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Let's Take This Open Floor Plan To the Next Level

theodp writes: In response to those of you who are unhappy with your Open Office, McSweeney's has some ideas for taking the open floor plan to the next level. "Our open floor plan was decided upon after rigorous research that primarily involved looking at what cool internet companies were doing and reflexively copying them," writes Kelsey Rexroat. "We're dismayed and confused as to why their model isn't succeeding for our own business, and have concluded that we just haven't embraced the open floor plan ideals as fully as we possibly can. So team, let's take this open floor plan to the next level!" Among the changes being implemented in the spirit of transparency and collaboration: 1. "All tables, chairs, and filing cabinets will be replaced by see-through plastic furnishings." 2. "All desks will be mounted on wheels and arranged into four-desk clusters. At random intervals throughout the day, a whistle will blow, at which point you should quickly roll your desk into a new cluster." 3. "Employees' desktops will be randomly projected onto a movie screen in the center of the office." 4. "You can now dial into a designated phone line to listen in on any calls taking place within the office and add your opinion." Some workplaces might make you question just how tongue-in-cheek this description is.

100 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. And...and... by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...everybody should get naked. There...I said it.

    It's the logical end state of this whole open office thing. Complete transparency and no place to hide.

    --

    Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

    Vote for Bernie in 2016!

    1. Re:And...and... by Shoten · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...everybody should get naked. There...I said it.

      It's the logical end state of this whole open office thing. Complete transparency and no place to hide.

      With tech workers?? Do you actually WANT to see what some of these pale, flabby people look like without clothes on???

      Though, then again...if that was walking around me all the time, I'd keep my eyes focused squarely on my monitor and my work. My productivity would soar...hmmmmm....

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    2. Re:And...and... by MellowBob · · Score: 1

      Mhmmm ... faddy.

    3. Re: And...and... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

      Thus combining rigid control with a complete extraction of personal dignity. Sounds about like what upper management is aiming for.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    4. Re: And...and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh, its THAT guy..even when nobody is talking about TVs, he can't wait to talk about how stupid he thinks they are

      http://www.theonion.com/article/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-tel-429

    5. Re: And...and... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Not my fucking problem people if are retarded

      Unless you're being paid for supporting them, and then it kinda is, y'know. Because that's what you're drawing a paycheck for.

    6. Re:And...and... by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      ...everybody should get naked. There...I said it.

      It's the logical end state of this whole open office thing. Complete transparency and no place to hide.

      With tech workers?? Do you actually WANT to see what some of these pale, flabby people look like without clothes on???

      Though, then again...if that was walking around me all the time, I'd keep my eyes focused squarely on my monitor and my work. My productivity would soar...hmmmmm....

      Since we are in Slashdot, which constantly pimps for more female "tech workers", and since i am a sexist Greek making so many comments against that idea, i feel that now is my chance to make peace with all the SJWs... so: give us NUDE female "tech workers"... and beer... well, fuck the beer!

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    7. Re: And...and... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Thus combining rigid control with a complete extraction of personal dignity. Sounds about like what upper management is aiming for.

      Honestly, what it reminds me of is government a la the Progressive Left:

      "Hmmm... that didn't work. So let's try more of it."

      4 years later:

      "Hmmm... that didn't work. So let's try more of it."

    8. Re:And...and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you're fucking the beer you're doing it wrong.

    9. Re:And...and... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      the next step is to make the office smaller, so everyone has to be closer together.

      just rows of card tables, with chairs. 2 people per table, facing each other.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    10. Re:And...and... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Having over 50% young females on my floor, I vote for this.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    11. Re:And...and... by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      If you're fucking the beer you're doing it wrong.

      I am open to any good advise, so... please advise!

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    12. Re:And...and... by plopez · · Score: 2

      1) take clothes off
      2) open beer
      3) drink said beer
      4) wrap beer bottle or can in 90 grit sand paper
      5) bend over
      6) rapidly and forcefully insert beer bottle into anus

      You will soon be productive in a manner you never dreamed of. And you will make quite the impression on women. I've never done it, jusat trust me on it.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    13. Re:And...and... by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      1) take clothes off
      2) open beer
      3) drink said beer
      4) wrap beer bottle or can in 90 grit sand paper
      5) bend over
      6) rapidly and forcefully insert beer bottle into anus

      Check.

      You will soon be productive in a manner you never dreamed of.

      Oh, i am already more productive than i ever dreamed of: first time in years cleaning out my storeroom...

      And you will make quite the impression on women.

      I can't believe it, but just now a chick told me how impressive i look holding my chainsaw!

      I've never done it, jusat [sic!] trust me on it.

      I've never done it neither, but just trust me on it: can you please open your front door...

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    14. Re:And...and... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Just what are they doing on your floor? You should at the very least offer them a chair.

      Jeez. No wonder women don't like us....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    15. Re:And...and... by flopsquad · · Score: 1

      ...everybody should get naked. There...I said it.

