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Pre-Orders Start For Neo900 Open Source Phone
New submitter JoSch1337 writes: After a year and a half of development, the Neo900 project now opened its web shop for the down payments of binding pre-orders for either a full Neo900 phone or the bare circuit board to upgrade an existing Nokia N900. The up-front down payment is necessary to now secure expensive "risk parts" like the modem, 1GB RAM and N900 cases. Thus, without pre-ordering now, there might not be enough parts left after the first batch.
The Neo900 is the spritual successor of the Nokia N900. The new circuit board can be placed into an existing N900 for better specs (faster CPU, more RAM, LTE modem) than the original device while still maintaining fremantle (maemo 5) backwards compatibility. Alternatively, a fully assembled phone can be purchased as well. The Neo900 will be fully operational without any binary blob running on the main CPU. While the modem still requires a non-free firmware, it is completely decoupled from the rest of the device (think of a LTE usb stick you put in your laptop) and can reliably be monitored or switched off by the operating system.
You can follow the development of the project in the maemo forum, read about the specs of the device or consult the FAQ
The Neo900 is the spritual successor of the Nokia N900. The new circuit board can be placed into an existing N900 for better specs (faster CPU, more RAM, LTE modem) than the original device while still maintaining fremantle (maemo 5) backwards compatibility. Alternatively, a fully assembled phone can be purchased as well. The Neo900 will be fully operational without any binary blob running on the main CPU. While the modem still requires a non-free firmware, it is completely decoupled from the rest of the device (think of a LTE usb stick you put in your laptop) and can reliably be monitored or switched off by the operating system.
You can follow the development of the project in the maemo forum, read about the specs of the device or consult the FAQ
The love child of Openmoko and N900. I think if they deliver on the promise, this will change the way people view their mobile devices. Motherboard replacements and case replacements will gain traction just like in the assemble your own PC era.
The love child of Openmoko and N900. I think if they deliver on the promise, this will change the way people view their mobile devices. Motherboard replacements and case replacements will gain traction just like in the assemble your own PC era.
Poor web shop
It never even had a chance... :) Anyone know the price, and timeline? No way to get it from the source.
That is the only feasible explanation for it being down right now. We know this site doesn't direct enough traffic to take down any website that is more robust than that.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Site's not coming up now...
Definitely gotta order me one of these, once I save up all that money.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
"According to current calculations, the cost of the motherboard should be somewhere around 990 EUR. The complete device will cost about 150 EUR more, depending on prices and availability of N900 spare parts."
Holy cow, freedom (at least partial freedom) comes at a seriously hefty price. That's five times the cost of a half-decent Samsung Galaxy (S4 or S4 Mini, not network-locked), where I'm from.
And for 1GHz, 1Gb RAM, 0.5Gb storage. That's not even close to the spec of the above Samsung.
Pay five times the cost, get less back, and the possibility of component shortage making repair/replacement impossible.
How do this stack up against the $9 CHIP project, etc. with its processor? I can build a GSM "phone" with Wifi, SD, touchscreen etc. from Arduino shields for way, way, way less than this costs on top of that.
I mean, for God's sake, they've bothered to put IrDA and FM radio on it!
Niche doesn't even begin to cover it. When you're more expensive than Apple, and can't do anywhere near as much, you know that you're onto a loser.
Seems the site was slashdotted, the price is around $1000 EU though from what I've read on http://talk.maemo.org/
https://web.archive.org/web/20...
Might be slightly out of date..
I work for an ARMv8 vendor, it's not really all that great to have 64-bit. Mostly it's a big waste of money to put one in a phone.
The truly open smartphone
that cares about your privacy
Pretty sure inanimate objects don't have "cares", but is it odd I like the fact it has real buttons?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon.
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I didn't say anything about 64-bit. ARMv8 brings about a much cleaner architecture, power improvements, etc.
You work for an "ARMv8 vendor" and yet think the only benefit of ARMv8 is 64-bit? Do you know nothing at all about all the other architectural improvements and the fact that the newer ARMv8 cores run faster with less power draw? Even in 32-bit mode they still run faster and cooler than Cortex-A8s.
