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Vancouver Area Teen Sentenced To 16 Months For Swatting
An anonymous reader writes: A 17-year-old from the Vancouver area in Canada has been sentenced to 16 months in youth custody and 8 months under supervision in the community after pleading guilty to 23 charges including criminal harassment, public mischief, extortion and uttering threats. The teenager was responsible for a number of swatting calls across the United States and Canada — mostly of female gamers. The judge told him, "It appears that when real life became too hard you retreated into the online world and became increasingly socially isolated. While you may think you enjoyed greater success in the online world, that success was an illusion. You were left with severely limited social skills and a significant educational deficit."
My sentence would have been life.
A life of swatting.
He'd know it's coming. Over and over again. He just would never know when. He'd be asleep at 3 AM, and BAM! Door kicked in, flashbangs detonated everywhere, guns pointed in his face.
He'd find it hilarious, I'm sure, whilst everyone's favorite tacticool occifers would no doubt appreciate the training exercise.
"Hello, 911?"
Here we go again!
That's because you don't understand Canadian law. That is actually a fairly harsh term for a young offender in Canada.
The other option would have been moving him to adult court. That's a pretty big uphill battle for the prosecution, as they would have to prove how society would be better served potentially throwing him in jail until 27.
He's a stupid kid, and really needs to be treated as such.
Sounds like a very reasonable and level-headed judge, making him completely ineligible for appointment to a higher court.
I do think that there are other side conversations about the militarization of SWAT teams that can be had as well, but that's not the focus of this story.
Correct, but the militarization of SWAT and police in general SHOULD be the focus of the story. These little assholes wouldn't be swatting if it didn't evoke such a massive response from police.
THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
That's the textbook definition; he delights in the suffering of others.
He needs extensive mental evaluation and should probably be watched carefully once his sentence is up. These people are dangerous by their very nature.
What have you got against Linus Torvalds?
So despite the tens or hundreds of millions of gamers out there gaming away merrily without ever swatting anyone, you seize on one clearly disturbed and deeply dysfunctional psycho as evidence that the shrill goose-stepping SJW brigade are somehow justified in their hysterics, let alone needed? No thanks brownshirt, go back to tumblr, the population there is ignorant enough to put up with your huffed out bullshit.
Yea, Americans have NO conception of time whatsoever. Most of my countrymen would happily send somebody to prison for 10+ years for even minor offenses. Punch somebody while you are both drunk? 5 years. They have no idea how long 5 years, how insane a punishment is, how badly their lives will be permanently destroyed, how many friends and family they will lose, just how much time really costs somebody. 16 months during that developmental period is a HUGE chunk of his life. You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks, months if it hit you particularly hard. But 16 months in jail is basically making sure the rest of his life is seriously restricted and damaged. But for that many swattings? Sure. It fits. I even thought this one was a little light.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
"SJW" doesn't mean anybody who is for social justice. I'm for social justice! I want people to stop hating and harassing each other.
"SJW" is the term for those who do bad things in the name of social justice. They harass and threaten people who don't tow their very narrow definition of what is right. They become confrontational and angry if you so much as suggest they might be wrong about someone.
People who are for social justice? They're awesome.
Social Justice Warriors? They can be as bad as the guy this article is about.
You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks...
Unless you are fucking DEAD.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I'm Canadian, but cannot claim to speak for the country, only my own Canadian-derived viewpoints.
I, too, do not want to see someone capable of being rehabilitated denied the opportunity for a better life (ie: job, hobbies, freedom, personal fulfillment).
I, too, do not want people who are un-rehabilitable released back into the general population.
I, however, feel that I must give the court-appointed psychologists the same level of initial trust that I would extend to the courts in judging this fairly. Since I'm not a psychologist, I would choose to depend on the above experts determinations of the offender's mental state post-treatment (as I am presuming from other past experiences in the Canadian legal system that the offender will be subject to such treatments) to determine his future freedoms and limitations. As such, I cannot prejudge his fitness at this point.
I would agree there are many discussions that should be had about the relative militarization of the police.
TL:DR: Article light on specifics to relative ability of treatment for the offender, so I must rely on the determination of the courts.
PS: The commenting style is deliberate, but not intended as mocking. I mean to highlight the relatively small differences between sample USA and Canadian viewpoints that may aid a further discussion on the differences between the USA perception of justice and the Canadian viewpoint.
His problem isn't that he's a stupid kid, his problem is that he's a narcissist. That's a personality disorder, jail time isn't going to fix it. He needs to admit that he has a major personality problem (which, as it turns out, isn't all that common for a narcissist to do) and then seek help through therapy (also not all that common). If he doesn't take the steps necessary to back away from that cliff then no amount of jail will "rehabilitate" what is wrong with him.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Because swatting sounds a lot like attempted murder to me.
I work for nVidia.
