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Oregon Testing Pay-Per-Mile Driving Fee To Replace Gas Tax

schwit1 tips news that Oregon will become the first U.S. state to test a program to replace their gas tax with a fee for each mile citizens drive on public roads. The 5,000 people voluntarily participating in the test will be charged 1.5 cents per mile. Revenue from gas tax has been on the decline as vehicles get more fuel efficient and as hybrids and electric cars become more popular. This measure is an attempt to raise the amount of money the state takes in to pay for infrastructure projects. Many owners of those hybrid and electric vehicles are upset, saying it specifically targets them and discourages environmentally-friendly transportation. Others point out that those who drive electric vehicles need the roads maintained just as much as people still driving gas-powered cars.

83 of 837 comments (clear)

  1. Tolls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not just tolls? That's a per-mileage solution that doesn't penalize hybrid and electric owners.

    1. Re:Tolls? by MikeDataLink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am all about a use based Tax rather than a lump fee with car purchase or registration. Those who consume more (drive more) should pay more.

      --
      Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
    2. Re:Tolls? by alen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      tolls need infrastructure which costs money to run

    3. Re:Tolls? by knightghost · · Score: 5, Informative

      The rich live close while the poor have to commute (NYC tried something similar). Not to mention this encourages less efficient cars. It's a very, very regressive tax.

    4. Re:Tolls? by bondsbw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is why I think all this anger from the left about tax deductions is silly. The left pushed through energy efficiency deductions, and then were appalled when the only people who qualified for those deductions were the people rich enough to worry about energy efficiency.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    5. Re:Tolls? by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, with electronic toll-paying that could work, but it would still shift the burden from low MPG to high MPG cars.

      The great thing about a gas tax is that it's a simple way to kill two birds with one stone: encouraging higher mileage and paying for infrastructure. The problem is that not everyone agrees that both birds are important. Two-birders think that high mileage vehicles should be discouraged because of externalized costs -- pollution mainly, but also space required in parking lots, greater risk to other road users etc. One-birders don't care about externalities but understand that the roads and bridges need to be repaired. Zero-birders are just idiots.

      I'm a two-birder myself, so raising the gas tax is a no-brainer. I'd also issue everyone a flat rebate per driver, because in fact I'm a three-birder: I'm concerned about the effect of a regressive tax on the working poor who have no options but to drive to their jobs.

      But I'm also a realist. There are a lot of one-birders out there and the roads need repair. It's also politically easier in one-birder territory to sell something as a fee rather than as a tax, even though from my perspective that's an irrelevant difference if you're raising the same revenue either way.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:Tolls? by hackertourist · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Depends on how you implement it. A PAYG tax scheme was discussed in the Netherlands a few years ago, tariffs would have depended on the environmental rating of your vehicle, i.e. an old diesel would be taxed more than a new Euro-5 compliant one.

      Over here the big advantages of PAYG were seen as:
      - congestion pricing becomes possible
      - it'd replace taxes on ownership and car purchase with usage-related pricing, incentivizing people to drive less.

      The big disadvantage was the privacy concerns.

    7. Re:Tolls? by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Funny

      The left encourages us to get Hybrid Cars and increased fuel economy, and then when the tax base falls, they get upset at hybrids and fuel efficient cars and want to raise taxes!

      And who could possibly have predicted that?

    8. Re:Tolls? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The rich live close while the poor have to commute (NYC tried something similar).

      The rich also drive bigger and heavier cars, which cause more damage to the roads. But most road damage is caused by heavy trucks. A fully loaded 18-wheeler causes 10000 times as much damage as a typical car, and even more if it is overloaded. If big trucks actually had to pay their way, much of their cargo would move to trains.

    9. Re:Tolls? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      road damage from a prius vs road damage from a semi. Hmm. sounds equitable.

      I'm an Oregonian.. and holy god, this is one of those proposals which needs to be killed with fire before it metastasizes.

    10. Re:Tolls? by Enry · · Score: 2

      My town has an excise tax for local roads based on the value of the car rather than how many miles driven or kind of car it is. My car is about $50 per year, or equivalent to about 3000 miles at 1.5 cents per mile. I drive a lot more than that.

    11. Re:Tolls? by zwede · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why shouldn't hybrid and electric owners pay for the roads they use?

      We're fine with that as soon as gas cars start paying for health care costs related to pollution as well as middle eastern wars, fracking induced earthquakes and all their other externalities.

