Slashdot Mirror
PayPal Will Be Able To Robo-Text/Call Users With No Opt-out Starting July 1
OutOnARock notes that as PayPal separates from eBay in the coming months, new terms of service are set to take effect on July 1st. Most of the changes unexciting, but one provision has consumer rights groups up in arms: PayPal is granting itself the ability to use automated systems to call and text users. These robocalls could happen for something as serious as debt collection or as frivolous as advertisements. What's more, the company grants the same rights to its affiliates. Activists are questioning the legality of these changes. "Given that both the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (which created the Do Not Call list) and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act ban most robocalling and texting, this seemed in direct opposition to consumer protections granted Americans by Congress." PayPal says it will comply with all laws, but their actions may spark a legal debate about whether terms of service can qualify as "written consent."
Of reasons to not use paypal again. On top of them randomly freezing and seizing accounts and continuing to pull money out of your bank accounts for subscriptions you no longer have.
Why?
https://www.nomorobo.com/
It's free and a fantastic service. It uses your phone company's simultaneous ring feature to weed out robo calls.
...corporation expected to do something mean via an abuse of its position.
Law > Terms of Service
Can they robo-call me a few days before a payment is due when they have, once again, shuffled a payment from being from my card to creating a balance on that paypal credit? Because I am getting sick of this shit and am close to terminating my account
Say you sign up with a company when their T&C says they won't use your phone number for marketing, but then they change their T&C to state the opposite. Now they have your phone number. Are they bound by the T&C they stated when you signed up? But even if they are, what is a customer's recourse? If someone were to sue, that would cost a lot of money, which would result in a settlement of probably little value. So what recourse is there for consumers?
...cold calling is when every customer they call demands to be removed from their user base.
Goodbye PayPal.
I am currently in a Mexican standoff with my Shell credit card. There's a new page I have to fill in that includes my phone number, for stated purpose of marketing texting and calling. I want to access my info online but can no longer do so till I put that info in and click the button.
WTF is going on???
Go on, I dare you.
Because when the Data Protection people jump on you for having something opt-out rather than opt-in, even with warning, then you'll realise what they do all day (i.e. fine companies that do this).
Just because the US authorities are toothless in this regard, doesn't mean the rest of the world is.
Go on. Send me a text or robocall that I didn't specifically authorise (and, no, agreeing to the new "forced" terms and conditions isn't the same). The absolute worst scenario? I tell you that I'm opting-out of them all. You EVER phone after that, you're going to end up having to answer to data protection lawsuits and - in my country at least - things like the Telephone Preference Service.
I didn't give you explicit permission to do this, therefore you have no permission to do this. We can argue about the definition of "explicit" in court if you like, but the case law is pretty clear in this regard.
Its da future!
1. Create new gmail account
2. Create Google Voice number and give to PayPal
3.?
4. No profit
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
If agreeing to terms of service is considered giving written consent, then they've found a loophole in the law.
1) I have a Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows phone (yes, I'm the guy).
2) I accepted credit cards with Square, until I got a Windows phone: Square does not offer a Winfone app.
3) Nobody else offered a decent merchant terminal app with fair prices until PayPal Here came to the Windows Store.
Unfortunately, I'm stuck with PayPal for now... whoever calls and/or texts, and whoever advertises on those calls and/or texts, can expect some serious abuse and adverse publicity.
after they bribe the correct lawmakers to have the laws changed.
Sorry PayPal but I am the customer and I don't agree that just because I want to use your service does not mean I want to be hounded by you or your partners.
Didn't PayPal just pay a hefty fine for forcing PayPal credit cards onto customers without even asking if they want one? Think maybe I will rethink using PayPal in the future if this get's to be more then occasionally annoying.
Sure, PayPal, go ahead and call me!
Because on the few occasions when I've found myself with no choice but to use your crappy guest checkout (no, I will never have a "real" account with you), and you insist that I give a phone number...
I enter yours.
So let 'em fly, boys! Feel free to let your "partners" waste the time of some poor secretary at your corporate HQ.
So the asshole company who acts like a bank except where there are regulations they ignore, is going to be the asshole company who gives itself and its asshole affiliates the right to call or spam you because they say so?
I'm sorry, but what the hell are these clowns thinking?
The sheer arrogance of that is mind boggling. And this whole shit of "see, we have terms of service, we can do anything we want" is just crap.
Tell you what, PayPal, our terms of service say we can tar and feather you before the castration and lynching.
Once again, I am reminded of the many reasons why I would never deal with this company. A bunch of shady, self-entitled weasels.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Sexually harass anyone who phone-spams you. Make it so lurid that it would gross Larry Flynt out.
Too many corporations think that they are the most important thing on earth. Anything they do is fine and for the benefit of all mankind. They need to get the word out, as to how great they are, in the form of ads which no doubt you've been waiting anxiously to receive. They need more revenue to pad exec's bonuses. So we get the much appreciated third party paid ads which inform us of deals that we otherwise might not be aware of.. Stop it you jerks. You're not that important to us at all.
My ass is already sore enough.
They don't have my address. I falsified my renewal. I put down 1060 West Addison.
Simple as that. If they want to try that in court, be my guest, but they will loose.
Astonishingly TFS passed up the bigger scare mongering opportunity here: PayPal have granted themselves permission to robo text/call you at any number their research can find reason to link to you even if you've gone to great lengths never to tell them that number or call them from that number.
