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Microsoft's Skype Drops Modern App In Favour of Old-Fashioned Win32 App
mikejuk writes: Microsoft, after putting a lot of effort into persuading us that Universal Apps are the way of the future, pulls the plug on Skype modern app, to leave just the desktop version. Skype is one of Microsoft's flagship products and it has been available as a desktop Win32 app and as a Modern/Metro/WinRT app for some time. You would think that Skype would support Universal Apps, there are few enough of them — but no. According to the Skype blog: 'Starting on July 7, we're updating PC users of the Windows modern application to the Windows desktop application, and retiring the modern application.' Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 Universal Apps as the development platform for now and the future, but its Skype team have just disagreed big time. If Microsoft can't get behind the plan why should developers? (Also at Windows Central and VentureBeat.)
This seems particularly weird given that Microsoft has devices where (with, no doubt, a painful list of 'write once, port everywhere' caveats) 'Modern' is the option. Windows RT was the first stab, though it dragged along win32 for Office; but it's dead and irrelevant. Windows Phone, though, unless also headed for the chopping block, is presumably still going to have Skype, and it isn't slated to get win32 any time soon.
Is the dogfood really so dreadful that they'd terminate the metro version on every device that has full windows available, despite the presence/absence of touchscreen, design favoring conventional or tablet-style use, and so on?
The limited APIs and strict sand-boxing on universal apps limits the amount of actually useful software you can write for it. "Universal" really means lowest common denominator between our phone and desktop os. If all you care about running on your computer is cut the rope and angry birds then its fine. If you want an actual full featured computer... not so much.
I don't see nowhere in the article where it says win32. Maybe you talking about win64?
Microsoft really doesn't know what the hell it is doing and bounces around from .NET to Surface RT to HTML5 to Universal Apps and it is really difficult to want to deal with whatever new bad idea they come up with $THIS_YEAR.
Win32 is rock solid, can be cross-compiled, emulated with Wine and runs on all post-2000 versions of Windows.
Microsoft knows if it were ever to screw up Win32 support, they'd be deader than a doornail in a New York minute.
Which is why Win32 is the one trustable platform.
The problem with Skype (vs damn near everything else) is that Skype needs to be usable on all platforms, and it's barely useable when you have Chrome set as default (it does something spectacularly stupid when Chrome is the default to enable auto-spellcheck, but makes it burn a CPU core non-stop,) especially with ads (because the ads cause skype to burn multiple CPU cores every time the ad cycles.)
Like I hate blocking ads out of spite, but Skype (which means I end up blocking Microsoft's ads) I have to, otherwise it's a miserably useless piece of trash, and I'd get people to switch to something lighter... but that would mean dedicating more technical effort. Microsoft is only able to keep Skype relevant for now because of that switching inertia. Combining it with "Microsoft accounts" and importing MSN did it a disservice. Because now that increased the potential infection vectors from "just skype" to "every damn microsoft thing you use"...
I have to remain logged out of everything related to microsoft accounts to use Skype. It's a pain in the ass.
Hopefully Microsoft sees how painfully stupid it is and guts the ads from Skype to keep people from jumping ship.
in the article.
Universal Apps have a permission system, like Android. That means that, with a little tinkering, an app like Skype can be configured to work properly yet still have no privacy-violating access to parts of your computer it has no business being in.
But a full-blown Win32 app isn't restricted in the same way - or at least, preventing it from behaving maliciously is a lot harder. As a datamining tool, a Win32 app is far, far more valuable than an app.
In case people have forgotten, the Skype team was working with the NSA long before Microsoft acquired them. This decision should surprise no one.
Universal Apps are good for tablet-oriented apps that would be useful on a desktop. They could, with a bit of tweaking, be used to allow some phone apps to run on the desktop, but the form factor demands UI differences that make them awkward to use with desktop conventions. The problem isn't making the applications portable. That's the easy part. The hard part is dealing with the fact that phones and tablets demand a different type of UI than a desktop PC to deal with the drastic difference in physical screen size and available types of I/O.
I'm wondering how long it'll take for the Android version of Skype to disappear...
It's not a big deal. More likely that the blogger is making it a more significant than it really is.
A. Skype isn't going away: New EULA coming up in August 1st to bring it in-line with Win 10.
B. Windows Phone Skype won't go away either.
C. It's only the RT version that's being canned. No big deal and there will probably be other RT stuff canned.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
It sounds like the proposed move of ms office to dotnet.
Shifting an established codebase to another just for the sake of policy is rarely worth the pain.
My experience with this app from the Windows Store is that it did not start when I logged in. I am one of those ecohipsters that unplugs the machine when not in use! So, it is a hassle to use, and is not a bright idea, if I may add. Even my Samsung TV does logs in automatically to Skype if told so! That is a lifesaver for old people.