Correct, but the militarization of SWAT and police in general SHOULD be the focus of the story. These little assholes wouldn't be swatting if it didn't evoke such a massive response from police.
Did you read the list of offenses this kid did? If you think he did all than just because SWAT teams react, and he is not the one that is primarily accountable.,., .well, I'll just have to assume you are the kid's mother.
I don't know all of the details, but 16 months seems like a slap on the wrist for a "prank" that can get people killed. Like, you know, in real life. For ever. No do-overs, no saved games.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You can recover from a SWATing in a few weeks, months if it hit you particularly hard. But 16 months in jail is basically making sure the rest of his life is seriously restricted and damaged.
Really? Being the victim of SWATing seems like it could cause lifelong psychological damage - let alone the danger that you're sending HEAVILY ARMED people over to someone's house. I think 5 years would be a better sentence for him. Sounds like he's already pretty damaged anyway. "the judge noted a psychiatric and psychological assessment that she said painted a picture of a deeply troubled young person who is a high risk to reoffend. The report suggested the teen has minimized his crimes and blamed the victims, showed no remorse and was motivated in the pleasure the trouble he inflicted on his victims.The report described him as having an emerging narcissistic personality disorder."
SWATTING isn't a light offence. When you do this there is a very real possibility that someone will end up dead because a cop gets excited, or a homeowner is armed and decides to start shooting. This should be treated as a very serious crime, and if anyone is killed, the person doing the swatting needs to get a murder one charge slapped on them.
Moreover, this kid didn't do this once, but many times, demonstrating that this isn't a spur of the moment 'crime of passion', but that he possess a consistent and dangerous disregard for life. I am all for lighter sentencing for a lot of things, but this is something that you need to come down heavy on people for. Grafitti is stupid teenage hyjinx. SWATTING is really dangerous behavior.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I'm all for a massive reduction in police militarization and very nearly eliminating SWAT teams given how rarely they're used for what they were originally intended for. That being said, the problem with using this issue as a lever is that there will always be some fringe situation that calls for a swift armed reaction of some sort. These kids can literally say whatever they want, so there's always going to be a way to provoke a dangerous response as long as there's any conceivable situation that warrants that response. This is just one of those cases where there should be a panic button. It should be really difficult to hit and you should punish the living shit out of people who treat the panic button like it's a toy.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
I think both issue need to be addressed.
The severity of punishment for calling in fake hostage situations should be sever to act as a deterrent, but considerably more important is effective enforcement. People have to think that if they do this they will get caught. Otherwise even a death sentance won't actually be an effective deterrent.
Simultaneously, the police need to reign in SWAT protocols. It is completely unacceptable to be kicking in doors of innocent people, so much so that in the US it's even in the fucking Constitution that the cops need to get a warrant first. Now, figuring out how to desitngruish between genuine threats and fake ones without compromising respnce time in the real cases is a hard problem, but if the cops can't figure it out their only other choice should be to disband their SWAT teams.
16 months in prison will help him improve his social skills no end.
If you're going to "militarize" any part of the police force, the SWAT is the place to do it. Those teams exist specifically to deal with threats outside the normal tactical capabilities of law enforcement, which may include confrontations with well-armed gangs or home-grown crazies. In those instances, it make sense for the SWAT members (who are supposed to be trained to a level beyond your normal patrolman) to have a wider variety of options and hardware at there disposal.
Now, the militarization of the regular police force is something else entirely. Patrolman Krupke doesn't need an automatic rifle with gee-whiz optics and an up-armored assault vehicle just to patrol the neighborhood beat.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
The problem is like every cause its been taken over by the whack-a-doodles. Look at how MADD went from "We think you should call a cab when you've been drinking so you don't hurt anybody" (sensible and logical) to "Our ultimate goal is prohibition" (whack-a-doodle) or how PETA went from "We think food animals should be treated humanely" (sensible and logical) to "We'll call fish sea kittens and argue that germs should have the same rights as people!" (whack-a-doodle).
For those that think gamergate is about misogyny, or that social justice hasn't been taken over by the whack-a-doodles? I invite you to play a little game called "stormfront or social justice" where they simply remove the group being targeted and you have to choose whether it was written by a SJW or by a white supremacist. Congrats if you get even 50% correct because THAT is how whack-a-doodle the so called social justice "movement" has become, complete with calls for this or that group to be exterminated, this or that group should have their rights taken away, shit that would have sounded right at home at any Klan rally simply by changing the group.
So I'm sorry but "social justice" as a concept has been taken over, the sensible ones have been run out of the tent by ultra left wing racists that have total control of the platform.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
My only annoyance with the whole internet abuse counter-attack (Gamergate, etc.) is that those who were targeted by the abuse went and painted the entirety of the population of male gamers as sociopathic misogynists and giggled while the innocent were lumped in with that horrible stereotype.
