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Reddit Will 'Hide' Vile Content After Policy Change

AmiMoJo writes: It will be more difficult to find "abhorrent" content posted to community news site Reddit, the site has announced. It stopped short of banning the material outright and instead will require users to log-in to access it. The company reiterated its existing complete bans of illegal content, including child abuse images and so-called "revenge porn." Chief executive and co-founder Steve Huffman told users: "We've spent the last few days here discussing, and agree that an approach like this allows us as a company to repudiate content we don't want to associate with the business, but gives individuals freedom to consume it if they choose."

164 comments

  1. Note to editor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really feel like the quotes should be around 'vile' instead of 'hide'

    1. Re:Note to editor by ihtoit · · Score: 0

      Not really. Regwalled content is generally hidden from Google search results if the site's set up properly. Ergo, "hide" as in "ensure current and future search results are not valid".

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    2. Re:Note to editor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're an idiot.

    3. Re:Note to editor by Ultra64 · · Score: 1

      No, he's an ihtoit.

    4. Re:Note to editor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are.

  2. Vile discrimination by turkeydance · · Score: 0

    Vileist.

  3. In Other News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    voat.co has been experiencing a massive influx of users and interest.

    #unrelated
    #everythingisfine

    1. Re:In Other News by xevioso · · Score: 0

      {citation needed}

    2. Re:In Other News by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Voat can barely keep up with the constantly increasing demand even without taking the constant DoS attacks into account, and they're starting to pull in outside funding.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    3. Re:In Other News by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Citation given. But considering that Voat has pretty much been under a DDoS since the 3th of the month when people threw a hissy fit because it's a reddit alternative there's a huge gap missing.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:In Other News by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      ...and they're starting to pull in outside funding.

      Wake us when this funding would fall under the rubric of "profitable advertising."

      Or "sustainable."

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    5. Re:In Other News by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Wake us when this funding would fall under the rubric of "profitable advertising." Or "sustainable."

      Well that's sure not reddit, then again you have to ask how they could run a site for years and still need VC to be sustainable. But considering the push that Pao made to can anyone who refused to move to San Fran, it looks like the main VC company behind them want to cash out now.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:In Other News by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Which means that we'll just see this play out all over again when they decide that they want to make money. The outside funding doesn't care about ideals, freedoms, or anything outside of getting a good return on investment.

  4. The real question by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

    The real question is if advertisers will buy it, and Reddit's reputation will be restored enough to keep the money flowing.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:The real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, the real question is when Dice will sell Slashdot to Reddit. There are way too many stories about them here to believe something is not up.

    2. Re:The real question by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      It's probably no more sinister than posting these stories and having people talk crap about Reddit and their issues means that they aren't complaining about Beta, Bennett Hassleton, or whatever else people typically complain about.

  5. Vile Content: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These types of content are prohibited:

    • o Spam
    • o Anything illegal (i.e. things that are actually illegal, such as copyrighted material. Discussing illegal activities, such as drug use, is not illegal)
    • o Publication of someone’s private and confidential information
    • o Anything that incites harm or violence against an individual or group of people (it's ok to say "I don't like this group of people." It's not ok to say, "I'm going to kill this group of people.")
    • o Anything that harasses, bullies, or abuses an individual or group of people (these behaviors intimidate others into silence)
    • o Sexually suggestive content featuring minors
    • o AGW skeptism
    1. Re:Vile Content: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      o AGW skeptism

      Good troll try, but try again...

    2. Re:Vile Content: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope that's a whoosh, and GP was trying to illustrate a common tactic. If you're not for banning AGW scepticism, then you're for child porn, death threats, revenge porn, etc.

    3. Re:Vile Content: by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 1

      "o Anything that harasses, bullies, or abuses an individual or group of people"

      90% of the comments section of any political article. The other 10% are "I made $40,000 dollars last week using this one weird trick."**

      **Numbers pulled out of my ass, so if they stink, you know why......

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
  6. Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How will they determine what free speech is "abhorrent"? Anything that doesn't fit into the SJW group think?

    1. Re:Slippery Slope by Mashiki · · Score: 2
      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Slippery Slope by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you're defending /r/coontown?

      I'm defending free speech no matter how distasteful it is. Besides, there are worse like /r/cutecorpses or /r/shitredditsays that are actually worse. And I'll defend their right to be assholes and scum too. I realize that it's difficult for someone who probably doesn't live outside the US, and in turn doesn't actually know what "free speech" actually is to understand that.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're a misogynistic self-hating shitlord hell-bent on projection to get aroused?

    4. Re:Slippery Slope by iluvcapra · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By reddit's metaphysical rules, an SJW is just someone who you disagree with.

      Or perhaps more to the point: an SJW in anyone who has less Reddit karma than you, and fails to abide by the carefully-arbitrated deontological ethics of Reddit. Namely, to offend is Good, unless such offense is directed at the interests and peccadilloes of Redditors.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    5. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen brother!

    6. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live outside the US and understood all of that.

    7. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If anyone doesn't understand the meaning of "free speech", it would be someone championing private companies hosting private message boards allowing any and all content regardless of their personal or professional desires because the words "free speech" feels good to you.

    8. Re:Slippery Slope by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's got nothing to do with free speech. Reddit is a private web site, not a government one. They get to choose what content they want, just like you get to choose what content you want in your own home. You wouldn't let someone come into your house and scream obscenities all day, just to preserve their "freedom of speech", would you?

      Reddit's list seems perfectly reasonable. The only "controversial" part is their desire to get rid of content that would make a reasonable person feel threatened or unable to participate in the discussion. I highlighted "reasonable" because some idiots are claiming this will allow over-sensitive people to censor everything they don't like, or "SJWs" to simply claim offence and have things removed, but it clearly won't. The law uses this very same principal, e.g. for harassment and threats. If a "reasonable person" would feel threatened it's a crime, and a jury gets to make that judgement. No-one has come up with a better system so far.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Slippery Slope by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It has plenty to do with free speech, if you don't grasp that censorship exists at a government, business, publication, and personal level for whatever reason, you need to go spend more time out in the world. That means getting out of the country you live in.

      You seem to have a problem understanding the difference between private and public. And I'm sure you're going to go ah-ha, but reddit is private. True reddit is private, reddit also bills itself as a bastion of free speech, or did...at one point. Reddit also claimed they're not banning ideas, they also claimed they're only banning actions. Which is of course why they've banned people for ideas, and treading on their 'safe space' policy, which is of course a feels based policy.

      And you go ask the mod of Neofag who was shadowbanned* for asking for the sub to be unbanned because they never harassed anyone. So yes, that was a ban because of 'reasons.' And subs like SRS and Gamerghazi are already trying to get subs banned because of feelings, and things they don't like. There's no threat to them, or other people...it's all things contrary to their feelings. In their world, hurt feelings are "what is reasonable to protect themselves from."

      *Neofag was a circle-jerk sub.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    10. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is really, really ironic after the Ellen Pao pitchfork campaign that it turns out she was the only one at Reddit management fighting against censorship (and not involved in the firing of Victoria). These Reddit users attacked the only one that was actually on their side in this whole mess.

      Yishan Wong, Ex-Reddit CEO, Says Ellen Pao Was Only Exec 'Who Tried Stopping The Changes'

    11. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a private company, Reddit can define free speech to be whatever they want. Deal with it.

    12. Re:Slippery Slope by weilawei · · Score: 1

      If only I had mod points. +1, Insightful.

      I didn't quite get the bit about it being difficult for a person who wasn't outside the US to understand free speech (as I live in the US and understand what free speech is just fine). OTOHZ, I think about how many people in the US are in favor of more restrictions to curtail speech, and I hope that this is merely a local problem, and not a global one. Sadly, I doubt it.

