Cinnamon 2.6: a Massive Update Loaded With Performance Improvements

jones_supa writes: The Linux Mint team has just announced that Cinnamon 2.6 desktop environment is considered stable and ready to download. It is a big update. The load times have been greatly improved and unnecessary calculations in the window management part are dropped, leading to a 40% reduction in the number of CPU wakes per second. Other improvements include a screensaver that does more than just lock the screen, panels that can be removed or added individually, a much better System Settings panel that should make things much clearer, a cool new effect for windows, and a brand new plugin manager for Nemo. Linux Mint users will receive the new Cinnamon as an update by the end of the month.

Comments

phillistines...

[juanfgs]

You can change the screensaver?

what's next? being able to change the font size? /s

Re:phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can change the screensaver?

But the screensaver does more than lock the screen. Aren't you impressed.

Re:phillistines...

[Ol Olsoc]

You can change the screensaver?

what's next? being able to change the font size? /s

Metro for Mint.

Re:phillistines...

[kiddygrinder]

to be fair there's no real reason to run a screensaver in this day and age

Re:phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a screensaver... and a floor wax!

Re:phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

P0rn

Re:phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you suggest implementing an idle timeout with lock? Lots of places require these, and it ain't because they're worried about phosphor burn-in.

Re:phillistines...

[Imagix]

Well... screen locker. You want to hide the contents of your screen whilst you are away from your desk.

Re:phillistines...

[Ksevio]

After a time limit, lock the screen and turn off the monitor.

Re:phillistines...

[RabidReindeer]

A lot of "screen lockers" do that job really poorly.

What happens is that when the system gets a wake-up call, the video is turned on FIRST, displaying whatever secrets were on-screen before sleep, and THEN a "lock screen" gets written over it.

I've seen this on more systems and devices than I can count.

Re: phillistines...

[AvitarX]

The notification area of every oled phone I've owned says otherwise.

Re:phillistines...

[I'm New Around Here]

Just as long as it isn't a dessert topping, because that would be going too far.

Re:phillistines...

[I'm New Around Here]

Yeah, well, but how high can rabid reindeers count?

Re:phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. Screensavers are still important for preventing stuck pixels on modern LCDs.

Re:phillistines...

[kiddygrinder]

what? no they're not, a google search points to zero articles even suggesting this is a thing

Re: phillistines...

[kiddygrinder]

you run screensavers on your phone? you have an oled monitor?

Re:phillistines...

[kiddygrinder]

yeah, lock the screen and turn off the monitor, the screensaver is mostly just a waste of power

Re:phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your search skills are shit then, because I instantly found dozens of results saying that you are a fucking idiot.

Do you even understand what a stuck pixel is, junior?

Re: phillistines...

[AvitarX]

I wish the notification area of my phone did. And I thought some tvs were oled.

Though of your point is screen sleep is the better way, you're right.

Re: phillistines...

[Anonymous Coward]

Back to gnome for you...

Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[ArcadeMan]

Does mint even go with cinnamon? It's always chocolate+mint or apple+cinnamon...

Re:Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[Dunbal]

If you've ever had my lamb chops with brown sugar, cinnamon and ginger glaze covered with mint sauce, you'd know they go very well together!

Re:Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've ever had my lamb chops with brown sugar, cinnamon and ginger glaze covered with mint sauce, you'd know they go very well together!

Oh man, I wish you wouldn't do that when I'm hungry.

Re:Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[ArhcAngel]

Mint and Cinnamon usually tour different venues but occasionally they do the same club.

Re:Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[MrBigInThePants]

Speaking as someone from a country that idolises lamb and mint sauce...that sounds more like a desert...

As a non-US person I have noticed that your recipes can contain up to 5x the sugar I would ever think to put in a dish.

I guess this is a desensitisation thing?

The mind really does boggle...

Re:Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[Dunbal]

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

Re:Linux Mint? Cinnamon?

[ArcadeMan]

You wouldn't like him when he's hungry.

Linux Mint gets it right.

[0100010001010011]

I've been a Debian user for a long time but for my wife's laptop or Linux installs on friends machines I almost always turn to Mint.

They're still going to support Upstart & Systemd. The LMDE release was always a rolling release locked to Debian Testing.

They've continued GNOME2 in MATE DE along with the GNOME3 fork Cinnamon.

I've personally transitioned to FreeBSD for my desktop & server needs but if a friend wants to get into Linux with a decent GUI I point them to Mint. Ubuntu has gone full "Windows 8.1" in trying to appease the lowest common denominator when most people just want a desktop they recognize.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

You install Linux on people's computers? You're a cruel bastard; if they don't have the knowledge to install Linux themselves they sure as hell aren't going to have the knowledge to get any useful software working, software that's always developed for Windows and not Linux.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[goose-incarnated]

Ubuntu has gone full "Windows 8.1" in trying to appease the lowest common denominator when most people just want a desktop they recognize.

No, they aren't. I don't know who they are attempting to attract but it's certainly not the lowest common denominator. No-one seems to want the ubuntu interface, nor the gnome3 one for that matter. Not the newbies nor the present computer users.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[cyber-vandal]

Since when did Windows 8.1 appease anyone? Customers have been staying away in droves.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[ArcadeMan]

I've installed Ubuntu on my mother's laptop to replace Windows Vista. Since she never had a computer before Windows Vista, she didn't have any problem with it being "different" from earlier Windows versions. But even so, she's been more happy with Ubuntu than with Windows.

I wish people would stop with the "useful software" argument, it's almost a joke meme at this point. Home users who only need a computer for Internet-based activities don't need ultra-specialized software that's only available on Windows or OS X.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[juanfgs]

I've seen a lot of people happy with Gnome 3. I kinda liked some aspects of it but in the end you realize that you traded more-for-less when using it.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people can't install Windows themselves.