Just like pre-internet days, the nerds get abused for being nerds.
This case is exactly what needs to be the standard response. (1) Someone reports abuse. (2) Investigation. (3) Abuser found. (4) Abuser tried and convicted. The end. No making a career based on accusing all male gamers or the entire video game industry or the entirety of "science" for the abuse of a few people perpetrated. Just report, investigate, find, convict, close the book.
We don't need social martyrs, we need good police work and good courts.
I'm 58 and grew up just outside of Phila and can remember the TV commercial, Do you know where your children are? Well I think those commercials should run again but just a little different. Do you know what your children are doing online behind that Closed bedroom doors? Just an Idea. My daughters has her PC in the main living room. No TVs or PC in bedrooms allowed.
Jack of all trades,master of none
Sentence him to live 16 months in Quebec.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
And yet the ones trying to shame and abuse people are corrupt gaming journalists and similar dilettantes who get a hardon at the idea of changing gaming culture, even if that culture neither wants nor needs to be changed to match the fever swamps of neomarxist feminist ideology.
I don't see tens of millions of gamers standing up against GG, all I see are a few mouthbreathing journo grads, opportunistic wasters and beardos with babies lying, getting caught out on their lies, and lying again in the hopes that the information age will just go away. The old maxim of lying big enough and often enough... ...no longer applies.
Swatting is nothing less than attempted murder. People have been killed in "wrong address" SWAT raids in the past which is effectively what this is to the people being targeted. Having armed people hyped up on adrenaline (and roided up in many cases - http://www.nj.com/news/index.s...) and expecting trouble force their way into someone's house can go badly in many obvious ways, a lot of which end up with the someone dead.
Now this particular kid seems to have some large mental problems and years in prison is unlikely to help him a lot (though it will prevent him from killing someone via a SWAT raid because they didn't friend him on facebook for a those years).
Or have PTSD from nearly being made dead. People who claim that an armed paramilitary raid of your home is no big deal obviously haven't had it happen.
It should not be possible to make 911 calls and spoof the source as somewhere else. I'm sure "swatting" never occurred as a potential threat to anyone when the 911 system was being built, but it's pretty dang obvious now, and the vulnerability needs to be closed before some idiot's use of it gets someone killed. (Or someone else killed... have there been any deaths caused by swatting? I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't recall one.)
Such a backwards, awful point of view to have. In the US we have this concept of 'cruel and unusual punishment'. Inmates, while in the care of the state being raped in prison absolutely falls into that category -- the fact that our prison system tolerates that kind of behavior is terrible.
Were this a 30 or 40 YO, I'd say toss him into some place with high thick walls. For a very long time. But this is a kid, and kids are pliable enough to learn. Even kids as stupid as this one. Heck, kids who have got sucked into third world warlord conflicts, and who have committed horrendous crimes - in person - have been known to be capable of rehabilitation. This one may be too. I don't buy the throw away the key philosophy when it is a kid. Regardless, this is not a victimless crime. He should be directly under an adult responsible thumb for a very long time, be responsible for building a worthwhile life as the judge indicated, and as a condition of parole or release, not have access to computer or smart phone or even dumb phone, for a long time. He needs to live an analog life.
Don't step on the baby.
I do think that there are other side conversations about the militarization of SWAT teams that can be had as well, but that's not the focus of this story.
I don't think that's really at play here. Let's play devil's advocate and pretend the SWAT team had never been developed; now call the police and tell them that someone is in the process of murdering your neighbor. What do you suppose happens? They come to your neighbor's house with firearms drawn and immediately force entry into his home. They won't have all of the expensive tactical gear but do you think that's really going to alter the "experience" for your neighbor by any appreciable degree? Do you think there's much difference between looking at the business end of a .38 Special vs. an AR-15?
The militarization of the police is a worrisome trend that I've discussed before but I don't think it has anything to do with swatting. If the police think that someone is in the process of being murdered they're going to respond quickly and aggressively. There's really no good solution here; I don't think you want the police to discount such reports.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
(whack-a-doodle)
Tell that to the baby who essentially ate a flash grenade.
Yes, this kid was wrong. But we should examine the root cause of how a kid can pick up a phone that essentially deploys a military unit. How is that response valid? Shouldn't they vet the situation more before deploying a military force?
Examine the content and credibility of the phone call first. Maybe just knock on the door for a first check with conventional police officers. Only if they confirm a valid threat, with an active hostage situation, then you deploy a negotiator, and then if that fails, you consider deploying a force unit response.
The ridiculous disproportionate response, from phone call right to military force, is what should be punished and the leaders who making these decisions are enabling and creating this problem.