    13. Re:Slippery Slope by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that Reddit should be forced to publish everything because to do otherwise would limit freedom of speech? What other commercial organisations does that apply to? Would they be compensated in any way?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:Slippery Slope by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have to do with *censorship*, but it's still related to free speech. In fact, we're now at a point where this is being lost on a lot of folks- that if you provide a platform where anyone can express any thought, that you are somehow implicitly responsible for all those thoughts, and leaving them around is the same as approving of them.

      The wisdom of the greybeards is showing pretty sharply these days. The older, less centralized usenetty-style things didn't have anyone to stick a pitchfork in, so they couldn't be accused of this. While they obviously had their own issues, the assumption now is that any platform that permits people to say something, must agree with that thing.

      And frankly? As regards reddit, that's true. They've been banning stuff for years, and why would the same login have ever been usefully keyed to "download pictures of high school upskirts", "discuss literature", "scream about how some set of people suck inherently from the moment of their birth forward", and "post cat videos"? The idea that such free speech would exist at a single website is frankly kind of silly to begin with, because it just means that all the users won't be selected for any given criteria. This is well before you throw in whirlwind of destruction that is the voting system, but that's so insane I won't even talk about it here.

      They are trying to play both sides, and it is doomed to failure- but more importantly, it's kind of insulting. If these guys want to be information terrorists like 8chan and allow anyone to say anything that they can't personally be dragged to court over, then they need to wear that hat. They need to curse at their opposition and call them "moralfags", and all that jazz. If you are going to get dragged to hell for free speech, at least be wearing the Free Speech Jumpsuit. But that's not reddit- they are a corporation, they aren't a website. They have a brand. They have a hierarchy, a board of directors, and a CEO that they can hold up for everyone to throw darts. They claim that they are the "front page of the internet". When you do all that, and still have a board where everyone is so racist that they would get banned at *stormfront*, then YES THEY ARE IMPLICITLY APPROVING OF THAT BOARD. By choosing to allow that, but ban other things that are also legal, they are basically saying "ok, we think THIS thing is better than THAT thing". The whole idea is fucked for them, and has been from the start.

    15. Re:Slippery Slope by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      I think he's saying that the are claiming to have free speech, but this is trivially falsifiable. That they have things that they'll ban you for, raw speech.

      And the other side has even more ammo- once it is obvious that they *have* a decency standard, the question then becomes WHY THE FUCK IS IT SET WHERE IT IS?

    16. Re:Slippery Slope by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Of course not. But they should avoid limiting freedom of speech if said freedom is a large part of what makes them attractive to their audience (unless they want to completely change that audience).

    17. Re:Slippery Slope by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yes, in the same way ACLU was defending KKK and the American Nazi Party.

    18. Re:Slippery Slope by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      He likely meant the reverse, and dropped in an extra unneeded negation. US has one of the most permissive laws in the world with respect to free speech, especially the subcategories of it that are often labeled "hate speech" elsewhere. To that extent, the notion of prohibiting speech is much more acceptable in the rest of the world than it is here, and quite often you can see foreigners not understanding what the issue is about when discussing those fringe cases.

    19. Re:Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that Reddit should be forced to publish everything because to do otherwise would limit freedom of speech?

      He's saying the same thing feminists say about gender balance. Are feminists forcing companies to hire more women? No, but you can bet feminists wouldn't shut up and shame the hell out of companies who don't and/or go out of their way to not hire women.

      He's just doing the same thing and shaming Reddit.

    20. Re:Slippery Slope by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Yeah I don't trust anything coming out of Wong's mouth, mostly since the admins own words seem to be countering it. Like this and like this. In other words, the guy is a lying piece of shit.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    21. Re:Slippery Slope by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Bingo.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  7. Hide it well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Perhaps Reddit's owners/creators can go back to creating a bunch of fake Reddit users and posts like they use to do. That might help hide posts they don't want anyone to see.

  8. Can someone answer me this? by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't understand why the following doesn't solve all discussion board problems with trolls. OK here goes:

    1) the ability to declare someone either interesting or a troll (or neither) and have such cumulative count public.

    2) have the option to hide from your view all posts by poster X

    3) have the option to hide all poster's posts hidden by one or more posters you think are interesting

    4) have a reputation report available on each poster, including yourself, on how many or what % of posters are hiding that posters posts and how many of those posters you marked interesting.

    Done.
    \
    RESULT:

    1) you can learn from long timers who the trolls are and inherit their preferences.

    2) you can block someone without declaring him to be a troll

    3) you can see how people see you. Trolls whose posts aren't seen go away.

    Slashdot has something like this in prototype. But it seems simple to me. Implement that and you're basically done.

    Seriously, what am I missing?

    1. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're underestimating the ability of people to make new accounts on a whim.

    2. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Sowelu · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you have to manually block people, then you're going to get a lot of fly-by abuse from new accounts that people make to dodge the block lists.

      If the system allows users to say "auto-hide all people from my screen who have a 50% troll rating or higher", you're going to get a lot of people abusing the system. It's REALLY, REALLY common on political discussion sites for users to dogpile on people whose opinions they don't like and flag them as trolls, and often they use bots to do it more efficiently.

    3. Re:Can someone answer me this? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing with Reddit is there is just a +/- system. There is no taxonomy in why you moderate someone + or -.Everyone also gets an equal vote, which for some types of discussion, is best.

      With Slashdot points are randomly distributed and you can't both moderate and comment, which is appropriate for other types of discussion.. In that way Slashdot got a lot of things right.

      The problem neither site is a one size fits all solution for moderation. For actual tech discussion I want Slashdot's moderation. For pictures of Cats I want Reddit's.

      Slashdot's moderation and "Anonymous Coward" account also prevented bandwagoning on the Brianna Wu Interview despite her trying to get her twitter followers to do exactly that. They didn't have the same power that they did on Reddit or Twitter so they really didn't affect the conversation.

      Usenet just needed a good moderation system built on top of it.

      Personally I wouldn't be opposed to 3 separate types of 'moderation' that can be enabled/disabled.

      - No moderation. 4Chan, Usenet

      - Everyone gets to moderation Reddit

      - Not everyone gets to moderate. Slashdot. Mod points are handed out at random.

      Each have their advantages or disadvantages. The "inline sharing" is something that should be done client side anyway. After using reddit for a few years and coming back to Slashdot I realize how much more I like markdown for just doing forum posts. Not that I have a problem with HTML but it takes a bit longer to type out the same content. Add a web front end and call it a day.

      The best part is if you made it a RFC people could run their own usenet circles. I would love to get a slashdot replacement going outside of corporate control. If you host nodes in a few countries it would be hard to take down. (It's how Usenet was designed).

      I'm ready to jump ship from Reddit and Slashdot to somewhere else and would prefer if that somewhere else was a protocol rather than a specific site.

      It's kind of come to a head now that there is nothing really left for people to just discuss stuff. Slashdot sold out to Dice. Fark and Reddit sold out to SJWs and "mainstream". Voat is just reimplementing Reddit, but poorly (IMHO).

      Why isn't 'moderation' in a RFC yet? It's something that could probably be nailed out by now as we've tried multiple different methods.

      I personally prefer Slashdot's style of moderation for most things. (Where its limited to -2 to +5, and you have taxonomy built in). But for some things I prefer Reddit's where everyone gets a vote. Let people write their own implementations of the RFC and let anyone incorporate it into their website. Slashdot and Reddit are open source in the same way that OpenSSL was. Technically open source but such a pain in the ass to get running & modify for most people it wasn't worth it (and we see how that turned out).

      The nice thing about it being an RFC is that most of this stuff can be implemented client side. I can write my own app to discuss things. NNTP just needed distributed moderation like Slashdot.

    4. Re:Can someone answer me this? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That can be mitigated with 2 things:

      Reddit needs an "Anonymous Coward" account so that people don't have to create throwaways for every single thing they don't want to post under their main account.

      Reddit needs to limit moderation rights. The problem with Reddit is everyone gets a vote. With Slashdot mod points are distributed based on Karma. (And it actually meant something), you can also not vote and comment in the same thread.

