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Russian Space Agency Misused $1.8 Billion, May Be Replaced

Posted by Soulskill on from the that's-a-lot-of-vodka dept.

An anonymous reader writes: After a pair of high profile launch failures in the past few months, Russian space agency Roscosmos is making headlines again: this time for corruption. A public spending watchdog reported that the organization had misused 92 billion rubles ($1.8 billion) in 2014 alone. Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said their space efforts have been undermined by rampant corruption. "We have uncovered acts of fraud, abuse of authority (and) document forgery. With such a level of moral decay, one should not be surprised at the high accident rate." He also said Roscosmos is to be "abolished," and replaced by a state corporation of the same name by the end of the year. "In its new, corporate identity, Roscosmos will be responsible not only for setting mission goals but managing wages for space industry workers and modernizing production facilities."

62 of 94 comments (clear)

  1. Corruption? In Russia? by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Funny

    I am shocked and appalled.

    --
    Circumcision is child abuse.
    1. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not like it doesn't happen ANY country. You can call it WHATEVER you like!

    2. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by countSudoku() · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "At least, the Russian government is doing something about it."

      No, no they're not. It's just being swept underneath a bigger rug. A rug also filled with many vermin who will enact the same corruption as before, but hide it more betterly. At least in the US our media outlets get to cover this kind of thing to keep them honest and transparent. In Russia, the media is in on the caper. 100% true facts, kid. Get a clue next time you chime into a topic. I'll bet on NASA over the Kosmonuts on EVERY occasion. BOOM!!1! That JUST HAPPENED! (only a simulation, had another Russian Space Junk Probe blown up we'd have funny pix on Instagrab already, dingus.)

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    3. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by Rei · · Score: 1

      Really? That's your example of something comparable to Roscosmos embezzling 10% of its annual budget? Operation Lightning Strike which turned out to be a big entrapment op that spent years trying to convince non-key players to commit crimes that they never would have otherwise, and a link that's anything but an endictment of NASA?

      --
      POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
    4. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by dunkindave · · Score: 2

      Seriously though: whether in Russia or in the USA, such an important agency, in charge of a large budget, is bound to generate fraud and shady dealings.

      Sadly, the rule of thumb in the US government is they assume about 5-10% of a project's budget is lost to corruption/abuse/theft/fraud/etc., with it averaging about 7%. When you think about that the total US government annual budget is almost $4 trillion, that means they are estimated to loose around $300 billion each year (it was estimated to be $261 billion in 2012).

    5. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by jblues · · Score: 1

      That's a good point. Its the rampant corruption you hear about reported in the media (especially local) that is being solved. When everybody knows about it, but nobody talks about it publicly then things are even worse.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    6. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by jblues · · Score: 1

      Oops. Trigger happy. I was aiming for 'funny' and accidentally fired 'overrated'. Reverting.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    7. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The media in the USA is the most dishonest I've seen.

      Then you haven't seen many medias. I'll just note that there was a very relevant society who once named their chief propaganda outlet, "Truth" which just happens to be "Pravda" in anglicized Russian.

    8. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Here is how it works. What Germany was versus what Germany is now. What Japan was versus what Japan is now. What Russia was versus what Russia is now. I don't need to tell you what the 'was' was or the self evident reality of what the 'is now' is. Unfortunately what the USA was versus what the USA is now, tells the opposite story of how things can sour and go bad.

      Government private partnerships are more often about blatant corruption than anything to do with serving the public PS that Roscosmos partnership was crafted by Western Financiers in association with corrupt Russians. I think there is going to be a cleaning out of Russian oligarchs, something that puts real fear in all the other oligarchs around the world, that visible demonstration of how exposed and vulnerable they are in reality.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by murdocj · · Score: 1

      Obviously you haven't seen much.

    10. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by murdocj · · Score: 1

      It's probably worse than just installing a new corrupt admin... it's probably putting in more of Putin's buddies into power. In fact, it's probably coming out now not because the government is suddenly appalled by corruption, but as a convenient excuse for Putin to reward some friends.

    11. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      At least the Russians can get people into space...

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    12. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      The media in the USA is the most dishonest I've seen. Their entire goal is to generate misinfotainment that is interesting enough to generate more ad revenue.