      It's the logical end state of this whole open office thing. Complete transparency and no place to hide.

      We could fix airport security that way, too.

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    16. Re:And...and... by antdude · · Score: 1

      I hope I work with attractive women if that happens!

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    17. Re:And...and... by plopez · · Score: 1

      Nice come back.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    18. Re:And...and... by Sun · · Score: 1

      You are given nude female workers and beer, and it's the beer you choose to fuck?

      I question your self identity as a sexist.

      Shachar

    19. Re:And...and... by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      You are given nude female workers and beer, and it's the beer you choose to fuck?

      I question your self identity as a sexist.

      That's because you are not sexist enough - i am so sexist that i will choose to fuck the beer... yeah, that's how sexist i am!

      Shachar

      Not convinced yet that i am ultra sexist? I am a racist also, but just because our Greek deity of dawn is the female Eos, i prefer to worship that barbarian Shachar...

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
  2. Eh... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    Let's not and say we did.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  3. Those of you who are? by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Those of you who are?" You are implying that there are people out there that have to endure open office and do enjoy the experience.

    Open Office is an aberration and is a direct result of management-by-trend-chasing practice.

    1. Re:Those of you who are? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I recently had 2 interviews: one at HP and one at ebay.

      both were 'rows and rows of desks in an OO grid'. made me sick to see how dehumanizing it was. no, I did not get any offers from either of those 2 places. maybe it was a good thing.

      I saw next to no personal stuff on peoples' desks, there. I tend to bring things in from home (sometimes even computers or networking boxes that I need for a short term 'lab') but I would not feel ok doing that when no desk actually belongs to you, you come in, grab one of the 'open desks' and then use someone's grubby keyboard, probably still with cold and flu virus on the keys. not enough lockers (the concept of a locker at work also turns me off; as our desks USED to be lockers in their own right; stable ones we could always use and count on) and no security so I would not feel good about leaving my stuff there.

      there really seems to be a unified effort to dehumanize employees. also to reduce their pay, make them compete with foreigners (who live 6 or 12 to a house that only has 3 bedrooms), keep their payscales at an all-time low and fire you when your project is done.

      we truly are slipping back to the bad old days of millworkers in sweatshops. unions don't exist for hw/sw guys (generally) and there are no signs of anything coming back to help balance the power again.

      one thing is for sure: each time I see an OO plan, I throw up a little and I weep for us all, in our collective losses. HR keeps telling us 'the kids love it!' but even when I talk to 20somethings they really don't love this OO idea either.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Those of you who are? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Substitute "Agile" for "Open Office" and "open floor" and it applies equally well.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    3. Re:Those of you who are? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      both were 'rows and rows of desks in an OO grid'. made me sick to see how dehumanizing it was

      A couple jobs back, when I was looking to move back east from out west (Seattle) (primarily to be closer to my and my wife's parents, and my wife really didn't like the Washington climate), I interviewed with and had offers from Bloomberg in NYC and a company in Florida (Tampa area). While the salary was a little higher at Bloomberg (probably not enough to offset cost of living, though), what really drove me away from there and to accept the Florida company's offer was that Bloomberg offered a few feet of a long table in the same grid parent mentions whereas in Florida I would have a private office with a door and a window looking out on that everlasting Florida sunshine. After having an office at said Seattle company, it would take a lot to get me back to any sort of open office.

    4. Re:Those of you who are? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Open Offices suck for the employees but management loves them because they reduce capital investment and some costs.
      They are a rotten place to work.
      Unions never solve any problems they just drove the jobs off shore. There will always be some place with lower cost labor that the work can be off loaded too.

      The solution has always been there in the States. Quit working for others and start your own firm.

      So you go bankrupt. Learn from your mistakes and start another firm. So you go bankrupt again. Learn from more of your mistakes and start another firm.

      That is the only solution because ninety percent of you are NEVER GOING TO BE HAPPY WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

      Hint: Read the lives of business men and the history of their businesses. Especially that famous fellow who has accumulated a fortune while of all of his businesses folded.

    5. Re:Those of you who are? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      I've had my own office in almost every job (I count as exceptions the startups/under 20 person shops I worked in) since 1985. In the late '90's I needed to move into management to do it. In 2013, I had to move to my own company to do it. It was (and is) worth it.

      I remember when engineers were actually treated as professionals - offices, administrative assistants, and all. Now, you're treated in the information factory like the line workers you have become. It's a shame you decided not to have a union. They'll have you at treadmill desks to power your own machines soon. And you'll suck it up because you think you have no choice. Examine your axioms.

      --
      That is all.
    6. Re:Those of you who are? by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      At my HP location, our new "command center" is kinda OO, but with eight monitors per station and only a few other people close by, I still have some privacy. We still have cubes, even though mine is on a different floor and I never actually sit there. I've actually brought some old PC stuff from home and use it as "storage". They had the chance to make it all OO, at least on one floor. Total remodel, tore down almost all the internal walls, new carpet, ceiling tiles, network runs...but they put all the cubes back. Perhaps this is a benefit of living in a conservative area, maybe in 10-15 years they will finally do some OO.