      Anonymous cowards always start at +0. Registered accounts always start at +1. But just because you register a dozen Slashdot accounts doesn't mean you get to moderate what other people get to say on a new thread.

    5. Re:Can someone answer me this? by ctid · · Score: 1

      Slashdot's moderation and "Anonymous Coward" account also prevented bandwagoning on the Brianna Wu Interview despite her trying to get her twitter followers to do exactly that.

      Did Brianna Wu try to get her followers to "bandwagon" the Slashdot discussion in some other tweet? The one that you linked to does not do that or anything like it. Perhaps you could clarify?

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    6. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) the ability to declare someone either interesting or a troll (or neither) and have such cumulative count public.

      Troll moderation will be used for legitimate posts that people disagree with (see Slashdot).

      2) have the option to hide from your view all posts by poster X

      If some of the posts are missing from a discussion it can be hard to follow that discussion.

      3) have the option to hide all poster's posts hidden by one or more posters you think are interesting

      See 2.

      4) have a reputation report available on each poster, including yourself, on how many or what % of posters are hiding that posters posts and how many of those posters you marked interesting.

      This will stifle discussion. Some views can be perfectly legitimate but very unpopular. If people who making legitimate but unpopular posts find that everyone is hiding them they'll probably stop posting. At that point all you'll have is an echo room full of people who agree with each other.

      Here's a better solution:
      1) No posts every get censored unless they're spam (e.g. I made $5000 just sitting at my computer) or illegal (based on some sane countries law, i.e. most definitely not the UK's laws)

      I'm consistently amazed how people don't like free, open discussion and want to censor/hide anything they don't agree with. If you can't handle that people have different views than you then you should avoid online discussion entirely.

    7. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Khashishi · · Score: 2

      You are assuming a person is a troll or not a troll.

    8. Re:Can someone answer me this? by mrbester · · Score: 1

      And if you've been around long enough and contributed by moderating it's +2. I turned mine back down to +1 down ages ago, but not because I didn't think I'd earned it.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    9. Re:Can someone answer me this? by buckfeta2014 · · Score: 0, Funny

      And yet some of us go from +3 to -1 so quickly, it's not funny. I haven't been able to mod in like 4 months.

      --
      Buck Feta. You know what to do.
    10. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Atzanteol · · Score: 2

      I always thought /.'s moderation system was pretty clever like that. It rewards commitment. Stackexchange has taken it a bit further and limits the type of things you can do until you gain some "creds" by participating on the site (can only mod up until you get the "right" to mod down). I don't know why these systems aren't more common? The childish trolls don't have the patience to gain trust and those who commit to a site are the sort of community you want to foster.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    11. Re:Can someone answer me this? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      You are missing basic rules of grammar when you say things like "answer me this".

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    12. Re:Can someone answer me this? by nickweller · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Seriously, what am I missing?"

      This bit, it's called brigading ..

      What is "brigading" and how do you do it?

    13. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      SRS would brigade the shit out of the system making it useless.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    14. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Last+Warrior · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is not a troll. Ive been on /. for a very long time. I left /. for a very long time and came back more recently. /. has a niche. even with that people still complain about the moderation system here.
      Are you guys (and gals) seriously implying that reddit should basically be turned into /.
      Aside from the stupidity that they are currently embroiled in, I can't see another way to more effectively destroy reddit than to try to implement the /. principles there.
      Reddit is a social site first and then a news and information site second. To leave moderation in the hands of a few select people takes most of the social aspects away from people.

      The strength of reddit is in the community and not in the content. there is probably as much or more garbage that goes through reddit as good and interesting content. The benefit is that the worst of it is obscured through a subscription model where you only subscribe to the groups that you are interested in.
      Moderators already have to much power and pull there. and The shadowbanning nonsense, while i can understand the original intent, is being abused by people with power to silence people they disagree with.

      Im a member of both of these communities. What reddit does now is going to determine whether they go the way of the dodo (Digg) or they continue to be a viable social community for discussion of any topics of interest to people. Hate groups can stay in their little silos and feel like they can have their free expression as long as it doesn't trickle out into unrelated groups. Subscribing to those groups should come with a stern warning or two to make sure that people with sensibilities know to avoid it.

      I cant stand the hate and vitriol. The hate groups are a blemish on the internet and the world. But if people start banning that speech, that means they have the power to ban other unpopular speech or even people they disagree with.

    15. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Last+Warrior · · Score: 2

      I think it would be great if they reigned in the whole shadow-banning nonsense to only allow it in the case of spam. if something is spam and it is verified to be spam, then the post goes away. But no longer allowing shadow-banning for anything else. even if that something else is vile or repugnant. There are other ways to deal with that content.

      Maybe the mods in a group can't delete a vile comment but they can moderate it down below a threshold that will cause it to not be visible by default unless the user wishes to read below that threshold.
      maybe that threshold would be -100 so it would take a great many normal users to get a message below the threshold.
      Just a thought. there may be some pitfalls with this approach also. It is more favorable than the approach they seem to be taking though.

    16. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      your a troll ;^)

    17. Re:Can someone answer me this? by fisted · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mod points are handed out at random.

      No, it's linked to karma

    18. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    19. Re:Can someone answer me this? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because you would have nothing but groupthink as well as groups targeting individuals?

      Not to toot my own horn but many of my posts are modded up, I guess because there are plenty of folks that appreciate somebody that doesn't pull their punches or sugarcoat their words in bullshit. I sit in my little shop, run tests, talk to folks, and report what I see trending around me. So why would your system be a problem? Because a certain faction here fucking HATES me, hatred to the point I was cyberstalked for over a year by one member of this faction who must have spent a good 12 hours a day doing nothing but searching the net for every place I posted just so he could spam "die you fat fucker die" over and over and over.

      So what you would have is one group saying "We do not like this person, lets erase him" and then it wouldn't matter what this person posted large numbers would mark him troll and block him, which by your system would allow them to erase this person from the place. At least here we have metamods that tend to undo some, not all, of obvious modding based on the person not the content, but if they implemented your system all they would have to do is keep pounding and they could just wipe any person they didn't like from sight, not something you want to hand out to just anybody.

      Come to think of it, one of the new sites I have been hanging out at tried something similar. Instead of the usual karma what they have is a points system. You make a popular post? You get points. You start at I think 25 and max out at 50, but where they screwed up was trying out this idea that every downmod would cost not only the modder a point but the one that was downmodded as well, and that once you went below a certain threshold your posts were automatically placed at zero and you didn't get any mod points.....can you guess what went wrong?

      What went wrong was a radical SJW then joined the site and tried to make it an SJW haven. I know that the name SJW is sometimes thrown around without care, but in this case? We are talking about a white beta male that advocated the extermination of the white race and that only whites should be charged with hate crimes because of "historical racism" so...yeah classic SJW. He then took a page out of the classic Slashdot "Mikey(insert number)" playbook and made a shitload of accounts, posted just enough positive copypasta in each account to get them modded high enough to get mod points then proceeded to modbomb like there was no tomorrow. Things quickly soured there, some of the most popular posters ended up bailing, until finally the mods caught on and shut down his sockpuppet army and took away his rights to mod.

      So the moral of the story? The reason why "great ideas" like yours haven't been tried is because you are not looking at it from the POV of an attacker. You ALWAYS have to look at these things from the angle of "If I wanted to wreck the site, how can I use this to my advantage?". Too many times you look at things like this and assume the users have the best intentions while forgetting there are probably just as many seriously unbalanced douchebags as there is legit users out there, so you have to plan accordingly.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    20. Re:Can someone answer me this? by _merlin · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      No it isn't. There's something else at work. I've had almost no comments downmodded in years, I get upmodded regularly, I real Slashdot every day, yet I haven't got mod points in a year or so. I have no idea why, I used to get mod points occasionally. But it's stopped completely now.