    12. Re:Tolls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A post with pipe-delimited data. Maybe there's hope for /.

    13. Re:Tolls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I like how you don't acknowledge the fact that the poor tend to use public transportation, not privately owned cars. Or that you ignore that the middle class are the ones actually most likely to pay the most here considering they are the ones that live in suburbs outside of city centers.

    14. Re:Tolls? by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      Maybe that is backward in some locations. In Atlanta the poor live close and the rich commute AGES to get to work. My question on a per mileage charge is how is the tracking done. Reading the odometer is easy and doesn't have privacy concerns, but doesn't reflect if it was driven on private roads or out of state.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    15. Re:Tolls? by danbert8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe 20 years ago... New toll systems have few manned toll booths and don't require traffic to slow or stop. And it most certainly does discriminate based on size class of the vehicle.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    16. Re:Tolls? by hackertourist · · Score: 2

      .nl doesn't have toll roads, and 'store everything' camera schemes were rare back then. They've become common since, with nary a peep from the population.

    17. Re:Tolls? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe we should just nix the idea that road infrastructure needs to be paid for with gas or vehicle taxes, and start paying for it from the general fund. I don't have kids, but I still pay a crapload of taxes to pay for funding public schools. I'd argue that someone who doesn't own a car still indirectly benefits from the road infrastructure just like I benefit indirectly from our public education system.

      Besides which, are we serious or not about encouraging people to buy and use electric vehicles? Why are we still offering subsidies if we're just going to stick it to the customer another way?

      Additionally, I'd love to hear how officials expect to defeat those who attempt to hack or disconnect whatever methods are used to track mileage use. People are already plenty adept at rolling back odometers, and I'm sure creative folks will also find a way to defeat any system for mileage tracking.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    18. Re:Tolls? by knightghost · · Score: 2

      Because it's not a fact. Maybe in the big northeast cities, but not most of the country.

    19. Re:Tolls? by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe he doesn't acknowledge it because it's not true? Public transportation is used by people inside cities, which are sometimes expensive, sometimes not, depending on whether the local government has managed to beat back the State DoT or not and allow redevelopment.

      Public transportation outside of cities is generally unusable due to Suburbanist planning policies.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    20. Re:Tolls? by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      If big trucks actually had to pay their way, much of their cargo would move to trains.

      Not on short and medium haul routes. My local grocery store does not have a rail spur serving it....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    21. Re:Tolls? by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The rich also drive bigger and heavier cars, which cause more damage to the roads.

      Really, the rich people's sports cars and luxury sedans are bigger and heavier than the poor people's Escalades, Expeditions and Hummers?

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    22. Re:Tolls? by OhPlz · · Score: 2

      Those batteries aren't disposed. They're reprocessed into new batteries.

    23. Re:Tolls? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Road damage from vehicles is entirely dictated by tire pressure ... Tractor trailers are another matter with tire pressures often at 90psi.

      Racing bicycles often use a tire pressure over 100psi. Since road damage is entirely dictated by tire pressure, they are clearly the worst ... or maybe you don't know what you're talking about.

    24. Re:Tolls? by AdamThor · · Score: 4, Informative

      From TFA:

      "Drivers will be able to install an odometer device without GPS tracking."

      And for that reason I approve of this program.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    25. Re:Tolls? by thaylin · · Score: 2

      Because it shifts the burden on maintaining our roads. I could use my gas vehicle 10 miles a year and have to pay much much more than someone who drives an electric 100000000000000000000 miles a year.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    26. Re:Tolls? by thaylin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Driving hybrid cars and increased fuel economy vehicles is more about saving the environment than not paying to support the roads you have to drive on. Both are needed.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    27. Re:Tolls? by Richy_T · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hah, wow. Have you ever actually been poor? This is exactly the kind of mentality the GP was talking about.

      Having wealth gives you options, including the options to take steps that will give you even more wealth. Being poor means you rent whatever you can and take the windows that come with it and hope you can keep your car on the road for the next months and cross your fingers that you don't run over a nail because even a new tire would mean you don't get electricity next month (and then somehow have to find the money for the reconnect fee).

      The left are delusional about what actually benefits the poor (though many of the right are too).

    28. Re:Tolls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wrong.... its the pressure times the contact area that is load transferred to the pavement. It doesn't matter what the pressure is... the weight of the vehicle (or portion of the weight transferred to the tire) determines the contact area of the tire and that weight is applied to the pavement. In terms of actual damage to pavements passenger cars are basically negligible compared to trucks.

