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Edward Snowden: the World Says No To Surveillance
An anonymous reader writes: Two years after his whistle-blowing, Edward Snowden finds that his action had profound effects on political decision making and on citizen's understanding of privacy issues. He writes in the NY Times, "In a single month, the N.S.A.’s invasive call-tracking program was declared unlawful by the courts and disowned by Congress. After a White House-appointed oversight board investigation found that this program had not stopped a single terrorist attack, even the president who once defended its propriety and criticized its disclosure has now ordered it terminated. This is the power of an informed public. ... We are witnessing the emergence of a post-terror generation, one that rejects a worldview defined by a singular tragedy. For the first time since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, we see the outline of a politics that turns away from reaction and fear in favor of resilience and reason."
I guess the "terrorists attacks" phase is over. Let's start the "aliens attacks" phase.
Signed,
The Illuminati.
I feel like they're sensationalizing what is essentially a game of musical chairs -- the data is still being collected (by law). The spying is still happening.
Mr. Snowden, love him or hate him, actually did a service to the world by pointing out something that, if left ignored, would have rivaled the old East German Stasi in scope and reach (well, if it hasn't already. Hint: It probably has.)
I would say that if anyone deserved the title of 'whistleblower', this man damned sure qualifies.
Now, the next step - what in the hell do we actually do about it aside from individual protection? Sure, recent congressional actions (Thank you, Sen. Paul!) have put an end to at least one program... problem is, another grew to take its place (basically, the FBI is picking up where the NSA is allegedly leaving off).
I suspect this is going to take a lot more work than deleting web cookies and an occasional filibuster...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
This. Ended the program? Bullshit.. We outsourced the program, the same way the government routinely does with anything it wants but can't legally do itself.
That said, I'll still take this over what we had last week. But don't think we won the war yet - Not by a looong shot.
He really seems to live in his own bubble of self-delusion. The majority of Americans: (1) do not know about NSA surveillance, (2) do not care and (3) have no fucking idea who Edward Snowden is. Just this week, the USA Freedom Act reauthorized these programs, and the only politician who seems to care? Rand Paul, the most hated man in the Senate. I'm sorry, but the consequences of Snowden's leaks have been minimal, and, if the world is saying anything about surveillance, it's not no, it's "Yeah, okay. Whatever."
OH SHUT UP, YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
The UK is part of Europe and internet is CENSORED over there. Everything you do online is logged.
In France ENCRYPTION IS ILLEGAL, to the point that there is a special version of Windows there that disables encryption.
Why do Europeans have a tendency of making fools of themselves trying to look superior to the USA? (And no, i'm neither north american nor european)
We outsourced the program,
Right. To the Chinese.
I guess you and your fellow European citizens had better grab your pitchforks and torches because every major European country has an NSA equivalent - UK and Germany are notable examples.
Popisms.com - Connecting pop culture
Goddammit, I commented earlier so I can't mod you funny. Because what European nations do is FAR worse than what the US government does, so your claims that "we would not have tolerated it even for a microsecond" is flat out hilarious.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Edward Snowden knowingly gave the world this information at enormous personal cost. Only if enough of us stand up, stop debating minutiae, and demand that it stop will Mr. Snowden's sacrifice have been worth it.
The spying is still happening.
That's right... Nothing has changed. And Mr. Snowden hasn't been watching the elections recently. Right wing nationalism is all the rage and making a big comeback. Mass media says a lot about surveillance, but at election time the people still don't give a shit.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
"In France ENCRYPTION IS ILLEGAL"
I don't think that this is the case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
"As of 2011 and since 2004, the law for trust in the digital economy (LCEN) mostly liberalized the use of cryptography.
As long as cryptography is only used for authentication and integrity purposes, it can be freely used. The cryptographic key or the nationality of the entities involved in the transaction do not matter. Typical e-business websites fall under this liberalized regime.
Exportation and importation of cryptographic tools to or from foreign countries must be either declared (when the other country is a member of the European Union) or requires an explicit authorization (for countries outside the EU)."
"The UK is part of Europe and internet is CENSORED"
This one is complex, but it looks like any type of net filtering is done voluntarily by ISPs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...
As for the parent:
"If something like that had happened in Europe, we would not have tolerated it even for a microsecond. We would have rallied on the streets and attacked the agency's headquarters."
I assume he's talking about recently? I mean, Europe was home to the Stasi, Fascism, Nazism, etc etc. Besides, what are they going to attack the agency's headquarters with? Cricket bats?
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
The problem is that surveillance is profitable.