    21. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Gamergate. Upper middle class executives do not like people questioning their primary advertising demographic - middle class women. Last time I bothered with Reddit it had devolved into a meeting of over emotional middle class, mostly white, american women busy making Rachel Dolezal look sane. No other single demographic can equal it for size, spare time, wealth and opinions on anything.

    22. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because you murdered that little girl last year. Did you think we wouldn't find out?

    23. Re:Can someone answer me this? by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lot of thoughtful comments inthese replies.

      I don't see that anyone could brigade away anyone else since it's up to the end user who to remove from view. I am not suggesting people marked trolls be auto-disappeared without the end user deciding to take that action. Remember, the same thing happens here- people get modded down and who has /. set to view the 0 rated comments? (does anyone?)

      I agree that auto creation of sock puppet accounts is troublesome. I read recently where this many tens of millions of accounts on FB are simply fake.

      Nevertheless it seems to me that we should be able to auto-recognize fake accounts. Brigading comments (using secondary accounts for sniping and down voting) should therefore be an identifiable event, to some probability.

      I can't believe we can't use the sysadmin's god's eye view of all comments to win this war- it's clearly an asymmetric advantage.

      OK just talking about brigading, take two use cases one using sock pupet accounts , the other just ganging up.

      In the first case, instead providing a view that just says 50% of users think this comment is a troll (in pie graph form say) provide a view that gives that information AND ALSO a "factor in sock puppetry" overlay, which changes the pie graph to show non-sockpuppet percentages.

      Point is, you can't run forever. We can make realistic sock puppetry require a deep time investment. We can make recognition of sock puppets an easy thing and then your investment is gone in a flash. We dont' have to ban sock puppets, we just have to recognize them witha high degree of probability and include that as a datapoint available to users.

      Inthe second case where real humans are ganging up, we can detect coordination. People who act together *in certain ways* (to be defined, but don't tell me I can't do it) are highly likely to be coordinating. People who act together because of their shared world view but are not coordinating might look like they ARE coordination, but there are differences between those two cases involving timing and past behaviour etc. etc.

      It's not that problems can be felled with a single blow, it's that you can make it time-expensive to successfully engage in the kind of system rigging. You can even bring in outside facts about the world generally to act as a reality check to distinguish genuiine behaviour from non.

      It's just a variant of fraud detection, right, but without ever actually having to confront the fraudster (since you may be wrong and don't want to alienate honest users). You don't finger anyone, you let your users do that and then your other users decide and or learn to trust or not those user's judgments.

      I guess I feel like this is something people just don't want to invest in for some unknown (to me) reason . It appears that people do a little of this and that the hope for the best. That's the level of technology and sophistication we're bringing to it and I don't know why.

      Trolls and maurading bands of assholes are an issue but with enough data points- and sysadmins have datapoints - you can just run trolls and other bad behavior to exhaustion, make it too expensive in terms of time and too low in terms fo rewards. That's how the peace is kept in this world generally.

    24. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The strength of reddit is in the community and not in the content.

      It appears that the Reddit board agrees with you and that's why they're pushing these changes.

      A cynic might argue that "the community" is a giant circlejerk that's worthless in and of itself and the content changes are going to drive away users that put out quality content. And that quality, focused content was the reason that most people use the site. Guess we'll see which argument has the stronger standing.

    25. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there are way too many nut swingers and insecure people with group think in way to many forums. People that believe hanging out in a forum all day like they are actually part of something much bigger than it really is. Many forum users believe they rule the world but outside those forums, no one cares. And I mean NO ONE. Look at gamergate, that consumed so many people lives and free time and actually got a little notice outside the forums and still means absolutely nothing to probably 99.999999% of the people on the earth. Many of those that did hear about proably read a short piece on it and that was it. Its like the groupies or diehards that travel all around the country going to many of a specific groups concerts. Those people in that group with each other are the only ones that knows they actually did that.

    26. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Gazzonyx · · Score: 2

      I disagree with half the stuff you say, but I value your comments and still find great bits of insight in a lot of them. For instance, whenever you rant on Linux I usually read the entire post. Usually I agree with about a quarter of it, disagree with the rest and find things to think about on both accounts. I believe that you have a reasonable take even on things you don't necessarily like and usually avoid descending into 'troll' territory even when arguing. That's the kind of stuff I've only been able to find on Slashdot and why I keep coming back.

      BTW, have you run your yearly "try Linux again" experiment recently? If not, don't bother with Fedora 22 - as a developer and avid Linux user/committer I can tell you it's pure crap driven by UX dorks. Very nearly completely unusable. Try a SUSE Linux build next time around. They haven't completely jumped the shark yet and still provide a reasonable, user friendly, stable build.

      --

      If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.

    27. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is more to it than just karma, there's random luck and there's meta-moderation. If you used your mod points in ways that are later meta-moderated as being "unfair", then I believe you can get shit-listed by the system. If that's not the case, then I believe if you get mod points and don't use them, your chances of getting future mod points decreases. Doing meta moderation also increases the chances of getting mod points, I believe.

    28. Re:Can someone answer me this? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well this is why I've never actually blocked anybody, hell until recently I had no idea about this whole "friend/foe" crap because honestly the thought never even crossed my mind that there would be a reason to label someone a "foe" simply because I didn't agree with their post.

      I'm getting ready to move but once I'm settled in I'll be happy to try it with SUSE if you like but I hate to break the news to ya....its gonna fail. The problem is Torvalds driver model which worked fine in 1993 when every Linux driver could fit on a floppy simply does NOT scale to handle the literally tens of thousands of drivers that are now required of a modern OS. Look at this SUSE chart and compare it to Windows. Now if I take the oldest currently supported Windows OS, Vista, I can take the RTM and patch it to current and will have NO drivers break, for SUSE to do the same thing (thanks to how short the average Linux support cycle is) you would have to start with SUSE 10 and go aaaalll the way through to SUSE 12, that is NINE releases that you would have to upgrade to. I bet my last dollar that if I try this? Its gonna break, because Torvalds driver model is just too brittle to handle that many changes.

      Its a thousand times worse with something like Ubuntu, which ironically is called the "user friendly" Linux as you would have to go from 6.10 to 15.04 because remember Canonical says that LTS is NOT for consumers but for business, which means consumers is expected to go through FOURTEEN upgrades in just the time Vista has been on the market! Even if you ignore Canonical and go LTS you are still looking a four upgrades which I can tell you from actually trying it what you'll get at the end is a broken mess!

      If people want to call me names, or cyberstalk me like the "fat fuck" troll did? Go right ahead, but I made the Hairyfeet Challenge for a reason and that reason was simple...create a completely 100% bias free objective test to see if Linux can be a functional desktop when compared to Windows and I'm sorry but...it just can't and it all comes down to Torvalds refusing to let go of a broken driver model because...reasons. I mean anybody can do this test, you yourself can complete it within a few hours using any old box or laptop lying around or grabbed for a few bucks off of CL and all it asks of Linux frankly should be things that should be able to be taken for granted, like "if I keep this thing updated with the latest security patches will it remain functional?" and the answer is a big fat nope.

      So if I made you think, or look at something from a different view, even if you thought I was full of shit? I'm glad. Sadly as I learned recently from coming into contact with some SJWs the younger generation really doesn't value speech or interaction with others of differing views, they want an echo chamber that reinforces their narrow views. Me personally I'd rather spend 10 hours arguing politics in a room with neo-nazis, black panthers, and bible thumpers than 10 minutes trapped in a room with an SJW, as at least the above groups don't try to take away anybody's right to disagree.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:Can someone answer me this? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      a radical SJW

      You used a redundant word there. You can drop the word radical as it does not contribute or add any meaning to the word it follows.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    30. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Bathroom+Humor · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it would be feasible to have a merged slashdot/reddit kind of moderation.
      Everyone gets a certain number of unbiased votes every day, sort of like how Voat is doing it, to help avoid voting spam. 100 or so votes per day (maybe more depending on how much a user reads on the site over time), but they don't have any bias to them. They just basically add weight.
      Is a comment or post interesting, well thought out, something you agree with a lot, or even something you disagree with or think is trolling? Add weight to it.
      The weight makes these posts easier to find if people wish to sort a thread by most weight, which comes in handy for the lucky few who gain mod points. And these mod points are actual biased either positive or negative, with a range of -2 to -5, like on /.
      Also much like on /. the mod points are handed out mostly at random, but also depending on how much positive mod points are attributed to your posts and submissions, as well as how much of the site you read. Hopefully enough to reward good posting, but not encourage too much of a hivemind. And the limited number of mod points also causes people to not squander them (again, this is the plan).
      And of course, those who use mod points cannot post in the same discussion.

