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Bank's IT Failure Loses 600,000 Payments

An anonymous reader writes: The Royal Bank of Scotland had an IT glitch last night that prevented some 600,000 payments from reaching the accounts of its customers. This included bill payments, wages, tax credits, and benefits payments. RBS apologized for the delay, and claims to have fixed the underlying problem. They hope to have all the missing payments sorted by the weekend. This isn't the first major IT screwup for RBS; in 2012, the company was fined £56 million after a software upgrade prevented about 6.5 million customers from logging into their accounts.

19 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. Bank admits error? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What madness is this??

    When my bank makes a mistake, they blame me and penalize me for the problem, then when I complain, they charge me for investigating their error.

    1. Re:Bank admits error? by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe you should switch banks. I can't speak for the UK, but it never ceases to astound me how many people whine about banking in the United States when there are thousands of small community banks you could be doing business with. It's a tough industry and the little guys are facing setbacks on a daily basis, but they're still there if people are willing to look for and do business with them.

      In the day and age of remote deposit there's no reason to do business with a large national bank. I get waived ATM fees worldwide, no account fees of any sort, and competitive loan and deposit rates, all from a little regional bank that you've probably never heard of unless you're from my small hometown.

      For the life of me I don't understand why Chase, Capital One, or Bank of America have any retail customers at all. They bend people over on fees, structure your transactions to obtain yet more fees, and generally do all sorts of nefarious things while offering no real advantage over their smaller competitors.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Bank admits error? by cyberchondriac · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't be remotely shocked if the businesses that didn't receive payments still find it reasonable to ascribe late penalties to their customers and say "Hey, it wasn't our fault your payments were late".

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    3. Re:Bank admits error? by gmack · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They probably will, but the last time a banking error caused a missed payment and penalties, I took the notice from my landlord to my bank and they gave me a refund for the amount and a letter of apology addressed to my landlord..

      I'm guessing that cost cutting RBS did by laying off their staff and rehiring everyone in India is going to cost them dearly. This isn't their first major outage since they did that.

    4. Re:Bank admits error? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be remotely shocked if the businesses that didn't receive payments still find it reasonable to ascribe late penalties to their customers and say "Hey, it wasn't our fault your payments were late".

      You're right, and the question is - why should they? I mean, wouldn't you be pissed off if your workplace couldn't pay you on time because of this? It was their bank being the problem, but your creditors don't care that you didn't get paid today. Etc. etc.

      And while credit cards not working or ATMs and such for 3 days may not be a "big issue", for some people, it really is a huge issue. It can mean basically starving if they can't get the money for food that day, or maybe a preauthorized payment suddenly doesn't go through on their credit card.

      In the lower rungs of society, bank problems can really be huge issues.

  2. Deliberate mismanagement by ikoleverhate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since the taxpayer took a large stake in RBS, it has been deliberately run into the ground to lower it's share price ready to be sold back into private ownership. It ends up looking like a windfall for the current chancellor, when in fact it's transferred a big pile of taxpayer's money into private hands while wrecking a financial institution. Banksters.

    1. Re:Deliberate mismanagement by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't be an ass. Its not in any employees interest including the CEO to run it into the ground when a lot of them are on performance related pay. And its certainly not in the governments interest.

      I suggest you put your tin foil hat away. This is just plain old fashioned incompetance.

    2. Re:Deliberate mismanagement by clonehappy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wrong, it's not a conspiracy if it's false. A conspiracy is two or more parties working together for an illegal, unethical, or otherwise undesirable means. A conspiracy is NOT the incoherent ramblings of a wild-eyed mental patient. That's what we call a crackpot theory.

      However, the powerful elites and controlled media outlets have worked tirelessly for decades to further the narrative that anyone who accuses someone else of a conspiracy is a wild-eyed mental patient. When, based on the simple definition of the word conspiracy, everyone can admit that they surely happen every single day in every country on Earth.

      Hence, the "conspiracy theory" becoming a label that can be easily applied to anyone who is calling out a group of two or more people who are up to no good and immediately discredit them. For the sociopaths that run the world, this is the best thing that could have ever happened to them. Anyone who can see that 5+5=10 is now a nutter! How convenient for them!

    3. Re:Deliberate mismanagement by kencurry · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't be an ass. Its not in any employees interest including the CEO to run it into the ground when a lot of them are on performance related pay. And its certainly not in the governments interest.

      I suggest you put your tin foil hat away. This is just plain old fashioned incompetance.

      Incompetence - a bad day when you spell that word wrong.

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    4. Re:Deliberate mismanagement by sjames · · Score: 2

      Greed knows no bounds.

  3. Michael Bolton by Major+Blud · · Score: 3, Funny

    He must have misplaced a decimal point. He always screws up some mundane detail.

    --
    If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
  4. Trimming the fat by Raannndy · · Score: 2

    Never worked for RBS, so I'm not claiming to have any knowledge into their IT dept, but I've seen this trend in IT locally too many times. Execs don't see the need paying top dollar for IT staff and wind up getting people that do "just enough." That's when snafus like this one happen, and it costs the company more in the long run than paying top $$ for good talent.

  5. Is someone trying to replace COBOL? by Viol8 · · Score: 2

    I wonder if some lead IT whizz kid decided it would be really "kool" and look good on his CV to replace all that crufty old cobol running on the cobweb covered mainframe in the corner with this months latest hot language?

