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Vancouver Area Teen Sentenced To 16 Months For Swatting
An anonymous reader writes: A 17-year-old from the Vancouver area in Canada has been sentenced to 16 months in youth custody and 8 months under supervision in the community after pleading guilty to 23 charges including criminal harassment, public mischief, extortion and uttering threats. The teenager was responsible for a number of swatting calls across the United States and Canada — mostly of female gamers. The judge told him, "It appears that when real life became too hard you retreated into the online world and became increasingly socially isolated. While you may think you enjoyed greater success in the online world, that success was an illusion. You were left with severely limited social skills and a significant educational deficit."
My sentence would have been life.
A life of swatting.
He'd know it's coming. Over and over again. He just would never know when. He'd be asleep at 3 AM, and BAM! Door kicked in, flashbangs detonated everywhere, guns pointed in his face.
He'd find it hilarious, I'm sure, whilst everyone's favorite tacticool occifers would no doubt appreciate the training exercise.
Please bear with me, I'm speaking from a US point of view.
I don't want to completely condemn anyone to not being able to get a job because of a felony over being "a really stupid kid". Everyone has stupid moments, but most people can learn from them.
I also don't want people who are un-rehabilitable released back into the general population.
The number of times this kid swatted other people leads me to believe that he falls into the latter of the two groups.
I do think that there are other side conversations about the militarization of SWAT teams that can be had as well, but that's not the focus of this story.
TL:DR: There's a boatload of moving parts to this, but the punishment doesn't (in my mind) match the crime.
"Hello, 911?"
Here we go again!
That's because you don't understand Canadian law. That is actually a fairly harsh term for a young offender in Canada.
The other option would have been moving him to adult court. That's a pretty big uphill battle for the prosecution, as they would have to prove how society would be better served potentially throwing him in jail until 27.
He's a stupid kid, and really needs to be treated as such.
Sounds like a very reasonable and level-headed judge, making him completely ineligible for appointment to a higher court.
I do think that there are other side conversations about the militarization of SWAT teams that can be had as well, but that's not the focus of this story.
Correct, but the militarization of SWAT and police in general SHOULD be the focus of the story. These little assholes wouldn't be swatting if it didn't evoke such a massive response from police.
THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
"pillow biters"
Muh Inclusiveness...
-- Counting backwards since 1984!
That's the textbook definition; he delights in the suffering of others.
He needs extensive mental evaluation and should probably be watched carefully once his sentence is up. These people are dangerous by their very nature.
What have you got against Linus Torvalds?
So despite the tens or hundreds of millions of gamers out there gaming away merrily without ever swatting anyone, you seize on one clearly disturbed and deeply dysfunctional psycho as evidence that the shrill goose-stepping SJW brigade are somehow justified in their hysterics, let alone needed? No thanks brownshirt, go back to tumblr, the population there is ignorant enough to put up with your huffed out bullshit.
Yea, Americans have NO conception of time whatsoever. Most of my countrymen would happily send somebody to prison for 10+ years for even minor offenses. Punch somebody while you are both drunk? 5 years. They have no idea how long 5 years, how insane a punishment is, how badly their lives will be permanently destroyed, how many friends and family they will lose, just how much time really costs somebody. 16 months during that developmental period is a HUGE chunk of his life. You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks, months if it hit you particularly hard. But 16 months in jail is basically making sure the rest of his life is seriously restricted and damaged. But for that many swattings? Sure. It fits. I even thought this one was a little light.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Treating stupid kids as stupid kids is far better than the zero-tolerance approach often used.
However, once they decide they want to commit adult crimes, they should have adult consequences. A felony conviction for swatting following someone for the rest of their life seems pretty fair.
"SJW" doesn't mean anybody who is for social justice. I'm for social justice! I want people to stop hating and harassing each other.
"SJW" is the term for those who do bad things in the name of social justice. They harass and threaten people who don't tow their very narrow definition of what is right. They become confrontational and angry if you so much as suggest they might be wrong about someone.
People who are for social justice? They're awesome.
Social Justice Warriors? They can be as bad as the guy this article is about.
You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks...
Unless you are fucking DEAD.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I'm Canadian, but cannot claim to speak for the country, only my own Canadian-derived viewpoints.
I, too, do not want to see someone capable of being rehabilitated denied the opportunity for a better life (ie: job, hobbies, freedom, personal fulfillment).
I, too, do not want people who are un-rehabilitable released back into the general population.
I, however, feel that I must give the court-appointed psychologists the same level of initial trust that I would extend to the courts in judging this fairly. Since I'm not a psychologist, I would choose to depend on the above experts determinations of the offender's mental state post-treatment (as I am presuming from other past experiences in the Canadian legal system that the offender will be subject to such treatments) to determine his future freedoms and limitations. As such, I cannot prejudge his fitness at this point.
I would agree there are many discussions that should be had about the relative militarization of the police.
TL:DR: Article light on specifics to relative ability of treatment for the offender, so I must rely on the determination of the courts.