      Honestly, if I was forced into some weird OO at my current job, I'd probably try to claim some type of "accommodation" due to my ADHD. It's already "on record", I'm sure I could press for a "reasonable accommodation" via the ADA. And I would have to, because my productivity would drop to zero in an OO.

    7. Re:Those of you who are? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      They reduce rent not capital cost. Furnishing either is the same.

      If the company you work for pays $36/SF per year, would you take an office if it meant you were paid $2,000 less per year?

      I appreciate software is different than engineering, but the collaboration, mentoring, and comorodory of an open office environment really helps build the business for us. While I do have an office, I would hope for more collaboration space rather than a larger workstation, although much smaller than 10' of desk space is a challenge.

    8. Re:Those of you who are? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      If the company you work for pays $36/SF per year, would you take an office if it meant you were paid $2,000 less per year?

      Yes. And the company would probably easily get it's $2000 back in a more productive work environment for me.

    9. Re:Those of you who are? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Is the open toilet next?

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    10. Re:Those of you who are? by The+Snowman · · Score: 1

      I appreciate software is different than engineering, but the collaboration, mentoring, and comorodory of an open office environment really helps build the business for us. While I do have an office

      You like the open office environment, although you have your own office... how nice. Open offices are really nice as long as it is someone else dealing with being packed in like cattle.

      --
      24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    11. Re:Those of you who are? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      I have had good cubicles most of my career, and personally prefer the collaboration. The main downside is not being able to use the speakerphone at your desk. For my role today that is not practical.

  4. Missing the 'why' of it. by Shoten · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Companies where the open office approach succeeded had something in common: the population of the office chose it for themselves, early on. They had an open office environment because that's how they wanted to work, and because the dynamic that existed between the employees was compatible with it. Then later, a lot of other companies had executives look at both the success of those companies and the lower real estate costs that the model uses, and decided they would "choose" it for their own staff. And that's not quite how it works. It's rather like deciding that your goldfish would be better off in a salt water tank because of how big the fish were in some other tank you saw, and then finding yourself confused as to why the fish all died. Not all cultures are the same, and you can't change the culture by imposing something upon it that is toxic.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    1. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by Veranix · · Score: 1

      Companies where the open office approach succeeded had something in common: the population of the office chose it for themselves, early on. They had an open office environment because that's how they wanted to work, and because the dynamic that existed between the employees was compatible with it. Then later, a lot of other companies had executives look at both the success of those companies and the lower real estate costs that the model uses, and decided they would "choose" it for their own staff. And that's not quite how it works. It's rather like deciding that your goldfish would be better off in a salt water tank because of how big the fish were in some other tank you saw, and then finding yourself confused as to why the fish all died. Not all cultures are the same, and you can't change the culture by imposing something upon it that is toxic.

      Exactly this, yes. The company I work for recently decided that "open, collaborative spaces" would be better for every team and department, regardless of the nature of their work or where they were located - which resulted in people working with financial data adjacent to and nigh surrounded by call centers, and other such "improvements".

      Shortly after this went into effect, they started experimenting with work-from-home programs, as many of us clamored for it. Oddly enough, productivity went up in many cases from the open office baseline, more cases than you'd expect for the potential distractions working from home can cause for the less-focused. It was almost as though moving to the open office plans had actually decreased productivity more than just closing the office entirely and having everyone telecommute.

    2. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Surrounded by Call Centers

      Brings back memories...

      I worked in a development team with 12 developers, a lead and a manager. In a single row of desks.

      Surrounded by 50 call center workers and other only slightly less annoying phone workers like Marketing people and people who just kind used of the company as their plaything because they'd been around quite a while, and of course they're on the phone all day. The CSA's were right there literally back to back, and our client-base was old and vulnerable people so they had to speak especially loudly on the phone.

      Oh and they arranged all the desks irrespective of the existing aircon system, and I could go on...

      In fact I will go on, they eventually banned us from using headphones for health and safety reasons! I kid you not.

      In my experience the concept of open-plan offices is nothing but a cost-saving exercise.

      The company no longer exists.

    3. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by nmb3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I disagree strongly that "culture" (a word that's constantly misconstrued by executive trying to justify a horrible workplace) has any bearing on whether an open plan is successful. It much more strongly depends on the type of work being done.

      A police bullpen or typing pool may be fine in a big open area. The same goes for sales and marketing types. However, if you're talking about any work which requires stretches of concentrated effort then it's just a Bad Idea. Engineers? No. Programmers? No. Accountants? No. Any kind of researcher? No.

      the lower real estate costs

      This is the only real reason they're pushing this model. It's a clear terminus of the erosion that's led us from offices, to cubicles, to the little half walls, to just acres of desks. Well, that, and wanting to look hip by copying other companies who are doing it.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    4. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Informative

      One of the most highly productive companies I worked for in the past had individual near sound-proofed offices for all their developers. The least productive companies all had one thing in common - chairs attached to common tables as desks, the epitome of the cheap open office concept.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    5. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by houghi · · Score: 1

      There are right ways of doing thiongs and wrong ways of doing things. What seems to be working in Europe is Open Plan per department or parts of departments if they become to big.