      See this
      http://www.pavementinteractive.org/article/equivalent-single-axle-load/

    29. Re:Tolls? by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's all this about "the left" and "the right"? You seem to have two images in your head of two groups that supposedly believe certain things. Unfortunately, they seem to have little in common with the actual beliefs of anyone I know.

      Rather than assigning labels and talking about what imaginary groups like "the left" supposedly believe, how about sticking to the specific beliefs that specific people have actually expressed, and let everyone say for themselves what they do or don't believe.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  2. So basically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The tax burden shifts from low MPG vehicles to high MPG vehicles. Sounds like an environmentally friendly idea to me...

    1. Re:So basically by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the tax burden shifts from low MPG vehicles to vehicles in general. Big difference.

      A better approach would be to have the fee slide based on the weight of the vehicle, since damage to roadways occurs by the square of the vehicle's weight, which would actually continue to reward more frugal drivers and shift the burden to those who actually incur the most cost.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    2. Re:So basically by CauseBy · · Score: 2

      Do you mean, the tax burden used to skew toward low-MPG vehicles, and is now MPG-agnostic?

    3. Re:So basically by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they actually cared about which vehicles damaged roads the most, they'd just leave the gas tax in place, dump this per-mile idea, and jack up the tax on diesel-powered semis. Passenger cars really don't affect roads much at all; it's the big trucks that do all the damage.

    4. Re:So basically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If 20% is paid by high MPG cars now and 80% low MPG, then moving to 50%/50% is a shift to high MPG no matter how you want to spin it. You might argue that it is more fair to do it this way, but it is still a shift to high MPG cars. So folks who did the math when they bought a more fuel efficient car get less out of the deal than they calculated.

    5. Re:So basically by Totenglocke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because drastically increasing the taxes everyone pays just to get to work and back or go to the store won't decrease consumer spending?

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    6. Re:So basically by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3

      "I'm sorry, but you can't drive on this road. You have a Nissan and Walmart Roadways has an exclusive agreement with Toyota. You need to be driving a Toyota to travel on this road. Don't worry, though, you can pay $5 per mile to go on the Walmart Service Road. Sure, it hasn't been repaved in years and it is only one lane with five lanes' worth of traffic, but there aren't any car brand restrictions!"

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  3. Vehicle Weight by Luthair · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lower mpg vehicles often tend to be heavier (e.g. trucks & SUVs) which one assumes causes more wear than a lighter vehicle.

    1. Re:Vehicle Weight by haruchai · · Score: 5, Informative

      If they're not taxing trucks by weight, they're doing it wrong. The wear by heavy trucks is exponentially greater than a number of smaller vehicles of total similar weight.
      For example, the wear & damage caused by a single tractor-trailer of 80,000 lbs is several thousand times greater than that of 20 2-ton passenger cars.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    2. Re:Vehicle Weight by Luthair · · Score: 2

      I was actually referring to non-commercial vehicles, e.g. pickup trucks :)

    3. Re:Vehicle Weight by Lost2Home · · Score: 5, Informative

      Semis create 80x the road wear compared to cars, not thousands.

      Actually he was correct. The actual number based on US Dept of Transportation reports is 9600x for a semi compared to a passenger car - source.

    4. Re:Vehicle Weight by adolf · · Score: 2

      The claim was that a singular truck is thousands of times worse than 20 2-ton cars.

      You add that the US DOT estimates that it is 9600x worse than a singular car.

      But simple arithmetic says that 9600 / 20 = 480. And my grasp of verbally estimating figures puts 480 squarely into the "hundreds" category, not the "thousands".

      Therefore, in conclusion, he was wrong. 1 truck is not thousands of times worse than 20 cars, but it may well be hundreds of times worse than 20 cars.

      (Why 20 cars? Why thousands? Who knows; I didn't come up with this shit. I'm just here to be logical and do some basic math since nobody else seems to be able.)

  4. Government Intrusion by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 5, Insightful

    with the aim of knowing your where abouts at all times. If you don't want a gas tax, charge a weight based fee at registration. And if you really, really must have a milage based tax, do it at the annual inspection based on total miles over the prior year. Accept that there is no perfect solution but that putting monitors inside people's cars is about as offensively bad as it gets.

    1. Re:Government Intrusion by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't worry. They already addressed this. From the article:

      For those who use the GPS, the state and private vendors will destroy records of location and daily metered use after 30 days. The program also limits how the data can be aggregated and shared. Law enforcement, for example, won't be able to access the information unless a judge says it's needed.

