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Genetic Access Control Code Uses 23andMe DNA Data For Internet Racism

rjmarvin writes: A GitHub project is using the 23andMe API for genetic decoding to act as a way to bar users from entering websites based on their genetic data — race and ancestry. "Stumbling around GitHub, I came across this bit of code: Genetic Access Control. Now, budding young racist coders can check out your 23andMe page before they allow you into their website! Seriously, this code uses the 23andMe API to pull genetic info, then runs access control on the user based on the results. Just why you decide not to let someone into your site is up to you, but it can be based on any aspect of the 23andMe API. This is literally the code to automate racism."

312 comments

  1. So What by sexconker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1: Stop caring what other people do.
    2: Don't have a 23andMe profile (accessible to random websites on the internet, or at all) if you really care and think this will actually affect you.

    Perhaps some users will implement it in a harmless and beneficial way, such as creating a safe space for women. But it’s just as likely that, in a few years, Googling for a snippet of this code yields search results that are the equivalent of a who’s who of racist and misogynist sites.

    3: Take your sexist, racist agenda and go the fuck away.

    1. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > 3: Take your sexist, racist agenda and go the fuck away.

      Well, indeed. What's the difference between "a safe space for women" and "a safe space for white supremacists"? And who in their right mind can think it's a good idea to have a DNA profile online? Even if set to private, it's begging to get hacked.

    2. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PAVA

    3. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Um, there's no difference and that's the point.
      Who gives a shit if racist groups have a little pow wow on their own servers?
      Are you going to tell them that they can't have freedom of speech?
      Let them be assholes on their own private corner of the internet.

    4. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pelargonyl Vanillylamide?
      Pan American Vocology Association?
      Pool-Adjacent-Violators Algorithm?

    5. Re:So What by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 2

      I like your outrage, but I live in Asia, which means I can't see Netflix. *NETFLIX* - how about extending some of your outrage to me?

    6. Re: So What by _merlin · · Score: 1

      I think they mean Penis And Vagina Accounting or something.

    7. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I see a less-problematic use... making sure the person is real and not a bot/machine.

    8. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After all, you don't need to be genetically female to count as a "woman" in the eyes of SJWs.

      Well, there is your problem, extreme narcissism.
      You can't come to that conclusion without first deciding that everyone who doesn't think exactly like you is a homogeneous group without different opinions.

      In reality there are both LGBT groups that are very inclusive but generally avoids hereto-normativity and extreme feminist groups that considers men to be the enemy. Among the latter there are probably a bunch that considers anything born genetically male to be sub-human.
      Of course there are plenty of opinions between those.

    9. Re:So What by slacka · · Score: 0

      Yeah some fear mongering idiot with an agenda is behind this story. Many dating sites and reputation based sites like Airbnb not only require a access to your facebook/g+ profile, but they also need a copy of your drivers license. They have a human verify that license matches the social network profile. I didn't hear nutjobs like this guy screaming that Airbnb's verification could be used for racism.

      All of this is just a distraction from the real issues. Seems like every day an unarmed black male/hispanic is gunned down by a cop in the US. I'd love to see the real stats, but the police only share officers killed not the other way around. Institutionalized racism and police training are a a real problems, but people don't want to talk about the hard issues.

    10. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      > Seems like every day an unarmed black male/hispanic is gunned down by a cop in the US, I'd love to see the real stats, but [snip]

      Seems like every day an unarmed white person is gunned down/robbed by a 'minority' in the US. Seems like black and hispanic are statistically overrepresented in crime statistics. I'd love to see the real stats, but the government only shares minorities killed not the other way around. Culturally embedded crime is a a real problem, but people don't want to talk about the hard issues.

    11. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      I am most definitely not racist nor sexist.

      > Youhttp://science.slashdot.org/story/15/07/22/0146236/genetic-access-control-code-uses-23andme-dna-data-for-internet-racism# need to be purged from our society of tolerance and peace.

      And what the fuck does that mean?

    12. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Penis and vagina accounting

    13. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's special SJW code that you are not cleared for. Sorry

    14. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if set to private, it's begging to get hacked.

      That's why I use the GNU Pubic License.

      Give me a tickle and my DNA is yours to use as you wish, provided anyone you distribute it to also gives me a tickle.

    15. Re:So What by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      After all, you don't need to be genetically female to count as a "woman" in the eyes of SJWs.

      It depends on which brand of SJWs you ask.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    16. Re:So What by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was saying the same when Facebook started and people complained about it. "So what?", I said, "You don't like it, nobody's forcing you to make an account. Yeah, your friends are nagging you, but so what?"

      Now look around you. Tell me, how often have you encountered a webpage that only lets you sign up if you have FB in the first place? Because they can't be assed to have their own registration process? Believe me, not having a FB account sure locks you out from quite a few things that could be interesting.

      Let's all hope that this shit never takes off as big as FB did. As long as it's just some wacko nutjob pages that need to make sure your race is "pure" (or your mind puree, rather), there's little harm. If that catches on with something actually useful, things get less funny.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not missing much, and furthermore, how is that relevant to the conversation?

    18. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real issues are why is there so much black on black crime such as 4th of July in Chicago where 82 people were shot and 14 of them were fatal. None of the shootings were by police officers and Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

    19. Re:So What by Suiggy · · Score: 0

      Whatever, we know you're a racist now. You've been added to the racist black list. A racists need to be exposed.

    20. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you not capable or willing to see how your own perception bias contributes negatively to the problem?

    21. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      Says the anti-semite: http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    22. Re:So What by parenthephobia · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see the real stats, but the government only shares minorities killed not the other way around.

      You might have more of a point if this were true.

    23. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL at 'white supremacists'. Do you mean "White people who simply want to live around their own kind, without having any contact whatsoever with other races"?

      If so, what's the problem? You seem to believe that white people are superior to other races, and have something 'special' which we would be depriving other races of, by refusing to allow them to live in our countries... so YOU are a 'white supremacist'.

      Otherwise, please explain why you think white people shouldn't be allowed to associate with only their own kind, and also explain why you aren't calling the billions of non-whites in Africa, India, China, etc. "racists", because they are happily living with THEIR own kind, and aren't demanding that millions of people of other races move into their countries...

    24. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain why millions of white people move house every year, to move into more white areas, and why houses in all or majority white areas are more expensive than houses in majority non-white areas (in previously WHITE countries)...

      What the hell is "hate" speech? Oh, you mean anything that questions the Jewish Bolshevik narrative that you've been brainwashed with by the entire media, every day of your life, since you were born. You idiot, you can't even think for yourself.

    25. Re:So What by dave420 · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find it's predominately poor people who are overrepresented in the crime statistics. Non-white people have generally had a harder time in the US than white people, and that continues to this day, which goes a long way to explaining their overrepresentation. Your misses-the-point-entirely-but-is-too-caught-up-in-petty-racism-to-even-realise post shows just how dangerous opinions like yours spread and persist.

    26. Re: So What by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think I'll just stick with debit and credit, thank you.

    27. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      True enough. And that "safe space for women"? Yeah, I can easily create a 23andme profile using my wife's DNA and voila! I can get into the "women only site". This whole thing is sorta stupid.

    28. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm an Elder of Zion, you insensitive cold!

    29. Re:So What by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Yea I don't get it. It inst as if these groups have not found ways to prevent those they consider undesirables out in the past. What's the problem here, that it might be harder to infiltrate them or something. I don't imagine submitting someone elses sample to 23andMe is all that much tougher than using a fake name and photo on the web anyway.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    30. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparantly you've never been to Appalachia or Urban Appalachia.

      You're welcome.

      Rural poor whites are far less prone to crimes than minorities. Deal with it.

    31. Re:So What by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      1. The person who made this uses the name "OffensiveComputing". You fell for what is clearly a troll project. Indeed, reading the description it's full of only slightly subtle MRA troll talking points and phrases, like the "safe spaces = assault on freedom of speech" meme.

      2. 23andMe don't post your profile publicly or allow random websites to access it. You have to give permission to each web site. It's a major part of their service, because they only do the DNA testing part and offer some basic info about the result. The idea is that you can then take your profile to other sites and professionals who can interpret it or combine it with other tests. You know, like you would with an MRI scan. The guy doing the scan is just a technician, someone else interprets it.

      You might still think that's dumb, but presumably you don't trust the hospital to keep your records on computer either and demand they are never transmitted to other hospitals electronically.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    32. Re:So What by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2

      The anonymous coward is suggesting that everyone should have to provide their DNA in order to prove that they aren't a bot before posting on the internet?

      I think my irony meter just blew a circuit.

    33. Re:So What by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      LOL at 'white supremacists'. Do you mean "White people who simply want to live around their own kind, without having any contact whatsoever with other races"?

      I don't know if that's white supremacy, but it definitely is racism.

    34. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, dude, no one likes you.

    35. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My right to sexism and racism is a god give right. The right to associate with people freely and voluntary. This overreach of the state is sickening. One state forces people not to freely associate, the answer by the bigger state; force people to associate whether or not desired. And this is the mess that is left. Good theater though.

    36. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also painfully ignorant and sad.

    37. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop.
      Just stop.

      Pointing out racism IS NOT RACIST.

    38. Re:So What by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      Tell me, how often have you encountered a webpage that only lets you sign up if you have FB in the first place?

      None, but if a site requires a facepalm account, I don't want to log in.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    39. Re:So What by dywolf · · Score: 1

      It's called institutional or systemic racism, and it's very much alive in the real estate market.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    40. Re: So What by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I'm getting plenty of brainwashing from Marxist, Leninist, Leftist Utopians, thank you very much. The war for public approval and oppression has two sides.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    41. Re: So What by dywolf · · Score: 1

      1- we're supposed to believe that all 82 people were cases of "black on black" crime?

      2- the "black on black crime" canard needs to go away. a pretty good summation ( http://www.thenation.com/artic... ) :

      1.The term is a racial canard. Of course, it could merely be descriptive, an adjective for a certain kind of crime, like “same-sex domestic-partner violence.” But it’s not. Same-sex domestic-partner violence is distinguished from opposite-sex domestic-partner violence. But “black-on-black crime” has no racial equivalent: nobody talks about white-on-white crime (see 2) or Asian-on-Asian crime. It’s a construct assigned solely to black people, and it interprets their transgression through a purely racial lens. It ranks alongside “the down-low,” a phrase used to refer to black gay men who lead straight lives, only to cheat on their wives with other men. When white men do it, it’s called “Brokeback Mountain”; when black men do it, it gets a special name. The phrase “black-on-black crime” makes sense only if you understand black people’s propensity to commit crimes against people of their own race as inherently different from the way other racial groups commit crimes.

      2.In this regard, black criminals are not particularly different. America is very segregated, and its criminality conforms to that fact. So the victims of most crimes are the same race as those who commit them. Eighty-four percent of white people who are killed every year are killed by white people. White people who buy illegal drugs are most likely to buy them from white people. Far from being extraordinary, the fact that black criminals are most likely to commit crimes against black people makes them just like everybody else. A more honest term than “black-on-black crime” would be, simply, “crime.”

      3.It is not a taboo. Anyone who seriously thinks that black people are not talking about black people killing other black people just doesn’t know any black people. Black people talk about it a lot. They have a lot to talk about. But while black-on-black crime is a nonsense term, black crime is a serious issue. Black people may not be much more likely to kill members of their own racial group than whites, but they are still more likely to kill and be killed. It’s not as though the black community hasn’t noticed that. Most cities have several black-led organizations confronting this very thing. Nor do black people grieve according to some code of silence. Go to any inner-city church, youth club, park, concert, barbershop, beauty salon or high school basketball game and listen. Every now and then, like last year after Chicago high school student Hadiya Pendleton was shot, they even get a national platform to talk about it. And when they do, they seize it.

      4.The police are a special category. That’s the point. Black people are not, by dint of their melanin content, instructed to protect and serve the public; the police, by dint of their employment, are. Black people do not have a monopoly on violence; the police do. So when the people entrusted with upholding the law kill someone, that raises very different issues than if a kid from down the block shoots somebody. When the people who are supposed to protect everybody show an undeniable propensity to kill one group of people more than others (black men aged 15 to 19 are twenty-one times more likely to be shot by police than their white counterparts), that inevitably raises the question of discrimination. Our taxes don’t pay to support black criminals in their pursuit of black victims; they are currently going to support police in the shooting of black people.

      5.The police are not an elevated category. The law still applies to them. When black people kill other black peop

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    42. Re:So What by dywolf · · Score: 0

      who modded this false racist trash up?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    43. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also: A safe place for black supremists, hispanic supremists, pure darwinists, social and economic inequity groupies and the last
      safe place for the socially unacceptable...

    44. Re:So What by LaurenCates · · Score: 2

      Oh, stop messin' around.

      You know perfectly well that Slashdotters are basement-dwelling neckbeards that can't have wives.

      On the other hand, you probably still live with your mother...okay, problem solved.

      (Sorry, did I just say something that creates an unsafe space for men? And is that okay, because I'm a guy pretending to be a woman on the internet?)

