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Short Sleepers Might Be Benefiting From a DNA Mutation
An anonymous reader writes: As someone definitely not in that category, I envy people who can get along with little sleep. I have sometimes secretly believed they're exaggerating. Maybe not. The BBC reports on DNA research that says there might be a genetic basis for the very low sleep needs that some people have. The article says that UC-San Francisco researchers "compared the genome of different family members. They discovered a tiny mutation in a gene called DEC2 that was present in those who were short-sleepers, but not in members of the family who had normal length sleep, nor in 250 unrelated volunteers. When the team bred mice to express this same mutation, the rodents also slept less but performed just as well as regular mice when given physical and cognitive tasks." If it's stuck in the genes, though, I guess I'll still want more hours in a row if I don't want to start hallucinating. So how many hours do you need? I seem to get along with six or seven, but sleep past noon on the occasional weekend day. Update: 07/09 19:24 GMT by T : The latest Freakonomics podcast has some interesting things to say about the economics of sleep, and hours-per-night is a big part of it.
I really can't sleep more than 6 hours. And I usually wake up automatically (before my alarm clock) around 4AM. I've been this way for decades (back in high school I could sleep in).
If I get less than 5 then I suffer that day. It seems like my sleep needs are just being met, and if I fall behind at all then I feel like crap that day and need to go to bed early that night (and then I just wake up earlier the following morning, but rested).
I perform best, by far, before noon, but that could be the nature of the work (mind grinding).
I do enjoy a nap in the afternoon when I can get it (Saturday afternoon sometimes). There's actually not much nicer than a good afternoon nap.
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Disagree. I was in the military so the early mornings and short sleep schedule were part of the job. I never got used to it even after years.
I've been a different sleeper for years. I used to think I was an insomniac; I would have trouble with not being ready for bed, then would lay there for hours, then finally get a few hours of sleep as I thought I *had* to get 8 hours to be healthy. I averaged between 3 and 5 hours of sleep a night for many years. It was cyclical though; sometimes it would be multiple weeks of 3, then multiple weeks of 5. I used to get upset that I wouldn't get 8 hours of sleep ever. I was still dreaming, and waking up recharged and refreshed.
I've learned over time that it's almost impossible for me to get 8 hours of sleep unless I've worked for multiple days in a row. I've done data center moves or had a crisis with production where I was up for somewhere around 48 hours or more, but when I went to sleep I would only sleep 8 hours before my body would wake me. I would then sleep again "for the night" in a shorter range of time (something like 16 hours of being up rather 20), but then I'd re-regulate after that.
I do kind of wish I slept more though. I don't think my brain feels as awake as it could if I had slept more.
What this sort of study can't tell you is if those mice actually do something useful with their additional wakefulness. Look for escape routes? Solve puzzles for treats?
Or just go round and round on the wheel.
Think about it for a moment. Careful what you ask for....
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
16hrs of napping a day plus athletic abilities of felines? Plus aren't we all more happy dreaming anyway? There was one of scenes in Inception that group of sleep drug subjects preferred dream reality from awake one... what's reality anyway...
I discovered that when I tried to sleep the eight that was supposedly required, I would either wake up at 0300 and not be able to get back to sleep for an hour and a half, or I'd sleepwalk. I read a book a few decades back that suggested that by gradually decreasing your nightly sleeping time, you could find the amount of sleep you really needed (it was some decades back, sorry I can't remember the title now) and I tried what it suggested. Found that I'd wake up decently rested at 7 if I went to bed at 2.
On weekends, I wake up at 8 without the alarm clock. Weekdays, even holidays and when I forget the alarm clock, I'm up at 7. Habit.
My wife hates it.
Short sleep might restore the muscles and other organs and prep them for another day. But "doing physical and cognitive tests" as well as well slept mice says nothing about the long term memory of such short sleepers.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Like most abilities, getting only a few hours of sleep and feeling fine the next day is an acquired skill.
Disagree. I'm fairly disciplined in my sleeping habits these days but if I get less than 7-8 hours I am absolutely going to feel it and my performance will degrade some. I won't be a vegetable but I won't be feeling fine either.