    31. Re:Can someone answer me this? by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      >>So the moral of the story? ...
      >>the mods caught on and shut down his sockpuppet army and took away his rights to mod.

      Isn't that the moral of the story? Fraud detected,action taken, troll defeated, more datapoints and patterns discovered to help detect future possible fraud.

      Sure, he got one in on you, but getting off a sucker punch is not winning a battle.

      Thanks for the feedback about what attackers are liable to try, of course soliciting that knowledge from the crowd was the purpose of my original post. I feel like I advanced my knwledge and I hope some other interested readers feel the same.

    32. Re:Can someone answer me this? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      And there is still a component of randomness.

      I've had 'excellent' Karma for years but it would still be months before I had points and then some times I would be awash in them.

    33. Re:Can someone answer me this? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      That's why I think there needs to be a moderation RFC with everything we've learned about moderation of internet discussion over the last 40 years.

      When discussing some social things everyone should get to moderate. However when discussing science, math, technology.

      I also think there should be some sort of statistical regression like Slashdot had with meta moderation.

      Voat just looks like a rehash of Reddit with some incremental improvements but not things I would like to see.

    34. Re:Can someone answer me this? by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      It's not linked to karma, at least, not significantly. The algorithm uses a number of factors, including your overall meta moderation score (and, oddly enough, meta moderating is itself a factor - if you meta moderate regularly you're more likely to be picked.) At one point Malda also included - and it may still be there - logic based upon how frequently you visit Slashdot, trying to avoid either picking rare visitors or heavy visitors, to moderate.

      If you have 50 karma, I can say from experience you're no more likely to get moderation privileges than if you have 25. In fact, the very behavior that got you to 50 in the first place is likely to count against you. It's designed that way because Malda didn't want groupthink to be an issue.

      It's not perfect, there's a lot of bad moderation going on, but I can't fault what Malda was trying to achieve.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    35. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Pablopelos · · Score: 1

      I would totally agree with every site has its place. I think Reddit ownership realized that the visitors are really what was powering the site, and that they had little control over the direction of the sites future. They are now trying to control visitors and pick up some monetization, but they will lose a percent of the audience, only time will tell the balancing of control for Reditt.

    36. Re:Can someone answer me this? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Reddit is a social site first and then a news and information site second. To leave moderation in the hands of a few select people takes most of the social aspects away from people.

      They're trying to be both. I would much prefer my Slashdot news over Reddit. Reddit, by virtue of being truly demographic (with an authoritarian police) will have multiple articles posted in multiple places. I liked that I had one central site to discuss the latest Tech article and that the comments within were voted mostly on their own merit and not by who made them or bandwagoning.

    37. Re:Can someone answer me this? by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      To leave moderation in the hands of a few select people [...]

      That's not how Slashdot works.

      Mod points aren't that hard to acquire: Get an account, don't be a dick and contribute something useful once in a while.
      Although I guess on Reddit such behavior might indeed only be expected from a select few ;-)

    38. Re:Can someone answer me this? by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      The thing is, those moderation systems are both MORE COMMON and are SUPERIOR. The issue is simpler: the reddit style of setup is there *to create conflict*. Slashdot is an internet town square, where the crier stops by and hear-ye hear-yes and everyone talks about the topic for a bit. Stackexchange is an internet guild hall, where you keep your conversation on topic and those with the most credibility (usually deserved, but sometimes not) get a louder voice and longer time at the podium.

      But reddit is an internet dueling ground where everyone goes to face off. For every two people having some internet fight, a zillion more watch. The reason it exploded wasn't because it was a superior discussion system- nerds made better ones at the dawn of the net, and they are still here. The reason it exploded is that they figured out how to play their users against each other. Reddit's system is awful by design, because their goal isn't to make for conversation, it's to make for clicks and fights and play off that end of the emotional spectrum.

    39. Re:Can someone answer me this? by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      "The strength of reddit is in the community and not in the content."

      There's no reddit community.

      Coontown hates primarily Blacks, and also to some extent Jews. Don't like it? Why, there's another sub that hates primarily Jews, and also to some extent Blacks. See, diversity! Meanwhile, there's a zillion political boards, each with their own slant. That hate each other. Then there's this whole Gender War going on, and there's a bunch of red pill subs that all say they hate reddit, and there's the SRS sub that hates everyone ON reddit, and that is NOT a fucking community. That's a deliberately set of tribal boundaries. It's meant to start fights, which it does.

      Reddit doesn't have a community- it's an extended melee where some people haven't been punched enough to stay down yet.

    40. Re:Can someone answer me this? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well I'm afraid I do not know a term that infers a higher level than batshit when it comes to a group. Even in SJW circles there is batshit and there is supreme high batshit, but I really have no term that can be prefixed to SJW to reflect that...any ideas?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    41. Re:Can someone answer me this? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Presumably everyone who still goes there is enjoying it, so... what's the problem?

    42. Re:Can someone answer me this? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      > The reason it exploded wasn't because it was a superior discussion system- nerds made better ones at the dawn of the net, and they are still here.

      They did make some incremental improvements. I love Markdown now. I stopped writing HTML ages ago for my own blog. Reddit is much easier to use in terms of adding formatting to text.

      Coming back to Slashdot I realized how tedious doing full mark up was just to add some emphasis or a URL. I also like that with RES you can view images inline. I wish that there was a script to automatically show the first paragraph of a wiki article if you hovered over a complex term.

      And where Reddit does work is in smaller groups. There's a threshold for a subreddit where everything just goes to shit. My wife loves hanging out on /r/babybumps, /r/parenting & /r/clothdiapering because it's a place where she can sit and chat with other women about parenting. There's no reason for full slashdot moderation there. Reddit's 'everyone votes' system works just fine. But that's because there isn't a "/r/disposablediapers" subreddit that comes in to brigade what they say, argue endlessly, etc.

      I'll restate the same thing I've been stating for a few months: I want a new *protocol*, not a new site. A RFC that outlines comment moderation, story submission, etc. I want a C/C++ stack that I can deploy on my own server to roll my own Slashdot or Reddit. NNTP was good for its time but had its flaws (moderation). I want a stand alone app (then again I still use Thunderbird over a webmail) for discussion. I want it to be decentralized

      Reddit's system is awful by design, because their goal isn't to make for conversation, it's to make for clicks and fights and play off that end of the emotional spectrum.

      Reddit figured out fanning flame wars was more profitable. Twitter too.

      When Brianna Wu tried to get her echo chamber to ask her the questions she wanted to answer in her Interview it didn't work.

      Most people here have been isolated from "GamerGate" attributing it to "Reddit/Twitter Drama" but it's now been spilling over to Slashdot (because it's profitable for Dice) and even to the FreeBSD project (Because of Randi Harper). However people have found out that it's also profitable to be a professional victim which is why you're seeing it everywhere now, they need a bigger audience to fund their patreons

      - https://www.patreon.com/freebs...
      - https://www.patreon.com/user?u...

      I wish Grace Hopper was still alive to tell this new group to STFU and GBTW.

    43. Re:Can someone answer me this? by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      Malda also included - and it may still be there - logic based upon how frequently you visit Slashdot, trying to avoid either picking rare visitors or heavy visitors, to moderate.

      It's still there. I check the site twice a day and never get any points. When I go on a trip and only get to check it once (at best), I come home to mod points.

