Ask Slashdot: Getting My Wife Back Into Programming After Long Maternity Leave?

An anonymous reader writes: My wife has been on a maternity leave for three years, now. She is starting to think about refreshing her coding skills and looking for a job. Before, she worked as a Java developer for around two years doing mostly Java Enterprise stuff. However, she is not very eager to go back to coding. I think she has the right mental skills to be a developer, but she is just not very passionate about coding or IT in general. On the other hand, it's relatively easier to find a job in IT than starting a new career.

We live in Spain, and with the current economic situation, the market for software developers is not great — but it's definitely better than other jobs. I there anything else she might do, ideally Java (but could be anything IT related) that would be easier and more fun than the typical Java Enterprise stuff, while also giving her a good change to find a decent job? (I'm a Java developer myself with many years of experience but mostly doing boring Java Enterprise stuff.)

Comments

Why force her to do something she doesn't want to?

[krotscheck]

It feels like you're trying to push her into a career she doesn't really want to be in. If I was you, I'd respect her wishes and instead support her while she finds something she's passionate about.

Project Management or Business Analyst

[ranton]

Two great careers for software developers who don't really like writing software are project management and business analyst. Both are very necessary in almost any IT group, and having software development experience will be an asset in both. Analysts that can write SQL and fully understand object modeling are rare and valuable, as are project managers who understand the software development life cycle from the viewpoint of developers.

Re:Project Management or Business Analyst

[swillden]

+1

Not to be sexist, but most women prefer jobs that include more interaction with people and less time spent in solo problem solving, so it's not terribly surprising that she does't love coding. This isn't to say there aren't women who really like coding, or even introverted women who find working with people all day to be unpleasant. There are all kinds... but on average my observation is that women prefer more human interaction.

So, assuming that your wife falls into that category, there are lots of roles in and around software development that are more people-focused. Project management requires an additional set of skills, both people skills and management skills, but it's eminently learnable, and having a technical background is very valuable -- as long as it doesn't cause her to second-guess what the developers are telling her (always a risk with PMs, and even more with those whose technical background is shallower than they think it is. There's a tendency to assume that everything they don't know how to do is easy.)

Business Analyst is another good one. It, again, requires some additional skills she probably doesn't have but can learn. Industry knowledge tends to be important, but most companies are okay with analysts learning that context on the job. She also needs to learn how to gather and document requirements. A technical background is useful there because good requirements need quite a bit more precision than most non-technical people are used to. There's also a risk; formerly-technical BAs have a tendency to overspecify. An important skill for this role which isn't so easy to learn is writing. Good BAs are excellent writers, able to concisely and accurately boil complex issues down to simple statements.

Another option that might be excellent if she can swing it is Systems or Application Architect. Companies generally want experienced, senior developers to move into these roles, but smart but less-experienced people can do it as well. Architects take the business requirements and convert them into high-level technical plans/architectures. Architects tend to spend less time interacting with people than PMs or BAs, but still quite a bit since they provide the primary interface between the technical and business teams. Architects need to have good technical skills and good "taste", meaning a good feel for what sorts of structures are easy to build, easy to maintain and flexible, and for how to intelligently trade those issues off. They also need to be good at translating technical issues into language the business people can understand. Honestly I expect that your wife probably doesn't have the depth of experience needed to make a good architect, but I thought I'd throw it out.

Another that might be good if she's a good writer and enjoys writing is technical writing. Good tech writers have greater need for writing skill than they do technical skill, but the latter is very valuable because it enables them to more quickly and accurately understand the information that needs to be documented.

In smaller companies a lot of these roles get mixed and combined with other business roles, so another good option is to look for a position that isn't necessarily directly related to software development, but could benefit from having a deeply IT-literate person.

Finally, the option that I've long thought I'd take if I ever got tired of writing code is the law. It's a lot of additional training, but I think there is a deep and growing need for attorneys who understand technology. This is especially true in the areas of patent and copyright law, but I think it applies in many areas. Of course, the law may not have any attraction whatsoever for your wife.

