. Fat plugins are far worse than just DRM plugins. My only hope is now that that adobe DRM really costs money, so that it isn't adopted at much websites.

Re:Double-speak

[exomondo]

Except for the newly-introduced Firefox DRM from Adobe that is.

Don't you love the new double-speak.

Can you explain how this causes users to be "locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand"?

Re:Double-speak

[exomondo]

for Apple I'm guessing it's about 50% cool electronic jewellery and 50% ecosystem

I've never understood this, the iPhone is the most common smartphone in the world, if what you're looking to do is make "a social statement" with your choice of smartphone then the iPhone (and probably the Galaxy) would be last on the list.

Re:Double-speak

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah! Im trying to not make a statement by stating that Im not going with the mainstream vendor and instead choosing a bespoke Android phone made by a gluten-free, free-range vendor.

Re:Double-speak

[Anonymous Coward]

Which other operating systems can I install on this Smart TV? What's that, none?

Re:Double-speak

[exomondo]

Well GP (which I quoted) was saying that in the context of DRM from Adobe. But as for what other operating systems can you install? Well since Firefox OS uses a Linux kernel probably any Linux-based OS would work.

Re:Double-speak

[Anonymous Coward]

You sure? Have you actually installed another OS to a Firefox-based TV?

Re:Double-speak

[exomondo]

You sure? Have you actually installed another OS to a Firefox-based TV?

No I haven't, in theory it should be possible though. Still I don't see how users are "locked in", it's no different to any other device or appliance, if you don't like it then you can replace it, why can't you do that with these TVs?

Updates

[Teun]

Yes it is nice to have another Linux system available on TV's.
But more important is for how long, if at all, the manufacturer will support security and other updates.
Most important is if we can install a system of our own choice.

Re:Updates

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Why is it nice to see any OS on a TV? This is how we end up with ads inserted over ads, a scenario that should never have ever plaid out but somehow it has.

Re:Updates

[thegarbz]

Most important is if we can install a system of our own choice.

Who cares? No really outside of a few geeks who are likely already running out and buying dumb TVs due to the typical anti-corporate agenda type anger at company developed software, who really cares? The average consumer doesn't, and the average geek has shunned smartTVs for the ultra slow, ultra crap "smart" experience they typically bring.

The vast majority of people barely know how a SmartTV works and are happy enough when the program guide correctly displays.
The small minority who do use the Smarts are happy enough to get a weather update and youtube.
The only people who care have already completely given up on the worthless steaming pile of excrement that is the TV vendor's software and will run Kodi, Apple TV, Chromecasts or similar such small devices.

I would go one step further and say the single most important feature that Panasonic TVs and Firefox OS can bring: A TV which actually turns on in under 30 bloody seconds. Everything else security included (who would be dumb enough to attach a smart TV to the internet after every vendor has been caught out attempting to screw their customers).

Re:Updates

[Barsteward]

i'm hoping for Adblock to work on commercial TV

Re:Updates

[Darinbob]

Linux is in other mainstream devices, like Tivo and Android. It's not a geek thing. It's a sensible choice to make when designing high end products. Saves development costs, saves royalty costs, higher quality than most commercial embedded operating systems especially with networking and security. Why wouldn't a manufacturer want to use it?

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the TV already has an OS but a less capable one?

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't even connected my 2014 Panasonic Viera, I bought it for its awesome black level (last plasma generation)

It's connected to a media center that I built, with a nice 400mbps connections attached to it.

Yaahrr haahrrr

Re:Updates

[hairyfeet]

The whole idea of a "smart TV" is retarded because it ignores a fundamental truth, which is 1.- "Smart"devices that are successful are in markets with high turnover so the consumer is able to run the latest apps, for example smart phones and tablets, while 2.- TVs are devices that are typically kept by the consumer for 5-10 years which means the "Smart" part will quickly become as outdated and useless as a Palm Pilot.

Since FirefoxOS hasn't been out long enough lets use Android as an example, lets say you bought your smart TV 6 years ago, right around the time I bought my mother her new set (which is still working great and will probably last at least a couple more years if not more) that would put you on on Android 1.5, AKA Cupcake...now how many apps today can run on Cupcake? Very damned few. What about the hardware, could it have been updated? Since I had one of the early 1.6 (AKA Donut) I can tell you that while you MIGHT have been able to go to 2.0 it would have been painful to use, as the average device then was similar to these specs, a 530Mhz ARM11 with just 192Mb of RAM and 512Mb of flash...now remember that most smart TVs have lower specs than your average phone so how long do you think it would take before it was just painful to use?

