Slashdot Mirror
White House Asks FISA Court To Ignore 2nd Circuit's Decision On Bulk Surveillance
schwit1 sends news that the Obama Administration has made a legal request to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court to ignore a ruling from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals making bulk surveillance illegal. The government says it's doing so to create an "orderly transition" between now and the beginning of USA Freedom Act provisions in six months. Their legal argument is that the Circuit Court's rulings are only binding for lower courts — the FISA court is secretive and separated from the normal legal process, so it doesn't necessarily fit in the normal court hierarchy.
ACLU deputy legal director Jameel Jaffer said, "While the FISA court isn’t formally bound by the second circuit’s ruling, it will certainly have to grapple with the second circuit’s interpretation of the ‘relevance’ requirement. The [court] will also have to consider whether Congress effectively adopted the second circuit’s interpretation of the relevance requirement when it passed the USA Freedom Act." The issue is further complicated because the Circuit Court did not actually issue an injunction against bulk surveillance, deferring instead to the congressional debate already underway about the Patriot Act and USA Freedom Act.
ACLU deputy legal director Jameel Jaffer said, "While the FISA court isn’t formally bound by the second circuit’s ruling, it will certainly have to grapple with the second circuit’s interpretation of the ‘relevance’ requirement. The [court] will also have to consider whether Congress effectively adopted the second circuit’s interpretation of the relevance requirement when it passed the USA Freedom Act." The issue is further complicated because the Circuit Court did not actually issue an injunction against bulk surveillance, deferring instead to the congressional debate already underway about the Patriot Act and USA Freedom Act.
Go Fuck. Yourselves.
How long until it's the last straw?
I know Obama is quite used to ignoring the law, but that's not how things work. Fuck off.
How can a judge accept the president asking him to ignore the law?
Why isn't this guy in prison yet?
it would be a shame if something....
That's all folks!
Doesn't mean it's right.
Or legal.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The FISA Court is not under the jurisdiction of the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeal. In the Federal Court system, the Supreme Court is at the top. Immediately below the Supreme Court are the Courts of Appeal for the different circuits which cover different geographical regions of the country. Also sitting directly below the Supreme Court are the Federal Circuit Court of Appeal which handles specialized cases like patent cases, and the FISA court, which handles cases whose national security implications require secrecy. Below the various Circuit Courts of Appeal are the district courts, which are the lowest courts in the federal system.
So, the FISA court, sort of sits beside the 2nd Circuit court, not below or above it. Only the Supreme Court can direct how the FISA court must interpret the law. That's not to say that the FISA court can't be guided by opinions in other circuits. Courts of appeal frequently look to opinions in other Circuit courts of Appeal for guidance on cases involving issues they haven't decided before, but they are not bound to follow opinions in other Circuits.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Lincolnesque. Is it really as dire as a civil war?
It's the government making cold war on the population. And winning. IOW, the american people are losing. Losers.
the Obama Administration has made a legal request to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court to ignore a ruling from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals making bulk surveillance illegal.
Translation: "We don't like the law; don't apply it to us."
Next time the courts decide against me I can just go and ask them to ignore their ruling. Heh. Who'd have thought it's that easy, I didn't even get the idea!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Remember when Dick Cheney declared himself to be his own branch of government so he wasn't subject to law?
America is not "supposed" to be about what the politicians want. It's what the American people want. We have spoken, and the "politicians" don't want to listen... making them traitors to the American people and therein, traitors to America.
Someone please tell me again this is because of Bush. Please.
Let me guess, Cheney's secretly wearing blackface and everyone in the Justice department is falling for it, right?
In a court of law, issues are argued by two sides before a neutral magistrate.
This FISA bullshit is nothing but a rubber-stamp circle jerk for government lawbreakers to pretend that they're on the up-and-up.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The perplexing thing about all of this "Obama == Hitler" spin is that (1) his main field before he got into politics was constitutional law (he taught it at the U. of Chicago), and (2) he's only got about 18 months left on his term of office. Does it make sense that he would push for greater domestic spying powers for the waning months of his own administration, when those same powers will accrue to whomever succeeds him for their full 4 or 8 years? Could there be something else going on?
The FISA Court has apparently never heard of the Constitution.
Now why is Obama coming off like a puppet in these discussion and exactly how much dirt does the NSA and CIA have on him, to keep him so tightly on the leash from day one or is that day three
What the hell is wrong with you guys??
Obama has shown his true color to all of us, not one day, not one year, but for more than FIVE MOTHERFUCKING YEARS ALREADY and you guys STILL having that faint hope that, deep inside, Obama has a conscience?
Obama needs no leash from NSA / CIA / FBI, Obama is *ONE OF THEM*, and has been their *MOST VALUED SUPPORTER* all the while!!