PS: The commenting style is deliberate, but not intended as mocking. I mean to highlight the relatively small differences between sample USA and Canadian viewpoints that may aid a further discussion on the differences between the USA perception of justice and the Canadian viewpoint.
His problem isn't that he's a stupid kid, his problem is that he's a narcissist. That's a personality disorder, jail time isn't going to fix it. He needs to admit that he has a major personality problem (which, as it turns out, isn't all that common for a narcissist to do) and then seek help through therapy (also not all that common). If he doesn't take the steps necessary to back away from that cliff then no amount of jail will "rehabilitate" what is wrong with him.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Because swatting sounds a lot like attempted murder to me.
I work for nVidia.
Correct, but the militarization of SWAT and police in general SHOULD be the focus of the story. These little assholes wouldn't be swatting if it didn't evoke such a massive response from police.
Did you read the list of offenses this kid did? If you think he did all than just because SWAT teams react, and he is not the one that is primarily accountable.,., .well, I'll just have to assume you are the kid's mother.
I don't know all of the details, but 16 months seems like a slap on the wrist for a "prank" that can get people killed. Like, you know, in real life. For ever. No do-overs, no saved games.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks, months if it hit you particularly hard. But 16 months in jail is basically making sure the rest of his life is seriously restricted and damaged.
Really? Being the victim of SWATing seems like it could cause lifelong psychological damage - let alone the danger that you're sending HEAVILY ARMED people over to someone's house. I think 5 years would be a better sentence for him. Sounds like he's already pretty damaged anyway. "the judge noted a psychiatric and psychological assessment that she said painted a picture of a deeply troubled young person who is a high risk to reoffend. The report suggested the teen has minimized his crimes and blamed the victims, showed no remorse and was motivated in the pleasure the trouble he inflicted on his victims.The report described him as having an emerging narcissistic personality disorder."
SWATTING isn't a light offence. When you do this there is a very real possibility that someone will end up dead because a cop gets excited, or a homeowner is armed and decides to start shooting. This should be treated as a very serious crime, and if anyone is killed, the person doing the swatting needs to get a murder one charge slapped on them.
Moreover, this kid didn't do this once, but many times, demonstrating that this isn't a spur of the moment 'crime of passion', but that he possess a consistent and dangerous disregard for life. I am all for lighter sentencing for a lot of things, but this is something that you need to come down heavy on people for. Grafitti is stupid teenage hyjinx. SWATTING is really dangerous behavior.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I'm all for a massive reduction in police militarization and very nearly eliminating SWAT teams given how rarely they're used for what they were originally intended for. That being said, the problem with using this issue as a lever is that there will always be some fringe situation that calls for a swift armed reaction of some sort. These kids can literally say whatever they want, so there's always going to be a way to provoke a dangerous response as long as there's any conceivable situation that warrants that response. This is just one of those cases where there should be a panic button. It should be really difficult to hit and you should punish the living shit out of people who treat the panic button like it's a toy.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
I think both issue need to be addressed.
The severity of punishment for calling in fake hostage situations should be sever to act as a deterrent, but considerably more important is effective enforcement. People have to think that if they do this they will get caught. Otherwise even a death sentance won't actually be an effective deterrent.
Simultaneously, the police need to reign in SWAT protocols. It is completely unacceptable to be kicking in doors of innocent people, so much so that in the US it's even in the fucking Constitution that the cops need to get a warrant first. Now, figuring out how to desitngruish between genuine threats and fake ones without compromising respnce time in the real cases is a hard problem, but if the cops can't figure it out their only other choice should be to disband their SWAT teams.
16 months in prison will help him improve his social skills no end.
If you're going to "militarize" any part of the police force, the SWAT is the place to do it. Those teams exist specifically to deal with threats outside the normal tactical capabilities of law enforcement, which may include confrontations with well-armed gangs or home-grown crazies. In those instances, it make sense for the SWAT members (who are supposed to be trained to a level beyond your normal patrolman) to have a wider variety of options and hardware at there disposal.
Now, the militarization of the regular police force is something else entirely. Patrolman Krupke doesn't need an automatic rifle with gee-whiz optics and an up-armored assault vehicle just to patrol the neighborhood beat.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
Correct, but the militarization of SWAT
It was center stage for a bill Obama tried to pass recently (not sure if it passed as I didn't follow it)
and police in general SHOULD be the focus of the story
Both the offender and the authorities need to be the focus of the story. It's a two fold issue.
You can keep blaming the ashes for making a mess but the fire is what made the ashes in the first place. It's like blaming gun manufacturers for mass shootings. I'm not suggesting the authorities are innocent but the source is still the source of the fire. The authorities could take a very hard stance on this and say that unidentified individuals cannot initiate a SWAT call. Is there statistically a downside to such a hard stance?
Canadian SWAT isn't the same as US SWAT so there's 2 separate views of the same issue. Canadians still have a positive view of their authorities. It's not so much the case in the US.
These little assholes wouldn't be swatting if it didn't evoke such a massive response from police.