There is NO government in the world that doesn't spy, none at all. Because ones that spy have an inherent advantage over ones that don't. The government can hem and haw over spying over its own citizens, but in the end, spying is beneficial and gives advantage to the country doing the spying.
Scale it down a bit and let's go to industrial espionage - why do countries do it? Because it's beneficial to spy on another country's tech - at the very least you get to figure out if their public face matches their private face (are they a real threat or are they blowing smoke?).
Saying you don't spy is merely a feel-good measure that results in massive disadvantage to you in the world.
/sarcasm "Cause Merica' that's why!!!"
-- Brought to you by Carl's JR
Maybe it's because I value my privacy more than any of those things.
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
Can I go Godwin on this one?
It did happen in Europe, exposed in Germany, and HQ is still standing.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Hey some of us do try to do something about it. Problem is that there is no one in elected office higher than county board (larger than a city but smaller than a state for the Europeans) that I have voted for. Those who do supposedly represent me at the state and national level basically ignore anything I say or write unless it happens to be something they support which is getting to be far less each election cycle. I do write letters to the editor for the local news papers but those have never been published even though I usually submit about one a month. I encourage others to do so and am met with apathy at best or am shunned because the individual welcomes these intrusions for the false security. So short of going all Punisher on the NSA please tell me what else I as an individual could be doing?
Time to offend someone
Media says almost nothing about it except what they're told to say. Obama has so many operatives in the US media, it's scary. Just today this story broke...
http://www.adweek.com/fishbowldc/msnbcs-rachel-racusen-rejoins-white-house/145784
Yeah, the mainstream media is the Brown Shirt army of this administration. But please, everyone, keep asking about Kim Retardashian's pregnancy.
In France ENCRYPTION IS ILLEGAL, to the point that there is a special version of Windows there that disables encryption.
[citation needed], see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
Sure, any normal, sane individual doesn't want 24x7 monitoring of all their activities.
However, their governments do.
In the US, we are powerless to stop it. Our rulers will pass whatever law they like, no mater how odious.
Microsoft leads to Bluescreen; Bluescreen leads to downtime; downtime leads to suffering.
Making that statement means one of three things: you are naive, you are stupid, or you are a troll.
Popisms.com - Connecting pop culture
I am Greek myself, so, for that special case of grouping, the least "European" for that specific "We" (we Greeks don't share so much that "goverment spying on its citizens" tradition with the rest of our fellow Europeans), althrough i don't support Snowden (i don't like traitors generally, and i don't like this narcissistic anti-hero specifically) - but let's not pretend that "We Europeans" stand in some higher moral ground than Yankees, at least not when the issue is anti-state ethics, something that Yankees are above everyone else in the world.
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Who do you think was providing the NSA with the data collected in the various European countries? And it is not illegal (in the US) for the NSA to spy on and collect any information they want on any foreign country. If Snowden had only released information about the US domestic related programs he might have been able to get a slap on the wrist. But he released information on NSA programs that targeted foreign countries. Programs that had nothing to do with US citizens. The type of programs that foreign intelligence services are supposed to be conducting. And unless every state security agency in the world disbands don't expect the US to stand down any of their foreign intelligence agencies.
Because the owners of the aforementioned content fail to supply the consumer, who paid for said content, with a flexible manner in which to share said content via fair use to other devices.
All my content is from my own DVD, TV connection and friend's DVD libraries. And I fully support people who download shit for free from sites like the old pirate's bay. Why? Because the claim of "missed revenue" is a matter of complete bullshit. I have watched movies for free at other people's houses that I would never bother paying to see again. Did I just steal something? No, I didn't, even if I copy it, because I would have never paid for it in the first place. People like you are too black and white to see the real big picture of how a corporation wants to control how I used the products I purchased from them. THAT baffles me, guy. Now, Mr. RIAA or MPAA go make some shit movies for me to share with friends via a USB drive, pinhead
This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
They never promised anything other than what was duly delivered.
Yes, thank you for this illustration. NSA has not stolen anything either — so what's your problem with them?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Again, why do you need to feel superior? Seriously. OP is discussing SURVEILLANCE and you talk about healthcare?
Right wing nationalism? I'm assuming you didn't notice that the Party that voted the continuation of the spying you're upset about was the left-leaning Party?
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
We did.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
OH SHUT UP, YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
The UK is part of Europe
Sure, and some of them hate it.
and internet is CENSORED over there. Everything you do online is logged.
That's in their genes, there's a reason 1984 and Bletchley Park are placed in England and James Bond is British.
In France ENCRYPTION IS ILLEGAL, to the point that there is a special version of Windows there that disables encryption.
Oh really? :)
Hint, you are delusional.