Obama doesn't have even one single iota of conscience in him. The guy is a egoistical maniac. All he wants is POWER, and he intends to RULE OVER ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING
Please man, please open up your fucking eyes and look at Obama for what he actually is, not what you hope he to be
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Their legal argument is that the Circuit Court's rulings are only binding for lower courts â" the FISA court is secretive and separated from the normal legal process, so it doesn't necessarily fit in the normal court hierarchy.
If it's not part of the judiciary, it's not really part of the government then, right?
In a previous article today on slashdot, it says, "Sixteen House members wrote to the FBI (PDF), pointing out that the president had just signed a reform ending the bulk collection of phone records."
Now in this one he is telling the FISA Court that they should ignore a court's ruling against the same thing. I guess the right hand really doesn't know what the left is doing. . . .
OK, I'll give you an answer to your implied question -- it's "the boy who cried wolf syndrome". Considering that he was "a kenyan, muslim, socialist" who famously "palled around with terrorists" and was bent on destroying America from the day he was inaugurated (actually the day it started looking like he would win the election), I have to examine the criticisms of the man with a skeptical eye and deeply consider the source as to whether there is a trace of truth in any accusations as most of the time there wasn't. The actual failures of this administration have been so overshadowed by the crazed lies and bullshit slung around starting in about 2007 that they have desensitized us to the real problems. Even in this case, which does look really bad, it's no worse than the previous administration (notice I didn't say "any better" either). So anyone bitching now had better have a history of it going back to the original passing of the Patriot Act in 2001. So you can blame the nuts who went berserk at Obama's election for the teflon he wears now.
I don't get, what you don't get about the idea of extortion and it's basis and, that it implies corruption. It just seems that many statements seem to have very little political benefit for him and just make him look publicly much worse and should ego be the driver for the original corruption as it normally is, then ego will also seek to not damage the public image of the egoist. So less likely to be one of them and more likely to be controlled by them but inherently that control by others was accepted in order to gain corrupt benefit. The corrupt egoist politician will inherently seek to make themselves look great and will refuse to take actions that destroy their public image, when they do so, it is a sign that others are controlling some of their actions are making use of the discovered corruption in order to force actions the ego of the politician would prefer not to take because it damages their image.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
no more secret courts. death to tyrants.
First, there is no contradiction of law that I can see. Two courts at the same level are divided and the Administration has weighed in- pretty much what you would expect them to do. When courts are divided either the matter resolves itself because time passes and it becomes moot or SCOTUS gets involved (if they accept the case). I am not sure what happens when two courts on the same level disagree and SCOTUS does not accept the case, but rest assured someone does, a good legal scholar could lay it al out for you.
I once saw a sign in a lawyers office that read "the more I get to know my fellow lawyers, the more I like my dog. " For me personally the more I understand how the law is SUPPOSED to work (the actual edifice that's in place), the more I think our system of courts and laws and is a fine working machine on par with any computer chip or other advanced technology. The reason I think this is because it accumulates the efforts of everyone who's ever labored in the system to make it better. It's an atypical form of advanced technology in that regard.
Sure bad laws get passed (the drug laws) and worse, much worse, laws and the sytem get abused (the kid who spent 3 years at Rikers without ever being convicted of anything and who recently committed suicide).. but the system itself independent of any particular bad actor or actors or bad laws, the system of adjudication and evidentiary rules and procedures and as it written down to be executed, is spectacular and a real achievement.
The law is the ony thing that keeps us from becoming Somolia or MadMax or some tinpot dictatorship. I am not saying it's not abused, I am saying it's not fundamentally broken and more it's somethnig to be proud of , even if it can always be made better or be made to work more as designed.
Got that. In the U.S.A. there are some which are above and beyond the law.
Don't worry, on this side of the pond it's the same, and we're working on perfecting that.
Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me ... you can't get fooled again!
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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Typical response from the government. If something such as a law or the constitution gets in your way, just ignore it and pretend it does not exist. Better yet, just sign an Executive Order which trumps laws and the constitution.
Joe Biden is a square shooter. Joe Biden for 2016!
FISA court is unconstitutional and completely illegal. Ignore anything they say, and the day they send me a "secret letter" demanding something, is the day I will publish it all over the place.
So what you're saying is that if Obama never had any wingnut critics, you'd believe what the facts are telling you about his motivation?
Whether any of his critics are radicals or wingnuts is irrelevant to the question as to whether Obama favors big corporations, mass surveillance, and bypassing the courts and Congress to execute his policies.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
And so FISA court has become the fifth power of the state.
Obama is bad, true.
But every single candidate from the Republican and Libertarian parties are worse. Which is scares the shit out of me.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
You failure is to believe that your vote counts. Once you understand a small group of families rule over Europe, America, China, and Russia all is clear. He does what he is told. He does what is best for him and his family. Your family, your needs, your wants do not enter into his decision making.
"No more warrantless wiretaps if you element me." -Barrack Obama, 2008
"Fuck off, I'm president and I do what I want!" -Barrack Obama, 2015
Now you are just being stupid.
Beware the wood elf!!!