At the end of the day I think that other than malware targets these things are gonna quickly become irrelevant, the OS will go out of date looong before the TV dies, making for a security nightmare as vulnerabilities in both the OS and the apps won't be able to be patched as the hardware will just be too weak to run anything newer, and for the consumer the apps will lose support and using the ones that come with it will be about as pleasant as trying to surf modern sites on the phone I listed above. So other than a checkbox on the side of the box? IMHO this is just fucking stupid any way you cut it.

Re:Updates

[Bongo]

Good point, for my own experience, it is nice to have a working iPlayer on the panny Viera—it makes it feel "modern"—but craptastic to keep seeing a "Myspace" ad on the home screen—makes it feel ancient. They seem to think you can just dump an "ecosystem" on these things and make it feel "smart", but it is a fine line between "useful" and feeling instead that you've just driven into a run down small town in the middle of nowhere. Talk about making your shiny gadget feel like it is obsolete on day one.

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

My Smart TV is a TV with an Android dongle.

Re:Updates

[AmiMoJo]

I have a Panasonic smart TV. The only place it has ads is in the app store, nowhere else. If it did I would have returned it, or not bought it in the first place. Not all smart devices are maximum evil, ads everywhere all the time etc.

Mine has an OS based on FreeBSD. I use the smart features to watch YouTube pretty much every day. Various electronics and woodworking video blogs mainly. I use the network media player from time to time too. It's a good system from 2012.

Re:Updates

[AmiMoJo]

I think we are going to need some mass consumer legal action to force the issue. In the UK the Sale of Goods Act requires devices to last a "reasonable length of time", which for cheap TVs is usually thought to be about 5 years and for expensive ones maybe 10 years. If the TV breaks down before then the retailer, not the manufacturer, has to sort it out. If it was half way through its expected life they could either fix it or give you a partial refund for lost functionality. A dead TV would get you a 50% refund, one where the smart features are broken would be based on how much you use the feature and decided by a court if needs be.

Some TVs from 2011 are losing YouTube support. I use the YouTube app on my TV every day. Replacement of this lost functionality would require something like an Amazon FireTV stick for £35. I would expect the retailer to offer me that, or at least part of that cost, if my TV broke down before it is 10 years old. It might not be a lot, but the retailer has to pay it and it might force manufacturers to try a bit harder.

Having said that, even if you were screwed, a FireTV stick or similar is so cheap now it's not a massive loss. If you get 3+ years of app use out of the TV that's good, and don't forget the smart features include other useful stuff like recording to USB HDD and streaming via DLNA etc.

Re:Updates

[rvw]

i'm hoping for Adblock to work on commercial TV

How will that work if ads are not coming from a different source, and are not marked somehow to be ads? Maybe this will change, but now it's a continuous stream, and yes there is an online tv guide, but that doesn't tell us anything about commercial breaks.

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

saves royalty costs

Microsoft and its army of lawyers may want a word with you. Apparently enough companies either believe Microsofts patent claims or believe that paying them of is cheaper than going to court.

Re:Updates

[605dave]

Well I bought a Panasonic TV two years ago and have to go through a "Home" screen before I get what I want. Oh, and there are ads on this home screen. But the worst part? Ads would occasionally appear over the content when using the volume controls. That's right, hit volume up and get an ad from United Airlines!

I did manage to turn off the ads but swore I'd never buy another Panasonic.

Re:Updates

[thegarbz]

I wasn't making any comment on the manufacturer's choice, but rather the assertion from the GP that it is important that we can install our own OS on the TV.

The "geek thing" is the idea of being able to choose the OS having any weight on the product choice what so ever. Tinkering is a rarity amongst the consuming general populous.

Re:Updates

[drinkypoo]

Transparent ad-blocking SQUID proxy. I've done this before to handle annoying devices. They don't even know it's happening. As a side-benefit you can add in some caching, if you like, although in rare cases that sort of thing causes problems (when people dick up the pragmas.)

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

Does linux support some decent tv tuner cards?
If I recall correctly, most tuner cards come with an IR remote.
Then how about connecting a cheap "dumb" screen to a small pc running linux with a tuner card in it.
Run what you want on that PC.
Route/firewall as you please.
Small form factor PC's aplenty these days.