      You do not want people from one department mix with people from another department, because their working enviroment is different. I have know departments where when you entered, you could not hear anything. It was as if somebody had died, but they like it that way. The same company a different department there was laughter and noise all the time. Others hated it, but they loved it. Then the place where there was music on all the time. Not my typo of music, but they liked it.

      All had managers on the floor who agreed with or even enforced those rules. I know that people were hired not only on skill, but also if they would fit into the group. e.g. if you were a very outgoing person, you had no chance of getting into the 'dead room'. If you were socialy awkward, no going to the 'laughter' room.

      In almost all cases, it was up to the manager to dowhatever he liked with his department, as long as it was legal and he produced whatever his department was ment to produce, be it calls, code, accounting or sales.

      I can imagine that here in Europe, you need to have X m^2 per person, because I never saw anybody cramped into spaces, unless they were planning on moving or getting extra space within 6 months. And most of the time that ment moving departments around.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    6. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      A police bullpen or typing pool may be fine in a big open area. The same goes for sales and marketing types. However, if you're talking about any work which requires stretches of concentrated effort then it's just a Bad Idea. Engineers? No. Programmers? No. Accountants? No. Any kind of researcher? No.

      Have you ever seen a picture of an engineering/drafting office from say... anywhere between the late 1800's and the mid/late 1980's (when draftsmen started to be replaced by computers and the size of said offices began to shrink dramatically)? Big ass open plan offices - sometimes thousands of square feet of big ass open plan offices. The same goes for accounting departments. One of Frank Lloyd Wright's most celebrated designs (from 1936) had a big ass open plan office as it's centerpiece.
       
      We went to the bloody moon in vehicles designed in big ass open plan offices.
       
      Somewhere in my book collection, I have a book intended for professional engineers and engineering managers from the 1950's... which devotes three whole chapters to the knotty problem of laying out (invariably open plan) engineering offices and drafting rooms - mapping a 3d object onto a 2d arrangement of desks and drafting tables.
       

      This is the only real reason they're pushing this model. It's a clear terminus of the erosion that's led us from offices, to cubicles, to the little half walls, to just acres of desks.

      I don't know where this idea came from that "everyone had a private office until Evil Management latched onto the open plan" comes from, but it's complete bull. Private offices have long been the exception, proof that one was senior enough to rate one and to have Made It, not the rule.

    7. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      A police bullpen or typing pool may be fine in a big open area. The same goes for sales and marketing types. However, if you're talking about any work which requires stretches of concentrated effort then it's just a Bad Idea. Engineers? No. Programmers? No. Accountants? No. Any kind of researcher? No.

      This, different jobs have different requirements. Personally I hate open plan, but I find that if I can communicate quickly with my team it's very helpful. The problem is listening to everyone one else communicating with their team. Having been sat right next to sales, I'd rather be stuck in the dreariest, boxiest cube farm ever devised by Catbert, the evil director of human resources. Sales never shuts up, ever.

      the lower real estate costs

      Its not real estate, its tax.

      Certainly in Australia, a partition is not considered furniture, it's considered part of the building so the cost cant be amortised or depreciated as quickly as the desks and chairs (IIRC furniture is 3 years, walls have to be depreciated over 40).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:Missing the 'why' of it. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      The engineers would have needed to work in close proximity anyway and back then they lacked as many noisy devices interrupting for attention.

      Stick a phone which rings randomly on every desk and see how it affects the performance of your engineers and programmers.

  5. Labs with glass walls by Snotnose · · Score: 2

    Back in the 80s my company was designing a new building for us to move into. Management was excited about the idea of a round lab in the middle of the building, with glass walls so everyone could see the engineers at work. Us guys were pretty unhappy with the idea, but the idea wasn't fully torpedoed until a female engineer said "so you don't want us wearing skirts anymore, huh?"

  6. A Sign of the Times by jazman_777 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When something isn't working according to the theory, it's not because it's an incorrect theory, it's because people NEED TO TRY HARDER! More WILL needs to be applied. That is all.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    1. Re:A Sign of the Times by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      If you want to reduce your productivity as much as possible, spend as little on productivity enhancements as possible. Voila - open office floor plans. Great for 1 way seminars, terrible for actually getting work done that does require some communication and collaboration.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    2. Re:A Sign of the Times by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      When something isn't working according to the theory...

      The problem is often it does work. The successful companies can figure out why it worked and build on it. The unsuccessful ones will be the ones who push harder and can't figure out what's wrong and why it works for "those other guys".

