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Edward Snowden: the World Says No To Surveillance
An anonymous reader writes: Two years after his whistle-blowing, Edward Snowden finds that his action had profound effects on political decision making and on citizen's understanding of privacy issues. He writes in the NY Times, "In a single month, the N.S.A.’s invasive call-tracking program was declared unlawful by the courts and disowned by Congress. After a White House-appointed oversight board investigation found that this program had not stopped a single terrorist attack, even the president who once defended its propriety and criticized its disclosure has now ordered it terminated. This is the power of an informed public. ... We are witnessing the emergence of a post-terror generation, one that rejects a worldview defined by a singular tragedy. For the first time since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, we see the outline of a politics that turns away from reaction and fear in favor of resilience and reason."
I guess the "terrorists attacks" phase is over. Let's start the "aliens attacks" phase.
Signed,
The Illuminati.
I feel like they're sensationalizing what is essentially a game of musical chairs -- the data is still being collected (by law). The spying is still happening.
Mr. Snowden, love him or hate him, actually did a service to the world by pointing out something that, if left ignored, would have rivaled the old East German Stasi in scope and reach (well, if it hasn't already. Hint: It probably has.)
I would say that if anyone deserved the title of 'whistleblower', this man damned sure qualifies.
Now, the next step - what in the hell do we actually do about it aside from individual protection? Sure, recent congressional actions (Thank you, Sen. Paul!) have put an end to at least one program... problem is, another grew to take its place (basically, the FBI is picking up where the NSA is allegedly leaving off).
I suspect this is going to take a lot more work than deleting web cookies and an occasional filibuster...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
This guy is Un-Cumberbatch-able
This. Ended the program? Bullshit.. We outsourced the program, the same way the government routinely does with anything it wants but can't legally do itself.
That said, I'll still take this over what we had last week. But don't think we won the war yet - Not by a looong shot.
He really seems to live in his own bubble of self-delusion. The majority of Americans: (1) do not know about NSA surveillance, (2) do not care and (3) have no fucking idea who Edward Snowden is. Just this week, the USA Freedom Act reauthorized these programs, and the only politician who seems to care? Rand Paul, the most hated man in the Senate. I'm sorry, but the consequences of Snowden's leaks have been minimal, and, if the world is saying anything about surveillance, it's not no, it's "Yeah, okay. Whatever."
... to raise the insurance indexes. big one is going to happen any time now.
Release the Kraken!
Really, all this pontification of what's good or bad it what gets us into this mess.
Just keep it simple, the mass collection didn't may sense and that's it. All this "This is the power of an informed public." or 'emergence of a post-terror generation' rhetoric is just fuel to another fire--all we need is another incident and Snowden's going to look like a politician & we're back were we started.
There's two types of people in this world: those who have something to say, and those to have something to prove. --cw
We Europeans are often curious why you Americans do not appear to do anything about NSA, even if it presents a significant problem?
If something like that had happened in Europe, we would not have tolerated it even for a microsecond. We would have rallied on the streets and attacked the agency's headquarters.
The difference is that you're allowed to defend yourself against the outsourcing company.
When the police (government) come knocking at your door, you can't just warn them to leave and shoot them if they don't. Even in states with "castle" laws, you're screwed if you do this.
When a bounty hunter hired by the government comes knocking at your door, you can. It's his responsibility to hand that job back to the government if you're resisting him. If you ventilate him because he doesn't, there are plenty of states where you can actually get away with that, simply because he's not a sworn officer of the law.
Likewise, you can't fuck with the NSA to screw up their wiretap operations in subversive and possibly-destructive ways. But you can do that to AT&T, Verizon, et al. Why? Because trespassing is a thing that only restricts non-governmental entities and representatives. And "unlawful use of a computer" crimes are written as "trespassing for the internet". It covers the new data overlords just as much as it covers you. It never covered the NSA, but the NSA isn't directly involved anymore.
We outsourced the program,
Right. To the Chinese.
Obama got it for doing nothing, this guy at least did something.
Edward Snowden knowingly gave the world this information at enormous personal cost. Only if enough of us stand up, stop debating minutiae, and demand that it stop will Mr. Snowden's sacrifice have been worth it.
The spying is still happening.
