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Emails Show How Industry Lobbyists Basically Wrote The Trans-Pacific Partnership

An anonymous reader writes: This Techdirt story shows how industry lobbyists influenced the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement, to the point that one even openly celebrates that the Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) version copied his own text word for word. The email exchange between Jim DeLisi, from Fanwood Chemical, to Barbara Weisel, a USTR official reads: "Hi Barbara – John sent through a link to the P4 agreement. I have taken a quick look at the rules of origin. Someone owes USTR a royalty payment – these are our rules. They will need some tweaking but will likely not need major surgery. This is a very pleasant surprise. I will study more closely over the weekend."

28 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. Of course they did. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This has become standard practice for the US.

    The industry groups write the treaty, and then tell the government what they want.

    Then the US government dutifully becomes lackeys to industry, and advances a position which gives industry ridiculous things which could never be negotiated in public.

    During this, they insist on secrecy so that the citizens of none of the countries can know that they're being heavily undermined to advance the interests of US businesses.

    Lather, rise, repeat.

    The US government isn't just advancing the interests of multinational corporations, they're advancing them to the detriment of the citizens -- which means nobody benefits from these fucking things other than corporations.

    Welcome to the global fucking oligarchy. Make no mistake about it, the US government are nothing more than industry shills.

    Fuck you, America.

    1. Re:Of course they did. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This has become standard practice for the US.

      The industry groups write the treaty, and then tell the government what they want.

      This is due to Republican cuts to Congressional staffs. Remember Newt Gingrich and the "Contract with America"?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_with_America#Content_of_the_Contract

      >> 3) Cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third

      By eliminating independent research staffs, they made it a near-certainty that industry would capture regulation (see also Mancur Olson, "The Rise and Decline of Nations" (1982)

  2. At the cost of the tax payer by Roodvlees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is mainly a way for tax money to flow into the pockets of people who are already very rich.
    Foreign companies are treated very well, governments want the extra jobs.
    Why do foreign companies need more/better rights than nationals?

    Defenders will say this is false, but it's what TTIP will lead to, like what other similar trade agreements have lead to.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    1. Re:At the cost of the tax payer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The economists love to say that trade is great for everyone. But they assume that all parties have an equal amount of advantages and disadvantages. There is this illusion of comparative advantage. But at least with the US we are making trade deals for the sole purpose of businesses lowering their costs to boost profits and make their shareholders richer and their CEOs even richer; while we little people lose opportunities and jobs and stagnant wages. This country's structural unemployment and underemployment is indicative of this.

      Protectionism? Absolutely not!

      What we need is a business environment like Germany's where government, business and labor all work together for society's overall prosperity. In the US, labor needs much more power (unions) and business needs to be taken down a few notches. I think we need to move towards a German economic model - stop the corporatism in the US.

    2. Re:At the cost of the tax payer by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. This is crony capitalism. Free trade is great for everyone, with government's role being to make sure it stays "free". Nobody outside of the two major political parties will tell you that crony capitalism is good for anybody except the cronies.

      This is capitalism in practice. Show me an example of capitalism that exists without cronyism in the real world -- outside of the economists' idealized computer models. "Pure capitalism" is the economists' version of the "perfectly spherical cow".

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    3. Re:At the cost of the tax payer by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. This is crony capitalism. Free trade is great for everyone, with government's role being to make sure it stays "free". Nobody outside of the two major political parties will tell you that crony capitalism is good for anybody except the cronies.

      You mix "free trade" and "capitalism" in your sentences as if they were interchangeable and equivalent. They are not. The U.S. had capitalism without free international trade for a long time -- and still does. Free trade only helps the traders. It just means that the taxes that were levied on duties now have to be collected elsewhere. It's a nice phrase for "shifting the tax burden" -- nothing else. Free trade does not magically lower the cost of government.

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
  3. Who is surprised by this? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This has been SOP for years.

    The US government is now acting as a foreign policy arm for multinational corporations, and doing secret negotiations so nobody knows just how badly we're being fucked over for our corporate overlords.

    This is the worst form of capitalism, one in which all consideration is for corporations who have the government on the payroll, and in which the citizens of the countries get fucked over.

    America has been allowing corporations to write the trade treaties for a long time. Because America is essentially a corrupt shell beholden to corporations.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Who is surprised by this? by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Capitalism devolves into fascism as corporations petition governments to do their will by interfering in the markets in some way.

      To be fair, I suspect much of this is the general dumbing down of our leaders combined with the increasingly technical World they are asked to govern.

      The Congressman need not understand (or employ someone who understands) with all those helpful lobbyists at their beck and call.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

  4. I'm not smart enough by fortfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

    to know how this thing will operate. Whether there needs to be an agreement, and what needs to be in it, must be decided by some folks who have some decent idea of how these relationships operate.

    The unfortunate part is that no one involved is doing anything to establish their credibility with regard to my interests. The people involved are plenty smart, but most of their words and actions seem to indicate that they have little to no consideration of my interests.

    Are my interests more important than yours? Of course not. Neither are yours more important than mine. And most importantly, neither are the authors' more important than ours, collectively.