      --
      Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
    45. Re: So What by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      It's also protected by our First Amendment.

      "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,"

      That they wish to do this not merely in the town square, or at their favorite website, but in their neighborhood, makes no difference.

      It may be racist, but it's not merely legal, it's protected. And our President is actively working to subvert the Constitution and make this specifically illegal.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    46. Re:So What by BVis · · Score: 1

      LOL at 'white supremacists'. Do you mean "White people who simply want to live around their own kind, without having any contact whatsoever with other races"?

      You have a point. "Racist assholes" is more accurate. What they do in their private lives is their business; freedom of association is in the First Amendment. The problem comes when they try to apply their own prejudices to public spaces; for example, refusing to serve black folks at a lunch counter, refusing to rent an apartment to a black couple, etc.

      If so, what's the problem? You seem to believe that white people are superior to other races, and have something 'special' which we would be depriving other races of, by refusing to allow them to live in our countries... so YOU are a 'white supremacist'.

      Did you read the same comment that I did? There's nothing in that comment to lead you to that conclusion.

      Otherwise, please explain why you think white people shouldn't be allowed to associate with only their own kind

      See above. What people do in their private lives is their business; the problem comes when they try to make decisions for the rest of us based on their own prejudices.

      and also explain why you aren't calling the billions of non-whites in Africa, India, China, etc. "racists", because they are happily living with THEIR own kind, and aren't demanding that millions of people of other races move into their countries...

      Now I don't have any fucking idea what you're talking about. Chinese people live in China because they were born there. Who is demanding that millions of people of other 'races' move to America? I think you're off your meds.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    47. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not having a FB account sure locks you out from quite a few things that could be interesting.

      Bullshit!

    48. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've been to sites that allow me to use facebook to login, but I don't recall ever finding one that forces me to use facebook

    49. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ROFL

      Yeah Racism so subtle it can't be detected by humans but has to be inferred

    50. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, is it internet day at the asylum ?

    51. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's possible that I simply don't notice that websites require facebook accounts, because I have blocked their IP-ranges in my perimiter firewall and their domain names in my internal DNS server (and blocked outgoing traffic on port 53 to avoid rouge DNS servers).

      Facebook sucks.

    52. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus christ you've been mentally warped, probably by military service I'm guessing? You literally would rather see your own fellow citizens at each other's throat rather than just sit the fuck down and shut up.

    53. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1- we're supposed to believe that all 82 people were cases of "black on black" crime?

      2- the "black on black crime" canard needs to go away. a pretty good summation ( http://www.thenation.com/artic... ) :

      1.The term is a racial canard. Of course, it could merely be descriptive, an adjective for a certain kind of crime, like “same-sex domestic-partner violence.” But it’s not. Same-sex domestic-partner violence is distinguished from opposite-sex domestic-partner violence. But “black-on-black crime” has no racial equivalent: nobody talks about white-on-white crime (see 2) or Asian-on-Asian crime. It’s a construct assigned solely to black people, and it interprets their transgression through a purely racial lens. It ranks alongside “the down-low,” a phrase used to refer to black gay men who lead straight lives, only to cheat on their wives with other men. When white men do it, it’s called “Brokeback Mountain”; when black men do it, it gets a special name. The phrase “black-on-black crime” makes sense only if you understand black people’s propensity to commit crimes against people of their own race as inherently different from the way other racial groups commit crimes.

      2.In this regard, black criminals are not particularly different. America is very segregated, and its criminality conforms to that fact. So the victims of most crimes are the same race as those who commit them. Eighty-four percent of white people who are killed every year are killed by white people. White people who buy illegal drugs are most likely to buy them from white people. Far from being extraordinary, the fact that black criminals are most likely to commit crimes against black people makes them just like everybody else. A more honest term than “black-on-black crime” would be, simply, “crime.”

      3.It is not a taboo. Anyone who seriously thinks that black people are not talking about black people killing other black people just doesn’t know any black people. Black people talk about it a lot. They have a lot to talk about. But while black-on-black crime is a nonsense term, black crime is a serious issue. Black people may not be much more likely to kill members of their own racial group than whites, but they are still more likely to kill and be killed. It’s not as though the black community hasn’t noticed that. Most cities have several black-led organizations confronting this very thing. Nor do black people grieve according to some code of silence. Go to any inner-city church, youth club, park, concert, barbershop, beauty salon or high school basketball game and listen. Every now and then, like last year after Chicago high school student Hadiya Pendleton was shot, they even get a national platform to talk about it. And when they do, they seize it.

      4.The police are a special category. That’s the point. Black people are not, by dint of their melanin content, instructed to protect and serve the public; the police, by dint of their employment, are. Black people do not have a monopoly on violence; the police do. So when the people entrusted with upholding the law kill someone, that raises very different issues than if a kid from down the block shoots somebody. When the people who are supposed to protect everybody show an undeniable propensity to kill one group of people more than others (black men aged 15 to 19 are twenty-one times more likely to be shot by police than their white counterparts), that inevitably raises the question of discrimination. Our taxes don’t pay to support black criminals in their pursuit of black victims; they are currently going to support police in the shooting of black people.

      5.The police are not an elevated category. The law still applies to them. When black peopl

    54. Re: So What by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      It's also protected by our First Amendment.

      "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,"

      That they wish to do this not merely in the town square, or at their favorite website, but in their neighborhood, makes no difference.

      It may be racist, but it's not merely legal, it's protected. And our President is actively working to subvert the Constitution and make this specifically illegal.

      so when your boss asks you to sign a non-disclosure, it's unconstitutional? clearly your freedom of speech is being violated

    55. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whites wanting to live separate and apart from other non-white races was the driving factor behind Ruby Ridge.
      I

    56. Re:So What by scourfish · · Score: 1

      I would argue that vying for gender segregated websites under is quite sexist in and of itself.

    57. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people who understand Poe's law perhaps? I do believe it was an attempt to sarcastically point the focus on minorities being killed by cops is a lubricious fixation, when people being killed by cops at all is an issue, as would anyone killing anyone else.

    58. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You insist that some speech can be banned because it can be classified as "hate speech".

      I consider that to be hate speech.

      Check mate.

    59. Re:So What by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Plus, how hard would it be to submit DNA samples from random sources to build an array of false profiles that one could use?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    60. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does this list have to be black? Racist.

    61. Re:So What by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 0

      First, I am not an advocate of 100% free speech

      Then fuck you, you shit maggot. The kind of speech that we must protect is that which is most offensive to us, otherwise it means nothing.

      Don't start with you fuck-ass rationalizations as to why certain kinds of speech should be "forbidden" or regulated. Let me guess- nothing YOU would ever say falls under "speech to be forbidden", right?

      In closing, I'd just like to say, "fuck you".

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    62. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also protected by our First Amendment.

      "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,"

      That they wish to do this not merely in the town square, or at their favorite website, but in their neighborhood, makes no difference.

      It may be racist, but it's not merely legal, it's protected. And our President is actively working to subvert the Constitution and make this specifically illegal.

      so when your boss asks you to sign a non-disclosure, it's unconstitutional? clearly your freedom of speech is being violated

      You are comparing a contractual agreement between two parties not to disclose information with a racist demonstration. What are you getting at and what does a non-disclosure have to do with the first amendment? Clearly gibberish.

    63. Re:So What by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      . What's the difference between "a safe space for women" and "a safe space for white supremacists"? And who in their right mind can think it's a good idea to have a DNA profile online? Even if set to private, it's begging to get hacked.

      What's the difference between a safe space for white supremacists and a safe space for native americans? its the difference between a majority and a minority in an area where the majority enjoys the balance of power.

    64. Re:So What by Threni · · Score: 1

      What about B racists?

    65. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My sentiments exactly. The politically correct retards and SJWs are out in force today.

    66. Re: So What by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      You're lost.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    67. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We tried that with the U.N. and the FEDs.

    68. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parents even did the double entry correctly. Merit star for them!

    69. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Tell me, how often have you encountered a webpage that only lets you sign up if you have FB in the first place?"

      None. Ever.

    70. Re: So What by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      Women generally don't go around lynching men and starting geno^Wandrocidal wars?

    71. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those aren't SJWs. They're what the rest of the world calls "feminists." Just because SJWs are misusing the term doesn't make them feminists. Much like being an SJW doesn't make you a warrior for social justice, it just makes you an asshole on the Internet.

    72. Re:So What by kheldan · · Score: 0

      So, shall we make bets on who it was that modded me down to -1: A racist, a sexist, or for bonus points, at least one of each? How about a couple white supremacists? They tend to be both racist and sexist.

      NOTE: Not liking a comment, or just plain disagreeing with it for personal reasons, is NOT a valid reason to mod a comment down, all it does is show what an ass you are. Racism, sexism, religious bias, prejudices in general -- these are all reasons why we can't have nice things. They're standing in the way of humans actually being considered 'civilized' instead of just animals with better tools and toys. So go ahead and mod this comment down to -1 while you're at it, and mark it as 'troll' or 'flame bait', too, because if you're going to show the world what an ass you are by misusing mod points, you may as well not do it by half measures. Shall I post my personal email address, physical address, and phone number too, so you can send me death threats? Same mentality.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    73. Re:So What by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Well, indeed. What's the difference between "a safe space for women" and "a safe space for white supremacists"? And who in their right mind can think it's a good idea to have a DNA profile online? Even if set to private, it's begging to get hacked.

      I'm sure that most white supremacists think their background is lily-white and are more than willing to set their profile to public until they learn the embarrassing truth that they got the "uppity" gene from an ancestor that they consider a troglodyte. Nobody in Europe, The Americas or Australia is that pure anything any more.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    74. Re:So What by budgenator · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure the feds will be able to insert what ever undercover profiles they want into 23andme, and thereby making it easier to infiltrate what ever terrorist group they all with the correct genetic bona fides.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    75. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and maybe I run a web service for sufferers of a specific genetic affliction. Seems like an easy way to confirm membership without passing around sensitive medical records to confirm a diagnosis.

    76. Re:So What by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I don't think the world will ever be free of racism, approximately 10% of the human population is genetically hardwire to be xenophobic, and about 10% to be xenophilic; it keeps the geneticc mixmaster on "mix" instead of "puree"

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    77. Re:So What by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      As a plus (and as in some famous examples) some will find out their ancestry isn't as "pure" as they thought, and may cause them to stop hating great-grandma Jane or whatever.

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      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    78. Re:So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This story reminded me of a push in the late 90's and 00's by the LGBT community to prove there was something that physically made them the way they were so they could put an end to the argument that it was a lifestyle choice. There were numerous studies conducted and at least one study was able to find something. Interestingly the discovery generated a bit more interest than expected and by a group the community did not expect. Expectant parents started asking their doctors if there was a test to determine if the child would be LGBT so they could make an informed decision on whether to go to term or not. I didn't hear anything about that or any other study after. So a tool can be wielded differently depending on who is holding it.

    79. Re:So What by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Oh look I was right! What's the matter misanthropes, did I piss you off with that? Tough shit. All you did was prove my point for me.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    80. Re: So What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't those Blacks go to a Black lunch counter? Why do they need to go to the racist White lunch counter?

    81. Re:So What by KGIII · · Score: 2

      I am a straight male who is quite welcome, and frequently partakes, in the queer community. I am very hetero-normative actually - it is who I am, any attempts to be otherwise have been interesting and have only shown me that I am not, in fact, gay or bi or even a woman in male skin. I have not met all cliques but, of those I have, I have found the GLBT groups to be the most welcoming. Hell, when I drank my favorite bar (now closed, sadly) in this area was an 'alternative' bar which catered to the queer community. It was awesome and I could just do anything I wanted and be myself without care. It seems that those who are considered to be freaks are much more accepting of other freaks but I could be projecting.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    82. Re:So What by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Less likely to commit crimes or less likely to be convicted or reported for criminal activity?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    83. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      You are one of the things that is wrong in this world: your thoughtless, fundamentalist attitude is the cause of a lot of misery.

    84. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      White supremacists fortunately aren't a majority. Women, on the other hand, are. Isolation on basis of DNA does not seem proper to me.

    85. Re: So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      Why do you implicitly accuse men? If you believe that, you need your head looked after.

    86. Re: So What by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      so when your boss asks you to sign a non-disclosure, it's unconstitutional? clearly your freedom of speech is being violated

      The US Constitution is an old piece of paper in a glass case. Nice tourist attraction, but of little relevance to the actual exercise of juridical power under the empire. (Thanks SKCOTUS!)

      But yeah, non disclosure contracts certainly do constrain a person's freedom of speech. Some people think it's a-okay to stifle speech provided it's done in the name of private capital (as opposed to public authority). Whereas other people think that's not so okay. Value judgement etc.

    87. Re:So What by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Men are on a higher ring of the ladder than women. That is the difference.

    88. Re:So What by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      OK, you're in luck, because I'm about to lay out my entire holistic theory on race relations, gender relations, and all other things like this.

      We can agree by common experience that there is a social pecking order, a social ladder, and some people are on higher rungs and some people are on lower rungs. Historically in US white men have been at the top of the ladder, and women and blacks have been lower down. I think this is undeniable fact. Most people would agree, and I think a rational outside observer would agree, that while tremendous progress has been made, the social pecking order still exists.