      See. Nothing to worry. No chance the government would abuse this. Besides, I'm sure it's just the metadata of your trips, not the actual details of the trip.

    2. Re:Government Intrusion by uncqual · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If weight fees make sense at all (for example, because of the fact that heavy vehicles cause more wear and tear on the roads and perhaps require building roads/bridges more robustly), they would make the same sense regardless of if the weight comes from batteries or lots of seats.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    3. Re:Government Intrusion by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Since it's primarily weight per axle that determines the wear caused on the roads, and the point of the tax is to maintain roads, it seems logical that heavier vehicles, whether they be SUV's or big sedans like the Tesla, should be charged more. It's not like a Leaf is particularly heavy (it's basically the same weight as the similarly sized Chevy Cruze).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    4. Re:Government Intrusion by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Weight-based fees also unfairly nail electric vehicle drivers, because the batteries tend to weigh more than an equivalent internal-combustion drivetrain."

      The more a vehicle weighs, the more road wear it causes. How does the road not wear as much because the weight is from batteries? Do you think a semi-trailer loaded with car parts causes more wear than one of the same weight loaded with batteries?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    5. Re:Government Intrusion by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Informative

      READ my god damned ODOMETER every year when I have to do my registration and whenever I sell the fucking car therein.

      That doesn't work. Oregon can't tax the miles you drive outside Oregon--the US Constitution explicitly forbids state taxation of anything outside the state. They *have* to know not only how far you've driven but where you drove it to impose this tax.

      I think they need to junk this tax entirely. It's not workable without unacceptable intrusion into your personal information.

    6. Re:Government Intrusion by CauseBy · · Score: 2

      Yeah this is so obvious. If all they want to do is tax your mileage, then the beacon can simply transmit your odometer reading, and GPS is unnecessary.

    7. Re:Government Intrusion by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      How about just a tire tax? Jack the price of tires up, but that would be fair to everyone. It would make a black market for tires sadly.

      Because encouraging people to drive on bald tires until they explode would just be such a good idea...

    8. Re:Government Intrusion by pete6677 · · Score: 2

      Every US state with a sales tax taxes stuff you buy out of state (in theory anyway). They just call it a Use Tax, but it really amounts to nothing more than imposing a tax on commerce that took place in another state.

    9. Re:Government Intrusion by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 2

      How can they guarantee that now? What about all of the people who commute across state borders, or who leave near a state where the gas is cheaper than in their own state?

  5. Numbers by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Currently, Oregon has a $0.30 per gallon fuel tax. Plus conversion factors for unusual fuels.

    This $0.015/mile tax is equivalent, therefore, to the rate you'd be paying if your car got 20 mpg.

    So the volunteers will come out ahead if they have gas-guzzlers, and way behind if they have even reasonably fuel efficient vehicles.

    And in exchange for higher taxes on driving, they get the privilege of providing Oregon information on how much they travel and WHERE THEY TRAVEL.

    What could possibly go wrong with this idea?

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  6. It's the semi's that destroy the roads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    My dad is a retired materials science engineer; a road with infinite life for a car, will have a lifetime of something like 10 years for a fully loaded semi... They are the problem, not the cars. Tax the semis much more for the damage done to the road, vs mile driven.

    1. Re:It's the semi's that destroy the roads by CauseBy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When you drive your car, I don't benefit.

      When a trucker drives a semi, I benefit, because I buy products in stores.

      So I'm more inclined to tax you.

  7. Why GPS? by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Private vendors will provide drivers with small digital devices to track miles"

    There are already pretty strict laws for tampering with odometers. Why aren't they a sufficient measure?

    1. Re:Why GPS? by dbrueck · · Score: 2

      The odometer can't tell when you've left Oregon.

    2. Re:Why GPS? by rlp · · Score: 5, Funny

      > The odometer can't tell when you've left Oregon.

      This law seems to be a good reason to leave Oregon.

      --
      [Insert pithy quote here]
    3. Re:Why GPS? by SecurityGuy · · Score: 2

      I would MUCH rather pay a state tax on miles driven elsewhere than be tracked so the state knows when I'm driving elsewhere.

    4. Re:Why GPS? by CauseBy · · Score: 2

      Neither can the gas tax and nobody worries about that.