    I'm exaggerating a bit, but it does seem to me having worked in the dev industry for > 20 years that a lot of the younger devs really don't understand the serious reasons behind the phrase If It Ain't Broke... If you mention it they either think you're being ironic or just too old to "get it". Sadly its them who don't get it but they're too arrogant/naive to realise it.

  6. Too big to care. by nimbius · · Score: 2

    I experienced the same chicanery with my credit union recently. A system upgrade took everything (offices, ATM's, network transactions, credit card access and online sites) offline for 3 days. On monday the issues still werent resolved. Credit cards didnt work, online transfers failed, networks that normally recognized the payment cards suddenly didnt, and the on-hold wait time ballooned to nearly 40 minutes. My direct deposits stopped working due to the fact that my accounts had, without explanation, been suffixed with an additional integer. No one cared.

    No one cared for a very important reason: there are no repercussions. Banks dont fail in america as im sure they dont fail in europe. theyre secured by the FDIC which raids and reassigns bank ownership quickly and quietly to prevent runs because the very concept of a bank operates on the principle of too big to fail. During the 2008 financial crisis hundreds of banks across the country failed, but were quietly never reported and instead gobbled up by larger institutions. most of the staff, management, and customers just changed letterhead. no one lost a job and the old bank fines became a pittance; a frosting the larger banks kindly paid.

    so if a run happened after 600,000 payments were bungled here in the states, the bank manager would keep his job and just assume a new name like 'ally bank.'

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:Too big to care. by bws111 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is just nonsense. Banks certainly can and do fail, and the FDIC does NOTHING to protect them. The FDIC is protecting the DEPOSITORS (ie, you). If a bank fails, the owners of the bank have lost their investment. The owners do not get to keep their investment just because the assets of the bank were bought by someone else. There is no reason employees or customers of a bank should suffer because the owners installed bad management. If the new owners keep that same bad management then they risk losing their investment too.

  7. I hope it wasn't my stuff... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    I installed some transaction processing software at RBS in the late 1990s. Here's hoping they retired it a while back...I haven't heard from these guys in over a decade.

  8. They chose the cheaper, worse IT system by johnmrowe · · Score: 2

    By far the most interesting statement on this comes from Iain Martin at the Daily Telegraph, who says that at the time RBS (a fairly small bank) took over the much-larger and more established NatWest bank:

    > His team worked out quickly that the NatWest system was superior to the RBS computer system.... Then they crunched the numbers and
    > confirmed that sticking with plan A and migrating NatWest's customers onto RBS's inferior and cheaper to run system would save more money.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100248741/why-the-rbs-computer-keeps-saying-no/

    The rest, as they say, is history...

  9. Happens all the time. by quietwalker · · Score: 3, Informative

    So, I used to write banking software for a living, and that included being in the damage control team when things went south. Which they did. A lot. Which were brought to the technical staff's attention, without fail, every friday at 4 PM - but I digress.

    This isn't really a big deal.

    This sort of thing happens on almost a daily basis. I'd say that 1 in every 500 banks "loses" a day's transactions each week. From hardware failure to networking problems, to someone entering bad data to simple bugs in the software (usually data-dependent and hard to source), and even an occasional overwrite from a backup. Something breaks.

    Once we had an FI lie about their data center setup - it wasn't redundant, offsite, certified, or even a datacenter. They just had some machines running in their basement. Imagine our surprise when they called up wanting us to (remotely) fix their servers which were under 6 feet of water during a flood. ... again, I digress.

    The thing about these transactions is they're not really lost. Nothing really goes missing.

    See, all financial software is super keen on accounting. I don't mean that in a strictly 'add up the numbers' way, but in an auditing way. There are logs upon logs. Using your ATM card to withdraw $20 probably generates around, oh, I dunno, 30-40 log messages, depending on how it's routed. There's a log of the transmission and response in each node along the way, using a standardized protocol. It's a severe pain in the butt, but even if a system goes down forever, we can regenerate those logs from the other systems. It's a great deal of effort, especially to preserve the sequence order, and it's tedious, but it can be done.

    This could easily account for the initial delay in fixing things.

    Not only that, all these sorts of systems are very keen on sequence-order processing, so if it's just the case that the end of day processing (clearance) system went down/had a bug/etc and none of the transactions were finalized, then they'll just stack up. Once they get that system up again, it'll start processing them again. It might take longer due to a large backload, but it'll eventually complete.

    98% of the time, the only people that notice are companies waiting on a payroll to go out, and most of them are happy enough to accept the financial institution's admission of fault. For a day or two at least. Why this one made the paper, I can't tell you. Probably a customer was savvy enough with social media and decided to burn the bank. I guess they should just be happy the public in general doesn't realize how many problems and how much actual work goes into making banking seem reliable and secure.

  10. Re: H1B visas by rapiddescent · · Score: 2

    Not quite. A large Indian outsourcer won a large part of work to maintain the CA7 schedule. Anyone has worked at a bank knows that the batch schedule is somewhat mystical and was put together by guys who had been at the bank for 20 yrs - replacing them with bright, but fresh out of uni, offshore outsourcers was a large part of the cause of the 2012 outage during an upgrade.

    This outage hit the NatWest batches. The NatWest batches are far bigger than the RBS, Ulster(s) and IoM/Courts and are the first to run over and the hardest to rerun before the next batch window. So it looks like to me that a file was blocked causing the backlog (and no one noticed quick enough).