      Seriously people talk about management 101, but the key people fail to realise is that management 102 is exactly the opposite. Based on my business degree I can conclude that the perfect workplace gives staff complete autonomy while being micromanaged, put them in cubes in the middle of their own private offices, treat them like a resource while empathising with them, and make the entire business follow a strict linear method while breaking down everything into small sections and working on them in parallel. Oh and the ideal company will have 15 levels of management, no I mean 2 levels of management, no I mean 15 levels of management, no I mean... I really don't know what I mean. Apparently it's all good and all bad at the same time.

  7. Almost worked there once by IronChef · · Score: 3, Funny

    I worked at an office which specified the objects you could have on your desk. Leave your stapler on your desk, and Lumberg would come by and tell you to put it away and tidy up.

    I was told it was part of their arrangement with the interior designer. Talk about form over function!

    1. Re:Almost worked there once by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Did you work at the Tetragrammaton Council office off the movie "Equilibrium"?

    2. Re:Almost worked there once by IronChef · · Score: 1

      I was a navigator at Gattaca.

  8. And a fish tank right in the middle by Megane · · Score: 1

    And a fish right in the middle of it all to remind everybody that this is an OPEN FLOOR PLAN DAMMIT!

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  9. Re:But.... but.... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    If a dongle joke permanently harms the female mind, then imagine what seeing an actual dongle will do! They will need years of therapy and counseling (paid for by Obama care) to get over it.

    People offended by naked people would naturally fail the job interview as "not a culture fit".

    It's the same way we picked people for Hellstrom's Hive...

  10. Obviously they should have seen Einstein's desk. by tlambert · · Score: 2

    Obviously they should have seen Einstein's desk.

    Here's a pretty good picture of what it typically looked like:

    http://blogs-images.forbes.com...

  11. Re:I work at a startup with open office plan by tlambert · · Score: 1

    If we need to focus, we are told to put on headphones and the rest of the devs are to respect the headphones.

    This would be a great idea. If you could play "silence" through the headphones, and actually *get* silence. And no, high decibel gauge pressure from noise cancellation that's never 100% effective anyway does *NOT* count as silence.

  12. because it's cheap, and you're expendable by lophophore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I worked for a place that moved to new office space, from cube land, into "modern" open office land.

    The CEO said it was "cool" and "techie" and "everybody in 'the valley' was doing it."

    It sucked wind. I mean, it blew, hard. Cube land was no bargain, the cubes were about 7 by 6 feet, but at least you could pretend you had a bit of privacy to make a phone call, to send an email, to generally have your own space. Open office land was 24 inch deep, 5-foot wide desks with a foot tall divider between you and the next person. You could swivel your head and see heads in all directions, and hear and see what everybody was doing, and it was loud. You could not roll your chair back too fast for fear of clobbering the person behind you. It sucked. (Did I mention that it sucked?)

    It was no place to concentrate -- it was quite focus-proof.

    The open office was not chosen for the "cool" factor, it was chosen for the "cheap" factor, because it could better than double the employee per square foot density. This was a growing, profitable, privately held company, and there was no need for it, except to make the owner's take better.

    Open office can work in places where it is not done for the wrong reasons. Give people some personal space, install acoustic treatments and dividers, and it can work. Treat people like sardines, and those that can swim away, will.

    --
    there are 3 kinds of people:
    * those who can count
    * those who can't
    1. Re:because it's cheap, and you're expendable by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      You have to try to separate work teams or at least divisions somehow. There also needs to be done sort of divider when you have a lot of people even its just a bookshelf. The acoustics are never going to be perfect you have to get used to it. Some places put background music (at a low level) to cut down on some of the noise but its a tradeoff.

    2. Re:because it's cheap, and you're expendable by radtea · · Score: 1

      Companies that do this clearly don't care about productivity, because cost is only one part of the equation. No one who understands anything about business ever does anything because it costs less. They do things because the output per dollar spent is higher. If they are focused on cost, or do something imbecilic like think of their business in terms of "costs centres" and "profit centres" (hint: if it's necessary for your business it's a profit centre, since you can't generate a profit without it... if it isn't necessary for your business you shouldn't be doing it) they they aren't any good at running a business.

      There can be reasons for putting people into one big room, and high-walled cubicals can be arranged to produce barely-sufficient privacy to get decent productivity at significantly lower cost, but none of these depend on cost. They depend on output per dollar.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    3. Re:because it's cheap, and you're expendable by hattig · · Score: 1

      You got a divider! Lucky sod.

      Open plan offices suck, but they're here to stay because to work in a decent area, you have to pay more for the offices, and for many companies that is an undesirable situation. Most people can cope with background noise and hubbub, or use headphones to become totally unapproachable, you get distracted by the hot QA girl that walks by every so often which is a nice perk, etc.

      It's a shame that most places don't use curved desks, so that the person behind you isn't directly behind you. Also the new thing seems to be about removing cabinets from desks, or moving to lockers. That's saving like fifty dollars, on a potentially $100k member of headcount.