      This is not just an American problem. From a sociological point of view, it's clear that this pattern exists throughout the world. Protestants vs. Catholics. Natives vs. foreigners, Northerners vs. southerners. Further, I think an anthropologist and an animal-ologist (?) would tell you that this same pattern exists not only throughout human history and prehistory but also in the animal kingdom as well.

      So, one may ask, if the social ladder is bred into human biology and we are inherently wired to be that way, why are we trying to fight it? Isn't this SJW-ism just a battle uphill and ultimately destructive? Why don't we find a way to build a society around more natural principles?

      Two reasons. First, the birth of our country is built on a rejection of this social pecking order. All men are created equal. All men have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are not granted by man, but endowed by the grace and will of God. Further, we as a nation have reaffirmed this basic principle of equality through congressional acts, through presidential acts, and through acts of supreme court. So SJW-ism is built into the core of this nation. You could say the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are the ultimate SJW manifestos.

      Second, back to the social ladder. We have seen over and over again that the worst atrocities, the worst acts of man, in history are caused by embracing this social ladder. Slavery. Genocide. If we don't fight against this part of our human nature, this can be the result.

      OK, summary. I believe that those who believe these atrocities to be a Bad Thing need to be wary of this base human tendency, and must always be building a bulwark against it. This is worldwide. In the US, we have an especially heavy obligation, because not only are these atrocities against our cultural beliefs, but SJW is inherent in the functioning of our democracy.

      So in short, yes, I believe that private spaces for women are OK and private spaces for white men are not OK, regardless of the political affiliations of the men in question.

    89. Re:So What by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      > your thoughtless, fundamentalist attitude is the cause of a lot of misery.

      My "thoughtless, fundamentalist attitude" of not banning whatever speech YOU happen to find objectionable today? Got it. Brilliant, tgv, just brilliant.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    90. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      You can't defend unlimited free speech. That would include someone shouting atrocities through a megaphone outside your bedroom window. I don't think you'd like that. Then you automatically get into reciprocity, responsibility, limits to freedom, what is worth of being protected, etc.

    91. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      I can only go with you as far as "safe from harm or unjust prosecution". Anything else (and the discussion was genetic passports for websites) seems unrealistic, to put it mildly.

      > First, the birth of our country is built on a rejection of this social pecking order.

      Not our. Yours perhaps. Mine was built on religious intolerance and xenophobia.

      > Further, we as a nation have reaffirmed this basic principle of equality through ...

      And reverted that also. The history of the USA is not one of a continuous progression to equality. When the constitution was written, slavery was common. The constitution and declaration of independence were not enough to reject that; an extra amendment was needed. So it's not as if equality as perceived today was present in spirit since 1787.

      You mentioned overcoming natural order. You don't do that by claiming safe space. You do that by changing the nature of people, i.e. educating them. Claiming rights that are not grounded in common belief doesn't work: it's ordinary politics, and it can even backfire. SJW has let itself in with the post-modern sociology crowd, mixed up all terminology, and got itself in a state of permanent rage. That part of it antagonizes and makes it ridiculous. Be careful with that.

    92. Re:So What by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      so you support the atrocities in WWII and Rwanda then. it's one or the other.

    93. Re:So What by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      That would include someone shouting atrocities through a megaphone outside your bedroom window.

      No one ever said free speech came without consequences. You should be free to say whatever you like, but the consequences may not be to your liking. You can shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, AND you may face various charges for doing so. But no law prohibits you from doing so.

      Similarly, you can stand outside my window and shout atrocities if you like, but you may face penalties for doing so.

      ALL speech should be allowed, and all speech should be subject to legal repercussions. But banning some opinion or writing that you personally disagree with is nothing more than old-fashioned censorship.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    94. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      > You can shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, AND you may face various charges for doing so. But no law prohibits you from doing so.

      That's rather contradictory.

    95. Re:So What by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      > That's rather contradictory.

      No, it's not. You are not prohibited by law from saying anything, but your speech may have consequences.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    96. Re:So What by tgv · · Score: 1

      Then it's pure weasel words, meant to maintain an illusion.

  2. Verified spit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now you won't just have to buy other people's pee to pass your drug test, you'll have to buy other people's spit to get access to racist websites.

    1. Re:Verified spit by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now you won't just have to buy other people's pee to pass your drug test, you'll have to buy other people's spit to get access to racist websites.

      If you're paying for their spit you're doing it wrong. I was at a recent rally where the "white supremacists" were in attendance and it seems like sputum is their main contribution to society.

      If they're the "supreme" the rest of us whites need to take a good long look at ourselves and ask why we work, can spell, and don't sit around in a pool of phlegm. Seriously - I saw a spitoon of them (that's the correct collective noun) standing around in a circle having a friendly chat before the rally, and spitting on the ground. Really - at first I thought it was a spoof, but no - they were fair dinkum about it (one even had his confederate tattoo on one skinny bicep). And they weren't even angry. If they were angry in a strong wind it'd be a mucal maelstrom.

      TB. would be the death of them.

      Some people pepper their speech with "ums" and "erms" - so do they, but they punctuate with a hawk and a spit. I agree they've been marginalised - just disagree that it's unjust.

      I don't think you have to worry about needing to swab up their spit to get access to their "websites" (but use gloves if you do) - those pinheads couldn't run a bath let alone a secure website. Their "leaders" are a different type - I doubt they believe any of their propaganda. So maybe their websites'd be harder to hack. But if they used genetic confirmation for access control they'd have to exclude some of their membership.

      As for whether it's good or bad - I suspect it's neither. How different is that from websites that confirm your economic status, some sort of membership in other groups, or identity? If the information is misused the problem lies with the person who stupidly put their genetic data up on 23andme. Once you give stuff away without license you lose the right to retrospectively determine how it's used.

  3. Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a good example of how "because we can" is no longer affordable. It certainly is not the only example, there are many more. This just punches a particular hotbutton. Also note that if this gets retracted someone who wants it --for whatever purpose-- can re-create it with little trouble, so there's no use condemning the author -- even if they are terribly naïve, completely forgetting that you can be both inclusive and exclusive with the same tool.

    What you should be doing instead of fuming over the details is that the time has come to think long and hard as to what we want technology to do and also what we want it to not do. We need much clearer ideas there, and we need to actively think about them. We can no longer wait, try out everything, hope the good stuff sticks and the bad stuff withers away. We know it doesn't work like that.

    1. Re:Somebody had to write it by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      ..and I suppose you know the identity of this supposedly objective arbiter of social justice who will decide how technology will be used?

      Your shitty argument is little different than the "this is why we can't have nice things" retort often repeated here.

    2. Re:Somebody had to write it by MtHuurne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the author, using the "offensive-computing" nick, knew very well that this would trigger a discussion and that's probably the reason this project was created in the first place.

      For this to work, there are two required components: code and data. The code has already been created and if it hadn't been, implementing OAUTH and using a REST API is within the scope of many developers' skills. So the route to avoiding abuse of this technology is by restricting access to the data. Simply put, don't give any web site access to your genetic data.

    3. Re:Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US gov't might want to use something like this to help them achieve their goal of "racial and economic justice".

      see: Obama collecting personal data for a secret race database
      at: http://nypost.com/2015/07/18/obama-has-been-collecting-personal-data-for-a-secret-race-database/

    4. Re:Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that with enough uptake it's no longer a self-extinguishing problem, but a shutting-you-out problem. No DNA profile with that third party website? No access to facebook, google+, whatnot else. With even governments (like, infamously, the UK gov't) considering using facebook profiles to "authenticate" citizens for access to government services, it's easy to see that this may well end badly.

      And you can't really leave this to "the market" because it inherently shuts out the negative control feedback, since shut-out people have no voice. A bit like the breakage and shutting out of visitors by "upgrading" your website to cloudflare -- and cloudflare deciding some visitors are really spambots even though they're merely behind CGNAT that cloudflare didn't know about, for example -- that may or may not even be visible in site stats.

      Would you mind being an overlooked minority statistic if that means complete loss of access to, say, all government services?

      So while "don't play ball" is a good start, it may well not be enough.

    5. Re:Somebody had to write it by MtHuurne · · Score: 1

      A sensible government would create its own authentication infrastructure instead of relying on an external platform. Unfortunately, the UK government hasn't displayed a lot of sense lately when it comes to privacy.

      As someone without a Facebook account, I know it can be problematic when people and other companies just assume you'll have no problem giving up privacy for a little convenience. I think though that a genetic profile is considered more private to many people than their chats and photos, so they'll be less likely to hand it over just as easily. For example the sharing of electronic medical data is something that generated a lot of resistance here in the Netherlands.

      In any case, trying to stop this at the technology level is a lost cause, since it is just too easy to write the code. If you'd want to stop it with regulation, you'd have to do it at the policy level: forbid sites to use it. But looking at ineffective half-measures like the EU cookie directive, I have more confidence in end users rejecting genetic access control than in legislation blocking it.

    6. Re:Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A sensible government would create its own authentication infrastructure instead of relying on an external platform.

      Eg. the Germans do, building on open standards and such. They're generally fairly sensible, except that there too you see unfortunate side effects. Like the "De-Mail" verified email account construct. While relatively straight-forward and sensible, it easily means private citizens need to sign up for a favoured webmail (and hand over lots of identity documentation to that third party) in lieu of running their own (if they know what they're doing, much more reliable and secure) email service. Of course, such capable people are a relative rarity, but that doesn't mean you should build your system to shut them out. Another side effect is that non-governmental organisations are starting to insist on using such a de-mail approved email address, something they really have no business doing.

      You see that sort of effect elsewhere too, for example through mandatory carrying of identity cards, that then start to be required (and these days, conveniently copied or scanned) by steadily more organisations that will refuse you service if you don't let them make that copy, even though the letter of the law forbids them from even asking. In practice, very little you can do about it.

      For a historical comparison, look at British wartime identity cards. In particular, look at the reasons for instituting it, how it didn't get repealed when those reasons vanished, and then follow the growth of the "functions" for which it was required over time. From three to thirty-nine in just a few short years.

      Unfortunately, the UK government hasn't displayed a lot of sense lately when it comes to privacy.

      Very few governments do.

      For example the sharing of electronic medical data is something that generated a lot of resistance here in the Netherlands.

      And yet it's getting rammed down everyone's throats regardless. In actual practice, in multiple ways, merely without the tainted name that got people riled up.

      In any case, trying to stop this at the technology level is a lost cause, since it is just too easy to write the code.

      Trying to simply stop it is like holding back the tide. That doesn't work. If that's all you got from the previous posts you need to think again.

      If you'd want to stop it with regulation, you'd have to do it at the policy level: forbid sites to use it.

      We'd first need sensible policies and governments that meaningfully enforce them, starting with themselves. The trend is rather the reverse: Senseless policies and governments that flout their own rules with impunity, and revel in punishing the wrong people for the wrong reasons, to make a good show of being seen to be doing something, but otherwise don't give a whit or have a clue.

      But looking at ineffective half-measures like the EU cookie directive,

      The EU cookie directive is very much make-like-we-do-something legislation. It makes people click "for their own good" even though it buys them less than nothing, it is very visible in-your-face, and in the end it hasn't improved a thing.

      I have more confidence in end users rejecting genetic access control than in legislation blocking it.

      The point was to make clear that we have to conciously think about this sort of thing, and decide for ourselves whether we want to be puppets of (someone else steering us through) our technology, or whether we want it to serve us.

      Too many people don't really think about this, and don't begin to understand the issues, the ramifications, the consequences. We need more people that have thought about it and can talk about it intelligently.

    7. Re:Somebody had to write it by parenthephobia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What on Earth does the NY Post think "secret" means? Not only does the administration admit they're making this database, they've said it will be partially open to the public. That isn't a secret database. That's the opposite of a secret database.

    8. Re:Somebody had to write it by RDW · · Score: 1

      I think the author, using the "offensive-computing" nick, knew very well that this would trigger a discussion and that's probably the reason this project was created in the first place.

      Yes, mod this up as the most insightful contribution to the thread so far. Although the author is careful to use other example in the readme, the code and example application are (provocatively) written to discriminate against everyone except the usual racist definition of 'white Europeans'. The 'European' group of reference populations defined by 23andme would normally include Ashkenazi Jews:

      https://customercare.23andme.c...

      but this group is explicitly excluded by offensive-computing:

      https://github.com/offapi/rbac...

    9. Re:Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you should be doing instead of fuming over the details is ... think long and hard as to ... what we want [technology] to not do.

      How does wanting technology to not do something help? Other people that DO want it to do that thing will make it do it.

    10. Re:Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This tool wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't an incentive for that DNA-collecting site to exist in the first place. In the ideal world, that site wouldn't exist because in an ideal world, people wouldn't be fucking stupid morons and would value their data.

      The problem is not the tools, the problem are the fucking stupid people and Idiocracy becoming too real every fucking day.

    11. Re:Somebody had to write it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shitty arguments are why we can't have nice things.