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

No, we don't want a full OS with an app ecosystem on our TVs. We all want a dumb pane of glass with an insane number of inputs with maybe something akin to an Arduino type device (as far as processing power) to handle the remote control and switch between inputs. Smart TVs are, well there is only one way to say it - dumb. I have one. It sucks. Sure, say "anecdote" - but everyone else says they suck too so it becomes data pretty quickly. Mine gets 400 MB updates - and it pops up while you are watching a show "do you want to update now" (the answer is "of course not you dumb-fuck, I am watching a show"). Switching inputs is a 30 - 40 seconds in frustration as you click their little "mouse remote" to start the "menu" app, then click the "input" button on screen, then wait for the input list to load, then wait again while it re-renders as it discovers all of the DLNA devices on the network (which pushes HDMI 1 to a second screen) then switch to menu screen two, wait for it to stabilize then click HDMI 1. Absofuckinglutely ridiculous. Give me that display that is a dumb pane of glass with lots of inputs.

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm hoping for Adblock to work on commercial TV

You could get a Hopper from Dish - AutoHop skips commercials on local prime-time shows.

Re:Updates

[adolf]

I have a Samsung TV from around 2008.

It isn't smart.

On Black Friday last year I added a Chromecast to it for $23. The Chromecast came with a bunch of freebies (most notably $20 in Play Store credit, which is actually useful to me).

So, either for free (or for $23, depending on how one counts), my TV became "smart."

And the only place it has ads is...gosh, I don't know that I've ever seen an ad on it.

When the Chromecast becomes woefully outdated I'll plug a different widget into the TV.

Re:Updates

[geekmux]

...At the end of the day I think that other than malware targets these things are gonna quickly become irrelevant, the OS will go out of date looong before the TV dies, making for a security nightmare as vulnerabilities in both the OS and the apps won't be able to be patched as the hardware will just be too weak to run anything newer, and for the consumer the apps will lose support and using the ones that come with it will be about as pleasant as trying to surf modern sites on the phone I listed above. So other than a checkbox on the side of the box? IMHO this is just fucking stupid any way you cut it.

Says you, the consumer of said hardware.

Tell me again why a manufacturer or reseller of said hardware would give a shit about their hardware becoming slightly out of date and lacking features in 2-3 years?

At the beginning of the day, they give a shit about one thing; revenue.

At the end of the day, they give a shit about one thing; revenue.

In other words, the vendors of the world already have a solution for you. It's engineered right into the product.

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

"Oh but it's a slippery slope for those evil corporations to immorally display ads!" - Cynical Slashdotter

The answer is if open source is so great then build your own fucking TV and you can do whatever you want with it. But these people are just whiners, it is easier to be an armchair cynic and do nothing but complain than it is to actually do something.

Re:Updates

[hairyfeet]

You missed the bigger issue friend which is that this thing will end up an attack vector because it can't be patched and the apps and OS will be abandoned long before the set dies.

Sure if its one of those that uses Ethernet you could just pull the plug, but what about the new ones that come with WiFi? How many consumers are gonna be able to 1.- Access their router or modem's configuration, 2.- Read the access list AND know which device is what, especially when many just use some string of numbers instead of "phone", TV", etc and 3.- Know how to block just that device without borking anything else?

Adding a Firestick would merely give you back the functionality you had, not remove the threat which is why there needs to be a simple killswitch that will let the user turn their set from a smart to a dumb device. Otherwise its just a matter of time before a CodeRed or Shellshock comes along and turns these TVs into a malware writer's wet dream!

Just hope

[Whiteox]

Just hope that it can run netflix.

Re:Just hope

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Just hope that it can run netflix.

I don't understand why you have been down-modded, but:

The first smart TVs powered by Firefox OS have gone on sale today in Europe. [...] The new Panasonic TVs ship with a decent number of Firefox OS apps, including a Netflix app that supports 4K streaming, [...]

"Sorry, Netflix is not available in your country yet.": Netflix - Greece (that's in Europe... and not just in Europe, but in the European Union also... actually "Europe" IS A FUCKING GREEK NAME!)

Re:Just hope

[Anonymous Coward]

You were probably cut off for not paying your bills.

Re:Just hope

[Whiteox]

Thanks for your response. The problem with the majority of Android based smart TV is that the updates are custom written by a software company in Hong Kong. For some reason they have crippled enough of the OS to stop certain apps from working. Netflix is one of them and that's why I asked.
The reason for why I've been modded down is that there is a rogue mod out there and has been modding down me and others for no good reason.

Re:Just hope

[antiperimetaparalogo]

You were probably cut off for not paying your bills.

I get the joke (me Greek, not paying bills*) but this geo-blocking effects the whole of Europe (even E.U. -COMMON *MARKET*- members, as Greece is also) - i don't blame so much the content providers because the different copyright laws make the situation problematic for them, i just mentioned it since for many Europeans (not just Greeks, but even -in a better financiall state- Northern-Europeans) this is something that bothers them.