And if they're the type that could install Windows themselves, they can install Linux themselves.

And if they're the type where you're installing Linux on their old laptop, I doubt they are going to ask 'Where's my proprietary business software X?', they most likely will ask 'and which is the button for facebook?'

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

But even so, she's been more happy with Ubuntu than with Windows.

How much does her view have confirmation bias? You are her respected son, you likely have promoted Ubuntu by bringing up positive points about it, and you are providing technical support.

Home users who only need a computer for Internet-based activities don't need ultra-specialized software that's only available on Windows or OS X.

That argument works only if Linux came preinstalled. But most users do not have any reason to replace Windows or OS X that came with their computer. Their current OS does web browsing just fine, and runs more software than Linux. Also Linux is very buggy on desktop.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[0100010001010011]

Linux Mint is easier to install stuff on than any other OS. No downloading a separate package and trying to drag it into /Applications or running the installer, they've had an "AppStore" for years. It's called dpkg.

If they can't figure that out I always have the ability to ssh into the box and fix it that way. If something goes completely wrong and they're stuck at a GRUB2 recovery screen they're just as hosed as they would be if they were dumped to a Windows failure screen.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[ArcadeMan]

How much does her view have confirmation bias? You are her respected son, you likely have promoted Ubuntu by bringing up positive points about it, and you are providing technical support.

I don't even use Linux on the desktop myself, but she was so fed up with Windows that I installed Ubuntu as a temporary solution until she can replace her laptop. The praise comes from her directly.

That argument works only if Linux came preinstalled. But most users do not have any reason to replace Windows or OS X that came with their computer. Their current OS does web browsing just fine, and runs more software than Linux. Also Linux is very buggy on desktop.

Vista was reason enough. Even after installing Firefox and deleting the IE icon from the desktop, you still need to run an anti-virus because it's Windows and it's full of security holes. That was reason #2.

If my mother ever talks about replacing her laptop, I'd ask her to consider an iPad instead.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Lumpy]

You are 100% correct. Although I went a step further. Relatives I have moved away from Linux to Chromebooks and ChomeBoxes. That way I have ZERO maintenance for the devices. I dont even have to do any updates at all. It's wonderful and my family members are all so happy they dont have to do any stupid windows tricks.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Rob Y.]

I use the Mint KDE edition, and have never tried Cinnamon. But it's still worth asking why Cinnamon was needed. I get that nobody liked Gnome 3 (at least at the beginning), but how different - when you get down to it - is the Cinnamon desktop from the KDE desktop? Aren't they both continuations of the standard 'task bar + start menu' paradigm?

Mint KDE is really nice, and since KDE is still being actively developed, why would the Mint folks feel the need to develop yet another desktop? If it's only 'because they can' or 'we need our own DE in order to stand out', then why would users go along with it - just because it serves the Mint folks' purposes. To me, it'd be better to adopt KDE and, if necessary, tweak it to suit their purposes (e.g., simplify some of the settings - or improve the default theme). I get that KDE had its own problems early in the 4.0 series - and that a big portion of the Linux desktop world went with GNOME due to former KDE licensing issues. But all of that predated the birth of Mint. To me, the only reason to go GNOME was because it was the path of least resistance for a Ubuntu remix. But now that they're ditching the 'standard' Ubuntu Unity desktop, why build their own?

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even after installing Firefox and deleting the IE icon from the desktop, you still need to run an anti-virus because it's Windows and it's full of security holes.

Windows hardly is full of security holes anymore. Just don't install shady software and you're fine. Microsoft takes security quite seriously these days.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people don't have to, their PC comes with Windows installed. By switching them to Linux you are making their lives harder.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

This.

I installed Xubuntu on my mum's old Dell that had been running XP. My Dad was concerned about the lack of security updates so I gave them something light weight that would work. Other than a few problems with their printer it has been great. The problems with the printer... it was not turned on once and the other time it was in standby and would not wake up without pressing the button on it.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[wonkey_monkey]

if they don't have the knowledge to install Linux themselves they sure as hell aren't going to have the knowledge to get any useful software working,

Connecting to a wireless network takes a few clicks and typing in the password, just as it does on Windows. Firefox is installed by default. It's not hard to find the icon and click on it. That's the job done for 95% of "installing Linux for a friend or relative" scenarios.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Rob Riggs]

I bought my wife a Google Nexus 10 tablet. She is super happy running Linux.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

KDE 5.0 is pulling a 4.0_ at least on the latest kubuntu. Full of bugs, including crashing the plasma shell that only a terminal login can save (by deleting the cache). Not sure if it's KDE or Kubuntu who fucked up, but someone did, big time.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[cyber-vandal]

That's assuming the WiFi drivers aren't broken.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[walterbyrd]

Cite your source on that?

From everything I have seen, Windows gets infected about ten minutes after you connect to the internet, even if you have AV software.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[dpidcoe]

That's assuming the WiFi drivers aren't broken.

And that you don't screw something else up in the several hour project that getting the wifi drivers working usually turns into.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[petes_PoV]

Home users who only need a computer for Internet-based activities don't need ultra-specialized software that's only available on Windows

People still need to connect their printers, cameras, webcams and other bric-a-brac to their computers. If you think either that Linux / Ubuntu supports more than a small fraction of these (and an even smaller fraction of contemporary devices) -- or that people are willing to dump whatever they already own and run out to buy a special device merely for the pleasure of running it with "free" software (think of the cost saving!), you're deluded.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's assuming the WiFi drivers aren't broken.