  4. I'm racist aginst bots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those little spammers and their marketing BS are not welcome.

  5. Sounds PC to me by frovingslosh · · Score: 3, Funny

    Finally a way to avoid offending certain people and gorillas.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  6. A self limiting problem by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So visitors to his website:
    * Must have been sequenced by 23andMe
    * And be so interested in his website that they are willing to give him access to their genetic data
    * And meet whatever genetic filter he has imposed.

    At this point, what he is running is less of a 'website', more of a 'diary', as it will have only one reader.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    1. Re:A self limiting problem by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This thing was created by somebody identifying as "Offensive Application Programming Initiative".
      It is obviously not meant as a serious authentication system, it just shows what is possible if we give out too much personal information.

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    2. Re:A self limiting problem by ne0n · · Score: 1

      This whole "article" is an inflammatory red herring. Why mislead us that race is the only criteria upon which access is granted/denied? Could just as easily be blood type, maternal lineage, gender or anything at all. Big surprises in store for a lot of folks who think skin color is important :)

      --
      $ :(){ :|:& };:
  7. In other news many racists change their tunes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It is easy to see how such code would be used to discriminate based on issues such as race or ancestry. With that in mind imagine how many skinheads, neo-nazis, klanners, and other groups will use this to restrict access to their website and their members will have to get these reports in order to have access and then discover that their DNA isn't as pure as they first thought.

  8. End of Mankind? by wisebabo · · Score: 2

    I didn't realize that "race" could now be determined by a genetic sequence (or two). If true this may lead to some very troubling possibilities.

    It would be possible using CRISPR (a recently developed means of precisely targeting an exact genetic sequence) to have a virus that could infect just one particular population. Smallpox comes to mind because 1) very few people in the world are currently vaccinated against it (it was made extinct a while ago) and 2) its DNA has been sequenced and published online. So, using a DNA synthesis machine you could make a version of this virus that would target a particular population.

    I believe such machines can now make DNA sequences long enough to create viruses. I also remember someone creating a much more lethal version of smallpox that could kill all of the laboratory animals it infected, including ones vaccinated against "normal" smallpox (I think it was 100% lethal).

    Of course, making a virus that would go after a particular Sex as opposed to a racial characteristic should be much easier (just target any gene found on one of the sex chromosomes and not the other.) This particular scenario was explored in Frank Herbert's book "The White Plague". A related scenario might be the film "Children of Men" where all the women(?) are made sterile.

    1. Re:End of Mankind? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      The US Government has had this for years.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    2. Re:End of Mankind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cops have been using DNA to determine the race of suspects for years.

    3. Re:End of Mankind? by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      The sociological races can't be determined all that accurately with a few DNA sequences. It's more of a game of probabilities: certain sequences correlate highly with certain sociological races. Quite a few errors, though, in part because not everyone's self-identified race is actually the ethnic descent they think it is. For example, some people who believe themselves to be "ethnic Swedes" are actually of Finnish origin, and vice versa, but don't know their family history long enough back to know that. Also, many "white" people have some proportion of non-white heritage.

    4. Re:End of Mankind? by Suiggy · · Score: 1

      All cops are racist and should be arrested and made to face their crimes against humanity. No racists on our streets!

    5. Re: End of Mankind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure that super-intelligent killer AI robots being made by basement-dwellers around the world will bring about the end of mankind far sooner than this github repo will.

    6. Re:End of Mankind? by larwe · · Score: 3, Informative

      *Every* white person has "some proportion of non-white heritage", because the human species has pretty damn convincingly been shown to have evolved in Africa.

    7. Re:End of Mankind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Descendant of Swedish immigrants to the US here.....I never really thought Finnish people were all that genetically different from us or Norwegians for that matter. Perhaps there are enough differences in general for there to be a distinction but the only way most people are going to be able to tell them apart is by recognizing what language they are speaking or if they tell you.

      In fact it would be hard to distinguish most Scandinavians from most Germans or many other Europeans.

    8. Re:End of Mankind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you believe in EVOLUTION then you believe family lines tend to acquire differences that make them superior or inferior in various ways that give some groups advantages that help them become the dominant species or fork off to an isolated environment. You also can't believe in God so there is no morality. Hence you are the perfect candidate and have proven Racism is justified.

      The truth is: God has hand made us, all unique, and has counted every hair on our head. We are to love others as he has loved us. Maybe families do tend to share similar traits, "you think?"! Both in the way we look, our physical abilities and even our mental abilities. But we are all equal in Gods eyes. We are all together sinners, and need God to guard our minds from treating people wrongly. When we must, we need to judge based on the content of ones Character.

      My point is that yes, racism does unfortunately exist, and the reason is that people are rejecting Gods commands, and instead are trying to fit the pieces together in a way that justifies their theories and beliefs. Especially when using things like DNA and carbon dating that we either no so relatively little about, or have so many guestimated variables thats its just not to much trouble to bend the theories to fit our whim.

    9. Re:End of Mankind? by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

      And they have been using race to determine who to bring in for questioning for decades before that....

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    10. Re:End of Mankind? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      So, while I'm blindingly pasty white, I'm still an African-American.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    11. Re: End of Mankind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the science of dna and carbon dating isn't as solid as the science of religion? Yea because God has been proven to exist since forever :/. No thank you, I'll continue to follow the laws of science over religion.

      Religion has been dividing us since it was first thought of. The crusaders killed anyone who wasn't catholic. If that isn't racist I don't know what is.

    12. Re:End of Mankind? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      You, and everyone else, has African ancestors, the same way that everyone has non-human primate ancestors (and probably fish ancestors, for that matter). If you go back far enough along your own line they'll be there.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    13. Re:End of Mankind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      exactly

    14. Re:End of Mankind? by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      True, more precisely I should've said "recent non-white heritage". The DNA sequence tests aren't looking for correlations that go back that far in the past.

    15. Re:End of Mankind? by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      The Scandinavians are all very similar, but the Finns are historically distinct, more closely related to other eastern groups like the Karelians (nowadays in Russia) and Estonians. But a substantial portion of modern Finns are descended from other groups, mainly Swedes.

  9. Racism? What about family/tribe only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why did so many jump to the racism label? Suppose there was a family or tribal asset that is exclusive and members are readily identified by genetics? Aborigines have artifacts maintained at museums that are only accessible by their specific tribe. Native American tribes bestow benefits to their tribal members (which need to be verified). Why is this assumed to be used to do evil unto others?

  10. Re:Finally... by frovingslosh · · Score: 0

    Think about how that might not work out well for you, Barack. You'll be better off if you just keep saying "there is no precedent for that" when people suggest a good idea that you don't want to implement, and ignoring precedent the rest of the time. Let the crackers see your whitehouse.gov website, it isn't like you really listen to any of the petitions on it anyway.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  11. valid uses other than racism by frovingslosh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    There are other valid uses other than racism I just want to use it to keep the people with a Y chromosome deficiency away from my jobs recruiting website. I do that now by putting plenty of links to Ophra.com on the website and that works pretty well for diverting away most of the unwanted traffic, but every once in a while an unwanted applicant sneaks through.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  12. Re:Finally... by meadow · · Score: 1

    Now only people with a 30% chance of being able to smell asparagus in urine will be able to visit my site!

  13. Bill Maher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Surely you mean "orange haired orangutans".

    1. Re:Bill Maher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we still talking about monkeys or about SJWs?

  14. Whoosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can snarkily suppose all you want, but that doesn't mean you are making sense, or that you're helping find a solution. We could have nice things but there is a price: At a high level we must take responsibility for our technology use and make choices as to what we want. If you're unwilling to choose someone else will choose for you, even as an "emergent property", and those choices will primarily serve their interests, not yours.

    The point is that we have to make choices, we can no longer afford not to. The technology is no longer meaningfully restricted by its limitations. So the current situation to just do whatever because whatever, ie "because we can", really isn't tenable: We'd end up with an unaffordable situation, possibly one we can no longer get out of.

    Thus it follows that we, and I mean collectively, not just entire countries but we-as-in-humanity-we need to figure out what choices we want to make. That's all of us, or at least those of us who are prepared to think hard and say intelligent things about it.

    Are you prepared to at least think about this sort of thing, or do you want to be unconstructively snarky some more?

  15. GitHub TOS by cybervegan · · Score: 1

    This has got to be against the Terms of Service, right?

    1. Re:GitHub TOS by MtHuurne · · Score: 2

      Article G7 of the GitHub ToS reads:

      We may, but have no obligation to, remove Content and Accounts containing Content that we determine in our sole discretion are unlawful, offensive, threatening, libelous, defamatory, pornographic, obscene or otherwise objectionable or violates any party's intellectual property or these Terms of Service.

      GitHub could decide to remove the project as "offensive" or "objectionable", which are pretty generic words.

      However, the code itself is entirely neutral: it just requests API access via OAuth. It is the potential use by web sites that could be undesired. I think shutting down the GitHub project would be shooting the messenger.

      For me personally, the most shocking aspect of this news is that 23andMe has an API for third parties to access your DNA profile.

    2. Re:GitHub TOS by larwe · · Score: 2

      The reason they have this API is basically "because FDA". I don't know the *current* legal status, but at one point 23andme was essentially shut down by the FDA for providing unlicensed diagnostic services. Taking a spit sample and turning it into a written list of base pairs isn't diagnosis, so that part was still FDA-OK. It's comparison against known markers for diseases that's diagnosis. So they turned the "diagnosis" part of the business over to a licensed third party (or rather, they gave you the option of selecting the third party of your choice. Or simply using grep ;))

  16. Valid for some website ideas by GLowder · · Score: 1

    What if someone wanted a forum for say, Huntington's disease (just to pick a random genetic problem). What if they wanted a section where only people who truly have Huntington's can share their experiences without getting trolled by just any person? (duh, people with Huntington's could troll too, but you get what I mean). Just to say, not everything having to do with someone's genetic code is "racist". Almost makes me think the OP is just trolling too.

    --
    I used to have a good sig...
    1. Re:Valid for some website ideas by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      No, no, he has an important point. While we're at it, have you seen that new thing in America? Running water? This is literally the infrastructure to drown witches and babies you don't want!

    2. Re:Valid for some website ideas by preaction · · Score: 1

      But then the Fight Club would never get started, and we wouldn't have Project Mayhem.

  17. All other implications aside, but... by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

    how secure could that actually be as an access control?

    I mean, the access control isn't checking your DNA. It is checking if you have access to a genetic profile of someone with matching criteria. Or, as a completly different attack vector: access to body fluids of someone matching the allowed filters. ("whitelisting" gets a whole new meaning here....)

    --
    bickerdyke
    1. Re:All other implications aside, but... by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      So, we can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:All other implications aside, but... by preaction · · Score: 1

      Communism isn't part of our DNA... yet

  18. If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Suiggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought the narrative was that race doesn't exist? That we're all the same race? How then is is possible that one can determine so called race by examining the genetic profile of a person?

    Is it possible we were lied to and that race is indeed something that can be determined as a composition of genes and other genetic data?

    1. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Sique · · Score: 1

      Maybe 23andMe will yield exactly that result? Because genetic markers are many, and because there are no clear cut races of humans, but rather a continuum of different sets of genetic markers, sites that use 23andMe to permit access will find out that they either have to loosen their criteria to enable access to all the people they want or they have to tighten controls to keep people out they don't want but at the same time exclude many which would fit their agenda.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    2. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Suiggy · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you're telling me race exists? That sounds racist! How dare you say that, you vile bigot!

    3. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I thought the narrative was that race doesn't exist? That we're all the same race? How then is is possible that one can determine so called race by examining the genetic profile of a person?

      Is it possible we were lied to and that race is indeed something that can be determined as a composition of genes and other genetic data?

      it all depends on what the definition of is is.

      if humanity IS one species means humanity is a single species AND its members cannot be further subdivided into groups by constellations of heritable traits, like skin, hair, and eye pigmentation, and morphological characteristics, then you can argue that race must not exist. this would only be possible if such traits were not demonstrably heritable.

      if humanity IS one species means humanity is a single species BUT its members CAN be further subdivided into groups by constellations of heritable traits... etc., then race DOES exist, and such traits ARE heritable, therefore, race does exist, although that existance should NOT be used to imply or imagine that different races have more differences than they do to serve an agenda that holds that one race is somehow better than another because there isnt THAT much under-the-skin difference as is made obvious that we can all interbreed and you only see that between populations of the same species.

      also, that line of thinking tends to result in dickishness, as has been observed over and over again.

      finally, who the fuck publicizes their fucking DNA? is there room on the 23andMe profile page for a complete set of fingerprints, a SSN, a DOB, home address, mother's maiden name, blood type and group, mug shot, all your credit card numbers, expiration dates and security codes, website logins and passwords, religious affiliations, and bust/penis size and circumcision status?!?