      My solution would be to increase the gas tax a little, tax electricity over a baseline by a little bit, nudge up vehicle registration taxes, and if that isn't enough then maybe have a little tax specific for non-gas vehicles. I don't think we need to track every car on every trip everywhere in the state.

    5. Re:Why GPS? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Gas Taxes are more fair than mileage taxes. Gas taxes more or less tax all drivers on the roads in a state, including many from outside the state that are driving through or visiting

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  8. Fourth power rule of thumb by tepples · · Score: 5, Informative

    Road wear is often estimated as the fourth power of axle weight. So I imagine the final regulation will include road wear as a factor. Incidentally, this rule of thumb is sometimes cited as why cyclists aren't taxed. A 200 pound* bicycle causes one ten-thousandth of the wear that a 2000 pound car causes, which means cyclists' contribution to road wear would likely be too small to collect.

    * Occupied weight

    1. Re:Fourth power rule of thumb by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

      ... cyclists' contribution to road wear would likely be too small to collect.

      Oh yeah? What if the cyclist was wearing a backpack, too? What then? Tax them all!

      --
      That is all.
    2. Re:Fourth power rule of thumb by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 2

      Road wear is often estimated as the fourth power of axle weight. So I imagine the final regulation will include road wear as a factor.

      That is an admirably rational argument that I fear won't stand up to politicians' desire to pander to car manufacturers and dealers, oil companies, and that part of the electorate who feel entitled to drive a big vehicle that they have no use case for and can't really afford to run. I hope I am wrong.

    3. Re:Fourth power rule of thumb by locofungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Assuming a reasonable pressure (no trains with flanged wheels trying to drive down the highway) then the damage comes from axle load and not pressure for standard road building materials.

      It's the (hopefully elastic) deforming of the roadbed that leads to the damage - typically due to surface cracking that then lets weather in - and so below a certain axle weight (which will depend on the design load of the road in question) the damage is essentially zero.

      No metalled road designed for cars (or even just foot traffic) will be damaged by bicycles at anything like the rate that weather (and vegetation) will damage it anyway. No road designed for significant truck traffic will be damaged by cars[1]

      It would, of course, be possible to design a road that a 90psi bicycle tyre would damage more quickly than a 40psi car tyre but, in practice, it would be more expensive than one that a bicycle wouldn't damage if a car wouldn't.

      [1] Cars under hard acceleration can damage the top surface of a metalled road independent of any flexing of the road bed - I've seen this on a steep uphill after a slow bend - every driver hits the throttle at the same point at the bottom of the hill. Once there is unevenness to the surface, whether from the weather or trucks, dynamic loading from cars can rapidly accelerate the ongoing damage.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    4. Re:Fourth power rule of thumb by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 3, Funny

      A 200 pound bicycle causes one ten-thousandth of the wear that a 2000 pound car causes, which means cyclists' contribution to road wear would likely be too small to collect.

      Except for the impact divot they leave when someone doors them.

    5. Re:Fourth power rule of thumb by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      ...and what if the cyclist was really fat and out of shape, thus breathing more heavily and expelling more CO2? What then?! Huh?!?

  9. "[D]ata on how much they have driven and where" by mariox19 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And this idea of where someone has driven being collected by government concerns no one? That's the impression you would get from the bang-up job done by the journalist authoring the article.

    --

    quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

  10. Re:Dumb question... by AndyMoney · · Score: 2

    How do any volunteers who drive gas or hybrids get out of the paying gas tax, since they're paying the mileage tax? It's added right into the pump, yeah?

    Maybe through a form on their state tax return that refunds the pump taxes?

  11. Re:Dumb question... by wardrich86 · · Score: 2

    I'd assume they save the receipts and receive a refund, like you do with income taxes.

  12. Solution in Search of Problem by nealric · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The gas tax works. It's hard to evade and benefits from existing taxing infrastructure. The only problem is that it was never indexed for inflation. Tell me why we need a completely new system? Are people really less resistant to this than paying a few more cents a gallon at the pump?

    Electric vehicles and hybrids can't be the reason. Electric vehicles still represent a tiny portion of vehicles on the road. Hybrids don't really get much better fuel economy than the tiny econoboxes of the 90s. People still drive big trucks everywhere. Since less fuel efficient vehicles also tend to be heavier, they cause a disproportionate amount of road damage (and effectively get taxed more per mile).

  13. Weight/Milage combination by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

    It needs to be a forumula that is based on miles driven AND weight of the car... unless Oregon actually believes that a Civic and a Big Rig cause the same amount of long term damage to a road.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  14. Registration fees based on vehicle weight by davydagger · · Score: 2

    They should have registration based on vehicle wieght, and other factors which determine how much wear your vehicle does to the road.