* by the way, Greece is a poor *state* with rich *citizens* (i.e., it's our state's finances that are -*was* actually, since now we have surplus- in trouble), plus: WE PAY OUR BILLS - the financial aid we now receive is added to our debt, and it is used to pay our loans... this "cycle" is done because we don't want to declare bankruptcy. I am not defending our bad ways of running our state's budget, and i don't blame the banks or our European partners, i just inform you about the situation that is a little different from what most may think.

Re:Just hope

[PolygamousRanchKid]

WE PAY OUR BILLS

That's correct. However, one of the two main problems in Greece is that folks there don't pay their taxes. That and corruption. Both the Troika and Syriza are in agreement on that.

In order for Greeks to buy Firefox TVs, or any other foreign made products, they will need hard Euros. The Greek government will probably have to resort to paying government salaries and pensions in "Scrips": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

Folks won't be able to a Firefox TV with Scrip . . . unless they pay a whole lot of them. So . . . all I can wish you is good luck!

Re:Just hope

[antiperimetaparalogo]

WE PAY OUR BILLS

That's correct. However, one of the two main problems in Greece is that folks there don't pay their taxes. That and corruption. Both the Troika and Syriza are in agreement on that.

That is correct (i do not need to rephrase my statement in capital letters because it was about our loan from foreigners, i.e., our external debt - we always paid our debts). Our "bad habits" are not paying our taxes, and a special kind of corruption: the "grey" economy - for example, that's why this "25% unemployement rate" you may read is not real.

In order for Greeks to buy Firefox TVs, or any other foreign made products, they will need hard Euros. The Greek government will probably have to resort to paying government salaries and pensions in "Scrips": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

Folks won't be able to a Firefox TV with Scrip . . . unless they pay a whole lot of them. So . . . all I can wish you is good luck!

This is debatable because (and thanks to our previous right-wing goverment), currently (even with our new -3 months old- left-wing goverment), we have a surplus: that means that, as long as we keep our surplus or some thoughts about returning in our national currency do not become reality (they have some good points, but i still don't agree), we don't need to leave the Eurozone. This "(I Owe You) Scripts" thing was just one more of the left- wing goverment's ideas that was not really serious, but just a way to avoid admiting to the people (especiallly those working in the public sector) that what they promised (ending the austerity) is not going to happen - in the next few days/weeks i expect/hope reality will force them out of power... 4 months is already too much time for those people to run Greece!

Not Interested

[Kunedog]

This is almost as bad as "smart" platforms in cars. Way too much software functionality will be put into devices that will last far longer than the manufacturer's interest in upgrading or supporting it (especially since they'll probably have no interest in the first place). Any TV that lists "smart" as a feature should be avoided like those that list "3D."

Re:Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

YES... exactly.

Want a smart TV, get a dumb TV and put a small footprint computer on it, e.g. in my case a Mac Mini.

It gets updates, the RAM can be upgraded, it has expandable local storage, has USB ports, Bluetooth, Ethernet, Wifi

It can play games, run a massive variety of Open Source and Proprietary software.

As new protocols are developed it is far more likely to be kept up to date.

And it may well cost less.

Re: Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

In the long run you will not be able to avoid it. You can only buy what's on sale, and your existing devices will not last forever - or will be banned outright. Do you remember when digital extremists vowed to stop Trusted Computing at all costs? Well, now Trusted Computing hardware is present in ALL computers, Linux has to support it, and there's nothing you can do about it. Same with DRM. Big Money *ALWAYS* wins.

Re:Not Interested

[Dutch Gun]

You can't really buy good TVs nowadays without those "smart" features, but that SoC hardware is pretty cheap nowadays, so I don't think it's affecting the price too much. Just buy a TV based on it's picture, price, and general physical qualities. Fortunately, you can still treat your TV like a simple monitor and leave all the media wrangling to a dedicated box, whether it's a console, Roku, Amazon Fire, or some roll-your-own PC-based solution.

Re: Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

Nonsense, you can buy all manner of systems that don't have TPM chips, probably very much due to those noisy "extremists" you mentioned. From things like the rasberry pi to my newly bought Desktop workstation, not a TPM chip in sight.

Only thing that has it is my old Thinkpad, but it has the option of being disabled in the BIOS.

Besides, the vitriol was directed not so much at the concept of the TPM chip, as much as the closed nature of it, and Microsoft "Palladium" initiative to basically make the system signed like the Xbox, so you could not get it to boot a non MS-approved OS. That was eventually abandoned as a requirement, and now the only main sticking point with TPM is whether someonebody has preloaded the chip with thier own private key without your knowledge.