    4. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Sique · · Score: 1
      That's what I exactly don't say:

      because there are no clear cut races of humans

      Instead I was talking about arbitrary cutoffs where some genetic markers are allowed and others aren't, but they don't fit a racist agenda. You could for instance block off everyone missing both the immunoglobulin A allel and the immunoglobulin B allel, and then you allow access only to people with blood group 0. It would probably work, but your blood group is no indicator for the perceived race.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    5. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If your hair colour is brown, then you'll have different genetic marks than someone with black hair.
      If your skin colour is brown, then you'll have different genetic marks than someone with white skin.

      Yet we don't separate brown/black hair into 'races'. Segregation into 'racial categories'/discrimmination against skin colour is a societal thing. So it doesn't matter what the genes say, this needs to be solved on a mental level.

    6. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is there something in our genes that makes our skin a certain color? Most certainly there is. There's also something in there that determines your facial properties, the color of your eyes and hair, your height and so on, all those little tidbits that make you you.

      It's funny, though, that the color of the skin is given such a huge amount of importance. It strikes me as a bit arbitrary. I mean, why that? Why not, say, whether your fingers are skinny or chubby? Why is one genetic expression the all important one, considering there are so incredibly many of them?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Suiggy · · Score: 1

      You're a vile racist and it's sickening that you're not even aware of your own racism.

    8. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hating someone based on skin color has also always struck me as arbitrarily superficial. After all, there exists human garbage of all colors.

    9. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The 'race doesn't exist' argument means that if you pick a random black person and a random white person then they're likely to have as much (if not more) genetic material in common than if you pick two black people or two white people. i.e. trying to infer anything beyond skin colour from skin colour is basically meaningless. It doesn't mean that the genes for skin colour (or hair colour or eye colour) are not identifiable.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by dave420 · · Score: 2

      Grown-ups are talking. Be quiet.

    11. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by larwe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If everyone was a single homogeneous skin color, the exact same discriminations would be occurring on the basis of eye color, or eyelash color, or penis length. It just happens to be a big, easy to read signal differentiating "us" from "not us". (Actually I think the answer to "why skin color" has a lot to do with the fact that white races were isolated from black races for a long time after they, y'know, evolved from an originally black common ancestor, and when they did meet black people again it was in a conqueror/enslaver vs conquered/enslaved context).

    12. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not arbitrary but evolutionarily conserved. It comes down to tribalism and an 'us or them' attitude. Our ancestors preferred to be around others that looked like them for self-preservation because they were likely to be raped and/or killed by getting too close to others.

    13. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      This is, btw, the reason for business suits. It creates an atmosphere of "belonging" among other people wearing business suits.

      It's also the reason why techs react very poorly to people in business suits. Ok, not really, we all know that people wearing business suits all suck at doing anything right and they have no idea about anything.

      Only people wearing black t-shirts and jeans along with boots know their shit. I mean, look at the guy, he needn't hide behind fancy clothing, he must be great at his job!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly, what you said is absolutely correct.

    15. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you that retarded? Why should anyone take the time to answer a question that you can even bother to look up, failing of course to learn it in middle school?

    16. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Exactly. as humans we love to hate others.

      Damn those people that live by the river, they are inferior to us mountian dwellers!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tell that to a redhead

    18. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 4, Funny

      If humanity IS one species means humanity is a single species BUT its members CAN be further subdivided into groups by constellations of heritable traits

      Humanity can't be further subdivided. Subspecies is the only recognized taxonomic level below species and the most important trait of a subspecies is that, while they are capable of interbreeding with and producing fertile offspring, they do not interbreed in nature.

      While there are racists who fervently wish it wasn't so, we're long past the days when interracial relationships weren't common. While the racists in the world whine and cry about racial purity, the rest of the human race is happily fucking its way toward homogeneity

    19. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Why is one genetic expression the all important one

      Because they are ignorant racists. Do you really have to even pretend to ask the question? Its not about something thats actually wrong with them, its about continuing some racists ignorance about people and historically they've only had skin color to cue on so they can't suddenly pretend skin color is irrelevant, if they did they might have to acknowledge the stupidity of the whole premise.

      People hate things that are different. Skin color is something they can see from far away as different.

      This isn't about actual differences in people (of which there are many between races in general! Both good and bad, in every 'race') its about the perceived difference in people and the stupidity that follows.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    20. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Finally, something to keep those pesky gingers away!

    21. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Given recent history just let MS loose with it and there'll be a website up there in mutes that will largelly think you're a black jew of icelandic descent witha bacon fetish

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    22. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Not exactly.
      It is pure evolution in action stranger=danger. It is a biological adaptation to trust the people that are most like us. You trust your close family more than your more distant family and so on. The easer to see the difference the greater the distrust. From an evolutionary point of view the amount people look, smell, and act alike reflects the amount of common genetic material they share. So you care more about their survival and they care about yours.
      Frankly the fact that humans have come so far in ignoring this instinct show just how important community is to humans.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    23. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by larwe · · Score: 2

      Participation in community is itself either an evolutionary pressure, or an evolutionary outcome - probably both. The need for language is a direct result of community life. If you don't live in a community, the only things you really need to communicate to others are 1) I'm ready for sexytimes, and 2) fuck off invader, this territory/mate/tree/cave/carcase is mine - both of which can be achieved with physical structures and/or pheremones, no need for language. And a huge amount of the human brain is dedicated to language processing.

    24. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by BVis · · Score: 2

      Fearing the other, along with aggression, blind loyalty, lust, anger, etc. are primitive emotions that originate in the "reptile brain" that we all have in our heads. Ever since the cerebral cortex (the "mammal brain") evolved, those two systems have been in a death struggle for control of the organism. We see the results of our baser dispositions every day. War, aggression, rape, cults, greed.. you only need to turn on the news to find examples of this struggle.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    25. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      It's funny, though, that the color of the skin is given such a huge amount of importance. It strikes me as a bit arbitrary. I mean, why that? Why not, say, whether your fingers are skinny or chubby? Why is one genetic expression the all important one, considering there are so incredibly many of them?

      I always figured that it basically boiled down to skin color being easily identifiable. When you look at a person, you can tell their skin color which means (if you're a racist) you can easily tell if the person is $GOOD_RACE (i.e. the one you belong to) or $BAD_RACE (everyone else). Compare this against religious affiliation. This is harder because, looking at me, you can't tell right away whether I'm Jewish, Christian, Atheist, etc. (My last name is a bit of a giveaway, but we'll assume you just spotted me on the street and didn't know my name.)

      Of course, where "skin color easily identified" fails is that more and more people have a mixed ancestry which means you might not be able to easily tell - from sight - just what race they belong to. (Where "belong to" means "the group that the racist is going to stick them with.") Then again, racists aren't known for seeing the world in shades of grey. There's black and white (literally). One group is good and one group is bad and that's that. Anything more complex makes their brains hurt.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    26. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Racism against "ginger" is the new anti-back rhetoric.

      Next time, in your workplace (I'm guessing, since it happens in mine) that someone cracks a "ginger joke" simply refuse to laugh, and point out to them: "how funny would that be if you replaced 'ginger' with 'black'".

      Reveal the latent racism for what it actually is.

      Not APK.

    27. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When were "white" and "black" people isolated from each other? Maybe they were separated by glaciers at some point, but certainly not until immediately before the mass enslavement of Africans.

    28. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I know what you mean. Africans raided Europe for hundreds of years, enslaving entire towns and hauling them off. It finally only came to an end in the middle of the 18th century, not even 200 years ago. Oh, that's not what you meant? Huh, odd that this isn't taught. Let's use critical thinking and analyze why this part of history is badthink.

    29. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recommend we start discriminating against people based on characteristics that actually matter, not superficial things like skin color. Things like their culture (whether they can live in a civil manner) and their psychology. Sociopaths and people with big egos, who make life miserable for everyone around them, should be charged more and listened to less, for instance. What do you say?

    30. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'race doesn't exist' argument means that if you pick a random black person and a random white person then they're likely to have as much (if not more) genetic material in common than if you pick two black people or two white people.

      What does "likely" mean here? I'm sure it cannot mean ">=50%", because: taken two random people, we know nothing about their genetic similarity. So two pairs of random people have, statistically, exactly the same amount of common genes. If you then name _any_ genetic trait, doesn't matter which one, and pick two people (pair A), who differ in this single trait, then they must, again only statistically, be _less_ similar, than the two totally random people (pair B). The only thing that we know about pair A is that, among all the traits that could be the same or different, there is one for which we already know that it is different. Right? Or where is my mistake?

    31. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're telling me that Brown Bears and Polar Bears are the same species and should not be treated differently?

      Remember, they produce fertile offspring when interbred.

      A wolf does with a dog. The wolf is a wild, untameable dangerous animal, a dog can be tamed.

      So that means, character traits are also inheritable, within one species. Well...

    32. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Excluding the trait that your comparing for. The skin colour does not strongly correlate with enough other genetic traits to be able to identify a population.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    33. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by RedK · · Score: 1

      I thought the narrative was that race doesn't exist?

      You have to understand who you're dealing with in these articles. The narrative is the EXACT opposite of "egalitarianism" or "humanism". The people posting these things are Snake-oil salesmen and their business is to sell on you on their Identity Politics as hard as they can.

      To them, Humanism (one race) and Egalitarianism is like rat poison. The very basis of those idealogies runs completely contrary to Identity Politics, by virtue of not recognizing Race, Gender, Sex, Religion or any other "minority oppression points" someone may have.

      Except Class. Identity politics idealogues, being mostly American slackitivists running on Trust funds don't recognize class inequality, and will call you "basement dwelling" or "low rent tenant" as an insult.

      The narrative is anything that can get them preferrential treatment for a given characteristic they possess and that you do not. Oh and they can be bigots against you, because supposedly, you're the one oppressing them, with your basement dwelling 6$ an hour job, while they throw slurs at you from their cushy San Fran housing, paid for by Rich Daddy/Mommy money.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
    34. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. I prefer to get to know people just so I can hate them on a deeper more meaningful level.

    35. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      seriously. "ginger" isn't even hard to figure out, as far as anagrams go.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    36. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by disposable60 · · Score: 1

      Ginger is an anagram for black - or at least one of its synonyms.

      --
      You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
    37. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by MightyYar · · Score: 0

      Remember, they produce fertile offspring when interbred.

      But they don't interbreed unless a person intervenes.

      A wolf does with a dog. The wolf is a wild, untameable dangerous animal, a dog can be tamed.

      Ignoring for the moment that a wolf is basically a wild dog, again they only breed when man intervenes. Dogs wouldn't exist at all without man's intervention.

      So that means, character traits are also inheritable, within one species. Well...

      Weird logic jump, but yes, character traits are heritable. Humans haven't been selectively bred by a weird outside force who wants a docile animal with a smooshed up face and breathing trouble. Humans quite obviously inherit their character traits from their parents. But if you take your typical brown American, they probably have European, native American, and African ancestry. Maybe some Asian. How the hell are you going to classify that person, let alone try to correlate their inherited skin color to their inherited personality? A classification system that cannot classify the President (or nearly 1/3 of the US) is pretty useless.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    38. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by amias · · Score: 1

      although it also true that you are more likely to suffer violence from people you know and are related to than from strangers

      of course there are many other factors at play here

      --
      [site]
    39. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by LeadSongDog · · Score: 2

      is there room on the 23andMe profile page for a complete set of fingerprints, a SSN, a DOB, home address, mother's maiden name, blood type and group, mug shot, all your credit card numbers, expiration dates and security codes, website logins and passwords, religious affiliations, and bust/penis size and circumcision status?!?

      No, silly, that stuff goes on Facebook.

      The real problem is the very existence of 23andme and its ilk, aggravated by the fact that it belongs to Ancestry.com, a corporate branch of one particularly agressive missionary church. (Caution: If you're gonna come to my doorstep, you're gonna have to listen to MY ideas. This may endanger not just your soul but those of your unbaptised ancestors!)

      --
      Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
    40. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You do see the irony in you painting them as ignorant fools for generalizing a group of people they don't know, right?

      Just checking...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    41. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      why the fuck...

      Why should I hate everyone who is Christian because there are some fundamentalist idiots who try to push their crap into school books and who picket abortion clinics? Yes, it's despicable, but that doesn't mean I should hate Christians and paint them with an overly broad brush, most of them are just decent fellows who just happen to have a certain religion, love their kids and wife, want to live their life in peace, pray to their god and leave me alone when I tell them that it ain't mine and that I'm not interested in it. Just because there's those idiots who have nothing better to do in their life than to ring my doorbell at 8 in the morning to tell me about their fairy godmother, who try to teach their bollocks like it's some real stuff in schools and think it's their business to tell me and everyone around some horror stories about how their imaginary buddy hates me? That doesn't mean that every Christian is like this and out to go on my nerves.

      And the same applies to vegetarians, managers and opera singers. Not every vegetarian is a PETA vegeterrorist, not every manager is a heartless asshole and not every opera singer is a egocentric diva.

      I mean, would you like me to put your comment into the same loony bin the goatse ACs go?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    42. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      Thus showing that the definition of species is useless in any discussion about human interaction. Cro Magnon man interbred with the Neanderthals on a fairly regular basis until they died out. The Denisovians may or may not have interbred with a separate offshoot of homo erectus.