Whatever, I'd really encourage her to take the time to figure out what she wants to do, and do that, rather than settling for something she doesn't really like. We so much of our lives working that it's really a waste to spend it doing something we don't like.

Pretty much exactly what my wife did

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife was out of the programming workforce for about twenty years, and worried that her FORTRAN skills were no longer needed :-)

I encouraged her to take some Java classes, she liked it a lot, found an interesting job and several years later is loving it.

The thing is, do the research to find an *interesting* job -- yeah, it may be just "Java Enterprise stuff", but if it's an interesting project, and something you believe in, with good people, it's worth doing. My wife's team is a crazy bunch, and she enjoys their interactions (and telling me the wild stories) a lot.

She's been able to learn a lot of useful side technologies (XSLT, Databases, basic web stuff, etc.) so she'll be able to find a new job if the rumors of them moving the project she's on several hundred miles away pan out.

Anyway, with you working, she doesn't have to settle for the "first available" job, look around a lot, interview a bunch (if nothing else, to hone interviewing skills).

Good luck to you both!

To answer your question

[rfengr]

"but she is just not very passionate about coding or IT in general" I think you can answer it yourself.

Re:To answer your question

[Ravaldy]

I'm pretty sure there's people that work in jobs they aren't passionate about but do it to keep afloat.

Go find something you are passionate about

[zfalcon]

If you don't enjoy programming or technology, go find something else you are interested in. All the good programmers and IT people I've met have enjoyed what they do. The ones that don't are usually dragging down the rest of the team.

Re: Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes the reality of needing to eat and have housing supercede what people are passionate about. He's not asking for marital advice, he's asking for options hat she might enjoy more that will still put food on the table.

"Not eager"

[mi]

However, she is not very eager to go back to coding.

I see another "poster girl" raising awareness of the "pay inequality" in the making...

What does she WANT to do?

[damn_registrars]

You said what she doesn't want to do, but gave no indication of what she wants to do. There may be a not-terribly-difficult way to get from programming to what she wants to do, but without knowing what that is it is impossible to say.

Manage Outsourcing

[bill_mcgonigle]

You listed a bunch of strengths:
1) she has J2EE experience
2) she lives in Spain where the developer job market sucks
3) she has the talent
4) she'd like to move up to a better job

So, how about she goes and finds un/under-employed local programmers, sets up a syndicate, and manages outsourcing jobs for enterprises in areas where the labor market is tight?

That will gain her marketable sales and management skills which she can then parlay into better career opportunities. Maybe even sell the company once it's successful.

I'm assuming she can speak English about as well as you can, which is plenty good (I can't tell if you're native or not).

Here's the thing that bothers me most about your post, though: she's of child-bearing age, so I'll assume under 40, and you say doing IT is better than picking up a new career now. Don't fool yourself - she'll be working another 40 years (unless the AI's take over) and so she's less than 1/3rd of the way into her career. If you love her, you'll want her to be happy for the next 40 years, and you'll support her in finding/creating something that supports her passions and can pay the bills. So, if she really hates IT, ignore what I wrote above and work hard to help her find her purpose.

Don't do it

[Brownstar]

First answer why does she want to go back to work? Is it because your family needs a second income, is it because she's bored at home and being a full time mother is not what she wants to do, something different, maybe she's looking for part time work. All of these are equally valid options, but before she decides to do something, she should understand why, to ensure that she's actually fulfilling those goals.

Unless your family absolutely needs the extra money, and there is no option for any other employment why try to have her go into programming?

She only had 2 years experience to begin with, so she's still an entry level developer. Basically that means going back to programming might as well be entering a new career as well.

If she doesn't enjoy or want to be a developer it's more likely she's going to be very dissatisfied and not fulfilled.

My suggestion would be to have her apply for a number of different types of jobs. Some that fulfill the reasons that she wants to go back into the work force that could be built into a career that she wants to be in, and maybe, developer positions as a last resort.

Systems Analyst / Doc Writer / Project Manager

[Aero77]

The traditional career forks for developers are the obvious options for someone with coding skills, but not coding desire. Someone often acts as an interface between the software developers and the users of that software. This is a path that allows her to use her old skills, develop new skills, and gives her an option to move into a more generic career later.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[danbob999]

how do you know they only had one kid during those three years?