Re: Not Interested

[Blaskowicz]

On off-the-shelf desktop motherboards, TPM modules plug in a special socket or more accurately, a set of pins. It's invariably empty if you buy the motherboard, as the motherboard vendor won't field that cost. And perhaps they don't want to do a job similar to that of a CA or credit card company etc. by managing the keys anyway. So I wonder if this is how/why we got where we are today, instead of the outcome having been decided by a battle between good and evil.

Re:Not Interested

[luvirini]

I have been looking for 4k TV, but have only found smart TVs for sale, so I am still waiting for reasonable priced stupid TV with 4k, as I really do not want the so called smart TV.

Currently the only way to get a non smart 4k TV seems to be a computer monitor, but the prices for the larger such are at least double the smart TV prices.

Re:Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly do you want a 4k TV for?

Re:Not Interested

[geekmux]

What exactly do you want a 4k TV for?

Don't have a clue why anyone would want one. Must be the shitty resolution or something...

Re:Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

I think most people would want one for looking at things on, but that's just a guess. Maybe he actually wants a 4K TV to use as a doorstop or to add to his modern "art" sculpture. Who knows???

Re: Not Interested

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no "battle" between "good" and "evil": only consumer choices.

Re:Not Interested

[tepples]

I guess the question was intended to read "for whom is a 4K TV worth the price premium over a 1080p TV?"

who wants a smart tv anyhow?

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I want my women smart and my TV dumb. Seems like it wouldn't be very entertaining the other way around...

Re:who wants a smart tv anyhow?

[theNetImp]

Amen, there's a reason my TV has never seen a network connection. This would be it.

Re:who wants a smart tv anyhow?

[Anonymous Coward]

if your woman was smart, she would have picked someone else.

Firefox Browser

[Anonymous Coward]

I just want firefox to be able to handle a large number of pdfs opening during the course of a session without consuming all my memory and eventually crashing.

Re:Firefox Browser

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Why do you read PDFs on your TV?

Re:Firefox Browser

[Darinbob]

I'd be happy if Adobe came out with a decent PDF reader again.

Re:Firefox Browser

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't care less about the TV except that it has to be diverting resources from improving the browser.

Re:Firefox Browser

[Anonymous Coward]

Just use Foxit.

Sumatra PDF could be a good reader one day, but for now it's a bit too spartan and slow.

Really what I want is for PDF to die and be replaced by epub.

Re:Firefox Browser

[TuringTest]

I couldn't care less about the TV except that it has to be diverting resources from improving the browser.

Does it? Improvements required to run the browser on a TV will necessarily involve making it more lightweight and portable, i.e. less dependent on the quirks of specific platforms.

Hidden/secret Downloads.

[MadMaverick9]

Does it also download files to your TV without asking you for consent?

Like the Firefox webbrowser does ("libgmpopenh264.so"):

On first start, Firefox downloads the "OpenH264 Video Codec provided by Cisco Systems, Inc." plugin (which is a binary blob) and enables it automatically. This happens without asking the user for consent.

There is another class/type of software that also downloads and installs programs/libraries to your computer without asking the user for consent. You know what that is?

Malware and computer viruses.

Re:Hidden/secret Downloads.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a bug report for Iceweasel, not Firefox.

Re:Hidden/secret Downloads.

[MadMaverick9]

So?? Firefox does the same. Start Firefox with a new profile and you will see the same bad behavior. You actually tried it?

Re:Hidden/secret Downloads.

[Anonymous Coward]

So? That's like me saying that Google spies on your email and then providing a link to an article that says Microsoft spies on your email.

I don't have a single .so file in my entire Firefox directory or subdirectories. So where is this alleged auto-downloaded file you were lying about?

Looks like a solution

[vikingpower]

in search of a problem. Seriously - which problem does this sort of stuff solve ??

Re:Looks like a solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Smart TVs are mostly used in hotels.

Hope it's better...

[Sooner Boomer]

...than my android powered LG 47G2 "smart" TV - it SUCKS! Google updated android in spite of everything I tried to prevent it, and broke a LOT of functions. And there's no way to back out of the "upgrades". I called LG and they blame google. Google says it is an issue with LG. I bet the same thing happens with Firefox OS and these new TVs.

Re:Hope it's better...

[kixome1]

I have more faith in firefox although their browser sucks on my android 4.1.3 phone, than I do in google. Hell I have more faith in MS than google. I hate app-le with a passion though.

Re:Hope it's better...

