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PayPal Will Be Able To Robo-Text/Call Users With No Opt-out Starting July 1
OutOnARock notes that as PayPal separates from eBay in the coming months, new terms of service are set to take effect on July 1st. Most of the changes unexciting, but one provision has consumer rights groups up in arms: PayPal is granting itself the ability to use automated systems to call and text users. These robocalls could happen for something as serious as debt collection or as frivolous as advertisements. What's more, the company grants the same rights to its affiliates. Activists are questioning the legality of these changes. "Given that both the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (which created the Do Not Call list) and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act ban most robocalling and texting, this seemed in direct opposition to consumer protections granted Americans by Congress." PayPal says it will comply with all laws, but their actions may spark a legal debate about whether terms of service can qualify as "written consent."
Of reasons to not use paypal again. On top of them randomly freezing and seizing accounts and continuing to pull money out of your bank accounts for subscriptions you no longer have.
Why?
https://www.nomorobo.com/
It's free and a fantastic service. It uses your phone company's simultaneous ring feature to weed out robo calls.
Say you sign up with a company when their T&C says they won't use your phone number for marketing, but then they change their T&C to state the opposite. Now they have your phone number. Are they bound by the T&C they stated when you signed up? But even if they are, what is a customer's recourse? If someone were to sue, that would cost a lot of money, which would result in a settlement of probably little value. So what recourse is there for consumers?
...cold calling is when every customer they call demands to be removed from their user base.
Goodbye PayPal.
Go on, I dare you.
Because when the Data Protection people jump on you for having something opt-out rather than opt-in, even with warning, then you'll realise what they do all day (i.e. fine companies that do this).
Just because the US authorities are toothless in this regard, doesn't mean the rest of the world is.
Go on. Send me a text or robocall that I didn't specifically authorise (and, no, agreeing to the new "forced" terms and conditions isn't the same). The absolute worst scenario? I tell you that I'm opting-out of them all. You EVER phone after that, you're going to end up having to answer to data protection lawsuits and - in my country at least - things like the Telephone Preference Service.
I didn't give you explicit permission to do this, therefore you have no permission to do this. We can argue about the definition of "explicit" in court if you like, but the case law is pretty clear in this regard.
1. Create new gmail account
2. Create Google Voice number and give to PayPal
3.?
4. No profit
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
1) I have a Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows phone (yes, I'm the guy).
2) I accepted credit cards with Square, until I got a Windows phone: Square does not offer a Winfone app.
3) Nobody else offered a decent merchant terminal app with fair prices until PayPal Here came to the Windows Store.
Unfortunately, I'm stuck with PayPal for now... whoever calls and/or texts, and whoever advertises on those calls and/or texts, can expect some serious abuse and adverse publicity.
Sure, PayPal, go ahead and call me!
Because on the few occasions when I've found myself with no choice but to use your crappy guest checkout (no, I will never have a "real" account with you), and you insist that I give a phone number...
I enter yours.
So let 'em fly, boys! Feel free to let your "partners" waste the time of some poor secretary at your corporate HQ.
So the asshole company who acts like a bank except where there are regulations they ignore, is going to be the asshole company who gives itself and its asshole affiliates the right to call or spam you because they say so?
I'm sorry, but what the hell are these clowns thinking?
The sheer arrogance of that is mind boggling. And this whole shit of "see, we have terms of service, we can do anything we want" is just crap.
Tell you what, PayPal, our terms of service say we can tar and feather you before the castration and lynching.
Once again, I am reminded of the many reasons why I would never deal with this company. A bunch of shady, self-entitled weasels.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Sexually harass anyone who phone-spams you. Make it so lurid that it would gross Larry Flynt out.
Too many corporations think that they are the most important thing on earth. Anything they do is fine and for the benefit of all mankind. They need to get the word out, as to how great they are, in the form of ads which no doubt you've been waiting anxiously to receive. They need more revenue to pad exec's bonuses. So we get the much appreciated third party paid ads which inform us of deals that we otherwise might not be aware of.. Stop it you jerks. You're not that important to us at all.
They don't have my address. I falsified my renewal. I put down 1060 West Addison.
867-5309
after they bribe the correct lawmakers to have the laws changed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2015/05/28/hold-the-phone-fcc-has-a-new-robocall-ruling-and-it-doesnt-look-pretty-for-business/2/ has a consumer-friendly headline, but the actual text says that the FCC intends to bow to business pressure to let them flout the Do Not Call protections and the no-robo calls rules if they use the "oops, my bad" excuse or the "but I was *really* sure they would want to receive this robocall" excuse.
PayPal is counting on this specific change to FCC interpretations of the law to make their new terms legal (oblig: read in best Palpatine voice).