And that you don't screw something else up in the several hour project that getting the wifi drivers working usually turns into.

This post brought to you by the year 2004!

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[ArcadeMan]

The latest Windows versions don't support hardware they used to support in earlier versions, so Windows isn't any better.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

From everything I have seen, Windows gets infected about ten minutes after you connect to the internet, even if you have AV software.

Complete rubbish. Last time there were such vulnerabilities in early Windows XP era. Today you have to try hard to get infected and deliberately install some trash software. For example: "Would you like FunnyDog.exe from unknown publisher to make changes to your computer?"

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Barsteward]

oh jeez,.. someone is still peddling this nonsense. here's an old answer to that old argument. if you upgrade windows, a lot of the time you have change your printer etc because the supplier won't update the drivers, its not a good money making policy to update the drivers. i've not had any problems with HP or Samsung printers on linux

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have installed Lubuntu on about 4 desktops and 6 laptops for friends and family. Not once did I have any driver issues.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Barsteward]

KDE5.0 is like KDE4.0 as its still in development. KDE didn;t fuck up 4.0, the distros did by making a development release available and the twat posters who blamed KDE for that were too dim to comprehend.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you talking about Windows? . . . or even Mac OS X? I've spent way too much time fighting drivers in Windows *and* Mac OS X!

Linux just *works* these days. No added bloatware. No messing around with silly serial numbers and "piracy prevention" limits.

Apparently the last time you installed Linux must have been back in the 1990s when you had to select the right boot kernel disk from a stack of 30 floppies and then recompile your kernel.

Get with the times.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still pretty good. All drivers from Vista (2006) and newer are supported in Windows 10.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[jones_supa]

I also had a surprisingly good experience with a HP 3070A multifunction printer under Ubuntu. All I had to do was to enter the IP address of the printer. No other installations or configurations were needed. Wireless printing and scanning both worked without problems.

However, as a small deficiency, wireless scanning could be started only from the computer but not from the printer. The printer menu shows a list of computer hostnames, but Linux machines do not show up there. There might be a way to get it working though. The Linux machine should somehow advertise itself to the printer?

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or just run Ubuntu. I've switched our entire household to it and it supports everything including wifi, usb disks, cameras, Epson laser printer, Netflix (via Chrome), Steam and Java-less net-banking.

All that without changing even one configuration-line! You DO need to configure wireless during install though, or you'll need to set it up yourself afterwards (auto-detect only seems to work during install).

The funny thing is that Windows stops supporting older hardware, and even the hardware "built for Vista" become unsupported! Ubuntu / Linux is now the way to go.

The year of Linux desktop is 2015!
I've tried Linux Mint Debian as well, but the upgrade kept hosing the OS. Linux Mint is based directly on Ubuntu, so may fare just as good as Ubuntu.

JIMHO:
I was sceptical at first, but I even prefer Unity now as a more clean and simpler user-interface. There's still some tiny bugs / issues like context-menu got stuck 1 time. But these are so few and far between, and does not stop my working workflow.
Ie. I now prefer two screens with two taskbars, and having taskbar on the side to save precious vertical screen-estate. The design choices just makes sense from a usability perspective. Although I'm not 100% used to having minimize and maximize on the top left corner, it does prevent accidental clicks.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wifi drivers aren't broken.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[petes_PoV]

a lot of the time you have change your printer etc because the supplier won't update the drivers

Total nonsense. Unless you're still running 10 y/o kit, almost every device that's sold NOW is supported on Windows. That can't be said for more than a small sample of printers, webcams or anything else under Linux.

The reason I have a W8.1 box sitting next to my LMDE x64 machine is to support all my hardware. In fact, I find that I'm using Windows more and more these days ...

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Arguing on and on over shit that don't matter. On the internet. Never seen that before. Loser.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you fire up the Windows box when you're ready to argue pointless shit on the internet, asshat?

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[rHBa]

They also haven't had to take the laptop back to the shop in weeks to get the malware cleaned out again and they haven't lost about an hour of every week waiting for windows to reboot after installing updates.

Of the dozens of friends computers I've fixed over the years, 99% of them have only really cared about a web browser, Skype, a basic office suit "where they haven't moved all the stuff I always use", a media player, a torrent client and maybe an email client.

All of them, save Skype, come pre-installed on any mainstream Linux distro. Skype takes about 5 minutes to install through the Mint software manager so I usually show the end user as I install it. The usual response is "...so I don't have to download it then? That's much easier...".

I had to re-install Windows 8 for my brother the other day, it took nearly 2 days by the time I'd installed drivers and Windows had finished installing updates and patches. Directly after install I had to find drivers for WiFi, the onboard video card and bluetooth, none of them worked (video was stuck at 1024x768 or similar). The manufacturer website couldn't tell me exactly what hardware was in the box so I had to Google the Windows equivalent of lspci, I didn't fancy installing some third party tool from a random website I'd never heard of so instead I booted off a Linux live disk to find out.

The same process on Linux (if I install a 3 year old LTS release from scratch and then install all available updates) takes about 2-3hrs depending on the speed of the computer and/or internet connection. Most of the time hardware works out of the box (it certainly did on the above mentioned box), if drivers or tweaking is required to get stuff working, the time spent is certainly less than the AGE that Windows takes to update.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[iceaxe]

On the other hand, I can only use my old but still perfectly functional scanner on my Linux system because you can't get a 64 bit windows driver for it.

YMMV, as with most things in life.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[bigfinger76]

Total nonsense. Unless you're still running 10 y/o kit, almost every device that's sold NOW is supported on Windows. That can't be said for more than a small sample of printers, webcams or anything else under Linux.