      I went to rt.com to get the other side, and it's really about the same as the CNN one.
      http://rt.com/news/261201-rosc...

      They also have some enlightening articles right on their front page:
      "Internet troll convictions on the rise (VIDEO)"
      "Counter attack: MP asks law enforcers to protect Russians from Google page counts"
      "Putin signs bill on ‘undesirable foreign groups’ into law"
      "Defense Ministry to improve conscripts’ preparedness through military lessons in schools"
      "Snowden leaks aided terrorists, damaged spy agencies – neocon think-tank"

      Oh, and they have hardly any ads on their site and no subscription plan, so I guess their funded some other way... neat!

    13. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by khallow · · Score: 2

      So just how badly are you trying to lose this argument?

    14. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I think I see where you're both going, and I agree with him. It's not like just any asshole can broadcast. The government decides who's even allowed to bid on spectrum, so even if there were nothing fancier going on, there's manipulation at that level. But beyond that, Fox "News" and their victory in court against having to even try to tell the truth when they call it news is vindication of the position. The mainstream media does the will of the government, and buys legislation in same, to the extent that the lines between the two are blurred.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      Not sure whether it's sick or funny sticking to the information sources which are 30 years old by now. I think the latter. Say hi to the previous millenium, dude, I miss the time when I was young and such.

    16. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      In short, the issue of corruption in Russia is typically raised by the people (Browder, etc.) who used to like corruption in that country when it benefited them. Which strongly suggests that they actually care about their lost revenue.

      It's detailed in a recent article by Mark Ames -- an American who has actually lived in 1990s in Russia (and ran a local English-language newspaper) and who sheds some light on Browder's past attitudes regarding corruption in Russia.

      http://pando.com/2015/05/17/ne...

      All the good people on the Web who have suddenly started to worry about Russia, take some interest in learning about 1990s in that country. It's the best part of the story which provides the context for understanding the current affairs.

    17. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      This has been going on since the days of Sputnik and Uri Gagarin. Even the great Sergei Korrolyev (The master mind behind the space race) used the budget as his own personal slush fund

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    18. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I would love to see your evidence of this as the GAO would be out of a job if they left that much waste.

      Also, if you have evidence of this level of corruption, there is a reporting phone number. I believe they give you a cut of the recovered moneys for every factual report.

      http://www.gao.gov/fraudnet/fr...

      So, if you have any evidence of this level of waste, I suggest you report it. You could be a very wealthy person.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    19. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by dunkindave · · Score: 1

      I would love to see your evidence of this as the GAO would be out of a job if they left that much waste.

      Have you heard of this thing called a search engine? You should try it.

      Here is just one article that came up as the first result on Google: Federal government continues to lose billions to waste, fraud and abuse

      If you have any more questions you can ask Darrell Issa who chairs the House Oversight Committee whose committee was investigating said fraud and reported the numbers given.

    20. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      I would love to see your evidence of this as the GAO would be out of a job if they left that much waste.

      Have you heard of this thing called a search engine? You should try it.

      Here is just one article that came up as the first result on Google: Federal government continues to lose billions to waste, fraud and abuse

      If you have any more questions you can ask Darrell Issa who chairs the House Oversight Committee whose committee was investigating said fraud and reported the numbers given.

      I have serious doubts that Darrell "Benghazi!!!!" Issa would know corruption if it bit him in the nether regions. And before you go all partisan on me, you should note that the list of dishonorable mentions on the same page is balanced between the parties.

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    21. Re: Corruption? In Russia? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      How many people died?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    22. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by hawkfish · · Score: 2

      You don't like the numbers that have been published but have no facts to support what you would rather believe so you attack the reputation of the source of the numbers as your fallback. Have you considered pursuing a career as a lawyer or politician? You would fit right in.

      My point is that you have no facts either, just the rantings of one of the most corrupt politicians in the House (which is ironic, given that we are talking about corruption...) You did not provide any sources for Mr. Issa's claim - and neither did the Post article you cited. In fact, the same article provided another (unsourced) number that was less than half what Mr. Issa claims.