[Anonymous Coward]

Google has not updated Android on your TV.
In Android system it is only vendors that push OS updates. This is LG's fault.

Re:Hope it's better...

[drinkypoo]

I bet the same thing happens with Firefox OS and these new TVs.

I bet it doesn't. I bet what happens is that you want an upgrade, and don't get one.

Barring a standard port like a cablecard slot that lets me plug an embedded computer into my TV, I certainly don't want a smart TV, because updates.

You can build a SFF PC for under $100 that will play 1080p video just fine. Why would you ever buy a smart TV? It's just going to be an idiot in short order.

Re: Hope it's better...

[Anonymous Coward]

4k capable small form factor PCs cost more than $100 and 4k hdmi is even more rare. Eventually this will change, but probably not until Christmas 2016 if you want to wait. Meanwhile you can buy a smart tv and use the 4k smart stuff now and buy the SFF box next year and hook it to a 4k input.

Re: Hope it's better...

[drinkypoo]

4k capable small form factor PCs cost more than $100 and 4k hdmi is even more rare. Eventually this will change, but probably not until Christmas 2016 if you want to wait. Meanwhile you can buy a smart tv and use the 4k smart stuff now and buy the SFF box next year and hook it to a 4k input.

How many of those 4k smart tvs actually have 4k output from their internal smartass? And when they do, how often is it actually any better than upscaled 1080p? And how many people who are buying 4k TVs can't afford a SFF PC over $100?

Re:Hope it's better...

[geekmux]

...than my android powered LG 47G2 "smart" TV - it SUCKS! Google updated android in spite of everything I tried to prevent it, and broke a LOT of functions. And there's no way to back out of the "upgrades". I called LG and they blame google. Google says it is an issue with LG. I bet the same thing happens with Firefox OS and these new TVs.

And why would we not assume this?

Think about it for a minute, you're an owner of a product with a 7-10 year useful lifespan. You're being approached by vendors that have a notorious reputation for going out of date with their products within months, sometimes sooner. Are you going to be willing to partner with any of them without being able to point the finger back at them when shit goes wrong?

And we see this shit happen all the time. It's gotten to the point where they should just call it the legal finger pointing loophole.

Re:Hope it's better...

[Anonymous Coward]

Kind of funny how Microsoft is now less evil than Google. On the other hand, Apple has always been pure evil, suckering tech noobs into buying their crap with the false promise that it's somehow better and then locking those people into an Apple-only ecosystem.

Re:Hope it's better...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I've shied away from the whole "SmartTV" fad. Far better to buy a TV with an extra HDMI port and then plug in a Roku3, the Nexus Android TV, ChromeCast stick, or some other video device. When the little doodad runs out of steam in a few years, buy a new $35 part.

No sense spending $1000 on a "SmartTV" when a $300-$400 dumb TV will do the same thing with the addition of a $60 part.

Just what I needed...?

[lopaka1998]

Just what I needed... a TV that...

* updates automatically every few weeks whether I want it to or not.
* sends *anonymous* viewing data to "improve the experience", against my will.
* changes the interface on the tv, and meanings of the buttons on the remote every 3rd or so update.
* that I will need to install adblock plus on to get rid of ads or keep them under control.
* that I will spend needless hours trying to find how to activate the power button after an update reconfigures the power button to require the auxillary button to be pushed down at the same time.
* requires that I install plug-ins that also self update just to get the tv to operate the way I want it to.
* that requires a unplug/ replug every few days as it runs out of ram and slows down channel switching and video output to a crawl.
* that as an organization, doesn't listen to it's user base and does what it wants instead.


NO THANKS, MOZILLA!!!

Re:Just what I needed...?

[Blaskowicz]

I heard you can install linux on the TV instead : rolling release with systemd, KDE 5 and of course firefox. Another TV can work for the lifetime of a TV (remember when a TV lasted 20 years?). You can buy a TV that runs AIX or HP-UX, but it costs $200,000.
The z/OS TV is best, but requires expertise on your part and costs $1,000,000 + $20,000 a month fee (if you spend a bit more, you can activate the Channel Changing Processor, which is disabled in the low end configuration)

Re:Just what I needed...?

[Lumpy]

All LG Tv sets do that. They send back data to LG about your viewing habits.

And they wont let you install Adblock.

Re:Just what I needed...?

[MrL0G1C]

You'd get a mod point from me if I had any, I don't want a 'smart' TV for these reasons.

How are you not locked into one brand?

[Chrisq]

How are you not locked into one brand? Unless you have an option to load chromeos or something else into the tv... and by option I mean and easy boot option not a hack!