That's right... Nothing has changed. And Mr. Snowden hasn't been watching the elections recently. Right wing nationalism is all the rage and making a big comeback. Mass media says a lot about surveillance, but at election time the people still don't give a shit.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I fail to see, how the same group of people can see nothing reprehensible in copying songs, movies, and even designs and patents without the "owners'" permissions (indeed, the very possibility of owning information is rejected with high peer-approval), but object so loudly to others capturing, recording, and analyzing information about themselves.
Was your phone call interrupted because of the NSA's tapping? Has your e-mail ever gotten lost because of it? No — as with all digital content, your "originals" are perfectly safe, aren't they? Whether it is a picture of your privates, a birthday-note to your mom, or bomb-making instructions, the message arrived safely to its recipient(s). So, what's the objection?
(And, yes, for the particularly pedantic among us, sometimes the wiretaps probably do cause actual disruption, but that's rare and is not the primary cause for objections.)
Now, I dislike others accessing my information without my permission as a matter of principle. But I afford the same right to object to music and movie-companies and others, who produce information and wish to control its use. That so many otherwise reasonable people would be so self-inconsistent as to support one, but not the other, baffles me...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
No way! He says he's against it... but his administration fights to keep it up!
Oh, and he's still supports the Muslim Brotherhood too!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/3/inside-the-ring-muslim-brotherhood-has-obamas-secr/
But no way he's a bad president. Nope, the lamestream media tells us he's god. So do all the celebs you all love to watch (you know, instead of education yourselves on world matters). CNN opened with Kim Retardashian's pregnancy. That was their opening story earlier this week on the morning news. Not real news, but that. Then, it was "The Rock"... then some news. Keep watching CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc etc.
Media says almost nothing about it except what they're told to say. Obama has so many operatives in the US media, it's scary. Just today this story broke...
http://www.adweek.com/fishbowldc/msnbcs-rachel-racusen-rejoins-white-house/145784
Yeah, the mainstream media is the Brown Shirt army of this administration. But please, everyone, keep asking about Kim Retardashian's pregnancy.
Sure, any normal, sane individual doesn't want 24x7 monitoring of all their activities.
However, their governments do.
In the US, we are powerless to stop it. Our rulers will pass whatever law they like, no mater how odious.
Microsoft leads to Bluescreen; Bluescreen leads to downtime; downtime leads to suffering.
It is time corrupted politicians and their organized crime syndicates to step aside.
We need people with clean hands like Snowden to lead our country.
Criminals within military and government security forces are destroying this country. Democracy will win.
Principled men are prepared to face the consequences, if they truly believe in the righteousness of their actions. (aka Manning)
Right wing nationalism? I'm assuming you didn't notice that the Party that voted the continuation of the spying you're upset about was the left-leaning Party?
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
There's no doubt in my mind that on 9/11, Rove and Cheney danced a joyous jig when they realized the tragedy could be exploited to justify Endless War (TM) and the Surveillance State for both political and (far more importantly) financial gain.
Related: why do so many Americans still hate Edward Snowden? Because he took away their precious fantasy about 'That Shining City on the Hill' being a source and protector of all things good and just.
The Onion had it right: Frustrated NSA Now Forced To Rely On Mass Surveillance Programs That Haven’t Come To Light Yet.
Without real oversight, we can write, repeal, or expire whatever laws we want. It won't make a difference.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
What 'left leaning' party?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
This week it was revealed that my President went and met with him in Russia two months ago: http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/190900/gov%E2%80%99t-silent-after-meeting-with-snowden-revealed
Pretty much. The NSA stops and so the surveillance shifts to some other obscure agency that does exactly the same thing, but without the NSA's charter. The internet is a two edged sword. It makes corruption and incompetence harder to hide, but guarantees almost universal surveillance.
Ya' know, when we were watching Star Trek or Babylon 5 as kids, we kind of assumed universal surveillance, a global government and that all money was electronic. Not that it's starting to happen, it's scary as crap. I think it's because we don't have aliens as a common enemy. It's not us against them. It's us against us.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
"When the police (government) come knocking at your door, you can't just warn them to leave and shoot them if they don't. Even in states with "castle" laws, you're screwed if you do this."
Depends on the State. If police show up sans warrant and try to force entry to your home without probable cause, you can defend the home with deadly force if necessary.
A necessary evil in an era where folks like to play " Dress like the police " to get the occupant to let them in, then rob the place.