That is a vast overstatement, and if you were experienced with Linux to a level beyond OP's mom, you'd know that. I've been using Linux for over 10 years now, and while things have gotten much better over time, I've had issues with exactly 2 devices: a winmodem in the first pc on which I tried Linux (Mandrake), and iPod. Every other device that I have tried has worked.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Gavagai80]

Hard to blame the distros for thinking that version 5.3 would be a stable version of 5.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Utter fucking horseshit. All my mother needs to do is run a web browser. Linux does this just as well as windows, and is to all intents and purposes invulnerable to viruses. End of motherfucking story, you shitsucking fucktard.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Endlisnis]

I've been using Mint at home for a few months. While I like the design better than any other desktop, I have one major problem with it:

If any program freezes, the WHOLE DESKTOP freezes. I get this about once a day where Firefox stops to think for 10 or so seconds. During those 10 seconds, cinnamon refuses to do ANYTHING except draw the mouse cursor.

You can't switch applications, you can't switch desktops, you can't run shell commands to try to kill the misbehaving program.

The only thing you can do is hit Ctrl+Alt+F6, and kill programs from that console. But it's not even obvious what program is causing the trouble, as it's has nothing to do with CPU utilization. It's as if cinnamon only has one thread for rendering the screen and since Firefox is (very slowly) updating the screen, then nothing else can happen in the entire system.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[sjames]

You either have the worst luck ever or you look really hard to find Windows only hardware. I have had no problems at all with interfacing hardware with Linux.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[david_thornley]

There is useful software available on Linux (and, in specific, Mint). Not all useful software runs on Linux. In order to know whether Linux is a good fit for someone, you have to know what that person wants his or her computer to do.

With a user-friendly distribution, a naive user can use email and surf the net and do word processing and play some simple games, and there's a lot of people that don't use their computers for anything more. In addition, there's repositories available for reasonably safe use, and they may have software the user likes.

Linux is well suited for a very light user, or a user who knows very well what he or she is doing. There's a big gap in between there, where Windows is the clear answer.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[nashv]

Dude, people who know enough about what software they are using and for what specialized purpose are not the ones making 'this OS is better than that' arguments. These arguments usually come from fanboys on both sides.

For me, each OS (even Windows) has its strengths and weaknesses. Windows for games and Linux for work (scientific data analysis). Come to think of it, its MacOS that doesn't really have a niche.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[david_thornley]

C'mon, 8.1 is still the third most-used desktop OS out there, right behind 7 and XP. Something to do with sticking it on all the new computers people buy, 99% of the home users having no idea of changing the OS.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[0100010001010011]

> If any program freezes, the WHOLE DESKTOP freezes

That's what this release specifically addresses.

"In case of a freeze or if you need to restart Cinnamon for any reason, you can now do so via a keyboard shortcut. The default key combination is Ctrl+Alt+Escape. Pressing this combination of keys restarts nemo and cinnamon-settings-daemon in case they had crashed, and launches a brand new instance of the Cinnamon desktop," said Clement Lefebvre, the leader of the Linux Mint project.

They also claim boosts in speed:

Also, the devs have explained that it's no longer necessary to recompile Cinnamon to choose between consolekit and logind support, the load times have been greatly improved, the CPU usage has been diminished by about 40%, and the support for multiple monitors has been improved as well.

"Un-necessary calculations in the window management part of Cinnamon could also be dropped, leading to reduced idle CPU usage (about 40% reduction in the number of CPU wakes per second)," Lefebvre also noted.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Canonical goes fully to Windows 8 (not even 8.1), while same time Microsoft is running away from 8.1 towards 10.0 to escape the catastrophe.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Endlisnis]

That sounds great, except does that cause all other applications to restart? Currently, if I can't guess which application is causing Cinnamon to freeze, I restart Cinnamon, but that forces all of my applications to abruptly restart.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[wonkey_monkey]

Yes, it is. It's been a fairly safe assumption with Linux Mint in my experience. I've had more issues with wireless drivers on Windows 7 (issues such as "not having any drivers") than I have with Linux Mint.

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[Rob Y.]

Well, okay. But I wasn't asking about KDE 5. No comments on KDE 4 in Mint today vs Cinnamon?

I do kind of hate how KDE has to break everything and start over for each new QT version. When is good enough enough? KDE 4 works really well. I'm sure QT 5 has some nice goodies in it - but why the hell do they have to break stuff to add those goodies? Seriously. I still suspect it has something to do with C++. You want to add a new feature that doesn't fit your current class structure? Simple, rework all your classes to now finally be right. Except it's never right for long (enough). With C you may not have as much structure - and it may not port as nicely to other platforms, but adding new functionality almost never requires you to rethink everything...

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Rob Y.]

I had some trouble with an HP laserjet printer that was set up to present itself as a USB drive. Apparently, HP thought it made sense to have the printer be a 'disk drive' with an autorun driver installer on it. Nice, I guess, if you're hooking it to a Windows machine, but I had to figure out how to disable that nonsense to get it to show up as a printer to Linux. Once that was done, Linux found a driver for it, and it works perfectly.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[0100010001010011]

I just tore apart my home lab and I'm reassembling it, reshuffling some motherboards and hard drives.

Tried tossing my Windows drive on a new motherboard. It just crashed.

I found *one* disk from my PC-BSD desktop. Plugged it into the oldest motherboard I could find and it just worked(tm). Missing half of the zfs mirror on completely different hardware.

Between ports, pkg and their installer program software is easier than elsewhere.