Why do Europeans have a tendency of making fools of themselves trying to look superior to the USA? (And no, i'm neither north american nor european)
It looks like you don't need to be either to be a fool...
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Who said encryption is not available in France?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well, yes, we do. Just not for us but for the US, but we do...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Onion had it right: Frustrated NSA Now Forced To Rely On Mass Surveillance Programs That Haven’t Come To Light Yet.
Without real oversight, we can write, repeal, or expire whatever laws we want. It won't make a difference.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
I thought you have to at least have a few dozen people on your consciousness. I mean, Kissinger, Arafat, Carter, Begin, Sadat, ...
From what I get, I think what you need to do to get one is to start a war that runs as horrible and brutal as possible, then when you're about to lose it, agree to end it. Maybe Snowden could convince the Russians to lend him some nukes? Then he'd have a chance. Else, I don't see any.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
As soon as content makers want to keep their content private and don't slug it about, we can talk. 'til then, find something better to compare it to.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Right. And neither did the NSA until the Snowden documents came to light.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
Good plan. What we really want is to make sure that the cost of doing the right thing is always the death penalty. That will make the world a better place. Want to do something for the benefit of society? Lay down your fucking life for it or STFU.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
What 'left leaning' party?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
As a European at hart and born I am sorry to say you are wrong.
But there is some truth, European law is usually more in favour of the individual than what we see in the USofA and the UK.
Very few governments would be able to get away with spying programs like it is happening in the Anglo-American circus.
One difference is their legal system was not affected by the French revolution.
And both the the Brits and Americans believe that because they live behind a moat they are somewhat special and this needs additional protection.
Yes this is medieval thinking.
For most continental Europeans this notion of neutrality was destroyed first by Napoleon and later by the likes of Stalin and Hitler.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I refuse to accept this. Unfortunately I do think that things will need to get worse before thing turn around I just hope it doesn't reach armed revolution as that never seems to end well.
Time to offend someone
This week it was revealed that my President went and met with him in Russia two months ago: http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/190900/gov%E2%80%99t-silent-after-meeting-with-snowden-revealed
ah.
must be like the whole "right to work...for less" thing.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Pretty much. The NSA stops and so the surveillance shifts to some other obscure agency that does exactly the same thing, but without the NSA's charter. The internet is a two edged sword. It makes corruption and incompetence harder to hide, but guarantees almost universal surveillance.
Ya' know, when we were watching Star Trek or Babylon 5 as kids, we kind of assumed universal surveillance, a global government and that all money was electronic. Not that it's starting to happen, it's scary as crap. I think it's because we don't have aliens as a common enemy. It's not us against them. It's us against us.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Yes, somewhat like that.
Live free or die.
"Oh, you caught us with our covert, illegal spying program to monitor American citizens. Ok. We'll shut it down. Look, I'm pressing the buttons to shut it down. It's shut down now. I swear it is. Ignore the red light on that camera. That red light means it's not recording. We're definitely not going to start another covert, illegal spying program. If we did, I promise that we'd tell you all about it."
"As long as cryptography is only used for authentication and integrity purposes"
Which means you can't encrypt the content of a message.
No, we outsourced Otto our besties - GCHQ, Canada, Australia, NZ -- the Five Eyes -- as well as Israel. We then trade info, and it's all good.
If Obama can win a peace prize, then snowden should win the peace prize.
What exactly is the solution to that mindset?
Yeah I was wondering about that too. The line from Wikipedia is somewhat vague.....because if you were using an SSL website to send something, aren't you encrypting the contents?
Anyone from France wish to comment?
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
With no real technical hurdles up to and including listening in on cell phone conversations, and little more than a check box on a form [ ] You did get a warrant, right?, there's nothing to stop G. Gordon Liddy types from spying on behalf of this or that politician, of the actions of their opponents.
And no-warrant stuff (sophistry to have access to who you called and when, but not the call audio itself) is a goldmine for political planners to attack and subvert opponents and their donors.
The whole thing is sickening from a Founding Fathers point of view.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
pardon's Edward Snowden has my vote.
Depends on the State. If police show up sans warrant and try to force entry to your home without probable cause, you can defend the home with deadly force if necessary.
[citation needed]
You really think that you can use deadly force against the sworn police department and not have any ill-effects? I'm betting that the police are better trained in firearm usage than you are and you will likely end up dead if you start a shootout.
WTB [sig], PST!!!
Due to the nature of the two party system, in order to gain the most votes the parties in the United States gravitate towards the center. How much so? The democrats are rated at a 4.8 (just slightly below centrist, hardly enough to describe as left-leaning), and Republicans at a 5.5 (just slightly above centrist) -- meaning both parties are quite similar and have only minor differences. In the end, they are both centrist parties.