Still happening, and will continue to be wiggled around, and us lied to, until we get the corruption money and blackmail out of politics.
"Oh, you caught us with our covert, illegal spying program to monitor American citizens. Ok. We'll shut it down. Look, I'm pressing the buttons to shut it down. It's shut down now. I swear it is. Ignore the red light on that camera. That red light means it's not recording. We're definitely not going to start another covert, illegal spying program. If we did, I promise that we'd tell you all about it."
No, we outsourced Otto our besties - GCHQ, Canada, Australia, NZ -- the Five Eyes -- as well as Israel. We then trade info, and it's all good.
If Obama can win a peace prize, then snowden should win the peace prize.
What exactly is the solution to that mindset?
With no real technical hurdles up to and including listening in on cell phone conversations, and little more than a check box on a form [ ] You did get a warrant, right?, there's nothing to stop G. Gordon Liddy types from spying on behalf of this or that politician, of the actions of their opponents.
And no-warrant stuff (sophistry to have access to who you called and when, but not the call audio itself) is a goldmine for political planners to attack and subvert opponents and their donors.
The whole thing is sickening from a Founding Fathers point of view.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
pardon's Edward Snowden has my vote.
Depends on the State. If police show up sans warrant and try to force entry to your home without probable cause, you can defend the home with deadly force if necessary.
[citation needed]
You really think that you can use deadly force against the sworn police department and not have any ill-effects? I'm betting that the police are better trained in firearm usage than you are and you will likely end up dead if you start a shootout.
WTB [sig], PST!!!
Due to the nature of the two party system, in order to gain the most votes the parties in the United States gravitate towards the center. How much so? The democrats are rated at a 4.8 (just slightly below centrist, hardly enough to describe as left-leaning), and Republicans at a 5.5 (just slightly above centrist) -- meaning both parties are quite similar and have only minor differences. In the end, they are both centrist parties.
In the United States, there are authentic left-leaning parties like the Green Party, and right leaning ones like the Conservative Party; but these never get enough votes to pass thresholds for campaign financing nor seats in a federal body like Congress.
In conclusion, the major parties of the United States are both centrist, and while their rhetoric might illustrate contrasts between them, in reality they are very close to each other in the political spectrum.
The aliens are just a plot twist. Even with aliens, the story has been, is, and, until we decide otherwise, will be "us against us".
That is all.
"We outsourced the program..."
Our data has been renditioned.
Yes the spying is still happening and it's the worst of it that the legislature has yet to address. Yeah, phone meta data collection is bad and unconstitutional, but the data collection from internet activity is worse. It's about a whole lot more than phone calls. Privacy laws related to electronic communications and data storage need to be updated to protect citizens rights from mass surveillance, heavy handed dishonest law enforcement tactics and corporate intrusion into our private lives.
The initial Verizon warrants were on an air-gapped server. Even with root everywhere on the network, these documents should have been inaccessible.
This situation makes more sense if we posit that the NSA had already been deeply penetrated by Russian intelligence, who learned of Snowden's sentiments and elected to assist him for reasons and costs of their own.
Snowden initially claimed that he was trying to reach Cuba. There are somewhat more direct routes than Hong Kong.
We likely do not know 1/100th of the backstory of the release of these documents.
Hey, world, your lips say, "No, no, no", but your Five Eyes say, "Yes, yes, yes"!
Depends on the State. If police show up sans warrant and try to force entry to your home without probable cause, you can defend the home with deadly force if necessary.
[citation needed]
You really think that you can use deadly force against the sworn police department and not have any ill-effects? I'm betting that the police are better trained in firearm usage than you are and you will likely end up dead if you start a shootout.
Citation provided:
No charges after Oklahoma police chief shot four times
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/17/us/oklahoma-police-chief/
As it should. Don't like it? Try things out in Russia with your buddies Putin and spy Snowpup.
The one that Democrat Dianne Feinstein, Director of the NSA, is a member of, you nitwit.
You realise that once you decide it can no longer be "us against us," it's going to be just that for longer? Potentially more violent and oppressive, too.
High speed lead injection.
Actually, I have made Putin an offer to just that extent. It is for a multitude of reasons, mainly comparative observation between nations and curiosity of the culture behind the iron curtain, my family did happen to be a player in the cold war era. One nation appears to be digging a hole, while the other appears to be filling one in.