      They do work for overhearing things in your team that you can contribute to. But that would still work in a Team Lab space type office layout, with six to twelve people in a large room.

      The days of individual offices, 10ft by 10ft or more, are over for most employees. At best you can hope for a 6ft by 8ft area. And that works partially because monitors are thin; you need 1/10th the paperwork and books and manuals you needed even ten years ago, never mind 20; no one ever prints so 2 printers can service an entire floor; and people are generally used to timewasting .... sorry, internet time, that they don't care if you do it as you would have done it in your cube.

    4. Re:because it's cheap, and you're expendable by Agripa · · Score: 1

      The acoustics are never going to be perfect you have to get used to it.

      It is not a matter of perfect. It is a matter of having way too many noisy distractions; you might as well have a loud phone ringing at random times on the desk beside you when you are not hearing one side of a conversation.

      If focus is required then the only way to get used to it is to become less productive or leave.

  13. Re: When did Slashdot become a satire site? by GrantRobertson · · Score: 1

    When was it ever not? This article just moved it up one notch from first post to the zeroth post.

  14. Re: But.... but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And that means there will be even fewer women in tech. And that means we will be seeing even more of these clickbait shit articles on this stupid site.

    It's almost time to set up a filter to hide any posts with "girl", " woman", "women", " sexism", "sexist", " discrimination ", or " discriminate" in the title. Or to automatically first post in them about how men and women are actually different and that's the largest cause of the lack of women in STEM, not sexism or discrimination.

    Wish that was possible. But until then, I guess a filter will have to do.

  15. Not quite by Mr+Z · · Score: 2

    FTFA:

    Any complaints can be submitted to the provided box in the kitchen to be used in our weekly Negate the Negativity Bonfire.

  16. Tables cost less than cubicles by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
    and cubicles cost less than walls.

    .
    If you want to follow the trend, find a way to put people in an office that costs less than tables.

    .
    Maybe cushions on the floor?

    1. Re:Tables cost less than cubicles by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Its called telecommuting.

    2. Re:Tables cost less than cubicles by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      Ahhh... good point. My friend telecommutes. As of a year ago, his company stopped paying for his Internet service, saying that everyone has Internet service now. So the company effectively has an employee with no, zero, none, zilch office costs.

    3. Re:Tables cost less than cubicles by astro · · Score: 1

      At the last dot-com I worked at, where I was a dev lead, we had an open plan office which some people liked but rather annoyed me. My annoyance was mitigated by an abundance of more private spaces that anyone was welcome to pick up their laptop and occupy when desired.

      Anyway, my reason for replying is that this business was moving toward saving furniture money - but not on tables - on chairs. There was a trend toward standing desks. I understand that for a tiny minority of people this may be easier on their backs, but I do. not. want. standing desk. I want a good expensive ergonomic chair.

    4. Re:Tables cost less than cubicles by PPH · · Score: 1

      Be careful what you wish for.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  17. Depends on whether work is boring or interesting.. by CraigCruden · · Score: 1

    I have had both an open concept office and I have also been in the situation where I have had an private office (as a developer/ team leader). If I am engaged in the work and I enjoy going into work and getting stuff done.... I prefer a more open environment (4 or 6 people on the same team). I found that when I had an office I found myself becoming more isolated and interacted with other developers less. Yes, I don't get interrupted as much -- but then people that I am managing get stuck more often and I don't notice... my productivity goes up and the team goes down....

    If I am not engaged -- bored and not fully loaded with work.... then an office is better of course because you don't want others seeing you play mine-sweep or browsing the internet for other jobs....

    Currently I just work at home, but if I had the option (I am 12 time zones away from work) I would actually prefer being in an office (open).... but the commute would be a killer :p I do find I have to call up people every few months to figure out what is going on.... and even then it is annoying being so far out of the loop. (if I am in work -- I know almost everything -- for some reason I have the innate ability to convince people I already know what I don't know and they tell me anyway).

  18. ha, these guys are total beginners! by thebeastofbaystreet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Those of us unlucky enough to find ourselves working for Canadian banks in tech don't even have desks of our own. I, for example, work in a hot-desking dungeon where I have to book a desk by the day and carry my meagre belongings around in an old shoe-box. I had a manager for a while who even made us move desks during the day, because that was agile! I long for an office environment only as unpleasant as an open plan one, I really do.

    --
    my blog of work misery - http://beastofbaystreet.com
  19. Re:So doing it like Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Um just because you don't want to be "social" at work, doesn't mean you arent social. And the fact that you equate "social media" with being social shows what a driveling nitwit you are.

  20. No assigned seats by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    I know the article is a joke, but I've heard of open office designs that have X employees and (X-0.1*X) desks. Desks are not assigned, and early birds get the worms. They are miserable places.

    1. Re:No assigned seats by thebeastofbaystreet · · Score: 2

      We - large Canadian bank - have X-30%, and I think that's fairly normal. We also have an on-line booking system for desks that is only accessible from the office - which forces people to come into work every day and, effectively, sign-in. If there's no desk then you can either camp out in a meeting room, go find a nearby cafe with free wifi or go home again. It's a total nightmare.