      Moreover, the article you linked was not written by the Post itself, but by some "senior principal analyst" at a company that specialises in government contracting! Do you think that maybe claiming that their competitors are missing billions of dollars in "waste, fraud and abuse" might just be a marketing ploy?

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    23. Re:Corruption? In Russia? by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      Have you heard of this thing called a search engine? You should try it.

      Protip: Blindly using a search engine is not research.

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
  2. The problem by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Was probably that they were bribing the wrong people, not the corruption itself.

    1. Re:The problem by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 1

      Pah. More like they got on the radar by losing a couple rockets. Putin's not above trumping up charges against people who piss him off.

  3. This seems foolproof! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, let me get this straight: your public-sector space program is a fucked-up labyrinth of corruption, fraud, and mismanagement.

    You propose to replace it with a sole-source, crony capitalist, 'state corporation', to take advantage of the important synergies between the public sector's capabilities in corruption and mediocrity and the private sector's sophistication in financial and organizational malfeasance?

    Christ, guys, if you keep this up I'll start feeling good about US mil/aero procurement practices by comparison...

    You can argue about the relative virtues of public sector and private sector agents for various purposes; but there is no lower form of life than the crony capitalist entity when it comes to corruption.

    1. Re:This seems foolproof! by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Russian government has more efficient and cost effective methods of corruption.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:This seems foolproof! by aaron4801 · · Score: 2

      And where will all the employees for this "new" corporation come from? Perhaps Russia has a bigger space exploration industry than I'm giving it credit for, but my guess is Roscosmos.
      So to sum up, this reorganization will keep the same name, operate out of the same facilities, and (likely) keep a substantial amount of the same employees. The only difference(?) is that instead of a state-run agency, it will be a state-run corporation. Oh and magically all the corruption will stop.

    3. Re:This seems foolproof! by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      They will replace the management layer. Meaning new hands on the money.

    4. Re:This seems foolproof! by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is, after all, the same country whose 28 mile road to the Olympics cost more than if they'd covered the whole road with gold medals two layers thick. ;)

      Concerning this privatization, the only question that remains is, which friend of Putin is going to get to "buy" the space agency at a " fair market value" ;)

      --
      POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
    5. Re:This seems foolproof! by Monty845 · · Score: 2

      What is really going on is that there were two high profile rocket explosions. As long as the rocket launches were going fine, no one cared about the corruption. Now so "something" needs to be done, so they will take this action against corruption to fix the problem.

    6. Re:This seems foolproof! by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 2

      While you are right, what puzzles me here is that they name corruption as the cause of problems. Usually, even if you identify corruption as a problem, you do not call it corruption, nowhere and never (and it's not as if Russia is the only country where corruption is rampant). While I wonder what exactly hides behind this news tidbit -- and we all know that the message itself is likely very far from communicating what is actually happening or intended -- I assume that even bringing up corruption in this context might be a message in itself. Then again, what do I know ... someone enlighten us (Edja Snegskowsky, help us out!).

      --
      I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    7. Re:This seems foolproof! by K.+S.+Van+Horn · · Score: 1

      Actually, this sounds to me a lot better than what happens in the U.S. -- when does a corrupt U.S. Federal agency ever get cleaned out top to bottom?

    8. Re:This seems foolproof! by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      The Russian government has more efficient and cost effective methods of corruption.

      Much better leak controls as well. Documents that can expose corruption are labeled state secrets and whistle-blowers are imprisoned for exposing state secrets. Think how much they can save on tiresome book-cooking and cover stories.

    9. Re:This seems foolproof! by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 2
      "You propose to replace it with a sole-source, crony capitalist, 'state corporation', to take advantage of the important synergies between the public sector's capabilities in corruption and mediocrity and the private sector's sophistication in financial and organizational malfeasance?"

      (No, I'm not going to write it! NO! I said! My will is strong! I cannot...)

      In Soviet Russia, State corrupts Corporations!

      (Dagnabbit...)