The device is dependent on a non-free graphics chip and wifi. I'm a bit sceptical of the value of a device which claims enhanced privacy when they completely discard major issues. If you don't even know what your running on the main CPU how can you claim to have enhanced security by being able to turn off the GSM modem? I like the idea of being able to turn the GSM modem off. That is definitely a good thing. Before I'd even consider this phone (there are more free software friendly phones out there already actually) I'd want them to have at least produced a distribution or version of a distribution without the non-free pieces. That way I'd at least know that its unlikely anything is spying on me (other than tracking when the phone is on). I'm also assuming here the GSM modem doesn't have access to the CPU, ram, or flash on the device. If it does then all bets are off as I can't trust the GSM modem to not grab my encryption key, contacts, etc and send them off to the NSA.
I wonder if Joerg and crew will also include a free idle death threat, targeted at whatever object of hate you desire. Maybe they'll resort to their default of "hiring a hitman to kill Poettering" unless otherwise specified.
I wasn't aware that Nokia still makes cell phones. I haven't seen a Nokia flip phone since like 2005. It seems that everybody has a Samsung Galaxy an Apple Iphone or LG smartphone these days. Just making an observation. I need to take a look at the latest Nokia phones at Best Buy. :D
Just like /.
You're point?
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
A GPS location will fit in a 64 bit word. Phones do that a lot. Phones these days, I still use a flipper from the last decade.
Haven't we learned anything from, oh I don't know, Neo Free Runner? Ubuntu Phone anyone? Apparently, we did not. These are spectacular failures, and RTFA just brought us another one.
First, the price is ridiculous: they say 480 Euro for complete device. I look at my Google Nexus 5 and I'm telling you: even if this piece of crap will be able to run Android apps (which I doubt), it does not justify the pricetag. Especially considering its laughable specs - I mean, c'mon, atrocious 3.5 screen and 0.5Gb storage?!
The problem is worse: there is Linux on it. What are you talking about? Which software I could use on a phone? What, GIMP?! Kate?! Full-blown Firefox? I don't care what OS is inside, frankly - I want a working phone, with fscking software in it. And opensource does not provide it - not one bit. It will be glitchy and buggy mess, as always, and I don't want it. I use Debian on desktop, and it is OK (finally, in 2015) - but on mobile? You've got to be kidding me...
Bottom line: I'm willing to bet on 50 bucks that this piece of crap will not gain even 0.5 marketshare in 5 years from now - if any.
I'm waiting on that one.
My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
What an absolute waste of resources and money.
Do you consider everything that you don't want to be a waste of resources and money? Does the existence of this project deprive you of something that *you* need? Do you assume that the developers would work on your pet project if they weren't working on this? Do you think that the money that people are investing in this would somehow benefit you if it weren't spent on this project?
Take it easy on the guy. He didn't say 64 bit was the only benefit. Actually, he said the xact opposite. He probably assumed you saw the downside of paying $1,000 for a 5 year old rebranded n900. Of course, freedom isn't free. Some will pony up the cash for the privilege of carrying the flag. Let's just thank these people for their service and be glad the blackberry crowd isn't too riled up. Personally, I can't wait till Nokia gets back into the game. Their shareholders will fund ANYTHING.
The best suggestion is to become enlightened on the topic ..
all around too.
Not just on the specs.
Not just on the open qualities.
Not just on it's security.
Nor the potential to run whatever platform can be crammed into it.
Nor it's longevity (which should be a decade+)
for arguments sake..
for the moment let's look at the price.
If half of you here "actually" read past the 1st sentence.
the price is not fixed.
it is the extreme estimate with minimal customer orders.
expect the price to drop when orders climb.
There are for this particular run a specific maximum set number of devices which can be created..
which is dependent mainly upon the availability of the number of n900 housings which can be gotten for the boards
estimated at roughly 2000 max. housings = a maximum possible 2000 neo900 devices to ship.
(not counting those customers with their own n900's to cannibalize to put a neo900 board into..)
Future runs ..future neo910 (?) models would be based upon newly designed housings.
So jump on board or not.
Wait too long and you may not have an option.
They took too long to develop it. Now that they are finally coming out with it, it's pretty crusty hardware already. Yeah, the original N900 was a popular nerd phone back in the day, but it's already over half a decade old product.
They hate it when you do that!
You're (the right usage of "you're") post invalidated the first half of your sig.
People who say "this is crap because I can buy a Nexus or Galaxy or android-device-of-the-month for far less money" don't have a clue about what the Neo900 is or why its nothing like the Nexus or Galaxy or other Android devices.