It's Microsoft's biggest asset (as well as client/server development platforms). Just because somebody else seems to be doing well in the mobile space, why does Microsoft see a need to translate that into ruining one of the good things going for them? If Microsoft trashes the desktop PC they do so at their peril. And I say this as an avid Mac user at home and Win8/.NET/SQL Server developer at work. The vast majority of 5 x 7 workers are NOT going to be productive with a tablet. They ARE going to be productive on "traditional" desktop computers (whether they use apps in a web browser all day or not).
Skype has a completely difference UI for windows desktop, metro, Mac OS, iOS on iPad, iOS on iPhone, Android (last time I checked) and Linux. All different!!! And probably none is good. Why would they care about universal apps?
Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
nobody wants a fullscreen IM app. that's the problem.
for a while they were pushing win8/8.1 users to the metro version, to tie them to the appstore.
on a related note the adware they delivered to shill windows 10 update is crashing on multiple people.. http://answers.microsoft.com/e...
and on an even more related note, skype fails shutting down consistently on my windows 8.1 pc. the desktop version that is, crashes every time on shutdown. EVERY SINGLE TIME. it has been updated multiple times without fix.
seriously, nobody doing serious work inside microsoft even was using the metro skype. it's impossible to integrate it into any kind of workflow.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Or, to use the politically correct term... "Login Challenged"
It was tied to the windows login and could not be changed on the fly to another Skype login id, which made it pretty much useless for those of us who have several Skype ID's, one for work and another that we've always had for personal calls.
Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 Universal Apps as the development platform for now and the future, but its Skype team have just disagreed big time. If Microsoft can't get behind the plan why should developers?
No, they Skype team did not disagree. Windows 8 Skype for the "Modern UI" was not coded as a universal app, but using the original limited windows 8 API's. Universal apps are those that share a common .NET code base between devices but use different layout for the the screen based on size, orientation and input capabilities.
This is just another example of the slow motion development of the coming complexity collapse. You just cannot keep layering on more and more complexity year after year. Eventually things just don't work.
E Proelio Veritas.
Funny how Microsoft can still try and sell developers on apps when they themselves are moving away from them. I think in the end Microsoft already knows it made a mistake doing Windows 8 for a tablet interface. It should have done a totally stand alone OS for devices like the Surface and even Windows phones. I already get the feeling Windows 10 is not going to help matters in a big way. Trying to be a operating systems on all devices is just full of compromises. It would be like OS X trying to integrate into the iPad or iPhone.
As countless messaging and VOIP show, Android can do this, so why does Microsoft fail at it?
Maybe they can finally make it looks readable on HiDPI (192dpi) screens like my 2880x1620 laptop. The font pixelation is so horrible you can't use the chat at all.
Morphing Software
Take a look at Office, their cash cow for a zillion years now. But even today, Powerpoint supports CTRL-Q to exit while Excel and Word don't. And us old-timers remember that all pre 2003 (or maybe 2000) Office suites were abysmal at copypasting text from one app to another. Font, font size, color, etc. would get completely bollixed up.
So no surprise that Microskype is going this way.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
i disassembled their latest binary, its the original encrypted skype.exe with a wrapper bundling their extra crap (ads/ui) the core is still the mysterious Skype blob
i suspect MS dont have the source and cannot obtain it, presumably that wasn't part of the deal when they bought it.
Maybe nobody is using the metro app because it forces you to link your existing skype Id to a Microsoft account, making it tough to have multiple skype id's for personal and work, or just tying it up in general.
Yes, I have a /. Uid but am too lazy to get it to work on my MID.
On a tablet, I want to "Snap an App" and have messaging running on 1/4 of the screen and whatever else I was doing (browsing the web, browsing Stack Exchange, etc.) on the other 3/4.
Truth, no matter what bs you spew, is fact -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
APK
P.S.=> It truly makes me LAUGH when I see noobz spewing the "latest marketing buzzwords & terms" like "irrelevant" & calling anyone not buying shit sandwich "new hotness" bs, "luddites" OUT OF FRUSTRATION @ having wasted your time + efforts on "the new hotness" that REALLY "old & busted" BEFORE it can even get outta the gate to begin, lol... apk
A "modern" application can access Xbox 360 game controllers through XInput. It cannot access generic gamepads through DirectInput because "modern" applications are forbidden to link to DirectInput, and it cannot access generic gamepads through the HumanInterfaceDevice API because HID_USAGE_PAGE_GENERIC is explicitly blocked "to prevent conflict with other Windows APIs and OS behavior."