Is FFOS mature enough for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time i looked that wasn't the case...

Ads?

[kooky45]

Can I run AdBlock on it?

smart TV or NO TV?

[dltaylor]

If the choices finally come down to that, I will choose "NO TV".

I had a Westinghouse 37W1; pure monitor with every input from composite to DVI Worked beautifully for a long time until the backlight finally went out.

Settled for a "TV", but have never tried anything but HDMI-1, and don't use the audio on that (TV volume is always 0), 'cause the sound comes from the receiver.

The day it dies, if I cannot buy a TV (or, at least, large screen monitor) that works without an internet connection, then over-the-air/over-the cable/new media purchase is done.

No dumb TVs exist anymore

[Blaskowicz]

Not sure what "smart" exactly means, but on the tiniest TVs with bad sound and a bit of light leaking out of the LCD panel, you now have graphical menus, media player and USB port.
Seen one the other days, the owner was using it as speakers for his recent netbook (plugged to the sound RCA input meant for use along composite or VGA input) and the TV was switching off every 15 minutes, against his will.

Perhaps "smart" means internet access on top of that? Open the TV and disconnect wifi antennas. Ruin the USB ports if you will, but perhaps they aren't that bad. If you're paranoid use it with VGA, since HDMI can possibly carry ethernet etc.
And/or use that antiquated antenna connector, where digital HDTV is beamed in

Re:No dumb TVs exist anymore

[kixome1]

I with no better word to choose "religiously" (and i hate religion) have been staying with tube tv's and thank science for craigslist and the goodwill. I know for a fast that the tubes will outlast all of these "pc/tv's, smart (thats a laugh) tv's and anything else short of (because LED's AND OLED's have yet to be proven or dis-proven) Tv's in the long run.

Re:No dumb TVs exist anymore

[kixome1]

EDIT---> I meant I know for a fact not a fast. I have yet to understand slashdot's retarded system. I am sorry if a retarded person feels offended as the comment I made holds you in a much higher regard than slashdot and by mentioning slashdot and a retarded person together I may have verbally/emotionally injured a person who is much smarter than slashdot and it's wares, and late editors, without regard to retardation.

Never worked on my phone

[kixome1]

I don't use Firefox on my android 4.1.3 because i cannot touch it without scrolling out of control. Chrome is as slow as molasses but does load pages properly. Firefox also loads properly and faster. My default Samsung browser works 10 times faster (Samsung galaxy reverb.) I know i am behind the times but such should not matter. The only gripe with my phone's default browser is Slashdot and their new mobile bullshit format. In my default (internet as it is called) browser the top most discussed links are not able to be clicked and I must revert to slower and more bug laden browsers because of Slashdot's own ignorance of the user's choice.

I don't want a smart TV

[Chrisq]

.... I'm sorry Dave watching that much porn is not good for you. I cannot let you do that. Time to get off the sofa and run round the block.

Re:I don't want a smart TV

[605dave]

Ok, I ran around the block. Can I watch some more porn now?

You thought this was for our benefit?

[Viol8]

Wake up. Very few people care about smart TVs - they just want a TV Essentially something they can plug other boxes into and can also receive OTA broadcasts. I don't remember anyone clamouring for all this half baked UI "experience" shit and 3rd rate "apps" being squeezed into TVs but manufacturers seem to think we want it and because there are hardly any "dumb" TVs around anymore we can only buy smart TVs so the manufacturers claim its what we want. Circular reasoning , much?

Everytime you switch it on...

[aussie.virologist]

...it'll take 5 minutes while "checking you plugins for compatibility". ...Actually I really like Firefox, just not that part.

Re:Everytime you switch it on...

[Blaskowicz]

Firefox OS is plugin-less, which may be a good thing or a bad thing.

And it still sucks

[Lumpy]

Sorry, but ALL smart TV's suck.

Give us a place to dock a Roku or ATV and call it done. LG/Sony/Panasonic/Etc all utterly suck at the "smart" part. actually they all utterly suck at software and firmware in general. All of them have user interfaces that are train wrecks.

These Firefox Tv's will have a bastardization all over in them. Like how SHARP shovels advertisements at you. Buy a $2600 Tv set and you have Ad's on screen unless you unplug the network and never use the smart functions. WTF is that?

Re:And it still sucks

[houghi]

I have a 52" TV. It is as smart as the PC it is connected to. Basically it is a big monitor. I paid 500EUR for it lasy year. Sure, it isn't 4K, but that I do not (yet) need for a TV.