I have heard Snowden wishes to return as I think he believes that things here can be corrected, but one cannot correct that which does not want to be and will certainly resort to a lie in a heartbeat. Better to rebuild after collapse provided someone trustworthy makes it to power, the problems in the US started in the 50's and have gained a lot of momentum to that end ever since.
Principled men are prepared to face the consequences, if they truly believe in the righteousness of their actions. (aka Manning)
Oh please.
You're quoting childish emotional logic designed for idiot followers of psychopathic authority figures. The monsters all really appreciate it when you follow their bullshit commands. Would you also "turn the other cheek" and "forgive and forget" as well, because some fairy tale tells you to?
When you *know* 100% for certain that the criminals you out are going to go for your blood, only an idiot gives it to them willingly over some cheesy Hallmark sentiment about what bravery is supposed to mean.
Honestly! You can stay free and continue to broadcast your message, or let the criminals you're outing have their way with you in a rigged system they control.
Hmm.
If you can't see your way through that simple problem, then you're also likely too gullible to have ever been a whistle blower yourself. You have no business judging true heroes like Snowden.
Yeah, phone meta data collection is bad and unconstitutional
Citation?
http://www.paul.senate.gov/new...
"We went to the court, the Second Court of Appeals, the highest court in the land just below the Supreme Court, said that what they are doing is illegal, but we don't yet have a ruling on whether it's Constitutional. One of my fears about the bill that we're going to pass, the sort of in-between step that some think it may be better, is that it will moot the case. "
Privacy laws related to electronic communications and data storage need to be updated
Update... besides HIPAA there's... what?
At least you're on the right track because the constitutional angle is just crap.
My biggest problem with all this is when people throw around words like freedom, liberty, constitution because they are too mentally lazy to admit we don't really have much in the way of privacy protection laws and the Constitution doesn't actually go there. So each and every time I hear "fourth amendment" instead of "privacy" I tune out a little more from this spying debate.
Snowden is a traitor pure and simple. It Is the role of government to spy. To spy on it's citizens (in case of homegrown terrorism) and to spy on foreign powers. What you DO NOT WANT is law enforcement spying. This is when you have a police state. There is a BIG difference between laweforcement spying and NSA spying. NSA spying allows them to know beforehand when someone is going to blow up a pipline in Valdez Alaska, and then they can send operators to take them out. Law enforcement spying allows the cops to construct a case against a family to take the children away (and send them to the Epstein ranch for kids) and send the parents away for 20 years of rehabilitation at a cost of $200 a day paid to the prison corporation of America. Why are people so worried about GITMO when we keep so many USAian citizens in jail for bullshit at enormous expense. It is a strange world we live in. Today people are actually shocked that the USA would spy. 20 years ago people would have expected it. Only today the media and the government are largely controlled by transnational corporations, of whom China, Russia and Mexico have a major financial interest. So in 2015 we have a situation where the USA is not allowed to control it's borders, We do nothing when China hacks our pertinent personal data, and Russia is allowed to Run ruff shot over Ukraine. However we will fight an endless war (funded by China) against Right wing freedom fighters who believe in family values and the second amendment.
> I'm betting that the police are better trained in firearm usage than you are...
You should look at studies done on accuracy in police shootins. IIRC, the gist of it was that most engagements happen within 20 feet, and even at that close range, accuracy is horrendous.
>...and you will likely end up dead if you start a shootout.
Perhaps.
That makes no sense. The US has no 'left leaning' party of any note. It's an illusion created by a point of view, like those carnival houses tilted to make it look like the water is running uphill.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The instruments measuring the stances of US political parties, need a recalibration. The bucket-type sensors do not agree with the pocketbook-type sensors. Furthermore, there are no error bands, so the statistics must be based on a sample size of 1.
Political science is an oxymoron.
Do not vote for your candidate (politician) till he qualifies in fMRI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/f...
Casteism
We have protections from general warrants. The unconstitutionality isn't cited as it my own opinion based on my belief that it should be covered by a combination of the 4th and 9th amendments.
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." - Ninth amendment text.
What needs updating in my mind is HIPAA, to expand what we consider medical information and better limit the use of that information and also update The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 and possibly Federal Wiretap Act of 1968.
In addition we need to limit the overly broad interpretation of the Smith case and third party doctrine as applied to customer relationships with corporate service providers.