Even though Microsoft owns its; Skype still runs seperately, they are heavily Debian.
See subject & this http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
* Their "new leaders" (I suspect dimwit marketers actually) are dolts - the results prove it for me, especially in this very article... what else does? Oh, stupid 'marketing jedi mind tricks' (that only work on the WEAK MINDED that can't think for themselves & have to be "accepted by the crowd" b.s.) of calling users who prefer what they're used to "luddites" & saying "but it's 'the NEW HOTNESS'" that's proving itself to be "old & busted" even IN THE EYES OF ITS CREATOR right outta the gate, lol!
APK
P.S.=> In effect, it's NOT SMART, in *trying* to be SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT in an area YOU'RE NOT STRONG IN or THE LEADER, period... this merely proves it for me, & the rest? See that link above! apk
"Read 'em & weep" -> http://www.embarcadero.com/pro...
APK
P.S.=> As far as 64-bit on Windows? I can personally PROVE it does that too, with actual proof, right here -> http://start64.com/index.php?o...
... apk
How about fixing the IP exploit already? Also give us the ability to change our font color... You know.. basic IM functionality?
As it is, Trillian is a far better IM client, and that's saying a lot considering it pester you to buy it every 5 minutes.
So, basically one of Microsoft's "flagship" products is yet again a product they didn't create, and which even they can't make one of their universal (cr)app things work in a manner which is useful.
And, once again, Microsoft buys where it can't build, and utterly fails to push it in the direction they've decreed is the future.
I wonder if Microsoft understands how idiotic they look when they can't make their own dog food, or make changes to products they bought without fucking it up.
If they "flagship" product is saying they can't/won't support the universal (cr)app, do they realistically think anybody wants to use this?
My Windows 8.1 desktop has a bunch of these native apps, and they're garbage completely not suitable for a desktop, because they all want to be full screen with the big stupid romper room buttons.
Maybe this stuff makes sense on a tablet, but on a 23" monitor with no touch screen capability, they look like they were designed by an idiot.
It seems like Microsoft goes on the inertia of what they can buy, but the stuff they try to "innovate" (by which I mean copy from successful products) they fall flat on their faces.
Has Microsoft actually innovated any features of a desktop/mobile OS in the last years which had any value? Because if the Metro interface I had to work so hard to get rid of, they really haven't.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
by the limitations of accommodating the iOS and web versions.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I see this posted a lot. In the xkcd scenario, the intent is that if standard #15 successfully competes standards #3, #4, and #9 out of the market, there are only 12 completing standards. Add one, remove three, and the net effect is that there are two fewer to deal with day to day.
[Linux is like] going to live with a bunch of really smart people in a Utopian society where everyone has a fully up-to-date giant mansion or penthouse (your choice), for free.
Which is out of the cable company's reach and on the north side of a hill so you can't get satellite either. GNU/Linux is fine if you use a computer for work, not so much if you also use it for entertainment.
So long as Linux Mint even boots on a particular piece of hardware. As of Windows 10, Microsoft is allowing x86 PC and motherboard makers to ship chipsets that lack any means for the machine's owner to control whether Secure Boot is used or whether third-party public keys can be added.
Some designer who cares more about fashion than functionality comes up with a "new" idea
Management decides to vote for fashion over usability, and decides to force it on users who hate it and don't want it
At first, they called it "metro", a perfectly fine name
Then, they decided that they needed to strong-arm the users a bit more, so they renamed it "modern"
This is a classic use of a name as propaganda to make users believe that "modern" is better, and the alternative is "obsolete"
On the desktop, the metro interface sucks and blows at the same time
Either developers at Microsoft are from another planet or the managers there are the biggest bunch of incompetent idiots in any major corporation. The latter makes more sense though. **** rises to the top.
That is news to me.
What are you talking about?
DVD and BD movies, for one. Is there a widely available player for those on GNU/Linux that is lawful in SlashdotMedia's home country?
Amazon Prime works in Linux, Google Play works in Linux, Netflix and Hulu work in Linux.
I've found plenty of songs that are unavailable on Google Play and unavailable on Amazon Music but available on iTunes. (Last time I tried, "Bück dich" by Rammstein was among them.) And I seem to remember movies hitting iTunes long before Netflix.
For those games that don't run natively in Linux you have Wine and DOSbox that will get a good deal more working.
Some games not ported to GNU/Linux use anti-cheat means such as GFWL or Punkbuster that fail if anything but genuine Microsoft system files are present, or copy authentication means that rely on obscure behaviors of the NT kernel. Even if those aren't present, game publishers don't warrant performance in Wine.
You have plenty of audio and video editors
For audio editing I use Audacity. What video editor on GNU/Linux is any good?