I honestly wished that Windows 10 would be them scrapping everything and going with a *BSD. (Just like OS X). Admit defeat, and start over with a different code base. No one knows or cares how it works, just that it does. Apple has managed to move complete platforms 4 times (68k -> PPC, OS 9 -> OS X, PPC->Intel, Intel->ARM). Microsoft has just released C# as open source. It shouldn't be hard.

Then everyone who knows and wants a command prompt will have a real one instead of a half assed Power Shell (or as it is everywhere else Batch file).

Nvidia releases hardware drivers for it. PS4 is based on it (Meaning AMD has drivers for it).

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the description is accurate then it stops the freezing you are seeing from happening at all, so there is no program to restart.

This does sound like the window manager freezing. It is hard to imagine any other type of bug that would cause all the apps to stop but still allow the mouse cursor and the popup from F6 to work. The programs like firefox are not frozen, what is happening is that all their commands to draw things into their windows are getting lost somewhere before the window images are put on the screen.

I've had it freeze so that the cursor still moves but nothing else works, including any keyboard shortcuts or even the numlock toggling the led on/off, and disabling the ctrl+alt+backspace (and I assume the ctrl+alt+F6 mentioned above). Have to restart using the power button. Pretty bad bug, just rare enough to not make me give up on it.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 funny
-5 tired meme

besides, it doesn't take ten minutes to find virusesandringtones.com.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[tehcyder]

I've installed Ubuntu on my mother's laptop to replace Windows Vista. Since she never had a computer before Windows Vista, she didn't have any problem with it being "different" from earlier Windows versions. But even so, she's been more happy with Ubuntu than with Windows.

I wish people would stop with the "useful software" argument, it's almost a joke meme at this point. Home users who only need a computer for Internet-based activities don't need ultra-specialized software that's only available on Windows or OS X.

By "useful software" people generally mean Office, Photoshop or some sort of accounting/customer contact package, none of which are necessary for the average home user.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[tehcyder]

Cite your source on that?

From everything I have seen, Windows gets infected about ten minutes after you connect to the internet, even if you have AV software.

I am not a great Windows fan, but that hasn't been true for over ten years.

It now takes at least an hour.

*rimshot*

Re: Linux Mint gets it right.

[tehcyder]

That's assuming the WiFi drivers aren't broken.

And that you don't screw something else up in the several hour project that getting the wifi drivers working usually turns into.

This post brought to you by the year 2004!

He forgot to mention that he can't get sound to work.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[dl_sledding]

Also Linux is very buggy on desktop.

Citation?

I have used Mint on my laptop since 11 or 12 (I can't remember which). I run (typically) weeks on end before rebooting. What kind of "buggy" are you talking about, because it's much more stable than either my Windows laptop (reboot at least every day) or my Macbook Pro (which, admittedly, is aging.)

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[dl_sledding]

I think you're the one who's deluded. Have you even tried a newer version of any of the distros?

I have been running Mint since either 11 or 12 (now on 17), and I have never seen a printer it won't just connect and print to.

Installation is easily 1/4 the time of a Windows installation. And things just work. I don't know where you are getting your opinion, honestly and seriously.

Re:Linux Mint gets it right.

[shutdown -p now]

I honestly wished that Windows 10 would be them scrapping everything and going with a *BSD. (Just like OS X). Admit defeat, and start over with a different code base. No one knows or cares how it works, just that it does. Apple has managed to move complete platforms 4 times (68k -> PPC, OS 9 -> OS X, PPC->Intel, Intel->ARM). Microsoft has just released C# as open source. It shouldn't be hard.

Apple has very little presence in the enterprise precisely because they do those major tectonic shifts where everything breaks so often. OTOH, on Windows, you still have a pretty good chance of running an app originally compiled for Windows 1.0.

Now is the time!

[Anonymous Coward]

2015: The Year of the Linux Desktop!

Re:Now is the time!

[ArcadeMan]

Since in the last few years the desktop has been replaced by laptops, pads and phones. Only nerds, gamers and power users still have "desktop" computers now. And we're the minority.

Re:Now is the time!

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, and all the business users out there with their Excel, etc. Data entry on anything but a desktop is horrendous.

Re:Now is the time!

[Cro Magnon]

Right, and all the business users out there with their Excel, etc.
Data entry on anything but a desktop is horrendous.

A laptop is fine for word processing and spreadsheets. But tablets & phones aren't even close, even for light usage there.

Re:Now is the time!

[Anonymous Coward]

> Only nerds, gamers and power users still have "desktop" computers now. And we're the minority.

That's the plan, man! We're strategically reducing desktop installation, and before you know it, it's the Year of the Linux desktop!!
World-Domination, bro. It takes time... ;-)

Re:Now is the time!

[Daniel Hoffmann]

My company is in IT and it has a policy to only use laptops, if that is the case for IT companies imagine for other kind of companies. The justification is that it is easier to drag them around to clients and meetings. Many software shops also go full laptop for the same reason.

MOD parent up!

[walterbyrd]

Great post.

Re:MOD parent up!

[juanfgs]

don't tell me what to do.

Re:MOD parent up!

[Anonymous Coward]

how about what not to do?

Here is an actual review

[walterbyrd]

All the juvenile bullshit posts on slashdot are getting tiresome.

LMDE2 with Cinnamon 2.6 gets it right. No mandatory systemd, far superior interface to Gnome3.

Taking a look at Cinnamon 2.6 LMDE 2 "betsy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAyXswmVZG0

Re:Here is an actual review

[drinkypoo]

All the juvenile bullshit posts on slashdot are getting tiresome.

So stop posting. We won't miss you.

Re:Here is an actual review

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why are you still here? Slashdot has been 95% idiots for a couple of years now.

Re:Here is an actual review

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if I'd call 15 years "a couple."