Did you link a credit card to your PayPal account and did you call your credit card company from a phone to activate that card? Congratulations, PayPal says they can now spam that phone number!
If you have a business relationship with the company they are not bound by the no call list.
I think the theory was that you could choose not to deal with and so choose whop you wanted calls from.
The question is, do you have a reaql choice not to deal with PP, or do they own enough of the market so you have no real alternative.
If it is the later, then PP may be being shortsighted in this.
They appear to be begging for consumer protection and/or monopoly scrutiny.
For now, maybe everybody needs an answer machine only phone number for this situation like you already need a deadeter e-mail account.
after they bribe the correct lawmakers to have the laws changed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2015/05/28/hold-the-phone-fcc-has-a-new-robocall-ruling-and-it-doesnt-look-pretty-for-business/2/ has a consumer-friendly headline, but the actual text says that the FCC intends to bow to business pressure to let them flout the Do Not Call protections and the no-robo calls rules if they use the "oops, my bad" excuse or the "but I was *really* sure they would want to receive this robocall" excuse.
PayPal is counting on this specific change to FCC interpretations of the law to make their new terms legal (oblig: read in best Palpatine voice).
I often think that the only reason the banking laws were ignored for paypal was because they handed all the transaction data to the NSA. So it gave NSA access to a lot of private data around the world, that banks wouldn't give them.
Uber is similar surely? A taxi booking service that isn't a taxi booking service?
Unless PayPal is OK with a class action lawsuit involving millions of customers, they will not be robocalling anyone who opts out. The Do Not Call statutes say that companies with which you have done business in the last 18 months can call you, but they must allow you to opt out of these communications. I think there is a distinction between human and robocalls that might make this even tougher for PayPal to pull off. So this is not worthy of concern.
I'm more concerned about the quality of PayPal's lawyers, that they seem to be totally oblivious to a law that was put in place in 2004.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I've used PayPal for years and suddenly my account can't have funds added until they get my SSN.
Why is this? Why do they need it?
Because they aren't a bank I am pretty sure it's unsafe to give them my SSN. Is that a correct assumption?
Does this have something to do with the companies splitting?
I just use a throwaway phone number.
Either a google voice phone number, or a cheap voip phone, where the number can be changed at a whim.
The last time I used paypal I decided was the last time, period. If a transaction requires paypal in the future, I'll pass on the purchase and tell the seller exactly why. They wouldn't let me delete expired credit cards, they wouldn't let me remove a closed bank account, fuck them. I closed my account entirely after putting in bogus contact information since I'm sure they don't actually delete any account data.
This is just one more reason to hate paypal.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
At some point all of these executives and lawyers are going to overstep one too many times, and one day will find themselves heading to their limo when someone puts a bullet in their neck or a really long knife in their eye socket.
Keep it up elitist assholes, and one day when you think life can't get better you unexpectedly draw your last, non-medically assisted breath and get buried a week later in that sweet Armani suit you love so much.
there is literally no other choice, and even then I "pay as a guest" (deleting cookies to get around their attempt to only let me do so once) and I NEVER give them any bank account numbers or my real phone number. And I use temporary "one time use" credit card number my credit card providers offer, as well as a unique email address each time at a domain that I run my own email service on.
I just closed my Paypal account. I hardly ever used it anyway, so I am sure I can live without it. Surprisingly, they made it pretty easy to close the account.
Proverbs 21:19
Theyre a bank thats not bank but is a bank.
Thats -almost- as shady as being an actual bank.
How?!?! ive been trying for 5 years to get those assholes to close my account.
If terms of service are "written permission" or worse: "legally binding contracts", I need to go change some of mine... time to gouge the corporations back. "If you.. then you owe me...."
I was under the impression that it is not possible to enter a contract which violates the law. If you give your written consent to allow an illegal action to be performed against you, that contract (or at least that portion of it) is not valid.
Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
When Linkedin started making contact suggestions for people I'd only had direct contact through Paypal with, I was through with them.
Just because PayPal decides to tell you that they have the right to murder your baby and eat your dog, doesn't mean they can do it without consequence. PayPal does not have the authority to dismiss federal legislation.
In Canada, at least, we still actually have some semblance of a real justice system that is not for sale to the highest bidder. Robo-calling and spamming are quite explicitly opt-in only in Canada, and they MUST provide a means to opt-out.
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
I actually use PayPal, a lot. I have their debit card, I have their credit card. I'm sure I use the debit card at least a dozen times a month. The first robocall I get, I'm closing out my PayPal account completely. Seriously, PayPal, give your customers an opt-out or be prepared to lose a lot of them. None of my banks robocall me (or, really, call me at all) for any reason, you don't have any excuse.
The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
Phone makers, programmers, and telecom companies need to start providing blocking and white listing capabilities. I want to be able to block numbers from AT&T website, even having the ability to set my service to a block all mode, and have whitelist functionality. These three features should allow me to independently manage for texts and phone calls. At the very least, I shouldn't be responsible for international fees and texting fees for unsolicited and unwanted activity while being able to benefit from the power to control who can and cannot contact me.
Are they taking their customer service lessons from Uber?
I closed my account years ago.
TOS changed, I didn't agree to the change in TOS.
Aka paypal pal and ebay. Already do this. If your number gets on there shitlist for any reason. Even if it's because someone put in a random number for legit reasons. Such as trying out there service before making a comitment to it. They will dial it morning evening, and night.