"For my money, anyone over 13 years old is aware of their actions and if they are defective enough to SWAT once, let alone multiple times, they should be incarcerated indefinitely in a mental health facility and banned from any phone or internet connected devices for life. "
There are no more mental health facilities the way you're thinking of them. All the institutions closed in the 80s and 90s. Now, you pretty much need to be Hannibal Lechter to get a mental health inpatient bed; you need to be so dangerous to yourself or others that the only choice is to keep you locked up and attempt to treat you. Prison is the new asylum for most mid-level mentally ill people.
"SJW" doesn't mean anybody who is for social justice. I'm for social justice! I want people to stop hating and harassing each other.
"SJW" is the term for those who do bad things in the name of social justice.
I have tried to trace the use of SJW ("Social Justice Warrior") as a pejorative.
It seems to be entirely a geek creation and all but unknown before 2011. But one that has proven very useful to the bloggers of the National Review and those farther to the right.
Well as I'm sure you've figured out, ''sjw'' stands for social justice warrior. Back when I and a few others started this tumblr several years ago, ''sjw'' seemed, to us, to be more of a criticism on people who used social justice to further their own bigoted ends, push already marginalized people out of their own spaces, and dominate discussions with bigoted rhetoric.
In the years since this blog died out, ''sjw'' came to stand for anyone who supports social justice, a favorite go-to insult for white male nerds/libertarians/redditors. This blog is now followed by people with that attitude, and still gets asks of that nature. Hence the (partial) reason why I no longer update, even though I've somewhat returned to tumblr.
vice-ci7y asked
Google Trends: social justice warrior
Actually I have. My home was raided in June of 2010 because I was involved in a protest of Koch Industries. A boycott to be specific, but they accused me of being a part of a DDOS. I had PTSD for a while, but most of it was linked to my complete ignorance that our police and federal police were pretty much the most corrupt entity ever, and sadistically violent. So I'm well aware that it is a big deal, but I wouldn't send somebody to jail for swatting somebody for more than a month or two.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
No. The reason swatting is dangerous is because of those things.But that is irrelevant to the person doing the swatting - they are employing that dangerous instrument the details of why it is dangerous don' t matter in the slightest.
Just like if he was to shoot someone himself, the details of how and why a bullet damages a person is irrelevant to the crime itself.
If he was to pay some bikers to break into the victims house and hold them at gunpoint for a while, the social and economic reasons for the existence biker gangs would also be irrelevant.
And tens of millions of games don't agree with the anti-gamergate idiots who support slut shaming, swatting, doxing and so on.
FTFY. Keep up with the times. If you would even bother engaging with someone from GamerGate, you'd realize that most of them are just normal people that want to enjoy their hobby and not have it tainted by Neo-Puritan ideals being pushed by SJWs. The same SJWs that give zero fucks about ethics, such as Leigh "Fuck ethics, get money" Alexander.
Until they day you get accused by someone, and put in prison while trying to prove your innocence. Or if it happens to someone else who only got freed after a year when their lawyer finally gets round to lodging an appeal. Or when it happens to your son or daughter who should have been fined for jaywalking, but had the misfortune of encountering a judge who gets paid by the privatized prison company for each new client. We're not just talking about criminals - which may include people stealing a slice of pizza and Charles Manson, so the word is pretty much meaningless to me - but also a lot of people who'd never be in prison in any other country in the world in the first place. The mentally ill, for instance. Or the retarded - who get locked up a lot.
The prison system not just locks up criminals, it also creates criminals, and the more dehumanizing the treatment, the worse the monsters that come out. Even, or especially, if they were completely innocent to begin with. It has been a long standing observation that victims of torture (which is what we are discussing here) are more resilient to psychiatric damage if they were "guilty", i.e. worked for the resistance, or actually committed crimes. Not so the innocent - they get hit the hardest.
Just today I read a story about a leading member of the Lords Resistance Army on trial for war crimes. He started out as an innocent boy that got kidnapped. And turned into a monster. He slaughtered a lot of people before they caught him.
The prison system in the USA creates more monsters every day and thereby perpetuates itself to the point where it is both the biggest and most unsuccessful prison system in the world. It may also be the most expensive. So I would worry about prisoners undergoing torture. Because it's part of a huge problem the US society has to solve.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
i see judges in Canada write in a much more appoachable style, while US judges stay at arms length. Here's a great example about a civil suit between neighbors. :http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2014/2014onsc3061/2014onsc3061.html
I highly recommend you take a 5 min work break and read this. it's only a couple pages. pull quote:
In my view, the parties do not need a judge; what they need is a rather stern kindergarten teacher. I say this with the greatest of respect, as both the Plaintiffs and the Defendants are educated professionals who are successful in their work lives and are otherwise productive members of the community. Despite their many advantages in life, however, they are acting like children. And now that the matter has taken up an entire day in what is already a crowded motions court, they are doing so at the taxpayer’s expense.
Do you think he would have called them if he expected them to knock politely and have a simple conversation with the home owners?
He knew what type of force would likely be used and called for that specific reason.