Re:Here is an actual review

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a thought: why don't you stop with the juvenile bullshit posts instead? We won't miss them, either.

Re:Here is an actual review

[drinkypoo]

Here's a thought: why don't you stop with the juvenile bullshit posts instead? We won't miss them, either.

...said the coward, in anonymous fear that someone might associate their idiocy with their identity. I dub thee Piss in Boots.

Re:Here is an actual review

[Anonymous Coward]

I find this amusing.

The number of people that make claims like yours is more then 5% of the users. Therefore some of the people that make this claim are the same idiots they rail against.

Re:Here is an actual review

[billywayne]

Thanks. Just what I was looking for.

Re:Here is an actual review

[MMC Monster]

Is "no systemd" a feature for LMDE?

I'm asking as it's a desktop distribution and systemd is apparently focused on desktops as well.

Nemo

[Daniel Hoffmann]

Nemo is the best linux file manager I have ever used, it even supports SSH/FTP. The only other file manager that I have used and know to be better is XYPlorer, but it is paid and windows only.

Really, even if you use other display managers you should be using Nemo. What they have done in the gnome fork can only be called butchery to this great piece of software.

Re:Nemo

[juanfgs]

> in the gnome fork

oh today is opposite day I see.

Re:Nemo

[Daniel Hoffmann]

You could say that both Nemo and the other bastard son "Files" from gnome 3 (also known as Gnome Files) are both forks from Nautilus (the file manager from gnome 2).

Re:Nemo

[Chozabu]

It looks similar to KDEs Dolphin - what's better about it?

Re:Nemo

[Windowser]

Ever tried Konqueror (under KDE) ? Support local files, http, ftp, sftp, ssh, smb, etc
https://tr.opensuse.org/Konque...

Re:Nemo

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally agree. Nemo is excellent and is the only file manager I can thing of that has no annoying feature or omission.

Windows Explorer remembers folder settings per folder, which I find infuriating (although you can iron out this problem over time), and since 7 they hid away a bunch of useful features like folder stats and parent folder link, so you need to install Windows addons to get them back. Mac OSX Finder was the most shockingly bad file manager I tried. Maybe I just wasn't using it right, but I made it bearable by installing xtraFinder.

Re:Nemo

[Anonymous Coward]

Dolphin supports those protocols as well, since the kio slaves are available for both.

And Dolphin doesn't think it's a web browser.

Re:Nemo

[drinkypoo]

I built LFS with emerald and compiz and I still built nautilus as the file manager, because it's still the best unless you're on a constrained system.

These days it has flags to manage the desktop (or not) and draw the background (or not) so it plays well with other DEs.

Re:Nemo

[Daniel Hoffmann]

Nemo is a fork of Nautilus (the old one from gnome 2), the current Files (also called Gnome Files) present in gnome 3 is another fork (it sucks compared to nemo). So I am unsure what version exactly are you using, the old one or the one from gnome 3 or yet another fork that I am unaware?

Re:Nemo

[fluffernutter]

I've never found a Linux file manager that didn't support SFTP/FTP/SMB

Re:Nemo

[Daniel Hoffmann]

I have not used Dolphin so I can not comment on that, but I just really like how nemo structures stuff. Nemo also has a 2 panel interface that I really like, it works like midnight commander (also known as MC).

Re:Nemo

[drinkypoo]

So I am unsure what version exactly are you using, the old one or the one from gnome 3 or yet another fork that I am unaware?

Probably the old one, let me check. Hmm, no, looks like the gnome 3 one. Why is nemo better? I have barely used that box since the build.

Re:Nemo

[Daniel Hoffmann]

From:
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/...

All the features Nautilus 3.4 had and which are missing in Nautilus 3.6 (all desktop icons, compact view, etc..)
Open in terminal (this is part of Nemo itself)
Open as root (this is also part of Nemo)
File operations progress information (when you copy/move files you can see the percentage and info about the operation on the window title and so also in your window list)
Proper GTK bookmarks management
Full navigation options (back, forward, up, refresh)
Ability to toggle between the path entry and the path breadcrumb widgets
A lot more configuration options

Short term, it’s also likely to gain the following:
A proper status bar
A layout which is more similar to Caja, where the pathbar/path-entry field is below the main toolbar and only spans accross the view pane
Configurable toolbar buttons for hidden features (view-selection, zoom levelsetc).

It is quite an old post and some of may not be true anymore, but basically gnome3 dumbed down the file manager (like windows did with removing the up navigation button). They do not mention it but I also like the dual-pane mode (aka midnight commander mode)

Re: Nemo

[Anonymous Coward]

Less mercury.

Re:Nemo

[Gavagai80]

Well... used to. Plasma 5 went ahead and broke FTP file browsing and seems to have made sftp file browsing much more error-prone.

Re:Nemo

[Anonymous Coward]

Then try the Dolphin. It is best file manager out there next to only Krusader.

If you want full blown filemanager that does everything, Krusader is your choice. If you want very powerful but as well slim looking, Dolphin is the one.

http://i.imgur.com/jr9lAL0.png

Seriously Nice Desktop UI

[WheezyJoe]

The youtube link was not so much a review as a quick runthrough of the new Cinnamon's look, feel and features.
And it's looks really, really good, like it strikes that weird balance between giving you all the control and features you want (that commercial desktops and some gnome-based desktops lack) without over-complicating the interface with a rabbit-hole of settings and interfaces (my biggest gripe with other linux desktops, esp. KDE).

Kudos to the Mint team for going the extra mile on this. It's not easy to get a desktop right, and everyone else it seems has given up on account of the mobile craze (looking at YOU, Microsoft). I think Mint just set the gold standard for a DE. and it's free.