      --
      my blog of work misery - http://beastofbaystreet.com
    2. Re:No assigned seats by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      and this is their IT department? So, when your getting computers ready for deployment, you what..."book" several desks? Although at that kind of place I wouldn't be suprised if your company didn't actually provide any PCs, and make employees got buy their own laptops

  21. Re:I work at a startup with open office plan by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    And then there's the 30 year old infant with the laser pointer who gets bored and points it at your eye.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  22. Re:WTF by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    No, we're discussing improving productivity.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  23. The ultimate open office by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    No roof, no walls, no floor. Take your chalkboard and jumbo chalk, go sit in the middle of a cow pasture.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    1. Re:The ultimate open office by KGIII · · Score: 1

      We could strap wireless access points to the cows and have steak every day. I will come out of retirement for that. Can we go in the barn if it is raining?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:The ultimate open office by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      if I could go hunt for shrooms on my break, and could get high speed net access and power...sure thing!

  24. Re:I work at a startup with open office plan by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

    Your bosses aren't managing and keeping discipline properly. That work scheme is not going to work.

  25. No problem, just get rid of floors by syntheticmemory · · Score: 1

    Give everyone their own sandbox.

  26. Re:If you're more interested in conformity by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

    You could go the other way: this removes absolutely all doubt that X is an idiot. If you can be seen goofing off and surfing the internet all day, and still get more work done than X, he's clearly a tool.

  27. Trying to work in an open office by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    Trying to work in an open office is like trying to write music in a bus station.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  28. You can do Open right by radish · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I certainly get the appeal of everyone having a nice office, but in a lot of cities that's simply not going to happen - the space is just far too expensive. So you end up with the choice between a more compact layout, firing a bunch of people, or moving to the burbs.

    I work at a tech company in Manhattan, we have open plan offices because there's really no other option here. But there are things we do which I think help alleviate some of the common complaints I hear:

    • Everyone gets an assigned desk, and it's a nice sit/stand which you can put whatever you want on (no stupid "tidyness" rules). Some people have fish tanks, huge monitor collections, libraries, whatever. The "no assigned desk" insanity is, well, insane.
    • No offices, period. What's good for the developers is good for the CEO. He's often seen hanging out on the engineering floors.
    • Lots of phone booths and meeting rooms if you need privacy.
    • Lots of alternative working areas - there's couches everywhere if you want to chill out, a bar area, outside space. There's going to be a dedicated quiet area for people who like silence.
    • Totally flexible hours/working schedules - if you're distracted and just want to head out for an hour to clear your head no one's gonna care. If you work better on a table in the park - go for it.
    • No desk phones - encourages people to go away from the work area to make phone calls, which keeps noise and distractions down.

    I think there are advantages to the open layout over an all office setup - I do like being able to hear what people are talking about because many, many times I've been able to get involved in something I can help with, or learn about something useful. Overall I'm pretty sure if offered the alternative (moving out of the city) pretty much everyone there would vote to stick with what we have.

    --

    ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    1. Re:You can do Open right by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      Sounds similar to us. We're not totally open, we're broken up into rooms of about 6-10 engineers each. This is pretty much ideal for the way I work. I can talk with (and overhear) people working on the same projects I am, but I'm not bothered by lots of extraneous stuff. The rest of the office -- phone booths, conference rooms, alternative spaces, flexible hours -- all sound similar. We've always had engineers working remotely, so the concept of working somewhere outside the actual office isn't foreign to anyone. People work from home, or from coffee shops, or from wherever all the time with no advance notice. In the summer I often decide it's just too damn nice a day out so I head home, make a big pitcher of lemonade, and work from my deck overlooking the woods.

      I think that's actually the key. They office layout itself isn't terribly important; the important part is that everyone's treated like grown-ups.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    2. Re:You can do Open right by hattig · · Score: 1

      Yes, given the need to maximise headcount per square foot, open plan offices are here to stay. I agree with your points (I get most of them), they will keep morale higher.

      Hot desking for tech people has to be the singular most stupid idea ever. In fact it is stupid for everyone, I think most people would prefer to have an assigned 'callcentre' style desk than to hotdesk. I have not heard a single good thing about the concept from people forced to endure it. As an aside, I worked on 'smart office' stuff for BT back in 2000, the idea was to personalise hot desks - clever stuff to keep the area personal with shared facilities (a person's photos would travel to the digital picture frame on the hot desk they were logged into, etc). It sucked back then.

      I just wish the flexible working hours aspect was more of a thing here. Early in, early home would be nice for some, late in late home for others.

      And yes, given a choice, I bet people would stick with open plan offices rather than a pay cut (to get a bigger work space) or commuting to some out of town office park full of empty Disaster Recovery offices, no food outlets, no pubs, no nothing.

