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Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs
cold fjord writes: Writing at Wired, Bruce Schneier states that he believes that China and Russia actually do have the Snowden documents, but that the path by which they got them may be different than what has been reported: "... The vulnerability is not Snowden; it's everyone who has access to the files. I've handled some of the Snowden documents myself, and even though I'm a paranoid cryptographer, I know how difficult it is to maintain perfect security. It's been open season on the computers of the journalists Snowden shared documents with since this story broke in July 2013. And while they have been taking extraordinary pains to secure those computers, it's almost certainly not enough to keep out the world's intelligence services. .... Which brings me to the second potential source of these documents to foreign intelligence agencies: the US and UK governments themselves. I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside."
Wow, more speculation under the guise of actual reporting. Almost definitely? Sounds like a bad romantic comedy.
If China and Russia stole the docs from NSA, then he should refer to them as the NSA docs. MSM will take this out of context as damning evidence against Snowden.
"I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside."
As a computer security professional I would be most interested in your thoughts on what were these files even doing on these networked computers
I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside.I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside.
Uh, yeah. This was obvious from the beginning. If it was that easy for Snowden to grab all of those files without anyone noticing anything until it was too late, how many other bazillions of employees, contractors, sysadmins, etc etc etc etc also had similar access.
The Chinese & Russians (and others--Brits, Israelis, what have you) are actively trying to subvert all these thousands of folks.
It's really not rocket science, or even computer science. More, do you have the right contact. With so many potential contacts it becomes almost inevitable.
And that's without even getting into technical break-ins--which also seem very, very possible given the lax security that the Snowden affair demonstrates. If Snowden can get unauthorized access to all those files, then it's possible for others to do so as well.
keep them locked up and off the fucking internet.
Give up on the conspiracy bullshit. He is just trying to excuse what Snowden did. Snowden had physical access to the network and still had to social engineer passwords.
Years ago there was story about Russian intelligence services using typewriters and putting sensitive data on paper documents to avoid digital security breeches.
Very clever, these Russians.
What the hell does "almost definitely" mean? Is it like near miss?
Yup, reads like Bruce is saying China got the Snowden documents, NOT (as is actually the case) that he's saying they have access to the same documents without Snowden.
This is why cuntfuck wanted to take this on: so he can control the heading, the bit that turns up most visibly in websearches.
Control the first impression, you capture the mind.
Here is the key point Schneier's post makes:
To headline this story without including some reference to China and Russia having penetrated NSA networks is to imply Schneier is saying Snowden provided China and Russia with information they did not have already. It is either sloppy or intentionally misleading. The headline could have been "Schneier: Chinese and Russian Spies Probably Had Snowden Docs Before Snowden."
it may now be time to deregister from slashdot.
our 'favorite' bootlicker gets a submission
Oh noes... an article was accepted by someone you disagree with and now you just want to go home. BTW whose is the groupthink bootlicker here i wonder?
"I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside."
If Russia and China had the files before Snowden took them then they are in no meaningful way "Snowden files". They are merely a set of documents that may, or may not, overlap a portion of Snowden's files. By repeating your opinion that Russia and China have them (apparently without having to decrypt them, if they received them separately from Snowden) you are bolstering the narrative that Snowden has done damage to the government and the people of the US rather than exposing the damage done by the government of the US to the people of the US and the world.
Well done, sir.
I'm fine with cold fjord getting on the front page. I don't agree with him most of the time, but that doesn't have any bearing on the quality of his submission.
except for when there is a lie of omission.
headline says that x and y 'almost definitely' (huh?) have the snowden docs. but it leaves out that bruce believes that x and y had the docs (and not 'the docs' but info that can be found in those docs, plus probably a shitload MORE that snowden didn't get!) aside from and apart from ed snowden. ie, this is not about snowden and how x and y have more advantage now. they always had this info, according to bruce (or speculating by bruce).
therefore, the meaning is quite different between bruce's article and what CF is saying and also leaving out.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
In fact snowden may have inadvertantly given them cover, now they can act on the intelligence in the files they stole from the NSA directly without revealing that they powned the NSA networks because the world thinks that snowden did it.
Does that really matter?
The NSA is more concerned with the dirty laundry being airedbagainst Americans, rather than what foreign intelligence services have compromised their firewalls. Absurd to say the least.
Yep it is.... Former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger managed to pull out some classified documents obtained from the National Archives..... http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Much like The US/UK let friendly ships be sunk to prevent it from being known that they had broken Enigma. With the knowledge it was broken elsewhere, they can claim they broke into the Snowden files, not the NSA files, when the reality is the opposite.
Learn to love Alaska
and, supposedly, the russians are returning to using type-writers instead of computers, for their secret memos and spy schtuff
Talking about typewriters ... China recently executed a typist who leaked sensitive information to foreign spy (or spies)
That only goes to show that there always exist the possibilities of leakage no matter which route it takes
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
My ass is more accurate than the media. It also has no incentive to spin any truth. So sayeth my ass.
As long as you're fine with equivalent submissions from other sources, like some stooge from North Korea.
I thought Slashdot knew what ad hominem attacks were and how to avoid them by judging content rather than messenger.
I'm fine with submissions from anyone if they're relevant to news for nerds or stuff that matters.
There was no suggestion he was a problem, in fact i belive he is a hero too, i was just pointing out that other goverment actors may not be using him or the people with access to his trove as a source of inteligence, but as cover for activities they have already undertaken, as bruce has implied.
Indeed. And that amply demonstrates why universal surveillance is an extreme problem: The data gathered cannot be secured effectively. For example, even if the NSA does not do industrial espionage on it themselves (which is doubtful), then China and Russia can steal the data and mine it for relevant findings. Or if the NSA does not use it to pressure and manipulate politicians and public figures (again doubtful), then others can do so after stealing the data.