In the United States, there are authentic left-leaning parties like the Green Party, and right leaning ones like the Conservative Party; but these never get enough votes to pass thresholds for campaign financing nor seats in a federal body like Congress.
In conclusion, the major parties of the United States are both centrist, and while their rhetoric might illustrate contrasts between them, in reality they are very close to each other in the political spectrum.
The aliens are just a plot twist. Even with aliens, the story has been, is, and, until we decide otherwise, will be "us against us".
That is all.
"We outsourced the program..."
Our data has been renditioned.
Yes the spying is still happening and it's the worst of it that the legislature has yet to address. Yeah, phone meta data collection is bad and unconstitutional, but the data collection from internet activity is worse. It's about a whole lot more than phone calls. Privacy laws related to electronic communications and data storage need to be updated to protect citizens rights from mass surveillance, heavy handed dishonest law enforcement tactics and corporate intrusion into our private lives.
The initial Verizon warrants were on an air-gapped server. Even with root everywhere on the network, these documents should have been inaccessible.
This situation makes more sense if we posit that the NSA had already been deeply penetrated by Russian intelligence, who learned of Snowden's sentiments and elected to assist him for reasons and costs of their own.
Snowden initially claimed that he was trying to reach Cuba. There are somewhat more direct routes than Hong Kong.
We likely do not know 1/100th of the backstory of the release of these documents.
Actually, I have made Putin an offer to just that extent. It is for a multitude of reasons, mainly comparative observation between nations and curiosity of the culture behind the iron curtain, my family did happen to be a player in the cold war era. One nation appears to be digging a hole, while the other appears to be filling one in.
I have heard Snowden wishes to return as I think he believes that things here can be corrected, but one cannot correct that which does not want to be and will certainly resort to a lie in a heartbeat. Better to rebuild after collapse provided someone trustworthy makes it to power, the problems in the US started in the 50's and have gained a lot of momentum to that end ever since.
Principled men are prepared to face the consequences, if they truly believe in the righteousness of their actions. (aka Manning)
Oh please.
You're quoting childish emotional logic designed for idiot followers of psychopathic authority figures. The monsters all really appreciate it when you follow their bullshit commands. Would you also "turn the other cheek" and "forgive and forget" as well, because some fairy tale tells you to?
When you *know* 100% for certain that the criminals you out are going to go for your blood, only an idiot gives it to them willingly over some cheesy Hallmark sentiment about what bravery is supposed to mean.
Honestly! You can stay free and continue to broadcast your message, or let the criminals you're outing have their way with you in a rigged system they control.
Hmm.
If you can't see your way through that simple problem, then you're also likely too gullible to have ever been a whistle blower yourself. You have no business judging true heroes like Snowden.
Yeah, phone meta data collection is bad and unconstitutional
Citation?
http://www.paul.senate.gov/new...
"We went to the court, the Second Court of Appeals, the highest court in the land just below the Supreme Court, said that what they are doing is illegal, but we don't yet have a ruling on whether it's Constitutional. One of my fears about the bill that we're going to pass, the sort of in-between step that some think it may be better, is that it will moot the case. "
Privacy laws related to electronic communications and data storage need to be updated
Update... besides HIPAA there's... what?
At least you're on the right track because the constitutional angle is just crap.
My biggest problem with all this is when people throw around words like freedom, liberty, constitution because they are too mentally lazy to admit we don't really have much in the way of privacy protection laws and the Constitution doesn't actually go there. So each and every time I hear "fourth amendment" instead of "privacy" I tune out a little more from this spying debate.
That makes no sense. The US has no 'left leaning' party of any note. It's an illusion created by a point of view, like those carnival houses tilted to make it look like the water is running uphill.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The instruments measuring the stances of US political parties, need a recalibration. The bucket-type sensors do not agree with the pocketbook-type sensors. Furthermore, there are no error bands, so the statistics must be based on a sample size of 1.
Political science is an oxymoron.
Do not vote for your candidate (politician) till he qualifies in fMRI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/f...
Casteism
my mod stalker strikes again.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
We have protections from general warrants. The unconstitutionality isn't cited as it my own opinion based on my belief that it should be covered by a combination of the 4th and 9th amendments.
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." - Ninth amendment text.
What needs updating in my mind is HIPAA, to expand what we consider medical information and better limit the use of that information and also update The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 and possibly Federal Wiretap Act of 1968.
In addition we need to limit the overly broad interpretation of the Smith case and third party doctrine as applied to customer relationships with corporate service providers.