She's lucky to be able to jump back in!

[ErichTheRed]

I guess things really are different in Europe with respect to employment. I understand Spain is having economic troubles now, but you are very lucky your wife has the choice. In the US, most women who take time off to take care of children are branded unemployable, and often treated worse than a non-mother with a long-term gap in their employment.

It's a legitimate concern for my wife and I. She has a good job that pays well, but is very inflexible and involves a long commute. My oldest kid is going to be entering school next year, and the younger one is only 2 years behind that. I would love for her to have the choice to stay home and work a more flexible job or just take care of the kids. The problem is, once she pulls that trigger and decides to leave, getting comparable employment again is extremely hard. We could get by on one income, but frankly having the financial cushion allows us to actually save, and enjoy life at the same time. Without that second income, there would be some pretty deep cuts since we live in an expensive area and have other high fixed costs. So yes, we've definitely talked about it and are both coming to the same conclusion -- that leaving is a one-way choice and it would severely reduce our retirement savings, etc. Not that she won't eventually do it...the sad thing is that it's a permanent reduction in income.

Whether she wants to go back to coding, or do something different, she should be happy she has this choice. If she doesn't like development, a systems analyst or PM would be a good choice. An analyst with half a clue on how some of the stuff she's specifying works is a huge plus.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[phantomfive]

It feels like you're trying to push her into a career she doesn't really want to be in. If I was you, I'd respect her wishes and instead support her while she finds something she's passionate about.

Let's be honest, writing enterprise Java is enough to kill anyone's passion. That stuff sucks your soul out until you make it to architect level (then you spend your time sucking other people's soul out).

She should find a job that interests her more (while lets be honest, work is called work because it's not fun). Then, if that job happens to be embedded programming, she get a raspberry pi and work with it for a while. After a couple months she should be more than proficient enough to find a job in embedded.

In any case look through job postings until she finds something interesting. Once again, work is generally not interesting.

the break isn't a big deal, the lack of passion is

[Anonymous Coward]

I got back into programming after a 7 year hiatus during which I went to law school and practiced law. I spent about 3 months writing apps to refresh my skills and then took the first job I got offered a few weeks after posting my resume. I am now back to senior developer status after 2 years, making good money. I was 8 years in to my career before I went back to school and I continued to do development work here and there (ie personal programming projects) while I was out of the industry.

The big problem here is your wife's lack of passion. If someone doesn't want to code, you're fighting a losing battle. It takes at least 5-6 years of intensive development experience before you start becoming genuinely good at coding. You need to see lots of problems and solve them. You need to fuck up at least a few times and learn from your mistakes. You need to overengineer something by accident at least once and learn from your wasted effort. You need to overcommit to a project and burn out. You need to make assumptions and then get burned when they turn into defects because it turns out you aren't a mind reader. You need to work with lots of developers that are better than you and learn new ways of doing things.

Suffering through that pain and humiliation for years takes a real passion for programming. If you aren't passionate about it, you aren't going to keep coming back to it again and again.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[kwbauer]

Or you can look at the reverse... Those of us having children are the only ones helping you have all the social welfare programs (pensions and Social Security, etc.) after you stop working.

So, yes, I am getting a raw deal because I am raising kids that will contribute to me and to you and you are getting a free ride by having no kids.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[AmiMoJo]

Ask Slashdot was useful once, but in the last few years it's just become an opportunity to abuse the questioner. Okay, sometimes the questions are really dumb, but how about we try to assume good faith and not expect them to write an essay covering every possible objection first? You know, kinda like Stack Exchange or something.

In fact, screw it, Slashdot is dying. I recommend asking the same question on Stack Exchange, you will get more helpful answers.

Sole provider?

[PatientZero]

What part of

She is starting to think about refreshing her coding skills and looking for a job. . . . However, she is not very eager to go back to coding.

makes you think she wants her husband to be the sole provider? Is there something wrong with wanting a rewarding career that you're passionate about?

Why are you (not she) posting this question?