First off, he doesn't really know what the actual response is because he's not there to witness it. This kid has many other issues beside swatting so I doubt the lack of response from police would have changed his abuse behavior.
i wrote this to be snarky, but thinking about it more, I think this makes a lot of sense. the damage of the swatting is not a broken door. It's the shattered feeling of safety you feel in your own home. you used to feel safe sitting on your couch playing videogames. Now, at a very fundamental level, that feeling is gone. This can take years to overcome.
I hear this is similar to the damage from being raped. So... while it's illegal to sentence someone to be raped, for whatever reason it's not illegal to sentence him to a prison where everybody knows that people are raped every single day. America!
So I think we all agree. Just one night, it happens a few times, then he's out and can lead a productive life. Everybody wins!
The problem is like every cause its been taken over by the whack-a-doodles. Look at how MADD went from "We think you should call a cab when you've been drinking so you don't hurt anybody" (sensible and logical) to "Our ultimate goal is prohibition" (whack-a-doodle) or how PETA went from "We think food animals should be treated humanely" (sensible and logical) to "We'll call fish sea kittens and argue that germs should have the same rights as people!" (whack-a-doodle).
For those that think gamergate is about misogyny, or that social justice hasn't been taken over by the whack-a-doodles? I invite you to play a little game called "stormfront or social justice" where they simply remove the group being targeted and you have to choose whether it was written by a SJW or by a white supremacist. Congrats if you get even 50% correct because THAT is how whack-a-doodle the so called social justice "movement" has become, complete with calls for this or that group to be exterminated, this or that group should have their rights taken away, shit that would have sounded right at home at any Klan rally simply by changing the group.
So I'm sorry but "social justice" as a concept has been taken over, the sensible ones have been run out of the tent by ultra left wing racists that have total control of the platform.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
My only annoyance with the whole internet abuse counter-attack (Gamergate, etc.) is that those who were targeted by the abuse went and painted the entirety of the population of male gamers as sociopathic misogynists and giggled while the innocent were lumped in with that horrible stereotype.
Just like pre-internet days, the nerds get abused for being nerds.
This case is exactly what needs to be the standard response. (1) Someone reports abuse. (2) Investigation. (3) Abuser found. (4) Abuser tried and convicted. The end. No making a career based on accusing all male gamers or the entire video game industry or the entirety of "science" for the abuse of a few people perpetrated. Just report, investigate, find, convict, close the book.
We don't need social martyrs, we need good police work and good courts.
for you anon and all the canadians out there, know this: your justice system rocks! your judges write clear and often pithy case rulings. not so in the US, where tehy can be booooring. I'm not saying anything on the outcomes, just how you get there.
I'm 58 and grew up just outside of Phila and can remember the TV commercial, Do you know where your children are? Well I think those commercials should run again but just a little different. Do you know what your children are doing online behind that Closed bedroom doors? Just an Idea. My daughters has her PC in the main living room. No TVs or PC in bedrooms allowed.
Jack of all trades,master of none
>You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks, months if it hit you particularly hard.
Yeah, sure. Unless a friend or family member or pet gets shot/tazed/bludgeoned by the idiots who kick your door in. Unless your apartment/home is damaged enough to require immediate repairs or catches on fire because lolflashbangs. Unless someone is recording what happens on a cellphone and you get fired from your job because lolviralvideo paints you in way that could somehow by some asinine twisted logic paint them in a negative light.
Or, you know, if you get shot to death in a hail of hundreds of rounds because you (naturally and correctly) reacted to your door getting kicked in by drawing a home defense firearm.
Fuck that noise. This is too mild of a sentence for the crime, and that dude will most likely be doing the same shit again a few months after he gets out.
Sentence him to live 16 months in Quebec.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Swatting means there is one party with guns drawn, and another party, likely surprised, with guns drawn, with a potential aggressive intruder in the house.
Plain and simple, you have heard of suicide by cop? Well, this is homicide by cop. Hitting the wrong house has gotten police, as well as innocents killed.
I really am beginning to dislike people who call swatting, "just fun and games". This isn't just running LOIC on the middle school's website because someone doesn't like a teacher. People do get shot and die in these encounters. Innocent people on all sides. Those 12 gauge, three-ball rounds, and .40 ACP hollow-point rounds are not toys.
Making light of attempted murder is pretty low. Either one doesn't know enough to realize the death toll done by this, or one is on the side of the swatter, thinks it a sick joke.
And yet the ones trying to shame and abuse people are corrupt gaming journalists and similar dilettantes who get a hardon at the idea of changing gaming culture, even if that culture neither wants nor needs to be changed to match the fever swamps of neomarxist feminist ideology.
I don't see tens of millions of gamers standing up against GG, all I see are a few mouthbreathing journo grads, opportunistic wasters and beardos with babies lying, getting caught out on their lies, and lying again in the hopes that the information age will just go away. The old maxim of lying big enough and often enough... ...no longer applies.
What I think is funny is how people use media terms like "white supremacist" rather than "white separatist" or "white nationalist".
White supremacy as defined by the media is "White people wishing to enslave and rule over non-whites." Most white nationalists and white separatists want nothing to with non-whites. They want nations or towns with the fruits of their labor going to support people like them. They want their kind to exist beyond the current 300 year virtual extinction timeline for whites. They want to be able to go outside and walk at any time without being "randomly" attacked by bored urban youth.