    It would be nice to see some attention paid to that fact.

    1. Re:I'm not smart enough by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most of the TPP is your standard free trade agreement fare - removing tarriffs, stopping countries from favoring their local companies and punishing foreign ones, etc. If you're a fan of free trade agreements, you'll probably be a fan of it. If you hate free trade agreements, you'll probably hate it.

      The part that most people on Slashdot will hate regardless of views on free trade agreements in general however is the IP section. It basically imposes an even more rightsholder-friendly version of US IP law on all member states. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been railing about it since the earlier versions were leaked, like Issa's leak in 2012. It's not gotten any better.

      But as for all of the other stuff: 1) if you like free trade agreements, "Yeay!". 2) If you don't like free trade agreements, "Boo!"

      As for the secrecy, unfortunately, this is generally how complex international treaties are negotiated - the concept being that if the public is involved in every stage of the negotiations, they'll never get anywhere; there's so many countless details to iron out and a lot of give-and-take between countries. It's supposed to be fair because when it's done, the full text is made public and each country gets to vote on it; it's not like it suddenly becomes some sort of "secret law". But obviously whenever you negotiate something in secret it's going to make the public suspicious of it - that should pretty much be a given.

      --
      "99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
    2. Re:I'm not smart enough by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Please stop the stream of BS. Most of the tariffs and similar obstructions to free trade have BEEN LONG ELIMINATED BETWEEN US AND EU.

      This agreement is about demolishing democracy as the last obstacle of "free trade" where "free trade" means "governments having any sovereign power left to actually be able to legislate for their constituents against the power of capital".

    3. Re:I'm not smart enough by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please stop the stream of BS. Most of the tariffs and similar obstructions to free trade have BEEN LONG ELIMINATED BETWEEN US AND EU.

      The EU is not a member party to the negotiations of the Trans Pacific Partnership.

      --
      "99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
    4. Re:I'm not smart enough by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please read your own link better: It says " it will grant the authority to decide and negotiate the terms of agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) to the executive branch," "...critical to successfully negotiating its terms internationally", etc. Duh. That's what we're talking about here. It's being negotiated in secret. It will not become some sort of "secret law". Once it's done, the full text will be released and congress will have to vote on it, just like all treaties.

      --
      "99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
    5. Re:I'm not smart enough by Coisiche · · Score: 3, Informative

      Some European countries are defining reserved sectors in the TTIP negotiations, like healthcare, so that some transnational corporation can't sue them over having to compete with an established national service. Others, like UK aren't having any reserved sectors. From the rush David Cameron seems to be in to get it approved I can only assume he is being very well rewarded.

  5. Same thing for TTIP and TPP by vikingpower · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Both are ways, for large corporations, to "externalize risks to policitcs, and internalize profits". The wording is not mine. Karl Marx already observed this practice.

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
  6. But this is a new low... by Pollux · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think it's common knowledge by now that industry can buy legislation. The new low is that the actual text of the bill is being kept under lock and key.

    I simply cannot see how it is constitutional to permit this to happen. While I understand that rules are being leveraged to limit its exposure (including the fast-track vote process), the spirit of the Constitution has always advocated for transparency and public ownership of government operations.

    I suppose what upsets me the most is that I cannot determine which I am more upset with: what's being done with the TPP or the fact that we don't have enough congressmen speaking out against it. As a representative of the people, any legislative process that seeks to erode the spirit of the Constitution is a threat to their constituents and should not be passed. I don't care if the text of the bill would buy every American a new house; the fact that it's being kept secret should be plenty of reason alone to vote it down.

    1. Re:But this is a new low... by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Funny

      I simply cannot see how it is constitutional to permit this to happen. While I understand that rules are being leveraged to limit its exposure (including the fast-track vote process), the spirit of the Constitution has always advocated for transparency and public ownership of government operations.

      Secret courts, secret legislation. Pretty soon we'll have a secret President too.

      "So, who won the election?"

      "We can't tell you."

      "You can't tell us who the President is?"

      "No. National Security. Terrorists."

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    2. Re:But this is a new low... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Interesting

      the fact that it's being kept secret should be plenty of reason alone to vote it down.

      This is one of the few instances where "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear" actually applies. If the TPP is so great, why all the secrecy? If you've got to hide the details of a bill or treaty to get it passed, then maybe there's something wrong with your bill/treaty that means it shouldn't be passed!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:But this is a new low... by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not exactly. Treaties are always negotiated in secret. They kind of have to be. If the entire world gets to see every point and counterpoint and bluff and call you can't negotiate. There's nothing wrong with secret negotiation. And in general without the input of congress. It is the job of the executive branch to negotiate treaties, and the job of the senate to ratify or reject them.

      Now once the negotiation is complete, though, there needs to be plenty of time to deliberate over the finished treaty before ratification. That part needs to be public and lengthy.

      And "fast track" doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be passed quickly. It just means it must be taken or left as is, that congress can't make changes and send the executive back to the table. Which is not 100% unreasonable because if every nation did that negotiations would never end.