    44. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting how this completely false comment about moderation and karma is modded up to +4, but of the two messages that, correctly, state it's wrong, one is barely modded up at all, the other has been modded down.

      How ironic! I'm guessing this means the moderator selection algorithm on Slashdot might not be working very well?...

    45. Re:Can someone answer me this? by fisted · · Score: 1

      [mod points] linked to karma

      completely false

      (intentionally blank)

      Maybe it is like it is because most of the people realize that it is indeed mostly linked to karma. The responders trying to make it look like I had claimed to be completely deterministic are tearing down straw-men.
      If you think the people responding to a given post are representative of the prevailing opinion on /., then I've got a bridge to sell to you.

    46. Re:Can someone answer me this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not "mostly linked to karma", it's barely linked to karma. Both the responses to your false statement pointed that out.

      The main factors are: do you log in on average as frequently as the average (probably median) Slashdotter, and do you have a good or neutral metamoderation score.

      Karma barely factors into it.

    47. Re:Can someone answer me this? by fisted · · Score: 1

      The main factors are: do you log in on average as frequently as the average (probably median) Slashdotter

      My experience doesn't support that point. I've been logged for ages. My karma has been "Excellent" for a longish time.
      My meta-moderation score can't be particularly good, as I'm sharing quite a bunch of unpopular opinions, and also tend to give the occasional troll some credit where deserved. So if what you say is true, I should not be getting much opportunity to moderate. Yet I frequently drown in mod points, 15 at a time.

      , and do you have a good or neutral metamoderation score.

      Oh and there's the catch-22 that you're not going to be meta-moderated before you had a chance to moderate in the first place. But hey, let's ignore the pesky details, right?

    48. Re:Can someone answer me this? by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      I've always thought that an almagamation of the generic up/down (shown as Ars Technica does, where you see cumulative, total up, and total down) and Slashdot's karma system would be best. The up/down would show the overall approval or disapproval of a comment, but the Karma moderation is what hides it or brings it to the front. Thus you can understand the overall community's feelings (if that matters to you) but still have unpopular-yet-interesting posts rise. Up/down would not affect a user's Karma in any way.

      This might have the extra benefit of making people use Offtopic/Troll for their actual purpose, rather than using them as "-1, Dislike". Won't stop that completely, but giving them a more representative outlet would likely lower such antics.

  9. Laugh by koan · · Score: 2

    Because viles where the money is?

    Seriously strange decision.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  10. This summary is wrong, they are banning content by guises · · Score: 4, Informative

    Reddit introducing three tier content tiers: approved / hidden / banned. They announced that they would hide some of the undesirable content, as the summary said, but they are outright banning other content - they gave the example of /r/rapingwomen as a subreddit which would be banned, not hidden.

    The differentiator between a sub to be banned and a sub to be hidden is officially the promotion of violence. Given the unlikelihood they that would start banning subs like /r/justiceporn though, the real differentiator is probably better characterized as: "subs which we don't like and which also have a violence theme."

    1. Re:This summary is wrong, they are banning content by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's more generally about whether the content is illegal or incites illegal activity.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    2. Re:This summary is wrong, they are banning content by guises · · Score: 1

      No, they specifically mentioned legality: subs which contain illegal content (e.g.: copyrighted material) would be banned, but subs discussing illegal activities (e.g.: the use of drugs) would not be.

    3. Re:This summary is wrong, they are banning content by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      I read (some of) a sociology paper that looked at violence in legalized prostitution. One of the things that struck me as odd was the explicit declaration that STD transmission, whether intentional or not, was investigated as a form of "violence". While getting an STD is a real concern for that industry, and not a good thing in any way, I think that labeling it as "violence" does a huge disservice to those who suffer actual violence. It's not that much of a stretch, I suppose, as harm is actually inflicted, but then you could define a pop fly ball hitting a fan on the head as violence, or parking in a handicap-only spot and forcing someone who actually is handicap to park farther away (a douche move, but not violence.)

      So the staff at Reddit don't even need "subs which we don't like", they can just start labeling things they find uncomfortable as a definition of "violence".

    4. Re:This summary is wrong, they are banning content by guises · · Score: 1

      Well, they did say that they would ban some subs dedicated to showing pictures of corpses under the same pretext. I haven't been to any of those subs, so I just let that slide, but that could be as you describe. Just showing a dead body may be distasteful, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with violence.

  11. Freedom of Speech? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Why is this tagged "freespeech" ? It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, as the site in question is privately run. Nothing that Reddit is proposing/doing prevents anyone else from saying what they will on their own web site. The notion of free speech revolves around the constitution's requirement that the government (not counting cases of actually illegal stuff, as mentioned above) can't step in an tell Reddit how to set their editorial policies. Hiding a fat shaming forum? Reddit is free to do so, and nobody's freedom to go out and talk all they want about fat people in their own or some other venue. Having the government ban fat shaming content? Then we'd be talking about a free speech issue.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Free speech doesn't have anything to do with a constitution. It's worldwide, not American.

    2. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except when the now ceo said it was all about it. but now he wants money. advertisers get weird about 'taboo' subjects, so less money.

      its not free speech its hypocrisy...

      basically 'freedom', but now we have eyballs and need revenue streams... now it is curated and family friendly. missing the point why 'everyone' was there... rightfully the audience is upset because this is not what they were sold.

      some are okay with it. because it fits there worldview of 'disagree ban it'

      welp my popcorn bowl is literally empty so i am done.

    3. Re:Freedom of Speech? by ckatko · · Score: 5, Informative

      You're actually correct... contrary to the hivemind. The US constitution protects the Freedom of Speech from government interference. It didn't create the idea, it protects it.

      Likewise, in most societies, Freedom of Speech is a cultural law. It's assumed. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" was from Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906. Going all the way back, Athens, had the Freedom of Speech in the 5th century B.C.. The Romans also had Freedom of Speech. It's also apart of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and binding on all UN member states.

      Just because the USA government's constitution only protects the Freedom of Speech from itself, doesn't mean it's not fucking important, worth fighting for, or a real thing outside of the government interactions.

      Moreover, Freedom of Speech does move into the private sector in certain situations. Such as the landmark Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins case of 1980. In California, per their additional state constitutional wording, you can exercise your right to free speech in private shopping centers as long as you are peaceful. Many states have similar wording but have not followed as they are worried about the implications. But the point remains, the idea that "Freedom of Speech" means nothing except with regard to the USA federal government is a stupid lie.

    4. Re:Freedom of Speech? by stinerman · · Score: 1

      You'd figure if people believe the CEO is such a hypocrite, they'd quit using the service. For some reason they believe that the website is somehow theirs. It isn't. They're just providing free content.

      The real issue here is that people who want to discuss controversial topics are pissed that their megaphone is being taken away and they incorrectly believe that because the dude gave them a megaphone one day, he can't take it away the next. It all boils down to "my ideas are unpopular and its unfair that someone will not continue to subsidize them."

    5. Re:Freedom of Speech? by ckatko · · Score: 3, Informative
      I forgot to mention this quote from the UN resolution:

      Article 19 states that "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

    6. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Because it's "censorship" whether done by private or public entity.

      Then you are free to take your money elsewhere. Oh, you don't pay for their servers? Then shut up.

    7. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ^ Of course in the current state of things if you should exercise your "free speech" right to tell a cop to go f*ck himself, you might wind up being granted the right to a speedy burial, while said cop gets a 2 week paid vacation and then cleared of all charges.

    8. Re:Freedom of Speech? by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      reddit is coming down hard on progressives.

      How? So, you've gone out and created your own web site where you can "progressive" yourself all day long on any topic you like ... how are the people that run Reddit's private web site interfering with you running your own web site? Please be specific. If you don't provide clear evidence of how Reddit is preventing you from running your own web site as you see fit, then ask yourself what you really mean.