    3. Re:You can do Open right by Toshito · · Score: 1

      So you end up with the choice between a more compact layout, firing a bunch of people, or moving to the burbs.

      I vote for Moving to the burbs!!! I fucking hate to have to haul my ass in a stinking subway to a big fucking polluted city full of people every day.

      Why do we all have to cram ourselves in office towers when at the same time guys in fucking Bangalore can work on the same systems as us?

      Why not create smaller satellite offices all over the country and go to the nearest?

      --
      Try it! Library of Babel
    4. Re:You can do Open right by radish · · Score: 1

      Sure, that works for some companies. In the specific case that I was describing, the vast majority of employees live in the city (many within walking distance of the office) and I think they'd be unwilling to leave. I personally live in the suburbs and commute in, but I'm the exception. Looking at the companies around where I live, there are very few I'd be interested in working for.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  29. Re:Obviously they should have seen Einstein's desk by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Wow. He had real mail. And I bet they weren't Cabela's catalogs.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  30. Luddite solution by Moof123 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I interviewed at Analog Devices a year back (didn't get an offer, sadly). At this particular design center all design engineers had offices. It was specifically understood that good hard design work required periods of intense focus with no distractions. Their model was to encourage folks to leave their door open when they could, but to encourage folks who really needed to focus to close it, or if discussions/phone calls in your office would distract others to encourage folks to close the door.

    There were still some cubicles, but those were for the secretary, and for setting up test equipment.

    Where I went to is a good company and all, but boy are there days I really wish I could close off the rest of the office din and distraction. I still get more done on weekends during my kids nap time than I can get done in a full work day more of the time.

    Cubes are cheap, but I think the real cost in lost productivity vastly outweighs savings in building materials for those doing the really complex stuff.

    1. Re:Luddite solution by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      The problem is that productivity is much harder to quantify than $/sqft. Most people who want to or succeed in forcing these open floor plans on others prefer to take easy numbers, like that $/sqft, or lines of code/hr, as estimates for what things and people are worth over things like code quality or worker productivity and morale.

  31. Re:Tim McSweeney's Blog Syndicate by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    because nerds are the ones shuffled into these open offices like they are factory workers..

  32. decisions by magarity · · Score: 1

    "We value all of your ideas equally, so all decisions will be made by randomly drawing employees’ proposals out of a hat."

    This one actually has high entertainment value!

  33. Re:So doing it like Europe? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    I know (again from experience) this is the case for the majority of people.

    I don't see how you could know from others' experience. It really depends on the kind of work and the temperament of the individual. These open floor plans crush those individual preferences, and thus productivity, then tries to make up for it by cramming more people into a space. It's communist hell at its finest.

  34. Re:Productivity: The Wrong Criteria by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    How about, within reason, letting individual employees set up their environments in the way that makes them the most productive? Obviously there's some need for social interaction, but forcing its extreme on geeks who are stereotypically not that social and prone to attention deficits, is a recipe for wasteful, unproductive stress. When it comes time to push those buttons, a quiet space is required, and reasonable accommodations should be provided by the employer if the expectation is that employees be productive.

    I think you're actually referring to hipsters, not geeks. They thrive on social interaction because they're inherently insecure types who need constant affirmation of their 'alternative' status.

  35. Re:Number 5 (which should really be number 2) by Streetlight · · Score: 1

    Just what I was thinking. No Johns. Your seat at your open office desk is a toilet. More efficient that way.

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
  36. Peopleware by cowdung · · Score: 1

    Open floor plans have nothing to do with improving innovation or creativity. That's just what they tell people.

    The real reason is the realest of all reasons: cost savings.

    In the 90s software companies offered everyone "their own office". It was a source of pride for them (I've never worked any other way).
    There was also research that supported it. A famous book was Tom DeMarco's "Peopleware" that stated that companies with private offices had programmers that were 5-10x more productive. (This book also started the "rock star" idea that some programmers are 10x more productive.. but people have forgotten that the central conclusion was that PRIVATE OFFICES were a key piece of this equation)

    Then these companies come along in the post-dotCom era and say that productivity will be better with smaller offices. They simply are making things up to make the MBAs happy.

  37. Re:So doing it like Europe? by nyet · · Score: 1

    I have never worked anywhere else but on an open floorplan.

    And yet:

    I know (from experience) I would be less productive in a cubicle or in my own office. I know (again from experience) this is the case for the majority of people.

    From your vast experience not working anywhere else but on an open floorplan, and your vast experience not being anybody else but yourself?

  38. Re: But.... but.... by dargaud · · Score: 1

    There's no lack of women in nudist camps...

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  39. Save office costs by Badger+Nadgers · · Score: 1

    Work outside.

  40. Re:I work at a startup with open office plan by Agripa · · Score: 1

    I tried using noise cancelling headphones while doing engineering in a noisy environment and it was not enough.

  41. It's been done. by Maxmin · · Score: 1

    "Office employees worked naked for a month as social experiment"

    http://www.deccanchronicle.com... ;-)

    --
    O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.