See subject: On TRULY "irrelevant" new bs http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
Mainly since it's proving itself to be TRULY IRRELEVANT & IN THE EYES OF ITS CREATOR PER THIS ARTICLE NO LESS & that it's NOT TAKING OFF @ all in the eyes of the usership because it's "new stupid", period... & OUTRIGHT REMOVED/DEAD (totally irrelevant).
* Don't like that?
Argue with the fact I just put out & tell us another one, ok??
Lastly - See subject & this too, noobz http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... & THANKS FOR MAKING MY POINT THAT WAY TOO, noob foolz!
APK
P.S.=> It makes me LAUGH hugely, it really does - then what does it even more is when they call old & proven tools "for luddites", lol, well - at least they work & do the job RIGHT in the eyes of those that matter most - users... apk
my pc fits in my jeans pocket. it has a full office suite. called raspberry pi. i can run ANY os on it . including one i wrote myself.
fuck redmond.
As of Windows 10, Microsoft is allowing x86 PC and motherboard makers to [lock down] Secure Boot
BFD. That's a device that will never be in my presence.
Until you can no longer buy a laptop without it at a reasonable price when yours breaks. Just as the laptop industry as a whole chose to phase out 10 inch laptops at the end of 2012 in favor of tablets with detachable keyboards, it could choose to block free operating systems in that size class as well.
VLC?
I said lawful in the United States. Free software such as VLC likely infringes patents related to DVD and BD and likely qualifies as a circumvention device under 17 USC 1201(a) and/or (b). See cases dating back to Universal v. Reimerdes. Or have I missed a case to the contrary?
Here's the thing: Windows 8 and 10 can't do this either.
Which is why companies selling new DVD and BD drives for home PCs tend to bundle basic playing software licensed by the respective patent holders and DRM system authorities. You pay the royalty through the drive maker when you buy the drive. The one problem is that the bundled software is for Windows, not for GNU/Linux.
This is NOT a technical problem.
Problems with GNU/Linux that are not technical problems still must be solved in order to increase adoption.
You use Windows.Gaming.Input
For one thing, Windows.Gaming.Input appears to require Windows 10 and will not work on Windows 8.1. For another, does Windows.Gaming.Input work with both Xbox 360/Xbox One gamepads and generic HID gamepads, or does it work only with Xbox 360/Xbox One gamepads?
I don't miss DOS. in DOS, everything was full screen and there was no multitasking.
... game machine.
.... while adding "giffy" support would make some people insanely happy and drive others insane - NO ONE uses the full screen crap.
Forcing full screen on all apps is going back to DOS days, not forward to a multi-use multi-tasking computer capable of supporting a user in multiple ways instead of just a single-task
because that was pretty close to all DOS was good for.
Anyone who wants skype to be a full screen app needs their brain examined, and then needs to find a job where only skype is the tool they use, and never ever write a single document of any kind. ever.
PS: we use skype at my office quite heavily. Usually passing around document references
What is a reasonable price for a laptop that does not do what I want?
If all major manufacturers make their base models unreasonable by applying boot lockdown, then I guess you're fine with the price of a reasonable laptop suddenly skyrocketing from $500 to $2,500 on grounds that only an established business would ever have a legitimate need for a laptop that can boot a non-Microsoft operating system.
"The split in Windows apps created by the launch of Windows 8 still persists today and Microsoft is currently trying to fix this huge blunder by creating a true Windows 10 Universal App that can run on desktop, phone and mobile"
What we need is something like a write-once run-anywhere application that is Operating System and Hardware agnostic. All is required is a unique runtime module. One wonders why the supreme software architects of the known universe hasn't come up with such an idea up to now.
Microsoft has gone all beast in the last few days. Someone (perhaps old Bill) has gone old skool and dropped something into the water. They have been pushing their crap a lot lately, insisting that they aren't going to get along with anyone else, being as incompatible as possible. But PC's aren't ruling the roost anymore, and neither is Redmond. Smart phones aren't what they do, but this was one way they could be useful on smart phones. But stick to the PC, and its one more reason to dump windows phone (like you didn't have enough reasons before).
....because the trolls that preach here know everything. Did they study hard or were they just born as naturally gifted second guessers and trolls. I mean they all run very successful businesses themselves, so we better listen to them.
I don't know what it is and I'm pretty sure I don't need it.
Do you realise the original skype blog article says the universal version will be available later that year ?
With their reversal on Metro does this mean they will also go back to Skype's original language: Delphi?
They could do worse: native iOS, Android, OSX, and Windows all from one code base. No transcoding, leaner memory management (compared to C#). Plus we know it works.