    43. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by bledri · · Score: 1

      You do see the irony in you painting them as ignorant fools for generalizing a group of people they don't know, right?

      Just checking...

      There is a HUGE difference between judging people based on their skin color (which tells you nothing about a person except the range of photons they reflect), and judging people based on them believing that skin color is an important measure of a person (which tells you they have not thought rationally on the matter and that they let they're fear and in-group pressures rule their intellect.) This is "natural" for a social animal that evolved/survived living in small tribes, but not optimal for cohabitation on the planet peacefully. The technical term for such people is, "ignorant racists." They lack the knowledge that race is not a good proxy for determining the intelligence nor moral character of a human being.

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    44. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      That's what I exactly don't say:

      "The little boat glided across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't."

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    45. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by ADRA · · Score: 1

      In a word, tribalism. We're still living it. It kept our species alive and strong long before the advent of 'modern society' and it'll probably take a few dozen more generations before we actually have a handle on it. Well, it depends significantly on inter-breeding visual indicators into a larger kaleidoscope of sub-races (making visual racism harder to pin down), but time will tell I suppose.

      --
      Bye!
    46. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. That's a wonderful take on "blood purism".

    47. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by John+Bokma · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Recommended reading: Getting Stoned With Savages; J. Maarten Troost.

    48. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by larwe · · Score: 1

      :D As an Australian (at least for the next few weeks), I'll also point you to the Walibri tribe, who putatively shake penises rather than shaking hands when they greet each other.

    49. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      There is debate about whether Cro-Magnon should be classed as a separate species or as a subspecies of Homo sapiens. The interbreeding is part of that debate. It increasingly looks like they will end up classed as a subspecies, but who knows. Classifications change as new information is discovered.

    50. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by larwe · · Score: 1

      You completely misread what I wrote. I was stating that after a long period of the populations being separate (in fact, long enough for two initially identical populations to diverge enough that they have radically different average albedo), when white people met black people, it was a case of whites as invaders and blacks as the invaded. I don't recall any stories of clipper ships sailing from sub-Saharan Africa to raid Finland. It was entirely the other way. Fucking plate tectonics, man.

    51. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by larwe · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you're asking here. The generally accepted view is that the human race - almost certainly of dark skin color - originated in Africa, and radiated outwards from there. Through glaciation and tectonics, various populations became isolated from one another. For whatever reason, the populations that stayed closer to home kept their melanin. The populations that wound up in colder climates lost theirs and became whiter of skin. And various mutations related to hair color and texture and eye color also occurred. Due to the aforementioned isolation, there was no interbreeding possible with the humans who remained closer to our origin point. So, divergent races that - after a few generations - didn't know anything about each other any more, until they developed long-distance sailing technology and started killing each other for fun and profit.

    52. Re: If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good SJWs get a sense of moral superiority that makes it all worth it. You don't have to be successful, or kind, or even appreciative, all you need to know is when not to laugh, and you're better than everyone else.

    53. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      No, AC did not misread. You've just chosen to completely fucking ignore history in favour of a racial attack on white people.

      Nice try picking fucking Finland but consider how much of Europe was passed to get to the UK from Africa: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/b...

    54. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by larwe · · Score: 1

      There's an utterly rabid response for you. For the record, I'm white. Completely white, for at least the past few hundred years of fairly complete family tree tracing. Baltic white on my maternal side, and British Isles on my paternal. And I suspect I know a metric shitload more about my family (and racial) history than you know about, well, anything much really.

    55. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      That's nice, and thank you for sharing. I hope your in-depth understanding of your familial history gives you warm fuzzy feelings deep inside.

      I think however it's clear that I know more about African and European history than you do though, given you've completely ignored the evidence I presented that you were talking complete and total nonsense.

    56. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not for the 2+ billion years that evolution was in progress, which is what supplied humans with such cognitive traits. We didn't just pop out of the ground last year, fool.

    57. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Race ain't a good proxy for anything as far as I know. Except maybe the chance of getting sunburn when standing outside in Summer. But I can't even say I have any evidence for this, it's mostly just my prejudice.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    58. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Great! Now you are saying black people smell?!? Racist! /s ;)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    59. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Actually in cases like Grizzlies and Polar bears, they do breed naturally in cases like currently where due to climate change, their habitats are now overlapping. Then there are cases like Wolves and Coyotes where the Coyote has extended its range into Wolf territory and there is now interbreeding.
      Populations get separated, evolve in different directions and at some point become different species. It's happened before with Humanity where the Neanderthal was a sub-species or separate species depending on how you measure and if current populations of Humanity had stayed separate, would have happened again as it was happening. An Inuit is much better evolved for cold then an African.
      Species is actually more of a spectrum thing and our labeling pretty arbitrary.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    60. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I agree. Substitute man's intervention for some other one-off event. It doesn't really change my point. Polar bears are separated from brown bears by less than half a million years - they may be more analogous to humans, which have less than a 100,000 to have differentiated. My point is that the differentiation - mild as it was - has now largely been undone. Especially here in the US where you have people with significant African heritage living as "white" people and the average "black" person having 30% European heritage. A classification system is completely useless from a scientific standpoint.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    61. Re:If race doesn't exist, how is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excrement Color Skin proven harmful... in google groups. It is IMPERATIVE and URGENT that we be able to decide the species based on analysis and not only apparent skin color to not be overrun by cannibals changing color down to pink or let Africans and Indians have claims that they are black and not excrement color. Africans and Indians are schizophrenics per se and provenly less intelligent to mention the least dangerous.

  19. Modern tech for outdated concept? by MtHuurne · · Score: 2

    The correlation between genes and culture is becoming weaker in the modern world. People have far more interaction than before with people from other backgrounds since travel is easier, many people live in large cities and people communicate online. Therefore, to guard access to an online community based on genetics seems like the wrong solution, since a superficial genetic profile will not predict how well an individual will fit into a community.

  20. rube goldberg code. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks too complicated. Folowing is simpler:
    1. Take users name.
    2. Download his picture from facebook.
    3. Use face recognition api to sum pixels in face to check if its white enough.

  21. Re:In other news many racists change their tunes.. by Suiggy · · Score: 5, Funny

    I agree, because only White people can be racist. Racism is privilege plus power. We need to stop racists from being able to do damage by programming software. They should be restricted from accessing Github and learning how to write software. We should round up all White programmers and scrutinize their political beliefs so that we can eliminate the poison that is racism from our society. It's the only way the future will be free from racism.

  22. Re:Finally... by Suiggy · · Score: 2

    But only white people can be racist. Racism = privilege + power. Only white people have privilege, whereas the People of Color lack privilege and social power. Therefore it's impossible for a Person of Color man to be racist. We must unite against all racists and purge them from our society. It's the only way the future will survive.

  23. Re:Racism? What about family/tribe only? by Suiggy · · Score: 1

    You sound like a racist. You should be ashamed, and then you should have your identity tracked down so you can be made an example of as the people of tolerance and peace have you removed from your job and your finances ruined. No racists on our streets!

  24. Does this site allow gay niggers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    No? Ok, I'll see myself out.

  25. Lock out all who haven't received Neaderthal genes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    > A GitHub project is using the 23andMe API for genetic decoding to act as a way to bar users from entering websites based on their genetic data — race and ancestry.

    This is very useful. Why should e.g. a syrian webforum allow access to jews, so that they can spew hasbara propaganda and recruit traitors to work for the Mossad in support of the saudi proxy's ISIS invasion?

    Why should e.g. a european webforum allow access to russians, so that they can spew militant panslavic putinist propaganda, deny responsibility for MH17's downing and the Katin massacre, while recruiting traitors to work for the FSB/GRU in support of the the upcoming muscovite invasion of the Baltics?

    Why should any web forum located outside of Africa grant access to nigerians, so that they can spew type 419 advance fee fraud, while calling whites stupid (even though the average adult negro has an IQ of just 70, which is considered slightly mentally retarded for whites, who have an average IQ of 95-100.)

    It is a matter of fact that human races are not equal. Those nations/people/tribes that have no neanderthal cross-breeding heritage, because they never migrated out of Africa or left the black continent too late, haven't received large-brain encoding genes from the Neanderthals and this means low IQ for them. The only people equal to the white caucasian race are the japanese.

    (Although one must mention that south koreans and iranians-persians have the potential to grow equals. Especially the ancient culture and philosophical heritage of the persians is underestimated by the western world, which is blinded by jewish propaganda. The Iran embargo doesn't work, exactly because they are a coherent, utmost patriotic, resourceful and clever nation and they do work, unlike arabs. Yet the world knows so little about them, because of the embargo.)

  26. Life will be full of little surprises by putaro · · Score: 1

    Like this white supremacist who found out that he's 14% African.

    1. Re:Life will be full of little surprises by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      Or this neo-nazi who discovered he was Jewish.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    2. Re:Life will be full of little surprises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you mean 'white SEPARATIST'? Or are you trying to imply that all white people on Earth are simply 'not allowed' to live with their own kind? Why? Surely you aren't implying that white people have got something which non-whites haven't, are you, that they would be 'deprived' of something if they weren't allowed to live around white people?

    3. Re:Life will be full of little surprises by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      Go back far enough, we're all 100% African.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:Life will be full of little surprises by preaction · · Score: 1

      White Supremacy is different from White Separatist. That's why they use different words. Even an AC of your clearly-below-average intelligence should be able to figure that out.

  27. impractical app, pointless controversy by Jesrad · · Score: 1

    I can't think of any practical use for such a Genetic Access Control method nor of a reason to feel outrage and clamor "racism". For a start, this app only works for users who are also 23andme clients anyway, who also agree to have the app access their data (à la Twitter), and I'd say those people pretty much already explicitly waived their genetic privacy.

    Also, I can attest to how widely inaccurate some of the results you get through the API can be, especially the ethnic origin results. In my case it's ~16% inaccurate. It's known to overstate european origins and downplay or entirely lack quite a few less common origins, as the comparison database misses data from entire ethnical groups (Sinté, Romani...) or has only a handful (or single) individual DNAs for many potential origins (Romania, Azerbaijan, etc.). And the haplogroups tree that the API reports from is outdated (and, again as in my case, very lacking of resolution in several branches).

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  28. Do they have a choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they have a choice to have a DNA profile accessible?

    In the UK, when police arrest you they take a DNA sample which goes onto a database. Then they can release you (no crime committed) but the DNA sample is still kept. They can arrest you for anything BTW, all offenses are arrestable, and many offsense are a joke, a simple opinion of an officer as to what constitutes bad behaviour. Tony Blairs lot wanted to add EVERYONE to the database and Jacqui Smith even tried. Now the other lot are in, but Home Secretary Theresa May is of the same type (anti male bitch thinks every person is a criminal till they prove themselves to be loyal), so this may come yet to pass.

    Another of Blairs innovations? Your home details can be obtained by anyone with your driving license plate number. Insurance companies have a lot of your details on their computers, direct from the government.

    So how long before your DNA is available to those same companies?

    Tony Blair is long gone, thank god, Jacqui Smith has gone too, but the opposition one, Theresa May, is the exact same mould. Thinks everyone is guilty until they prove their loyalty to her views. Is currently trying to justify mass surveillance with false "people will die" claims, after the court ruled it illegal.

    Whoever gets that job (Home Office), is a pro-surveillance person, because the spooks and police have a file on every candidate and ensure a compliant home secretary, because they already did the mass surveillance illegally anyway.

    1. Re:Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 5, Informative

      1) Kuwait has introduced a law mandating DNA testing for everyone, already. https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/... - it's required in order to get a government ID, and a government ID is required to live, basically. 2) In America, at least, the real problem with this code (and likely the real use case) is not blocking access to a website as an expression of "racism" (whatever that even means in this context), it would be using that profile to serve up content _selectively_. It's already been shown that Google gives different results to searches that include "black" names vs "white" ones: http://thevisualcommunicationg... - they could with perfect ease include this DNA data as an input signal to ad selection also. Searching for auto insurance? Your color blindness will cause the search to show worse deals. It's axiomatic that you should never, ever make unchangeable information with abuse potential of this sort accessible to anyone, if it can possibly be prevented.

    2. Re: Do they have a choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it selective when it is a neural net trained from the population? Genuine question.

    3. Re:Do they have a choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just though I should point out that the study you quoted is invalid based on the following.
      They used names that were already associated with a particular race. How is something raciest if the race its self is choosing it. So I pick a "black" name and search for it, the problem here is that he name is already identified as being associated with black individuals. This is like buying a bag of M&M's and expecting Skittles inside. Yes I know it's a fallacy to make this comparison, but it's the closest example I can think of. This is the same reason we cant rely on any Climate change data, they keep using algorithms that produce the specific results they are looking for. This is a form of data manipulation, not science.

      If you want a real example of this, i wrote a simple program that randomly threw Japanese syllables together, then did Google image searches for the results. (this is a very small subset of syllables available in many other languages like my native language English) The results were fairly unbiased, most resulted in nothing useful. But when i did get results I got Japanese name suggestions, Anime, Japanese profiles, etc... Almost no results for Anglo's or Black's, is the search biased. After I was using the Japanese language as a basis, so with logic from the article you quoted Google must be biased against my random generator.