      So there should be a long deliberation about whether this treaty should be wholly adopted or wholly rejected, with plenty of time for experts, media, industry, and /. commentators to weigh in on the pros and cons of the terms as they stand.

      I don't see that happening, of course. It'll blow right through, and will probably be horrible for individuals. But so far there's nothing substantially wrong with the process.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:But this is a new low... by flaming+error · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Politicians are a reflection of voters"
      +1 Funny

      What they tell you on your cereal box isn't entirely accurate. If you can find 20 minutes every two years to go vote, perhaps you can also come up with 20 minutes once in your life to watch this TED talk by Lawrence Lessig and learn how american electoral politics really works.

    5. Re:But this is a new low... by MrKaos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The new low is that the actual text of the bill is being kept under lock and key.

      The text of the bill is not secret, because there is no bill. There are only preliminary drafts, that are still under negotiation. When/if a final agreement is reached, it will be submitted to congress for approval, and will not be secret.

      Yes, that's true. Usually it will pan out like this. A 3000 page bill is presented to the House. Some Urgent! reason is invented for a fast track through the house before it can be properly evaluated and they pass it. You HAVE to read it to understand what it is then you have to analyze it for what it will do. It is a lot of work but it has to be done.

      Politician don't take people seriously if they don't get letters making sure the politicians know what you expect of them and that it will cost them votes if they force is on people. Apathy is and always has been the enemy of western political stability and even Franklin himself said of the constitution 'for all its flaws' IIRC would not protect the US from slipping into despotism. The TPP sure looks like pretty good way to start a slide.

      People died to earn the rights we have now and its sad to see people just pissing them away as if they are nothing because people don't understand how to use them, how they came to be or why they're important. You can't blame people because it was achieved by carefully de-educating the population and aggregating the sources of news into a few manageable mega-outlets.

      The audacity of these people to chase the very legal core of all western nations makes me wonder where your morals must be to participate in such an activity, which is really just a robbery of rights for capital. That's not Capitalism any more, it's Corporatism dressed in its finest deceptive cowardice come to steal the common good and make it a slave, for life.

      Will we get any protection from this domestic enemy? No - you'll be labelled as it.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    6. Re:But this is a new low... by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Voters are often idiots though. They are easily manipulated. They could, theoretically, vote everyone out to be replaced by hard working reformers. But it won't happen because of all the idiots. Politics are like sports fandom and just as illogical - your side are the true heroes and the other side are evil usurpers. Manipulate the voters by telling them to be afraid: afraid of terrorists, afraid of people who look different, afraid of losing their jobs, afraid that someone from a different demographic will gain an advantage, afraid of communits, afraid of fascists, afraid of flipflopping moderates. If you keep people afraid then they will voluntarily give up all their rights.

      It's a con game - the people may have all the power but the con man knows how to take it.

  7. Not all of it is new. But something IS new. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Insightful
    US Government acting as the strong arm enforcer for the US Business interests has a long history. But usually it undermined the rights of the citizens of foreign countries more than it undermined US citizens' rights. And the businesses were US businesses, which ultimately made them have lots of common interest with USA. What is new is, these businesses are no longer US businesses, they are trans national corporations, they don't feel any allegiance to the USA. They treat USA just as they have treated all the third world countries all these years, using corrupt puppet governments to sign treaties that gave away all the wealth of the nation...

    One small consolation is now some in the USA feel what it was like to be a poor South American or South Asian or African whose government was totally controlled by foreign companies.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  8. Re:You want a Nanny State, Socialism, Big Governme by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sorry, but you seem to be confusing a corrupt oligarchy for a nanny state.

    And that's pretty much bullshit.

    This is governments becoming beholden to corporations, and selling the farm for some magic beans.

    This isn't a nanny state, this is a wholesale co-opting of government for corporate interests.

    This has NOTHING at all to do with socialism, and everything to do with corporate welfare and stacking the deck for them.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  9. FIFA 2.0 by johanw · · Score: 5, Funny

    And then the US complains that FIFA officials are corrupt.

  10. Secrecy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > As for the secrecy, unfortunately, this is generally how complex international treaties are negotiated [...]

    No.

    In a democracy, *I want my representative to know what's in the negotiations*, *I want to read about the content in the newspapers*.

    I don't need to take part in said negotiations, but I want to have an informed opinion on what is being negotiated on my behalf. *I want my representative to have an informed opinion* when it comes to the up/down vote.

    Everything else is anti-democratic.

  11. What could possibly go wrong? by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A law so secret that you can't even view it unless you're a congressperson, and even then you have to go to a locked room without recording equipment.

    But how could that be suspicious at all?

    And now we find out it's written and conceived by multinational corporations.

    And we all know how benevolent and caring *they* are.

    More seriously, anyone who votes for this has been bribed or blackmailed. It's an obvious takeover of nation-states by a globe spanning elite corporate-state.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  12. Re:Ignorant by kilfarsnar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is how most bills are written. That is not a cynical but rather purely factual statement.

    And you're okay with that? The point isn't that it is unusual, the point is that it is anti-democratic and contrary to the interests of the general population.

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)