Yes, it requires time, discipline and willpower, but blaming your genes for being a lazy bum is not an excuse.
Good sleep hygiene requires some discipline but no amount of discipline is going to let me get away with sleeping only 4-6 hours per night. Some people clearly can including some in my family but speaking only for myself I cannot get away with that little sleep for more than a day or two and I feel the effects immediately. I know for a fact that most people need more sleep than just a few hours and no amount of discipline will change this.
Like most abilities, getting only a few hours of sleep and feeling fine the next day is an acquired skill. Yes, it requires time, discipline and willpower, but blaming your genes for being a lazy bum is not an excuse.
This would seem to be refuted by all of the literature I've ever read on the subject, as well as my own experience. I used my discipline and willpower to sleep less, and all it did was make me a low-functioning zombie at work. After a few months, I had to give up and get my 8 hours every night.
But even assuming that you can train yourself to be a more efficient sleeper, there must be a limit to that as well, which may vary by person. So some people may "enjoy" 8 hours but only "need" 5, and others may "enjoy" 10 and "need" 8.
I will go along with the idea that you can get better sleep quality and thus require less total sleep, but there is still a wide genetic variation in the amount of good-quality sleep that particular individuals need. Even if I get perfect-quality sleep, I still need 8 hours. I wish I didn't but at this point in my life I know better than to get less. Based on what I've read, there are other people who only need 6 hours or less of perfect-quality sleep, and I can never be like them. I'm no expert on the subject, but I've never read anything that seriously claims you can train yourself to need less sleep (as opposed to increasing the quality of your sleep).
The military has studied this quite a bit, and there has been no way to achieve a statistically significant reduction in sleep requirements over long term studies.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
1) Pick some rare advantageous trait (e.g. short sleepers, super multitaskers)
2) Post a story about it on Slashdot
3) Observe the large number of posters who claim to have the trait
Optionally:
4) Cross-correlate these posters against list of posters claiming to possess a different rare advantageous trait in previous Slashdot discussions
#DeleteChrome
I need about 1-2 more hours than I get.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
I was amazed to learn that before the advent of artificial lighting the common human sleep pattern the world over was to sleep in two ~4hr shifts with an hour or two break in between in the middle of the night. The commonality of this is evidenced partly by various allusions to it in literature--as if it were simple, common knowledge. Some articles mentioned that some people go to the doctor thinking they have a sleep disorder when they continually wake up in the middle of the night, only to learn that their body is simply reverting to its own natural sleep cycle.
Good science fiction story form 1993 by Nancy Kress about finding the genetic basis of the need for sleep. Among the ideas in the story is that sleep is only needed to dial back metabolism at night, thus conserving energy. Evolutionarily useful when calories are scarce -- not so much now. When the genetic need for sleep is removed, a group of super-productive people is created. Food for thought...
Sleeping is a very complex process, and the duration of sleep could be genetically altered by compressing various stages of sleep, e.g. making the transitions more efficient, etc.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
When I was young I definitely required a full 8 hours of sleep. For some strange reason, almost immediately after I had my first child (I'm male) I developed the super-human ability to function quite well on 3-5 hours of sleep. Three years later I'm gradually regressing and currently seeing the need for 5-6 hours of sleep.
4 - 5 hours, but sometimes I'll sleep 6-7. I kinda let my body dictate it's own rhythm and wake up when it tells me to (which kinda sucks because it typically alternates between 4:30am and 5:30am even though I don't need to be at work until 9am). So I wake up, catch up on my news in bed while I shake off the last bit of sleep then roll out of bed and do calisthenics. Shower, then walk into work. Because I have the time, so why not?
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...says the guy with an espresso machine on his desk.
It's been awhile since I saw it, but I was struck by one thing in particular. One of the researchers talked about a period of 4 hours during the sleep when participants usually could not remember dreaming, but apparently they were. They could be awakened during this time and recall their dreams. The researcher would also disturb the sleeper somehow without completely waking them up but it would still disrupt their sleep somehow. When the subjects woke up they believed they had gotten a good night's sleep and felt fine. But cognitive tests showed they were not operating at maximum potential.
