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Study: Science Still Seen As a Male Profession

sciencehabit sends news of a study published in the Journal of Educational Psychology which found that science is still perceived as a predominantly male profession across the world. The results were broken out by country, and while the overall trend stayed consistent throughout (PDF), there were variations in perception. For explicit bias: "Countries where this association was strongest included South Africa and Japan. The United States ranked in the middle, with a score similar to Austria, Mexico, and Brazil. Portugal, Spain, and Canada were among the countries where the explicit bias was weakest." For implicit bias: "Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, and Sweden were among the countries with the highest implicit bias scores. The United States again came in at the middle of the pack, scoring similarly to Singapore. Portugal, Spain, and Mexico had among the lowest implicit bias scores, though the respondents still associated science more with men than with women."

23 of 295 comments (clear)

  1. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nursing and Childcare are *still* seen as female professions. Who gives a fuck?

    1. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Gender studies majors do.

      See, they make their career out of pushing to get more women into careers that nobody is keeping women out of but in which there are not nearly as many women as there are men, because women choose to go into things like... gender studies... instead.

    2. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nursing and Childcare are *still* seen as female professions. Who gives a fuck?

      All the divorced men who get to see their kids every other weekend because the courts say women are 'better' at nursing and childcare (unless she's a drug addict or something, then *maybe* - only maybe - the father might get custody). If the guys are really lucky they might even get to keep enough to survive out of their paycheck too.

    3. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Notice how there's never any headlines proclaiming the travesties of the coal miner gap, or how homeless bottle picking is seen as a male profession.

    4. Re:And? by trout007 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    5. Re:And? by Yosho · · Score: 3, Interesting

      (unless she's a drug addict or something, then *maybe* - only maybe - the father might get custody)

      Nope. I know a guy who is divorced; he's a perfectly decent guy, has a steady job, and loves his daughter, but is only allowed to see her for a few weeks a year. His ex-wife is a jobless drug addict who depends on her new husband for income, and she's even shown up to court high before. But she gets custody of their daughter, because she's female and therefore is obviously a better caretaker.

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    6. Re:And? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Women are still going to be 100% of the mothers and men 100% of the fathers.

      Not necessarily. Men can carry a baby to term via embryo implantation and abdominal pregnancy. A gynecologist once discussed abdominal pregnancy on a TV show, and mentioned that it was possible for a man to gestate a baby, but she didn't think any man would be interested. She later claimed that she was contacted by dozens of men willing to volunteer.

      Disclaimer: I was not one of the volunteers.

    7. Re:And? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not the point though.

      You can't force people to do things. Women already want to be scientists.

      And women already are scientists - and engineers. I've worked with a dozen or more - I wasn't keeping count though.

      Perhaps they would be a good place to start when trying to get more women involved in STEM careers.

      And that is the strangest thing, we don't seem to hear much about women who are already in STEM, only how men are keeping them out of STEM.

      Want a role model for women in STEM? Ty Hedy Lamarr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...

      Here is the co-inventor of spread spectrum radio and a few other things, extremely intelligent, and if it important to anyone, stunningly beautiful.

      But there are obviously many more. Why don't we hear more about them?

      STEM, especially for the Scientists and engineers is not a career for the easily dissuaded. You are studying while the MBA and liberal arts students are partying - that's not hype.

      And to claim that some woman has been so negatively affected by a photo of a playboy model's face, or a sophmoric joke about a dongle that it causes rejection as a career is as sensible as saying looking at a Barbie doll caused a girl to become bulemic. A scientist would tell you that the eating problem already existed, and at worst, the Barbie Doll, was merely a fixation.

      In the end, the women in STEM movement does women a terrible disservice, painting them as weak creatures, all too easily dissuaded from careers that they would otherwise excel in, just by sexual references or distractions.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:And? by Guppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Men can carry a baby to term via embryo implantation and abdominal pregnancy.

      This is so insanely dangerous (to both parent and fetus), that any physician who assisted in setting such a thing up would be in danger of having their license yanked. A number of healthy live births have been reported, but most often this special case of ectopic pregnancy ends up being surgically aborted -- because when allowed to proceed the likely scenario is massive hemorrhage followed by demise of the fetus (and maybe the parent too).

      That being said, it makes for an interesting thought experiment. You'd probably want to select for a male embryo to implant, as the man's hormones will cause abnormal genitalia in a female infant. You might be able to alleviate this problem with testosterone suppression therapy (after all, females normally have a small amount of circulating testosterone naturally -- but it really doesn't take much excess to virilize a female fetus). What to do about other hormones is also an interesting question -- for instance, how necessary would it be to supplement progesterone, for instance?