If I needed a seperate PC for it, I could easily add a RaspPi to it and use that. Or any other solution I desire. I tried the 'smart' part of it and it was pretty stoopid. There was nothing I could not do already with the downside of not being able to do more.

what might go wrong

[TheDarkMaster]

Let me see... A shitty "OS" on a low-powered, very cheap SoC and difficult to upgrade? What can go wrong?

Re:what might go wrong

[geekmux]

Let me see... A shitty "OS" on a low-powered, very cheap SoC and difficult to upgrade? What can go wrong?

Let me see... You would prefer a solid "OS" on a nicely embedded device, along with the flexibility to upgrade easily over the 5-7 year expected lifetime of a TV product?

No problem. Hope you don't mind taking out a multi-year loan for that $15,000 television set.

The words very cheap have never rung so hard in your wallet. And today, when something doesn't work due to obsolescence, the answer is to throw it away and buy a new one, thus defining the problem as there isn't a problem here, according to the vendors.

The hardware you want doesn't exist unless you make it. And it it's not planned either. To guarantee revenue.

Re:what might go wrong

[TheDarkMaster]

You did not understand what I meant. A cheap SoC is okay if you have a good OS to put on it, and a toy OS such as FirefoxOS is usable if you have hardware to throw on it. The problem happens when you have the combination of a bad OS and a cheap SoC, then you're asking for trouble. As for upgrades, see the trouble with Android and Samsung cellphones for example.

Re:what might go wrong

[narcc]

It could be worse: It could be running Android.

Honestly, is more competition in this space a problem? Is your objection to "Smart TV's" in general or the OS specifically?

It's not like you can't just use a Matchstick or Roku box if you want. At worst, smart TV features are harmless.

"Powered By"? When does an OS provide power?

[schwit1]

I understand what they want to convey but redefining words is not the way to go about doing it.

Re:"Powered By"? When does an OS provide power?

[Anonymous Coward]

Loosen up. Political power isn't measured in watts either.

Dear TV Manufacturers

[grasshoppa]

You're still not going to fool me. Years ago when my old CRT TV failed, I upgraded to a largish screen LCD. Works perfectly fine, still, even close to 7 years later.

I didn't need a 3d tv, or a 4k later. I really don't want a "smart" tv, despite the deliciously ironic name. I'm not going to upgrade every couple years, no matter what you try.

I half expect "smell-o-vision" next.

Astounding

[Anonymous Coward]

The Media Industry is so powerful and generous. You see? The Mozilla Foundation complied with the Industry's legitimate requests and has been promptly rewarded. Be reasonable. Learn to compromise, like all responsible adults do.

For the same price regular tv & HTPC

[karlandtanya]

Which *I* control.

Even if the "Smart" tv were open to modify I wouldn't buy it. I *like* the display and the cpu being in different boxes.

The TV needs to show me a decent watchable image.
The htpc needs to fetch the video and turn it into something the TV can show me. With some pretty htpc skin if I want it.

If I want some new feature or to use some new codec that needs a bigger cpu I can get a 'new' $100-200 junkpile computer.
That seems to be plenty to watch tv do low end web & email stuff from 10 feet away. You know--a smart TV.

Smart?

[Anonymous Coward]

Smart TV or Snoop TV?

Digital TV is also downloading malware to your TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone seems to be fixed upon the additional connection between the TV and the Internet via existing home computer systems; when, as I understand it, any digital transmission can contain anything the transmitting system can interface; within your smart TV; with the transmitted image you see on the screen. Here I have a very old HUMAX box that, when playing a recording, keeps jumping; as though there is something within the background transmission that seems to interfere with the picture on screen. As such I have come to the conclusion that the digital TV signal itself is also an issue.

Is anyone monitoring the transmitted digital signal? Do more modern digital TV boxes have unknown capabilities? What are the implications; right across the board; if they do have such additional undisclosed capabilities?

TV as computer monitor

[tepples]

Because my TV is also my computer monitor, and if my TV supports PDF, I can read comics and stuff while waiting for the computer to apply kernel updates and restart.

Re:TV as computer monitor

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Fair enough.

Updates

[tepples]

Barring a standard port like a cablecard slot that lets me plug an embedded computer into my TV

There is a standard port. It's called MHL.

You can build a SFF PC for under $100 that will play 1080p video just fine. Why would you ever buy a smart TV?

If you build a PC, you have the maintenance headache of keeping the PC's operating system and applications up to date. And in case you figure that out, which parts do you use for a $100 SFF PC so that I can recommend them to others?

toss the turtle

[toss the turtle]

A further 13 percent said that advanced AI would be a net negative for humans, and only a slight majority said it would be a net positive