[karlandtanya]

That's not rhetorical. She isn't posting this; you are, and there's a reason.

You've already established that your wife doesn't want a 'job' in IT.
Go listen to her and find out what she wants. If she wants your help, help her.

"...it's relatively easier to find a job in IT than starting a new career..."
comes off a "IT folks and my wife can handle jobs, not careers".

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[MightyYar]

I don't know the woman, but calling someone who has been chasing a toddler around for 3 years "lazy" is probably why. It might not be skilled work, but it is exhausting.

Re:Of For Fucks Sake

[thechemic]

Slashdot.org - News for lost souls and drifters in life who can't decide what to do with themselves.

Android?

[Hallow]

How about Android? Use all those mad Java skills, but skip all the "Enterprise" BS. Might be fun.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because being a full time mom is a perfectly valid option? And also, for many people going to work instead of staying home with the kids is the lazy option.

It is the economy

[Rumagent]

I do not know you financial situation at all. But my wife and I were in a similar situation a couple of years ago. And it basically boils down to two things:

1) You are parents. That means sometimes doing things you do not particularly like to make sure that your kids will have a reasonably stable upbringing - aka you can pay for stuff.

2) Regardless of what you do, it is easier to get the next job if you are employed.

No matter how you end up dealing with your situation, remember your wife. Help her, listen to her and be there. In a year or two you will have moved on, and this will just be another story to annoy your kids with.

Best of luck!

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[Rasperin]

I can't speak for either of those professions, but I stayed home for about 6months with my two toddlers (honestly easier than one because they play together), and trust me, it isn't easy. If you actually parent/clean/cook and don't just screw around watching tv and facebooking all day it is pretty constant physical and mental labor. By the end of my run, I was ready to get back to programming. On top of that it really is a thankless job with criticism when you are having a bad day. At least when you are having a bad day programming, you just open up slashdot and slack for a few hours. Do that when you are at home and the house is trashed. Then it becomes mentally debilitating because it's a job that is never done and if you are consistently doing it 24/7 it all goes to hell.

In regards to coal miner or roofer, again I can't speak to those professions, I can say as a person who worked in construction for 5 years during school, I'd rather be doing that then chasing kids around (if only it was just that).

Oh and nap time is the time to get shit done, it aint rest time. There are no breaks. And when you are the SAHP your the primary care giver and the other person disconnects so instead of working 40hours a week like your spouse you work essentially 7 16hour days.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[ThatsDrDangerToYou]

Gaa, your post was a PTSD trigger for me... make it stop! Oh wait, kids are grown. Ah, nevermind.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[halltk1983]

So that nest egg... is it invested into stocks that require workers younger than you? Is it invested into government bonds which require taxpayers younger than you? Is it invested into banks which require people taking and paying loans who are younger than you? Are you going to spend them at stores staffed by people younger than you, with things made by people younger than you, and delivered by people younger than you? Without young'uns being born at a pretty consistent rate, you'd see some piss poor returns on your investment.

Re:Why force her to do something she doesn't want

[Oligonicella]

"Give a woman a child" - You're an asshole. A rational man doesn't give his wife a child, they share one. My daughter was the best thing that ever happened to me and I don't regret any 'inconvenience'. I pity any partner you end up with because you obviously only see them as that wallet you referred to.

Re:Python

[Wdomburg]

Well, yes, annoyed is an alternative to bored.

Re: Why force her to do something she doesn't wan

[Totenglocke]

He's an idiot for not wanting to flush his life down the toilet? Having kids means MASSIVE unnecessary expenses (current average for middle class families in the US is ~ $250,000 PER KID - and that's NOT including college!) , no more free time, less sleep, a worse relationship (this is well documented by researchers and we even touched on it in Economics classes in college / grad school - for "normal" people who do the "born, go to school, get a job, get married, pop out some brats, slave away until retirement, die" routine have a U shaped curve for their level of happiness - it drops once the first kid is born and doesn't get back to pre-children levels until after the last kid is out of the house and you're retired), etc. Once you factor in the massive overpopulation of the planet as well, there is no rational reason to have kids.