      --
      Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
    10. Re: This seems foolproof! by Rei · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's true - olympic medals are only required to contain a minimum of 6 grams of gold, and at least 92% silver. Even still, it's a an incredible price

      $9.4 billion for a 28 mile road. And we're not talking through an urban area, just simple new constuction. 4 lines. 28 miles. 45000 meters long with an actual driving width of... oh, let's say 3,5 meters per lane? Not sure what's typical. So about 157500 square meters. $60k per square meter. I mean, seriously, just think about that. You could stack $1000 Louie Vitton handbags 5 layers deep across the whole road for that money. $9.4 billion for 28 miles? You could pay Russians $3 an hour to carry passengers on their shoulder at 3 miles per hour and carry 50 thousand passengers per day every day and it wouldn't cost as much as the road for nearly 20 years.

      --
      POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
    11. Re:This seems foolproof! by mirix · · Score: 1

      But they are already under direct government ownership. It's going from being a direct government agency, to a (presumably somewhat less directly controlled?) state corporation. Maybe they will sell 49%.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    12. Re:This seems foolproof! by towermac · · Score: 1

      Yes, two birds with but one stone.

      There really is a movement in Russia to do something about the rampant corruption.

      There really have been 2 big rocket mistakes recently, that a non-corrupt agency (Go NASA; seriously, you rock) would likely have caught.

      To really end corruption, in any agency; he's going to have to take direct control of it. This is going to be a double win for Putin in Russia. The man can do no wrong. I think I'm becoming a fan.

      And btw, doesn't NASA report to the President? Doesn't congress directly allocate, oversee, all that? He probably should have done this a long time ago.

    13. Re:This seems foolproof! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      If I had the slightest confidence that this would actually involve a 'top to bottom' cleaning; I might be more optimistic(though with the caveat that 'top to bottom' purges have the unfortunate side effect of causing massive attrition among your skilled labor, even the stuff not in position to do anything more corrupt than take an extra long lunch break; which could be pretty brutal for an entity that is supposed to do rocket science). As it is, this sounds a lot more like some deck-chair shuffling.

      If that is the case, our very own 'Department of Homeland Security' represents a reshuffling at least as large, absorbing as it did various departments under the vague theory that they hadn't been anti-terrorist enough. It...hasn't really been much to write home about.

    14. Re: This seems foolproof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bollocks
      The road includes a railway line (strange that wasn't mentioned) and a shit load of bridges

      The original source is a political attack video so anything like Louie Vitton handbags is just shit
      Fuck, they are making John Pilger look unbiased!
      (John Pilger is Micheal Moore on steroids)

      The total lack of information on the railway and the terrain means any information on the price must also be suspect (in other words - Total Bullshit)

    15. Re: This seems foolproof! by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      Let's completely ignore the fact that it was a rail and road project. Not just 28 miles of road. Also lets ignore that the project has 46 bridges and 12 tunnels with the tunnel lengths being 30 miles.

      Was the project over budget? Absolutely. But it was a rushed project because of olympic deadline. When you build something you can built on time, on budget or to quality. Pick 2.

      The road also ran essentially along a river bank through a mountain range.

    16. Re: This seems foolproof! by Rei · · Score: 1

      I counted four lanes, but you're right, it's actually only two lanes, the other half is a rail line. So half of what I accounted for being rail rather than road totally justifies $60k per square meter!

      And bridges! Wow, no road has ever included bridges before! We're not talking the Danyang–Kunshan here, they're little bridges over a little river. And the terrain of the valley bottom would be considered "flat" by the standards of many countries, such as Japan. I drive on roads with more elevation change than that every time I go to my land.

      There's absolutely zero reason for a 28 mile road through the countryside to cost 9.4 billion dollars. None. The longest road tunnel in the world is over 15 miles long and cost a grand total of $113 million. In Sweden, where wages are tenfold what they are in Russia.

      (Lastly, I have no clue what you mean by "original source video". )

      --
      POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
    17. Re: This seems foolproof! by Rei · · Score: 1

      Oops, sorry, in Norway. Where wages are even more expensive than they are in Sweden ;)

      --
      POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
    18. Re: This seems foolproof! by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      A 28-mile road with 30 miles of tunnels? I don't think the cost is the only thing to not add up.

    19. Re: This seems foolproof! by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1

      That's a badass-looking tunnel by the way.