      Never mind, I'll tell you what you REALLY want. You want other people to be your web site platform finance and operation slaves so that you don't have to go to the trouble and expense that OTHER people have gone to so you can have the same reach as people who've bothered. In other words, you're being exactly like a typical progressive/liberal: you think you are owed somebody else's time and work just because you exist. You're basically in favor of slavery, where someone else spends part of their daily waking hours to be forced to provide you with something expensive that you want, but aren't willing to build yourself. Classic.

      Those of us that are adults understand this is a free speech issue.

      No, you mean that those of you who are immature and feeling entitled to someone else's work and resources are pretending that someone else not being in the mood to spend their own time and money in the manner that you stamp your feet and insist they should ... is the same as the government actually interfering with your speech. You have the entire issue 100% backwards. Of course you know this, and you're just trying to wrap your demand for slave labor in rhetoric that you hope other equally wrong-headed people will mistake for being virtuous.

      So, please explain how Reddit's storm troopers have shut down your web site. Ready for the details when you're ready to exhibit a little intellectual honesty.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    9. Re:Freedom of Speech? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      They even claim nonwhites are only 3/5 of a person according to it.

      So what you're saying is that you don't actually know what the constitution says.

      Believing free speech only applies to the government is racist.

      Wow, you've also got a profound reading comprehension problem to go with your inability to reason.

      Free speech doesn't "apply" to the government (you idiot), the constitution's first amendment exists to protect your free speech FROM the government. The constitution is, as it should be, completely silent on what you personally should or shouldn't say on your own private web site or other publication.

      Your pathetic attempt to somehow play the race card, in order to avoid being the slightest bit actually informed on the subject, shows how poorly your mind is working on this subject. You confuse protection from interference by the government with the exact opposite. You're pretending to confuse a matter that has nothing to do with race with being somehow racist, because you're too intellectually lazy to address the fact that you're uninformed and confused.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    10. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Joining the troll buffet, what gives your freedom to complain about him more validity than his freedom to complain about reddit?

      Don't like him? Go start your own website and ban him. The reality is that reddit is free to ban whatever they want, and the rest of us are free to complain.

      BTW, that AC is an obvious troll, he posts about "the way of their kind" in every goddamned story. YHBT.

    11. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like the average mind these days, it's a losing battle.

    12. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said. Except it also applies to typical conservatives/republicans too.

    13. Re:Freedom of Speech? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      what gives your freedom to complain about him more validity than his freedom to complain about reddit?

      Because I'm pointing out that he's being whiny and irrational in his complaint that Reddit isn't being "fair" in having an editorial policy related to how they run their own web site. His complaint: it's isn't right for people to be able to run their own web sites as they see fit. My complaint: that his complaint is without merit, and is in fact a symptom of a great deal of what's wrong with contemporary society, vis-a-vis the Gimme Dat lefty entitlement culture. See the difference? He thinks someone else should be force to do what he wants so he doesn't have to go to any trouble himself. I think he should admit that his complaint essentially calls for others to be forced to be his web publishing slave labor.

      The reality is that reddit is free to ban whatever they want, and the rest of us are free to complain.

      Right. Except the whiners are couching the discussion in terms of "free speech" being impact by Reddit's having an editorial policy. That gives it all away: the people who skew the discussion that way have absolutely no idea what freedom actually is.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    14. Re: Freedom of Speech? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      If I'm the one with the communications infrastructure and I let you use it to communicate, what you say reflects on me because I built your podium.

      Free speech does not entitle you to someone elses podium.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    15. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Am I violating the principle of free speech if I kick some drunk asshole out of my party for continuously saying obnoxious things? If the answer is no then that same logic applies to what Reddit is doing. They pay for their servers and if they want to kick out certain assholes they are justified. The reason is that there is also an inherent right to property. When free speech and property rights collide, property rights win. As it should be.

    16. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "through any media" means you can publish your own site or blog stating your opinions. Has nothing to do with a company hosting your stuff for you. A bank can't kick you out for having an offensive but protected shirt, for example, but a private venue can definitely choose to refuse to provide you with a platform for your speech. There's really nothing, anywhere, that somehow suggests private venues should be forced to provide platforms for speech they don't want.

      Except, of course, interneters who love to fight for "free speech". So, yeah, no. Free Speech is a concept outside of the US Constitution, but that doesn't mean this bullshit makes any sense regardless about whining about Reddit "hating free speech"

    17. Re:Freedom of Speech? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Many (most?) states have an offensive words or gestures law that makes such acts illegal. Usually it is a pretty low standard but you can get away with saying things like, "I think you are a shitbag." You can not generally say, "You are a shitbag." There is no "freedom speech" law in the United States, it is the, "RIGHT to free speech." There is a difference and few people seem to actually know this. The only way the government could take away your freedom to speak is to kill or isolate you. What they can not do is infringe on your rights to exercise free speech. These differences matter and, frankly - as you seem to be aware, have not a damned thing to do with what Reddit does or does not allow.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    18. Re:Freedom of Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. One of the jewels of post war civilisation.

      I wonder when the SJWs will finally declare their fatwa on the whole document. It's really only a matter of time at this stage.

  12. subtext by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "we recognize that people are terrible, and if they aren't terrible here, they'll generate ad reven^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H terrible content somewhere else."

  13. reddit is a CONservative shithole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't understand why anyone still uses that site. It is overrun by people that shadowban liberals by the thousands and bury anyone that disagrees with the Republicans.

    1. Re:reddit is a CONservative shithole by bn-7bc · · Score: 0

      Funny,I never noticed rhe problems on reddit, and I'm there every day go figure. Meybe /r/ipv6 is a troll/hate free zone

  14. The Diggification of Reddit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    My take/opinion:

    I expect Reddit will morph into a stupid website like Digg has become. Subreddits will continue for awhile then expire on the vine.

    It's a sad day for Americans, unless you like sucking your boyfriend's cock, licking your girlfriend's vagina, changing sex and flaunting it like a peacock's feathers, or are an illegal alien hoping for amnesty and cowering in the corner whenever Trump is on TV and swiping your green card up and down your ass crack.

    1. Re:The Diggification of Reddit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My take/opinion:

      I expect Reddit will morph into a stupid website like Digg has become. Subreddits will continue for awhile then expire on the vine.

      It's a sad day for Americans

      I imagine the comma here to be the pause where OP stops speaking while he/she takes the hot crack straight from the spoon.

      unless you like sucking your boyfriend's cock, licking your girlfriend's vagina, changing sex and flaunting it like a peacock's feathers, or are an illegal alien hoping for amnesty and cowering in the corner whenever Trump is on TV and swiping your green card up and down your ass crack.

    2. Re:The Diggification of Reddit by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      People with green cards wouldn't need amnesty for being illegally present. Their green card is part of the paper trail of a legal immigrant.

    3. Re:The Diggification of Reddit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spanish still sucks, unless it's coming from a sweaty yet happy cook in a greasy spoon mex rest delivering me some tasty mex food.

      When I hear Spanish I think of two things:

      1. mex food outlets
      2. gang bangers
      3. people too lazy to learn English

    4. Re:The Diggification of Reddit by KGIII · · Score: 1

      You are seriously lacking a decent drug education. Do not do drugs as you will do so in an unsafe manner and end up hurting yourself or other people. I think you are the first person I have ever seen that would not be benefited by experimentation.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  15. Re:Republicans hate free speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I love how Poa or Pao or whatever her name was is 1000% not even close to being conservative.
    But okay lol

  16. Not Good Enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not as long as /r/coontown and it's ilk continue to exist with thousands of subscribers.

    Reddit can't profit from hate and expect my patronage.

    1. Re:Not Good Enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you just have a stroke? Do you need an ambulance dispatched to your location?

  17. Re:"freedom" to self-identify as a pervert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you're the sort of tool who posts revenge porn on Reddit then I guarantee you that the Reddit admins know better than you do.

  18. Don't read anything into it that isn't there by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    It's about maximizing market value. A very simple concept.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  19. Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because even the single most toxic sub on the entire website which openly tries to goad at-risk users into committing suicide, routinely engages in doxing, and considers brigading to be a core part of their sub's existence still has the favor of the admins.

