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How Does Musk's Government Funding Compare To Competitors?
Rei writes: We recently discussed an article in the LA Times complaining about how Elon Musk has built his corporate empires — Solar City, Tesla Motors and SpaceX — on the back of government subsidies. However, how does the funding compare in context to various competitors? USC professor Greg Autry breaks it down, noting among other things that SpaceX's competitors have benefited from decades of tremendous government money and a launch monopoly, while the Volt receives — on a percentage basis — 2 1/2 times greater subsidy than a Model S, and was developed on the government's dime.
while the Volt receives — on a percentage basis — 2 1/2 times greater subsidy than a Model S, and was developed on the government's dime.
Maybe that is because a Model S costs 2.4 times that of a Volt. On a per vehicle basis they are almost the same.
No one cares how he compares to competition. There are two broad groups of people on this:
1) People think it's fine for the government to subsidize some industry.
2) People who think the government should not subsidize industry.
The people in group #1 think it's good that the Tesla and Volt got government funding. The people in group #2 oppose funding of both Tesla and Volt. So a study like this will change no one's opinion (and from the author's writing, it is clear that is what he's trying to do).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
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For instance, General Electric is always whining about taxes, yet pays a small percentage of revenue in taxes. It's an example of a corporation that is focused on taking, not giving.
So if you want to complain about excessive government subsidies, don't just look at one industry.
You can read the whole article (and you should), but here are some nice excerpts.
FTA: On the electric car front, the Chevy Volt is the most significant U.S. competitor to Musk's Tesla Model S...
Meanwhile, Volt was developed during Uncle Sam's bailout of "Government Motors" with $30 billion. That's more than six times the number that got Mr. Hirsch so worked up! Though GM touts that they've "repaid" the government, Treasury reports that the government lost more than $11 billion on that dubious deal.
The Model S is not comparable to the Volt. The Volt is a plug-in hybrid (not an EV) cludge to meet the requirements of a bail out. The Nissan Leaf is a better comparison and it blows the Model S out of the water in its effects on the market. But, the author wants to hamstring a stronger comparison by requiring that the company be American.
Additionally, a bail out deal and subsidy are not comparable. A bail out deal your mom throwing you a few hundred bucks because your business failed, rent needs to be paid, and you have to go visit her to pick up the check. A subsidy is your mom throwing you a few hundred bucks to start up or expand your business. One's there to save your as with some nominal requirements and the other is there to help you profit. Musk has taken both for Tesla.
FTA: The most polite response I can offer to the critics is: Get over it. Find something more productive to do than condemning success. If you insist on continuing to carp, do your research first and hit the right targets. Otherwise you will continue to sound jealous and misinformed.
Wow, internet tough guy, huh?
Oh, and this isn't the only time this guy has white-knighted for Musk. He's actually a bit of a fanboy, so don't let his professorship lull you into a false sense of academic separation:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... "Disclosure: Dr. Autry currently owns Tesla stock."
https://twitter.com/gregwautry
https://www.facebook.com/gregw...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/re...
I'm getting a little sick of the slovenly Musk worship on this site. It's worse than the way 99% of Slashdotters used to drop to their knees anytime Steve Jobs whipped his dick out. Like Jobs, Musk could take a shit on stage and most of your pathetic fanboys would be fighting each other for the privilege to touch it.
Touch it? Hell, they'd fight to eat it.
There's a storyline going on right now.
Musk is frequently portrayed as a great symbol of free enterprise. Someone likely got sick of this and looked into how much government money Musk's companies were receiving. That in turn generated this particular response to point out the fraction of government money that Musk's companies received compared to competitors.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
The reason we use government funding to incentivize things is because we as a public want people to do/build/invent/fix those things and are willing to pay for that to happen.
So Elon Musk comes along and says he will and then he does. And then we pay him what, as a public, we planned to pay (via those incentives) to whoever did them.
Seems like everything is going according to plan, for all involved, and that we're lucky enough to have found something of a one-stop-shop for incentivized work that few others are willing to take on, but that seems to really move the needle on tech progress for something other than consumer electronics gadgets.
Win/win all around. Smells like right wing paranoia and demagoguery to me in here.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
It's such nonsense, this talk range anxiety and Tesla. If you can get 150 miles on a charge, that's seriously going to be enough for just about everyone. Provided it can get from home -> work -> home again, it's fine.
The real problem is cost, which they're trying to reduce, and one day might get there. My commute for example is about 20 miles per day, round trip. If i could have gotten something like a tesla/leaf (maybe not a leaf since it looks like a practical joke by an industrial designer) for less than $30k, I would have done so in a heart beat.
On the very, very rare occasion a longer trip is needed; just rent a car.
well dude, in that case you're right, a tesla isn't for you. But your particular situation is absolutely (and I think you can even admit this) not the norm.
I like the volt as well, but it seems a bit sluggish, whereas the tesla looks like it would still be pretty fun to drive.
If we get low cost to LEO and baseload batteries out of Musk's efforts, then he is making much better use of any government money than the government is.
Musk is changing industries, big ones. From finance (Paypal, I know, it does suck, but alternatives are few and far between), solar, battery, electric cars, and space flight.
Jobs was a pioneer of computing but ended up a design specialist (good function and things like rounded corners).
I am a fanboy or no one. But I have to respect Musk as he doesn't talk about things, he does them. Richard Branson probably wishes he was Elon Musk...
I appreciate all of the Slashdot stories referring to Musk's activities. I don't actively seek out such information, but Slashdot provides it. And you certainly can't make an argument that the stories' topics aren't Slashdot fodder. Musk is a technical innovator of the highest standard, I don't believe anyone compares to him at this moment in time.
In conclusion, skip the story if you don't give a shit. That's what I do and I don't find myself needing to criticize or complain about story topics.
BlameBillCosby.com
You're right. People aren't appreciative *enough* of him.
Let's see. Creates the best car ever, creates rockets for fun and as insurance to potentially save humanity by going to Mars, going to create rockets at least half the price as competitors, and potentially 100x cheaper, wants to save the Earth from CO2 and is beginning to do it, amazing engineer, helped create Paypal (when it was good), open-sourced patents, envisaged design for hyperloop, building the largest battery factory ever made by an order of magnitude or more, wanted to originally research supercaps (great area to study!), cares about quality rather than just money. Put every last penny he had at his own cost in order to save Tesla and SpaceX. Speaks frankly during interviews.
No one like him.
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