Re:Seriously Nice Desktop UI

[bzipitidoo]

That's great. A stable, intuitive, responsive desktop is sorely needed. Linux desktop environments lack polish. Always missing features, configuration settings are confusing, and the file manager is too easy to crash. Why for instance is it such a pain to set colors in LXDE? Themes are icons and colors together, makes it difficult to have one without the other. In Openbox, I don't want the scroll wheel to flip between desktops, or "shade" and "unshade" windows if on the titlebar, and that's the first thing I turn off in that environment. Have to find and edit a text file to do that too. Too many times I'm scrolling a window and the mouse wanders off the page, and then suddenly I'm spinning through desktops or shading several open windows the next time I scroll.

As to responsiveness, where's Wayland?

Mint issues

[Sir_Eptishous]

I've been using Mint for about six months now and I think it is the best Linux desktop I've tried.
Forgive me now as I tell you I have no idea whether I'm using Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon or Raspberry Pie.
It is the gui that came with the default install, and I like it.

However, recently I've seen problems popping up, two specifically:
1. When using Google Maps in Chromium it usually brings my system to a complete halt. This is a recent problem, so I'm assuming some update is the cause, either with Chromium or Mint. When this lockup happens the only thing I am able to do is switch to a console and reboot.
2. When the Software Update runs in the background it slows things down tremendously. I can either update, or close the updater. If I leave it open without updating the system stays extremely slow. Like the Chromium problem, this just started in the last month or so. Before that everything was. Nothing new has been installed, except for the normal updates of course.

I'm hoping over the course of time another update or some such will correct these problems.

Desktop replaced by laptops, pads and phones?

[nickweller]

@ArcadeMan: "Since in the last few years the desktop has been replaced by laptops, pads and phones. Only nerds, gamers and power users still have "desktop" computers now. And we're the minority."

I disagree. These mobile devices are useful when on the move but next to useless for doing real work. Even the iPhone crowd miss their QWERTY keyboard. I suppose the kids like mobile devices for checking up on their 500 Facebook 'friends'. For the rest of us we do have a real life with relationships with real people.

Re:Desktop replaced by laptops, pads and phones?

[drinkypoo]

disagree. These mobile devices are useful when on the move but next to useless for doing real work.

Most people never do real work on their computing devices, so it is difficult to understand your objection, which seems to be based on a total lack of understanding of how most people use them. The majority of people spend almost literally 100% of their time in the browser, and would be best served by a Chromebook, tablet, or phone, depending on whether they write much and how much screen real estate they need. For watching larger media, there's Chromecast.

I am not actually a big fan of the everything-is-connected-we-know-what-you're-watching Chrome video ecosystem, but for the average person it's probably a very good choice.

Re:Desktop replaced by laptops, pads and phones?

[Electricity Likes Me]

disagree. These mobile devices are useful when on the move but next to useless for doing real work.

Most people never do real work on their computing devices, so it is difficult to understand your objection, which seems to be based on a total lack of understanding of how most people use them. The majority of people spend almost literally 100% of their time in the browser, and would be best served by a Chromebook, tablet, or phone, depending on whether they write much and how much screen real estate they need. For watching larger media, there's Chromecast.

I am not actually a big fan of the everything-is-connected-we-know-what-you're-watching Chrome video ecosystem, but for the average person it's probably a very good choice.

I guess all those computers in offices are just for show? All the people who schedule and calendar with their cellphones are faking it? My friends laptops at home which absolutely have to have Office and a VPN aren't real?

You know where Windows 8 and all the other UI mis-steps of the last few years have come from? This exact, elitist, "I'm an IT Guy" sentiment.

Re:Desktop replaced by laptops, pads and phones?

[drinkypoo]

I guess all those computers in offices are just for show?

I guess you can't read? Those computers belong to the businesses, not the people using them. On their computers, they typically just browse.

All the people who schedule and calendar with their cellphones are faking it?

What exactly does that have to do with what they do with their desktop? ADD much? Stay on topic.

My friends laptops at home which absolutely have to have Office and a VPN aren't real?

"most people". Learn to read.

This exact, elitist, "I'm an IT Guy" sentiment.

I'm an IT guy, you illiterate ignoranus.

Sweet!

[Sir_Eptishous]

Other smaller improvements include a working screensaver that does more than just lock the screen

And I remember seeing something in a forum where Ubuntu devs claimed screensavers were a "windoze" thing that Linux desktop didn't need...
WUT!?!

Re:Sweet!

[Gunstick]

unix screensavers existed even before linux was being known (linux 1991, xscreensaver 1992)
http://www.jwz.org/xscreensave...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...

Linux Mint politics

[kriston]

It's too bad he feels this way:
http://abriefhistory.org/?p=77...

Re:Linux Mint politics

[drinkypoo]

It's too bad he feels this way:

It's too bad he doesn't support genocide? I wonder what you consider "good". Maybe you'll wait for a full-fledged holocaust to condemn Israel.

Re:Linux Mint politics

[CrankyOldEngineer]

It's too bad that Clement mixed his politics with his professional work. But really, are people willing to stop using an excellent product because they don't agree with someone's politics? Do I support my landlord's libertarian politics when I write a rent check? Do I support fracking when I turn on my furnace? Do I support child labor when I buy clothes made almost anywhere in asia? Do I support bigotry when I listen to a MIles Davis recording? The work is too interconnected and complicated.

Re:Linux Mint politics

[Anonymous Coward]

1) This declaration was stupid in my mind.
2) It was in 2009 (six years)
3) I do not even know if this guy is still here.
So whay to exhume this thing?