  15. Ha ha ha ha..... by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...you didn't REALLY think that by driving your electric or hybrid car that you were going to permanently somehow avoid the government's rapacious tax-addiction, did you?

    It's just like the cigarette taxes or any of the 'sin' taxes: they've worked so hard to get people to stop smoking, they are suddenly realizing they're losing revenue.

    There's no question that we need to pay taxes for the roads we drive on.
    Formerly, the connection between general road use and gasoline was irrefutable; now they need another mechanism.

    --
    -Styopa
  16. The real trick... by blueshift_1 · · Score: 2

    ... would be to have your car registered out of state so you don't pay the mileage tax, but buy gas in Oregon (where it's cheaper due to no tax). At least until the neighboring states follow this same policy.

  17. Re:And maybe get rid of studded tires too. by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hint: those ruts aren't caused by studded tires, they're primarily caused by poor road design and big freaking trucks.

    Besides which, modern studded tires are increasingly designed to reduce noise and road damage. New Nokians, for example, have studs that retract into the tire when driven on dry asphalt, and they're testing a future design with studs that can be electrically retracted and extended.

  18. Idiots by damicatz · · Score: 2

    There is plenty of money from gas taxes to maintain the roads. The problem is, the highway "trust" (LOL) fund is used as a personal savings account by politicians for their pet projects. Things like millions of dollars spent on bike trails and other assorted earmarks that have nothing to do with road maintenance.

  19. Re:Signals, zoning, and subsidizing transit by SydShamino · · Score: 2

    That depends on 1. signal sets that can detect bicycles rather than leaving them at a dead red,

    They need to rewrite the law to allow bikers to treat stop signs and yields, and to treat stop lights as stop signs.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

    Of course that doesn't work at a busy intersection where the bike cannot safely cross without a green light, but it's a good start to making biking more efficient for bikers.

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  20. Does it Stop by Greyfox · · Score: 2

    Does it stop when you drive out of Oregon?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  21. Tax Tires by penandpaper · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My state legislators actually asked this question and got me thinking about a one time tax on tires. It has the benefits of the gas tax (anonymous, based on usage) but the added benefit that you can approximate the weight that a tire will carry on the road.

    During a purchase you could either pay all taxes up front and be done with it or set up a monthly billing cycle so that poor can still make ends meet without dreading lost tread. Once taxes have been paid you are done and do not have to pay that tax until your next tire purchase. If a tire is expected to last 100k miles it, it is estimated to carry X weight for Y length of time (miles driven) meaning Z dollars in maintenance. Tax = Z - any other road infrastructure income/subsidies (gas tax still in effect could subsidized the tire tax making it cheaper).

    This could also help spur better usage of tires (keeping them properly inflated [increasing MPG], rotating tires, etc). I am not sure how to handle used tires. Also, this doesn't help if you have to travel on dirt roads or poor roads that wear on tires more than pristine new black top.

    Just a random thought, I haven't gave it much thought after initially discussing it with legislators.

    1. Re:Tax Tires by healyp · · Score: 2
      I like it but, I could see this getting very messy when you have a blowout due to the already abysmal conditions existing on the roadways. Do I have to pay another round of taxes on the replacement tire even though it didn't make it to EOL? Is the State partly responsible because I paid tax on the tires with the expectation that they would spend the money on improving the roadways?

      If no, do I have to get a signed affidavit from my tire place that this is a certified blowout replacement? How long until unscrupulous tire shops start helping customers evade the taxes then? How much is enforcement going to cost at that point?

      If the avoidance and enforcement end up costing more than the road maintenance then you end up back in the same situation again

    2. Re:Tax Tires by vettemph · · Score: 2

      I'll be starting black market re-tread service before the rush.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    3. Re:Tax Tires by mdmkolbe · · Score: 2

      I like this idea, but on a 100k mile tire at $0.015/mile (the rate proposed in Oregon) that would be $1500 for a new set of tires (or $375 per tire if you have four tires and each tire gets charged at a fourth the rate). Given that a cheap new tire costs around $50, that would be a significant (perceived) price hike for new tires.

      I think people would react badly to that even if technically they are saving just as much by not paying gas tax. Strange black markets, tax dodging, and market distortions would likely happen as a result.

      I would be very interested to hear if there is a way to avoid those effects.