Generally sleep is poorly understood, but it seems to be an almost universal phenomenon and need in the animal world. Muck with it at your risk.
In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice they're different. (Yogi Berra & A. Einstein)
Sounds more like it mostly comes down to *stimulants* - think how much more productive you'd be with crystal meth :P
I still think melatonin and serotonin are some of today's most underappreciated stimulants... All-natural, too.
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I had a similar discovery with kids, although I concluded it wasn't so much that I was functioning normally as I just didn't feel the pain or notice the fog anymore. As they've gotten older and I've started getting more sleep, that imperviousness to the discomfort of being short on sleep has disappeared again. (I can remember one night, rocking an angry child at 3 a.m. where I thought to myself, "I slept from 11 to 3, so that's 4 hours. Even if she takes forever to go back to sleep this is already a pretty good night!" Yes, I did immediately realize that sounded pretty absurd.)
Outside of the newborn months, I like 8 if I can get it, but 7 is just fine. 6 leaves me tired, and anything under 5 makes me feel foggy. One very occasional night of 5 isn't too big of a deal as long as I get rest the next night, but two in a row of less than 5 and I feel pretty wrecked.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Similar here. I usually get about 7 to 7.5 hours of sleep during weekdays, but I'm all in for 9 hours on weekdays if I can do it. Too much is a bad thing too, but 6 hours is just not nearly enough for me. I wonder what a long term study - something like 25 years- would reveal? Do people who "need" less sleep tend to age quicker, or become more susceptible to any autoimmune deficiencies, or cancer, etc.. ?
I believe those who say and live by the motto, "I'll sleep when I'm dead" will find themselves getting that sleep a little sooner than they anticpated.
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As an amateur athlete, I understand well the importance of getting enough quality sleep. The question I have here is, if you have this 'genetic mutation' and naturally sleep fewer hours, does your body fully recover, day-to-day, or are you perpetually feeling sleep-deprived regardless? To put it another way, is your body recovering/recharging/(re)building faster and more efficiently, therefore less need for sleep, or are you just incapable of sleeping 8-10 hours at a time? If it's the former, then I'd sign up to have my DNA resequenced to have this trait, if such a thing were actually possible.
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Sadly, not in my case. If not for those first 3-4 months I would probably have a second kid, but I really became an exhausted wreck until things got more regular and fell into a (mostly) once a night feeding schedule. Our coping mechanism at that point was that we traded nights to get up with him and I was only a zombie every other day at work instead of a constant zombie/a-hole.
The USA really needs to have much better maternity/paternity leave than we do. 2 weeks (burning through all my meager vacation) was not enough. My wife at least was able to get some cat-naps during the day, not so much for me (no, she didn't have it easier, but she did get more sleep from weeks 2-12). It is pretty darn hard to come home after working all day as a zombie and have to take over because your wife is an exhausted wreck, all knowing that the cycle won't have a break until the weekend.
I'm guessing you are fairly young compared with me if you have the flexibility to sleep odd schedules like that. I used to do all sorts of weird sleep experiments too but such things aren't really compatible with most jobs and family responsibilities. I know it's possible to do successfully do some very unusual sleep schedules but it's hard to reconcile those with societal expectations. My work hours aren't especially flexible and my wife would be pissed if I was asleep between 6-9pm every day. I'd basically never see her.
Sleep is interesting and I REALLY wish I could get away with sleeping less. I consider it 1/3 of my life utterly wasted but there isn't really much I can do about it.
I use different sleeping cycles.
During the workdays, from monday to friday, I sleep between 3 and 4 hours, but I meditate during 2 hours and I don't nap.
During the weekends, I sleep from 5 to 7 hours with some napping, because I meditate a lot less (probably 15 minutes).
Several years ago, I was sleeping 6-7 hours every night, but I was always tired.
I started meditation 4 years ago, and everything changed from this moment: I'm never tired, I listen to my body (no abuse), and I have a deep sense of joy.
Deep meditation is equivalent to sleep.