      The point is if you are looking for it you will find it, even if it does not exist. Yes there is real racism, but most racism is just cultural differences. For example most interviewers go off gut instincts, well if you were raised in a predominately white environment you are going to have better feelings about whites over blacks, native Americans, or Asians, etc... It does not mean that you are raciest, it's a cultural difference, you know more about what to look for in a culture you are familiar with. This problem gets worse for people who have conditions that place them outside the norm such as those who have ADHD or Asperger's, really you should try imitating those behaviors then try and get hired. Racism is not when you recognize something, nor is it sexism. Racism is when someone knowingly chooses one race over another. It's that choice that makes it racism. Otherwise we are all raciest, sexist, hypocritical, bigots.

    4. Re: Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 1

      Interesting question, though how the "training" occurs is up for debate. It's unlikely to be that, though. It's more likely to be keyed on specific, easily identifiable markers that can be parsed out with deterministic algorithms.

    5. Re: Do they have a choice? by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It's already been shown that Google gives different results to searches that include "black" names vs "white" ones"

      And why wouldn't they, and why would you NOT expect to get different results?

      Searching for 'Louis Farrakhan' SHOULD give different results than searching for 'Maria Sharipova'. Or 'Lothrop Stoddard'.

      Such a vapid argument. Try harder, please.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    6. Re:Do they have a choice? by pla · · Score: 1

      It's already been shown that Google gives different results to searches that include "black" names vs "white" ones

      Wow - You mean putting different words in my Google search... Gives different results (or in the case you linked, different ads, arguably just another type of result)??? Those racist bastards!

      Seriously, what the fuck? No kidding, it gives different results! If I search for my name, it gives different results than if I search for Brad Pitt, despite having the same race and gender. Duh.

      The world still has real racism. Quit trying so hard to find it in places it can't exist (algorithmic search results), unless you seriously mean to accuse Google of biasing their algorithm to discriminate against people named Shaniqua.

    7. Re:Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The study, and the related hoopla (this is just one link), was designed to indicate that Google uses a non-obvious, racially skewed signal as an input to search and advertising results. Actually, they probably use more than one such signal. Oversimplified: if I am logged in as "Wilfred Fortescue-Smythe-Smythe III" and search for "bonds" I'll probably see advertising/results for investment vehicles. If I am logged in as "Taneisha Williams" and search for "bonds" I'll more likely see advertising/results for bail bonds. It's important to note that there is NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER that Google designs intentionally racist ad-ranking algorithms; they have too much to lose. What this phenomenon demonstrates is that complex, probably nondeterministic algorithms that sum a buttload of signals, which are designed to exploit demographic/psychographic characteristics to group users by willingness to purchase, can as an epiphenomenon amplify and expose demographic differences in purchasing behavior, some of which differences might cause political trouble with people in a given demographic who compare results with a different demographic. (This works both ways. Some of these "discriminatory" results give higher pricing on things to people in a "rich" demographic).

    8. Re: Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 2

      See my other reply on this same branch. That link I gave is just one of several, and possibly not the best reference - just the best I could find in a quick, inadequately caffeinated search this morning. (I was originally reading about airline pricing algorithms when I came across the information I was summarizing there. That led down a rabbit hole that gave the specific searching "bonds" = "investments" if you're white, "bail bonds" if you're black, example).

    9. Re:Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 1

      "Racism" (not the right word for it) CAN exist in algorithmic search results. Please see my other reply in this same branch of the thread.

    10. Re: Do they have a choice? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      what is up with people abusing the word "deterministic"? it has become a strange euphemism in the computing world, meaning something like "reliable" or "trustworthy".

      a deterministic algorithm can fuck up really, really badly (especially when it takes input from untrained or possibly malicious humans), while there are several stochastic algorithms that work quite well, often provably so. even chip cores have layouts optimized by stochastic hill-climbing!

      anyway, Google is in the business of showing person A what person B wants, which is usually the product of some person C. unless everyone in the world is non-racist, then of course the algorithms will either "be racist" or suboptimal. it would basically require a strong AI to change this. (A, B, C are not necessarily distinct.)

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    11. Re:Do they have a choice? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      What do I have to be logged in as to get info on Barry Bonds? Or all the actors who have played James Bond?

    12. Re:Do they have a choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you stupid shithead. The search terms are the same. The login names are different.

    13. Re:Do they have a choice? by pla · · Score: 1

      No, you stupid shithead. The search terms are the same. The login names are different.

      Reading comprehension fail, much?

      FTA: I wondered what a Google Image search would bring up if I typed in "black" names and "white" names.

      The author explicitly searched for names strongly associated with a particular race.

      But that said, let's play Devil's advocate, and pretend you didn't decide to jump in and start flinging feces without even reading the GP's linked article. If you've logged in, your own login name is a search term. You just don't actually enter it manually. Again - Brad Pitt no doubt gets ads for different products than I do, despite our shared race and gender.

    14. Re:Do they have a choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? Same race and gender, pla? Brad Pitt isn't Chinese

    15. Re: Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm a QA guy for a company that makes software used in hospitals. So, to me "knowing the expected output for a given input" is closely correlated with "reliable" and "trustworthy", and so yes, I tend to refer to deterministic algorithms positively. I realize the pressures on an advertisement-selecting algorithm are not the same. However I *ALSO* think that the DNA signals Google (or rather Google's advertisers) would be looking for are the less ambiguous things that are more easily detected with a simple deterministic algorithm. Yes, broader conclusions can be reached by letting a neural let look at a bunch of stuff. But an oncology clinic is going to be more interested in yes/no answers to questions like "does the searcher have DNA markers A,B,C,D,E [which are easily searchable deterministically]", and won't actually ask - or will rather assume the answer to - the underlying statistical question "do markers A,B,C,D,E correlate strongly to a predisposition to conditions that we can charge money to treat"?

    16. Re:Do they have a choice? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Someone intelligent enough to give Google a search term with more than one word.

    17. Re:Do they have a choice? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      If English is, as you claim, your native language then how did you manage to spell 'racist' wrong every single time? It is not like it is an obscure and difficult to spell word... Raciest means the most racy. Racy has not really got much to do with race when used to define differences in culture, genes, etc...

      I am not usually one to pick at spelling or grammar, my own is not infallible, but when I see really atrocious and egregious errors it makes me immediately discount anything the person said. That is a failing of my own, I suppose. However, I do not think I can adjust accordingly.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    18. Re: Do they have a choice? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      neural nets with backpropagation are as deterministic as any other algorithm; if the inputs are the same and no one has "improved" the numerical routines, you should get the same result every time you run the training algorithm. yes, you can add stochasticity to NN training to try to improve convergence, but this is true about many algorithms (whether their implementors realize it or not). running the same trained, frozen neural net on the same input should definitely always give you the same result, unless something weird is happening (as it sometimes does).

      i understand that in certain cases, we need provably correct results. my point is that "deterministic" is often (but not always) the wrong word, which i think you've illustrated.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    19. Re: Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 1

      I don't argue with anything you say, except to note that for the frozen NN you mention, I can't predict what output Y will result from input X, unless I already tested input X. It's not like a deterministic algorithm where output = input + 3 for all input in {-MAX_INT ... MAX_INT-3}. I need an exhaustive map of allowed inputs to expected outputs for the NN case. And product management never gives me one ;)

    20. Re:Do they have a choice? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Damn. I'm in trouble then.

    21. Re: Do they have a choice? by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that's not equally driven by geolocation? Or user search history?

      Try once searching for 'storage containers ' and see what happens to your results for the next few weeks.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    22. Re: Do they have a choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether I'm logged in or not, I get bail bonds in the places/businesses column on the right and a selection of links to investment bonds (forbes, news items, definition of bonds on Wikipedia) and a couple of news items about Barry Bonds and the Greek bailout.

    23. Re: Do they have a choice? by larwe · · Score: 1

      It's hard to tell. You could certainly be right - but, I have to ask, from an "optics" perspective - is that better, worse or meh? To me, it seems silly to entertain the idea of getting up in arms over the output of an algorithm for choosing which ads - that I'm blocking anyway - get shown to different groups of people. But I think the same racism/classism/*ism complaints would be raised in your geolocation scenario by people saying "We've been classified as ghetto residents", right? TL;DR - people self-identify as persecuted victims of large corporations. Which they are, but just not in the ways they're complaining about.

  29. Simple code by msobkow · · Score: 2

    IF haveOnlineGeneticProvile
    THEN PRINT "You are too dumb to be allowed on the internet."

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Simple code by halivar · · Score: 1

      According to this code, no one is too dumb to use the internet, considering that haveOnlineGeneticProvile will likely be undefined. :P

    2. Re:Simple code by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I noticed the typo as soon as it came up after hitting "Submit." I wondered what people would have to say about it. :D

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  30. Oh, the humanity! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words, the article author thinks that white people have something 'special' which they are depriving non-whites of, by not allowing them to associate with us.

    Otherwise, what exactly is the author saying? I thought all the races were the same, so why would it bother anybody if they weren't allowed to associate with a certain number of people of another race?

  31. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Disagree. Any speech or expression should be allowed, or your remarks
    themselves could be considered hate-speech. The Constitution's framers
    understood this fine point that speech that is not acted upon is nothing more
    than speech. Now if a person acts on their words, then yes, that's a problem

  32. Does DNA indicate race? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does DNA encode genes for race? I don't believe it does. Genes can reflect geography but that isn't close to the same as race.

  33. Complex question by DrYak · · Score: 5, Informative

    I thought the narrative was that race doesn't exist? That we're all the same race?

    Yup. We're all the same specie. "Race" is just an arbitrary label used to make convenient distinction among a group of individual that would other wise mate together : e.g.: breeds of dogs, etc.

    How then is is possible that one can determine so called race by examining the genetic profile of a person?
    Is it possible we were lied to and that race is indeed something that can be determined as a composition of genes and other genetic data?

    Short answer: Nope, it's not possible.

    Not so short answer: Well depend on what you define as "races" i.e.: you'll need to constantly redefine your arbitrary "race" label along as the set of gene that you try to use to map it. With that definition of "race" drifting farther and farther away from what biggots with an agenda would like it to be.

    Long answer: Remember that the only valid real barrier is *specie*. i.e.: between groups that *cannot* mate together. Inside that division, all individual can mate together. Humans are specially good at that "mating" (well, maybe except some basement dweller): because from our dawn we've been one of the most mobile specie, only bested by birds and some big aquatic animals. Humans do tend to get around a lot. As a result our specie is constantly under heavy genetic mixing.

    You can put some arbitrary labels (hey, let's put together individual that have darker skin tone in one big arbitrary bunch and call them niggers!)
    You can even find some labels that are actually convenient (statistically, people who typically come from Caucasian ancestry tend to have a bit higher probability for some disease and a bit lower for others).

    But if you got into the details, it starts to get muddy, you'll find that some people that you put in one of your arbitrary categories come from completely different lineage that split quite some time before, whereas other that you wanted to put out of that label actually share much more recent ancestry.
    (That white supremacist biggot over there ? He want to be put in a special category, aside "non whites" ? well on the surface it might look like some vague idea like correlating it with skin pigmentation. Except that among those non-white he'll probably put native american, but also african and north african. And his grand-dad happens to be from an italian immigrant family, and over the course of history southern european have had a lot of exchange with northern africa. See where I'm heading ?)

    So, in short what works well to separate breeds of dogs (which are bred in very controlled manners and you can somewhat keep something like a breed more or less pure) absolutely doesn't work with human that fuck around a lot.

    Same for the genetics.
    You'll be able to spot a few marker (let's say: a gene that helps control the base amount of melanin in the skin). But once you start using this, you'll notice that a lot of the "wrong people" end in the "wrong category".

    That specific list of markers you've assembled together, will consider some of the white supremacists as non white (because of the complex mixed ancestry most people have) while failing to cast aside one of their usual target.

    An idealist (like me) would dream that this would help some of the biggots to realise that we aren't that much different under the skin, we're so much mixed that there's a high probability that the biggot has a bit in their blood what their usual target is.

    Saddly, the reality will be that they'll be still endlessly tweaking around their genetic definition of "race", to constantly keep itt more or less matching their agenda. They'll never have a definite set of markers, they'll constantly need to patch them. And over time it will evolve to something that at the genetic level doesn't remotely look like what they pretend to be (by the time they manage to include all their friend and exclude all their targets, melanin-related gene

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Complex question by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      So, in short what works well to separate breeds of dogs (which are bred in very controlled manners and you can somewhat keep something like a breed more or less pure) absolutely doesn't work with human that fuck around a lot.

      "Race" in humans mostly identifies groups that spent a lot of time isolated from each other. You can absolutely identify genetic markers that are more concentrated in Africa than in Asia, for example. Even today, many people have generations of family or tribal history with very little change in geography and consequently very little genetic mixing. (not so much in the Americas, but they're a special case)

      In the past 1000 years or so, humans have broken a lot of the geographic and language barriers that used to separate us, with the not-so-surprising result that the inbred markers that represent "Italian," "Jewish," or "Japanese" become more widely distributed. "Race" is essentially a word for "extended family," and the visible phenotype little different from saying "you have your mother's eyes."