Re:Linux Mint politics

[TheBilgeRat]

Wow. You don't even need to know anything about the Israeli/Palestinian situation to recognize blatant jingoistic propaganda.

FTA:

Lefebvre sees Israelis as the problem.

“It’s a moral stand point. You see a lot of people all over the globe complain about China, Russia, and take individual actions to dissociate themselves from them. I don’t agree with what Israel is doing and although they’re forced to take action and defend themselves I don’t believe they have their back against the wall without any other possible alternative.”

(author of blog's response): Yes, the Israelis could just lay down and die.

Right, because that is the ONLY alternative to Palestinian "aggression"? I mean, just look at what these self-hating jews think. Crazy, right?

Re:Linux Mint politics

[jdk1]

He strongly apologized in a 2013 interview:

"I think the one thing I regret the most is giving people the impression I cared about politics and getting involved in something that had nothing to do with me."

Re:Linux Mint politics

[tehcyder]

But really, are people willing to stop using an excellent product because they don't agree with someone's politics?

Of course.

Like everything, it depends on the extremity of the politics involved. If I knew a company was run by neo nazis, I absolutely would refuse to use their products.

vs MATE?

[ohnocitizen]

I'm using MATE now and loving it. Are you using Cinnamon and you love it? Why? What makes the switch worth it?

Re:vs MATE?

[Anonymous Coward]

> I'm using MATE

Had weird issues like the user password suddenly not working anymore after a few days uptime. Happened twice.

XFCE, so far, so good.

Cinnamon Is Great!

[BrendaEM]

Cinnamon is clearly the best Linux Desktop.
Thanks for working on it.

Re:Cinnamon Is Great!

[Gunstick]

strt hatari, freeze
vnc into the box, freeze
fullscreen vlc freeze, reboot
use lots of browsers the same time, freeze, crash, logout, reboot

Oh well, works perfectly.

The Nemo fork is alive in Mint

[Anonymous Coward]

The mint guys call it Caja.

Change the screensaver???

[DoofusOfDeath]

You wouldn't steal a car, would you?

Choosing your own screensaver is not a victimless crime.

www.gnomecontrolcenter.gov

So can I switch from KDE?

[fluffernutter]

I've been using the KDE version of Mint because I found Cinnamon to waste a lot of screen space and be very choppy to use by comparison. Is it time to switch?

Re:So can I switch from KDE?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're the kind of person who likes KDE, then KDE is the kind of thing that you like. Me too. Why switch?

Re:So can I switch from KDE?

[fluffernutter]

I kind of view KDE as the window manager that has all the options but it tends to look a little industrial. I'm waiting for a nicer window manager like Cinnamon to have all the options.

Oh thank god

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone running Mint/Cinnamon on a Kabini knows why this is important. Losing fully half of the CPU to the desktop environment is awful.

Crash Loop... ok

[EmagGeek]

Well I just updated to 2.6 and now cinnamon continuously crashes into fallback mode

screensaver...

[waspleg]

I'd settle for one that didn't randomly completely lock up and force me to kill it from an alternate tty... however Mint is pretty decent over all.. typing this from a several months old Rebecca Mint box...

KDE versions, my experience

[spage]

I do kind of hate how KDE has to break everything and start over for each new QT version.

tl;dr: Then don't upgrade. Or trust your distro to do the right thing. There's no one KDEN any more.

KDE tends to group a rethink of their project to a new Qt version, why not? Software evolves. KDE4 introduced plasma, phonon, solid. There is no single "KDE 5". The KDE Frameworks 5 reorganizes the KDE libraries, and the new Plasma 5 desktop changes the theme and graphics stack. http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/... tries to explain what's going on.

I started with Kubuntu 9.04 which ran KDE 4.2, and by 4.4 it was trouble-free. The recent Kubuntu 14.10 -> 15.04 upgrade switched me from KDE4 to Plasma 5.2, I think Kubuntu is the first major distro to jump to Plasma 5. It was a seamless upgrade, everything just worked despite the seismic changes underneath (systemd, Plasma 5, etc.). Plasma 5.2 in Kubuntu is using various libkf5 packages and libqt5core5a according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/viv... , but I believe not all the KDE apps have switched over from KDE4. It's interesting that in the blog post above Jos Poortvliet writes "I'd recommend moving over your work desktop or laptop for [Plasma] 5.4." In my experience Plasma 5.2 and the KDE apps are in good shape, better than the audio and display problems I had with KDE 4.2. I reported a couple of medium-priority KDE bugs that were fixed already so I added the Kubuntu backports PPA to get Plasma 5.3, and it's better still.

YMMV.

Re:KDE versions, my experience

[Rob Y.]

Interesting. But could you address my suspicion that C++ has something to do with how drastic the changes end up being. I would assume that the QT folks at least try to keep things as backward compatible as possible. And that after the KDE4.0 fiasco, they made the transition from 4 to 5 smoother than prior ones. After all, the explanation for how hard the 3 to 4 transition was was that big changes were needed so that future enhancements would be less disruptive.

In any case, you'd think that it would be possible to provide libraries that simply allow KDE4 binaries to be compiled to run on top of KDE5. But my suspicion is that C++ classes suck in so much of the code and structure of the objects in question that it becomes hard to build shim libraries to mediate between the versions at the source code level. Not impossible - but not on anybody's radar to do... Am I wrong?

big heap of crash

[Gunstick]

This dreadfull bastard of slowness and bugs has been dumped by me after I encountered about 1 crash, freeze or reboot per week. (on frssh LMDE install beginning 2015)
It is completely utter sillyness to expect endusers to use a kiddy fiddely software piece of junk.
Switched to Mate (i.e. gnome2) and it was 10 times faster, and has not crashed since 2 months.