Now if you mean "white supremacists" as in whites thinking their kind are better, every race has that ideology. Whites just have the history to back it up.
Swatting is nothing less than attempted murder. People have been killed in "wrong address" SWAT raids in the past which is effectively what this is to the people being targeted. Having armed people hyped up on adrenaline (and roided up in many cases - http://www.nj.com/news/index.s...) and expecting trouble force their way into someone's house can go badly in many obvious ways, a lot of which end up with the someone dead.
Now this particular kid seems to have some large mental problems and years in prison is unlikely to help him a lot (though it will prevent him from killing someone via a SWAT raid because they didn't friend him on facebook for a those years).
That police forces are too often becoming quasi military is a real, huge, valid issue, and it concerns me, but it is not the issue here.
Don't step on the baby.
Or have PTSD from nearly being made dead. People who claim that an armed paramilitary raid of your home is no big deal obviously haven't had it happen.
oh really? http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Pretty sure his development is already screwed up.
It should not be possible to make 911 calls and spoof the source as somewhere else. I'm sure "swatting" never occurred as a potential threat to anyone when the 911 system was being built, but it's pretty dang obvious now, and the vulnerability needs to be closed before some idiot's use of it gets someone killed. (Or someone else killed... have there been any deaths caused by swatting? I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't recall one.)
Such a backwards, awful point of view to have. In the US we have this concept of 'cruel and unusual punishment'. Inmates, while in the care of the state being raped in prison absolutely falls into that category -- the fact that our prison system tolerates that kind of behavior is terrible.
Were this a 30 or 40 YO, I'd say toss him into some place with high thick walls. For a very long time. But this is a kid, and kids are pliable enough to learn. Even kids as stupid as this one. Heck, kids who have got sucked into third world warlord conflicts, and who have committed horrendous crimes - in person - have been known to be capable of rehabilitation. This one may be too. I don't buy the throw away the key philosophy when it is a kid. Regardless, this is not a victimless crime. He should be directly under an adult responsible thumb for a very long time, be responsible for building a worthwhile life as the judge indicated, and as a condition of parole or release, not have access to computer or smart phone or even dumb phone, for a long time. He needs to live an analog life.
Don't step on the baby.
I do think that there are other side conversations about the militarization of SWAT teams that can be had as well, but that's not the focus of this story.
I don't think that's really at play here. Let's play devil's advocate and pretend the SWAT team had never been developed; now call the police and tell them that someone is in the process of murdering your neighbor. What do you suppose happens? They come to your neighbor's house with firearms drawn and immediately force entry into his home. They won't have all of the expensive tactical gear but do you think that's really going to alter the "experience" for your neighbor by any appreciable degree? Do you think there's much difference between looking at the business end of a .38 Special vs. an AR-15?
The militarization of the police is a worrisome trend that I've discussed before but I don't think it has anything to do with swatting. If the police think that someone is in the process of being murdered they're going to respond quickly and aggressively. There's really no good solution here; I don't think you want the police to discount such reports.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
(whack-a-doodle)
Tell that to the baby who essentially ate a flash grenade.
Yes, this kid was wrong. But we should examine the root cause of how a kid can pick up a phone that essentially deploys a military unit. How is that response valid? Shouldn't they vet the situation more before deploying a military force?
Examine the content and credibility of the phone call first. Maybe just knock on the door for a first check with conventional police officers. Only if they confirm a valid threat, with an active hostage situation, then you deploy a negotiator, and then if that fails, you consider deploying a force unit response.
The ridiculous disproportionate response, from phone call right to military force, is what should be punished and the leaders who making these decisions are enabling and creating this problem.
In this context aren't you supposed to say "master-race whiner"?
Really? Being the victim of SWATing seems like it could cause lifelong psychological damage - let alone the danger that you're sending HEAVILY ARMED people over to someone's house.
I wouldn't put a specific term on SWATing, I'd just treat it as what it is - attempted murder. Unless it is successful. In that case it is murder.
I've rented apartments to several felons, mostly those convicted of violating protective orders. As in their separated wife made a booty call unexpectedly and then reported the incident. Jail. Also the three-timer DUIs. Those I actually love, they all have given me their pastor's name and the meetings they go to.
They are all incredibly appreciative of a clean place to live, no BS.
This kid might, maybe, petition for court for expungement in several years, but I doubt he can convince a judge he's just stupid kid.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Meanwhile, in Finland, a thug gleefully admits to more than 50,000 counts of criminal hacking, etc and get...2 years probation.
-Styopa
*whoosh*
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
"For my money, anyone over 13 years old is aware of their actions and if they are defective enough to SWAT once, let alone multiple times, they should be incarcerated indefinitely in a mental health facility and banned from any phone or internet connected devices for life. "
There are no more mental health facilities the way you're thinking of them. All the institutions closed in the 80s and 90s. Now, you pretty much need to be Hannibal Lechter to get a mental health inpatient bed; you need to be so dangerous to yourself or others that the only choice is to keep you locked up and attempt to treat you. Prison is the new asylum for most mid-level mentally ill people.