  34. LOL. What? You don't have a dozen personas? by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

    The only people bothered by this are the silly gits who have championed real names on the internet, the people who ignorantly believe they are only allowed to have one identity on the internet, and those foolish individuals who broadcast lives to the world.

    Online IDs are cheap. They don't cost anything and you don't need to find a shady character in a seedy print shop to score one.

  35. This is all wrong. There is no such API access. by philip456 · · Score: 1

    I don't understand what the poster is talking about. According to 23andMe information about access from their public APIs, "Each app will request that you log in to your 23andMe account and provide access. Each app will specify the data it is requesting and what use it will make of that data. If you don’t want to give a particular app access to your 23andMe data, simply deny access to that app." So, a website cannot just go and check any genetic data. Sounds like nonsense to me.

  36. Less effort to take a picture by brgj · · Score: 1

    Who cares how this is used? You can use an image hosting site to take a picture of yourself with your username much more easily and be vetted by administrators if they're so racist or sexist that they care about being "pure". I can't possibly imagine that a racist or sexist forum would be so swamped with new users that it would be worth it to automate the process at the cost of turning anyone away.

  37. It's a Good Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is a good thing and, no it isn't racist (at least not inherently). It *could* be used for racist policies, but what about websites with content targeting specific genetic conditions? Or a website about medical conditions shown to effect racial breakdowns differently. If I'm white and my health insurance company tailors content for diseases that impact white people more, I'd say it's a good thing if the site can automatically tell me about tests I should get.

    Or maybe if I'm black, a cosmetics company can tailor content for makeup meant for black skin.

    Even if someone uses it for "racism", why the crap do you care? If some website wants to exclude you because you are different, why would you want to hang out on that site anyway?

    1. Re:It's a Good Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if someone uses it for "racism", why the crap do you care? If some website wants to exclude you because you are different, why would you want to hang out on that site anyway?

      If someone puts a "Whites Only" sign in their place of business, why would a black person even want to patronize that business anyway? Because fuck those rednecks, that's why.

      Racial discrimination is illegal and immoral.

    2. Re:It's a Good Thing by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Because fuck those rednecks, that's why.

      Ironic isn't it. That simple statement there is the biggest part of the problem.

      Why can't people just accept that other people have different beliefs and stay away?

      Its one thing when a racist fuck forces something on you, its an entirely THE SAME THING when you want to force yourself on some racist fuck.

      And just for reference, it is not illegal to run your business in a racist manner, like 'whites only', its just REALLY difficult.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  38. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find your comment offensive and a micro-agression against me and my kind. This is hate speech. Please ban and delete immediately.

  39. Re:Racism? What about family/tribe only? by dave420 · · Score: 1

    We get it - you are scared and lashing out like a petulant child at anyone or anything which threatens to shed just a little more light on your insecurities.

  40. So this is how GATTACA starts. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Apparently someone forgot that it was a movie, not an instruction manual.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:So this is how GATTACA starts. by preaction · · Score: 1

      Isn't that the case with a lot of things? See also: Micheal Crichton.

  41. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently you don't understand the concept of 'fighting words'...

    his key point of 'acted upon' stands, and you're a moron. Go back to toking, pot head.

  42. Re: #1 by antdude · · Score: 1

    NBA, Comcast, Toyota, Obama, etc. care though. :P

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  43. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by dywolf · · Score: 1

    Depends on the speech, the person, and in what role their speech originates from.

    For ex:
    -money in politics: not free speech
    -private citizen being racist: free speech
    -government official being racist in his official capacity: not free speech

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  44. Does this mean I can fake being a hot lesbian anym by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gonna cut down on fb fakes, eh?

  45. REST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    23andMe even offers an API that allows you to share your genetic information with the REST of the world.

    it must be a RESTful API

  46. I'm missing something here by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Okay, people can register DNA samples with 123andme.com and be entered into their genetic database. When you log into a site that uses this API, racist or otherwise, what quick way is there to authenticate? Touch the tip of your tongue to a sensor? This could be a surefire way to identify an individual, so long as the sensor had a threshold test that would prevent people from using the edge of someone's water glass to log in.

  47. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    pretty obvious you have no damn idea what you are talking about

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

    congratulations your amongst the unwashed that have no idea what the constitution says.

  48. Lol Won't work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So? It is not physically checking anything. There is no actual physical check against your genetic code.

    Sincerely,

    A dog.

  49. OR by sabbede · · Score: 1

    a way to make sure users of a forum for pre-teen girls are at least female - not men looking to rape children.

    1. Re:OR by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Or, a way to make sure(ish) the forum you've set up to lure pre-teen girls for raping is attracting bona fide pre-teen girls and not 44 year old men pretending to be pre-teen girls.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:OR by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      In other words, as with everything else, it can be put to good or to bad use depending solely on the volitional human being actually employing it.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:OR by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Well obviously, but you're not supposed to just come out and say it!

    4. Re:OR by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What if it's a trans pre-teen girl?

      (yes, they do exist these days)

    5. Re:OR by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Aw hell, I forgot about them. Offer an alternative verification process? For .002% of the population, it's not worth worrying about too much.

  50. Re:Lock out all who haven't received Neaderthal ge by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    The hell did I just read?

  51. And also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It can automate "affirmative action" (reverse discrimination). So all of a sudden that code is good not bad now, right?

  52. Wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you telling me that all the SJWs who've been telling me for all these years that there is no genetic difference between races have been lying?

  53. Big business in Asia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of publicity will immediately point straight towards some Caucasian guy because, (statistically speaking (ignoring interjection: "wahhhh, we can haz inventive too") it's usually a caucasian guy that is creative enough to develop this (albeit sinister) technology..

    But, the reality is this would do really well in China, Japan and Korea (racism isn't taboo there) It's just an unapologetic way of life. In South Korea, it's so racist I could easily see the government itself using this application. Racism just doesn't figure there, it's not even politically incorrect. It's how it is.

    I remember a story not so long ago of a night club in New York that was Asians only .. in New York.. they'll have a field day with this technology.
    Sad times...

    Here come the barrage of whiners and race-card playing immigrants.The West is the most open of all regions and still we have to continue to drop our pants further and further. Liberal hipsters are probably already having orgasms about how they will use this story to victimise "minorities".

    And all the while, the facts remain the facts. The Chinese get to have the last laugh as usual, because this doesn't evenget to be a story over there.
    Period.

  54. There could be a legitimate use for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, this could be used for racist purposes.

    But, could it not also be used as a form of multi-factor authentication?

  55. Post-Natural Selection Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't this just the next step? Prepare for Cyber-Darwinian evolution.

  56. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    no such thing as "fighting words" on the internet. fighting words is speech that can lead to violence or harm in the near future. no violence ever came of arguing on the internet.

  57. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    also, just because something is fighting words doesn't mean its not allowed. it means that this category of speech can be regulated by the government because the government has a legitimite interest in keeping the peace. govt can regulate fighting words in ways that are directly tied to the government's interest and are the least obtrusive way to achieve that goal.

  58. Stargate Atlantis - Is that you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Ancients.. is US

  59. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by ultranova · · Score: 1

    I find your comment offensive and a micro-agression against me and my kind. This is hate speech.

    No, it's not. Whether you are offended or not is irrelevant. What makes something hate speech is that it attacks a group, making them more of an acceptable target for future attacks. Hate speech is, in other words, the propaganda campaign that precedes every war and atrocity in human history. That makes hate speech not just speech but also an action, the first blow that starts chipping off the preceived humanity of the target that protects them from violence.

    Is someone simply being a jerk? Then it's just speech, offensive or not. Is someone working themselves up into a rage in preparation for an attack? Then it's hate speech.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  60. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by dryeo · · Score: 1

    Note that the First Amendment only limited Congress, not the States or other smaller governments, or the courts. One question is that since it amended the Constitution, is Congress still allowed to limit speech with copyright (and other IP) laws?

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  61. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No, it's not.

    Yes, it is, and everything you wrote following that just proves me right. You are attacking the group of people who fully believe in the concept of free speech.

    Now I want to be clear that I do not want you to shut up. But, by your own logic, you believe that your own speech should be censored. And any further insistence that your speech is "ok" will, again by your own logic (not mine, yours), reveal yourself to just be a gigantic hypocrite.

  62. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I understand what "hate speech" is. I am merely pointing out that speech about forbidding hate speech is, itself, hate speech against those of us who fully believe in the concept of free speech. There is no way around it. Either you think hate speech should be banned and thus think your own speech should be banned, or you are accepting of all speech. There is no option where you think hate speech should be banned, but your own speech protected. Because your speech is hate speech.

  63. Not necessarily by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or it could be used to create social dating networks with genetic variation in mind.

    So you won't make babies with your long lost cousin or something.

    Why does everything have to revolve around racism?

  64. Outdated by benjfowler · · Score: 1

    These days, 'racism' is about culture, not "race" in the sense of skin pigmentation or skull shape. We know anyway, that "race", technically speaking, is meaningless in humans.

    It could be said that appearance (okay, 'race') is a really crappy proxy for culture, and people choose to discriminate and abuse others on the basis of culture.

    By way of example, hardworking, moral, aspirational Hindus and Sikhs are well-liked where I live. Yet, their genetically identical south-Asian radical Muslim kin are despised and shunned, and are dirt-poor as a result. Discriminating against somebody on the basis of a dubious socially-conditioned trait like adherence to conservative Islam (say) would be impossible to do through genetic data alone.

    As it were, the worst-behaved and most aggressive people I come across at street-level would be people who wear sleeveless puff jackets, have beards, shave the sides of their heads, drive BMWs, don't bathe, and show no respect to whites or women. Dress and behaviour -- not genetics.

  65. Incest by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    If the site is strict enough it will just be mental incest on that site.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  66. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Awww, you poor wittle cracker. What's wrong? Don't you like the taste of your own medicine whitey? Whitey has had all the privileges from enslaving others, most notably from the African people. Your white privilege allowed you to stifle real freedom of speech for so long with African-Americans. The constitution does not allow hate speech but since3 you fucktarded crackers do how about this. Due to white privilege all whites are racist by default and the only good racist is a dead one. The only way to get rid of your status of a fucking racist is for whitey to give everything they own to the African American community and live in slave wage jobs permanently. Oh, you don't want to do that? Well then by your logic KILL WHITEY!!!

  67. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't know how many voices are in his head. Maybe it is a group you're attacking?!

  68. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that any law enacted by a state government needs to be constitutional. Weren't you paying attention to all the "marriage-equality" bullshit in the U.S. over the past 10 years?

    Theoretically, the courts cannot legislate anything, so that's a red herring.

    I think what you were trying to say was that the 1st Amendment only prohibits the government from restricting free speech and free association. Other non-governmental entities (e.g online forum moderators) can censor to their hearts' content.

  69. This is mostly correct by celtic_hackr · · Score: 1

    While Dr. Yak is largely correct on the science, and the fact that a lot of people would be surprised to find certain genetic details about themselves, Dr Yak also completely wrong.

    It is completely possible to use genetic details to classify people into groups. There are certainly overlapping people, like Native-American mixed with African, and Northern European. There are lots of people signing up to find out what their "origins" are. There are definite differences between African, Asian, Polynesian, Scandinavian, Jewish, Middle-Eastern, Southern Europeans, and so on. It does not rise to the level of races within the species. Even though: Europeans are largely Homo Sapien/Neanderthal cross-bred, Southern Asiatics are largely Homo Sapien/Denisovian cross-bred, and Africans are largely Homo Sapien/Other ancient hominid cross-bred. There is some mixing of these three, making probably a whole spectrum. Again, though the homogeneity of the human species is so complete we have only one race.

    Having only one race doesn't mean there are no scientifically determinate variations. It just means, you can't always tell by looking at someone, what those variations are. I think that is really what Dr. Yak is meaning. These characteristics can be used to include or exclude certain people from some exclusive club. But those doing so, would do well to test themselves first, to make sure they fit in the category they think they do.

  70. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

    Yes, it is, and everything you wrote following that just proves me right.

    Umm.... everything YOU just wrote proves you to be yet another fucking AC idiot who doesn't have the balls to own up to his free speech.

    Fighting Words have long been prohibited. Dressing up your fighting words in fig leaves does not change the underlying intent. Blowing dog whistles still brings the dogs. Implied calls to action ("XXX people are dogs and should be put down like dogs!!!") are still calls to action.

    You are attacking the group of people who fully believe in the concept of free speech.

    Help! You are oppressing me by not allowing me to attack you!

    --
    This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
  71. Re: but hate speech can be forbidden by rezme · · Score: 1

    The concern trolling is strong with this one...

  72. or for good, rathr than Evvvvvilll by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    Look at the bright side. This technology could also be used to produce an even racial balance among the participants at a website.

    If a disproportionately large number of people of a racial group have logged in, it will not allow any more of that group until the population is more appropriately diverse.

    Alakazam! A more diverse Internet.

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.