The concepts of privacy and secrecy are important, because when it comes right down to it, everybody and every company has things to hide and can be harmed seriously if they become known to the wrong people.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I see the spin-doctors are at work here too. Try harder, shill.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Why don't you check out Wired's title and get back to us with an update of your theory?
Changing the title as you suggest would mislead people. Bruce is intellectually honest enough to state other possibilities for what has happened despite what he believes. And to be clear, he doesn't really have any evidence for his belief. There are a number of reasons to believe that things didn't unfold as Bruce suggests.
You have once again made a post with a significant gap between reality and your views.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
No need to read further than the poster's ID
Korma: Good
you are now accepting articles from cold fjord? it may now be time to deregister from slashdot.
our 'favorite' bootlicker gets a submission. this is not a good sign; but then again, dice has been ruining slashdot for quite a while, now.
Slashdot has put 121 of my stories on the front page now, and they've been doing it for 5 years. I've submitted stories on many different topics. I believe this story is my first accepted submission. My posts go back many years before that. Does that scare you? (5 years? Hmmm ... that seems to predate Snowden's arrival on the scene. Am I psychic?)
why CF is wants us to read bruce's article, though, is a mystery to me. CF is NOT a fan of snowden and yet this article defends snowden.
something seems a bit off, here.
Something is "a bit off"? Maybe you can figure it out. In your dwelling it is highly likely that there is something which is highly useful for this investigation. It is an artifact of human technology useful for helping to determine various facts. Some even attribute almost mystic powers to it as it reveals facts that would otherwise be unavailable to the human eye. But the revelations of this human technology are best approached with an open mind, a searching eye, and wisdom. This piece of technology is called a "mirror," and you should spend a little time in front of one. I regret that it may be a futile exercise for you since you are likely to struggle with two of the three qualities necessary for it to be effective. Your mind seems made up, and new facts don't seem to help much.
See you around, Ahab.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
"Well, you were wrong"
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
It's useful to keep in mind there's two layers to the Snowden-betrayal array of claims.
- There's the claims that he did damage.
- there's the underlaying claim that this proves that he did wrong.
In fact whenever a whistleblower comes out, there will be some damage in some areas. The same applies to journalism. Whenever you expose wrongdoings or questionable practices from those in charge it can be argued this helps the enemy, even if only by tarring the image of the government. But I think the main point is, it should be considered an acceptable cost of transparency of governance. Transparency has been embedded in the US constitution 200 years ago for a reason. Mostly, those accusing Snowden don't understand that reason, or see no reason to bother with it. Transparency means that to some extent the governing still represent the governed(although you need to close the feedbackloop to really achieve that).
So yes, I think the claims that Snowden damaged the US foreign policy are wildly out of proportion, but I also think that as long as some precautions were taken to limit damage done, then it's acceptable. That should be the general attitude towards whistleblowers: that some damage due to disclosures is acceptable, worth it.
we (many, not just me) simply do not trust your motives.
you HAVE been called out and people know you for what you are.
deal. you made your bed, now lie in it.
as for slash taking your submissions, that speaks more against slash, I guess; but I suppose they are LOOKING for contentious click-bait and so this is why they welcome your submissions.
and so, my respect for slash is lower, still. so, you hang out here, I'll go over to the Other Site(tm) and perhaps that's a good way to work it.
slashdot is now yours. enjoy yourself. you and dice are meant for each other.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
So in stealing an unprecedented trove of millions of Top Secret documents Snowden has empowered adversaries of the US to act on things they already had, which they wouldn't have been in a position to do if Snowden hadn't stole the documents he did. Snowden - the gift that keeps on giving to the adversaries and enemies of freedom and the West.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Look Mommy two trolls are fighting each other. I wonder which Anonymous Coward will win?!
Of course Bruce would say that. He's obviously been hacked and is trying to deflect the blame onto the NSA.
The most dangerous drug
I think the people who suggest Russia or China has somehow gotten some "amazing secrets" from Snowden need to check some Wikileaks document dumps about how the 3rd party contractors are selling this data.
I was going to make a great quip with the name of the company, but Google is giving me nothing but popular results right now. Couldn't find the right terms to "NSA independent contractor." It told me the wages were up 25% however, so now is the time to sell out -- but with Patriotism.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
I'm sure I replied to this but must have failed to submit it properly or something.
In short, hiring a set designer is a gross symptom of a mindset of appearance over function to such an extent that a security risk and PR failure if it leaks overwhelms any positive outcome. It's wandering into "heck of a job" horse judge territory in terms of demonstrating someone is way out of their depth.
Second, the Navy trek thing is backwards. The Navy found it interesting that Trek sets had been inspired by submarine and other operations rooms from WWII up until the 1960s. Those vertical transparent charts that look cool in Trek are descended from manual methods of finding vessels by sonar. From what's been declassified computers have been doing all that stuff on screens since the 1970s so subs don't look like that any more. The navy inspired Trek, the navy then said "that's cool", but they were not inspired by Trek themselves - such a thing is ridiculous bullshit spouted by fans who want to feel important.
The last thing - Snowden was an external contractor. The trust level should have been very very low in such a situation - massive fuckup. Such auditing is fairly pointless in such a situation where they should never have so much trust in the first place, because they just want the cash and not the core values of whatever org they are contracting to. Contractors will rip you off in a variety of ways so there should be structures in place to limit the damage, because no matter what an audit tells you one of them will fuck you around for their own benefit if you look the other way long enough.