Where the woman has her memory wiped every day and wakes up to some kind of everyone-has-gone-nuts scenario and runs for her life in terror, over and over again. Everyone else is an actor or an audience member but her.
Yep, this in particular...
...reminds me of Animal House - "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Not a lot of Republicans in Canada...
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
"SJW" doesn't mean anybody who is for social justice. I'm for social justice! I want people to stop hating and harassing each other.
"SJW" is the term for those who do bad things in the name of social justice.
I have tried to trace the use of SJW ("Social Justice Warrior") as a pejorative.
It seems to be entirely a geek creation and all but unknown before 2011. But one that has proven very useful to the bloggers of the National Review and those farther to the right.
Well as I'm sure you've figured out, ''sjw'' stands for social justice warrior. Back when I and a few others started this tumblr several years ago, ''sjw'' seemed, to us, to be more of a criticism on people who used social justice to further their own bigoted ends, push already marginalized people out of their own spaces, and dominate discussions with bigoted rhetoric.
In the years since this blog died out, ''sjw'' came to stand for anyone who supports social justice, a favorite go-to insult for white male nerds/libertarians/redditors. This blog is now followed by people with that attitude, and still gets asks of that nature. Hence the (partial) reason why I no longer update, even though I've somewhat returned to tumblr.
vice-ci7y asked
Google Trends: social justice warrior
Hey, I'm definitely morally opposed to excess police use of force and militarization, it disgusts me on a very deep level. But that is the action of the SWAT team not doing their homework, not paying attention, going overboard, etc., not the person who called them. The fact that SWATting is even possible is horrifying and disgusting.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Actually I have. My home was raided in June of 2010 because I was involved in a protest of Koch Industries. A boycott to be specific, but they accused me of being a part of a DDOS. I had PTSD for a while, but most of it was linked to my complete ignorance that our police and federal police were pretty much the most corrupt entity ever, and sadistically violent. So I'm well aware that it is a big deal, but I wouldn't send somebody to jail for swatting somebody for more than a month or two.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
That is the SWAT team's disgusting militarization, abuse, horrible culture and corruption. The fact that a swatting is dangerous is a sign of illegality within our police culture and pure evil in our police culture, not in those who do something stupid and evil from a distance who don't personally see the effects.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Fair point.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
It's a game of budgetary use-it-or-lose-it and police departments are very reluctant to give up their toys.
How about they're not allowed to use any equipment that we're not allowed to own without extreme justification? All the normal cop gear is stuff we can have... did they make body armor illegal yet? But anyway.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well, yeah, ya do. There are a lot of people in (especially US) prisons who are there for non-violent crimes - embezzlement, drug possession, etc. To allow people to be subjected to rape dehumanises them. Jail is supposed to punish but it's also supposed to rehabilitate, something US prisons are notoriously shit at. You don't fix someone by raping them. Why spend all that money locking someone up if you're going to release them more broken than when you put them in?
No. The reason swatting is dangerous is because of those things.But that is irrelevant to the person doing the swatting - they are employing that dangerous instrument the details of why it is dangerous don' t matter in the slightest.
Just like if he was to shoot someone himself, the details of how and why a bullet damages a person is irrelevant to the crime itself.
If he was to pay some bikers to break into the victims house and hold them at gunpoint for a while, the social and economic reasons for the existence biker gangs would also be irrelevant.
And tens of millions of games don't agree with the anti-gamergate idiots who support slut shaming, swatting, doxing and so on.
FTFY. Keep up with the times. If you would even bother engaging with someone from GamerGate, you'd realize that most of them are just normal people that want to enjoy their hobby and not have it tainted by Neo-Puritan ideals being pushed by SJWs. The same SJWs that give zero fucks about ethics, such as Leigh "Fuck ethics, get money" Alexander.
I love how people keep saying #GG is irrelevant, yet the games media and blogs cant stop talking about us
Until they day you get accused by someone, and put in prison while trying to prove your innocence. Or if it happens to someone else who only got freed after a year when their lawyer finally gets round to lodging an appeal. Or when it happens to your son or daughter who should have been fined for jaywalking, but had the misfortune of encountering a judge who gets paid by the privatized prison company for each new client. We're not just talking about criminals - which may include people stealing a slice of pizza and Charles Manson, so the word is pretty much meaningless to me - but also a lot of people who'd never be in prison in any other country in the world in the first place. The mentally ill, for instance. Or the retarded - who get locked up a lot.
The prison system not just locks up criminals, it also creates criminals, and the more dehumanizing the treatment, the worse the monsters that come out. Even, or especially, if they were completely innocent to begin with. It has been a long standing observation that victims of torture (which is what we are discussing here) are more resilient to psychiatric damage if they were "guilty", i.e. worked for the resistance, or actually committed crimes. Not so the innocent - they get hit the hardest.
Just today I read a story about a leading member of the Lords Resistance Army on trial for war crimes. He started out as an innocent boy that got kidnapped. And turned into a monster. He slaughtered a lot of people before they caught him.