Things the Neo900 has that NONE of the current high-end Android devices (the things most people are going to be comparing the Neo900 to) have:
Physical hardware keyboard (there are still people like me who love physical keyboards and wont buy a phone without one)
Hardware enforced separation between the modem and the main CPU (this means that the rumors that the NSA can listen to you via your cellphone microphone are definatly NOT going to happen on a Neo900)
No closed blobs for the cellular radio on the main CPU side (pretty much all "open" android ROMs still require a closed-source radio library specific to the radio in your particular Android device. The Neo900 will have a 100% open source library to talk to the cellular radio module)
No closed blobs on the main CPU side for WiFi, bluetooth, NFC, audio, touch screen, camera, GPS or sensors (unlike even the Google Nexus phones which require closed blobs for many pieces of hardware)
Full schematics and hardware documentation available (show me a high-end phone where you can get THAT)
The Neo900 isn't meant to be a competitor to the Samsung Galaxy or Apple iPhone or Google Nexus. Its meant to be a phone for people who care about their privacy and want a device where they control all the software running on the main CPU and can be sure none of the other CPUs in the device have access to the main CPU/RAM/storage or to hardware like the microphone. And a phone for hardware geeks who want a hackable device and one THEY control and not some carrier or OEM (there are phones where the bootloader started out unlocked and was then locked by an OTA update)
Its got LTE, 802.11a/b/g/n WiFi and bluetooth 4.0 low energy for fast speeds and the ability to talk to other devices.
The 3 modem options available mean its compatible with many carriers all over the world.
I loved my N900, and still have it despite the flaky USB port and the amount of battery it chugs, the fact that Maemo wasn't as free as you'd hoped and that it was supported by Nokia about as well as Nokia supported anything. Because of that, I've been watching the Neo900 project for quite some time, although I'll admit it wasn't until today that I payed closer attention to the frequency options (since they were always subject to change anyway).
There isn't a good world phone option. Given the chips they're working with, the world options (Euro LTE or penta-band UMTS) won't work with T-Mobile USA's UMTS or LTE networks [as far as I can map support and bands?], and the US version won't work at all in Japan. Compare that to other pentaband phones which drop the 800MHz for the AWS band, which work worldwide.
Off-topic, but does anyone click on any of the "Video" stories, or is that like the real-estate used for the Dice ads?
For those wholly confused by what this is, it's not intended at all as a competitor for Android or iOS based devices, it exists for its own reasons. A car analogy (do users here still ask for those? Or here do car analogies ask for users?): telling someone looking to get an Neo900 to get an Apple iPhone or Samsung Galaxy would be like telling someone to get a Ferrari 458 or Lamborghini Huracan rather than a Rolls Royce Phantom. Sure, the Ferrari and Lamborghini are cheaper, faster, and more likely to be on the poster in your room; but someone wanting to buy the Rolls isn't going to be impressed by that.
Never trust anyone over 90000.
Motherboard replacements and case replacements will gain traction just like in the assemble your own PC era.
Well not very likely.
That did work for the openmoko because the neo 1973 and neo freerunner (i have one!) have been designed from the gound up with an open hardware approach.
They have been designed to be easy to open, easy to hack, easy to replace parts.
Thus upgrade kits like gta04 were likely.
That does work now for the N900, because they are a little bit older generation, back at a time when case were a bit bulkier, battery was replaceable, etc.
There are also a lot of them out in the wild. (Basically, for a long time the Maemo where *THE* definite platforms for geeks to go, N900 was the most popular, and there were only 2 others before).
You could make a Neo900 upgrade kit that is more or less practical.
That won't work with modern smartphones:
- first they are absurdly compact and small (just to have a "better number" on the check list. not that it's actually usefull, specially when the end users will enclose them in an over-priced after-market case anyway).
- they are often very hard to dissassamble (both because of the previous point, but also because it makes them more resistant to moisture etc. if they are in an enclosing never designed to be opened)
- some don't even have removable batteries.
- to make quick buck these companies tend to launch one new model every 6 months (yeah, imagine a replacement borad for iPhone. iPhones are popular, isn't it ? except that there are a dozen of them by now)
- also most of these companies aren't targetting geeks in the first place (unlike nokia maemo platform) and thus aren't likely to be held by users actually able to use an upgrade kit.
I suspect that the Jolla's sailfish phone is the only probable next target for an upgrade kit.
But in general, the case is the least problematice in smart phones.
It makes more sense to 3D print a new case around an existing board, rather than try to fit a new board inside an existing phone.
Usually, the screen is the most complex, instead.
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