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    1. Re:Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by Gazzonyx · · Score: 1

      For those of us who have no idea what you're talking about but are curious, can you expand upon this?

      --

      If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.

    2. Re:Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your sig is a good explanation of the way voting on reddit is supposed to work. An upvote doesn't necessarily mean you agree with something. You're supposed to upvote things that "add to the discussion" and downvote things that do not, regardless of agreement.

      For this reason, "brigading" is a bad thing. If, say, a bunch of chocolate pudding afficiandoes on /r/chocolatepudding watch the general /r/pudding sub, and any time vanilla pudding is mentioned, they post a link to the thread and everybody from /r/chocolatepudding goes to downvote the pro-vanilla comment, that's not really helpful. The vanilla pudding comment was adding to the discussion, but not expressing an opinion the chocolate pudding crowd liked. Downvoting it en mass is bullshit.

      SRS is /r/shitredditsays, a forum wherein people notice "offensive" things said on other subs, and post links to them. The entire purpose of the sub is to post links to comments and posts you don't like. And gee, I guess maybe if other people don't like them too, they might, I don't know...go downvote those comments?

      And of course they go beyond merely downvoting that one post. Some redditors have been known to go through somebody's entire post history, downvoting everything they've ever said. Or worse, sleuthing their real identity, and harassing them offline, or contacting their employer and trying to get them fired for something "offensive" they've said under a pseudonym online.

      So, how can the problem be "harassment" and "doxxing" when SRS is still allowed to exist?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    3. Re:Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      So, how can the problem be "harassment" and "doxxing" when SRS is still allowed to exist?

      That's simple, because many of the admins when they quit suddenly become mods of SRS. Just like Ellen Pao did, literally the second she quit a CEO. Or as I like to put it: SRS, where admins and CEO's go to show their true colours.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, how can the problem be "harassment" and "doxxing" when SRS is still allowed to exist?

      That's simple, because many of the admins when they quit suddenly become mods of SRS. Just like Ellen Pao did, literally the second she quit a CEO. Or as I like to put it: SRS, where admins and CEO's go to show their true colours.

      It is really, really ironic after the Ellen Pao pitchfork campaign that it turns out she was the only one at Reddit management fighting against censorship (and not involved in the firing of Victoria). These Reddit users attacked the only one that was actually on their side in this whole mess.

      Yishan Wong, Ex-Reddit CEO, Says Ellen Pao Was Only Exec 'Who Tried Stopping The Changes'

    5. Re:Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're putting a lot of faith into a troll comment by yishan. Remember, Yishan and Ellen are very close, in fact when he stepped down he pretty much crowned her as his (interim) replacement CEO. He's sticking up for his buddy, we have no idea how accurate his statements are. Frankly it reads to me like most of his recent posts have been made drunk/high.

    6. Re:Meanwhile in SRS business continues as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're putting a lot of faith into a troll comment by yishan. Remember, Yishan and Ellen are very close, in fact when he stepped down he pretty much crowned her as his (interim) replacement CEO. He's sticking up for his buddy, we have no idea how accurate his statements are. Frankly it reads to me like most of his recent posts have been made drunk/high.

      well, it seems supported by what happened the moment she left (what this Slashdot story is about).

  20. Reddit: don't read the comments .. by nickweller · · Score: 0

    Reddit is vaguely useful to see what's current - what ever you do, don't read the comments ...

  21. Time for a truly uncensored version of reddit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone needs to make a site, put it on the dark web to make it harder to shut down that allows all content.

    1. Re:Time for a truly uncensored version of reddit. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Nobody cares about the dark web. It is accessed, from the last statistics posted here, by a fraction of a single percent of internet users. So, while it might be nice (and surely already exists) the reality is that nobody will notice. If you make an interface to connect it to the WWW then maybe you have a chance. I do not think such has been done in a meaningful fashion with any real results at this point so that is an idea that you can run with.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  22. You've reinvented the Killfile, from Usenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and it will never be implemented well on the Web until the advertisers' cold dead fingers are pried from ... well, everything.

    Because the first thing people block is annoying in your face unwanted stuff, given the choice to killfile stuff.

    Remember the promise that the Web would offer you a way to find what you wanted?

    In 21st Century web, what you don't want can find YOU.

  23. Reddit, you're dead, you just don't know it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're lost in a pit of fail, with no way out. You've now pissed off everyone.

  24. Re: This summary is wrong, they are banning conten by bondsbw · · Score: 1

    I am aware of that. I wasn't talking about discussion of illegal activity but rather inciting it. Violence would of course fit under that, but so would things like posting your ex's credit card info and SSN and other personal data for others to abuse.

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  25. "Stopped short of banning"? Gimme a break... by core_dump_0 · · Score: 1

    They'll just keep up their goofy games of modifying and wiping people's posts and comments without the person knowing it unless they go in private browsing mode. There's no difference.

  26. Not valid for SRS users. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's used towards maintaining their narrative, then all those rules go out the window.

  27. Re: This summary is wrong, they are banning conten by guises · · Score: 1

    Posting personal data is banned by a separate rule. I was using their example: advocating for drugs is okay, advocating for rape is not. They reason they give for that is violence, though they allow promoting violence in other contexts. I gave the example of vigilantism, which is also illegal.

  28. You know by koan · · Score: 1

    There's something sinister about this: "It stopped short of banning the material outright and instead will require users to log-in to access it."

    AS though that information, what you participate in on Reddit will be used for something nasty.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  29. Index by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

    Does this mean they won't be indexed by search engines anymore?
    Or are they going to make that an exception?

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
  30. Say goodbye, potheads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they are nuking /r/trees and any other subreddit that helps people violate federal law, right?

    Right?

    Of course not.. These people have no balls. Selective censorship is the worst.

  31. The ratchet effect of censorship by gilgongo · · Score: 1

    "Chief executive and co-founder Steve Huffman told users: 'We've spent the last few days here discussing...'

    There it is. If you've ever wondered how any repressive regime started with perfectly good intentions and ended putting humans through meat grinders, then there it is.

    Imagine the scene: the great and the good at Reddit discussion what to do about revenge porn, swastikas and confederate flags in a plush air-conditioned office. They all have beautiful wives and young kids at home. Who, just who among them will seriously make any point about how Reddit is part of the fabric of free speech and that all they should do is give the community the tools to deal with it?

    Nobody will. They don't want to come across as some swivel-eyed libertarian loon! We all know evil when we see it after all!

    That's why I like Slashdot. Look at the length of my ID: I have never in all that time ever seen a swastika or any hate speech at all. I'm sure it exists though.

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    1. Re:The ratchet effect of censorship by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      The swastikas and hate speech get modded down primarily because they're off-topic since /. generally doesn't deal in topics where "RACE THE JEWS, GAS WAR NOW" is a remotely logical response. (Yes I scrambled that on purpose. Rule of funny.) But if you browse at -1 as you're supposed to when moderating, you'll see that they do exist. It's much less than it used to be, just like the GNAA has ceased to be much of a concern here, but that isn't just down to the moderation system or the "culture". It's also related to the topics under discussion. If this were a politically-oriented site, there would be times when such posts would be unpleasant and (most likely) trolling, but still on-topic.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    2. Re:The ratchet effect of censorship by gilgongo · · Score: 1

      A good point, and well made.

      --
      "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
  32. Re:"freedom" to self-identify as a pervert by weilawei · · Score: 1

    This is an excellent point. Anyone advocating censorship needs to set in place some method by which the censorship is achieved. That generally means picking a group of people and telling them to apply some sort of standard (of whatever looseness). What I think the parent poster was getting at (before they were downvoted) is that it's arrogant to think that you, yourself, know best what content is Good and what is Bad

    I would add that it's also foolish to think that you can predict the long-term consequences of your choices better than anyone else. The law of unintended consequences likes to show up with its buddy Murphy.