The prison system in the USA creates more monsters every day and thereby perpetuates itself to the point where it is both the biggest and most unsuccessful prison system in the world. It may also be the most expensive. So I would worry about prisoners undergoing torture. Because it's part of a huge problem the US society has to solve.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Throw him in big boy prison if he wants to be a tough guy swatting people. The kid got lucky that he's not 18. A few months in gen-pop being traded like a pack of Pokemon cards would teach him a valuable lesson
If the police think that someone is in the process of being murdered they're going to respond quickly and aggressively.
Fortunately I live in The Netherlands, where police will happily wait outside for backup while people inside are tortured to death(*). A much more reasonable response that prevents a lot of unnecessary deaths!
(*) True story: http://www.mamjo.com/forum/ind... (Dutch)
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Misuse of SWAT assets is a separate issue from militarization. The former is a procedural problem that city and state governments around the United States should be addressing. SWAT team members should be pushing back against being used for every stupid thing that comes to the mind of the police chief.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
Correct, but the militarization of SWAT and police in general SHOULD be the focus of the story. These little assholes wouldn't be swatting if it didn't evoke such a massive response from police.
Did you read the list of offenses this kid did? If you think he did all than just because SWAT teams react, and he is not the one that is primarily accountable.,., .well, I'll just have to assume you are the kid's mother.
Hmm... *re-reads post* nope, at no time did I excuse this kid's actions. The point I was making (since you appear to fail at reading comprehension) is that swatting wouldn't exist if not for a relatively easy to exploit system. Sure, this little psychopath found other ways to inflict misery on others (hence the use of "little assholes") but the fact remains that something needs to be changed WRT griefing by police.
I suspect that it won't be the police that reform it, either. Swatting gives them a good excuse to use all that military equipment.
THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
You do know that It's not just guys like you, playing LoL or CoD.
Hah, LoL and CoD players are the most casuals of casuals.
No one is trying to change gaming culture, they're just trying to make the definition more broad, because gamers are a diverse group.
Have you even stopped to see how many people in games media calling for more PoCs in games where they wont work? How games need to gender bend known characters so that people would have more female options? How many more sites are now saying that excessive violence is bad?
There are calls for changes to be made to the industry. Does it mean we want less diverse games? No. But we would like everyone to stop saying that everything is problematic, racist, sexist, etc.
And one final thing - The spectacular failure that was Sunset shows that the games that people calling for hyper diversity are NOT the ones buying games. Go figure.
Randi Harper and Zoe Quinn /thread
AND selling us all out to Russia. So I've heard. On some blogs.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
It only won't work if you don't think non-whites aren't competent enough to run their own towns. I think they can manage. They don't need whites to enforce our way of life on them. It is rather ethnocentric to expect failure from them.
All white nations have been invaded by non-whites by varying degrees. Is one nation too much to ask for?
As for who decides who is white, I'd say being a non-Jewish caucasian of European descent who doesn't want to be enriched by vibrant diversity is enough of a qualifier. Why not allow jewish whites? Well they have Israel and their privilege levels would go up too much if they also get into said non-Jewish white nation. Plus they've been behind every movement to bring vibrant diversity to white countries. There is no use putting a bandaid on a papercut when the carotid artery is gushing out blood.
"For my money, anyone over 13 years old is aware of their actions and if they are defective enough to SWAT once, let alone multiple times, they should be incarcerated indefinitely in a mental health facility and banned from any phone or internet connected devices for life. "
There are no more mental health facilities the way you're thinking of them. All the institutions closed in the 80s and 90s. Now, you pretty much need to be Hannibal Lechter to get a mental health inpatient bed; you need to be so dangerous to yourself or others that the only choice is to keep you locked up and attempt to treat you. Prison is the new asylum for most mid-level mentally ill people.
You're right. But I think they just throw the "dangerous" ones in solitary, so nothing will get you into a mental health facility anymore. I put dangerous in scare quotes because anyone with a pulse can be put into solitary for what seem completely arbitrary reasons. On any given day, 80,000 US prisoners are in solitary. 25,000 are in long term solitary confinement. It's cruel, it drives normal humans insane and should be unconstitutional.
Some privacy policy Slashdot.
So long as even one person reads my message and gains some insight from it, it is worth the karma points that might be burned.
That has happened here too (Columbine being the most infamous example) but as "active shooters" have become a bigger perceived threat the training of North American law enforcement has shifted towards a more aggressive response. That's probably for the best, dead is forever, ruptured eardrums and broken doors can be repaired.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
That is cruel and unusual.
You clearly said that we should deflect focus from what this kid did and his punishment (which is the story), and by doing so we inevitably avoid the discussion of this kid's particularly offenses and punishment. To me, that reads like an accountability diversion. If you meant that we should ALSO focus on the swat teams IN ADDITION to this kids offenses, then you could have stated it that way.
Body armor is legal but expensive for regular citizens with a couple exemptions. Some jurisdictions ban felons from owning body armor, which is interesting for some rap artists with records and active threats against them. I believe that in those cases they can appeal that rule.