      The construction started 20 years ago but still, of course it's somehow way cheaper than Russia's clusterfuck even adjusted for inflation.

    20. Re: This seems foolproof! by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      Sigh. Road AND Rail. Which means two of everything minimum. Also the rail line is over 40 miles because of grade considerations.

    21. Re:This seems foolproof! by mirix · · Score: 1

      Impeccable logic.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
  4. Meta-corruption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Knowing what things look like in Russia, one has to wonder whether this is has some elements of politics as well - is one of the Russian oligarchs trying to take control of the space industry and get more money into their pockets by replacing the existing organization with one tied to themselves? Knowing how rampant corruption runs in Russia, announcing it so dramatically at this point in time might have ulterior motives...

    1. Re:Meta-corruption? by estestvoispytatel · · Score: 1

      It's even simpler - they have a new chief of the space agency, two spectacular failures to reach an orbit in one month and the new cosmodrome which was promised to Putin to be able to launch its first rocket by the end of this year (which is clearly impossible). So, it's time to sacrifice some person or two.

  5. Misplaced? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

    That's a lot of money to lose... I wonder if Russia has some off-the-books military project so secretive they can't even account for the money going into it.

    1. Re:Misplaced? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't think so.
      Embezzlement is rampant in Russia. The money is probably sunk in the management houses - for some reason they are crazy about bling-bling in the 18th century nobility style.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Misplaced? by richlv · · Score: 1

      a bit :)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Palace

      and with more images at http://www.supercompressor.com/home/photos-of-vladimir-putin-s-secret-palace-tour-of-1-billion-russian-home

      --
      Rich
  6. Putin would like to get his hands on that money by stonedown · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When Putin charges someone with corruption, it's usually because they control government expenditures and are unwilling to give him his usual kickback. So, it looks like he's going to create a new space agency and install an ally to take advantage of the inherent business opportunities provided by access to a budget of over $5 billion.

    Read more about Putin's kleptocracy here:

    http://www.reuters.com/investi...

  7. Corruption? by captnjohnny1618 · · Score: 1

    Corruption?! In Russia?! Unthinkable... I won't believe it.

    * so much sarcasm*

  8. What? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

    So the solution to rampant corruption is to rebrand it, spin it as a corporation, and hope for the best? That sounds like great logic, especially in Russia.

    1. Re:What? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Rebranding?! They're using the same name - 'Ruscosmos' - for the new agency, instead of giving it a new name.

    2. Re:What? by Lagmo · · Score: 1

      Rebranding?! They're using the same name - 'Ruscosmos' - for the new agency, instead of giving it a new name.

      Indeed 'Ruscorruptmos' has a nice ring to it :)

  9. Change without a difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    'Russian space agency Roscosmos is to be "abolished," and replaced by a state corporation of the same name.'

    Well alrighty then! I'm sure this will be little more than a new paint job on an old boat.

  10. Re:I wonder by mOzone · · Score: 1

    in usa we lost more then 1.8 billion on some health care exchanges 4.9 billion so far 2014 to now
    we should follow Russia's lead and clean up gov that wastes money cia/atf/health/etc

  11. It's a spectrum by conquistadorst · · Score: 1

    For all the people comparing Russian corruption to other countries, particularly the US... We all have to realize it's present everywhere but there's also full spectrum of colors and subcolors that could describe types and severities. Certain types of corruption are far more rampant in some countries while negligible in another, and vice versa. Anyone who thinks there's a country that does not have any corruption is a devoted blind fool. Overall however, I would definitely put most "developing" countries (like Russia) on the upper echelons of said spectrum. I do always find it somewhat odd that Russia is considered a developing country by many economists though.

  12. Corporatism by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

    and replaced by a state corporation of the same name by the end of the year. "In its new, corporate identity, Roscosmos will be responsible not only for setting mission goals but managing wages for space industry workers and modernizing production facilities."

    THAT'S how you fight corrupt (semi) public officials! You turn the whole thing in a corporation. When the executives then give themselves exorbitant salaries and benefits (incl. pensions), and hand themselves 15-25% wage increases year over year, while at the same time "managing wages for space industry workers" and doing a "realignment" every couple of years, it's just good business!

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.