      Another important issue is the immunological tolerance that occurs in the female, we don't know if males will respond appropriately to with induction of the special partially-suppressed state that occurs during pregnancy. We also don't really know what all the hormones and other substances pumped out by the placenta and fetus would do to the male host.

    9. Re:And? by rea1l1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the belief that women and men are so psychologically different is what causes them to be different.

      There are some general differences in chemical composition (estrogen vs testosterone), and that mainly only plays an affect during & after puberty, but the most formative thoughts of our youth are environmentally malleable (their parents thoughts). These thoughts are products of physical results of those chemicals guiding the formation of social roles around physical form: men are generally stronger so men do things that require strength, leaving women to do things that don't.

  2. Unfortunately, this is women's perception by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As long as female culture remains the culture of fear (anti-nuclear, anti-GMO, anti-vax) it is women who will see STEM as being a man's world.

    1. Re:Unfortunately, this is women's perception by Mr.+Shotgun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As long as science is mostly male, it will be seen as a mostly male profession.

      I didn't know the tautology club was having a secret meeting here. But seriously, you know what could fix this imbalance? Maybe women who have an interest and the knack for science could, I dunno, go to school for it and become scientists themselves? Then it might balance the gender ratio a bit. I mean, it's worth a shot.

      --
      Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
  3. Feminism Friday by Bathroom+Humor · · Score: 5, Funny

    Came a day late this week?

  4. What's more obvious to me ... by Egg+Sniper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just got back from a scientific conference with thousands of attendees from around the world. There were plenty of women around (still less than half, of course), but virtually no black people, and not too many Hispanics either. Lots of white people and Europeans and Asians. Just an observation - I'm not trying to emphasize any particular issue or value anything over anything else.

  5. Re:Genderwar Bait Thread by Tanuki64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know. So what? They want hatred. They get hatred. For serious discussions I go elsewhere. I would never write anything constructive on /. anymore.

  6. And in other news by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Far more men than women are interested in joining the sciences as a career.

    So really, Science is predominantly male and that is by choice of the women. The good thing is that any woman that wants to be a scientist and has the talents and skills can be one in the western world. The reality is that most do not want to. Deal with it.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  7. the corporations need more cheap labor by rightwingLeftist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    feminism expands the pool of labor.... growing the supply of labor faster than the demand for labor suppresses wage growth, which increases profit growth. That means more money for corporate shareholders and more money spent on advertising in the corporate media. Won't someone PLEASE think of the corporations, the plutocrats that own them, and the media that is supported by them???!!

    --
    posting at http://leftistconservative.blogspot.com
  8. Re: Guys just look better in lab coats. by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about if we believe your conclusions but do not think your data supports your claim, ie you are viewing what you wish due to your observations which are obviously (and not a fault) biased?

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  9. Re:Well... by Mr.+Shotgun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you'd gone to college, you might have noticed that men make up 62% of faculty.

    If you had gone to high school, you might have noticed that women make up 84% of the teaching staff. Citation because you don't.

    --
    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
  10. Re: Guys just look better in lab coats. by Pubstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >If your reaction to this is to disbelieve my credentials, then you are part of the problem.

    >Post made as AC

    Welp, I'll gladly be part of the problem not believing something posted on the internet anonymously.

  11. That test is unscientific by tgv · · Score: 3, Informative

    The implicit bias test used is controversial, to say the least. According to mainstream cognitive psychology, it measures temporary perceptual associations via priming. These do not have a causal relation with higher level opinions. The effect can be caused by something as uninteresting as the local way of referring to science and scientists.

    Methods? They had a large number of factors to correlate with their data: 25 (possibly a few more, depending on what you read), and ran a multiple regression over it, and are reporting an effect for every p .05. That's bad science at multiple levels.

    It's just another fishing expedition.

  12. Science is Anti-Family by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Amen! Science is a difficult profession with a long and winding road until you get a stable career, and no guarantees even after boatloads of education. You often have to be willing to sacrifice a family and personal life early on to make coin in the profession.

    Women tend to value family life and family issues more than men. I won't put a value judgement on that preference here, but the practical side is that science is NOT a family-oriented line of work.

  13. Re:Can Political Correctness please wake up? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is a New York state law banning male daycare teachers from changing diapers.
    There is a strong preference in custody cases that the child will end up with the mother, even if she isn't nearly as fit to parent.

    There is actually more of a written inequality against men then woman.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.