I don't read AC A human right
here's your definition: social justice warrior == anybody I disagree with and want to disparage.
if you put 'em down, they'll never do it again. Problem solved.
Chimpanzees have a right to be stupid. Squirrels have a right to be silly. Human beings are different and have a duty to be responsible. Human beings are fully-capable of exercising self-control starting at a very young age (you can prove it by telling a little kid you'll give him or her something they really want if they can sit still and be quiet for five minutes). Swat boy was perfectly capable of not launching the police at his victims. He chose poorly. Execute him.
Yeah, aside from all the crimes this kid committed, what were his crimes?!
You get pithy case rulings in the USA as well, and boring ones in Canada. It's the exceptions that we hear about...
I don't read AC A human right
CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN are not synonyms, and haven't been for a while.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
They want to be able to go outside and walk at any time without being "randomly" attacked by bored urban non-white youth.
You will still be attacked by bored urban white youth.?
FREE JULIUS 2015.
You have a different definition of "gamer" to the one being used by the people you hate so much. When they say that there is a problem with "gamer" culture, they mean the hard core of arseholes who harass and abuse, and who get pissy when someone points out that games are an important part of our culture and so, like movies and books, have some responsibility to portray people in a way that doesn't suck.
The do NOT mean all people who play games. In fact if you read a the original article that sparked this claim it's extremely obvious that the author is saying the vast majority of people playing games are not part of this "gamer" subculture where the problem is.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I don't see tens of millions of gamers standing up against GG
I'm sure if you ask most people who play games if they are against misogyny and harassment, they will tell you that they are. Especially since half of them are female.
Also, reviewing the GamerGate IRC logs, it seems that not only did Gaters not condemn swatting, they actually revelled in it.
beardos with babies
This is the deranged ranting of a person suffering from paranoia. Seek help. Seriously, I'm not joking.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Don't believe the hype. The accusations that "SJWs" have been harassing people are unfounded. When you ask for evidence all you get are some links to blogs making more accusations without evidence, or the odd tweet that isn't actually harassing anyone.
For example, GGers accused "SJWs" of doxxing people. When I asked for evidence they sent a link to a tweet that was pointing out that a Twitter account belonged to a notorious troll who had already posted his own real name in association with another account that had been added to GGautoblocker, thus preventing him from harassing his victims. So the actual story is that a troll made a new account so he could carry on trolling, and someone pointed out that the new account was his. No home address, no phone number, just pointing out that association. Not doxxing by any reasonable standard, and certainly nothing compared to what GG has been doing.
So don't believe it. SJWs are mythical creatures who don't exist. If you ever catch a glimpse of one, it's probably just a GG sockpuppet (a quick reverse image search on the profile picture usually confirms that). It's all part of the fake culture war that GG is waging, trying to present themselves as the victims while doing everything they claim is being done to them.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
i see judges in Canada write in a much more appoachable style, while US judges stay at arms length. Here's a great example about a civil suit between neighbors. :http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2014/2014onsc3061/2014onsc3061.html
I highly recommend you take a 5 min work break and read this. it's only a couple pages. pull quote:
In my view, the parties do not need a judge; what they need is a rather stern kindergarten teacher. I say this with the greatest of respect, as both the Plaintiffs and the Defendants are educated professionals who are successful in their work lives and are otherwise productive members of the community. Despite their many advantages in life, however, they are acting like children. And now that the matter has taken up an entire day in what is already a crowded motions court, they are doing so at the taxpayer’s expense.
Holi, your email address isn't public, but mine is. Please contact me (mo jo at worl d3 dot net).
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
We know exactly who the GamerGaters are. We know what they said on IRC, what they posted publicly on Twitter and 4/8chan. Gamergate isn't about ethics, it's about hate and harassment. That's a matter of public record. You are simply hoping that people are too lazy to check for themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Good job siting a Wikipedia entry that has been hijacked and co-opted by one side of the discussion. People are banned for even trying to make the article slightly less bias. Any place that defends us is automatically tagged as not a reliable source. Basically GamerGate is about Ethics, and part of the problem is that the SJW cliques have invaded games media. So the war on SJWs that people see is actually directly tied to ethics. Due to the large amount of people that lean to SJ side of things, they never intended to make it fair for any other discussion to happen. Tons of sites have implemented Disclosure and Ethics policies after GG started. We got the FCC to look into Ars Technica's failure to disclose affiliate links. We are the watch dogs of the industry. You refuse to see that. Why? It's easier to paint us as one type of people and ignore the bigger issues at hand. Its easier for you guys to have a boogie man that you can make the reasons for all your pain and strife. When you throw everything back on us, it makes it easier to hide the side you agree with's transgressions and harassment.
Do you even bother to go to where people that discus topics related to gamergate hang out? Mostly us talking about how shit games media is and laughing at McIntosh's last tweet. As for what is posted publicly on twitter, its been shown that less than 1% of all things posted under GamerGate are considered harassment. To assume anything better than shitposting happens on chans is the greatest folly. While some of the work is done on the chans, most of the organizations happened on Reddit prior to the "No Emailing Campaigns" rune.
tl;dr - Wiki article is shit. The only reason why you agree with it as a source is confirmation bias. It cant be wrong if its what you think is really going on.