Unless PayPal is OK with a class action lawsuit involving millions of customers, they will not be robocalling anyone who opts out. The Do Not Call statutes say that companies with which you have done business in the last 18 months can call you, but they must allow you to opt out of these communications. I think there is a distinction between human and robocalls that might make this even tougher for PayPal to pull off. So this is not worthy of concern.
I'm more concerned about the quality of PayPal's lawyers, that they seem to be totally oblivious to a law that was put in place in 2004.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
If you have a business relationship with the company they are not bound by the no call list. I think the theory was that you could choose not to deal with and so choose whop you wanted calls from.
The question is, do you have a reaql choice not to deal with PP, or do they own enough of the market so you have no real alternative. If it is the later, then PP may be being shortsighted in this. They appear to be begging for consumer protection and/or monopoly scrutiny.
For now, maybe everybody needs an answer machine only phone number for this situation like you already need a deadeter e-mail account.
This is exactly what they mean by "comply with the law". The law is on their side. However, if you tell them that you do not wish them to call you, they are required to stop. The downside is that if you just tell them on the phone, or send them a letter, then "we received no communication indicating he wanted us to stop calling." This is my past experience with debt collectors. I've even had certified letters returned as refused so they could continue harassing me.
In my case, it was not a valid debt: a diagnostic lab had been sent some bloodwork by a doctor without our permission or knowledge and performed tests. Then they sent us a bill. They did not send the bill to our insurance carrier, nor did they provide any spot to put in our insurance information on their bill. You see, if they did that then the insurance company would adjudicate the bill and pay them according to their contracted rate. The Lab wanted more money, so they just billed us directly and despite four or five letters and calls indicating that they need to bill my insurance company, they eventually just sent it to collections. I was finally able to resolve the issue after spending about $1,000 worth of time on the phone with them and my insurance company. I sent them a bill for my standard hourly rate, but they still haven't paid it.
A couple of weeks ago, I got another bill in the mail from another diagnostic lab for some more bloodwork from a doctor's visit in April. They did not bill the insurance company and did not provide any space to enter the insurance company information on the bill. It's not even the same lab. Time for round two.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
The last time I used paypal I decided was the last time, period. If a transaction requires paypal in the future, I'll pass on the purchase and tell the seller exactly why. They wouldn't let me delete expired credit cards, they wouldn't let me remove a closed bank account, fuck them. I closed my account entirely after putting in bogus contact information since I'm sure they don't actually delete any account data.
This is just one more reason to hate paypal.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Doesn't matter, if they get your actual phone number some other way, they also "grant" themselves the right to use that phone number. Which is where the "this is blatantly against the law" really comes in.
there is literally no other choice, and even then I "pay as a guest" (deleting cookies to get around their attempt to only let me do so once) and I NEVER give them any bank account numbers or my real phone number. And I use temporary "one time use" credit card number my credit card providers offer, as well as a unique email address each time at a domain that I run my own email service on.
I just closed my Paypal account. I hardly ever used it anyway, so I am sure I can live without it. Surprisingly, they made it pretty easy to close the account.
Proverbs 21:19
Get some telephone recording equipment, is isn't *that* expensive, and can come in handy for all kinds of things. Turn it on while speaking with them, tell them that the call is being recorded. If they don't want to be recorded, then they will either voice an objection or else hang up. If they hang up, then the problem is solved... if they only voice an objection, you have no obligation to respect that... they have already been advised that you are recording the call, and the onus is upon them to terminate the call if they do not wish to continue to be recorded. If they tolerate being recorded, then you can get proof that you have informed them that you do not want them to call you.;
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Theyre a bank thats not bank but is a bank.
Thats -almost- as shady as being an actual bank.
I was under the impression that it is not possible to enter a contract which violates the law. If you give your written consent to allow an illegal action to be performed against you, that contract (or at least that portion of it) is not valid.
Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
Like I said, I changed as much detail as I could and then I did what they said would "close" my account. I have no idea if it's really closed but I haven't received any spam from them since. I don't provide anyone a valid phone number so that's never been a worry for me.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Just because PayPal decides to tell you that they have the right to murder your baby and eat your dog, doesn't mean they can do it without consequence. PayPal does not have the authority to dismiss federal legislation.
In Canada, at least, we still actually have some semblance of a real justice system that is not for sale to the highest bidder. Robo-calling and spamming are quite explicitly opt-in only in Canada, and they MUST provide a means to opt-out.
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
I actually use PayPal, a lot. I have their debit card, I have their credit card. I'm sure I use the debit card at least a dozen times a month. The first robocall I get, I'm closing out my PayPal account completely. Seriously, PayPal, give your customers an opt-out or be prepared to lose a lot of them. None of my banks robocall me (or, really, call me at all) for any reason, you don't have any excuse.
The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
Are they taking their customer service lessons from Uber?