I'm sure if you ask most people who play games if they are against misogyny and harassment
Therefore they should hate you like the black death. Oh I'm sorry, you thought you were on the right side of history? Women are far stronger than you have EVER given them credit for.
This is the deranged ranting of a person suffering from paranoia. Seek help. Seriously, I'm not joking.
Struck a nerve have we? Interesting.
You're either deliberately remaining ignorant or lying through your teeth then because SWATting and doxing are such routine tactics for SJWs that even the people behind Crash Override have done both. Then again considering SJWs, anti-gamergaters in particular, are also the people who have mailed people knives, syringes, and dead animals, made credible bomb threats, and specifically targeted women and minorities for the worst abuse like hacking their bank accounts or getting them fired after doxing them I'm not surprised at your ability to engage in doublethink.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
See it's stuff like this that just helps prove everything people are saying about SJWs and then some. There's an absurd amount of evidence out there of SJWs doxing and even SWATting people but you just keep moving the goalposts further and further and further while outright denying it. You've gone so far off the deep end that you're claiming SJWs don't even exist anymore despite anyone being able to hop on tumblr or jezebel or feministcurrent and see them first hand.
Threats to shoot them at home: https://twitter.com/FartToCont...
Threats of rape at their work: https://twitter.com/GGfeminist...
Forced to leave home due to threats: https://twitter.com/ForemanEri...
Text messages: https://twitter.com/milky_cand...
Phone calls threatening their family: http://i.imgur.com/892hZ1A.png
Losing their jobs: https://twitter.com/FabioFacch...
Losing their jobs: https://twitter.com/CodeusaSof...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Doxxing and threats: http://imgur.com/BNlLKcn
Doxxing a child: http://i.imgur.com/jpRvb52.jpg
Emails getting hacked: https://twitter.com/Ash_Effect...
Income shut down: https://twitter.com/DanielleGi...
Doxxed purely for supporting: https://twitter.com/coolguyqui...
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
It's not really "Stormfront or Socialjustice" anymore with how open and severe anti-semitism has gotten among SJWs, it's more like Stormfront AND Social Justice these days.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I have one word for that judge's decision:
Zing!
I don't read AC A human right
Do you think he would have called them if he expected them to knock politely and have a simple conversation with the home owners?
He knew what type of force would likely be used and called for that specific reason.
Canadian SWAT teams (and police in general)are quite different from their American counterparts. However this kid called SWAT teams in both the US and Canada so some portion of his victims were Americans dealing with American SWAT teams.
Flashpoint is fiction but it is based on the Toronto SWAT team. Canadian police are much different from the Americans however that doesn't mean that they always do things the way it's portrayed on flashpoint. As a general rule Canadian police are more likely to ask questions and observe a situation before rushing in guns blazing but that's never a guarantee
As usual all we see are links to unverifiable Twitter accounts, most likely sock puppets, and some imgur links that are also unverifiable. Why not link to the actual pastebin, for example? Images are trivial to take.
The best part is that the first link is to a suspended account. You didn't even bother to check your copy/pasta before dumping it on us.
Against that you have the GamerGate IRC logs, released by GamerGate themselves and confirmed by others who independently logged those channels. You have pages caches from 8chan, or you could just head over there right not and see it in action.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
What is it with them and the anti-semitism anyway? The amount of pure racist shit was just nuts but they were so openly "fuck the jews, holocaust denial" that they really do come off as a new sect of Stormfront. I could at least understand how racist towards blacks that they are (as it seems one VERY white section of SJW that believe anything a black can do to a white is justified, I even read an article being pushed on places like HuffPo pushing to ban hate crime laws NOT because adding time based on thoughts is wrong but because a group of blacks that dosed a 14 year old in gas and lit him on fire while saying "burn a YT for Treyvon!" might be charged with a hate crime without giving them the "historical racism" excuse) but where in the fuck did this extreme hatred for Jews come from?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
A vidiot
As usual all we see are links to unverifiable Twitter accounts, most likely sock puppets, and some imgur links that are also unverifiable. Why not link to the actual pastebin, for example? Images are trivial to take.
And did I not call it? Goalposts promptly moved. Absolutely everything inconvenient to you is "unverifiable" with claims of being part of some staggeringly vast global conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands of people for almost a whole year. Meanwhile the proven bullshit on your side is still god's purest truth.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I have no idea. People have always hated the jews. It's like this thing that just... happens...
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Any "cause" will attract "whack-a-doodles". The better the cause, the stronger the attraction.
Those working for good causes should be on their guard for invasion and takeover by groups or individuals that only want publicity, power and money. It happens all of the time, look at the news reports with that in mind and you can see the effects.
Sometimes the invaders are not even part of the group. They just infiltrate the area where demonstrations are being held. Area of the park or area of the Internet. And the resulting violence is blamed on the original group.
Watch your back...
Which is why there are 2 different views of the issue.